2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I feel your passion man...I hope that didn't come across wrong!.. Anyhow, I'm with you. It's going to take a really bold move up for Miller (5), a bold move up for Watt (9), and probably a liveable move up for Quinn (11/12). Sitting at 17 and even trading up a spot or two isn't going to get us much. The 2 teams in front of us are not threatening, unless San Diego tries to leap frog. So, you may want to go 2 spots for Jordan if he is the guy. If we want Watt, we have to worry starting at 9 with Dallas, and continuing with 10 (Washington) and 11 (Houston)...All 3-4 teams, all in need of a DE. I would argue however that Houston is probably more in need of a Phil Taylor (NT), than a guy like Watt, but Watt would still serve a valuable purpose especially with the pillsberry doughboy taking over the D.  Therefore, if Watt is our guy, I think we need to insure he doesn't go to Dallas starting at 9 and going through Houston at 11. I think 12 is too late. If we want him, we need to do 17/60/124 (even then we would be a bit short, but Dallas might take it.) On the other hand, if Jordan is our guy, I am 75/25 he makes it to 17. Jacksonville could be a threat, but I think they go Kerrigan..what about 9-11 with all those 3-4 teams packed in there?....I don' think he goes that early. I think our little community mock proved that (thanks Pats7393 for starting). My brain is racked over trying to figure out what BB might do. I have a ton of respect for the guy and can imagine the preparation he and his team go through to get to this point. Before I post my mock, or what I think could happen, can anyone give me an objective opinion on Watt vs. Jordan in our defense? Which guy do you believe has the most value/versatility to us, and please consider potential draft position as well...forthis one, lets assume Watt at 9 and Jordan t 17.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    Thanks, we are all passionate.  I like Watt better than Jordan as I've stated but Watt at 9 giving up 17/60/124 vs. Jordan at 17, if those were choices, I'd stay put at 17 and take Jordan.  By the way, we now know we are at 125 with only one 3rd round comp pick awarded.

    If Watt is a must (and I'm not saying he is) we have to find a way to get there without giving up 3 picks.  We must also consider Dallas' needs.  They aren't going to move out of 9 unless they see they can get the player they want.  Dallas' top needs IMO are DE, OT, CB, OG, FS, SS in that order.  They never take OL in the 1st and there are no safeties worthy of a 1st.  This means Dallas has to see a CB or DE at 17 that makes sense to them unless they are finally going to break their pattern and take a Pouncey or OT at 17.  Dallas might be willing to take a shot at Jimmy Smith at 17 but they have to assume DET won't reach for their top need, CB. 

    We know two teams expressed interest in moving up to 9.  I only assume it was a team looking to take Amukamara, but we shouldn't rule out Quinn, Jones or Newton being the target.  STL may want to jump ahead of WAS for Jones.  HOU and DET want the CB and MIN may want to get ahead of WAS for Newton.  These smaller moves back are safer for Dallas unless of course they really want to target OL, then 17 makes the most sense.  To get to 9, we could do 17/28 for 9/71.  OUCH!!  Or 17/33/125 for 9/71.  That's too much.  Ironically I'd be fine with 17/28 for Miller but no not fine with either of those deals for Watt.

    Bottom line, I can't see us going to 9 for Watt.  We don't even know if BB thinks DL is a priority. 

    We've discussed Miller and Watt.  What about Quinn?  Mayock seems to think he's a 43 DE but a lot of 34 teams needing an OLB are interested in him.  If Quinn gets past SF at 7, there are no 34 teams needing an OLB until the Pats at 17 except maybe HOU at 11.  Also equally interesting, the only 43 team after 7 needing a DE are MIN (12) and JAX (16).  DET (13) may go Quinn if they don't get a CB or take OL.  If MIN takes a QB, Quinn could drop all the way to 16.  Do we leap frog JAX for him?

