2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Low, I did a quick look at NYJ and BAL and they both show a drop. However, NWE's drop has been most dramatic. NYJ 2010 - 41 2009 - 53 2008 - 39 2007 - 57 2006 - 67 BAL 2010 - 38 2009 - 60 2008 - 53 2007 - 86 2006 - 107
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Well...BAL's from 2006 to 2010 was really bad.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : This is a very interesting stat.  I agree there were not nearly enough negative plays behind the LOS.  But I don't think it is as important as rushing yards and rushing TDs allowed.  Let's look at some other interesting Defensive ranks for the Pats front 7. 10 rushing TDs allowed which was 10th best in the NFL.   1,728 yards on the ground allowed, 11th best. 9 forced fumbles, 8th best. 6 runs of 20+ yards, 3rd best. 0 runs of 40+, tied best. 36 yards was longest running play allowed, 4th best. 25.6 rushing plays attempted per game, 12th best. 99 1st downs on the ground which was 11th worst.   1st downs allowed on 24.2% of running plays, 4th worst.  As bad as the secondary was in giving up yards, it was first in the NFL in INTs with 25 in 2010.  But does this mean we had a good secondary?  We also gave up 25 TDs in the passing game, 10th worst.  Teams averaged 21.8 first downs per game against us, 3rd worst, worst than Bills, Cardinals, Broncos and Panthers.  The Pats gave up a first down on 3rd down an NFL worst 47% of the time.  The Pats surrendered 12 first downs on 4th down attempts 2nd most.  Teams converted 60% of the time on 4th down, 8th worst %. The Pats D had 1,065 plays ran against them, 6th most.  The Pats lost the time of possession battle too, 31:25, 10th worst. Clearly, the D as a whole needs to improve.  Getting Bodden and Warren back can only help.  The D is extremely young so an extra year can only help.  If the Pats can get JJ Watt or Cam Jordan, they should.  If they can trade up for Amukamara, that would give us a very solid secondary.  But the weakest position on D as I see it is OLB.  Would BB take a conversion type in the first round?  I have my doubts based on history. The OL is the most pressing need but BB is most likely to go Defense with our first pick then he should go OL with at least two picks between 33-74.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    hey faucet,
     in accumulation illustrates my earlier point of how much of the game opportunities we give away on offense leaving the other team on the field so long. i've illustrated this several times on this thread. some of these long drives that we give up several times a game and we cant stop a team, it almost feels like it would be better to let the runner run free and score so we dont waste the whole 2nd half having them drive down the field in 12-13 plays and then score a td, leaving us so little time to come back. its painful. passive defense and a few key game-changers missing. also illustrates why going up for prince for our first pick is a failed plan.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Ii've been reading and catching a lot of draft analysis, as i've mentioned from some of the top draft mock performers 1-10  (avg of last 5 years and last year), and several others that ive been looking at all along, today wes bunting, yesterday
    prime sports network and ourlads.

    when i first came out with my analysis of the patriots and their needs after teh loss to ny, after dumping obrian, the top need i had was pass rush (including de and olb). my recommendation was robert quinn or dareus (in a fantasy world both) . as olb can give us somewhat better pass rush, though i advocated then de first in importance, i think our first move should be to move up and get the guy at olb who will help us change the game. bb probably can steal a gem
    at de later, who hopefully will be an "a" talent.

    now my idea of quinn was shot down by many here (and nobody till more recently spoke up for quinn). some cited him (and an evaluator who did the same) as a 4th round prospect. hey i'm not an expert. i go by what is see and feel. however many evaluators including a guy who scouted for kansas city, philly, washington and prime sports has quinn as belonging with his ability in the top 6. bunting has him aas teh 5th best player an 8.0 (only 3 rated as 8.5 peterson, greene and jones), and as the clear best pass rusher in the draft.
    details below:

    ----------------------------------------------------
    quinn:

    "Possesses a tall, long-armed frame with good overall muscle tone and girth through his lower half. Coils up well into his stance and does a good job maximizing his first step off the football up the field. At times doesn't sit into his stance as well as he could, but got the most part plays with good bend. Get his hands up very quickly off the snap and knows how to use his length to initially slip blocks on contact. However, he looks much more natural at this stage using his hands to shed blocks in the pass game than vs. the run.

    In the pass game, he does a great job working a jab step inside and instantly exploding toward the outside edge, maintaining his balance and accelerating toward the quarterback as well as any pass rusher in college football. Showcases impressive natural body control when asked to flatten out around the corner and looks natural dropping his shoulder and working a powerful and compact swat to keep himself clean. Has a good -not great- first step that allows him to consistently threaten the outside and turn the corner. Is very efficient and savvy when asked to change directions and work the inside stunt. However, he needs to do a better job getting off the snap count on time, as he too often is the last defensive lineman moving off the ball — that should improve with more experience. Even so, the guy plays with a motor that runs non-stop, and because of his range and length, he rarely stays blocked for long.

    Against the run game, he needs to do a better job playing with a lower pad level initially off the snap since he too often gets high out of his stance and can be jolted backward on contact. However, because he's so long and sudden, he consistently is able to slip the block and close on the football after the initial jolt. He also needs to continue to work on
    his hand placement vs. the run game, especially when asked to set the edge. Although he does, for the most part, do a pretty good job remaining disciplined and staying at home with backside contain, he struggles to consistently gain initial leverage on contact when asked to take on blocks. His hands end up on the outside shoulders of opposing linemen
    where he can be steered away from the ball. But he does work hard to fight his way off blocks and has the kind of range to close from the backside and consistently make plays in pursuit.

    Missed the 2010 season for his involvement in the agent scandal, accepting illegitimate gifts on his behalf. Also, underwent brain surgery as a senior in high school for a benign tumor and made a full recovery and is a two-time defending state champ in wrestling.

    Impression: Simply put was the best pass-rushing defensive end I saw in the country in 2009. Needs to check out from a character standpoint, but all the tools are there for him to mature into one the best pass rushers to come out of this class and an impact guy off the edge if he can put 2010 behind him and develop."

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    at our position of the worst need, we can afford to use a few valuable bullets to get the #1 need filled by a game-changer (and a few other game-changers for that matter, we have 9 bullets, plus next years if necessary). and by the end of the draft we can get all the players we need now (so they can gain experience enough to try for a couple super bowls in the next 3 years-while brady is still at the top of his game).

    this was my analysis on doomsday (much more detailed though).
    in the past week alone, i have heard patriots analysts and non-analysts when mocking the draft make the same comments with a question as to whether they (patriots) will do it (draft up for the game-changer they need in the first).

    if not quinn,

    aldon smith is the next most devastating pass rusher rated by many (i know faucet has miller, and maybe he is, but i have heard and read analysts say he was neutralized by better tackles easily/dominated)

    bunting on smith: 8th best player 7.5 rating

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    aldon smith

    A tall, extremely long-armed defensive lineman with an athletic-looking frame and impressive explosion in all areas of his game. Possesses natural bend when asked to sit into his stance, coils up well and consistently takes a positive first step off the line and does a nice job keeping his pad level down off the football. Is a bit inconsistent extending his arms into blocks when run at and at times seems content to simply drop his shoulder and drive his way toward the football. However, seems to really have good instincts when asked to find the football and is very violent with his arms when asked to shed blocks. At times will allow defenders to gain leverage under him and can be initially driven off the ball. But, fights hard in order to disengage, uses his length and violent hands well to shed and possesses impressive closing range in pursuit. Is also very sudden and fluid for his size and has the footwork/balance to cleanly side step defenders who are trying to get into his frame, keep himself clean and close quickly on the ball carrier. Breaks down well in space and uses his long pterodactyl-like arms to wrap on his man.

