2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Here is my next mock draft/offseason 

    Trades:
    #17 and #60 to Was for #10
    #28 to SD for #50 and #61
    #33 to Ari for #38 and #69
    #61 to Buf (or some other crappy team) for 2012 1st rounder and #100
    #92 to Oak for 2012 2nd rounder and #148

    FA's (once we have it)
    Re-sign Light, but Mankins will probably walk
    RB Ricky Williams
    WR Malcolm Floyd
    DE/OLB Manny Lawson
    CB Eric Wright

    Draft:
    #10 Robert Quinn-DE/OLB-North Carolina
    #38 Danny Watkins-OL-Baylor
    #50 Marvin Austin-DL-North Carolina
    #69 James Carpenter-OT-Alabama
    #74 Shane Vereen-HB-California
    #100 Greg Roemus-DE/OLB-Pittsburgh
    #125 Greg Salas-WR-Hawaii
    #148 Greg McElroy-QB-Alabama
    #159 Buster Skrine-CB-UT-Chatt
    #193 Mark Herzlich-ILB/OLB-Boston College
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Obviously we need to be built to win the AFC East first and foremost then to win in the AFC.  How did we do last year in that regard?

    Offensively we played 8 of the top 10 defensive teams, #1 SD, #2 PIT, #3 NYJ (3X), #5 GB, #6 MIA (2X), #8 MIN, #9 CHI and #10 BAL.  That's 11 of our 17 games against top 10 defenses.  We torched some of these teams but two of our three losses also came from this group.  Offensively we finished #8 which isn't bad considering the tough defenses we faced.

    Defensively we faced just 3 of the top 10 offensive teams; #1 SD, #4 IND and #9 GB and we beat them all although GB didn't have Rodgers.  So we played just 3 of our 16 games against top offenses.  Our defense also went up against some of the weakest offenses; #30 CHI, #29 CLE, #25 BUF (2X), #23 MIN, #21 MIA (2X) #20 CIN.  That's half of our regular season games against #20 or lower rated offenses.  Our defense still ranked 25th even though half of games we played were against pig offenses.

    Who do we face in 2011?

    Team2010 Off Rank2010 Def Rank
    Home
    Buffalo2524
    Miami216
    NY Jets113
    Kansas City1214
    San Diego11
    Indianapolis420
    Dallas723
    NY Giants57
    Patriots825
    Away
    Buffalo2524
    Miami216
    NY Jets113
    Denver1332
    Oakland1011
    Pittsburgh142
    Philadelphia212
    Washington1831


    11 of our 16 games against top 15 offenses, 10 of 16 against top half defenses.  This is having me rethink the priority we need to place on drafting defense.  Obviously we have to address the OL too because we won't be ranked 8th next year if we don't replace Mankins and Light.

    If I look at Bodden and Warren coming back then look at the strength of each unit DL, LB, DB I conclude that LB is our worst unit.  Other than Mayo, no studs there.  Spikes is a run stuffer only and both starting OLBs are slow and not able pass rushers. 

    So again, we have to be built to win in the East first.  For now this means we have to beat Sanchez, Fitzpatrick and Henne.  This shouldn't be that hard.  Fitzpatrick was the 22nd rated passer, Henne the 26th, and Sanchez the 27th.  So who can we draft that will get pressure on these guys while still getting a top OT and OG?  Again, we need to sort this out while staying in line with BB's draft strategy.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Here is my next mock draft/offseason  Trades: #17 and #60 to Was for #10 #28 to SD for #50 and #61 #33 to Ari for #38 and #69 #61 to Buf (or some other crappy team) for 2012 1st rounder and #100 #92 to Oak for 2012 2nd rounder and #148 FA's (once we have it) Re-sign Light, but Mankins will probably walk RB Ricky Williams WR Malcolm Floyd DE/OLB Manny Lawson CB Eric Wright Draft: #10 Robert Quinn-DE/OLB-North Carolina #38 Danny Watkins-OL-Baylor #50 Marvin Austin-DL-North Carolina #69 James Carpenter-OT-Alabama #74 Shane Vereen-HB-California #100 Greg Roemus-DE/OLB-Pittsburgh #125 Greg Salas-WR-Hawaii #148 Greg McElroy-QB-Alabama #159 Buster Skrine-CB-UT-Chatt #193 Mark Herzlich-ILB/OLB-Boston College
    Posted by titletownfan[/QUOTE]
    Titletown,