    Is there a case to be made where Quinn gets past 8?  If there is, he could free fall all the way to 16 unless someone moves up.  Candidates to move up are TB (20), NO (24) and NYG (19), and KC (21).  We would be in a great position to move up for Quinn if he falls past MIN.  If Watt goes and both Jordan and Quinn get past MIN, look out.  We could do something.  DET could very well take one of them then whomever is left makes it to 16.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Mbeaulieu07, I cant wait for draft day either! Also i wanted to thank you for initiating this thread soooo loooong ago! I am stationed in Afghanistan and check this thread when I can because its the ONLY Pats draft talk I can get! So thanks again to all of you, and keep on keeping the rest of us informed and/or amused!
    Posted by Quagmire3

    Yes, I want to echo what Mb said.  You are a hero!!!!  Thank you for your service.  Come home safe, there's another SB to win this year.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Here's a scenario that could easily unfold.  What if this happened, who do we take?

    14-3CARMarcell DareusDT
    24-3DENPatrick PetersonCB
    33-4BUFVon MillerOLB
    44-3CINCam NewtonQB
    53-4ARIBlaine GabbertQB
    64-3CLEAJ GreenWR
    73-4SFJulio JonesWR
    84-3TENNick FairleyDT
    93-4DALJJ WattDE
    103-4WASCameron JordanDE
    113-4HOUPrince AmukamaraCB
    124-3MINRobert QuinnDE
    134-3DETDa'Quan BowersDE
    144-3STLCorey LiugetDT
    153-4MIAMike PounceyOG
    164-3JAXAldon SmithOLB

    This would be a disaster.  The only options I see are an OT, Kerrigan, Ingram or a trade down.  Let's explore.

    If Tyron Smith  kills it at his Pro Day, he'd have to be considered.  Barely 20, he's a natural LT who played RT so BB will like that he can move him to either side.  He compares favorably for what we look for in an OT.  With an uncertain future with Light and Kaczur Smith has the most upside of the OTs IMO.  I think if BB were to pull the trigger on an OL type this high (15 spots higher than he has ever done it before), Smith would make the most sense for his upside and potential to be special.

    Smith 6-6, 307, 5.08, 29 reps 
    Vollmer 6-8, 312, 5.12 DNP reps

    We discussed Ryan Kerrigan a ton, does he fit standing up in a 34?  He's a great kid, called Superman by his team mates, he's a natural leader, co-captain.  He also fills a big need for us as a pass rusher.  But, the question has to be answered, does it fit into a 34?

    None of us like Mark Ingram at 17 much less 33.  But we have to consider the Heisman Trophy winner based on the Nick Saban connection and that all the guys at Alabama are emphatically saying that Ingram is the next Emmitt Smith.  Not just Saban and the Alabama people are saying this, Marshall Faulk has said it.  We have to consider that in 2009 Ingram broke the Alabama school record with 1,658 years and he did so against 6 top 25 ranked teams.  His down 2010 could be contributed to having his knee scoped just days before the start of the 2010 season.  He missed the first two games, but when he came back he scored a pair of TD in each of his first 3 games back.  He production also dipped because of the emergence of his Trent Richardson, but Ingram still averaged 5.6 ypc in the toughest conference. 

    Let's not forget BB drafted Maroney at 21, just 4 spots behind where we are.  Does BB value the opinion of Nick Saban and buy into the idea that Ingram could be the next Emmitt Smith?  If we wind the clock back one year a lot of us were drooling about the prospect of getting a high pick from the Raiders and being able to land Ingram.  Obvious that was before BJGE emerged and before Ingram had a "down" year.  I think we need to consider his at 17 if he gets past Miami.  TB is sitting at 20 and they'd be delighted to get him.  Brady isn't going to play forever and a young QB can really benefit from a power running game.  I'm not advocating we take Ingram or that BB would consider a RB this high again, I'm just throwing this out there.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I just got chastised by my brother for just saying Ingram's name.  He thinks we need to use 17/33 to move up to 7 to be sure we get Watt.  Then at 28 we take the best OT left, assuming there is one left.  My brother also thinks Wilkerson should be an option at 28 and didn't agree with my level of competition concerns.  My brother would rather have Wilkerson than Jordan.  I agree that Jordan is probably best suited as a 43 DE.