    Is a gifted pass rusher who fires off the snap quickly and has a real savvy about his game getting after the quarterback. Plays from both a three- and four-point stance and does a great job quickly getting into the pad level of opposing linemen in the bull rush and initially driving them into the backfield. Allows his pad level to rise, which negates some of his strength when trying to finish, but is long enough to shed. Does a nice job using his long arms and violent hands in order to keep himself clean, loves to work the club to the outside, slowly playing it off the snap before accelerating past the tackle. He also has impressive lateral fluidity in balance working the inside arm over and club off his speed rush in order to cleanly side step blocks and accelerate toward the quarterback. Allows his pad level to get upright again once he gains a step and can be slowed through contact, but the motor seems to run well all the time. Has the ability to drop his pad level when flattening out around the edge once he gains a step, but doesn't often simply work the speed rush to the corner, likes to change gears and directions in order to reach the QB.

    Also, is a bear to block inside as a down defensive tackle, played some three-technique and has the first step to shoot gaps inside, but it's his lateral suddenness and length that allows him to consistently slip blocks inside and accelerate toward the quarterback.

    Missed some time in 2010 with a fractured fibula in a non-weight bearing bone in his leg and will need to check out medically.

    Impression: A downright dominant defensive lineman with an impressive physical skill set and great length. Showcases impress savvy, fluidity and violence as a pass rusher and should be able to further develop in the run game and mature into a potential Pro Bowl-caliber NFL defensive lineman.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    interestingly bunting has jordan as the 10th best player; 7.5 and much better than watt at de 27th best player 7.0 and behind heyward, clayborn and bowers (who he has 16th)
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Truthful I think Kerrigan has more upside and can become a 3 down LB. I'm not sure if Reed can become that type of LB but the comparison to Matthews is accurate imo so he can still be a rushing force. I'd rather have Kerrigan but if both Reed and Kerrigan are at 27 I don't see the Pats trading up to get Kerrigan. I think they grab who ever Atl doesn't take
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    so not enough difference for bb.
    for you?

    and thanks

    ps some evaluators have kerrigan being too slow
    and criticism of reed is even more severe:

    ie buting:

    kerrigan 6.8

    Possesses a good-sized frame for the position and looks comfortable lining up at both defensive end spots. Will even kick inside to tackle on third down and has the ability to create pressure inside as well. Isn't the most natural of benders and struggles to completely sit into his stance. Lacks a great first step off the snap and isn't going to be able to threaten the edge at the next level. However, is consistently one of the first defensive linemen moving off the football and knows how to quickly get into his opponents. Extends his arms well into blocks and is able to gain leverage with his hands and dictate to opposing linemen initially, but isn't a guy who consistently keeps his base down through contact. Nevertheless, exhibits good strength in his upper body and knows how to use his violent hands — loves to work his club — to gain a step and works his legs through contact in order to work his way toward the quarterback. Works very hard in pursuit, has a motor that runs nonstop and showcases the type of short-area suddenness to slip blocks initially on contact. Isn't ever going to win with his initial get off burst but has enough body control, power and savvy to create a step for himself on contact and fight his way toward the quarterback as a pass rusher.

    Now, isn't a real gifted athlete and really looks to lumber in pursuit when asked to chase the football down the field. Isn't going to make many plays from the backside and the more space he is in the less effective he plays. Doesn't possess the type of stack and shed ability vs. the run many people think.Gets too high at the point when asked to anchor and too often can be overwhelmed when run at. Does a nice job extending his arms into blocks, but doesn't disengage with much success because of his high pad level. Lacks the kind of athleticism to consistently stack and shed and make plays off his frame.

    Impression: A good pass rusher who uses his hands well to slip blocks, works hard and has some suddenness in tight areas. Would like to see him play the run better, but is a tough, high-character kid who could mature into a solid starter with some time.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    reed 6.3

    An undersized pass rusher who plays 100 miles per hour on every down. Exhibits a good first step off the snap, gets off the ball quickly, keeps his pad level down and is consistently one of the first defensive linemen moving off the line. Has the ability to threaten the edge and get into offensive tackles quickly. Looks comfortable keeping his pad level down into contact, extending his arms and can create a bit of a surge on his bull rush. Plays with good leverage and can be a bit more physical than his frame would suggest.

    However, lacks balance and body control at this stage and really struggles when asked to change directions, keep his feet under him and break off any type of counter move. Also seems to routinely overextend into blocks and doesn't have the type of coordination to drop his shoulder and really accelerate around the corner. Is a real linear pass rusher at this stage who hasn't figured out how to maintain his balance off his initial rush.

    Isn't a guy who can stack and shed vs. the run game at the next level, but does play with good leverage when run at and will chase the football in pursuit. Works very hard, fights and scraps for every inch and can work his way into the backfield toward the football, but fails to disengage consistently.

    Impression: Plays hard and at least has the explosion to be a threat as a pass rusher at the next level. However, his ability to develop a counter move and become more than a one-trick pony off the edge is key. Looks more like a nickel rusher or potential 3-4 OLB prospect who I would take a shot on because of his initial burst and overall work rate on the field.




     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Belichick has a clear history of drafting for need with his first pick and really his second pick too.  By need, I mean he is drafting to fill a voided spot or a spot that he knows will be voided within one year.  I'm not talking about voided back-up spots, we're talking starters. 2010 Devin McCourty - Immediate Starter .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER .  No projected starting CB opposite Bodden. 2009 Patrick Chung - Started 2nd year.   BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  Sanders and Meriweather were the only safeties returning from the 2008 team.  McGowan was signed after the draft.  Sanders was never expected to be a full-time starter.  In fact if you look at the past two years Sanders has started just 14 games out of the 29 in which he dressed. 2008 Jarrod Mayo - Immediate Starter .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  2007 was Seau's last full year although he came back for 4 games in 2008 and 7 games in 2009.  2008 was Bruschi's last year. 2007 Brandon Meriweather - Started 2nd year .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  2007 was Harrison's last year. 2006 Lawrence Maroney - Started 6 games 2nd year , was projected to start after Dillon left at the end of 2006 but started just 14 games in his 4 years. 2005 Logan Mankins - Immediate Starter.   BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  2004 was Joe Andruzzi's last season. 2004 Vince Wilfork - Immediate Starter .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  Ted Washington left after the 2003 season 2003 Ty Warren - Started 2nd year .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  2003 was final year for both Anthony Pleasant and Bobby Hamilton. 2002 Daniel Graham - Immediate Starter for half the games he dressed .  BIG HOLE ON ROSTER.  The last year for Rod Rutlidge and Jermaine Wiggins was 2001.  Christian Fauria was signed before the draft but he was not known for blocking. 2001 Richard Seymour - Immediate Starter .  So what can we learn from this?  The big holes on the roster are clearly OT and OG based on the status of Light and Mankins.  Looking after 2011, Koppen and Connolly become free agents.  Kaczur's value has deteriorated given his back and salary.  So, there is only one projected starter on the OL past 2011 (Vollmer).  BUT , and this is a big BUT ; BB doesn't typically draft OL in the first round.  The only year he did it (Mankins) was when he didn't have a 2nd rounder and had a starting OG leaving (Andruzzi).  I expect BB will load up with OL talent in the 2nd and 3rd round. About 80% of people posting on here want to address Defense first either DL or OLB.  In terms of roster stability, DL is pretty stable with the return of Warren with 8 key players signed at least through 2012.  As for OLB, Banta-Cain and Cunningham are signed through at least 2012 with Ninkovich set to become a free agent after 2011.  Most posters here cite the lack of pass rush as their #1 reason for addressing DL and OLB.  However, the Pats were 14th in the NFL with 36 sacks last year.  7 of the teams ahead of them in sacks failed to make the play-offs.  35 of the 36 sacks came from the front 7.  Besides getting pressure on the QB, stopping the run is the other key goal of the front 7.  The Pats were 11th against the rush with 5 non play-off teams finishing ahead of them.  Guys, the weakness of our defense isn't the front 7.  It is the secondary.  The Pats were 30th against the pass.  Teams beat us by passing much more often than running.  I don't care that we sent two DBs to the Pro Bowl, we couldn't stop the 2nd and 3rd WR last year.  Getting Bodden back will be a huge help as will getting Warren back. If there is going to be a big surprise in this draft it will be trading up to get Amukamara.  If he's there at 10, I would not be shocked to see us trading up with WAS for him.
    Posted by Faucetman