    I like it a lot but moving up to #10 goes against BB's trends.  Besides, I think Kerrigan is a safer pick and way more of a BB type player and he can be had at 17 or even a little later.  I love the Austin pick big time.  It comes at a more value spot and gives us a heck of a stud on passing downs on the DL.  I don't think Austin lasts to 50 any more.  He's been shooting up boards and Mayock thinks he can slip into the back of the 1st.  I don't think he goes that high given the depth of talent at 43 DT.  I love that you address OG and OT fairly early but not too high in keeping with BB's trends.  Hmmm.  Has me thinking...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In looking at the board again and doing my own internal mock, I think it far more likely that the top 5 OTs will be gone by 28 than I do the top remaining DE/OLBs.  I can see it possible that several, if not all, of the following are there at 28; Kerrigan, Houston, Reed and Ayers.  If we take this out further, I could see at least one being there at 33 assuming a QB needy team (ARI) perhaps comes up to 28 ahead of BUF.  Therefore, I think we should do this.

    17.  Gabe Carimi
    28.  Trade back to highest bidder, ARI, SD whatever.
    33.  Take the best OLB left out of Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Ayers
    60.  Wisniewski, Schilling or Hudson

    If 28 is traded to ARI.

    38.  Marvin Austin

    this addresses OT, OG, OLB and DL right off the bat.  We would get a 2nd or 3rd in 2012 for the ten spot move back.  I'm not sure if Austin is there at 38 as I haven't mocked past 30 yet.  I do see PIT at 31 in jail.  There will be nothing to help them at value, Watkins likely goes to CHI the way this is shaping up.  There will be no OTs, OG or CBs worthy of pick 31.  PIT will have to go Heyward as DE is their 4th need.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]1. Deaderick (7th round) 2. Pryor (6th round) 3. Wilfork (1st round) 4. Love (UDFA) 5. TWarren (1st round) 6. Cohen  (7th round) 7. Stroud (1st round) 8. MWright (UDFA) Lifer, you left out Brace (2nd round).   So you have 3 former 1st round picks and a 2nd rounder plus Wright who has been a starter and solid back-up with us for years and I believe lead the team in sacks last year in limited action. I didn't even include Cohen in my 8 because I don't think he sticks.  Deaderick is a guy who is nearly as athletic as Suh.  He fell to the 7th round because of some character issues.  He was shot before his senior year and then took a back seat to Marcel Dareus who was emerging at this time.  Deaderick only did the 40 at the Combine but again, he compares well to all of the top DT taken last year.  Suh 6-4, 307, 5.03 Deaderick 6-4, 314, 5.08 D. Williams 6-2, 327, 5.19 Odrick 6-5, 304, 5.03 Price 6-1, 303, 5.12 L. Joseph 6-5, 328, 5.09 Deaderick, being a Nick Saban kid, certainly helped BB take a chance on him in the 7th.  But we saw him in the dog house late last year allegedly for being late to team meetings.  Still, I would not give up him.  Your point is well taken in that other than Wilfork, there isn't a true stud.  Wright when healthy generates a good pass rush.  Warren if he returns healthy brings experience and some stability to the left side.  Watt and Jordan are currently a little undersized for 34 DE.  I think both will add some weight and get at or over 300 within a year but I don't think either would crack the starting line up from day 1, although I think Watt has a chance.  For me personally, I'd take either at 17 if there.  I don't like Wilkerson.  I like Taylor but feel BB doesn't have much of a stomach for players with character issues.  This leaves Heyward at 28.  Heyward has a great character and when healthy can be disruptive.  ButI don't think BB is thinking DL this year.  I just think he's looking at 8 guys signed through or past 2012 who ranked 12th against the run last year and as a group are young and improving.  By DT, do you mean a 43 DT or a 34 NT?  Because there are some solid options at 43 DT that we could get for sub packages.  Marvin Austin (who has a checkered past but has been really forthcoming and doing everything right since) could be a dominant player in the nickel.  He might be had in the low 30s.  Since we're in our sub packages 57% of the time, why not consider a 43 type who can get after the QB? I think a lot of us are stuck on the idea of getting a pure 34 DE like Seymour, long and athletic who can kick inside on passing downs.  I think this is our weakness.  When in a 34, teams realize the front 3 can't get pressure so they pass on 1st down.  We really shouldn't be in a 34 without the right personnel.  If our front 3 can't get pressure and we have no play makers at OLB, running a 34 will not work regardless of how good the secondary is.  So yea, I'd love to get a Watt and a Kerrigan to try to get that attacking front 7 but I see the need at OL reaching a crises point.  What do we do if Mankins holds out and we don't draft a plug and play OG?  If we lose Light and Mankins holds out and we don't address OL we could be starting, left to right with LeVoir and Orhnberger behind them: Vollmer, Connolly, Koppen, Wendell, Kaczur YIKES!!  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sorry about Brace. I guess it's easy to forget him sometimes.