    JJ Watt one spot below where we got Richard Seymour is kind of ironic in that we'd be using the pick we got for Seymour plus a late 3rd that we converted to pick 33 because CAR was stupid.  Getting Watt at 7 would be basically getting him for Seymour and a late 3rd.  We would have lost Seymour after 2009 anyway so this is basically a 3rd and Comp 3rd if you look at what we gave up.

    JJ Watt is without doubt the best 5 technique option in the draft.  His 6 PDef is amazing for a DE.  All of them were batted balls which is almost as good as a sack because if they happen on 3rd down, they end the series.  His two FF and INT are also impressive.  Watt lives in the backfield, he disrupts plays, he has a non stop motor, he has Patriot written all over him.

    So, do we give up 33 to get him?  I guess we need to decide what we would do with 33 if we kept it.  If we are able to trade 28 down to a team looking to get back up for a QB or the SD deal, we could be back in the low 30s.  There could be no OTs left at 28 so we would be looking at OT at the back of the 2nd anyway.  We could take care of our interior OL needs with Watkins or Wisniewski or even later on with Moffitt, Schilling, Ijalana, etc.

    At 33 maybe Houston, Ayers, Wilson or a back like Ryan Williams or Mikel LeShoure we would lose out on.  We can always get a back later on.  Ayers doesn't impress me and Houston reminds me of Aaron Maybin or Larry English.

    My brother interviewed Greg Romeus the other day.  He claims that his back is 100% and his repaired ACL is on schedule to be ready for the start of 2011 season.  I know someone else threw his name out there so this isn't my idea but if healthy, Romeus could be an excellent reward over risk player in the 5th round.  He had 7 sacks in 2008 and 8 in 2009 before his senior year was pretty much erased by two injuries.

    At 17, we're in jail.  There is likely going to be nothing there to get excited about.  SF needs a NT, it's their #1 need.  PhilTaylor could be had at 17 before KC or NYJ.  They also need a C and Pouncey could make sense for them.  Then at 33 SF could address OLB or WR.  This would be a good move for them since they aren't going to get Miller or Peterson.  Someone is going to want to come up to 28 to get Ponder, Mallett or Locker.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Yes, I want to echo what Mb said.  You are a hero!!!!  Thank you for your service.  Come home safe, there's another SB to win this year.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Thank you brothers!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    The more we go through these mock excersise, the more I'm thinking that Kyle Rudolph is a legit option for them at 28 (assuming he's available).  While taking another TE might cause them to have to carry an extra TE for a year, maybe 2, I think this kid is everything BB looks for in a player, particularly at a position in which he's placed a high level of value, you can find room for these types of kids.  He's also represent both short term/long term value and you know BB is always thinking about today and tomorrow which it comes to team building.
     
    See that dead horse?  Bang, I just beat it again....Rudolph could = BPA, IMO. Ha
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    17- Wilkerson
    28- Rudolph
    33- Watkins
    60- Reed
    74- Vereen
    92- Carpenter
    4th- Elmore
    5th- Skrine
    6th- McElroy
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : pats 73, thanks for the respect you give us, yourself and 1210 for not taking it into the gutter (or street). hey 1210, how goes it.  we like to keep it friendly and respectful of each other around here(this thread in particular. there is no problem making a strong point, disagreeing, having an affinity for one posters offerings over another.  the written word, and the internet are not the ideal modes of effective communication, so misunderstandings abound.     if you feel misunderstood by someone, you can say so and why you feel that way and give the other person a chance to respond.  civility, good will, dignity and respect go a long way. we're all tough men and women when we need to be, but there's nothing to prove. peace 1210 and nice to meet you. ps. i agree with your point about de weight, and im open to hearing over and over from guys whove been around bb's proclivities. thanks for all the great posts today. i like it when its lively like this. cbdam/brdbreu
    Posted by brdbreu


    I have not had a chance to get on this board a lot this past few weeks but I had to comment on this one.