    "2006 Lawrence Maroney -Started 6 games 2nd year, was projected to start after Dillon left at the end of 2006 but started just 14 games in his 4 years"

    killled me that year why he didnt take dixon.


    re above, my analysis is different.
    i dont care how many sacks, we didnt get consistent pressure. any nfl team that lets the qb sit there the way we do is gonna get beat whether we have prince or peterson, in my opinion.

    2 theories, 2 ways to address problem. i just dont think the secondary alone shut down or no will get us off the field or stop the long drives.
    quarterbacks can extend plays virtually as long as they want or need to to find a receiver.

    and yeah, of course we do not have good de's to cover a good 3rd or 4th receiver. but it wont work in that direction, addressing that first.
    after getting consistent pressure of the qb in the front 7 (sacks or no) then we can get even better on defense with better db's.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    bunting gives us jordan, watkins ayers at the standard positions. not terrible to me.
    he has ayers rated better than i did. 18th rated player in the draft (watt 27th by comparison)

    can be coached up possibly to star, but dont think hes an impact player above average esp for our reushg olb.

    i also dont think jordan makes it to 17.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Low, I did a quick look at NYJ and BAL and they both show a drop. However, NWE's drop has been most dramatic. NYJ 2010 - 41 2009 - 53 2008 - 39 2007 - 57 2006 - 67 BAL 2010 - 38 2009 - 60 2008 - 53 2007 - 86 2006 - 107
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]


    That would be something to what I would have expected without looking into it as you have done. The league change and NE's slightly worse with a drastic turnover on D.

    Interesting to see some facts, thanks for taking time to look those up.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I wonder how much the Steelers would give up to draft the other Pouncey?  I don't think he'll last to #31.

    There are alot of options that the Pats have this year (just like any other year).  Alot of other teams will be looking to score a QB and I bet they'll trade down once again.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Great discussion guys.  Clearly, when you are 32nd in the league getting off the field on 3rd down you need to get more pressure on the QB and cover better.  We also need to give oppossing offenses more negative plays which will set up longer and harder 3rd downs to convert.  Can we all agree on that?  Now clearly Warren and Bodden coming back will make a difference.  How much of a difference, I don't know. 

    brdbreu, I like Bunting's projections; Jordan, Watkins, Ayers.  I'm not completely sold on Ayers nor do I think he makes it to 32.  I could see BAL taking him at 26.  I like Reed better if he makes it past GB.  Before I saw your post I was thinking about the notion that we need to get a stud on the DL at 17, then get some OL types in the 2nd round.  I don't see any CB that would be there from 17-33, so that's out.  The only DE conversion type I think we should even consider at 17 is Ryan Kerrigan.  All the others have either character or medical issues or both.  But I strongly believe that unless SD trades ahead of us, either Watt or Jordan will be there at 17.

    So my plan would be this, in order of who's available.

    #17

    a)  DE JJ Watt 6-5.3, 290, 4.84.  The perfect 5 technique.  Big, long and strong at the point of attack.  Fast for his size, Watt will get you 5-6 sacks and 6-8 batted balls plus create some negative plays and forced fumbles in the backfield.  But BB hates his agent and he's the least likely to make it here.

    b)  DE Cam Jordan, 6-4.1, 287, 4.78.  Has played the 5 technique.  Needs to add a few lbs but his pass rush ability is better than Watts.  He won't bat as many balls but he will get after the QB better.

    c)  OT Gabe Carimi, 6.7.0, 314, 5.18.  Solves our biggest question mark heading into the draft, the potential loss of Matt Light.  This pick allows us to let Light go saving $6-7MM.  This pick potentially also allows us to cut Kaczur too saving another $3.5MM.  The $10MM in savings could be used to extend Mankins and go after a prize free agent.  I think Carimi is a natural RT and a mauler but can play, obviously, on the left side so he gives great value.

    d)  OG Mike Pouncey, 6.4.2, 303, 5.12.  His brother was selected 18th overall and made the Pro Bowl as a C his rookie year.  Twin Mike projects better to RG and byall accounts is very similar in size and talent.  Any player you can get at 17 that makes the Pro Bowl as a rookie is a sound pick.  If Mankins holds out, Pouncey takes over at RG and Connolly at LG.  If Mankins plays the whole season, Pouncey beats out Connolly at RG then perhaps takes over at Center in 2012.

    e)  Trade back

    f)  OLB Ryan Kerrigan 6-3.7, 267, 4.67.  Potentially solves our biggest defensive need, rush OLB.  Could be a liability in the passing game but he will upgrade Ninkovich on the strong side and provide a steady pass rush.  Teams will have to account for him.

    Depending who we get at 17 and who's on the board at 28 will dictate if we trade this pick back. 

    Option #1 for Pick 28  (If we get Jordan or Watt at 17):

    a)  Any of the remaining OTs, Castonzo, Solder, Sherrod.  The same argument as for Carimi, frees up money to sign Mankins and add a marquis free agent.

    b)  OG Danny Watkins- This assumes all OTs are gone.  Watkins does not get past PIT at 31 so no room to move down.  He's a plug and play LG who can step in for Mankins or Connolly and give you emergency help at OT.

    c)  trade back- the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin.

    d)  OLB Brooks Reed- see Kerrigan above.

    Option #2 for Pick 28  (If we don't get Jordan or Watt at 17):

    a)  DE Cameron Heyward 6-5.0, 294, 4.95.  Great character guy, perfect 5 technique size.  I don't like Wilkerson and Taylor is a NT

    b)  trade back- the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin.

    c)  OLB Brooks Reed- see Kerrigan above.

    Option #3 for Pick 28  (If we get Kerrigan at 17).

    a)  DE Cameron Heyward 6-5.0, 294, 4.95.  Great character guy, perfect 5 technique size.  I don't like Wilkerson and Taylor is a NT.

    b)  Any of the remaining OTs.

    c)  OG Danny Watkins- This assumes all OTs are gone.  Watkins does not get past PIT at 31 so no room to move down.  He's a plug and play LG who can step in for Mankins or Connolly and give you emergency help at OT.

    d)  trade back- the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin.

    e)  OLB Brooks Reed- see Kerrigan above.

    I bet the Pats have played out various scenarios like this and they seldom fail to execute their plan.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    My latest idea.

