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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** :...  I was also very impressed with Phil Taylor.  The guy is big with very quick feet.  Maybe we take him at #28 to play nose and move wilfork to the DE?...
    Posted by TrustBill


    i was wondering about that too. particularly on third and long when they always send no more than the three DLmen to rush the pass, wouldn't having someone like that at nt and vw and perhaps brace or gerard warren (those are three massive and strong guys) on the other side be an effective way of collapsing the pocket in that situation?


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wazzu-wheatfarmer. Show Wazzu-wheatfarmer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : i doubt with his size that he can run block effectively in the nfl. taking that OT is basically announcing to everyone in the league "We have no intention of running the ball!!!"
    Posted by seattlepat70


    He is a definitally too small right now, but he should be able to get up around 300 lbs pretty easily.  nepatriotsdraft has him rated as the #1 OT and #8 prospect overall, and walterfootball has him ranked as the #2 OT.  He may not be a starter as a rookie, but given a year might turn out to be the best OT out of this year's class.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    If we look at the 40 times of the OL types BB has drafted in recent years we find that most of them are pretty fast, sub 5.30.  Welch was a 7th rounder and is no longer with the team.  These were the times I was able to find.

    Larson 5.15
    Welch 5.42
    Ohrnberger 5.22
    Bussey 5.23
    Wendell 5.28
    Hilliard 5.29
    Elgin 5.15
    Vollmer 5.12
    Kaczur 5.28
    Mankins 5.06

    It's a pretty constant theme.  BB likes his OL nimble and able to move, get out on screens, block downfield and even return kicks once in awhile, lol.  This is no secret.  We will have to wait to get times on some of these guys below from the Combine and Pro Days but this is the way it looks now.  I'm only including guys rated in the top 200.

    Acceptable

    OT Solder 4.89
    OT Smith 5.08
    OT Castonzo 5.06
    OT Sherrod 5.22
    OT Carimi 5.12
    OT Love 5.18
    OT Pinkston 5.12
    OT Gilbert 5.23
    OT Newton 5.06
    OT Hairston 5.18
    C/G Pouncey 5.29
    OG Watkins 5.17
    C/G Hudson 5.26
    OG Schilling 5.14
    OG Rackley 5.27
    C/G Moffitt 5.26
    OG Boling 5.16
    OG Ziemba 5.22
    OG Hurd 5.16
    OG Arkin 5.24
    C/G Wisniewski 5.16
    C O'Dowd 5.16
    C Barnes 5.14
    C Kirkpatrick 5.14
    C Fusco 5.24

    Unacceptable
    OT Cannon 5.34
    OT Barksdale 5.34
    OT Carpenter 5.36
    OT Brewer 5.36
    OG Franklin 5.30
    OG Ijalana 5.34
     
    Pouncey and Franklin on the borderline. 

    We have to see what Tyron Smith weighs at the Combine.  He's only 20 so he should be able to get up to 300 lbs by the start of next season because if he's over 300, he quickly becomes a very interesting prospect.  It's interesting that Smith has never played Left Tackle.  He was a RT at USC and everyone wants to anoint him the best or 2nd best LT prospect.  I currently have him 4th on my board and if he comes in at 285 I'll move Sherrod ahead of him.  Smith is a kid you want to sit a year, get him bulked up and matured a little.  He isn't someone I want on Brady's blind side on Day 1.

    If we decide to go RT and wait, although a bit short, I like Pinkston and Gilbert.  Gilbert could likely be had in the 4th or 5th but Pinkston will probably go late 2nd.  If we are going with a high pick I love Carimi at 28 as a RT.  He can play left but I just think he would be a beast on the right side and that Vollmer might be a bit better on the left side.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : He is a definitally too small right now, but he should be able to get up around 300 lbs pretty easily.  nepatriotsdraft has him rated as the #1 OT and #8 prospect overall, and walterfootball has him ranked as the #2 OT.  He may not be a starter as a rookie, but given a year might turn out to be the best OT out of this year's class.
    Posted by Wazzu-wheatfarmer


    you may be right. but he'll have to gain that weight pretty fast, as they need an OT who is really good at both protecting and run blocking NOW. light looks like he would be open to a discount. i just am not sure if he can hold up the entire year.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    For fun, I'm going to try a new mock without using the same players I usually take.