    You highlighted my point. we are so focused on 3-4 DE, what about 4-3 DT? I would almost rather add a guy like Austin in the top/mid second, than perhaps take a chance at 17 or trade up to get a 3-4 DE that may have never played that position in college. My draft strategy is to sit tight at 17, possibly trade dwn, but don't sell the farm to go up. I'd be equally as happy with Heyward at 28/33 because he will paly both 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE/DT.

    I'm not looking to retool the entire DL, just add a DT or 2 that can penetrate and wreak some havoc crushing the pocket inside. Austin fits that bill, as perhaps Jenkins. Wouldn't be bad adding both honestly.

    Faucet..I'm still with you on the OL, I would like a T early and a G late 2nd or with 74, plus one in teh 4th maybe. IF we walk out something like Carimi - Hudson/Moffitt/name your G, I'd be happy. Makes we wonder however if we don't resign Light and let Kaczur walk, do we need 2 OT's? What about Carimi and Barksdale? 1 early, 1 mid.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Looks like I stand corrected on BB never drafting a sub-300 pound DL before Rd 4 will in NE, according to NFLDraftScout, he was 299 at the combine as well as his pro-day.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Looks like I stand corrected on BB never drafting a sub-300 pound DL before Rd 4 will in NE, according to NFLDraftScout, he was 299 at the combine as well as his pro-day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    who Mb?  close enough anyway.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : who Mb?  close enough anyway.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Seymour
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Obviously we need to be built to win the AFC East first and foremost then to win in the AFC.  How did we do last year in that regard? Offensively  we played  8 of the top 10 defensive teams , #1 SD, #2 PIT, #3 NYJ (3X), #5 GB, #6 MIA (2X), #8 MIN, #9 CHI and #10 BAL.  That's 11 of our 17 games against top 10 defenses.  We torched some of these teams but two of our three losses also came from this group.  Offensively we finished #8 which isn't bad considering the tough defenses we faced. Defensively we faced just 3 of the top 10 offensive teams ; #1 SD, #4 IND and #9 GB and we beat them all although GB didn't have Rodgers.  So we played just 3 of our 16 games against top offenses.  Our defense also went up against some of the weakest offenses; #30 CHI, #29 CLE, #25 BUF (2X), #23 MIN, #21 MIA (2X) #20 CIN.  That's half of our regular season games against #20 or lower rated offenses.  Our defense still ranked 25th even though half of games we played were against pig offenses. Who do we face in 2011? Team 2010 Off Rank 2010 Def Rank Home Buffalo 25 24 Miami 21 6 NY Jets 11 3 Kansas City 12 14 San Diego 1 1 Indianapolis 4 20 Dallas 7 23 NY Giants 5 7 Patriots 8 25 Away Buffalo 25 24 Miami 21 6 NY Jets 11 3 Denver 13 32 Oakland 10 11 Pittsburgh 14 2 Philadelphia 2 12 Washington 18 31 11 of our 16 games against top 15 offenses, 10 of 16 against top half defenses.  This is having me rethink the priority we need to place on drafting defense.  Obviously we have to address the OL too because we won't be ranked 8th next year if we don't replace Mankins and Light. If I look at Bodden and Warren coming back then look at the strength of each unit DL, LB, DB I conclude that LB is our worst unit.  Other than Mayo, no studs there.  Spikes is a run stuffer only and both starting OLBs are slow and not able pass rushers.  So again, we have to be built to win in the East first.  For now this means we have to beat Sanchez, Fitzpatrick and Henne.  This shouldn't be that hard.  Fitzpatrick was the 22nd rated passer, Henne the 26th, and Sanchez the 27th.  So who can we draft that will get pressure on these guys while still getting a top OT and OG?  Again, we need to sort this out while staying in line with BB's draft strategy.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    Ugghh I really dislike the total defense stat.