    17.  DE Cam Jordan

    28.  Traded to SD for Picks 50/61
    33.  Traded to TEN for 39 and 2012 3rd.

    39.  CB/FS Aaron Williams
    50.  C/G Stefen Wisniewski
    60.  OT Orlando Franklin

    61.  Traded for 2012 2nd to a bad team and 2011 6th.

    74.   OLB Dontay Moch
    92.   RB Jordan Todman

    125.  Traded for 2012 4th and 2011 7th.

    159.  WR Denarius Moore
    193.  SS Shiloh Keo
    6th.   RB Mario Fannin
    7th.   CB Kendric Burney

    In summary:

    2012 2nd
    2012 3rd
    2012 4th
    17.  DE Cam Jordan
    39.  CB/FS Aaron Williams
    50.  C/G Stefen Wisniewski
    60.  OT Orlando Franklin
    74.   OLB Dontay Moch
    92.   RB Jordan Todman
    159.  WR Denarius Moore
    193.  SS Shiloh Keo
    6th.   RB Mario Fannin
    7th.   CB Kendric Burney

    We entered the draft with 9 picks but made 10 selections and picked up extra picks in rounds 2-4 for 2012. 

    I picked up an OT and C/G type in the 2nd round in keeping with BB's philosophy of taking decent, not elite, OL types between 32-64 and coaching them up.  These picks allow us to let Light walk and cut Kaczur thereby freeing up money to finally extend and keep Mankins happy.  We can also land a stud F/A once the lock out ends.

    We landed Cam Jordan, the best 5 technique in rushing the passer, a huge area of weakness. 

    While I didn't land us a blue chipper DE conversion player I did take a freakishly fast DE/OLB type in Dontay Moch who is Miller - Lite.  With a better DL in front of him and using him situationally in passing downs Moch with a head start should be able to come clean often using his CB speed to get after the passer.  The threat of him on the field will cause opposing offenses to scheme for him bringing over a TE or leaving a RB in to pick him up. 

    I got us 3 DBs.  With Bodden coming back the need for a guy to take away the area outside the numbers is met so I focused on taking 2 CBs that I feel are better suited as FS and everyone's favorite SS in Keo.  One of these 3 should emerge to take over for Meriweather in 2012.

    I love the pair of RBs we got.  Todman is a burner as is Fanin but Fanin is just a bigger version.  Both guys can catch.  Todman can back up Woodhead and Fanin takes over the FB role that Sammy Morris once had.

    We are pretty set at WR with Price waiting in the wings to potentially challenge Tate.  But I took a tall WR with decent speed for good measure.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Alright, I need to start posting here again and help add to the discussion a bit. The Draft is the favorite time of the year and I don't even add comments to a Patriots draft thread haha. All I do is read. But I have been doing work on the side. I have my top 32 players overall, my positional rankings, top 75 patriots targets and new full 2 round mock (with all patriots picks). Here they are, I will try and make this look as neat and easy to read as possible.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Top 32 Players Overall

    1.       AJ Green, WR, Georgia

    2.       Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU

    3.       Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama

    4.       Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M

    5.       Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina

    6.       Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska

    7.       JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin

    8.       Cameron Jordan, DE, California

    9.       Julio Jones, WR, Alabama

    10.   Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama

    11.   Tyron Smith, OT, USC

    12.   Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida

    13.   Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri

    14.   Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue

    15.   Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn

    16.   Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College

    17.   Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin

    18.   Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame

    19.   Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois

    20.   Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio State

    21.   Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor

    22.   Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL)

    23.   Martez Wilson, ILB, Illinois

    24.   Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri

    25.   Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky

    26.   Bruce Carter, OLB, North Carolina

    27.   Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona

    28.   Andy Dalton, QB, TCU

    29.   Rahim Moore, S, UCLA

    30.   Aaron Williams, S, Texas

    31.   Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech

    32.   Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Postional Rankings

    QB

    1.       Blaine Gabbert, Missouri

    2.       Andy Dalton, TCU

    3.       Greg McElroy, Alabama

    4.       Christian Ponder, Florida State

    5.       Cameron Newton, Auburn

      

    RB          

    1.       Mark Ingram, Alabama

    2.       Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech

    3.       Mikel LeShoure, Illinois

    4.       Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State

    5.       Jordan Todman, Connecticut

    WR

    1.       AJ Green, Georgia

    2.       Julio Jones, Alabama

    3.       Randall Cobb, Kentucky

    4.       Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)

    5.       Jerel Jernigan, Troy

    TE

    1.       Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame

    2.       Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin

    3.       DJ Williams, Arkansas

    4.       Jordan Cameron, USC

    5.       Luke Stocker, Tennessee

    OT

    1.       Tyron Smith, Southern California

    2.       Anthony Castonzo, Boston College

    3.       Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin

    4.       Ben Ijalana, Villanova

    5.       Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State

     

    Interior-OL

    1.       Mike Pouncey, Florida

    2.       Danny Watkins, Baylor

    3.       Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State

    4.       Rodney Hudson, Florida State

    5.       John Moffitt, Wisconsin

    4-3 DE

    1.       Robert Quinn, North Carolina

    2.       Cameron Jordan, California

    3.       Aldon Smith, Missouri

    4.       Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue

    5.       Da’Quan Bowers, Clemson

    3-4 DE

    1.       Marcell Dareus, Alabama

    2.       JJ Watt, Wisconsin

    3.       Cameron Jordan, California

    4.       Cameron Heyward, Ohio State

    5.       Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple

    DT

    1.       Marcell Dareus, Alabama

    2.       Nick Fairley, Auburn

    3.       Corey Liuget, Illinois

    4.       Marvin Austin, North Carolina

    5.       Phil Taylor, Baylor

    4-3 OLB

    1.       Bruce Carter, North Carolina

    2.       Akeem Ayers, UCLA

    3.       Mason Foster, Washington

    4.       Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut

    5.       Dontay Moch, Nevada

    3-4 OLB

    1.       Von Miller, Texas A&M

    2.       Robert Quinn, North Carolina

    3.       Aldon Smith, Missouri

    4.       Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue

    5.       Brooks Reed, Arizona

    ILB

    1.       Martez Wilson, Illinois

    2.       Mark Herzlich, Boston College

    3.       Greg Jones, Michigan State

    4.       Casey Matthews, Oregon

    5.       Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina

     

    CB

    1.       Patrick Peterson, LSU

    2.       Prince Amukamara, Nebraska

    3.       Brandon Harris, Miami (FL)

    4.       Jimmy Smith, Colorado

    5.       Johnny Patrick, Louisville

     

    S

    1.       Rahim Moore, UCLA

    2.       Aaron Williams, Texas

    3.       Ahmad Black, Florida

    4.       Shiloh Keo, Idado

    5.       Richard Sherman, Stanford

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Top 75 Patriots Targets

    QB Andy Dalton

    QB Greg McElroy

    QB Ricky Stanzi

     

    RB Mark Ingram

    RB Ryan Williams

    RB Mikel LeShoure

    RB Kendall Hunter

    RB Jordan Todman

    RB Taiwan Jones

     

    WR AJ Green

    WR Julio Jones

    WR Randall Cobb

    WR Jerrel Jernigan

    WR Edmond Gates

    WR Greg Little

    WR Austin Pettis

    WR Jeremy Kerley

    WR Dane Sanzenbacher

     

    TE Kyle Rudolph

     

    OT Anthony Castonzo

    OT Tyron Smith

    OT Gabe Carimi

    OT Ben Ijalana

    OT Marcus Gilbert

     

    OG Mike Pouncey

    OG Danny Watkins

    OG Rodney Hudson

    OG Clint Boling

    OG James Carpenter

    OG John Moffitt

    OG Andrew Jackson

     

    OC Stefen Wisniewski

    OC Tim Barnes

    OC Jake Kirkpatrick

      

    DE/LB Robert Quinn

    DE/LB Aldon Smith

    DE Cameron Jordan

    DE JJ Watt

    DE/LB Ryan Kerrigan

    DE Cameron Heyward

    DE/LB Brooks Reed

    DE/LB Allen Bailey

     

    DT Marcell Dareus
    DT Corey Liuget

    DT Muhammed Wilkerson
    DT Christian Ballard
    DT Phil Taylor
    DT Marvin Austin
    DT Terrell McClain