    17.  DE Ryan Kerrigan
    28.  DT Phil Taylor
    33.  OT Tyron Smith
    60.  RB Ryan Williams
    74.  OG Danny Watkins
    92.  OLB KJ Wright
    124. WR Jerrall Jernigan

    We put Kerrigan in Ninkovich's spot.  Now we have a pass rush.  If he can stand up and cover, so much the better but at first we use him situationally on passing downs.  Taylor has enough athleticism to play 34 DE and takes over in Seymour's old spot (of course we have to check into his past first).  Taylor was unblockable at the SrB game even with two OL blocking him.  On 43 set, he can stay on the field and we bring Kerrigan out on the edge.  Now we have a big push from the middle with a solid edge rusher with moves going against the RT.  I can only imagine Taylor next to Wilfork, the two of them will be collapsing pocket machines.  Tyron's weight causes him to slide out of the first round.  But the Pats will re-sign Light to a 1-2 year deal allowing Smith time to get up to size and learn our system.  He might beat Light out in his second year.  Ryan Williams should be more explosive than BJGE.  He slips this far because few teams need RBs and most know there will be good backs available into round 5.  At pick 60, the value is too great to not take him.

    Danny Watkins will be 27 but with a 4 year deal and 1 year as restricted, the Pats will get 5 solid years out of him before his contract comes up at 32.  He should be rated higher but his age causes him to drop.  He could end up being an All Pro within a couple of years.  KJ Wright is a guy I've mocked before.  I heard Mayock call him raw.  As a pass rusher, I agree, but as a player, he is far from raw.  He has correct size and speed you want and can chase ball carriers down.  I don't think he drops this far but if he does, it wouldn't hurt to take two OLBs to see if one or both stick.  Jerrel Jernigan is a short but solid and extremely fast WR.  He runs a 4.34 and could be the fastest player at the Combine.  He basically was the whole offense for Troy.  He projects in the slot and returns kicks but once he gets the ball in space, he is a threat to take it to the house. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Hey Gents,

    Two players that make me think at 17 the Pats can look to other positions rather than DE or OLB.  I'm looking at  LT although Voll can move there getting the local kid to play LT would give the pats a couple of guys that are studs for years.

    I'm big on upgrading the Lines, I have a total of 5 line guys between D and O.  I believe them to be upgrades over guys in the roster. 

    17 - Anthony Costanzo OT
    28 - Muhammad Wilkerson DE
    33 - Stefen Wisniewski C/OG
    60 - Brooks Reed OLB
    74 - Kenrick Ellis DT/DE 
    92 - Kendall Hunter RB (if you didn't see this kid at Senior Bowl you missed a great performance)
    4th Rnd - John Moffitt OG
    5th Rnd - Darvin Adams WR 
    6th Rnd - Markus White OLB
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Auchhhhh those links were great thank you. Your mock was nice but its starting to look like Jordan wont get to 17. I think there will be better ol than Pouncy at 28. I watched a lot of Gator games and just dont feel good about Pouncy.Love your pick of Powell his video is out of this world.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Auchhhhh those links were great thank you. Your mock was nice but its starting to look like Jordan wont get to 17. I think there will be better ol than Pouncy at 28. I watched a lot of Gator games and just dont feel good about Pouncy.Love your pick of Powell his video is out of this world.
    Posted by maxnsl

    Max,

    I think there is an excellent chance that Jordan will be there at 17.  He is a perfect fit as a 3-4 DE but not such a good fit as a 4-3 DT.  Therefore I think he goes to a 3-4 team that needs a defensive end.  If we look at the teams picking ahead of us, the 3-4 teams who need DEs are DEN (2), BUF (3), CLE (6), DAL (9), and WAS (10).  Jordan is not going in the top 3 not with Fairley, Peterson and Bowers sitting there.  Cleveland would go with AJ Green or Von Miller before taking a DE.  Dallas has already stated they want an OT.  Miami is a 3-4 team at 15 but they have ZERO need for a DE so this leaves WAS.  WAS has much bigger needs at QB, WR, OG, and CB.  I would think if they don't take a QB like Mallett or Newton that they would go with Julio Jones or Prince Amukamara over Jordan.  But, I could be wrong here.