    It don't matter if you give up a million yards. What matters is points/per game.

    The score determines who wins and loses not how much you go up and down the field between the goal lines.

    In 2001 NE won the superbowl and were ranked 21st in total defense(yards).

    2010 NE was 25th. They've got work to do but its not all that significant. They need to get better in the red zone, beside the whole pass rush thing.

    2001 they were 6th fewest in points allowed per game at 17.

    2010 they were 8th fewest in points allowed per game at 19.6.

    They have to get back at or under, preferably, that magic 17 number.

    Every year that NE has won or been in the superbowl the defense has allowed a 17 or fewer points per game average, REGARDLESS of the total defense rankings or numbers.

    Sometimes those two numbers have gone hand-in-hand but other times not so much.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    More results of that LIVE mock.


    17) Cam Jordan
    28) Ben Ijalana
    33) Mark Ingram
    60) Jabaal Sheard
    74) Chimdi Chekwa
    92) Dontay Moch
    98) Tyler Sash (NE gave up their 5th to move up for Sash)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    oh man, thats funny! actually i think eric moore is equal in ability to Demarcus ware so lets ignore tthe LB position too. but seriously, does anyone really think that BB wont look to address the RDE position early in this draft? i mean seriously...the d-line is a total mess, and BB was clear as day about that by bringing in street free agents, benching ron bust brace for most of the preseason and a lot of the season, and inserting deaderick (second coming of suh) right after a suspension because there was literally no one else to play. and then signing a washed up stroud before the lockout. there is one player who is locked in to the D-line and thats wilfork. BB has used 1st and 2nd round picks constantly to stock the d-line, expect the trend to continue.

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE] Deaderick is a guy who is nearly as athletic as Suh.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    thats just not how this defense works. the d-linemen are there to occupy and stand up the offensive lineman so the linebackers are free to make plays. thats just the way it is. they need to be big enough to clog running lanes and tall enough to block the QB's vision and knock down some passes. penetrating is strictly for passing downs. thats how this defense operates and those are the players we look for in the first few rounds. the end. 

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE] I'm not looking to retool the entire DL, just add a DT or 2 that can penetrate and wreak some havoc crushing the pocket inside. 
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    i agree on austin. i actually wouldnt be shocked to see him picked above bowers.

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]I  I don't think Austin lasts to 50 any more.  He's been shooting up boards and Mayock thinks he can slip into the back of the 1st.  I don't think he goes that high given the depth of talent at 43 DT.  I love that you address OG and OT fairly early but not too high in keeping with BB's trends.  Hmmm.  Has me thinking...
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Wow, I didn't know Woody was that fast.  Where did you get those times?  I didn't think he was invited to the Combine.  I knew he was a quick, darty type but didn't realize he was a sub 4.40 guy.  The Pats do like speed at certain positions.  They've drafted some speedy corners and LBs lately.  Guyton and Mayo were #1 and #3 at their Combine positionally.  McCourty and Butler were right up there in their draft class too.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    He suffered the Wes Welker fate.

