2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Who's discounting them?  It is been stated BB has a history of not drafting guys under 300 in the 1st round.  If you read and are a regular here would notice plenty of us would like to go after Watt and Jordan second. I'll leave it at that before I write something that we stay away from on this thread so instead will just say ur input is always welcomed. 
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]


    pats 73,
    thanks for the respect you give us, yourself and 1210 for not taking it into the gutter (or street).

    hey 1210,
    how goes it.  we like to keep it friendly and respectful of each other around here(this thread in particular. there is no problem making a strong point, disagreeing, having an affinity for one posters offerings over another.  the written word, and the internet are not the ideal modes of effective communication, so misunderstandings abound.
        if you feel misunderstood by someone, you can say so and why you feel that way and give the other person a chance to respond.  civility, good will, dignity and respect go a long way. we're all tough men and women when we need to be, but there's nothing to prove. peace 1210 and nice to meet you.
    ps. i agree with your point about de weight, and im open to hearing over and over from guys whove been around bb's proclivities.


    thanks for all the great posts today.
    i like it when its lively like this.


    cbdam/brdbreu
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I like Mike Mayock.  I probably respect him more than all the other draft experts.  Kiper is a joke, I don't even listen to him and I don't feel much more for McShay.  But Mayock by his own admission only follows seniors until underclassmen declare.  It takes him weeks if not right up to the draft to do his homework on juniors and RS sophomores.  The only time I ever hear Mayock talking about Wilkerson he references the Penn State game.  Yes, Wilkerson had a great game against Penn State, I'm not checking but I think he had 9 tackles, no sacks.  Penn State was easily the best team Temple faced so everyone was up for that game.  But, stopping the run isn't our problem.  We ranked 11th or 12th last year.  We need a 3 front line to be able to push the pocket and command double teams.  I'll be honest, I never saw Wilkerson play.  As a junior he wasn't at any of the all star games.  I saw him at the Combine and on the hoof, he looks the part but I'm a stats guy and the sheet on Wilkerson isn't great.  8 of 10 sacks coming against absolute dogs.  He's a supposed 1st round pick.  How many OL types that he got sacks against are even going to be drafted?  ZERO!!! Yes he faced Villinova and Penn State so likely went up against Wisniewski and Ijalana at some point during the game but how many sacks did he have in those games?  ZERO, nada. none. I'm no draft expert but I have been following the Patriots since 1975 and used to actually go to the draft from 81-87.  My brother and I would drive down from Maine and camp outside the Marriott Marquis.  We were all decked out in Pats gear and were always being interview by EPSN after every Patriot's pick.  We were the one to blame for the Patriots selecting Mike Ruth; not our finest moment.  The Pats were on the clock and at my brother's urging, we both kept chanting "Ruth, Ruth, Ruth" and the guys manning the phones for the Pats kept looking back at us.  ESPN even showed us before and after the pick.  I think we helped influence them but God, I hope not. Okay, I'm rambling on again.  My point is, I'm just a big Pat's fan and I love the draft.  I've been right about a lot of players, good and bad and I've been wrong about some players.  Wilkerson scares me.  He could be great and if he went up against SEC competition and put up 10 sacks I'd be on board with him.  I'm with you buddy, no Wilk and let's go get Watt.  I'm not all in but in enough to say 17/74 to 12 if he's there.  I'd do this move for Jones too.  Fairley worries me but I watched him all year long and this year, he was a beast.  If he's there at 12 huge risk/reward pick. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    mr faucet,
     


    ''im with you buddy, no Wilk and let's go get Watt.  I'm not all in but in enough to say 17/74 to 12 if he's there.  I'd do this move for Jones too.  Fairley worries me but I watched him all year long and this year, he was a beast.  If he's there at 12 huge risk/reward pick. "


    --it! i love it! when the gloves come off and you can explore all kinds of ideas some might sometimes reflexively reject.

    so youll only go to 12 with watt? i think if we dont know for sure where houston is going we can ask there if need be.

    now youre the only one i think willing to consider with me fairley at 12.

    vs watt, what do we gain in performance minus the type of person , and player (plays off).

    this minus that equals fairley on top?,  a wash or near wash?, watt on top?
    some players are able to be influenced some are less so. bb has taken guys without great character before and done well and also not done well with others in effecting their behavior.