    Teams between 11-14 are HOU, MIN, DET and STL.  All are 4-3 teams and only MIN has a need at DE.  So if you make the case that Jordan can play 4-3 DE, there still isn't a need at MIN at 12.  MIN would likely be looking at QB or a more traditional edge rushing DE like Kerrigan, Quinn or Aldon Smith.  This takes us to JAX at 16.  JAX is a 4-3 team.  DE is a top need tied for JAX with QB, TE, OLB, FS, SS.  Again, if they target a DE, it would most likely be a prototypical speed edge rusher if one is left. 

    If WAS does not take a DE, I think there is a 80/20 chance that both Watt and Jordan are there at 17.  If we pigeonhole both players as 3-4 DEs after we pick at 17, SD needs a DE at 18 then no other 3-4 teams need a DE until we pick again at 28.  So, a strong case can be made that we could hold off on DE giving SD their choice of Watt or Jordan with the other one slipping to 28 unless the Jets move ahead of us.  They have shown the willingness to climb the board for a player they covet but they don't have a 2nd rounder this year and they'd have to swap their 3rd for a team's 4th meaning they get one pick in the top 100.

    So, I would target OT or OLB at 17 and DE at 28.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Pats, I dont see Moffit lasting to anywhere near the 4th.  I am thinking late 2nd if we want him.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Pats, I dont see Moffit lasting to anywhere near the 4th.  I am thinking late 2nd if we want him.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I agree, he originally had a 4th rnd grade but as he's stock is on the rise.  I ignored that fact for this one but yes you are correct.  I was going to put there Clint Bowling from Georgia who's stock should be around the 4th or 5th.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Pats, I dont see Moffit lasting to anywhere near the 4th.  I am thinking late 2nd if we want him.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon

    agreed.  Once we round the corner to the 2nd round, a run on OGs will start.  Teams needing OGs are DEN, CIN, ARI, CLE, TEN, DAL, WAS, DET, STL, OAK, TB, IND, PHI, SEA, ATL, NE, CHI, GB and PIT.  That's 19 teams!!  Even if 1/3 of these teams select a guard by round 2, the top 5-6 OGs will be gone by our pick 60. 

    I don't care where the draftnicks have these guys rated, demand will push them up the board.  Pouncey, Watkins, Wisniewski, Hudson, Moffitt, Franklin, and Schilling may all be gone certainly before our pick 74.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Reiss wrote this: "Wilfork is the leader of the group and he’s signed through 2014. Warren (2013), Deaderick (2013), Wright (2012), Brace (2012) and Pryor (2012)" I remember i had a similar thought during the season... Maybe DE is not or priority #1...  We have 1 stud pro bowler in Big vince. A returning veteran (warren) and young players who can develop nicely... Brace, pryor, Deadrick. i know... there are a los of "IFs"   IF WARREN COMES BACK OK.  IF BRACE IMPROVES, IF DEADRICK BEHAVES AND IMPROVES... But if we analyze our personal at OLB... the situation if way worse !!! maybe that area needs more help. Then is Neal retires, Mankins is not signed, and light`s gone too... i think the Oline becomes priority #2 or even maybe #1 because they protect the greatest asset this team has... Tom  brady.   If i had to re-arrange team´s priorities this would be my list: #1.- OL ( If mankins is gone... OG... if he stays and light´s gone OT) #2.- OLB (if mankins and light stay with the team... OLB becomes #1) #3.- DL #4.- Runnig Back (Bjge and Woddy may be the only backs returning) #5.- CB #6.- WR #7.- Safety   In a perfect world: Mankins stays, light stays, we draft a strong-fast OLB that can rush the passer, we get a first round DE that can also rush, a nice OG and a Power Running back in the draft. We get 1 veteran Free Agent in each side of the ball... Running back and CB for depth. go pats !  
    Posted by auchhhhhhhhhhh


