2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]Truthfully if I were to target a pure rushing specialist I'd look at later round selection such as: Steven Friday Ugo Chinasa Justin Houston (if he slips into the 4th which could happen) Devin Mayo And then take those 2nd and 3rd rounders and use those to move into next year, grab some more OL help, grab a RB or WR, and maybe target a DL player like Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    justin houston will not drop into the 4th round
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Figured you would bring that up and was going to address it in last post but you are preaching to the choir but Seymour is one of the best DE all time in the NFL. You aren't landing him every decade. Also you have to keep in mind perception when you talk about drop off in pass rush when Seymour left. Timing is everything. Seymour tied his 2nd best season in 2008 in his personal sack statistics.  Not always the case with him. Also the 2008 defense as a whole was much better so he had a far greater and more experienced supporting cast. The pass rush was NOT all Seymour that year. Pats still had a lot of guys around then. Vrabes, AD, Warren, Harrison, etc. Very different dynamic that year with the D playing very well leading up to the end of the season as a whole. Personally was excited to see the damage they could cause in the playoffs had they gotten in. Seymour wasn't the only guy to exit when the drop off came.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    I thought you would bring those players up but lets actually look at them

    Harrison played a total of 6 games so his impact was not as strong as you would think. AD played 9 games but again it's AD and after Seymour left AD's numbers tanked. Vrable had a awful year that year compared to his 07 year and since leaving the Pats has struggled. Pretty much across the board after they either left Seymour or since Seymour was traded all the numbers for the players have dropped. Also the total sack and tfl numbers have drop in NE even though all the players you mention had years below their career averages.

    Yes Seymour is an once in a decade type of player but your more likely to find someone that might be more Seymour then Brace to anchor the DE, greatly improving the pass rush, in the 1st then in later rounds. Unfortunitly history has proven once you get out of the 1st round range you see more Brace's then you do Seymour's so from my view getting that blue chip DE to anchor around should be looked at hard in the 1st while the OL has proven you might not get a pro-bowler in the 2nd round but you most certainly can find a Vollmer or Light.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from qball369. Show qball369's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    I am wondering if anyone has considered that the Pats will deal the 33rd pick for a 3rd this year and a 1st next year (giving them the often mentioned 3 number 1's next year) and then trade one or 2 of them for a current player to help the pass rush - the Patriots have made big trades for players in the past(Moss, Welker, Dillon, etc)

    I haven't seen any talk of this at all......
     
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    Do anybody have a link that unambiguously addresses Bowers' knee problem?  Yes or no?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]I am wondering if anyone has considered that the Pats will deal the 33rd pick for a 3rd this year and a 1st next year (giving them the often mentioned 3 number 1's next year) and then trade one or 2 of them for a current player to help the pass rush - the Patriots have made big trades for players in the past(Moss, Welker, Dillon, etc) I haven't seen any talk of this at all......
    Posted by qball369[/QUOTE]

    I brought up a trade like that earlier but as of right now you can't trade picks in this years draft for players so that's kinda out. However, you can stock picks for next years draft and when trades are allowed you can trade future picks for players
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    I think that Rex should take Wilkerson and room him up with Gholston...every young guy needs a mentor...give him footsteps to follow....
     
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    I know the draft wasn't glamorous and truthfully I was a little disappointed when they didn't take Cameron Jordan or Prince Amakamura.  That said my issue is with the player chosen and not the overall strategy, and in this case, as in every year with the draft, I'll defer to Belichick with regards to scouting.  This pick gives us leverage and a fall back option when dealing with Light.  I'd rather see Solder eased into the lineup but if that can't happen, so be it. 

    As for the trade, it is tremendous value.  I know some people are disappointed that they made the deal with the Saints, but that doesn't really matter all that much.  Consider that if the Pats continue this philosophy they end up picking the higher of two first round picks each year and get an extra second each year of the draft.  It is a brilliant strategy.  It is these types of moves that allows BB flexibility each year of the draft. 

