2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Guys,

    Who do we all see as the best pass blocking OG and OT (R or L) in the draft?

    In the first Jets loss Jason Taylor recorded the only sack, I assume this was against Matt Light.

    In the play-off loss, Ellis had 2 sacks, Pace 1, Pouha 1 and 1 came from Drew Coleman on a safety blitz.  That's 5 of 6 sacks coming from the Jets' DL, 4 if Taylor was coming as an OLB.  Our OL has to improve, they are getting old and slowing down;  Light (33), Kaczur (32), Koppen (31).

    I don't see any value OTs in this draft, no Sebastian Vollmer sitting there late 2nd.
    I think Carimi is the best run blocker of the bunch and would be a beast if we put him on the right side.  I'm starting to think we need to give up on the Watt idea and take either Pouncey or Carimi at 17.  Maybe we can manoeuvre to get both.

    Remember the SB years when we had one of the youngest and best OLs in football?  Madden used to talk about it and how BB was smart to lock these guys up for multiple years.  Well, they aren't young and locked up any more. 

    Gabe Carimi scouting report.

    Pass blocking: Has the elite agility and nimble feet to protect the quarterback's blindside. Very difficult to turn the corner against because of his lateral movement and solid footwork. Also protects the inside lane. Delivers a strong hand punch capable of knocking back an opponent, and is able to recoil and extend. Uses his length to block his man with one hand and knock an edge blitzer off his path with the other. Quick to cut on bubble screens and reverses, though he could get more of his man's legs to be truly effective. Bends at the waist while engaged; usually holds on to prevent secondary rush but will also end up on the ground too often.

    Run blocking: His true strength is as a blocker for the Badger run game. Has strong upper- and lower-body builds despite his height. Plays with leverage against stout defensive ends and tackles on the edge, can get under their pads and churn his legs to move them down or off the line. Effective combo blocker, gets a hand on inside rusher and still manages to push defensive ends and linebackers out of the play on rushing plays designed to go behind him. Leans or bends at the waist to latch on at times and gets shed and loses his balance.

    Mike Pouncey scouting report.

    Pass blocking: Provides a quick initial punch before easing out of his stance. Good balance and lateral agility to mirror the defender. Strong, active hands and long arms allow him to keep his opponent controlled. Can get a little high with his pad level, but shows impressive flexibility and core strength in being able to anchor against a quality bull rush. Struggled early in the year snapping the ball with accuracy out of the shotgun and getting his hands up quickly in pass protection. Has the agility to move back outside to guard.

    Run blocking: Quick off the snap. Latches on, shows very good upper-body strength and lateral agility and can turn the defender away from the ballcarrier. Plays with good pad level and shows some nastiness in his game. Looks to drive his assignment downfield or into the turf.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet, I'm glad you changed your mind about Ingram.  Can't see him at 17, wouldn't mind him at a later pick.  I think if we don't have a reasonable shot at trading up for Watt, then we go for Carimi or Pouncey or Kerrigan at 17... 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***


    THE BIG BOARD: UPDATED LIST OF PATRIOTS’ PRIVATE WORKOUTS



     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    To piggyback on Rocky's post, below is what I pulled from PatriotsInsider.com:

    OFFENSE

    OG Caleb Schlauderaff (Utah) -- SG  - Patriots Insider
    OT Joseph Barksdale ( LSU ) -- SG - Patriots Insider
    OL Mike Pouncey (Florida) -- CO, PD (scout.com)
    OL Danny Watkins (Baylor) -- PD (Baylor site), TI (NFP)
    OL Will Rackley (Lehigh) -- PW  - NFLDBB
    OL Gabe Carimi (Wisconsin) -- CB, PD

    QB Colin Kaepernick (Nevada) -- SB
    QB Andrew Dalton (TCU) -- PW  - National Football Post
    QB Taylor Potts (Texas Tech) -- PW - TFY Draft

    FB Collin Mooney (Army) -- TI - www.nlainc.org/index.php?p=coachscorner" target="_blank">Goblackknights
    RB Alex Green (Hawaii)  -- SG  - Patriots Insider
    RB Kendall Hunter (Oklahoma State) -- PW, TI -  NFP
    RB Da’Rel Scott (Maryland) -- PW - TFY Draft
    RB Jordan Todman (UConn) -- TI, VI  - NFP
    RB Ryan Williams (Virgiinia Tech) -- TI, PW - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3zP4ER5B9c" target="_blank">Foxsports.com
    RB Derrick Locke (Kentucky) - PW - TFY Draft

    WR Leonard Hankerson (Miami) -- SB,  (scout.com) PD
    WR Dane Sanzenbacker (Ohio State) -- SB,  (scout.com) PD
    WR Cecil Shorts (Mount Union) - PW - TFY Draft
    WR Chris Matthews (Kentucky) - PW
    WR Randall Cobb (Kentucky) - PW  - TFY Draft
    WR Torrey Smith ( Maryland) - PW
    WR Jeremy Kerley (TCU) - PW - FOXsports
    TE Virgil Green (Nevada) -- PW