    its worth a long consideration i think. fairley is a good deal more dominant against doubles i believe. they are both athletic. fairley bigger.
    i think it comes down to (if both are there at 12) can fairley learn the patriot way.  bb has to make that assessment and make it right.

    i would not take a stud receiver. if we come away with jones, we dont get a pass rush and have to score so much and hope teams dont keep us off the field for 3/4 of the game, like the good ones can. so no. not until the horses are in the barn that can pressure the qb at de AND olb CONSISTENTLY, AND, we get at least 2 lineman who can stop the floodgates on brady.

    try fa. smith or rice.

    peace brother,

    cbdam/brdbreu


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Here is the results of an interesting live podcast 1st round mock draft done in round robin style by three draftnik website owners this evening. You can see the QB's really mess things up. Also apparently there is still quite a bit of concern by some of Quinn's brain tumor and not so much by other, according to them. They also though that Bowers and Heywards stock was floundering around a bit right now until they can work out for teams. Then they will either move up or down obviously. 1  marcel dareus 2  von miller 3  cam newton 4  nick fairly 5  patrick peterson 6  julio jones 7  jake locker 8  blaine gabbert 9  jj watt 10 aj green 11 prince amukamara 12 daquan bowers 13 tyron smith 14 aldon smith 15 mike pouncey 16 ryan mallet 17 cameron jordan 18 cameron heyward 19 anthony costanzo 20 robert quinn 21 ryan kerrigan 22 gabe carimi 23 jimmy smith 24 justin houston 25 nate solder 26 mark ingram 27 leonard hankerson 28 danny watkins 29 corey liuget 30 brooks reed 31 derrick sherrod 32 adrian clayborn The end of the podcast was the best when one guy was whining about that Pats needing blue chippers and should package a bunch of picks etc and not trade down in this draft even once. Then the other two guys basically torched him lol
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    "The end of the podcast was the best when one guy was whining about that Pats needing blue chippers and should package a bunch of picks etc and not trade down in this draft even once.

    Then the other two guys basically torched him lol "


    yup, thst's our board! whose pod low?

    not sure i get the meaning here:
    "Also apparently there is still quite a bit of concern by some of Quinn's brain tumor and not so much by other, according to them. "

    how many here would pass on quinn at 17?
    de is more important slightly, but if it goes this way, quinn is dominant at this position. mayock says hes the best edge rusher in the draft and plays the run well.
    if he and watt were availble at 17, i think i'd have a system overload and coul dnt make the pick ( de is a slight higher priority for me, but quinn is the quintessential player at the olb position in this draft i think).

    i still say is there a way to get to 9, earliest watt would go, but dallas has high need to protect romo and strong db need.


    jordan watkins is not terrible, would liek to see their 33 pick
    bunting has usat watt andwatkins in rd 1.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I feel your passion man...I hope that didn't come across wrong!.. Anyhow, I'm with you. It's going to take a really bold move up for Miller (5), a bold move up for Watt (9), and probably a liveable move up for Quinn (11/12). Sitting at 17 and even trading up a spot or two isn't going to get us much. The 2 teams in front of us are not threatening, unless San Diego tries to leap frog. So, you may want to go 2 spots for Jordan if he is the guy. If we want Watt, we have to worry starting at 9 with Dallas, and continuing with 10 (Washington) and 11 (Houston)...All 3-4 teams, all in need of a DE. I would argue however that Houston is probably more in need of a Phil Taylor (NT), than a guy like Watt, but Watt would still serve a valuable purpose especially with the pillsberry doughboy taking over the D.  Therefore, if Watt is our guy, I think we need to insure he doesn't go to Dallas starting at 9 and going through Houston at 11. I think 12 is too late. If we want him, we need to do 17/60/124 (even then we would be a bit short, but Dallas might take it.) On the other hand, if Jordan is our guy, I am 75/25 he makes it to 17. Jacksonville could be a threat, but I think they go Kerrigan..what about 9-11 with all those 3-4 teams packed in there?....I don' think he goes that early. I think our little community mock proved that (thanks Pats7393 for starting). My brain is racked over trying to figure out what BB might do. I have a ton of respect for the guy and can imagine the preparation he and his team go through to get to this point. Before I post my mock, or what I think could happen, can anyone give me an objective opinion on Watt vs. Jordan in our defense? Which guy do you believe has the most value/versatility to us, and please consider potential draft position as well...forthis one, lets assume Watt at 9 and Jordan t 17.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    hey patslife,
      sorry i posted this same thing tonight before i got to this point in the thread (but i have posted it before as well)