    Aside from the excellent insights that everyone here has had to offer, I think the next big factor in this thread's huge succes has been how everyone has stayed respectful with each other. People choose to be classy despite the disgreements.

    Shifting gears...
    I just saw the "real-time" mock draft that you guys did...was it yesterday?...that was awesome!!! good job guys!!!

    Lastly, someone commented on this thread being in the HoF of Boston.com discussion boards. Are you kidding me? This should be on the HoF of all threads of all discussion boards! Hats off to MB and everyone here!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Rudolph would make for some interesting formations. Hernandez, Rudolph, and Gronk on the field at the same time could be scary.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    The more we go through these mock excersise, the more I'm thinking that Kyle Rudolph is a legit option for them at 28 (assuming he's available).  While taking another TE might cause them to have to carry an extra TE for a year, maybe 2, I think this kid is everything BB looks for in a player, particularly at a position in which he's placed a high level of value, you can find room for these types of kids.  He's also represent both short term/long term value and you know BB is always thinking about today and tomorrow which it comes to team building.   See that dead horse?  Bang, I just beat it again....Rudolph could = BPA, IMO. Ha
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    You make a good case but I think IF we go that direction, why not wait until 33?  There is no body between 28 and 33 who needs a TE.  DEN and BUF at the top of Round 2 both need a TE and I had him going to DEN at 36.

    I was just about to come back to Carimi at 17 if all other options are gone.  Carimi is a power run blocker and if we're looking at roster stability, we have no less stable place than OL.  Neal - gone, Light - could be gone, Mankins - could hold out then be gone in 2011, Kaczur - could be cut, Koppen - F/A after 2011 and is set to make $5.5MM this year, Connolly - F/A after 2011, LeVoir - set to be F/A after 2011. 

    Our DL is stable contractually with everyone signed through at least 2012 with our projected starters, Wilfork, Warren and Deaderick signed past 2013.  We also have some instability at WR with Branch and Welker set to be F/A after 2011 and at S with Meriweather and Sanders set to become F/As after 2011. 

    This has me, reluctantly, going with OL at 17 if we aren't going to make a splash by trading up for Watt or Miller.

    If I'm to come around on Wilkerson, there is no need to take him before 28 unless we believe SD is taking him at 18 because there are no 34 teams who need a DE until the Jets at 30.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : You make a good case but I think IF we go that direction, why not wait until 33?  There is no body between 28 and 33 who needs a TE.  DEN and BUF at the top of Round 2 both need a TE and I had him going to DEN at 36. I was just about to come back to Carimi at 17 if all other options are gone.  Carimi is a power run blocker and if we're looking at roster stability, we have no less stable place than OL.  Neal - gone, Light - could be gone, Mankins - could hold out then be gone in 2011, Kaczur - could be cut, Koppen - F/A after 2011 and is set to make $5.5MM this year, Connolly - F/A after 2011, LeVoir - set to be F/A after 2011.  Our DL is stable contractually with everyone signed through at least 2012 with our projected starters, Wilfork, Warren and Deaderick signed past 2013.  We also have some instability at WR with Branch and Welker set to be F/A after 2011 and at S with Meriweather and Sanders set to become F/As after 2011.  This has me, reluctantly, going with OL at 17 if we aren't going to make a splash by trading up for Watt or Miller. If I'm to come around on Wilkerson, there is no need to take him before 28 unless we believe SD is taking him at 18 because there are no 34 teams who need a DE until the Jets at 30.
    Posted by Faucetman


    33 is an option for sure, however I'm thinking that they spin that pick for additional selections to kick off day 2.