    People wrote and probably still write him off. Pro Scouts mentality strikes again.

    White guy at a skill position. Short. Played lower division. Etc.



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sydpat. Show sydpat's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet and Mbeau

    Don't know too much like you guys but Wes Bunting reckons Pats will take Ryan Williams as he bests suits their style rather than LeShoure or Ingram. Reckons Ingram is the worst blocker and catcher of the three.


    Also says Pats will take Watkins maybe at 28 as he will be gone soon after.
     
    Carimi gets a good wrap and says his bravado attitude on the Pats Oline is not a worry as he will get the right locker room guidance.


      Carimi 17

      Watkins 28

      Williams 33


    Or BB gets the same players moving around the board.


    Who would you get next .....OLB OR DE ....Which one?



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]1. Deaderick (7th round) 2. Pryor (6th round) 3. Wilfork (1st round) 4. Love (UDFA) 5. TWarren (1st round) 6. Cohen  (7th round) 7. Stroud (1st round) 8. MWright (UDFA) Lifer, you left out Brace (2nd round).   So you have 3 former 1st round picks and a 2nd rounder plus Wright who has been a starter and solid back-up with us for years and I believe lead the team in sacks last year in limited action. I didn't even include Cohen in my 8 because I don't think he sticks.  Deaderick is a guy who is nearly as athletic as Suh.  He fell to the 7th round because of some character issues.  He was shot before his senior year and then took a back seat to Marcel Dareus who was emerging at this time.  Deaderick only did the 40 at the Combine but again, he compares well to all of the top DT taken last year.  Suh 6-4, 307, 5.03 Deaderick 6-4, 314, 5.08 D. Williams 6-2, 327, 5.19 Odrick 6-5, 304, 5.03 Price 6-1, 303, 5.12 L. Joseph 6-5, 328, 5.09 Deaderick, being a Nick Saban kid, certainly helped BB take a chance on him in the 7th.  But we saw him in the dog house late last year allegedly for being late to team meetings.  Still, I would not give up him.  Your point is well taken in that other than Wilfork, there isn't a true stud.  Wright when healthy generates a good pass rush.  Warren if he returns healthy brings experience and some stability to the left side.  Watt and Jordan are currently a little undersized for 34 DE.  I think both will add some weight and get at or over 300 within a year but I don't think either would crack the starting line up from day 1, although I think Watt has a chance.  For me personally, I'd take either at 17 if there.  I don't like Wilkerson.  I like Taylor but feel BB doesn't have much of a stomach for players with character issues.  This leaves Heyward at 28.  Heyward has a great character and when healthy can be disruptive.  ButI don't think BB is thinking DL this year.  I just think he's looking at 8 guys signed through or past 2012 who ranked 12th against the run last year and as a group are young and improving.  By DT, do you mean a 43 DT or a 34 NT?  Because there are some solid options at 43 DT that we could get for sub packages.  Marvin Austin (who has a checkered past but has been really forthcoming and doing everything right since) could be a dominant player in the nickel.  He might be had in the low 30s.  Since we're in our sub packages 57% of the time, why not consider a 43 type who can get after the QB? I think a lot of us are stuck on the idea of getting a pure 34 DE like Seymour, long and athletic who can kick inside on passing downs.  I think this is our weakness.  When in a 34, teams realize the front 3 can't get pressure so they pass on 1st down.  We really shouldn't be in a 34 without the right personnel.  If our front 3 can't get pressure and we have no play makers at OLB, running a 34 will not work regardless of how good the secondary is.  So yea, I'd love to get a Watt and a Kerrigan to try to get that attacking front 7 but I see the need at OL reaching a crises point.  What do we do if Mankins holds out and we don't draft a plug and play OG?  If we lose Light and Mankins holds out and we don't address OL we could be starting, left to right with LeVoir and Orhnberger behind them: Vollmer, Connolly, Koppen, Wendell, Kaczur YIKES!!  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    2 great points:

    "Seymour, long and athletic who can kick inside on passing downs.  I think this is our weakness.  When in a 34, teams realize the front 3 can't get pressure so they pass on 1st down.  We really shouldn't be in a 34 without the right personnel.  If our front 3 can't get pressure and we have no play makers at OLB, running a 34 will not work regardless of how good the secondary is."


    just like on offense. too predictable.