    Sorry man, but 3-4 DE is and should be very high on our radar. None of the guys you mention above are legit 3-4 DE's except TWarren. Brace, Wright, Pryor are 4-3 guys, with Brace possibly playing NT in our 3-4 to spell Vince, but he is much to slow (5.48 40yd) to play 3-4 DE the way it needs to be played. Could they fill in? Yes of course, but they are not what our 3-4 system demands at the DE position.
    If you are looking for the prototype 3-4 DE, think Seymour. Right size, strength, quickness, wingspan. They got to seal, collapse, eat up double teams, disrupt passing lanes, etc. That demands someone in the 6'4-6'6" range, and 300-315 pounds, that runs a 4.8/4.9 40yd. That is at least my ideal and probably pretty close to Bills. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Sorry man, but 3-4 DE is and should be very high on our radar. None of the guys you mention above are legit 3-4 DE's except TWarren. Brace, Wright, Pryor are 4-3 guys, with Brace possibly playing NT in our 3-4 to spell Vince, but he is much to slow (5.48 40yd) to play 3-4 DE the way it needs to be played. Could they fill in? Yes of course, but they are not what our 3-4 system demands at the DE position. If you are looking for the prototype 3-4 DE, think Seymour. Right size, strength, quickness, wingspan. They got to seal, collapse, eat up double teams, disrupt passing lanes, etc. That demands someone in the 6'4-6'6" range, and 300-315 pounds, that runs a 4.8/4.9 40yd. That is at least my ideal and probably pretty close to Bills. 
    Posted by PatsLifer

    I agree with Lifer on this Auchhhh
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucet I usually defer to your superior knowledge( college football only) but all   I said was Jordan seems to be moving up and MAY not be there at 17. In fact I saw somewhere a mock had him going to the Texans at what 11? I hope he is there although for some reason I still like Watt. Again as we know its a guessing game.My main point was I hope we dont get Pouncy and I really hope we get Powell
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Acho is a name I have not seen....

    Sirius guys talk pass-rush prospects

    January, 31, 2011
    By Mike Reiss
    DALLAS -- Spent a few minutes with Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan, who host the "Movin' The Chains" program on Sirius NFL Radio. The discussion shined the spotlight on some of the top needs for the Patriots this offseason.

    They both focused on edge rushers, pulling out their notes from the Senior Bowl to identify three prospects they feel could fit best in the Patriots' system:

    Sam Acho (Texas) -- Four-year defensive end who also played defensive tackle, he totaled 23.5 sacks and eight forced fumbles over his career. At 6-foot-3 and around 260 pounds, he projects as an edge rusher/outside linebacker in the Patriots' scheme. Some scouting analysts project him as a third-round pick.

    Ryan Kerrigan (Purdue) -- Projected as a first-round pick, he is second on the Boilermakers' all-time charts with 33.5 sacks. He is also fifth in Purdue history in tackles for a loss (57), which makes him one of the most disruptive players in the draft.

    Brooks Reid (Arizona) -- Compared to Clay Matthews by Kirwan, some scouting analysts project him as a third-round pick. He totaled 17 sacks over his four seasons with the Wildcats.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Sam Acho is a top notch character kid. Comes from a great family. Even if we get DE in first round if Acho is there in the third he should be seriously considered. I'd love to have both Acho and Herzlich. We wouldn't have to worry about leadership on Pats for the next decade.
    Posted by pumpsiefan


    The Patriots need a top notch DE from the 1st round and a depth/potential DE in the 3rd round
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Faucet I usually defer to your superior knowledge( college football only) but all   I said was Jordan seems to be moving up and MAY not be there at 17. In fact I saw somewhere a mock had him going to the Texans at what 11? I hope he is there although for some reason I still like Watt. Again as we know its a guessing game.My main point was I hope we dont get Pouncy and I really hope we get Powell
    Posted by maxnsl

    Thanks for the flattery but not sure it's justified. 