    I'm with you on OL, Castonzo, Carimi and Pouncey etc., they make a lot of sense in the 17-28 range, assuming they are high on one of these kids.

    As for your trade up scenario, I'm starting to come around on it a bit from the aspect of, this class is not nearly as deep with potential impact Rd 1 talent as last year so trading back with the expectation of landing a DMC type impact player might not be realistic. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I have not had a chance to get on this board a lot this past few weeks but I had to comment on this one. Aside from the excellent insights that everyone here has had to offer, I think the next big factor in this thread's huge succes has been how everyone has stayed respectful with each other. People choose to be classy despite the disgreements. Shifting gears... I just saw the "real-time" mock draft that you guys did...was it yesterday?...that was awesome!!! good job guys!!! Lastly, someone commented on this thread being in the HoF of Boston.com discussion boards. Are you kidding me? This should be on the HoF of all threads of all discussion boards! Hats off to MB and everyone here!
    Posted by seattlepat70


    Thanks man!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Here's a look at a defensive depth chart with age and contract year.  As a unit, our defense is stable contractually.  We have just one starter, Meriweather, set to be a free agent after 2011.  We don't really have any other key free agents after 2011 except Guyton and Sanders, two situational guys.  More than half, 6, of our defensive starters are under 25.  Let's not discount the fact they they will improve.  Couple that with Bodden and Warren coming back and a case could be made that our D should be top 15 next year.

    DEFENSE 25 Players
    DE 30 T Warren '1329 Wright '1225 Love '12
    NT29 Wilfork '1424 Brace '1225 Pryor '12
    DE24 Deaderick '1331 Stroud '12 
    OLB27 Ninkovich '1131 Banta-Cain '12 
    ILB25 Mayo '1225 Guyton '11 
    ILB24 B Spikes '1325 Fletcher '12 
    OLB23 Cunningham '1330 Eric Moore '11 
    LCB24 McCourty '1427 Wilhite '11 
    RCB30 Bodden '1325 Arrington '1325 Butler '12
    SS24 Chung '1226 Page '10 
    FS27 Meriweather '1127 Sanders '11 

    If we are looking for a rookie to step in day 1 and beat out a current starter where do we look?  Watt beats out Deaderick, I'm not sure if Wilkerson or the other choices would.  Kerrigan beats out Ninko or Cunningham.  Does Reed beat either out?  Maybe.  Wilson may beat out the Spikes/Guyton tandem.  But if we take a step back and look at the positions where we are drafting I don't see a lot of opportunities to get better on defense through the draft.  If lucky we can find 1, maybe 2 upgrades but Watt is the only safe pick IMO to become an impact player the first year.  Kerrigan, Houston, Reed and the like are all conversion types and will take time for them to learn the position.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Here's a scenario that could easily unfold.  What if this happened, who do we take? 1 4-3 CAR Marcell Dareus DT 2 4-3 DEN Patrick Peterson CB 3 3-4 BUF Von Miller OLB 4 4-3 CIN Cam Newton QB 5 3-4 ARI Blaine Gabbert QB 6 4-3 CLE AJ Green WR 7 3-4 SF Julio Jones WR 8 4-3 TEN Nick Fairley DT 9 3-4 DAL JJ Watt DE 10 3-4 WAS Cameron Jordan DE 11 3-4 HOU Prince Amukamara CB 12 4-3 MIN Robert Quinn DE 13 4-3 DET Da'Quan Bowers DE 14 4-3 STL Corey Liuget DT 15 3-4 MIA Mike Pouncey OG 16 4-3 JAX Aldon Smith OLB This would be a disaster....Posted by Faucetman


    The last time I actually contributed to the draft discussion (Wow, that feels like it's been ages), I was saying that Watt could be available at 17.