    I have stated previously on here that the "just trade pick 28 to a bad team for a 1st next year" is flawed because it discounts the fact that the other team knows it is not good.  Most of these GMs aren't idiots (most).  They realize that if they are picking at the top of the draft this year that they are probably not one late first round pick away from turning it around.  They too realize that their first pick next year is going to be valuable.

    With the 33 pick I would like to see them get a mid second and second for next year.  Anything more than that would be gravy.  With three mid to late second rounders BB can fill the areas of need such as OLB, OG, C, RB, WR.  I think this is a good area to look for that conversion DE.  There is still some very good talent available here.  I look forward to the rest of this draft.

    One other thing I'd like to mention is that I've heard of this window with Brady as our QB and that we need players to win now.  BB has proven to be very adept at finding and developing late round QB's (Brady, Cassell) that have been able to succeed when forced into action.  This, to me negates that so called window.  Tom Brady is a special player but if you put solid talent around an above average QB you will succeed and I think that should be the strategy.  Building for the long term.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    Hopefully, BB spends a lot of time today saying...."Sorry....the other phone is ringing, we'll get back to you"......
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Depends on the position. The problem is guessing the likelihood for an OT to reach his potential who you have 3 years of college film to evaluate him doing exactly what he will be doing in the pro's in your offensive system is much easier and safer. Taking a complete guess at a conversion(changing positions and responsibilities) guy with NO experience in college to evaluate while doing what you'd want him to do in your defensive system in the pro's is a much greater risk. The NFL draft history also very clearly demonstrates this.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    I never said that he was looking at a conversion guy. Jordan could have been had at 17 and both WIlkerson and Heyward were available at 28, none of which would have to convert to anything and each would have been a definite upgrade to the cadre of non-studs they have now. And with Jordan at 17, you still could have picked up a decent OT at 28.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    My wish list for today, not too much to ask for right?

    Sheard OLB
    Christian Ballard elephant OLB/DE
    Edmond Gates WR
    Marcus Gilbert OT/OG
    John Moffit OG/C


    2012 2nd Rnd
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    Interesting report out that Cinn tried to trade with GB at the last moment to get Dalton but failed. Now that every team knows that's who Cinn is after think about the trade offers the Pats have been getting tonight. They've had a whole night and day to play teams against each other where the entire league knows if Dalton is a highly sought after QB that he won't make it past #35
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : I never said that he was looking at a conversion guy. Jordan could have been had at 17 and both WIlkerson and Heyward were available at 28, none of which would have to convert to anything and each would have been a definite upgrade to the cadre of non-studs they have now. And with Jordan at 17, you still could have picked up a decent OT at 28.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]

    Pats were not the only team that passed on Jordan, maybe there's something there teams know which we do not.  There's a reason why a guy with his talents falls that way.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Pats were not the only team that passed on Jordan, maybe there's something there teams know which we do not.  There's a reason why a guy with his talents falls that way.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    And a lot of teams passed on Matthews, Hernandez, and Mayo too. Just because other teams passed doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the player
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : And a lot of teams passed on Matthews, Hernandez, and Mayo too. Just because other teams passed doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the player
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    That's correct but my point is before we crown a player lets see what he does first.

    I really like the pick of Solder, not much so solder himself but the OT.  My reasoning, the league announced yesterday teams could be open again and resume business.  Do you think someone didn't talk to Light and his agent and said this is our best offer where do you stand?  maybe didn't happen but BB wants to know every little bit of information prior to go into the draft. 

    Solder has very high ceiling, higher than any other OT.  He might not be as ready now but Scar spent had a last minute workout this week with him.  I'm sure if he didn't see a player he couldn't improve the pick would had been different.

    Christian Ballard and Allen Bailey are similar players to Jordan, 6'4" 285 range 4.74 40 very athletic.  Bailey is the stronger of the two, he will be available in the 2nd, you can't say the same for a OT with Solder's athletic ability and on field production. 