    "Therefore, if Watt is our guy, I think we need to insure he doesn't go to Dallas starting at 9 and going through Houston at 11. I think 12 is too late."

    get back to you on watt jordan.
    draftwise i think 40-60 jordan makes it to 17
    watt 30-70

    but watt is rising.
    jordan is just vaulued differently by different people (as high as top 10)

    jordan was dominating, and throws people around. strong.
    watts athleticism during games and attitude stick out as big plusses.

    i'd like to know both their football aptitude andkind of locker room guy/teamate they are. (i'm sure bbwill know. doesnt help our mock / your mock though).
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Is good to see that after all this time...most of us are agreeing that its time.to get 1st tier players to be able to put a rush on QB's and help the DB's... MIller..Quinn..Watt..Jordan...( please no Wilkinson as i believe we have that type already) would be an extreme improvement over what we have had......Then use the remaining chocies to fill out OL and RB...


    Going to be fun....Hagd all
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Mb, get to work.  You've been on here all day:))
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Ha! Slow day at the office = more time for draft talk, it's a win/win!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Here is the results of an interesting live podcast 1st round mock draft done in round robin style by three draftnik website owners this evening. You can see the QB's really mess things up. Also apparently there is still quite a bit of concern by some of Quinn's brain tumor and not so much by other, according to them. They also though that Bowers and Heywards stock was floundering around a bit right now until they can work out for teams. Then they will either move up or down obviously. 1  marcel dareus 2  von miller 3  cam newton 4  nick fairly 5  patrick peterson 6  julio jones 7  jake locker 8  blaine gabbert 9  jj watt 10 aj green 11 prince amukamara 12 daquan bowers 13 tyron smith 14 aldon smith 15 mike pouncey 16 ryan mallet 17 cameron jordan 18 cameron heyward 19 anthony costanzo 20 robert quinn 21 ryan kerrigan 22 gabe carimi 23 jimmy smith 24 justin houston 25 nate solder 26 mark ingram 27 leonard hankerson 28 danny watkins 29 corey liuget 30 brooks reed 31 derrick sherrod 32 adrian clayborn The end of the podcast was the best when one guy was whining about that Pats needing blue chippers and should package a bunch of picks etc and not trade down in this draft even once. Then the other two guys basically torched him lol
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]
    We could live with this.  It is a little early for Watkins IMO but he certainly is an excellent pick and hedge for the Mankins/Light situation.  If Watt is going at 9, that's too far to move up.  Jordan should be able to add 15 lbs and get over 300.  If he does, he could be a force.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    To touch on a recent topic.  Thanks all for keeping this thread respectful and interactive, it's success is possible due to the freedom to trade differing opinions, philosophies and ideas without the childish insults, name calling and cyber "toughguyness" that goes on, on a lot of the BDC threads.