    Now with the CBA probably not happening before draft - i.e., no trading picks for players - I have to agree with you guys. Two things have to happen for Watt to be available even at #12 (MIN). First, Dallas keeps to what J Jones said a while back about taking an OT (all this time, they likely already changed their minds), Secondly, A third QB gets taken before the MIN pick. 

    With respect to the picks above, I had the same order through SFF. However, I believe that TEN also is in dire need of a QB. And if they do not pick a QB, I feel that Quinn is the better fit. They are 29th on pass D. If they want to fix that via the DL, I would think outside pass rush would be the better option vs taking the interior route. Not considering who they might have on IR, I think Quinn would be the guy they really want outside of a QB.

    Dallas, I've covered.

    WAS is a question again of how badly they need a QB, and whether they think their next QB will be available on their second turn to pick. I am really hoping that Shanahan sees some Elway in either Mallet or Locker (I'd be LMAO if Locker gets picked here).

    If not a QB, this is the team who could have a huge motivation for taking Watt. I believe they already let go of Haynesworth. This could pave the way for a full transition to 3-4 (I am getting sick writing this.). If this is so, then they need a huge upgrade at RDE where they would have a 35 yr old, 285 lb starter. Wilkerson would be too much of a reach. Jordan is a possibility, but I believe Watt has overtaken Jordan if basing on grade alone. 

    What this boils down to is that if Watt is the target, you are right...Dallas is the trade you want.







     
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    bill belicheck said after the nasty ben watson contract situation that he would never draft a player who was represented by condon. two player represented by condon who would fit extremely well with the pats are jj watt and costanzo. true to his word he hasnt drafted a condon represented player since ben watson. of course this doesnt matter if they institute a rookie pay scale. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    keep an eye out for sf free agent olb manny lawson as a possible signing and also keep an eye out on carolina wr steve smith, who carolina has put on the trading block. i have a good feeling one of the two will be in a pats uniform.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : "The end of the podcast was the best when one guy was whining about that Pats needing blue chippers and should package a bunch of picks etc and not trade down in this draft even once. Then the other two guys basically torched him lol " yup, thst's our board! whose pod low? not sure i get the meaning here: "Also apparently there is still quite a bit of concern by some of Quinn's brain tumor and not so much by other, according to them. " how many here would pass on quinn at 17? de is more important slightly, but if it goes this way, quinn is dominant at this position. mayock says hes the best edge rusher in the draft and plays the run well. if he and watt were availble at 17, i think i'd have a system overload and coul dnt make the pick ( de is a slight higher priority for me, but quinn is the quintessential player at the olb position in this draft i think). i still say is there a way to get to 9, earliest watt would go, but dallas has high need to protect romo and strong db need. jordan watkins is not terrible, would liek to see their 33 pick bunting has usat watt andwatkins in rd 1.
    Posted by brdbreu


    It was Matt Bitonti from Draft Daddy, Shane Hallum from draftcountdown and i forget who the other one was. It was the other guy whining about the pats not going for blue chippers and the two i mentioned torching him.

    The point about Quin had nothing to do about his talent. Rumors that some teams have removed him from their board or lowered him significantly because if he has an issue with the tumor in his head again it will require removal and some hardware to be put in and his career is over at that point.

    They said every team has done an independent analysis of him during the combine and they each have their own opinions much like any other issue with any other player.

    Well as far as who wouldn't take him at 17? If i had a staff of physicians to tell me go/no go and it was no go i would not take him. That was the point of the comment.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : 33 is an option for sure, however I'm thinking that they spin that pick for additional selections to kick off day 2. I'm with you on OL, Castonzo, Carimi and Pouncey etc., they make a lot of sense in the 17-28 range, assuming they are high on one of these kids. As for your trade up scenario, I'm starting to come around on it a bit from the aspect of, this class is not nearly as deep with potential impact Rd 1 talent as last year so trading back with the expectation of landing a DMC type impact player might not be realistic. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Wow Mb, I'm surprised to you hear might be coming around on the trade up idea.  I'm for it for the right player who can come in and make an immediate or near immediate impact.  But, I'm tempered with the knowledge that BB almost never makes a big move up in the first 2 rounds.  He only did it twice, for Daniel Graham and for Chad Jackson and that was a long time ago.