    DEFENSE

    CB Korey Lindsey-Woods -- SG - (draft diary)
    CB Curtis Brown (Texas) -- PW - www.yardbarker.com/blog/nflbuzz/source_highly_regarded_cornerback_to_work_out_for_afc_teams/4421340" target="_blank">FOX Sports
    CB Johnny Patrick (Louisville) -- PW - ESPN Boston
    CB Shareece Wright (USC)  -- SB  - Scout.com


    DT David Carter  (UCLA)  -- SG - PatriotsInsider
    DE Cheta Ozougwu (Rice)  -- SG  - PatriotsInsider
    DL Kenrick Ellis (Hampton) -- TI - NFP
    DL Karl Klug (Iowa) -- TI  -  Iowa Gazzette
    DE Aldon Smith (Missouri) -- PW -  KOMU Sports
    DL Christain Ballard (Iowa) -- SB (NFP), PD

    LB Brian Rolle (Ohio State) -- PD - www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/03/12/osus-rolle-shows-scouts-his-versatility.html?sid=101" target="_blank">Columbus DIspatch
    LB Casey Matthews (Oregon) -- SB - (scout.com)
    LB Martez Wilson (Illinois) -- PW - Profootballweekly
    LB Adrian Moten (Maryland) -- TI, PD - www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Maryland-LB-Adrian-Moten-ran-a-449-today.html" target="_blank">NFP

    S  Justin Taplin-Ross (Utah) -- SG - Patriots Insider
    S Jaiquawn Jarrett (Temple) -- PW - NFP
    S Ahmad Black (Florida) -- SB (Scout & www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Freshman-Blog.php" target="_blank">Draft Countdown - picture)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Updated....

    DE
    Cameron Jordan (1)
    Muhammad Wilkerson (1-2)
    Jarvis Jenkins (2-3)
    Kenrick Ellis (3)
    Lawrence Guy (3-4)
    Terrell McClain (4-5)
    Ricky Lumpkin (7-UDFA)
    Corbin Bryant (7-UDFA)


    OT
    Gabe Carimi (1)
    Anthony Castonzo (1)
    Derrick Sherrod (1-2)
    Marcus Gilbert (3-4)
    Jah Reid (5-6)


    Sub Inside Pass Rush
    Allen Baily (2-3)


    OG
    Danny Watkins (1-2)
    Clint Boling (2-3)
    Ben Ijalana (2)
    James Carpenter (3)
    John Moffit (3-4)
    Will Rackley (4)


    WR
    Torrey Smith (1-2)
    Randall Cobb (2)
    Leonard Hankerson (2-3)
    Edmund Gates (3)
    Greg Salas (4)
    Dane Sanzenbacher (5-6)
    Jeremy Kerley (5)
    Cecil Shorts (5-6)
    Jeff Maehl (6)
    Chris MAtthews (6-7)
    Lester Jean (7-UDFA)


    OG/C
    Mike Pouncey (1-2)
    Stefen Wisniewski (2)
    Rodney Hudson (2-3)
    Tim Barnes (4)


    RB
    Ryan WIlliams (2)
    Shane Vereen (3)
    Kendall Hunter (2-3)
    Jordan Todman (3)
    Derrick Locke (5)
    DaRel Scott (5-6)
    Alex Green (6)


    TE
    Virgil Green (4-5)
    Andre Smith (5)
    Julius Thomas (5)


    OLB
    Justin Houston (1-2)
    Ryan Kerrigan (1-2)
    Jabaal Sheard (2)
    Brooks Reed (2-3)
    Ricky Elmore (4)
    Greg Romeus (4-5)
    Thomas Keiser (6-7)


    ILB
    Mark Herzlich (4-5)
    Mason Foster (4)
    Mike Mohamed (6)
    Jeff Tarpinian (7-UDFA)
    Michael Lockley (7-UDFA)


    Sub Outside Pass rusher
    Martez Wilson (2-3)
    Dontay Moch (3)
    Chris Carter (3)
    JT Thomas (6-7)
    Adrian Moten (7-UDFA)


    CB
    Curtis Brown (2)
    Brandon Hogan (4)
    Buster Skrine (3-4)
    Cortez Allen (4-5)
    Chykie Brown (4)


    S
    Joe Lefeged (4-5)
    Jaiquawn Jarrett (4-5)
    Shilo Keo (6)
    Mark LeGree (7-FA)


    QB
    Greg McElroy (5)
    Scott Tolzien (6)


    Outside the box thinking (Elephant)
    Adrian Clayborn(slimmed down) as OLB (1)
    Allen Bailey(slimmed down) as OLB (2)
    Cameron Jordan(slimmed down) as OLB (1)
    Christian Ballard(slimmed down) as OLB (2)