    Thanks again and man, I can't wait for April 28 to get here!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]in case anyone was interested in my own lil NE specific fantasy board, here it is... You'll notice i have a handful of players playing different positions. I am always modifying it so if anyone know of any really negative things about a particular player on the list, let me know. DE JJ Watt (1) Cameron Jordan (1) Muhammad Wilkerson (1-2) Cameron Heyward (1-2) Phil Taylor (1-2) Lawrence Guy (3) OT Gabe Carimi (1) Anthony Castonzo (1) Derrick Sherrod (1-2) Orlando Franklin (2) Marcus Gilbert (3-4) Sub Inside Pass rusher Allen Baily (2-3) OG Danny Watkins (1-2) Clint Boling (2-3) Ben Ijalana (2) James Carpenter (3) John Moffit (3-4) Will Rackley (4) Stephen Schilling (4) Andrew Jackson (6-7) WR Torrey Smith (1-2) Randall Cobb (2) Leonard Hankerson (2-3) Edmund Gates (3) Greg Salas (4) Dane Sanzenbacher (5-6) Jeremy Kerley (5) Cecil Shorts (5-6) Jeff Maehl (6) OG/C Mike Pouncey (1-2) Stefen Wisniewski (2) All-around RB (mid round) Shane Vereen (3) Kendall Hunter (2-3) Jordan Todman (3) RB (Later round) Roy Helu (4) Derrick Locke (5) Alex Green (6) Owen Marecic (5-6) TE Virgil Green (4) OLB Justin Houston (1-2) Ryan Kerrigan (1-2) Jabaal Sheard (2) Brooks Reed (2) Sam Acho (2-3) Greg Romeus (4-5) ILB Mark Herzlich (4-5) Mason Foster (3-4) Sub Outside Pass rusher Martez Wilson (1-2) Chris Carter (3) Dontay Moch (3) CB Curtis Brown (2) Davon House (2-3) Buster Skrine (3-4) Chykie Brown (3-4) Cortez Allen (4-5) S Aaron Williams (2-3) Rahim Moore (2-3) Quinton Carter (3) Jaiquawn Jarrett (4-5) Shilo Keo (6) Mark LeGree (7-FA) QB Greg McElroy (5) Outside the box thinking Adrian Clayborn(slimmed down) as OLB (1) It's Gonna Cost Ya Marcel Dareus (1) Von Miller (1) AJ Green (1) Julio Jones (1) Mark Ingram (1)
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Low,
    Good stuff, what are your thoughts on Jarvis Jenkins (on of the better Rd 2-3 DL options, IMO and has the ideal size at 6-4 310) and Ricky Elmore (another big motor kid, hustle type, with good size and first step from the Desert Swarm, had 25.5 Sacks, 33.5 TFL in his career, could be a Rd 4-5 OLB option, IMO).
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : How did we get stiffed on not getting anything for Watson?
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Because;
    A) Ben Watson sucks, that is why he was released after the season ended, and B) because we lost Watson and signed Alge Crumpler. Its a wash.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]To touch on a recent topic.  Thanks all for keeping this thread respectful and interactive, it's success is possible due to the freedom to trade differing opinions, philosophies and ideas without the childish insults, name calling and cyber "toughguyness" that goes on, on a lot of the BDC threads. Thanks again and man, I can't wait for April 28 to get here!
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Mbeaulieu07, I cant wait for draft day either! Also i wanted to thank you for initiating this thread soooo loooong ago! I am stationed in Afghanistan and check this thread when I can because its the ONLY Pats draft talk I can get! So thanks again to all of you, and keep on keeping the rest of us informed and/or amused!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Mbeaulieu07, I cant wait for draft day either! Also i wanted to thank you for initiating this thread soooo loooong ago! I am stationed in Afghanistan and check this thread when I can because its the ONLY Pats draft talk I can get! So thanks again to all of you, and keep on keeping the rest of us informed and/or amused!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    And thank you for doing the real work to keep this country free, be safe out there!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : hey patslife,   sorry i posted this same thing tonight before i got to this point in the thread (but i have posted it before as well) "Therefore, if Watt is our guy, I think we need to insure he doesn't go to Dallas starting at 9 and going through Houston at 11. I think 12 is too late." get back to you on watt jordan. draftwise i think 40-60 jordan makes it to 17 watt 30-70 but watt is rising. jordan is just vaulued differently by different people (as high as top 10) jordan was dominating, and throws people around. strong. watts athleticism during games and attitude stick out as big plusses. i'd like to know both their football aptitude andkind of locker room guy/teamate they are. (i'm sure bbwill know. doesnt help our mock / your mock though).
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]
    Both are solid character guys, clean off the field, hard working, devoted, smart and good team mates.  I don't see any separation in them from an intangibles perspective.  It depends on who fits better within your organization.  I think Jordan would be more attractive to 43 teams where Watt is more attractive to 34 teams but either player can play end or kick inside in nickel formations. 

    Going to 9 to get Watt isn't a clean move for us.  I agree Houston is a huge threat to take him but so is Dallas and so is Washington.  Houston had one of the worst defenses last year.  One mock I saw has Dallas taking Jordan, Washington taking Newton, Houston taking Amukamara and Watt sliding to us.  Some 34 teams may prefer Jordan since he is the better pass rusher.  But I don't think Watt is going to make it to 17.  SD sitting at 18 with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds could easily move up if they like Watt. 

    Miami at 15 would like to trade down.  Pouncey and Ingram make the most sense for them and both could be had at 17 or 18.  SD could offer them 18/89 where we'd be offering 17/92, the edge would go to SD even though we'd be offering more points.  STL at 14 is an option.  They would also like Pouncey if Jones is gone.  They may also want Corey Liuget and 14 is too high for him.  But again, the best play is MIN at 12.  SD could offer 18/61 which is 1192 points where pick 12 is worth 1200.  17/74 is worth only 1170.  17/60 is worth 1250.  Is Watt worth our late 2nd?