    BB sat with Bailey at Miami and watched film with him, I like Ballard (inch taller) but only did bench 16 reps. 

    Jordan
    Combine Invite: Yes
    Height: 6041
    Weight: 287
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.64
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
    Vertical Jump: 31
    Broad Jump: 09'09"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.37
    3-Cone Drill: 7.07
    4.78/4.85/4.96 40 range before Combine

    51 tackles, 26 solo 25 asst 6 sacks (no sacks against UC Davis, or Nevada or Arizona State) might be a reason why he dropped.  he didn't have very good games against bad teams.  So IMO from Bailey to Jordan there's a drop but not enough to take one 17 when the other is available or should be mid 40s, just my opinion.

    Bailey
    Combine Invite: Yes
    Height: 6030
    Weight: 285
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.71
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.70
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.67
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
    Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
    Broad Jump: 09'09"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.56
    3-Cone Drill: 7.43
    4.65/4.79/4.90 40 range before Combine

    46 tackles, 22 and 24 7 sacks

    Ballard
    Combine Invite: Yes
    Height: 6036
    Weight: 283
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.75
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.73
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16 at pro day
    Vertical Jump: 31 1/2
    Broad Jump: 09'03"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.51
    3-Cone Drill: 7.54
    4.78/4.86/4.98 40 range before Combine

    43 tackles 23, 20 3 sacks
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    PASS RUSH !!!!!!!

    Brooks Reed, Akeem Ayers,   Allen Bailey,   Justin Houston, Martez Wilson, Jabaal Sheard, Christian Ballard, Da'Quan Bowers.

     

     

     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]I've been lurking these forums for a solid two years and figured I'd finally join. I found this on another website. Apparently in Belichick's interview with CSN, they videographer displayed a large section of the Pat's draft board, including names and grades. Figured this would help posters figure out what players could be targeted tomorrow. QB - you couldn't see the top of the list, but I assume it was Gabbert. After that: Locker - 8.something (not on screen) Newton - 7.990 Mallett - 7.712 Dalton - 7.185 Ponder - 6.709 Enderle - 5.936 McElroy - 5.571 Devlin - 5.578 OG Watkins - can't see the score Boling - 7.645 Moffit - 6.856 Cannon - 6.762 Carpenter - 6.546 Franklin - 6.227 Jackson - 6.012 Buren - 5.815 Schlauderaf - 5.627 Rackley - 5.549 Arkin - 5.531 Hurd - 5.039 Schilling - 5.013 C Pouncey - 8.132 Hudson - 7.642 Wisnewski - 6.337 O'Dowd - 5.894 Beeler - 5.367 Pugh - 5.367 McMahon - 5.633 (higher than previous 2) Kowolski - 5.548 OT Solder - 8.481 T Smith - 8.344 Carimi - 8.281 Costonzo - 8.067 Ijalana - 7.811 Sherrod - 7.614 Love - 6.088 Ziemba - 5.991 Hairston - 5.654 Pinkston - 5.433 Reid - 5.538 DE Dareus - 8.652 Quinn - 8.519 Jordan - 8.494 Clayborn - 8.301 Watt - 8.243 Wilkerson - 8.176 Heyward - 7.937 Bailey - 6.978 Sheard - 6.193 Reed - 6.134 Matthews - 5.542 Allen - 5.531 McPhee - 5.038 Klug - 4.227 NT Taylor - 7.814 Austin - 6.859 Jenkins - 5.832 Neild - 5.448 DT (the scores were off the screen, so I just have the order) Fairley - Aub Liuget - UIl Siliga - Utah Ballard - Iowa Casey - USC Ajiboye - SCar Nevis - LSU Guy - AzSt Larimore - SCar McClaine - SFla Parker - Richmond Taylor - Okla Thornton - Ark St WR Green - 8.782 Jones - 8.419 T Smith - 7.978 Cobb - 7.936 V Brown - 6.077 (SDSt) Little - 6.032 Doss - 6.015 Paul - 5.938 Young - 5.815 Toliver - 5.772 Hankerson - 5.732 Salas - 5.517 TE - couldn't see the top of the board, assume it's Randolph Stocker - 7.327 Kendricks - 6.859 Williams - 6.056 Dial - 5.906 Gantt - 5.618 Saunders - 5.589 Green - 5.390 Housler - 5.314 Jordan Cameron - 5.131 FB Marecic - couldn't see his score Hughes - 5.537 Cooper - 5.315 Havili - 5.216 Chapas - 5.082 Houston - 5.045 Morse - 4.876 Sims - 4.317 Sherman - 4.236 The board didn't display the LB's, DB's, or RB's unfortunately.  Based on these numbers, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator that the Pats may be looking at either Smith or Cobb as their first pick in the second (assuming it isn't traded), along with Boling, Hudson, or any of the LB's or RB's whose draft grades we couldn't see later on in the second. Posted by JMUFranco In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Wow this is really good stuff. IF its accurate it tells us a couple things; 1) Both Cam Jordan and Robert Quinn graded out slightly higher than Nate Solder, so BB must have thrown the BPA theory out the window. 2) Da'Quan Bowers is NOT on the Pats board. (unless I missed him) I think Solder is a good solid pick but I was dissappointed we didnt get Jordan. However I learned in 2001 to always trust BB when he irritated me (and probably a bunch of you) when he Took a big guy named Richard Seymour instead of David Terrell or Koren Robinson, WR's that Drew Bledsoe needed! In BB I trust, and bring on the 2nd round!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    If this has any truth I wish I didn't see it, nice to imaging the Pats stole a guy with an 8 grade on there board in the second over setteling for a 6. Now we would know.