     

    OLB Von Miller
    OLB Akeem Ayers
    OLB Bruce Carter
    OLB Mark Herzlich
    OLB Chris Carter
    ILB Martez Wilson

     

    CB Patrick Peterson
    CB Prince Amukamara
    CB Brandon Harris
    CB Johnny Patrick
    CB Curtis Brown

    CB Buster Skrine
    CB Ryan Jones
    CB Justin Rogers

    S Aaron Williams
    S Rahim Moore
    S Ahmad Black
    CB/S Richard Sherman
    S Joe Lefeged
    S Shiloh Keo

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    3 Trades:

    Atlanta Trades #27 --- Buffalo Trades #34, #68

    New England Trades #28 --- San Diego Trades #50, #61

    New England Trades #33 --- Jacksonville Trades #49, #80

    Round 1

    1.       Carolina Panthers – Cameron Newton, QB, Auburn

    2.       Denver Broncos – Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama

    3.       Buffalo Bills – Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M

    4.       Cincinnati Bengals –  Julio Jones, WR, Alabama

    5.       Arizona Cardinals – Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri

    6.       Cleveland Browns – AJ Green, WR, Georgia

    7.       San Francisco 49ers – Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU

    8.       Tennessee Titans – Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn

    9.       Dallas Cowboys – Tyron Smith, OT, USC

    10.   Washington Redskins – Robert Quinn, LB, North Carolina

    11.   Houston Texans – Ryan Kerrigan, LB, Purdue

    12.   Minnesota Vikings – Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson

    13.   Detroit Lions – Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska

    14.   St. Louis Rams – Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri

    15.   Miami Dolphins – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas

    16.   Jacksonville Jaguars – JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin

    17.   New England Patriots – Cameron Jordan, DE, California

    18.   San Diego Chargers – Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA

    19.   New York Giants – Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida

    20.   Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa

    21.   Kansas City Chiefs – Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin

    22.   Indianapolis Colts – Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College

    23.   Philadelphia Eagles – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado

    24.   New Orleans Saints – Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple

    25.   Seattle Seahawks – Jake Locker, QB, Washington

    26.   Baltimore Ravens – Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado

    27.   Buffalo Bills (f/ATL)  – Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State

    28.   San Diego Chargers (f/NE)   Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State

    29.   Chicago Bears – Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor

    30.   New York Jets – Phil Taylor, NT, Baylor

    31.   Pittsburgh Steelers – Aaron Williams, CB/S, Texas

    Round 2

    1.    Jacksonville Jaguars (f/NE) – Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
    2.    Atlanta Falcons (f/BUF) – Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame
    3.    Cincinnati Bengals – Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
    4.    Denver Broncos – Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
    5.    Cleveland Browns – Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois
    6.    Arizona Cardinals – Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL)
    7.    Tennessee Titans – Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois
    8.    Dallas Cowboys – Rahim Moore, S, UCLA
    9.    Washington Redskins – Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
    10.  Houston Texans – Ras-I Dowling, CB/S, Virginia Tech
    11.  Minnesota Vikings – Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova
    12.  Detroit Lions – Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State
    13.  San Francisco 49ers – Justin Houston, DE/LB, Georgia
    14.  Denver Broncos – Christian Ballard, DT, Iowa
    15.  St. Louis Rams – Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
    16.  Oakland Raiders – Stefen Wisniewski, OG, Penn State
    17.  New England Patriots (f/JAC) – Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky
    18.  New England Patriots (f/SD) – Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina
    19.  Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech
    20.  New York Giants – Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
    21.  Indianapolis Colts – Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State
    22.  Philadelphia Eagles – Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
    23.  Kansas City Chiefs – Kenrick Ellis, NT, Hampton
    24.  New Orleans Saints – Mason Foster, LB, Washington
    25.  Seattle Seahawks – Orlando Franklin, OT, Miami (FL)
    26.  Baltimore Ravens – Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami (FL)
    27.  Atlanta Falcons – Jabaal Sheard, DE, Pittsburgh
    28.  New England Patriots – Rodney Hudson, OG/C, Florida State
    29.  New England Patriots (f/SD) – Clint Boling, OG, Georgia
    30.  Chicago Bears – Jarvis Jenkins, DT, Clemson

    31.   Pittsburgh Steelers – Marcus Cannon, OG, TCU

    32.   Green Bay Packers – Brandon Burton, CB, Utah


    Patriots Picks:
    #17 -- DE Cameon Jordan, California
    #49 -- WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky
    #50 -- OLB Bruce Carter, North Carolina
    #60 -- OG/C Rodney Hudson, Florida State
    #61 -- OG Clint Boling, Georgia
    #74 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd, 2011 5th Round Pick
    #80 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd
    #92 -- RB Jordan Todman, Connecticut
    4th -- OLB Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh
    5th -- CB Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanoga
    5th -- S Ahmad Black, Florida
    6th -- QB Greg McElroy, Alabama

    This draft would be a perfect draft for the Patriots and one that seems extremely realsitic with the Patriots with their tendencies, and such. Includes 4 Trades for them, 2 of them trades down, and 2 of them into next year. Player wise I think they get great value. I think Jordan can add to the defense a ton at 17. He can play 5 tech and maybe even stand up in a 2 point stance at some point, in nickel he can kick inside and provide nickel pass rush. Cobb, I think just has Patriot written all over him with ability to help in multiple areas and also be a great slot WR and maybe even play outside the numbers. Bruce Carter has special ability when he plays, and would've been a top 15 talent if not for the injury. Ring any bells with a Brandon Tate type pick? Same school, same injury, stock drop cause of injury. Tate has been solid value for a 4th round pick, and I think that Carter can be real special off the edge for the Pats, he may take a while to get fully healthy, but when he does, he will be good. Then we go with 2 interior lineman. I am thinking that Light will be back on a 2-3 year deal and the fact no good enough OT were available where we picked, trading down was a better option. So we get 2 interior offensive lineman, and the eventual replacment to Koppen at C, for 10 years. Boling will be a RG, and a starter for a good deal of time, providing good 2nd round value. Whoever plays better in camp, will get the job for the year, and next year both will plug in at C and G. Then we trade 2 3rds for 2 2nd round picks next year, and a 5th this year. Giving us 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds again next year. then we go to Jordan Todman at RB. He will be a nice compliment to our current RB's, who can go inside and outside the tackles, carry a load and also catch the ball out of the backfield. Then we go another injured DE/OLB conversion guy with Greg Romeus, who without injury also would've been a 1st round pick. He has good pass rushing ability, the size BB likes at OLB, and the ability to move in space a little bit. It would be strange picking 2 OLB that are both hurt but if we connect with both or even just 1, we should have a special bookend to team up with Cunningham, and a servicable backup. Then we go 2 secondary players, one who can help out on special teams at CB, and has elite quickness and speed and COD skills. I think he can eventually develop into a stud ST player along with a nice nickel CB at worst. Black continues to drop, but I continue to love the way he plays. He wouldn't need to play every down for us, and can get down on the slot and keep up with his quickness and COD skills, along with making a tackle on a RB, or blitzing. Last, we go with McElroy who is a personal favorite of mine, and would be the one guy I bet on the Patriots drafting in this whole draft. He just has Patriots written all over him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    What are your thoughts on drafting any D-Lineman?  Is it really a need?  We have alot of big names in Wilfork, G. Warren, and Stroud.  Ty Warren and Wright will be returning from IR and there are alot of younger guys in Brace, Deadrick, and Moore.

    I'm not sure that we should go in that direction at #17.  Unless BB is willing to switch to a 4-3 base, I don't really see the need.  For all of you who are saying that we need Jordan, Watt, or anyone else along the DE needs to take a look again.  That position is one of our strengths.