    I do think he'll be working the phones trying to get a good deal but otherwise he will stay put or trade down with trade down being more than 50% likely given recent behavior.  We traded back with our first pick the past three drafts having traded back twice before making our first selection each of the past two drafts. 
    The only thing that gives me any hope that this year may be different is he's been trying to find Seymour's replacement having drafted Deaderick and signing free agents GWarren and MStroud.  Just maybe he likes Watt and what's not to like if your BB.

    Assuming a trade back, what are our likely options?  I think the choices are many.  If no OTs are off the board, a number of teams including KC, PHI, SEA and BAL could want to move up for their first choice.  IND never trades and they are taking OL so PHI, BAL and even CHI and PIT could come up. I think the cost would be prohibitive for PIT or CHI.  They can't get their with their 2nd.  But BAL on down could.




     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : We could live with this.  It is a little early for Watkins IMO but he certainly is an excellent pick and hedge for the Mankins/Light situation.  If Watt is going at 9, that's too far to move up.  Jordan should be able to add 15 lbs and get over 300.  If he does, he could be a force.
    Posted by Faucetman



    Sure that's true and i have never had any issue with the Watkins age thing. It was either going to be Watkins or Sherrod there.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    bill belicheck said after the nasty ben watson contract situation that he would never draft a player who was represented by condon. two player represented by condon who would fit extremely well with the pats are jj watt and costanzo. true to his word he hasnt drafted a condon represented player since ben watson. of course this doesnt matter if they institute a rookie pay scale. 
    Posted by isurfvb35

    If so, I don't think the rookie pay scale would apply to this year since the CBA would occur after the draft.  It would probably start in 2012.  If BB passes on Watt because of Condon it won't be the only reason.  He would pass based on the stability and youth he has on defense as I recently pointed out.  Half of our DL is 25 or younger.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Low, Good stuff, what are your thoughts on Jarvis Jenkins (on of the better Rd 2-3 DL options, IMO and has the ideal size at 6-4 310) and Ricky Elmore (another big motor kid, hustle type, with good size and first step from the Desert Swarm, had 25.5 Sacks, 33.5 TFL in his career, could be a Rd 4-5 OLB option, IMO).
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    Thanks for catching that. Jenkins was originally on the list from the first time I posted it. He must have gotten lost in the edits and organization.

    Elmore should be on the list but i simply forgot about him. I had commented long ago that when i was trying to watch Brooks, Elmore kept beating him to the QB but that blocking might have been rolled to Reeds side.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Here's a look at our offensive depth chart with age and contractual stability.  Unlike our defense where we have only 2 starters right at 30, we have 5 over 30.  Unlike our defense where we have just two starters, Ninkovich and Meriweather set to become free agents after 2011, we have 5 set to become free agents after the season on offense.  Keeping Brady upright and healthy and surrounded by weapons is not a bad strategy.  There is something to be said for jumping out on top in most games and forcing the opponent into a predictable passing game.  The problem with that last year is we couldn't stop the pass. 

    Defensively we are returning 25 key players, our full compliment.  I'm not saying some can't be upgraded but offensively we are returning just 21.  So we need to draft at least 4 offensive players that make the team, 2 OL and 2 RB without the need to cut anyone or relying on an uncertain free agent market.