    Anyway I took one more things from this,

    If the Pats plan was to grab a DE at 33 then they took a big blow at the end of round 1. Losing Wilk and Heyward leaves then a big drop off to the next level on the above board. Was this a mistake and will they now not take DE untill father down the line because of better value in other positions of less need.

    I would say the need over value thing of takeing Solder vs Jordan ( miniscule diff in rating ) might not be true on a final board because need does play a part and i'd imagine would be worth a tenth of a point on the final draft board without altering your overall philosiphy.

    We also do not have a clue on the context of these numbers of course, could be a specific rating ( say just charater rating ect..) therefore used but rolled into other numbers similar to grade out final ratings.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : I never said that he was looking at a conversion guy. Jordan could have been had at 17 and both WIlkerson and Heyward were available at 28, none of which would have to convert to anything and each would have been a definite upgrade to the cadre of non-studs they have now. And with Jordan at 17, you still could have picked up a decent OT at 28.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]


    You "might" be right. But I often bring this up and people do not like to hear it.

    The Patriots rate players in a draft against who they have on the roster.

    Your opinion is that Jordan, Heyward and Wilkerson are absolute definite substantial upgrades to Wilfork, Warren, Stroud, and Brace.

    Maybe or perhaps the Patriots do not feel the same way? Maybe or perhaps they think there is not a big drop off from those three to who ever they have graded in this draft as the next crop they are considering or what's on the roster already?

    Fans often make the mistake of assuming just because a guys goes in a particular round in a given year that they are "automatically" better than a player the Pats have on the current roster if that player was drafted in a later round than the guy they were pining over.

    Although I liked Jordan for his versatility and honestly thought they would take him. No one on this thread went without questioning ideal fit (other than Wilkerson) for the pats considering past BB DE picks. I mean out of the potential 1st round guys.

    I never thought ANY of those guys you mentioned were absolute studs.

    I Like Jordan because I liked envisioning him on 3rd down in that sub Jarvis Green role or some unique situational OLB role. As a stud run stuffing every down DE? Never thought of him that way for being amazing.