    There are only 2 great CB's this year(Peterson and Amukamara), only 2 great WRs (Green and Jones),  and a few OLBs who's Ht/Wt/speed combo fits our need at OLB (Quinn, Kerrigan, and A. Smith).  These are the players who we should be looking at and if we need to trade up to get them, so be it.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]What are your thoughts on drafting any D-Lineman?  Is it really a need?  We have alot of big names in Wilfork, G. Warren, and Stroud.  Ty Warren and Wright will be returning from IR and there are alot of younger guys in Brace, Deadrick, and Moore. I'm not sure that we should go in that direction at #17.  Unless BB is willing to switch to a 4-3 base, I don't really see the need.  For all of you who are saying that we need Jordan, Watt, or anyone else along the DE needs to take a look again.  That position is one of our strengths. There are only 2 great CB's this year(Peterson and Amukamara), only 2 great WRs (Green and Jones),  and a few OLBs who's Ht/Wt/speed combo fits our need at OLB (Quinn, Kerrigan, and A. Smith).  These are the players who we should be looking at and if we need to trade up to get them, so be it.  
    Posted by Army2LT[/QUOTE]

    The problem is none of them really pressure the QB, we need someone that can do that. I hope we get someone at both DE and OLB that can so that as rookies they together make a difference.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    The question of a LB in pass coverage....How much does a LB drift into coverage??
    and is that part of his games as important as getting to the QB or at least supplying pressure...IE Kerrigan or Quinn....

    The old school thinking was before the NFL became as passng league
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sydpat. Show sydpat's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

     Faucetman

    Like Army's point if we are all not sure who to take ...........why not move up and get someone who will make a MASSIVE difference.

    National Football Post has an idea to trade with Arizona and get their 5th and 69th for our 28th, 33rd and 74th.

    Guess who?   PATRICK  PETERSON. Just think what he brings to the table knowing our secondary by figures and facts is still our weakest area. NFP gives really impressive arguments.

    You are still deliberating over DE, OL, OLB etc, etc. Draft is next week.

    WE will never have a better chance to get a player to make that much of a difference. Again if and when free agency comes back think of all the players that may be available.

    We CANNOT guess with our top picks and having read every discussion on this post I feel we need to give this serious thought.

    What about you?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE] Faucetman Like Army's point if we are all not sure who to take ...........why not move up and get someone who will make a MASSIVE difference. National Football Post has an idea to trade with Arizona and get their 5th and 69th for our 28th, 33rd and 74th. Guess who?   PATRICK  PETERSON. Just think what he brings to the table knowing our secondary by figures and facts is still our weakest area. NFP gives really impressive arguments. You are still deliberating over DE, OL, OLB etc, etc. Draft is next week. WE will never have a better chance to get a player to make that much of a difference. Again if and when free agency comes back think of all the players that may be available. We CANNOT guess with our top picks and having read every discussion on this post I feel we need to give this serious thought. What about you?
    Posted by sydpat[/QUOTE]

    "WE will never have a better chance to get a player to make that much of a difference."