    It's Gonna Cost Ya
    Marcel Dareus (1)
    Von Miller (1)
    AJ Green (1)
    DaQuan Bowers (1)
    Julio Jones (1)
    JJ Watt (1)
    Mark Ingram (1)
    Aldon Smith (1)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Just a gut feeling I have. I have seen games where they pushed him almost 10yrds off his guy and he had trouble switching gears with his back pedal. It's seems like when there's space he'll decide what to do before the route plays out letting receivers get behind him or he'll drift towards a QB's eyes rather then watching how the routes are being run. In college this pays off but in the Pro's watching a QB's eyes in a deep zone is great unless you start drifting towards the first couple reads then it will open up holes. It's nothing that can't be fixed or he couldn't learn but I wouldn't draft a CB with his talent level and try to convert him over to a S with a 17th or lower pick. If I was going to take a CB and try to convert then over to a FS it would be someone like Devon House in the early 3rd, Jalil Brown in the mid rounds, or actually Javes Lewis would be a very interesting possibility in the 5th. He's listed as  CB but played FS at Oregon. Hrm, Lewis is a former teammate of Chung (I know only 1 year but still it was a year) he has performed very well in zone and doesn't shy away from a RB. Isn't the fastest guy in the world but runs high 4.4's low 4.5's. Just don't ask him to cover 1 on 1. BTW I wouldn't call Warren a rushing DL. He's a run prevent first then a rushing second. That's what made him and Seymour so special. They would toss the run prevent OLB behind Seymour since they weren't running the ball towards Warren or Wilfork and the rushing OLB behind Warren since you knew that the extra blocker would be on Seymour's side and Warren demanded a dbl team too. If you put a Watt or Jordan across from Warren, even if they don't get the sacks it forces the extra blocker off Warrens side not only opening up the OLB but also letting Warren get free off dbl teams every so often.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    IDK man, the kid looks really instinctive, understands what is going on in front of him and is quick to identify, locate and close, I also like his ball skills.  He also has good feet and COD, tackles well and plays with physicality.   Don't get me wrong, you're probably taking the kid with the idea of using him at CB, but I don't see anything that tells me the kid couldn't play S if needed.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : This topic has been brought up in the past.  If true, then we need to write off any player Condon represents.  I've asked Mike Reiss what he thinks about this and will post his response when I receive it.  It would be a shame to pass on a perfect player fit because of an agent but I'm taking this story seriously. Who else does he represent?  I know he also represents AJ Green and Blaine Gabbert but those players wouldn't be targets of the Pats.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    rookie contract will be pre set.. i think it was 1 rounders for 4 years.
    woulld bb still avoid watt knowing this?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I'd rather go Watt than Amukamara if forced to trade up. I am with you on drafting another CB early, but not that early and not Amukamara. For Peterson, absolutely would. I think it would require a fairly substantial trade up, possibly higher or as high as Watt. To be completely honest, and I'll probably offend a few here, I don't want to move up for Watt that high either. If I had my choice, we would grab one of the Texas kids in round 2. I like Aaron Williams a bunch, he has some versatility in he could play CB or FS. And as we learned last year, the CB position is just 1 bullet away from the likes of Butler. As LOW and other have pointed out, and something that has got me looking at more Watt footage, is, "is he a good fit for NE's scheme?". Can he truely play the 5 tech or are there better players that can be had later in round 1 (Heyward, Wilkerson, Taylor), or even round 2-4 (Jenkins, Guy, etc.)? I'm starting to warm up to trading out of 17 down to 20-25 and going after Carimi or Pouncey. Faucet has made a good case for Carimi, where he is versatile enough to play inside or out, and I like having that insurance policy filled by a guy that can get it done, rather than risking Brady's arss on possibly some later, questionable talent. I'm still on the DE train, but again, I'm leaning later in round 1. It might even require a trade up from 28, depending on who you want to target. I'm warming on Taylor as well here. Something tells me he gets his off the field issues sorted out and becomes a solid citizen. I've seen some recent interviews and analysis saying that some are confident he won't pose a character problem. If that is the case, I like his size 6'4", 340, runs a 5.14 and has fast feet and great hand use...Of course you also have Heyward and Wilkerson, and then later on with Jarvis Jenkins. To be honest, I'd like to see either Taylor or Heyward go late round 1/early 2 to us, and also pick up Jarvis Jenkins down the line.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    Maybe there is a way we can get all three needs met with 17, 28 and 33 with some combination of the below.

    Pouncey, Carimi and Heyward
    Pouncey, Carimi and Watt
    Pouncey, Carimi and Jordan
    Pouncey, Carimi and Taylor

    Maybe back from 17, up from 28 or something like that.  Any of the above groupings would be a nice haul.  Then at 60 perhaps Sam Acho then focus the rest of the draft on skill players.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I am not saying Watt is not a great athlete or player or that he won't turn out excellent in the NFL. ONLY that the past fits raise a question of his fit, nothing more. It won't surprise me in NE drafted him. It won't surprise me if he fell in their lap and they didn't draft him. In my mind, if i feel it could go either way, then I have to come away with a question on fit because Watt seems to match all the other intangibles I mentioned earlier.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    low thanks fo rhe analysis.

    re:

    it seems the analysts do feel watt will be a force at de to pressure the passer and all around be a very good de. they call him the best 5 technique in the draft. they could all be wrong.