    Thought Wilkerson was over rated but if the pats liked Solder they should have liked Wilkerson as BOTH players are developmental imo. Wilkerson got absolutely destroyed one on one by Ben Ijalana every time he faced him and he did not go in the first round.

    Thought Heyward based on style of play fit best but wouldn't sit here and say I think he'll be better than Warren. Similar maybe. Stroud maybe, depends how much he has left, at his best no. The best thing i can say definitively would be they are all younger. Without knowing the FULL plan and evaluation the Pats have for the DL moving forward I am not going suggest to made a mistake.

    All three players ended up well into the 2nd half of the 1st round with two of them falling to the bottom.

    It's only one day. We don't know what the final draft haul will be. Who they will go after in FA or who they will resign from their own team. We also have no idea what their own end of season internal evaluations and grading showed. The Pats DE situation might have grade out much better than any of us give credit for? No idea.

    We might get a better idea of what's what tonight. Should be interesting and looking forward to it.
     
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    ohh don't get me wrong I like the Solder pick as he could become the best T in this class but on the same note they had a chance to fix the biggest issue they've had over the last couple years which has knocked them out of the playoffs (pass rush). If they don't fix the pass rush and Jordan is another Matthews I think we have the right to be pissed or if they grab someone today and he flops we have the right to be pissed. But if they get the right guy and the pass rush improves to be at least league average then you really can't complain about the Solder pick at all. We'll just have to see how this turns out in the end
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : I thought you would bring those players up but lets actually look at them Harrison played a total of 6 games so his impact was not as strong as you would think. AD played 9 games but again it's AD and after Seymour left AD's numbers tanked. Vrable had a awful year that year compared to his 07 year and since leaving the Pats has struggled. Pretty much across the board after they either left Seymour or since Seymour was traded all the numbers for the players have dropped. Also the total sack and tfl numbers have drop in NE even though all the players you mention had years below their career averages. Yes Seymour is an once in a decade type of player but your more likely to find someone that might be more Seymour then Brace to anchor the DE, greatly improving the pass rush, in the 1st then in later rounds. Unfortunitly history has proven once you get out of the 1st round range you see more Brace's then you do Seymour's so from my view getting that blue chip DE to anchor around should be looked at hard in the 1st while the OL has proven you might not get a pro-bowler in the 2nd round but you most certainly can find a Vollmer or Light.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    My point was only that it was the collective result more than any one individual.

    You have the experience of all those veterans collectively both in performance , stabilizing influence on the much fewer young guys, etc.

    2007 and Vrables was an anomaly that had nothing to do with Sey and I am pretty sure you weren't suggesting it but not sure why you brought that up.

    While absolutely not diminishing Sey's effect as we both agree on the caliber of player he was, Football is the ultimate team/system sport. All the of collective player and coaching changes and Warren hip injury that happened around or at the same time as the Sey exit/trade only exacerbated the situation IMO.

    Let's be honest also here. Sey was picked 6th.

    I am pretty sure that players like Jordan or more specifically Wilkerson, and Heyward who went at the very end of rnd 1(30 & 31) are a lot closer to Brace's(40) quality than Seymours(6).

    ..and not just because the numbers are closer. Those top 10 guys are generally elite or expected to be. Those late 1st rounders and 1st half of 2nd rounders depending on the draft year can often be considered very similar talents.

