2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Wow, I didn't know Woody was that fast.  Where did you get those times?  I didn't think he was invited to the Combine.  I knew he was a quick, darty type but didn't realize he was a sub 4.40 guy.  The Pats do like speed at certain positions.  They've drafted some speedy corners and LBs lately.  Guyton and Mayo were #1 and #3 at their Combine positionally.  McCourty and Butler were right up there in their draft class too.
    Posted by Faucetman

    He suffered the Wes Welker fate.

    People wrote and probably still write him off. Pro Scouts mentality strikes again.

    White guy at a skill position. Short. Played lower division. Etc.



     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet and Mbeau

    Don't know too much like you guys but Wes Bunting reckons Pats will take Ryan Williams as he bests suits their style rather than LeShoure or Ingram. Reckons Ingram is the worst blocker and catcher of the three.


    Also says Pats will take Watkins maybe at 28 as he will be gone soon after.
     
    Carimi gets a good wrap and says his bravado attitude on the Pats Oline is not a worry as he will get the right locker room guidance.


      Carimi 17

      Watkins 28

      Williams 33


    Or BB gets the same players moving around the board.


    Who would you get next .....OLB OR DE ....Which one?



     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    1. Deaderick (7th round) 2. Pryor (6th round) 3. Wilfork (1st round) 4. Love (UDFA) 5. TWarren (1st round) 6. Cohen  (7th round) 7. Stroud (1st round) 8. MWright (UDFA) Lifer, you left out Brace (2nd round).   So you have 3 former 1st round picks and a 2nd rounder plus Wright who has been a starter and solid back-up with us for years and I believe lead the team in sacks last year in limited action. I didn't even include Cohen in my 8 because I don't think he sticks.  Deaderick is a guy who is nearly as athletic as Suh.  He fell to the 7th round because of some character issues.  He was shot before his senior year and then took a back seat to Marcel Dareus who was emerging at this time.  Deaderick only did the 40 at the Combine but again, he compares well to all of the top DT taken last year.  Suh 6-4, 307, 5.03 Deaderick 6-4, 314, 5.08 D. Williams 6-2, 327, 5.19 Odrick 6-5, 304, 5.03 Price 6-1, 303, 5.12 L. Joseph 6-5, 328, 5.09 Deaderick, being a Nick Saban kid, certainly helped BB take a chance on him in the 7th.  But we saw him in the dog house late last year allegedly for being late to team meetings.  Still, I would not give up him.  Your point is well taken in that other than Wilfork, there isn't a true stud.  Wright when healthy generates a good pass rush.  Warren if he returns healthy brings experience and some stability to the left side.  Watt and Jordan are currently a little undersized for 34 DE.  I think both will add some weight and get at or over 300 within a year but I don't think either would crack the starting line up from day 1, although I think Watt has a chance.  For me personally, I'd take either at 17 if there.  I don't like Wilkerson.  I like Taylor but feel BB doesn't have much of a stomach for players with character issues.  This leaves Heyward at 28.  Heyward has a great character and when healthy can be disruptive.  ButI don't think BB is thinking DL this year.  I just think he's looking at 8 guys signed through or past 2012 who ranked 12th against the run last year and as a group are young and improving.  By DT, do you mean a 43 DT or a 34 NT?  Because there are some solid options at 43 DT that we could get for sub packages.  Marvin Austin (who has a checkered past but has been really forthcoming and doing everything right since) could be a dominant player in the nickel.  He might be had in the low 30s.  Since we're in our sub packages 57% of the time, why not consider a 43 type who can get after the QB? I think a lot of us are stuck on the idea of getting a pure 34 DE like Seymour, long and athletic who can kick inside on passing downs.  I think this is our weakness.  When in a 34, teams realize the front 3 can't get pressure so they pass on 1st down.  We really shouldn't be in a 34 without the right personnel.  If our front 3 can't get pressure and we have no play makers at OLB, running a 34 will not work regardless of how good the secondary is.  So yea, I'd love to get a Watt and a Kerrigan to try to get that attacking front 7 but I see the need at OL reaching a crises point.  What do we do if Mankins holds out and we don't draft a plug and play OG?  If we lose Light and Mankins holds out and we don't address OL we could be starting, left to right with LeVoir and Orhnberger behind them: Vollmer, Connolly, Koppen, Wendell, Kaczur YIKES!!  
    Posted by Faucetman



    2 great points:

    "Seymour, long and athletic who can kick inside on passing downs.  I think this is our weakness.  When in a 34, teams realize the front 3 can't get pressure so they pass on 1st down.  We really shouldn't be in a 34 without the right personnel.  If our front 3 can't get pressure and we have no play makers at OLB, running a 34 will not work regardless of how good the secondary is."


    just like on offense. too predictable.