    Another big problem that is brewing is a few of the elite players appear to be dropping.  Bowers has the knee concern.  Quinn has the brain tumor issue (although most think he's ok) and didn't play last year.  Fairley is being questioned as a one year wonder as is Bowers and Fairley's work ethic has been called into question.  Mayock said he wouldn't touch him in the first round and he has the "dirty player" rap.  For Watt to have any chance of getting to 12 those three guys need to go ahead of him along with the two QBs.

    Dareus, Peterson, Miller, Gabbert, Newton, Green, Jones, Amukamara; that's 8 sure bets to be gone by 12.  I think Quinn isn't in as much danger of falling so that's 9.  So, who takes a chance on Bowers and Fairley?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I feel your passion man...I hope that didn't come across wrong!.. Anyhow, I'm with you. It's going to take a really bold move up for Miller (5), a bold move up for Watt (9), and probably a liveable move up for Quinn (11/12). Sitting at 17 and even trading up a spot or two isn't going to get us much. The 2 teams in front of us are not threatening, unless San Diego tries to leap frog. So, you may want to go 2 spots for Jordan if he is the guy. If we want Watt, we have to worry starting at 9 with Dallas, and continuing with 10 (Washington) and 11 (Houston)...All 3-4 teams, all in need of a DE. I would argue however that Houston is probably more in need of a Phil Taylor (NT), than a guy like Watt, but Watt would still serve a valuable purpose especially with the pillsberry doughboy taking over the D.  Therefore, if Watt is our guy, I think we need to insure he doesn't go to Dallas starting at 9 and going through Houston at 11. I think 12 is too late. If we want him, we need to do 17/60/124 (even then we would be a bit short, but Dallas might take it.) On the other hand, if Jordan is our guy, I am 75/25 he makes it to 17. Jacksonville could be a threat, but I think they go Kerrigan..what about 9-11 with all those 3-4 teams packed in there?....I don' think he goes that early. I think our little community mock proved that (thanks Pats7393 for starting). My brain is racked over trying to figure out what BB might do. I have a ton of respect for the guy and can imagine the preparation he and his team go through to get to this point. Before I post my mock, or what I think could happen, can anyone give me an objective opinion on Watt vs. Jordan in our defense? Which guy do you believe has the most value/versatility to us, and please consider potential draft position as well...forthis one, lets assume Watt at 9 and Jordan t 17.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    Thanks, we are all passionate.  I like Watt better than Jordan as I've stated but Watt at 9 giving up 17/60/124 vs. Jordan at 17, if those were choices, I'd stay put at 17 and take Jordan.  By the way, we now know we are at 125 with only one 3rd round comp pick awarded.

    If Watt is a must (and I'm not saying he is) we have to find a way to get there without giving up 3 picks.  We must also consider Dallas' needs.  They aren't going to move out of 9 unless they see they can get the player they want.  Dallas' top needs IMO are DE, OT, CB, OG, FS, SS in that order.  They never take OL in the 1st and there are no safeties worthy of a 1st.  This means Dallas has to see a CB or DE at 17 that makes sense to them unless they are finally going to break their pattern and take a Pouncey or OT at 17.  Dallas might be willing to take a shot at Jimmy Smith at 17 but they have to assume DET won't reach for their top need, CB. 

    We know two teams expressed interest in moving up to 9.  I only assume it was a team looking to take Amukamara, but we shouldn't rule out Quinn, Jones or Newton being the target.  STL may want to jump ahead of WAS for Jones.  HOU and DET want the CB and MIN may want to get ahead of WAS for Newton.  These smaller moves back are safer for Dallas unless of course they really want to target OL, then 17 makes the most sense.  To get to 9, we could do 17/28 for 9/71.  OUCH!!  Or 17/33/125 for 9/71.  That's too much.  Ironically I'd be fine with 17/28 for Miller but no not fine with either of those deals for Watt.

    Bottom line, I can't see us going to 9 for Watt.  We don't even know if BB thinks DL is a priority. 