    Of course there are always the exceptions/misses to all of that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : You "might" be right. But I often bring this up and people do not like to hear it. The Patriots rate players in a draft against who they have on the roster. Your opinion is that Jordan, Heyward and Wilkerson are absolute definite substantial upgrades to Wilfork, Warren, Stroud, and Brace. Maybe or perhaps the Patriots do not feel the same way? Maybe or perhaps they think there is not a big drop off from those three to who ever they have graded in this draft as the next crop they are considering or what's on the roster already? Fans often make the mistake of assuming just because a guys goes in a particular round in a given year that they are "automatically" better than a player the Pats have on the current roster if that player was drafted in a later round than the guy they were pining over. Although I liked Jordan for his versatility and honestly thought they would take him. No one on this thread went without questioning ideal fit (other than Wilkerson) for the pats considering past BB DE picks. I mean out of the potential 1st round guys. I never thought ANY of those guys you mentioned were absolute studs. I Like Jordan because I liked envisioning him on 3rd down in that sub Jarvis Green role or some unique situational OLB role. As a stud run stuffing every down DE? Never thought of him that way for being amazing. Thought Wilkerson was over rated but if the pats liked Solder they should have liked Wilkerson as BOTH players are developmental imo. Wilkerson got absolutely destroyed one on one by Ben Ijalana every time he faced him and he did not go in the first round. Thought Heyward based on style of play fit best but wouldn't sit here and say I think he'll be better than Warren. Similar maybe. Stroud maybe, depends how much he has left, at his best no. The best thing i can say definitively would be they are all younger. Without knowing the FULL plan and evaluation the Pats have for the DL moving forward I am not going suggest to made a mistake. All three players ended up well into the 2nd half of the 1st round with two of them falling to the bottom. It's only one day. We don't know what the final draft haul will be. Who they will go after in FA or who they will resign from their own team. We also have no idea what their own end of season internal evaluations and grading showed. The Pats DE situation might have grade out much better than any of us give credit for? No idea. We might get a better idea of what's what tonight. Should be interesting and looking forward to it.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]
    Low, You're spot on. Pats will be adding T. Warren and Stroud. Most DLs are signed thru 2012, and hopefully T. Warren and the other injured will contribute. So there's depth, not so with the Oline. I recall the Pats losing the SB to the Giants who had great rotational depth on the dline so that, IMO, is a notable issue. Faucetman was right about the Pats needing to strengthen the Oline and I love acquiring future picks because of the options that process gives you. Also, many are forgetting about Free Agency - alledgedly hundreds to choose from. I don't see A. Luck in the picture as he'd have to sit for at least three years; nobody takes a #1 without him playing right away. However, perhaps in three years.............................
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]ohh don't get me wrong I like the Solder pick as he could become the best T in this class but on the same note they had a chance to fix the biggest issue they've had over the last couple years which has knocked them out of the playoffs (pass rush). If they don't fix the pass rush and Jordan is another Matthews I think we have the right to be pissed or if they grab someone today and he flops we have the right to be pissed. But if they get the right guy and the pass rush improves to be at least league average then you really can't complain about the Solder pick at all. We'll just have to see how this turns out in the end
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    They need it but its chicken or egg and can clearly be expressed as the complete opposite.

    2009 I don't even like to use the team from 2 years ago. They were frauds. Brady and the offense was awful.The D was awful. The locker room was awful. The offense turned the ball over how many times deep in their own end of the playoff loss sticking the D out there to defend a short field?

    2007 superbowl 5 sacks allowed on Brady and only scoring 14 points. Not sure pass rush for our D was the problem there. You could make a case but I am ok with a Pats D only allowing 17 points in a superbowl. Especially when some of those points required a miracle by the opposing teams offense.