    "So yea, I'd love to get a Watt and a Kerrigan to try to get that attacking front 7 but I see the need at OL reaching a crises point.  What do we do if Mankins holds out and we don't draft a plug and play OG?  If we lose Light and Mankins holds out and we don't address OL we could be starting, left to right with LeVoir and Orhnberger behind them"


    what we need is
    kraft off his butt and make it right with mankins (little chance). if one doesnt eat crow, could be  a holdout. but only the mgt knows what they have in mind re mankins and light.

    even if we go for some talented lineman on offense, we have 9 picks and next years picks (that we can trade). we have the ability to get it done this year and try for 2 in 3, instead of waiting a year or 2 and having only 2 yrs or only one with brady at his best and able to deliver to the promised land.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Ugghh I really dislike the total defense stat. It don't matter if you give up a million yards. What matters is points/per game. The score determines who wins and loses not how much you go up and down the field between the goal lines. In 2001 NE won the superbowl and were ranked 21st in total defense(yards). 2010 NE was 25th. They've got work to do but its not all that significant. They need to get better in the red zone, beside the whole pass rush thing. 2001 they were 6th fewest in points allowed per game at 17. 2010 they were 8th fewest in points allowed per game at 19.6. They have to get back at or under, preferably, that magic 17 number. Every year that NE has won or been in the superbowl the defense has allowed a 17 or fewer points per game average, REGARDLESS of the total defense rankings or numbers. Sometimes those two numbers have gone hand-in-hand but other times not so much.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    low, did you read my post about "the conservative defense, let them have a long drive as long as they dont score, leaving us the need to score immediately, leaving us no margin of error" post? bottom line, its a very risky way to win games (hope they make a mistake versus playing a good defense with talented players). mada a little sense when we didnt have the players. now there isnoexcuse though, with all the picks in our hands.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    faucet and all,
    on von miler:
    mcCrystal-draft ace

    Final Thoughts: Von Miller

    In the last few weeks leading up to the draft I’ll be posting a series of “final thoughts” on some of the top prospects in this year’s class. Up first: Von Miller

    I’ll start off by saying I really like Miller. He’s a solid 1st-round pick and has a ton of potential as a pass rusher. However, I don’t think he is quite worthy of a top-five pick, which is where he is all but certain to go in the draft.

    Miller has drawn comparisons to Green Bay’s Clay Matthews, and since this is a copy-cat league everyone wants to get the next great pass rushing 3-4 linebacker.

    While Miller and Matthews have some similarities, I’m not buying the comparison. What makes Matthews great is his motor and his ability to fight through junk. He is constantly on the move and offensive linemen never know where he’s going next. In essence he excels because he’s always one step ahead of the offensive line – he keeps them guessing. This is essential to his production because he doesn’t have elite size or strength and as a result, when an offensive linemen does get his hands on him in a good position he is actually pretty easy to block.

    Miller is a top-5 lock, but is he overrated?

    Miller lacks the elite change-of-direction quickness that makes Matthews such a great playmaker. Miller’s speed and athleticism is impressive, but I don’t see him making the same types of plays that Matthews does. Miller’s strength is as a pure pass rusher. He pins his ears back and goes full speed ahead.

    At times, Miller will blow past offensive tackles and should have no problem averaging seven to 10 sacks per season in the NFL. But that’s just seven to 10 plays out of a few hundered for which he’ll be on the field. What will he do the other 97% of the time?

    One of the concerns with Miller’s style of play is that it becomes easy to run at him. He will get caught out of position frequently as he simply over-runs the play.

    Another issue with Miller’s game is that he lacks the ability to fight through the junk that Matthews does so consistently. Matthews has a knack for emerging from a mess at the line of scrimmage to make a play. Miller lacks the instincts, ability to read the play and the great foot quickness to have the same type of success in these situations.

    Think of it like this, how often do you see Matthews make plays after the offensive play has broken down? He’s a threat throughout the duration of a play. Miller on the other hand is an explosive player who makes his impact plays immediately off the snap. As an offensive linemen if you can get your hands into his body, or even just deliver a good punch to knock him off his path, you’re set. You’ve knocked him out of position and, more often than not, removed him from the play.

    I think the comparison to Matthews really stems from the fact that, like Matthews, Miller lines up at various spots on the field throughout the game. This gives off the impression that he’s making plays all over the place, but in reality, it’s simply a result of where he lines up. This has very little to do with Miller himself, and more to do with the creativity of Texas A&M’s coaching staff.

    Another concern with Miller, albeit a minor one, is the fact that he hasn’t really been tested against elite competition. Yes, he played in the Big 12 but how many future NFL starters did he face? The Big 12 is a great conference, but when evaluating players I’m more concerned with who he faced at specific positions – in Miller’s case, offensive tackles.

    Who was the best offensive tackle Miller faced this year? That’s a tough call. He probably didn’t face anyone who projects as a future 1st-round pick. As I said, it’s a minor concern, but when watching film you have to factor in who he’s matched up against.

    Despite having these concerns, I do like Miller. There are flaws in his game but he is an elite athlete and he seems like a smart guy. Give him a few years with a great coaching staff and he could eliminate some of these concerns altogether. I simply feel as though he has a few glaring holes in his game which, at least initially, will make him a liability in certain situations.