    We've discussed Miller and Watt.  What about Quinn?  Mayock seems to think he's a 43 DE but a lot of 34 teams needing an OLB are interested in him.  If Quinn gets past SF at 7, there are no 34 teams needing an OLB until the Pats at 17 except maybe HOU at 11.  Also equally interesting, the only 43 team after 7 needing a DE are MIN (12) and JAX (16).  DET (13) may go Quinn if they don't get a CB or take OL.  If MIN takes a QB, Quinn could drop all the way to 16.  Do we leap frog JAX for him?

    Is there a case to be made where Quinn gets past 8?  If there is, he could free fall all the way to 16 unless someone moves up.  Candidates to move up are TB (20), NO (24) and NYG (19), and KC (21).  We would be in a great position to move up for Quinn if he falls past MIN.  If Watt goes and both Jordan and Quinn get past MIN, look out.  We could do something.  DET could very well take one of them then whomever is left makes it to 16.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Mbeaulieu07, I cant wait for draft day either! Also i wanted to thank you for initiating this thread soooo loooong ago! I am stationed in Afghanistan and check this thread when I can because its the ONLY Pats draft talk I can get! So thanks again to all of you, and keep on keeping the rest of us informed and/or amused!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]
    Yes, I want to echo what Mb said.  You are a hero!!!!  Thank you for your service.  Come home safe, there's another SB to win this year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Here's a scenario that could easily unfold.  What if this happened, who do we take?

    14-3CARMarcell DareusDT
    24-3DENPatrick PetersonCB
    33-4BUFVon MillerOLB
    44-3CINCam NewtonQB
    53-4ARIBlaine GabbertQB
    64-3CLEAJ GreenWR
    73-4SFJulio JonesWR
    84-3TENNick FairleyDT
    93-4DALJJ WattDE
    103-4WASCameron JordanDE
    113-4HOUPrince AmukamaraCB
    124-3MINRobert QuinnDE
    134-3DETDa'Quan BowersDE
    144-3STLCorey LiugetDT
    153-4MIAMike PounceyOG
    164-3JAXAldon SmithOLB

    This would be a disaster.  The only options I see are an OT, Kerrigan, Ingram or a trade down.  Let's explore.

    If Tyron Smith  kills it at his Pro Day, he'd have to be considered.  Barely 20, he's a natural LT who played RT so BB will like that he can move him to either side.  He compares favorably for what we look for in an OT.  With an uncertain future with Light and Kaczur Smith has the most upside of the OTs IMO.  I think if BB were to pull the trigger on an OL type this high (15 spots higher than he has ever done it before), Smith would make the most sense for his upside and potential to be special.

    Smith 6-6, 307, 5.08, 29 reps 
    Vollmer 6-8, 312, 5.12 DNP reps

    We discussed Ryan Kerrigan a ton, does he fit standing up in a 34?  He's a great kid, called Superman by his team mates, he's a natural leader, co-captain.  He also fills a big need for us as a pass rusher.  But, the question has to be answered, does it fit into a 34?

    None of us like Mark Ingram at 17 much less 33.  But we have to consider the Heisman Trophy winner based on the Nick Saban connection and that all the guys at Alabama are emphatically saying that Ingram is the next Emmitt Smith.  Not just Saban and the Alabama people are saying this, Marshall Faulk has said it.  We have to consider that in 2009 Ingram broke the Alabama school record with 1,658 years and he did so against 6 top 25 ranked teams.  His down 2010 could be contributed to having his knee scoped just days before the start of the 2010 season.  He missed the first two games, but when he came back he scored a pair of TD in each of his first 3 games back.  He production also dipped because of the emergence of his Trent Richardson, but Ingram still averaged 5.6 ypc in the toughest conference. 

    Let's not forget BB drafted Maroney at 21, just 4 spots behind where we are.  Does BB value the opinion of Nick Saban and buy into the idea that Ingram could be the next Emmitt Smith?  If we wind the clock back one year a lot of us were drooling about the prospect of getting a high pick from the Raiders and being able to land Ingram.  Obvious that was before BJGE emerged and before Ingram had a "down" year.  I think we need to consider his at 17 if he gets past Miami.  TB is sitting at 20 and they'd be delighted to get him.  Brady isn't going to play forever and a young QB can really benefit from a power running game.  I'm not advocating we take Ingram or that BB would consider a RB this high again, I'm just throwing this out there.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I just got chastised by my brother for just saying Ingram's name.  He thinks we need to use 17/33 to move up to 7 to be sure we get Watt.  Then at 28 we take the best OT left, assuming there is one left.  My brother also thinks Wilkerson should be an option at 28 and didn't agree with my level of competition concerns.  My brother would rather have Wilkerson than Jordan.  I agree that Jordan is probably best suited as a 43 DE.