    2010 sure D needs help but did we really think they wouldn't? We all worried about it going in to the season. Not like it was a surprise. They started to address it with Cunningham. He wasn't one of my guys but I'm holding out hope. They are young, they are in transition. For me last year is the only year you can really make the argument both ways for pass protect vs pass rush. Pats allowed 5 sacks again on Brady but the D didn't get any either. If Pats offense actually executes and score the 1st two TD's the game changes and the D has more opportunities to get after Sanchez. However if the D steps up and gets the ball back to the Offense then Brady had more touches and opportunity to do something with it.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    I think Cunningham was a big step forward but he is more a solid 3 down player to me. He does everything above average but he isn't great at one aspect or another, not someone you have to plan for. You honestly need a player like Cunningham but on the same note you need a player who can become a force in the backfield. From how I look at it the ILB are set, the CB's are pretty much set (you can upgrade the 3rd CB but a good pass rush can make up for it), The S's are pretty much set though a replacement for Meriweather after he leaves would be nice, the depth on the line is great and Warren and Wilfork are great. The only thing missing is that LDE that can force teams to dbl team him and make his presence felt (doesn't need to get the sack but put pressure on the QB) and another bookend across from Cunningham who can get to the passer. After that I think this D is set honestly. unfortunately those 2 spots that I think we need to finish the rebuild you need to draft for homeruns which means you might miss on some but when you hit it can completely change your D. 

    OL is a much safer pick. BB played the safe pick and doesn't want to go after the homerun. But we'll have to see what he does tonight. If he doesn't come out with a pass rusher would you be happy?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    That too.  Meant to say that.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : You "might" be right. But I often bring this up and people do not like to hear it. The Patriots rate players in a draft against who they have on the roster. Your opinion is that Jordan, Heyward and Wilkerson are absolute definite substantial upgrades to Wilfork, Warren, Stroud, and Brace. Maybe or perhaps the Patriots do not feel the same way? Maybe or perhaps they think there is not a big drop off from those three to who ever they have graded in this draft as the next crop they are considering or what's on the roster already? Fans often make the mistake of assuming just because a guys goes in a particular round in a given year that they are "automatically" better than a player the Pats have on the current roster if that player was drafted in a later round than the guy they were pining over. Although I liked Jordan for his versatility and honestly thought they would take him. No one on this thread went without questioning ideal fit (other than Wilkerson) for the pats considering past BB DE picks. I mean out of the potential 1st round guys. I never thought ANY of those guys you mentioned were absolute studs. I Like Jordan because I liked envisioning him on 3rd down in that sub Jarvis Green role or some unique situational OLB role. As a stud run stuffing every down DE? Never thought of him that way for being amazing. Thought Wilkerson was over rated but if the pats liked Solder they should have liked Wilkerson as BOTH players are developmental imo. Wilkerson got absolutely destroyed one on one by Ben Ijalana every time he faced him and he did not go in the first round. Thought Heyward based on style of play fit best but wouldn't sit here and say I think he'll be better than Warren. Similar maybe. Stroud maybe, depends how much he has left, at his best no. The best thing i can say definitively would be they are all younger. Without knowing the FULL plan and evaluation the Pats have for the DL moving forward I am not going suggest to made a mistake. All three players ended up well into the 2nd half of the 1st round with two of them falling to the bottom. It's only one day. We don't know what the final draft haul will be. Who they will go after in FA or who they will resign from their own team. We also have no idea what their own end of season internal evaluations and grading showed. The Pats DE situation might have grade out much better than any of us give credit for? No idea. We might get a better idea of what's what tonight. Should be interesting and looking forward to it.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Excuse me, but where did I say they were better than Wilfork, Warren, Stroud etc. Please don't put words in my mouth (posts). Thanx.

    Are you telling me that none of them are upgrades for Deaderick, Brace (another real "potential" 2nd round disappointment) and Love on Day One? Consider that Ty Warren is coming off hip surgery and didn't play all last year, and Mike Wright missed the last half of the year with a concussion. I'm not sure hoping they've recovered is the best alternative. Wilfork is the ONLY stud DL they have that can be counted on at the moment. The others are roster stuffing or questionable at this moment at best.

    I said earlier that I liked the Solder pick. But I would have liked Jordan and Carimi or Solder and Heyward better than Solder and the number 31 next year given the continued weakness on the defensive line.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Pats were not the only team that passed on Jordan, maybe there's something there teams know which we do not.  There's a reason why a guy with his talents falls that way.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]


    Sainnts sure didn't.
     
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