    All that said, Miller should be an early favorite for defensive rookie of the year. Much like Ndamukong Suh this past season, all anyone really notices are sack totals and big hits – even if that only accounts for 3 to 5 percent of your total plays. Like Suh was in 2010, Miller will be a liability against the run, and also in coverage, but he’ll impress fans with his ability to get to the quarterback and immediately become a star.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In looking at the board again and doing my own internal mock, I think it far more likely that the top 5 OTs will be gone by 28 than I do the top remaining DE/OLBs.  I can see it possible that several, if not all, of the following are there at 28; Kerrigan, Houston, Reed and Ayers.  If we take this out further, I could see at least one being there at 33 assuming a QB needy team (ARI) perhaps comes up to 28 ahead of BUF.  Therefore, I think we should do this. 17.  Gabe Carimi 28.  Trade back to highest bidder, ARI, SD whatever. 33.  Take the best OLB left out of Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Ayers 60.  Wisniewski, Schilling or Hudson If 28 is traded to ARI. 38.  Marvin Austin this addresses OT, OG, OLB and DL right off the bat.  We would get a 2nd or 3rd in 2012 for the ten spot move back.  I'm not sure if Austin is there at 38 as I haven't mocked past 30 yet.  I do see PIT at 31 in jail.  There will be nothing to help them at value, Watkins likely goes to CHI the way this is shaping up.  There will be no OTs, OG or CBs worthy of pick 31.  PIT will have to go Heyward as DE is their 4th need.
    Posted by Faucetman


    not bad,
    got a feel for who may end up being best for our team?
    (re Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Ayers)
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    reading through several of the top rated mocks the past 5 years (the most players matched ot team and most players picked right in the first round,

    i'm most frequently seeing watt or jordan picked at 17 (watt slightly more often), o line or olb at 28; and the opposite position at 33.

    ie if no trades (yeah right! but maybe), de, then olb and o line (the latter 2 in various order).

    the olb most frequently seen to us is houston, some say ayers.

    and o line i'm seeing is watkins and hudson.


    after these 3, a lot of variation.

    most commonly,
    then rb
    followed by more o line

    but some too have cb's and wr's sometimes mixing in after first 3 picks
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    IWhat makes you think any team would trade a 2012 1st round pick for pick # n Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Here is my next mock draft/offseason  Trades: #17 and #60 to Was for #10 #28 to SD for #50 and #61 #33 to Ari for #38 and #69 #61 to Buf (or some other crappy team) for 2012 1st rounder and #100 #92 to Oak for 2012 2nd rounder and #148 FA's (once we have it) Re-sign Light, but Mankins will probably walk RB Ricky Williams WR Malcolm Floyd DE/OLB Manny Lawson CB Eric Wright Draft: #10 Robert Quinn-DE/OLB-North Carolina #38 Danny Watkins-OL-Baylor #50 Marvin Austin-DL-North Carolina #69 James Carpenter-OT-Alabama #74 Shane Vereen-HB-California #100 Greg Roemus-DE/OLB-Pittsburgh #125 Greg Salas-WR-Hawaii #148 Greg McElroy-QB-Alabama #159 Buster Skrine-CB-UT-Chatt #193 Mark Herzlich-ILB/OLB-Boston College
    Posted by titletownfan


    What makes you think ANY TEAM would trade a 2012 1st round pick for pick # 61 (very bottom of the 2nd round and basically a 3rd rounder)????? Try to keep your fantasy trades realistic!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Seymour
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Apparently "he" is short for Seymour, ha.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : low, did you read my post about "the conservative defense, let them have a long drive as long as they dont score, leaving us the need to score immediately, leaving us no margin of error" post? bottom line, its a very risky way to win games (hope they make a mistake versus playing a good defense with talented players). mada a little sense when we didnt have the players. now there isnoexcuse though, with all the picks in our hands.
    Posted by brdbreu



    This is not new. This is the brand of football BB plays.

    People forgot who the Patriots were since 2007.

    Every game played close to the vest. Every game a bit ugly and nasty. Stay close and give your team a chance to win at the end . Try to play with a lead.

    The Patriots continue to win and have retooled on the fly without going in the toilet.

    I am not about to question BB's defensive system.

    That same defensive system let up 17 points in 2007 superbowl. You get that from a defense in the post season your team should have every chance to win.

    The past few seasons the D has been weaker but they have been rebuilding on the fly.

    I don't see the system being the problem.

    The system is based on players playing a role, he's finding new players for those roles.

    If they have a solid draft and hit a few home runs on both sides of the ball they will be looking very strong moving forward.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Ugghh I really dislike the total defense stat. It don't matter if you give up a million yards. What matters is points/per game. The score determines who wins and loses not how much you go up and down the field between the goal lines. In 2001 NE won the superbowl and were ranked 21st in total defense(yards). 2010 NE was 25th. They've got work to do but its not all that significant. They need to get better in the red zone, beside the whole pass rush thing. 2001 they were 6th fewest in points allowed per game at 17. 2010 they were 8th fewest in points allowed per game at 19.6. They have to get back at or under, preferably, that magic 17 number. Every year that NE has won or been in the superbowl the defense has allowed a 17 or fewer points per game average, REGARDLESS of the total defense rankings or numbers. Sometimes those two numbers have gone hand-in-hand but other times not so much.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

    Low,

    Thanks for reminding us of that "bend, don't break" defensive philosophy of the Pats.  You're right BB doesn't care about how many yards he gives up, just about how many points.  Still, giving up nearly 20 points a game was bad considering the weak offenses we faced last year, 8 of the bottom 13.  We will have to do better this year since we are going up against 9 of the top 12 offenses from last year.  Of course every year is different. 