    "So yea, I'd love to get a Watt and a Kerrigan to try to get that attacking front 7 but I see the need at OL reaching a crises point.  What do we do if Mankins holds out and we don't draft a plug and play OG?  If we lose Light and Mankins holds out and we don't address OL we could be starting, left to right with LeVoir and Orhnberger behind them"


    what we need is
    kraft off his butt and make it right with mankins (little chance). if one doesnt eat crow, could be  a holdout. but only the mgt knows what they have in mind re mankins and light.

    even if we go for some talented lineman on offense, we have 9 picks and next years picks (that we can trade). we have the ability to get it done this year and try for 2 in 3, instead of waiting a year or 2 and having only 2 yrs or only one with brady at his best and able to deliver to the promised land.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Ugghh I really dislike the total defense stat. It don't matter if you give up a million yards. What matters is points/per game. The score determines who wins and loses not how much you go up and down the field between the goal lines. In 2001 NE won the superbowl and were ranked 21st in total defense(yards). 2010 NE was 25th. They've got work to do but its not all that significant. They need to get better in the red zone, beside the whole pass rush thing. 2001 they were 6th fewest in points allowed per game at 17. 2010 they were 8th fewest in points allowed per game at 19.6. They have to get back at or under, preferably, that magic 17 number. Every year that NE has won or been in the superbowl the defense has allowed a 17 or fewer points per game average, REGARDLESS of the total defense rankings or numbers. Sometimes those two numbers have gone hand-in-hand but other times not so much.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    low, did you read my post about "the conservative defense, let them have a long drive as long as they dont score, leaving us the need to score immediately, leaving us no margin of error" post? bottom line, its a very risky way to win games (hope they make a mistake versus playing a good defense with talented players). mada a little sense when we didnt have the players. now there isnoexcuse though, with all the picks in our hands.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    faucet and all,
    on von miler:
    mcCrystal-draft ace

    Final Thoughts: Von Miller

    In the last few weeks leading up to the draft I’ll be posting a series of “final thoughts” on some of the top prospects in this year’s class. Up first: Von Miller

    I’ll start off by saying I really like Miller. He’s a solid 1st-round pick and has a ton of potential as a pass rusher. However, I don’t think he is quite worthy of a top-five pick, which is where he is all but certain to go in the draft.

    Miller has drawn comparisons to Green Bay’s Clay Matthews, and since this is a copy-cat league everyone wants to get the next great pass rushing 3-4 linebacker.

    While Miller and Matthews have some similarities, I’m not buying the comparison. What makes Matthews great is his motor and his ability to fight through junk. He is constantly on the move and offensive linemen never know where he’s going next. In essence he excels because he’s always one step ahead of the offensive line – he keeps them guessing. This is essential to his production because he doesn’t have elite size or strength and as a result, when an offensive linemen does get his hands on him in a good position he is actually pretty easy to block.

    Miller is a top-5 lock, but is he overrated?

    Miller lacks the elite change-of-direction quickness that makes Matthews such a great playmaker. Miller’s speed and athleticism is impressive, but I don’t see him making the same types of plays that Matthews does. Miller’s strength is as a pure pass rusher. He pins his ears back and goes full speed ahead.

    At times, Miller will blow past offensive tackles and should have no problem averaging seven to 10 sacks per season in the NFL. But that’s just seven to 10 plays out of a few hundered for which he’ll be on the field. What will he do the other 97% of the time?

    One of the concerns with Miller’s style of play is that it becomes easy to run at him. He will get caught out of position frequently as he simply over-runs the play.