    Everything is guess work at this point.  Once we have the Combine and get some measurables on some of these guys we should start getting separation.  Right now there are a whole bunch of people ranked together.  Houston I would think would be an unlikely place for Jordan or any DE to go.  First, they run a 4-3 base defense.  Second, they need a DT, not a DE.  I think playing Jordan as a 4-3 DT is not the best use of his talent.  He plays 3-4 DE at Cal.  He can use his speed to beat the tackle on the edge vs. playing inside.

    I'm not big on Pouncey and I love Watt and Powell, so we have that in common.   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Acho is a name I have not seen.... Sirius guys talk pass-rush prospects January, 31, 2011 By Mike Reiss DALLAS -- Spent a few minutes with Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan, who host the "Movin' The Chains" program on Sirius NFL Radio. The discussion shined the spotlight on some of the top needs for the Patriots this offseason. They both focused on edge rushers, pulling out their notes from the Senior Bowl to identify three prospects they feel could fit best in the Patriots' system: Sam Acho (Texas) -- Four-year defensive end who also played defensive tackle, he totaled 23.5 sacks and eight forced fumbles over his career. At 6-foot-3 and around 260 pounds, he projects as an edge rusher/outside linebacker in the Patriots' scheme. Some scouting analysts project him as a third-round pick. Ryan Kerrigan (Purdue) -- Projected as a first-round pick, he is second on the Boilermakers' all-time charts with 33.5 sacks. He is also fifth in Purdue history in tackles for a loss (57), which makes him one of the most disruptive players in the draft. Brooks Reid (Arizona) -- Compared to Clay Matthews by Kirwan, some scouting analysts project him as a third-round pick. He totaled 17 sacks over his four seasons with the Wildcats.
    Posted by Rocky

    All three of those guys are solid options Rocky.  If Kerrigan is still on the board at 17, he would be hard to pass up.  Reed should be available at 60 and Acho perhaps as late as 92 but certainly he should be there at 74.  It depends I guess on priorities and positional depth.

    If we are able to retain Light or Mankins, just one of them, it allows us to take a DE, an OLB and OL with our top 3 picks.  If I had to guess, odds are we will keep Light because he wants to stay and I assume the team still wants him.  As for the draft, a lot will depend on where BB ranks some of these guys. 

    Some of the guys I think we will consider in the first round are Kerrigan, Jordan, Watt, Castonzo, Carimi, Solder, Heyward and perhaps Wilkerson and Taylor.  I think there is a better chance for one of the 3-4 DEs to slide to 28 than one of the top OTs.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Max, I think there is an excellent chance that Jordan will be there at 17.  He is a perfect fit as a 3-4 DE but not such a good fit as a 4-3 DT.  Therefore I think he goes to a 3-4 team that needs a defensive end.  If we look at the teams picking ahead of us, the 3-4 teams who need DEs are DEN (2), BUF (3), CLE (6), DAL (9), and WAS (10).  Jordan is not going in the top 3 not with Fairley, Peterson and Bowers sitting there.  Cleveland would go with AJ Green or Von Miller before taking a DE.  Dallas has already stated they want an OT.  Miami is a 3-4 team at 15 but they have ZERO need for a DE so this leaves WAS.  WAS has much bigger needs at QB, WR, OG, and CB.  I would think if they don't take a QB like Mallett or Newton that they would go with Julio Jones or Prince Amukamara over Jordan.  But, I could be wrong here. Teams between 11-14 are HOU, MIN, DET and STL.  All are 4-3 teams and only MIN has a need at DE.  So if you make the case that Jordan can play 4-3 DE, there still isn't a need at MIN at 12.  MIN would likely be looking at QB or a more traditional edge rushing DE like Kerrigan, Quinn or Aldon Smith.  This takes us to JAX at 16.  JAX is a 4-3 team.  DE is a top need tied for JAX with QB, TE, OLB, FS, SS.  Again, if they target a DE, it would most likely be a prototypical speed edge rusher if one is left.  If WAS does not take a DE, I think there is a 80/20 chance that both Watt and Jordan are there at 17.  If we pigeonhole both players as 3-4 DEs after we pick at 17, SD needs a DE at 18 then no other 3-4 teams need a DE until we pick again at 28.  So, a strong case can be made that we could hold off on DE giving SD their choice of Watt or Jordan with the other one slipping to 28 unless the Jets move ahead of us.  They have shown the willingness to climb the board for a player they covet but they don't have a 2nd rounder this year and they'd have to swap their 3rd for a team's 4th meaning they get one pick in the top 100. So, I would target OT or OLB at 17 and DE at 28.
    Posted by Faucetman