    25th in yards allowed is still an ugly stat.  It means the other team is moving the chains keeping our D on the field while Brady sits.  We lost the time of possession game last year too and I'm not so sure it was because we were scoring so fast.  I think our D was on the field for too many long drives.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Apparently "he" is short for Seymour, ha.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    Was that not what you were talking about? I wasn't actually following along.

    I saw something about BB actually drafting a player under 300 pounds before round 4. I knew Seymour  was 299 coming out.

    Sorry if I misunderstood the thread.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Low, Thanks for reminding us of that "bend, don't break" defensive philosophy of the Pats.  You're right BB doesn't care about how many yards he gives up, just about how many points.  Still, giving up nearly 20 points a game was bad considering the weak offenses we faced last year, 8 of the bottom 13.  We will have to do better this year since we are going up against 9 of the top 12 offenses from last year.  Of course every year is different.  25th in yards allowed is still an ugly stat.  It means the other team is moving the chains keeping our D on the field while Brady sits.  We lost the time of possession game last year too and I'm not so sure it was because we were scoring so fast.  I think our D was on the field for too many long drives.
    Posted by Faucetman



    Yep I certainly agree the D has work to do that's why I think the Pats are still in a tough position. I know BB will probably try and flip some picks into next season but they could really utilize their top picks this year for both sides of the ball. IF they think the players would be big enough upgrades.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I was just checking out the Offensive Line stats from last year.  NFL.com defaults to the fewest sacks allowed as the top statistic.  NE ranked 4th in sacks allowed, below are the top 10.  The bottom 5 were 32. CHI, 31. CAR, 30. ARI, 29. PHI, 28. WAS.  Of course sacks goes hand-in-hand with QB pocket awareness and getting rid of the football, so the teams who gave up the fewest sacks often have the best QBs in this regard.

    1.  IND 16
    2.  NYG 16
    3.  ATL 23
    4.  NE 25
    5.  NO 26
    6.  DET 27
    7.  TEN 27
    8.  CIN 28
    9.  NYJ 28
    10 TB  30

    It seemed to me that Brady was getting hit a lot but actually, no.  He was hit 52 times which was tied for 3rd fewest with the Jets and Giants.  Hit fewer were TEN 46 and IND 47.

    If we look at average yards gained running the football, NE ranked 12th at 4.3.  Again, this goes hand-in-hand with the skills of the RB.  There were some bad teams that did well running the football like ARI, MIN, TEN and HOU who all did better than us but they have better backs too.

    There is also an interesting stat called RUSH PWR.  This is the percentage of rushes on 3rd or 4th down with 2 or fewer yards to go that resulted in a 1st down or TD.  It also includes rushes on 1st and goal and 2nd and goal from the opponents 2 yard line or closer which resulted in a TD.  Power numbers are assigned for each direction.

    The results were a bit surprising to me.  NE ranked 17th running to the left, 10th running to the center and 9th running to the right.  Of course Logan Mankins missed 9 games but this does not speak well of Matt Light who was on the left side with help all year long.  Overall, NE ranked 9th in power runs.
     
    RankTeamPwr LPwr CPwr RTot Pwr
    1PHI8268100250
    2MIA927978249
    3NYJ786989236
    4CLE836779229
    5ARI757371219
    6NO737367213
    7ATL607771208
    8MIN786364205
    9NE647367204
    10HOU647961204
    11JAX776459200
    12CAR675475196
    13BUF506478192
    14PIT775955191
    15TB805850188
    16SD716945185
    17BAL477558180
    18STL456467176
    19OAK677925171
    20NYG505067167
    21SF445667167
    22DET775733167
    23KC437347163
    24IND785629163
    25DAL575944160
    26CIN415060151
    27DEN446740151
    28GB147557146
    29SEA355457146
    30TEN406340143
    31WAS577114142
    32CHI563340129

    In terms of production, here's a look at where we ran the ball for plays greater than 10 yards and for first downs.

     LeftCenterRight
    10+22 (9th)7 (23rd)20 (11th)
    1st49 (2nd)31 (9th)39 (7th)

    It isn't too surprising that we ran towards Mankin and had success but we also ran towards Vollmer a lot and also had success.  Typically teams run right, towards their strong side but we ran left with more success.  I don't have the numbers of attempts in each direction, just the 10+ and 1st down results.  What is also revealing is we had our worst success running up the middle.  I suspect a good deal of those first downs up the middle was Brady on QB sneaks.  Again, I'm not sure how revealing these stats are since I don't know the number of attempts in each direction.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    How does a week 1st round 34 DE 2012 class and a strong OT affect decisions for this year's draft?

    Voll can start at LT day one, with so many TE sets now a rookie IMO would be more realistic as a RT.  I love to see Carimi but don't know they go after a Light replacement more than a RT/OG type guys in the 3rd and 4th.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Great info, Faucet....I don't have any conclusive evidence to support my claim....only watching every game and then watching it again, but I think Koppen is truly a weak link. I remember many occasions where he was simply pushed back. I don't think he is strong enough against the big nose tackles and your stats show that with our worst success being up the middle.