    JJ Watt one spot below where we got Richard Seymour is kind of ironic in that we'd be using the pick we got for Seymour plus a late 3rd that we converted to pick 33 because CAR was stupid.  Getting Watt at 7 would be basically getting him for Seymour and a late 3rd.  We would have lost Seymour after 2009 anyway so this is basically a 3rd and Comp 3rd if you look at what we gave up.

    JJ Watt is without doubt the best 5 technique option in the draft.  His 6 PDef is amazing for a DE.  All of them were batted balls which is almost as good as a sack because if they happen on 3rd down, they end the series.  His two FF and INT are also impressive.  Watt lives in the backfield, he disrupts plays, he has a non stop motor, he has Patriot written all over him.

    So, do we give up 33 to get him?  I guess we need to decide what we would do with 33 if we kept it.  If we are able to trade 28 down to a team looking to get back up for a QB or the SD deal, we could be back in the low 30s.  There could be no OTs left at 28 so we would be looking at OT at the back of the 2nd anyway.  We could take care of our interior OL needs with Watkins or Wisniewski or even later on with Moffitt, Schilling, Ijalana, etc.

    At 33 maybe Houston, Ayers, Wilson or a back like Ryan Williams or Mikel LeShoure we would lose out on.  We can always get a back later on.  Ayers doesn't impress me and Houston reminds me of Aaron Maybin or Larry English.

    My brother interviewed Greg Romeus the other day.  He claims that his back is 100% and his repaired ACL is on schedule to be ready for the start of 2011 season.  I know someone else threw his name out there so this isn't my idea but if healthy, Romeus could be an excellent reward over risk player in the 5th round.  He had 7 sacks in 2008 and 8 in 2009 before his senior year was pretty much erased by two injuries.

    At 17, we're in jail.  There is likely going to be nothing there to get excited about.  SF needs a NT, it's their #1 need.  PhilTaylor could be had at 17 before KC or NYJ.  They also need a C and Pouncey could make sense for them.  Then at 33 SF could address OLB or WR.  This would be a good move for them since they aren't going to get Miller or Peterson.  Someone is going to want to come up to 28 to get Ponder, Mallett or Locker.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Yes, I want to echo what Mb said.  You are a hero!!!!  Thank you for your service.  Come home safe, there's another SB to win this year.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Thank you brothers!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    The more we go through these mock excersise, the more I'm thinking that Kyle Rudolph is a legit option for them at 28 (assuming he's available).  While taking another TE might cause them to have to carry an extra TE for a year, maybe 2, I think this kid is everything BB looks for in a player, particularly at a position in which he's placed a high level of value, you can find room for these types of kids.  He's also represent both short term/long term value and you know BB is always thinking about today and tomorrow which it comes to team building.
     
    See that dead horse?  Bang, I just beat it again....Rudolph could = BPA, IMO. Ha
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    17- Wilkerson
    28- Rudolph
    33- Watkins
    60- Reed
    74- Vereen
    92- Carpenter
    4th- Elmore
    5th- Skrine
    6th- McElroy
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : pats 73, thanks for the respect you give us, yourself and 1210 for not taking it into the gutter (or street). hey 1210, how goes it.  we like to keep it friendly and respectful of each other around here(this thread in particular. there is no problem making a strong point, disagreeing, having an affinity for one posters offerings over another.  the written word, and the internet are not the ideal modes of effective communication, so misunderstandings abound.     if you feel misunderstood by someone, you can say so and why you feel that way and give the other person a chance to respond.  civility, good will, dignity and respect go a long way. we're all tough men and women when we need to be, but there's nothing to prove. peace 1210 and nice to meet you. ps. i agree with your point about de weight, and im open to hearing over and over from guys whove been around bb's proclivities. thanks for all the great posts today. i like it when its lively like this. cbdam/brdbreu
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    I have not had a chance to get on this board a lot this past few weeks but I had to comment on this one.

    Aside from the excellent insights that everyone here has had to offer, I think the next big factor in this thread's huge succes has been how everyone has stayed respectful with each other. People choose to be classy despite the disgreements.