    agreed

    thats why i would like to get quinn ideally or smith

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Alright, I need to start posting here again and help add to the discussion a bit. The Draft is the favorite time of the year and I don't even add comments to a Patriots draft thread haha. All I do is read. But I have been doing work on the side. I have my top 32 players overall, my positional rankings, top 75 patriots targets and new full 2 round mock (with all patriots picks). Here they are, I will try and make this look as neat and easy to read as possible. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top 32 Players Overall 1.        AJ Green, WR, Georgia 2.        Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU 3.        Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama 4.        Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M 5.        Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina 6.        Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska 7.        JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin 8.        Cameron Jordan, DE, California 9.        Julio Jones, WR, Alabama 10.    Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama 11.    Tyron Smith, OT, USC 12.    Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida 13.    Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri 14.    Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue 15.    Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn 16.    Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College 17.    Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin 18.    Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame 19.    Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois 20.    Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio State 21.    Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor 22.    Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL) 23.    Martez Wilson, ILB, Illinois 24.    Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri 25.    Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky 26.    Bruce Carter, OLB, North Carolina 27.    Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona 28.    Andy Dalton, QB, TCU 29.    Rahim Moore, S, UCLA 30.    Aaron Williams, S, Texas 31.    Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech 32.    Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postional Rankings QB 1.        Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 2.        Andy Dalton, TCU 3.        Greg McElroy, Alabama 4.        Christian Ponder, Florida State 5.        Cameron Newton, Auburn     RB            1.        Mark Ingram, Alabama 2.        Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 3.        Mikel LeShoure, Illinois 4.        Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State 5.        Jordan Todman, Connecticut WR 1.        AJ Green, Georgia 2.        Julio Jones, Alabama 3.        Randall Cobb, Kentucky 4.        Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL) 5.        Jerel Jernigan, Troy TE 1.        Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2.        Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3.        DJ Williams, Arkansas 4.        Jordan Cameron, USC 5.        Luke Stocker, Tennessee OT 1.        Tyron Smith, Southern California 2.        Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 3.        Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 4.        Ben Ijalana, Villanova 5.        Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State   Interior-OL 1.        Mike Pouncey, Florida 2.        Danny Watkins, Baylor 3.        Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State 4.        Rodney Hudson, Florida State 5.        John Moffitt, Wisconsin 4-3 DE 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Cameron Jordan, California 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Da’Quan Bowers, Clemson 3-4 DE 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 3.        Cameron Jordan, California 4.        Cameron Heyward, Ohio State 5.        Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple DT 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Nick Fairley, Auburn 3.        Corey Liuget, Illinois 4.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 5.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 4-3 OLB 1.        Bruce Carter, North Carolina 2.        Akeem Ayers, UCLA 3.        Mason Foster, Washington 4.        Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut 5.        Dontay Moch, Nevada 3-4 OLB 1.        Von Miller, Texas A&M 2.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Brooks Reed, Arizona ILB 1.        Martez Wilson, Illinois 2.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 3.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 4.        Casey Matthews, Oregon 5.        Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina   CB 1.        Patrick Peterson, LSU 2.        Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3.        Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) 4.        Jimmy Smith, Colorado 5.        Johnny Patrick, Louisville   S 1.        Rahim Moore, UCLA 2.        Aaron Williams, Texas 3.        Ahmad Black, Florida 4.        Shiloh Keo, Idado 5.        Richard Sherman, Stanford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Top 75 Patriots Targets QB Andy Dalton QB Greg McElroy QB Ricky Stanzi   RB Mark Ingram RB Ryan Williams RB Mikel LeShoure RB Kendall Hunter RB Jordan Todman RB Taiwan Jones   WR AJ Green WR Julio Jones WR Randall Cobb WR Jerrel Jernigan WR Edmond Gates WR Greg Little WR Austin Pettis WR Jeremy Kerley WR Dane Sanzenbacher   TE Kyle Rudolph   OT Anthony Castonzo OT Tyron Smith OT Gabe Carimi OT Ben Ijalana OT Marcus Gilbert   OG Mike Pouncey OG Danny Watkins OG Rodney Hudson OG Clint Boling OG James Carpenter OG John Moffitt OG Andrew Jackson   OC Stefen Wisniewski OC Tim Barnes OC Jake Kirkpatrick     DE/LB Robert Quinn DE/LB Aldon Smith DE Cameron Jordan DE JJ Watt DE/LB Ryan Kerrigan DE Cameron Heyward DE/LB Brooks Reed DE/LB Allen Bailey   DT Marcell Dareus DT Corey Liuget DT Muhammed Wilkerson DT Christian Ballard DT Phil Taylor DT Marvin Austin DT Terrell McClain   OLB Von Miller OLB Akeem Ayers OLB Bruce Carter OLB Mark Herzlich OLB Chris Carter ILB Martez Wilson   CB Patrick Peterson CB Prince Amukamara CB Brandon Harris CB Johnny Patrick CB Curtis Brown CB Buster Skrine CB Ryan Jones CB Justin Rogers S Aaron Williams S Rahim Moore S Ahmad Black CB/S Richard Sherman S Joe Lefeged S Shiloh Keo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 Trades: Atlanta Trades #27 --- Buffalo Trades #34, #68 New England Trades #28 --- San Diego Trades #50, #61 New England Trades #33 --- Jacksonville Trades #49, #80 Round 1 1.        Carolina Panthers – Cameron Newton, QB, Auburn 2.        Denver Broncos – Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama 3.        Buffalo Bills – Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M 4.        Cincinnati Bengals –   Julio Jones, WR, Alabama 5.        Arizona Cardinals – Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri 6.        Cleveland Browns – AJ Green, WR, Georgia 7.        San Francisco 49ers – Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU 8.        Tennessee Titans – Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn 9.        Dallas Cowboys – Tyron Smith, OT, USC 10.    Washington Redskins – Robert Quinn, LB, North Carolina 11.    Houston Texans – Ryan Kerrigan, LB, Purdue 12.    Minnesota Vikings – Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson 13.    Detroit Lions – Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska 14.    St. Louis Rams – Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri 15.    Miami Dolphins – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas 16.    Jacksonville Jaguars – JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin 17.    New England Patriots – Cameron Jordan, DE, California 18.    San Diego Chargers – Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA 19.    New York Giants – Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida 20.    Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa 21.    Kansas City Chiefs – Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin 22.    Indianapolis Colts – Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College 23.    Philadelphia Eagles – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado 24.    New Orleans Saints – Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple 25.    Seattle Seahawks – Jake Locker, QB, Washington 26.    Baltimore Ravens – Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado 27.    Buffalo Bills (f/ATL)   – Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State 28.    San Diego Chargers (f/NE)   –   Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State 29.    Chicago Bears – Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor 30.    New York Jets – Phil Taylor, NT, Baylor 31.    Pittsburgh Steelers – Aaron Williams, CB/S, Texas Round 2 1.     Jacksonville Jaguars (f/NE) – Andy Dalton, QB, TCU 2.     Atlanta Falcons (f/BUF) – Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame 3.     Cincinnati Bengals – Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina 4.     Denver Broncos – Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada 5.     Cleveland Browns – Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois 6.     Arizona Cardinals – Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL) 7.     Tennessee Titans – Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois 8.     Dallas Cowboys – Rahim Moore, S, UCLA 9.     Washington Redskins – Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama 10.   Houston Texans – Ras-I Dowling, CB/S, Virginia Tech 11.   Minnesota Vikings – Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova 12.   Detroit Lions – Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State 13.   San Francisco 49ers – Justin Houston, DE/LB, Georgia 14.   Denver Broncos – Christian Ballard, DT, Iowa 15.   St. Louis Rams – Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh 16.   Oakland Raiders – Stefen Wisniewski, OG, Penn State 17.   New England Patriots (f/JAC) – Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky 18.   New England Patriots (f/SD) – Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina 19.   Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech 20.   New York Giants – Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois 21.   Indianapolis Colts – Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State 22.   Philadelphia Eagles – Curtis Brown, CB, Texas 23.   Kansas City Chiefs – Kenrick Ellis, NT, Hampton 24.   New Orleans Saints – Mason Foster, LB, Washington 25.   Seattle Seahawks – Orlando Franklin, OT, Miami (FL) 26.   Baltimore Ravens – Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami (FL) 27.   Atlanta Falcons – Jabaal Sheard, DE, Pittsburgh 28.   New England Patriots – Rodney Hudson, OG/C, Florida State 29.   New England Patriots (f/SD) – Clint Boling, OG, Georgia 30.   Chicago Bears – Jarvis Jenkins, DT, Clemson 31.    Pittsburgh Steelers – Marcus Cannon, OG, TCU 32.    Green Bay Packers – Brandon Burton, CB, Utah Patriots Picks: #17 -- DE Cameon Jordan, California #49 -- WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky #50 -- OLB Bruce Carter, North Carolina #60 -- OG/C Rodney Hudson, Florida State #61 -- OG Clint Boling, Georgia #74 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd, 2011 5th Round Pick #80 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd #92 -- RB Jordan Todman, Connecticut 4th -- OLB Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh 5th -- CB Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanoga 5th -- S Ahmad Black, Florida 6th -- QB Greg McElroy, Alabama This draft would be a perfect draft for the Patriots and one that seems extremely realsitic with the Patriots with their tendencies, and such. Includes 4 Trades for them, 2 of them trades down, and 2 of them into next year. Player wise I think they get great value. I think Jordan can add to the defense a ton at 17. He can play 5 tech and maybe even stand up in a 2 point stance at some point, in nickel he can kick inside and provide nickel pass rush. Cobb, I think just has Patriot written all over him with ability to help in multiple areas and also be a great slot WR and maybe even play outside the numbers. Bruce Carter has special ability when he plays, and would've been a top 15 talent if not for the injury. Ring any bells with a Brandon Tate type pick? Same school, same injury, stock drop cause of injury. Tate has been solid value for a 4th round pick, and I think that Carter can be real special off the edge for the Pats, he may take a while to get fully healthy, but when he does, he will be good. Then we go with 2 interior lineman. I am thinking that Light will be back on a 2-3 year deal and the fact no good enough OT were available where we picked, trading down was a better option. So we get 2 interior offensive lineman, and the eventual replacment to Koppen at C, for 10 years. Boling will be a RG, and a starter for a good deal of time, providing good 2nd round value. Whoever plays better in camp, will get the job for the year, and next year both will plug in at C and G. Then we trade 2 3rds for 2 2nd round picks next year, and a 5th this year. Giving us 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds again next year. then we go to Jordan Todman at RB. He will be a nice compliment to our current RB's, who can go inside and outside the tackles, carry a load and also catch the ball out of the backfield. Then we go another injured DE/OLB conversion guy with Greg Romeus, who without injury also would've been a 1st round pick. He has good pass rushing ability, the size BB likes at OLB, and the ability to move in space a little bit. It would be strange picking 2 OLB that are both hurt but if we connect with both or even just 1, we should have a special bookend to team up with Cunningham, and a servicable backup. Then we go 2 secondary players, one who can help out on special teams at CB, and has elite quickness and speed and COD skills. I think he can eventually develop into a stud ST player along with a nice nickel CB at worst. Black continues to drop, but I continue to love the way he plays. He wouldn't need to play every down for us, and can get down on the slot and keep up with his quickness and COD skills, along with making a tackle on a RB, or blitzing. Last, we go with McElroy who is a personal favorite of mine, and would be the one guy I bet on the Patriots drafting in this whole draft. He just has Patriots written all over him.
    Posted by sportslover21



    neat and easy to read (and understand), that is an understatement!
    thanks.

    if the draft went like that 1-9 that would be my ideal so we can trade to 10 and get quinn.

    re your draft, i am not as knowledgeable with all the players later in the draft as many of you are. i have not seen nearly as much college football nor do i have the time to do the viewing and analysis many of you do (so i couldnt come up with a complete draft like this and it will take me some time to analyze). 
    2 injured olb's. if they are out a year, i would nix that; unless it came along with the player we need most in thsi draft a pss rushing olb all star or all pro. fa is a gamble and shouldnt be relied upon. we also rarely spend big money on an elite, or very good player in fa. 