    NE plays their 34 vastly different than most other 34 teams. That's a simplistic blanket statement. I think there are other factors for the Watt love by the NON die hard Patriot specific "experts".


    i did not say they felt watt was ideal for n.e. just the quote above. and its by mayoock, best 5 tech in draft. he likes jordon too as you see by the quote in my original post.

    thanks for the n.e de specific breakdown.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Maybe there is a way we can get all three needs met with 17, 28 and 33 with some combination of the below. Pouncey, Carimi and Heyward Pouncey, Carimi and Watt Pouncey, Carimi and Jordan Pouncey, Carimi and Taylor Maybe back from 17, up from 28 or something like that.  Any of the above groupings would be a nice haul.  Then at 60 perhaps Sam Acho then focus the rest of the draft on skill players.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I think its possible, but improbable unless we do some packaging and move up. I am fairly confident we can get Carimi around 17-20, and Heyward around 28-33, but Pouncey I think is going to come off the board right after or around 20-25. And Taylor could go anywhere between 20-30. So, we would need to trade 33 or 28 up I think to grab him or Pouncey if you liked Taylor over Heyward for example.

    Unless we are intent on trading up from 28 or 33, I can't see how we could take down Carimi, Jordan, Taylor or Pouncy together. I have them all tightly grouped unless I'm totally off base.

    I'm just as comfortable with these groupings as well;
    Carimi (17-20), Heyward(28-33), Wisnewski (35-45)
    Carimi, Taylor (20-30), Wisnewski
    Jordan (17-20), Sherrod (28), Wisnewski

    Now, the only issue with the above is we have to wait (or trade up) until pick 60 to try and grab an OLB. Who's left there of quality?...Acho perhaps? Reed, Houston, MWilson and Sheard should be gone. We also could do this...

    Jordan, Sherrod, Sheard, Wisknewski (trade up from 60 to 45 range)
    or wait unitl round 3 to grab Moffit.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Guys, Who do we all see as the best pass blocking OG and OT (R or L) in the draft? In the first Jets loss Jason Taylor recorded the only sack, I assume this was against Matt Light. In the play-off loss, Ellis had 2 sacks, Pace 1, Pouha 1 and 1 came from Drew Coleman on a safety blitz.  That's 5 of 6 sacks coming from the Jets' DL, 4 if Taylor was coming as an OLB.  Our OL has to improve, they are getting old and slowing down;  Light (33), Kaczur (32), Koppen (31). I don't see any value OTs in this draft, no Sebastian Vollmer sitting there late 2nd. I think Carimi is the best run blocker of the bunch and would be a beast if we put him on the right side.  I'm starting to think we need to give up on the Watt idea and take either Pouncey or Carimi at 17.  Maybe we can manoeuvre to get both. Remember the SB years when we had one of the youngest and best OLs in football?  Madden used to talk about it and how BB was smart to lock these guys up for multiple years.  Well, they aren't young and locked up any more.  Gabe Carimi scouting report. Pass blocking: Has the elite agility and nimble feet to protect the quarterback's blindside. Very difficult to turn the corner against because of his lateral movement and solid footwork. Also protects the inside lane. Delivers a strong hand punch capable of knocking back an opponent, and is able to recoil and extend. Uses his length to block his man with one hand and knock an edge blitzer off his path with the other. Quick to cut on bubble screens and reverses, though he could get more of his man's legs to be truly effective. Bends at the waist while engaged; usually holds on to prevent secondary rush but will also end up on the ground too often. Run blocking: His true strength is as a blocker for the Badger run game. Has strong upper- and lower-body builds despite his height. Plays with leverage against stout defensive ends and tackles on the edge, can get under their pads and churn his legs to move them down or off the line. Effective combo blocker, gets a hand on inside rusher and still manages to push defensive ends and linebackers out of the play on rushing plays designed to go behind him. Leans or bends at the waist to latch on at times and gets shed and loses his balance. Mike Pouncey scouting report. Pass blocking: Provides a quick initial punch before easing out of his stance. Good balance and lateral agility to mirror the defender. Strong, active hands and long arms allow him to keep his opponent controlled. Can get a little high with his pad level, but shows impressive flexibility and core strength in being able to anchor against a quality bull rush. Struggled early in the year snapping the ball with accuracy out of the shotgun and getting his hands up quickly in pass protection. Has the agility to move back outside to guard. Run blocking: Quick off the snap. Latches on, shows very good upper-body strength and lateral agility and can turn the defender away from the ballcarrier. Plays with good pad level and shows some nastiness in his game. Looks to drive his assignment downfield or into the turf.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    hey faucet, i see the need. wrote about it in my season ending analysis.
    am fine with order changes of what postion we pick when, but i still want qb pressurign de and olb included in a draft plan.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Hey MB with the G and OT best pass blocking I have a couple of names but some people might not like it lol

    For OT I have Barksdale. His technic and hands are the best I've seen in this T class. He also has the size, athletic ability, and agility to keep rushes off QB's. Now saying that imo he is purely a RT. He lacks the mean streak and isn't the best run blocker but you asked pure pass blocker and didn't ask for LT/RT or mean streak. (BTW this doesn't mean he's the best T either)

    If I'm going with best potential to become the best T I'm going with Tyron Smith

    For OG I have Boling. He might be a bit small but his blitz pickup is bar none. He has a great initial punch and doesn't get pushed back easily. His footwork is also one of the best in the draft
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Hey Guys. Using my own, slightly updated, Pats specific position board that I have been posting on here and in conjunction with the huddle reports current top 200 board I came up with the following tier targets for players.