    great analysis faucet.
    thanks for this!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Thanks for the flattery but not sure it's justified.  Everything is guess work at this point.  Once we have the Combine and get some measurables on some of these guys we should start getting separation.  Right now there are a whole bunch of people ranked together.  Houston I would think would be an unlikely place for Jordan or any DE to go.  First, they run a 4-3 base defense.  Second, they need a DT, not a DE.  I think playing Jordan as a 4-3 DT is not the best use of his talent.  He plays 3-4 DE at Cal.  He can use his speed to beat the tackle on the edge vs. playing inside. I'm not big on Pouncey and I love Watt and Powell, so we have that in common.   
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,
    With Wade Phillips taking over as D coordinator in Houston, word is they are switching to a 3-4. That means that Jordan is potentially a target, but I would contend with switching to the 3-4 and who they currently have as personnel, they would be much better off with a big NT like Phil Taylor from Baylor. They need an anchor on that line and currently no one on the line can occupy space like Taylor could.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

     just realized this...the 4-3 teams must be getting really excited over the bumper crop of pass rush DEs this year. it would be hard to pck the wrong kid. 2011 reg season could be trouble for OTs and QBs.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    i was thinking about the draft and some of the things i read here everyday, and trying to imagine how things could develop for the pats... when the doctor told me my height and weight 6-1  253     ( we use kilograms and centimeters here in mexico 1.85 and 115 kilos) and my first thought was  INSIDE LINEBACKER !!!! HAHAHAH and the second one... :S time to diet !!!!!!!!! thanks for the good work guys... draft is getting closer !    
    Posted by auchhhhhhhhhhh

    I'm 6-3, 270 and I run a blistering 6.09 so I'm thinking OLB:))  But at 47, I might be stuck on special teams.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Faucet, With Wade Phillips taking over as D coordinator in Houston, word is they are switching to a 3-4. That means that Jordan is potentially a target, but I would contend with switching to the 3-4 and who they currently have as personnel, they would be much better off with a big NT like Phil Taylor from Baylor. They need an anchor on that line and currently no one on the line can occupy space like Taylor could.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    Hadn't heard that they were moving to a 3-4, now it makes sense.  Guess we have to throw Watt back into the mix at 17 because if Houston takes Jordan, SD might take Watt at 18.  If we can extend Light for 1-2 years, we might be able to draft Tyron Smith at 28 or 33 and take some time with him.  But if I'm Light, I would view this as my last chance to get a 4 year deal.  I just don't know if many teams would do that for a 32 year old average OT.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I'm 6-3, 270 and I run a blistering 6.09 so I'm thinking OLB:))  But at 47, I might be stuck on special teams.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I may have you beat!!!  6'4", 260!  I have no idea what I would run in a 40.  Probably around a minute.  I'm at 55!  You wimp!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    check this out in critiquing our system and in making your drafts:
     
    also, it isn't often distinguished here, but i think it can be fun both guessing what bill might do and picking what we might do if we were doing the selecting. both are fun, though i prefer the second (and also pointing out where we as an organization and a coaching staff can grow). i would love to know which someone is discussing when, so i can read it that wayand "get" them.

    cheers
    cb

    -------------------------------------

    DALLAS -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick said his coaching staff is still taking "inventory" on the 2010 regular season. One area that should stand out -- and help shape a significant part of the team's offseason approach -- is the heavy volume of sub packages.