    jordan is who i have my sites set on at de at the moment.
    but for me the draft begins and ends for us in taking the best player at our strongest position of need, pass rushing olb.

    then de, o line and on to the rest with whatever picks we have left.
    i would trade into this year instead of out of it (maybe one pick if there is a specific plan for use, but better to give them the experience this year so by the playoffs we've got 3 shots the next 3 years. tom brady does not come around every day, never mind us being able to have him on our team.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Great discussion guys.  Clearly, when you are 32nd in the league getting off the field on 3rd down you need to get more pressure on the QB and cover better.  We also need to give oppossing offenses more negative plays which will set up longer and harder 3rd downs to convert.  Can we all agree on that?  Now clearly Warren and Bodden coming back will make a difference.  How much of a difference, I don't know.  brdbreu, I like Bunting's projections; Jordan, Watkins, Ayers.  I'm not completely sold on Ayers nor do I think he makes it to 32.  I could see BAL taking him at 26.  I like Reed better if he makes it past GB.  Before I saw your post I was thinking about the notion that we need to get a stud on the DL at 17, then get some OL types in the 2nd round.  I don't see any CB that would be there from 17-33, so that's out.  The only DE conversion type I think we should even consider at 17 is Ryan Kerrigan.  All the others have either character or medical issues or both.  But I strongly believe that unless SD trades ahead of us, either Watt or Jordan will be there at 17. So my plan would be this, in order of who's available. #17 a)  DE JJ Watt 6-5.3, 290, 4.84.  The perfect 5 technique.  Big, long and strong at the point of attack.  Fast for his size, Watt will get you 5-6 sacks and 6-8 batted balls plus create some negative plays and forced fumbles in the backfield.  But BB hates his agent and he's the least likely to make it here. b)  DE Cam Jordan , 6-4.1, 287, 4.78.  Has played the 5 technique.  Needs to add a few lbs but his pass rush ability is better than Watts.  He won't bat as many balls but he will get after the QB better. c)  OT Gabe Carimi , 6.7.0, 314, 5.18.  Solves our biggest question mark heading into the draft, the potential loss of Matt Light.  This pick allows us to let Light go saving $6-7MM.  This pick potentially also allows us to cut Kaczur too saving another $3.5MM.  The $10MM in savings could be used to extend Mankins and go after a prize free agent.  I think Carimi is a natural RT and a mauler but can play, obviously, on the left side so he gives great value. d)  OG Mike Pouncey , 6.4.2, 303, 5.12.  His brother was selected 18th overall and made the Pro Bowl as a C his rookie year.  Twin Mike projects better to RG and byall accounts is very similar in size and talent.  Any player you can get at 17 that makes the Pro Bowl as a rookie is a sound pick.  If Mankins holds out, Pouncey takes over at RG and Connolly at LG.  If Mankins plays the whole season, Pouncey beats out Connolly at RG then perhaps takes over at Center in 2012. e)  Trade back f)  OLB Ryan Kerrigan 6-3.7, 267, 4.67.  Potentially solves our biggest defensive need, rush OLB.  Could be a liability in the passing game but he will upgrade Ninkovich on the strong side and provide a steady pass rush.  Teams will have to account for him. Depending who we get at 17 and who's on the board at 28 will dictate if we trade this pick back.  Option #1 for Pick 28  (If we get Jordan or Watt at 17): a)  Any of the remaining OTs, Castonzo, Solder, Sherrod .  The same argument as for Carimi, frees up money to sign Mankins and add a marquis free agent. b)  OG Danny Watkins - This assumes all OTs are gone.  Watkins does not get past PIT at 31 so no room to move down.  He's a plug and play LG who can step in for Mankins or Connolly and give you emergency help at OT. c)  trade back - the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin. d)  OLB Brooks Reed - see Kerrigan above. Option #2 for Pick 28  (If we don't get Jordan or Watt at 17): a)  DE Cameron Heyward 6-5.0, 294, 4.95.  Great character guy, perfect 5 technique size.  I don't like Wilkerson and Taylor is a NT b)  trade back - the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin. c)  OLB Brooks Reed - see Kerrigan above. Option #3 for Pick 28  (If we get Kerrigan at 17). a)  DE Cameron Heyward 6-5.0, 294, 4.95.  Great character guy, perfect 5 technique size.  I don't like Wilkerson and Taylor is a NT. b)  Any of the remaining OTs . c)  OG Danny Watkins - This assumes all OTs are gone.  Watkins does not get past PIT at 31 so no room to move down.  He's a plug and play LG who can step in for Mankins or Connolly and give you emergency help at OT. d)  trade back - the deal like SD for 50/61 is very appealing because we can address OL with 2 picks here like Wisniewski/Franklin. e)  OLB Brooks Reed - see Kerrigan above. I bet the Pats have played out various scenarios like this and they seldom fail to execute their plan.
    Posted by Faucetman

    "Clearly, when you are 32nd in the league getting off the field on 3rd down you need to get more pressure on the QB and cover better.  We also need to give oppossing offenses more negative plays which will set up longer and harder 3rd downs to convert.  Can we all agree on that?  "

    yes! i am in agrreement with you on more pressure, covering better, negative plays, and stopping offenses instead of seeing if they can get enough first downs to get in the end zone.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    i dont mean to sound like a broken record but the pats are going to end up trading their 28th and 33rd pick in this years draft for first rounders next year( think people rookie wage scale). 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]i dont mean to sound like a broken record but the pats are going to end up trading their 28th and 33rd pick in this years draft for first rounders next year( think people rookie wage scale). 
    Posted by isurfvb35[/ QUOTE]then I must be the broken CD...anyone who wants #28 or #33 is not positioning themselves for an OG....they want to draft their "franchise" quarterback...so do the Pats trade down seven picks from #28 or #33 for a 2011 3rd round pick?...does anyone else?...I don't think those picks are traded down...they are "sold" for 2012 1st rounders...and then negotiate from there.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]i dont mean to sound like a broken record but the pats are going to end up trading their 28th and 33rd pick in this years draft for first rounders next year( think people rookie wage scale). 
    Posted by isurfvb35[/QUOTE]

    no player will be signed from this years draft till a rookie cap iscale is done. they are already agreed to this (players and ownership).

    rookie cap is not an excuse to wait till next year.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    SPORTSLOVER : JUST WANTED TO SAY AWESOME JOB .
     I may not completely agree with everything you wrote , but it was an entertaining and well thought out piece.
     ( For those that missed it - One page back on 273 )

    Keep up the good work.


     Note : In your Mock ~You dont have GB picking anybody at #32 &
       Brandon Tate was actually a 2009 3rd Rndr (and the jurys still out on him )

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I've read a couple of times on here that we should trade pick 60 to a bad team for their 1st round pick next year.  Now I'm not saying it can't happen, but I kind of doubt it.  60 is a low 2nd rounder.  More importantly, if most of us on this board can name which teams are bad, don't you think that most of them realize they're bad too?  Why do we really think that they'll realistically trade a top 10 pick next year for 60 this year?  What player would be there that would really cause some team to make that trade?  Just not seeing it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]i dont mean to sound like a broken record but the pats are going to end up trading their 28th and 33rd pick in this years draft for first rounders next year( think people rookie wage scale). 
    Posted by isurfvb35[/QUOTE]


    What are the chances that there won't be a draft anymore?  Isn't that why they're saying "trade at your own risk with future picks?"  I think it's time we start using what we have.  No more trading for the future!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    With V. Wilfork experimenting at DE last year, I wonder if BB might do the same this year.  What if we did draft a player like Peae and place him at DE?  How could any line cope with the likes of Peae, Wilfork, and either of the Warrens.  All 3 would command double teams.
     
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