    This is one reason I wouldn't really want Hudson from FSU....too small. Athletes are available that can be technically sound as well as physical now...no need to get small guys.

    Just my thoughts...


    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    I was just checking out the Offensive Line stats from last year.  NFL.com defaults to the fewest sacks allowed as the top statistic.  NE ranked 4th in sacks allowed, below are the top 10.  The bottom 5 were 32. CHI, 31. CAR, 30. ARI, 29. PHI, 28. WAS.  Of course sacks goes hand-in-hand with QB pocket awareness and getting rid of the football, so the teams who gave up the fewest sacks often have the best QBs in this regard. 1.  IND 16 2.  NYG 16 3.  ATL 23 4.  NE 25 5.  NO 26 6.  DET 27 7.  TEN 27 8.  CIN 28 9.  NYJ 28 10 TB  30 It seemed to me that Brady was getting hit a lot but actually, no.  He was hit 52 times which was tied for 3rd fewest with the Jets and Giants.  Hit fewer were TEN 46 and IND 47. If we look at average yards gained running the football, NE ranked 12th at 4.3.  Again, this goes hand-in-hand with the skills of the RB.  There were some bad teams that did well running the football like ARI, MIN, TEN and HOU who all did better than us but they have better backs too. There is also an interesting stat called RUSH PWR.  This is the percentage of rushes on 3rd or 4th down with 2 or fewer yards to go that resulted in a 1st down or TD.  It also includes rushes on 1st and goal and 2nd and goal from the opponents 2 yard line or closer which resulted in a TD.  Power numbers are assigned for each direction. The results were a bit surprising to me.  NE ranked 17th running to the left, 10th running to the center and 9th running to the right.  Of course Logan Mankins missed 9 games but this does not speak well of Matt Light who was on the left side with help all year long.  Overall, NE ranked 9th in power runs.   Rank Team Pwr L Pwr C Pwr R Tot Pwr 1 PHI 82 68 100 250 2 MIA 92 79 78 249 3 NYJ 78 69 89 236 4 CLE 83 67 79 229 5 ARI 75 73 71 219 6 NO 73 73 67 213 7 ATL 60 77 71 208 8 MIN 78 63 64 205 9 NE 64 73 67 204 10 HOU 64 79 61 204 11 JAX 77 64 59 200 12 CAR 67 54 75 196 13 BUF 50 64 78 192 14 PIT 77 59 55 191 15 TB 80 58 50 188 16 SD 71 69 45 185 17 BAL 47 75 58 180 18 STL 45 64 67 176 19 OAK 67 79 25 171 20 NYG 50 50 67 167 21 SF 44 56 67 167 22 DET 77 57 33 167 23 KC 43 73 47 163 24 IND 78 56 29 163 25 DAL 57 59 44 160 26 CIN 41 50 60 151 27 DEN 44 67 40 151 28 GB 14 75 57 146 29 SEA 35 54 57 146 30 TEN 40 63 40 143 31 WAS 57 71 14 142 32 CHI 56 33 40 129 In terms of production, here's a look at where we ran the ball for plays greater than 10 yards and for first downs.   Left Center Right 10+ 22 (9th) 7 (23rd) 20 (11th) 1st 49 (2nd) 31 (9th) 39 (7th) It isn't too surprising that we ran towards Mankin and had success but we also ran towards Vollmer a lot and also had success.  Typically teams run right, towards their strong side but we ran left with more success.  I don't have the numbers of attempts in each direction, just the 10+ and 1st down results.  What is also revealing is we had our worst success running up the middle.  I suspect a good deal of those first downs up the middle was Brady on QB sneaks.  Again, I'm not sure how revealing these stats are since I don't know the number of attempts in each direction.
    Posted by Faucetman

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    oh man, thats funny! actually i think eric moore is equal in ability to Demarcus ware so lets ignore tthe LB position too. but seriously, does anyone really think that BB wont look to address the RDE position early in this draft? i mean seriously...the d-line is a total mess, and BB was clear as day about that by bringing in street free agents, benching ron bust brace for most of the preseason and a lot of the season, and inserting deaderick (second coming of suh) right after a suspension because there was literally no one else to play. and then signing a washed up stroud before the lockout. there is one player who is locked in to the D-line and thats wilfork. BB has used 1st and 2nd round picks constantly to stock the d-line, expect the trend to continue. In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** :
    Deaderick is a guy who is nearly as athletic as Suh.  
    Posted by artielang

    Thanks for the lecture, this is my first season watching football so appreciate the condescending tone and your far superior knowledge.  Actually, I never said Eric Moore compares to DeMarcus Ware and I never said Deaderick was as good as Suh.  I said Deaderick's 40 time and size were similar to Suh. 

    BB had a chance to draft Oderick and Dan Williams last year and he passed.  Obviously he got a great player in Devin McCourty.  Drafting DL is certainly a possibility but it depends on who's there.  He isn't going to draft a 34 DE in the first round just to feel good about doing it.  The criteria has typically been 6-4+, 300 lbs+ who are strong, athletic, have great characters and put team first.