    Before anyone starts spouting off about this or that player won't be there, just a few things to keep in mind.

    1) Yes I know not every player in each group will be there
    2) EVERY year players are there for the Pats that no one expected to still be on the board

    1ST ROUND
    #17 - JJ Watt | Cameron Jordan | Muhammad Wilkerson

    #28 - Anthony Castonzo | Gabe Carimi | Mike Pouncey | Danny Watkins

    2ND ROUND
    #33 - Justin Houstin | Torrey Smith | Allen Bailey

    #60 - Curtis Brown | Brooks Reed | Jarvis Jenkins | Kendall Hunter | Clint Boling

    3RD ROUND
    #74 - Shane Vereen | Jordan Todman | Edmund Gates | Rodney Hudson | Stefen Wisniewski

    #92 - Will Rackley | Dontay Moch | Chris Carter

    4TH ROUND
    #125 - Joe Lefeged | Jaiquawn Jarrett | Brandon Hogan | John Moffit | Rob Housler | Greg Salas | Mark Herzlich | Joseph Barksdale | Terrell McClain

    5TH ROUND
    #159 - Greg McElroy | Greg Romeus | Buster Skrine | Jeremy Kerley | Cortez Allen | DaRel Scott | Julius Jones | Andre Smith

    6TH ROUND
    #189 - Chris Mathews | Shiloh Keo | Chykie Brown | Jah Reid | Ricky Elmore | Scott Tolzien | Mike Mohamed

    Have at it. Comment. Move some guys around. Build some mocks, etc.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Interesting Path to the Draft today.  Speculation is growing that CIN will take a QB at 4.  But what happens if Newton and Gabbert are gone?  They are bringing Mallett in for a visit.  Of all the teams willing to take a chance on a bad apple, it is CIN.  Mallett by most accounts is the most NFL -Pro ready QB prospect and can make all the NFL throws.  If you take character out of the equation, why isn't he worth pick 4?  CIN knows ARI at 5 is just as QB desperate, they also know Mallett does not get back to them in the 2nd.

    Teams without QBs are going to be frantic.  Without F/A, teams could and may reach.  If Mallett also goes top 5 does that force teams like TEN, WAS, MIN, MIA and JAX to start thinking Ponder?  JAX apparently is very interested in quasi local product Ponder.  I think they take him if he's there.  MIA is meeting with Mallett so can't rule him going there should he last.  The stage could be set for 4 QBs to go before 17.  If that happens guys, we could be very happy indeed.

    The other interesting topic is every one thinks HOU is taking Defense, we all know this, but Watt would be down their list.  They would go Amukamara without a doubt if he's there.  If not there, Aldon Smith would seem the better fit.  Another HUGE need is the 0 tech, a pure NT.  This could elevate Phil Taylor even higher because the switch to 34 is going to require them to get a NT and there is no assurance the kid from Hampton is around when they pick in the 2nd.

    Mayock now thinks Julio Jones goes ahead of AJ Green because he is best suited for a west coast offense which both CIN and CLE run. 

    The last cool thing today is the emergence of Corey Liuget is for real.  They are saying top 15.  If Jones and Green are gone, STL would likely take Liuget.

    You bring Phil Taylor and Liuget up and take 4 QBs off the board, the Pats will be finding 1 if not 2 players they weren't expecting to see there at 17.  Watt and Jordan and perhaps a Quinn or Green could be there.  Hmmm.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Interesting Path to the Draft today.  Speculation is growing that CIN will take a QB at 4.  But what happens if Newton and Gabbert are gone?  They are bringing Mallett in for a visit.  Of all the teams willing to take a chance on a bad apple, it is CIN.  Mallett by most accounts is the most NFL -Pro ready QB prospect and can make all the NFL throws.  If you take character out of the equation, why isn't he worth pick 4?  CIN knows ARI at 5 is just as QB desperate, they also know Mallett does not get back to them in the 2nd. Teams without QBs are going to be frantic.  Without F/A, teams could and may reach.  If Mallett also goes top 5 does that force teams like TEN, WAS, MIN, MIA and JAX to start thinking Ponder?  JAX apparently is very interested in quasi local product Ponder.  I think they take him if he's there.  MIA is meeting with Mallett so can't rule him going there should he last.  The stage could be set for 4 QBs to go before 17.  If that happens guys, we could be very happy indeed. The other interesting topic is every one thinks HOU is taking Defense, we all know this, but Watt would be down their list.  They would go Amukamara without a doubt if he's there.  If not there, Aldon Smith would seem the better fit.  Another HUGE need is the 0 tech, a pure NT.  This could elevate Phil Taylor even higher because the switch to 34 is going to require them to get a NT and there is no assurance the kid from Hampton is around when they pick in the 2nd. Mayock now thinks Julio Jones goes ahead of AJ Green because he is best suited for a west coast offense which both CIN and CLE run.  The last cool thing today is the emergence of Corey Liuget is for real.  They are saying top 15.  If Jones and Green are gone, STL would likely take Liuget. You bring Phil Taylor and Liuget up and take 4 QBs off the board, the Pats will be finding 1 if not 2 players they weren't expecting to see there at 17.  Watt and Jordan and perhaps a Quinn or Green could be there.  Hmmm.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    After the first 2 1/2 - 3 rounds I am totally meh on this draft. Reminds me too much of the depth of 2007.