    Shifting gears...
    I just saw the "real-time" mock draft that you guys did...was it yesterday?...that was awesome!!! good job guys!!!

    Lastly, someone commented on this thread being in the HoF of Boston.com discussion boards. Are you kidding me? This should be on the HoF of all threads of all discussion boards! Hats off to MB and everyone here!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Rudolph would make for some interesting formations. Hernandez, Rudolph, and Gronk on the field at the same time could be scary.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]The more we go through these mock excersise, the more I'm thinking that Kyle Rudolph is a legit option for them at 28 (assuming he's available).  While taking another TE might cause them to have to carry an extra TE for a year, maybe 2, I think this kid is everything BB looks for in a player, particularly at a position in which he's placed a high level of value, you can find room for these types of kids.  He's also represent both short term/long term value and you know BB is always thinking about today and tomorrow which it comes to team building.   See that dead horse?  Bang, I just beat it again....Rudolph could = BPA, IMO. Ha
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    You make a good case but I think IF we go that direction, why not wait until 33?  There is no body between 28 and 33 who needs a TE.  DEN and BUF at the top of Round 2 both need a TE and I had him going to DEN at 36.

    I was just about to come back to Carimi at 17 if all other options are gone.  Carimi is a power run blocker and if we're looking at roster stability, we have no less stable place than OL.  Neal - gone, Light - could be gone, Mankins - could hold out then be gone in 2011, Kaczur - could be cut, Koppen - F/A after 2011 and is set to make $5.5MM this year, Connolly - F/A after 2011, LeVoir - set to be F/A after 2011. 

    Our DL is stable contractually with everyone signed through at least 2012 with our projected starters, Wilfork, Warren and Deaderick signed past 2013.  We also have some instability at WR with Branch and Welker set to be F/A after 2011 and at S with Meriweather and Sanders set to become F/As after 2011. 

    This has me, reluctantly, going with OL at 17 if we aren't going to make a splash by trading up for Watt or Miller.

    If I'm to come around on Wilkerson, there is no need to take him before 28 unless we believe SD is taking him at 18 because there are no 34 teams who need a DE until the Jets at 30.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : You make a good case but I think IF we go that direction, why not wait until 33?  There is no body between 28 and 33 who needs a TE.  DEN and BUF at the top of Round 2 both need a TE and I had him going to DEN at 36. I was just about to come back to Carimi at 17 if all other options are gone.  Carimi is a power run blocker and if we're looking at roster stability, we have no less stable place than OL.  Neal - gone, Light - could be gone, Mankins - could hold out then be gone in 2011, Kaczur - could be cut, Koppen - F/A after 2011 and is set to make $5.5MM this year, Connolly - F/A after 2011, LeVoir - set to be F/A after 2011.  Our DL is stable contractually with everyone signed through at least 2012 with our projected starters, Wilfork, Warren and Deaderick signed past 2013.  We also have some instability at WR with Branch and Welker set to be F/A after 2011 and at S with Meriweather and Sanders set to become F/As after 2011.  This has me, reluctantly, going with OL at 17 if we aren't going to make a splash by trading up for Watt or Miller. If I'm to come around on Wilkerson, there is no need to take him before 28 unless we believe SD is taking him at 18 because there are no 34 teams who need a DE until the Jets at 30.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    33 is an option for sure, however I'm thinking that they spin that pick for additional selections to kick off day 2.

    I'm with you on OL, Castonzo, Carimi and Pouncey etc., they make a lot of sense in the 17-28 range, assuming they are high on one of these kids.

    As for your trade up scenario, I'm starting to come around on it a bit from the aspect of, this class is not nearly as deep with potential impact Rd 1 talent as last year so trading back with the expectation of landing a DMC type impact player might not be realistic. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I have not had a chance to get on this board a lot this past few weeks but I had to comment on this one. Aside from the excellent insights that everyone here has had to offer, I think the next big factor in this thread's huge succes has been how everyone has stayed respectful with each other. People choose to be classy despite the disgreements. Shifting gears... I just saw the "real-time" mock draft that you guys did...was it yesterday?...that was awesome!!! good job guys!!! Lastly, someone commented on this thread being in the HoF of Boston.com discussion boards. Are you kidding me? This should be on the HoF of all threads of all discussion boards! Hats off to MB and everyone here!
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Thanks man!
     

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