    We have a lot of players on the DL locked up, but as you say, not a lot of talent past Wilfork.  No body has disputed this.  Ty Warren was never considered dominate.  We spent pick 13 on a guy who never made it to the Pro Bowl and likely never will.  So yes, I'm saying BB may not draft a RDE early (17, 28, 33) if there isn't anyone there who fits what he's looking for that he feels will help the team.

    Since we have nose locked up with Wilfork/Brace and we have a plethora of 43 DT types in Pryor, Love, Wright and Stroud we are lacking solid 5 techniques.  Deaderick and Warren are really the only two that sort of fit the mold although Stroud and Wright will play there.  So if you are looking at the list of potential draft picks that fit the criteria, all have some question marks.

    JJ Watt 6-5, 290, 4.81.  BB hates his agent, Tom Condon, and swore he would never draft a player he represents and hasn't since Ben Watson.  Watt may go as high as #9 to Dallas and BB has never made a move up this big in the top 20.

    Cam Jordan 6-4, 287, 4.71 4.74.  Great character, legacy player and fits the mold except for the weight.  12 lbs lighter than Seymour coming out.

    Cam Heyward 6-5, 294, 4.95.  Great character, legacy player, fits the mold pretty closely.  May be had possibly at 28 but has some injury/durability issues

    Muhammad Wilkerson 6-4, 315, 4.96.  Good enough kid, excelled in the MAC against far inferior athletes, did little against the two top OL types he played against this year.  Looks great on the hoof and in drills but has a questionable motor and again, level of competition is a huge concern.

    Phil Taylor 6-3, 334, 5.09.  A little short, more of a NT but athletic enough to play on the end.  He had some off-the-field issues, was suspended at Penn State and transferred to Baylor.  Also struggled with weight and his 334 is the lowest weight and best shape he's been in for awhile.  At NT keeping his weight in check is less of an issue but at DE, it would become a big problem if he puts any more weight back on.

    Jarvis Jenkins 6-4, 310, 5.03.  Has ideal size and burst.  Lacked production at Clemson and projects as a third rounder.

    We could throw Nick Failey into the mix if he makes it past 10 but he also has some issues with stamina, taking plays off, being a little underweight and having a rep as a dirty player but there is no denying the talent.

    _________________________________________________________

    I never advocated not addressing OLB either.  The facts are BB hasn't drafted a DE conversion type to play OLB before the 3rd round.  He prefers to get F/A who fit his criteria.  Kerrigan is the best option in the 1st round if BB was to draft a conversion type.  The others all have issues.

    In the second round Houston is an option but has been inconsistent at times and would appear to struggle backing into coverage.  He's also had a bit of an injury history.  Sheard has character concerns, arrested last year for throwing a guy through a plate glass window of an art gallery.  Sam Acho is a great kid, high motor, can get after the QB but at 6-1-1/2 is a little shorter than BB's likes but he might be had in the 60 range so I see him as a good value option.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    How does a week 1st round 34 DE 2012 class and a strong OT affect decisions for this year's draft? Voll can start at LT day one, with so many TE sets now a rookie IMO would be more realistic as a RT.  I love to see Carimi but don't know they go after a Light replacement more than a RT/OG type guys in the 3rd and 4th.
    Posted by Pats7393


    To me this effects everything. It basically says to me that you get the top of the line DE now to finish the D rebuild and trade into next year to grab one of the top T's. Don't forget that a number of teams are looking for T's and will over reach to get one. We could see 6 T's come off the board in the 1st in what many consider a late 1st to late 2nd talent pool level. Come next year these T hungry teams most likely won't be there so trading with a fringe playoff team this year could net you anywhere from 10-24 which would be prime location to take a T next year.

    The other thing to consider is it might take a year or 2 for a T to develop. Very few come in from day 1 and play up to a high caliber there is a learning curve so my sense from the beat writers and general ramblings I hear is that they want Light to come back for a 2-3 year period. This seems like they are setting up not taking a top T this year and either trying to develop a high talent late pick or going for a elite T next year. the 2-3 years buys them this year and gives then another 1-2 years to full work with a new T and let him comfortable adjust into the line.

    For me T was only an option if we traded back #17 and no one was available or if someone fell to #28/33 that was expected to go higher and I feel that's how they will look at this draft. If they don't take a T early I fully expect them to go after a T in college that projects to a G in the Pro's (ie Carpenter, Morris, Rackley, Boling). This gives them a new interior lineman but adds some flexibility that they could fill in incase of injury through the year.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Was that not what you were talking about? I wasn't actually following along. I saw something about BB actually drafting a player under 300 pounds before round 4. I knew Seymour  was 299 coming out. Sorry if I misunderstood the thread.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Yes, I was poking fun at myself for typing "he" instead of the actual player's name which was Seymour.  I had realized that Seymour was 299 the combine/pro-day.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    My updated Top 75 Draft Targets:

    New additions/removals in blue.