    Another issue with Miller’s game is that he lacks the ability to fight through the junk that Matthews does so consistently. Matthews has a knack for emerging from a mess at the line of scrimmage to make a play. Miller lacks the instincts, ability to read the play and the great foot quickness to have the same type of success in these situations.

    Think of it like this, how often do you see Matthews make plays after the offensive play has broken down? He’s a threat throughout the duration of a play. Miller on the other hand is an explosive player who makes his impact plays immediately off the snap. As an offensive linemen if you can get your hands into his body, or even just deliver a good punch to knock him off his path, you’re set. You’ve knocked him out of position and, more often than not, removed him from the play.

    I think the comparison to Matthews really stems from the fact that, like Matthews, Miller lines up at various spots on the field throughout the game. This gives off the impression that he’s making plays all over the place, but in reality, it’s simply a result of where he lines up. This has very little to do with Miller himself, and more to do with the creativity of Texas A&M’s coaching staff.

    Another concern with Miller, albeit a minor one, is the fact that he hasn’t really been tested against elite competition. Yes, he played in the Big 12 but how many future NFL starters did he face? The Big 12 is a great conference, but when evaluating players I’m more concerned with who he faced at specific positions – in Miller’s case, offensive tackles.

    Who was the best offensive tackle Miller faced this year? That’s a tough call. He probably didn’t face anyone who projects as a future 1st-round pick. As I said, it’s a minor concern, but when watching film you have to factor in who he’s matched up against.

    Despite having these concerns, I do like Miller. There are flaws in his game but he is an elite athlete and he seems like a smart guy. Give him a few years with a great coaching staff and he could eliminate some of these concerns altogether. I simply feel as though he has a few glaring holes in his game which, at least initially, will make him a liability in certain situations.

    All that said, Miller should be an early favorite for defensive rookie of the year. Much like Ndamukong Suh this past season, all anyone really notices are sack totals and big hits – even if that only accounts for 3 to 5 percent of your total plays. Like Suh was in 2010, Miller will be a liability against the run, and also in coverage, but he’ll impress fans with his ability to get to the quarterback and immediately become a star.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In looking at the board again and doing my own internal mock, I think it far more likely that the top 5 OTs will be gone by 28 than I do the top remaining DE/OLBs.  I can see it possible that several, if not all, of the following are there at 28; Kerrigan, Houston, Reed and Ayers.  If we take this out further, I could see at least one being there at 33 assuming a QB needy team (ARI) perhaps comes up to 28 ahead of BUF.  Therefore, I think we should do this. 17.  Gabe Carimi 28.  Trade back to highest bidder, ARI, SD whatever. 33.  Take the best OLB left out of Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Ayers 60.  Wisniewski, Schilling or Hudson If 28 is traded to ARI. 38.  Marvin Austin this addresses OT, OG, OLB and DL right off the bat.  We would get a 2nd or 3rd in 2012 for the ten spot move back.  I'm not sure if Austin is there at 38 as I haven't mocked past 30 yet.  I do see PIT at 31 in jail.  There will be nothing to help them at value, Watkins likely goes to CHI the way this is shaping up.  There will be no OTs, OG or CBs worthy of pick 31.  PIT will have to go Heyward as DE is their 4th need.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    not bad,
    got a feel for who may end up being best for our team?
    (re Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Ayers)
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    reading through several of the top rated mocks the past 5 years (the most players matched ot team and most players picked right in the first round,

    i'm most frequently seeing watt or jordan picked at 17 (watt slightly more often), o line or olb at 28; and the opposite position at 33.

    ie if no trades (yeah right! but maybe), de, then olb and o line (the latter 2 in various order).

    the olb most frequently seen to us is houston, some say ayers.

    and o line i'm seeing is watkins and hudson.


    after these 3, a lot of variation.