    2007 was the year they went after Revis.

    They could actually do the unthinkable this year and attempt to go up and get someone they think is a notch above. One of those top 5 type guys if one slides.

    If a QB or two goes and someone actually takes Jones before Green as Mayock suggests. I've seen a mock where Green goes to St Louis instead of Jones. Hmm #14 thats exactly where Revis went and we traded up a lot farther to go after him. Don't be shocked if the go after Green.

    I would say Dareus but I don't see him with the possibility of sliding in the same way.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** :  ... At this point the best way to help the secondary is to improve the pass rush. I saw a stat that said last year opponents QB's averaged well over 5s to throw the ball against the Pats. That's huge. I don't care who is in your secondary if you aren't putting pressure on the QB all coverage will eventually fall apart. If the Pats can get some pressure on QB's and drop that 5+ secs to 3 then I don't even think we need to worry about about our 3rd cb in coverage. Think of all the no name cb's we use to toss out when our front 7 could get QB's to panic. I have always felt the best way to get pressure on a QB starts in the trenches and ripples out. A great DE will get to QB's, collapse a pocket, or open a couple holes for a OLB. Seymour was that type of player. He might not have gotten the stats but he consistently put pressure on QB's or opened a hole for someone else to come in. No one on this current roster can do that which imo is why we couldn't get pressure on QB's since the Seymour trade. *Note - Not saying it was a bad trade at all. I actually liked the trade but we have yet to fill that hole. 
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    This post is awesome!!! It points to the right solution to the pass pressure problem.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : After the first 2 1/2 - 3 rounds I am totally meh on this draft. Reminds me too much of the depth of 2007. 2007 was the year they went after Revis. They could actually do the unthinkable this year and attempt to go up and get someone they think is a notch above. One of those top 5 type guys if one slides. If a QB or two goes and someone actually takes Jones before Green as Mayock suggests. Don't be shocked if the go after Green.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    last night i started having strong feelings about miller. this is a total change for me. if we go for a top 5 guy.  i'm feeling miller is going to tear it up in pass rush and wreak havoc.  still would like a de somewhere in draft who is improvemwent on pressuring qb, and gotta get 2 o lineman. can we do it all. bit of a challenge, but i would try.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    the board is not as active today, for a monday.
    come on out everybody.
    faucet great post. will come back to it little later (and yes i've been pulling for and hoping for the same thing.. lets hope the players win this stopping of the lockout but fa still doesnt happen till after the draft.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : last night i started having strong feelings about miller. this is a total change for me. if we go for a top 5 guy.  i'm feeling miller is going to tear it up in pass rush and wreak havoc.  still would like a de somewhere in draft who is improvemwent on pressuring qb, and gotta get 2 o lineman. can we do it all. bit of a challenge, but i would try.
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]


    I am saying they might be tempted to trade up for a top 5 "talent" that falls well down outside the top 5, not trade into the top 5. I do not think the Pats would trade into the top 5.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I wish everone would get off the Pouncey bandwagon! he is NOT his brother, has trouble snapping the ball, and has SHORT arms (ala Kyle Wilson). Personally, I hope we stay away from this guy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Interesting Path to the Draft today.  Speculation is growing that CIN will take a QB at 4.  But what happens if Newton and Gabbert are gone?  They are bringing Mallett in for a visit.  Of all the teams willing to take a chance on a bad apple, it is CIN.  Mallett by most accounts is the most NFL -Pro ready QB prospect and can make all the NFL throws.  If you take character out of the equation, why isn't he worth pick 4?  CIN knows ARI at 5 is just as QB desperate, they also know Mallett does not get back to them in the 2nd. Teams without QBs are going to be frantic.  Without F/A, teams could and may reach.  If Mallett also goes top 5 does that force teams like TEN, WAS, MIN, MIA and JAX to start thinking Ponder?  JAX apparently is very interested in quasi local product Ponder.  I think they take him if he's there.  MIA is meeting with Mallett so can't rule him going there should he last.  The stage could be set for 4 QBs to go before 17.  If that happens guys, we could be very happy indeed. The other interesting topic is every one thinks HOU is taking Defense, we all know this, but Watt would be down their list.  They would go Amukamara without a doubt if he's there.  If not there, Aldon Smith would seem the better fit.  Another HUGE need is the 0 tech, a pure NT.  This could elevate Phil Taylor even higher because the switch to 34 is going to require them to get a NT and there is no assurance the kid from Hampton is around when they pick in the 2nd. Mayock now thinks Julio Jones goes ahead of AJ Green because he is best suited for a west coast offense which both CIN and CLE run.  The last cool thing today is the emergence of Corey Liuget is for real.  They are saying top 15.  If Jones and Green are gone, STL would likely take Liuget. You bring Phil Taylor and Liuget up and take 4 QBs off the board, the Pats will be finding 1 if not 2 players they weren't expecting to see there at 17.  Watt and Jordan and perhaps a Quinn or Green could be there.  Hmmm.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I've always felt there was going to be a run on QB's early. I thought 3-5 QB's would be gone in the top 15.