    Top 75: 

    LB: (16)

    Ryan Kerrigan- OLB/DE- Purdue
    Brooks Reed- OLB/DE- Arizona
    Adrian Clayborn- OLB/DE- Iowa
    Jabaal Sheard- OLB/DE- PIttT
    Thomas Keiser- OLB/DE- Stanford
    Ricky Elmore- OLB/DE- Arizona
    Greg Romeus- OLB/DE- Pitt
    Ryan Winterswyk- OLB/DE- Boise State
    Cliff Matthews- OLB/DE- South Carolina
    Ugo Chinasa- OLB/DE- Oklahoma State
    Mark Herzlich- LB- BC
    Mason Foster- LB- Washington
    Jeremy Beal- LB- Oklahoma
    KJ Wright- LB- Miss State
    Alex Wujciak- ILB- Maryland
    Kelvin Sheppard- ILB- LSU *NEW*

    DL: (12)
    JJ Watt- DL- Wisconsin
    Cameron Jordan- DL- Cal
    Cameron Heyward- DL- Ohio State
    Jarvis Jenkins- DL- Clemson
    Muhammad Wilkerson- DL- Temple
    Sione Fua- DL- Stanford
    Lawrence Guy- DL- Arizona State
    Phil Taylor- DL- Baylor
    Chris Neild- DL- WVU
    Ian Williams- DL- ND
    David Carter- DL- UCLA
    Kenrick Ellis- DL- Hampton *NEW*

    DB: (11)
    Tyler Sash- S- Iowa
    Shiloh Keo- S- Idaho
    Robert Sands- S- WVU
    Mana Silva- S- Hawaii *NEW*
    Prince Amukamara- CB- Nebraska *NEW*

    Buster Skrine- CB- Chattanooga
    Johnny Patrick- CB- Louisville
    Curtis Marsh- CB- Utah State
    Chimdi Chekwa- CB- Ohio State
    Brandon Harris- CB- Miami  Ras-I Dowling- CB- Virginia

    QB: (3)
    Andy Dalton- QB- TCU
    Greg McElroy- QB- Alabama
    Rick Stanzi- QB- Iowa


    WR: (8)
    Randall Cobb- WR/RB/QB/KR/PR/CB- Kentucky
    Torrey Smith- WR- Maryland
    Jeff Maehl- WR- Oregon
    Jeremy Kerley- WR- TCU
    Dane Sanzenbacher- WR- Ohio State
    Greg Salas- WR- Hawaii
    Cecil Shorts- WR- Mount Union
    Aldrick Robinson- WR- SMU 

    RB: (9)
    Shane Vereen- RB- Cal
    Ryan Williams- RB- VT
    Delone Carter- RB- Syracuse
    Alex Green- RB- Hawaii
    Mario Fannin- RB- Auburn
    Stevan Ridley- RB- LSU Mark Ingram- RB- Alabama Mikel Leshoure- RB- Illinois
    Darren Evans- RB- VT *NEW*


    FB: (1)
    Owen Marecic- FB/LB- Stanford

    OL: (14)
    Anthony Castonzo- OT- BC
    Gabe Carimi- OT- Wisconsin
    James Carpenter- OT/OG- Alabama
    Mike Pouncey- C/OG- Florida
    Stefen Wisniewski- C/OG- Penn State
    Tim Barnes- C- Missouri

    Danny Watkins- OG/OT- Baylor
    Stephen Schilling- OG- Michigan
    Julian Vandervelde- OG- Iowa
    Clint Boling- OG- Georgia
    Mike Person- OG/OT- Montana *NEW*
    Derek Sherrod- OT- Miss State *NEW*
    Andrew Jackson- OG- Fresno State *NEW*
    John Moffitt- OG- Wisconsin *NEW*


    TE: (1)
    Kyle Rudolph- TE- ND

    Removed:
    Eric Hagg- S- Nebraska *REMOVED 3/22*
    Ricky Henry- OG- Nebraska *REMOVED 4/4*
    Leonard Hankerson- WR- Miami *REMOVED 4/4*
    Bilal Powell- RB- Louisville *REMOVED 4/4*
    Ross Homan- ILB- Ohio State   *REMOVED 4/4*

    Kendall Hunter- RB- Oklahoma State *REMOVED 4/7*
    Jordan Todman- RB- Uconn *REMOVED 4/7*
    Chris Conte- S- Cal *Removed 4/7*
    Rodney Hudson- C/OG- FSU *REMOVED 4/10*
    Marcus Gilbert- OT- Florida *REMOVED 4/10*
    Will Rackley- OG- Lehigh *REMOVED 4/10*
    Henry Hynoski- FB/TE- Pitt *REMOVED 4/10*
    Sam Acho- OLB/DE- Texas *REMOVED 4/10*
    Jeff Tarpinian- LB- Iowa *REMOVED 4/10*
    Dontay Moch- OLB- Nevata *REMOVED 4/10*
    Quinton Carter- S- Oklahoma *REMOVED 4/10*
    Scott Lutrus- ILB- UConn *REMOVED 4/10*
     