    most commonly,
    then rb
    followed by more o line

    but some too have cb's and wr's sometimes mixing in after first 3 picks
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    IWhat makes you think any team would trade a 2012 1st round pick for pick # n Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Here is my next mock draft/offseason  Trades: #17 and #60 to Was for #10 #28 to SD for #50 and #61 #33 to Ari for #38 and #69 #61 to Buf (or some other crappy team) for 2012 1st rounder and #100 #92 to Oak for 2012 2nd rounder and #148 FA's (once we have it) Re-sign Light, but Mankins will probably walk RB Ricky Williams WR Malcolm Floyd DE/OLB Manny Lawson CB Eric Wright Draft: #10 Robert Quinn-DE/OLB-North Carolina #38 Danny Watkins-OL-Baylor #50 Marvin Austin-DL-North Carolina #69 James Carpenter-OT-Alabama #74 Shane Vereen-HB-California #100 Greg Roemus-DE/OLB-Pittsburgh #125 Greg Salas-WR-Hawaii #148 Greg McElroy-QB-Alabama #159 Buster Skrine-CB-UT-Chatt #193 Mark Herzlich-ILB/OLB-Boston College
    Posted by titletownfan[/QUOTE]

    What makes you think ANY TEAM would trade a 2012 1st round pick for pick # 61 (very bottom of the 2nd round and basically a 3rd rounder)????? Try to keep your fantasy trades realistic!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Seymour
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Apparently "he" is short for Seymour, ha.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : low, did you read my post about "the conservative defense, let them have a long drive as long as they dont score, leaving us the need to score immediately, leaving us no margin of error" post? bottom line, its a very risky way to win games (hope they make a mistake versus playing a good defense with talented players). mada a little sense when we didnt have the players. now there isnoexcuse though, with all the picks in our hands.
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]


    This is not new. This is the brand of football BB plays.

    People forgot who the Patriots were since 2007.

    Every game played close to the vest. Every game a bit ugly and nasty. Stay close and give your team a chance to win at the end . Try to play with a lead.

    The Patriots continue to win and have retooled on the fly without going in the toilet.

    I am not about to question BB's defensive system.

    That same defensive system let up 17 points in 2007 superbowl. You get that from a defense in the post season your team should have every chance to win.

    The past few seasons the D has been weaker but they have been rebuilding on the fly.

    I don't see the system being the problem.

    The system is based on players playing a role, he's finding new players for those roles.

    If they have a solid draft and hit a few home runs on both sides of the ball they will be looking very strong moving forward.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Ugghh I really dislike the total defense stat. It don't matter if you give up a million yards. What matters is points/per game. The score determines who wins and loses not how much you go up and down the field between the goal lines. In 2001 NE won the superbowl and were ranked 21st in total defense(yards). 2010 NE was 25th. They've got work to do but its not all that significant. They need to get better in the red zone, beside the whole pass rush thing. 2001 they were 6th fewest in points allowed per game at 17. 2010 they were 8th fewest in points allowed per game at 19.6. They have to get back at or under, preferably, that magic 17 number. Every year that NE has won or been in the superbowl the defense has allowed a 17 or fewer points per game average, REGARDLESS of the total defense rankings or numbers. Sometimes those two numbers have gone hand-in-hand but other times not so much.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]
    Low,

    Thanks for reminding us of that "bend, don't break" defensive philosophy of the Pats.  You're right BB doesn't care about how many yards he gives up, just about how many points.  Still, giving up nearly 20 points a game was bad considering the weak offenses we faced last year, 8 of the bottom 13.  We will have to do better this year since we are going up against 9 of the top 12 offenses from last year.  Of course every year is different. 

    25th in yards allowed is still an ugly stat.  It means the other team is moving the chains keeping our D on the field while Brady sits.  We lost the time of possession game last year too and I'm not so sure it was because we were scoring so fast.  I think our D was on the field for too many long drives.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Apparently "he" is short for Seymour, ha.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    Was that not what you were talking about? I wasn't actually following along.

    I saw something about BB actually drafting a player under 300 pounds before round 4. I knew Seymour  was 299 coming out.

    Sorry if I misunderstood the thread.
     

Share