      2011 Patriots
    OFFENSE 21 Players
    Slot30 Welker '1125 Edelman '12 
    WR32 Branch '1123 Price '13 
    LOT27 Vollmer '1229 LeVoir '11 
    LOG29 Mankins '1125 Ohrnberger '12 
    C31 Koppen '11 
    ROG29 D Connolly '1125 Wendell '13 
    RT32 Kaczur '12  
    TE22 Gronkowski '1321 Hernandez '1333 Crumpler '11
    QB34 Tom Brady '1425 Hoyer '11 
    RB26 Green-Ellis '10  
    26 Woodhead '12  
    WR23 B Tate '1226 Slater '11 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    I just got chastised by my brother for just saying Ingram's name.  He thinks we need to use 17/33 to move up to 7 to be sure we get Watt.  Then at 28 we take the best OT left, assuming there is one left.  My brother also thinks Wilkerson should be an option at 28 and didn't agree with my level of competition concerns.  My brother would rather have Wilkerson than Jordan.  I agree that Jordan is probably best suited as a 43 DE. JJ Watt one spot below where we got Richard Seymour is kind of ironic in that we'd be using the pick we got for Seymour plus a late 3rd that we converted to pick 33 because CAR was stupid.  Getting Watt at 7 would be basically getting him for Seymour and a late 3rd.  We would have lost Seymour after 2009 anyway so this is basically a 3rd and Comp 3rd if you look at what we gave up. JJ Watt is without doubt the best 5 technique option in the draft.  His 6 PDef is amazing for a DE.  All of them were batted balls which is almost as good as a sack because if they happen on 3rd down, they end the series.  His two FF and INT are also impressive.  Watt lives in the backfield, he disrupts plays, he has a non stop motor, he has Patriot written all over him. So, do we give up 33 to get him?  I guess we need to decide what we would do with 33 if we kept it.  If we are able to trade 28 down to a team looking to get back up for a QB or the SD deal, we could be back in the low 30s.  There could be no OTs left at 28 so we would be looking at OT at the back of the 2nd anyway.  We could take care of our interior OL needs with Watkins or Wisniewski or even later on with Moffitt, Schilling, Ijalana, etc. At 33 maybe Houston, Ayers, Wilson or a back like Ryan Williams or Mikel LeShoure we would lose out on.  We can always get a back later on.  Ayers doesn't impress me and Houston reminds me of Aaron Maybin or Larry English. My brother interviewed Greg Romeus the other day.  He claims that his back is 100% and his repaired ACL is on schedule to be ready for the start of 2011 season.  I know someone else threw his name out there so this isn't my idea but if healthy, Romeus could be an excellent reward over risk player in the 5th round.  He had 7 sacks in 2008 and 8 in 2009 before his senior year was pretty much erased by two injuries. At 17, we're in jail.  There is likely going to be nothing there to get excited about.  SF needs a NT, it's their #1 need.  PhilTaylor could be had at 17 before KC or NYJ.  They also need a C and Pouncey could make sense for them.  Then at 33 SF could address OLB or WR.  This would be a good move for them since they aren't going to get Miller or Peterson.  Someone is going to want to come up to 28 to get Ponder, Mallett or Locker.
    Posted by Faucetman



    I see Panic runs in the family :) Sorry my friend, I couldn't resit that one. Ha!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Pats could use lots...on offense downfield WR (Tate doesn't cut it).  RB with speed and power...maybe not avasilable this year Woodie and BJGE not enough. Tackle and Guard (Light and Mankins probably on way out...OT a problem in this draft...should try to keep Mankins a real stud.  On defense...a pass rusher ...true star  maybe not available at 17.  What they don't need is more lower picks upper first round true talent.  Loosing Mankins would be a sin and trading down and missing a player like Matthews was inexcuseable.  Sure McCortney is great but how many failures...2nd and 3rd round draft choices were wasted after dumping all pro Samuels?  BB brags that he has the best W/L record in the last 10 years but the Lombardi trophies are in the past.  Playmakers win post season games not trade downs.  It hasn't worked in 7 years. Why should it work now?  Solution...take both seconds and bundle them with both firsts and end up with 2 top number first 10 or 12 choices.
     
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