    IMO Car is going QB. Given their fan base and needing to get them back Newton is their best chance to get the fans excited again. Buf always gives away their pick every year and this year the owner said they need to improve the passing game and get better at QB. Gabbert seems like the logical fit here. After hat you have SF, Cin, Ari right after. All 3 desperate for QB's which is the area I thought Mallett would fall if a team got desperate. If those 3 go in the top 10 there is no doubt in my mind Minn is going to trade back into the late teens early twenties. If they can't I think Locker is their pick. They've been rumored coveting Locker and with 3 QB's don they won't take the risk of Locker making it to the 2nd. Of course if 4 QB's are gone in the top 15 then Sea or Jax may target Ponder just to get a guy. There's you 5 QB's in the 1st.

    I think you're right about Hou. I don't think they are targeting DL. I see them targeting Quinn, A Smith, and Prince before they go DL. If the run of QB's happens then one of those or Bowers/Fairley should fall into their laps.

    Stl is a wild card. IMO they go after Green/Jones which ever falls but if neither are there then it's very possible thy try to get a NT.

    It looks like things are starting to fall the Pats way. Not having a new CBA might have been the best thin to happen to the Pats.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]I wish everone would get off the Pouncey bandwagon! he is NOT his brother, has trouble snapping the ball, and has SHORT arms (ala Kyle Wilson). Personally, I hope we stay away from this guy.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree at all, I've seen, read enough about this kid to think he'll be a quality player at the NFL level and a definite starter early. 

    It's gonna take a lot more than "he's not his brother" to change my mind, not to mention Maurkice's arms were only a 1/4 of an inch longer (32 1/2 vs. 32 1/4) and he seemed to do alright in the interior of Pitt's OL.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I've always felt there was going to be a run on QB's early. I thought 3-5 QB's would be gone in the top 15. IMO Car is going QB. Given their fan base and needing to get them back Newton is their best chance to get the fans excited again. Buf always gives away their pick every year and this year the owner said they need to improve the passing game and get better at QB. Gabbert seems like the logical fit here. After hat you have SF, Cin, Ari right after. All 3 desperate for QB's which is the area I thought Mallett would fall if a team got desperate. If those 3 go in the top 10 there is no doubt in my mind Minn is going to trade back into the late teens early twenties. If they can't I think Locker is their pick. They've been rumored coveting Locker and with 3 QB's don they won't take the risk of Locker making it to the 2nd. Of course if 4 QB's are gone in the top 15 then Sea or Jax may target Ponder just to get a guy. There's you 5 QB's in the 1st. I think you're right about Hou. I don't think they are targeting DL. I see them targeting Quinn, A Smith, and Prince before they go DL. If the run of QB's happens then one of those or Bowers/Fairley should fall into their laps. Stl is a wild card. IMO they go after Green/Jones which ever falls but if neither are there then it's very possible thy try to get a NT. It looks like things are starting to fall the Pats way. Not having a new CBA might have been the best thin to happen to the Pats.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    we still donmt know if there will be a new cba.
    judge ruling could affect that. just hope players win and fa takes place after draft.

    yep, a lot of us here hopin' the qb run causes 5 to go in top 15.

    i think we should trade with minn for quinn. he's the best rusher and good against the run and will be ready to play before smith and is stronger in lower body.
     
    you guys are influencing me on watt.

    pick #2  o line.

    pickup best de choice who gives ap ressure to qb consitently (heyward, austin, taylor, whoever, even jordan if he slips)

    pickup 2nd o line.

    and any possible starters(or competitiors to start) to improve our team in rest of draft.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2011/03/28/the-big-board-updated-list-of-patriots-prvivate-workouts/ THE BIG BOARD: UPDATED LIST OF PATRIOTS’ PRIVATE WORKOUTS
    Posted by Rocky[/QUOTE]
    Let's just post this Rocky.  It makes it easier.  In studying this list, I don't see any of the top DL types we have been talking about.  No Watt, no Jordan, no Wilkerson (although they were at his pro day), no Heyward, no Fairley.  I also only see one stud OT in Solder and G Pouncey.  There isn't one solid OLB prospect in the bunch.  They are looking at a host of RBs, WR and QBs.  I've highlighted in red players that would fit in our 17-33 range.  Players that fit in the 60-74 range are in blue.