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    My updated Top 75 Draft Targets: New additions/removals in blue. Top 75:   LB: (16) Ryan Kerrigan- OLB/DE- Purdue Brooks Reed- OLB/DE- Arizona Adrian Clayborn- OLB/DE- Iowa Jabaal Sheard- OLB/DE- PIttT Thomas Keiser- OLB/DE- Stanford Ricky Elmore- OLB/DE- Arizona Greg Romeus- OLB/DE- Pitt Ryan Winterswyk- OLB/DE- Boise State Cliff Matthews- OLB/DE- South Carolina Ugo Chinasa- OLB/DE- Oklahoma State Mark Herzlich- LB- BC Mason Foster- LB- Washington Jeremy Beal- LB- Oklahoma KJ Wright- LB- Miss State Alex Wujciak- ILB- Maryland Kelvin Sheppard- ILB- LSU *NEW* DL: (12) JJ Watt- DL- Wisconsin Cameron Jordan- DL- Cal Cameron Heyward- DL- Ohio State Jarvis Jenkins- DL- Clemson Muhammad Wilkerson- DL- Temple Sione Fua- DL- Stanford Lawrence Guy- DL- Arizona State Phil Taylor- DL- Baylor Chris Neild- DL- WVU Ian Williams- DL- ND David Carter- DL- UCLA Kenrick Ellis- DL- Hampton *NEW* DB: (11) Tyler Sash- S- Iowa Shiloh Keo- S- Idaho Robert Sands- S- WVU Mana Silva- S- Hawaii *NEW* Prince Amukamara- CB- Nebraska *NEW* Buster Skrine- CB- Chattanooga Johnny Patrick- CB- Louisville Curtis Marsh- CB- Utah State Chimdi Chekwa- CB- Ohio State Brandon Harris- CB- Miami   Ras-I Dowling- CB- Virginia QB: (3) Andy Dalton- QB- TCU Greg McElroy- QB- Alabama Rick Stanzi- QB- Iowa WR: (8) Randall Cobb- WR/RB/QB/KR/PR/CB- Kentucky Torrey Smith- WR- Maryland Jeff Maehl- WR- Oregon Jeremy Kerley- WR- TCU Dane Sanzenbacher- WR- Ohio State Greg Salas- WR- Hawaii Cecil Shorts- WR- Mount Union Aldrick Robinson- WR- SMU  RB: (9) Shane Vereen- RB- Cal Ryan Williams- RB- VT Delone Carter- RB- Syracuse Alex Green- RB- Hawaii Mario Fannin- RB- Auburn Stevan Ridley- RB- LSU  Mark Ingram- RB- Alabama Mikel Leshoure- RB- Illinois Darren Evans- RB- VT *NEW* FB: (1) Owen Marecic- FB/LB- Stanford OL: (14) Anthony Castonzo- OT- BC Gabe Carimi- OT- Wisconsin James Carpenter- OT/OG- Alabama Mike Pouncey- C/OG- Florida Stefen Wisniewski- C/OG- Penn State Tim Barnes- C- Missouri Danny Watkins- OG/OT- Baylor Stephen Schilling- OG- Michigan Julian Vandervelde- OG- Iowa Clint Boling- OG- Georgia Mike Person- OG/OT- Montana *NEW* Derek Sherrod- OT- Miss State *NEW* Andrew Jackson- OG- Fresno State *NEW* John Moffitt- OG- Wisconsin *NEW* TE: (1) Kyle Rudolph- TE- ND Removed: Eric Hagg- S- Nebraska *REMOVED 3/22* Ricky Henry- OG- Nebraska *REMOVED 4/4* Leonard Hankerson- WR- Miami *REMOVED 4/4* Bilal Powell- RB- Louisville *REMOVED 4/4* Ross Homan- ILB- Ohio State   *REMOVED 4/4* Kendall Hunter- RB- Oklahoma State *REMOVED 4/7* Jordan Todman- RB- Uconn *REMOVED 4/7* Chris Conte- S- Cal *Removed 4/7* Rodney Hudson- C/OG- FSU *REMOVED 4/10* Marcus Gilbert- OT- Florida *REMOVED 4/10* Will Rackley- OG- Lehigh *REMOVED 4/10* Henry Hynoski- FB/TE- Pitt *REMOVED 4/10* Sam Acho- OLB/DE- Texas *REMOVED 4/10* Jeff Tarpinian- LB- Iowa *REMOVED 4/10* Dontay Moch- OLB- Nevata *REMOVED 4/10* Quinton Carter- S- Oklahoma *REMOVED 4/10* Scott Lutrus- ILB- UConn *REMOVED 4/10*  
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Why did you remove Acho? Is it due to his size, or he simply didn't make the 75 cut?....Based on everything I have seen, he goes somewhere in the 60 range?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Why did you remove Acho? Is it due to his size, or he simply didn't make the 75 cut?....Based on everything I have seen, he goes somewhere in the 60 range?
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I removed him due to his height which is below 6-2.  I like him as an option, I just think they're more likely to stick with the current preferences and 6-2 seems to be the baseline.  I removed Moch for essentially the same reason.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I removed him due to his height which is below 6-2.  I like him as an option, I just think they're more likely to stick with the current preferences and 6-2 seems to be the baseline.  I removed Moch for essentially the same reason.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Thanks. Our list for OLB is getting smaller, especially late 2nd and beyond.

    Who are you leanign toward at teh position and where do you think we fill it in the draft?
     
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