    The Patriots are known as a 3-4 defense, but that's not what they played in the majority of their snaps. In fact, it wasn't even close.

    Of 1,101 defensive plays charted by ESPNBoston.com (including some penalties and 2-point conversions), the Patriots were in a sub package 628 times. That's a 57 percent clip.

    Meanwhile, the defense was in a base 3-4 alignment 441 times (40 percent) and short-yardage personnel on 32 snaps (3 percent).

     

    So ultimately, the sub -- which is when five or more defensive backs are on the field -- is what sunk them. It's primarily why they ranked last in the NFL on third down.

    The first step to change that is for Belichick and his staff to place more value on it in the scouting and evaluation process.

    The Patriots are a system-specific team, which means they scout players independently based on how they might fit into their unique-to-them 3-4 system. Because of that, they sometimes take themselves out of the running for some of the best pure edge rushers in the draft, defenders who might fit only in 4-3 schemes.

    Based on 2010, a strong case could be made that it's time to change that line of thinking.

    Because of the struggles in the sub package, a 4-3 edge rusher is exactly what the Patriots need -- a havoc-creator that opposing teams must account for at all times, a play-with-your-hair-on-fire rusher who brings an attitude to a defense.

    As the Super Bowl hype gets underway here Monday in "Big D" with the arrival of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers, there are two players in attendance who highlight what might have been different had the Patriots been thinking along those lines: LaMarr Woodley and Clay Matthews.

    In 2007, Woodley was selected by the Steelers in the second round (46th overall). That was a draft in which the overall quality was considered poor, so how did a gem like Woodley -- who has 39 regular-season sacks in four seasons and comes up even bigger in the playoffs -- slip so far?

    [+] EnlargeMatthews
    Jeff Hanisch/US PresswireClay Matthews could have been a Patriot, but New England traded away the pick the Packers used to select the star pass-rusher in the 2009 NFL draft.

    Obviously the Patriots weren't the only team to miss on Woodley, who probably dropped because he measured 6-foot-1 and ran a so-so 4.74 in the 40-yard dash at his pro day entering the draft. The concern in scouts' eyes was likely whether Woodley's size would hinder him against bigger offensive tackles as a hybrid outside linebacker/defensive end. While he's landed in the perfect system to maximize his talents -- always something important to consider -- it's hard to imagine Woodley wouldn't be a terror in New England and elsewhere.

    As for Matthews, his situation has been well documented in these parts because the Patriots traded their 2009 first-round pick (26th overall) to the Packers, who were so hot for pass-rush help that they paid the hefty price of a second-round pick and two third-rounders, who then took Matthews with that pick from New England.

    Coming into the draft, Matthews was a bit different from Woodley in that he was lighter, weighing 240 pounds at the combine and his pro day (Woodley was 266). That led to questions among analysts as to how well he'd hold up against the run in New England's 3-4 scheme ("setting the edge"), which could explain why the Patriots passed on him, assuming he checked out in all other areas. While Matthews has also landed in the perfect system to help him emerge -- he has 23.5 sacks in two seasons -- it's safe to say 31 other teams could find a way to maximize his pass-rush explosion.

    When it comes to Woodley and Matthews, it's always easy to look back and wonder what might have been, and to simply pick two players like that isn't necessarily a fair exercise. After all, the Patriots' drafting is on par with some of the best in the NFL in Bill Belichick's tenure, and it would be just as easy to pick two highly drafted edge rushers who haven't panned out over that time.

    Still, one important aspect of scouting is being flexible within a system, and the growing number of snaps in the sub defense could signal the need for the Patriots to alter their mindset.

    In the search for three- and four-down players with their top picks, the Patriots have selected safety Brandon Meriweather, linebacker Jerod Mayo, safety Patrick Chung and cornerback Devin McCourty in each of the past four years.

    Looking ahead, a two-down player wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if that player is a pass-rusher.

    At the least, he'd fill 57 percent of the snaps in sub packages, addressing the team's biggest need.


     
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