    Mike Pouncey
    Nate Solder
    Ryan Williams
    Torrey Smith

    Randall Cobb
    Allen Bailey
    Jordan Todman
    Kenrick Ellis



    Offense
    Hillsdale wide receiver Andre Holmes 6-4, 210, 4.51, undrafted type
    Florida offensive lineman Mike Pouncey
    Maryland wide receiver Torrey Smith
    Kentucky wide receiver Chris Matthews 6-5, 218, 4.57, UK's #2 WR behind Cobb, productive but prob a late round pick
    Virginia Tech running back Ryan Williams, many feel could be the best RB in draft
    Nevada tight end Virgil Green 6-3.5, 252, 4.54, solid 4th rounder, similar to Hernandez
    TCU quarterback Andy Dalton
    TCU wide receiver Jeremy Kerley 5-10, 189, 4.56 Slot type, 6th round
    Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy
    Iowa quarterback Ricky Stanzi
    Missouri offensive lineman Tim Barnes 4th rated Center, 6-4, 300, 5.17, 4th rounder good size for his speed which BB likes, best as a run blocker

    Defense
    Citadel defensive back Cortez Allen 6-1, 197, 4.50, 4-5th rounder
    Miami defensive lineman Allen Bailey
    Northwestern defensive lineman Corbin Bryant 6-3, 297, 5.10, undrafted type
    Missouri defensive back Kevin Rutland 6-0, 190, 4.58, late round - undrafted
    UTC defensive back Buster Skrine elite speed, bad on tape, beaten badly several times badly against Auburn, 5-6th round pick
    Hampton defensive lineman Kenrick Ellis, huge and athletic, perfect 3-4 Nose
    South Florida defensive lineman Terrell McClain 6-2, 297, 4.98, very athletic for his size, projects to NT for us 4-6 round range

    In addition, it’s been reported by multiple outlets the following players will have or have had private workouts or meetings with the Patriots:

    Offense
    Connecticut running back Jordan Todman (via National Football Post)
    Mount Union wide receiver Cecil Shorts (via NEPatriotsDraft.com) Slot type, 6-0, 205, 4.50, 5-6th rounder
    Montana State offensive lineman Mike Person (via Bozeman Daily Chronicle) 6-5, 299, 507, 21 reps. Fast for a big man, the type of OG BB likes, late round to undrafted.
    Texas Tech quarterback Taylor Potts (via SI.com)
    Maryland running back Da’Rel Scott (via SI.com) 5-11, 211, 4.40, all around back that can explode through the hole and break long runs, solid pass catcher.  4-5th rounder
    Kentucky wide receiver Randall Cobb (via SI.com)
    Kentucky running back Derrick Locke (via SI.com) 5-8, 188, 4.37 speedster, 5-6 rounder
    Colorado offensive lineman Nate Solder (via National Football Post)

    Defense
    Fresno State defensive back Desia Dunn (via Fresnostate.scout.com) 5-8, 191, 4.53 undrafted type
    Louisville defensive back Johnny Patrick (via ESPNBoston) late 3rd CB, could be safety conversion type.
    South Florida cornerback Mistral Raymond (via ESPNBoston) Got nothing on him
    Temple defensive back Jaiquawn Jarrett (via National Football Post) 5th round FS
    Maryland linebacker Adrien Moten (via National Football Post) 6-2, 234, 4.49, OLB late 6-7 rounder.  Is a solide blitzer putting up 15.5 career sacks.  Is great in coverage with 4 INTs last year, better run stopper than you would think for his size and never gives up on a play. Pats probably looking at him as core ST guy like Izzo/ Tracy White.


    So what this all tells me is the Patriots are looking for a 3rd QB  perhaps in the 3-5th round range.  They are looking for another NT type, why?  Maybe they want to move Wilfork to DE more often.  They aren't looking at any 34 DE types that I can see.  They are looking at a host of RBs and WR starting from 33 to late rounds.  Other than Bailey, not one elite DE/OLB conversion type.  They are starting to think about Center with Pouncey and Barnes.

    Unless they are hiding their intentions are know enough about some of the elite players they met with that wasn't widely reported, this is somewhat confusing.  Is this the complete list of players they worked out, anyone know?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I've always felt there was going to be a run on QB's early. I thought 3-5 QB's would be gone in the top 15. IMO Car is going QB. Given their fan base and needing to get them back Newton is their best chance to get the fans excited again. Buf always gives away their pick every year and this year the owner said they need to improve the passing game and get better at QB. Gabbert seems like the logical fit here. After hat you have SF, Cin, Ari right after. All 3 desperate for QB's which is the area I thought Mallett would fall if a team got desperate. If those 3 go in the top 10 there is no doubt in my mind Minn is going to trade back into the late teens early twenties. If they can't I think Locker is their pick. They've been rumored coveting Locker and with 3 QB's don they won't take the risk of Locker making it to the 2nd. Of course if 4 QB's are gone in the top 15 then Sea or Jax may target Ponder just to get a guy. There's you 5 QB's in the 1st. I think you're right about Hou. I don't think they are targeting DL. I see them targeting Quinn, A Smith, and Prince before they go DL. If the run of QB's happens then one of those or Bowers/Fairley should fall into their laps. Stl is a wild card. IMO they go after Green/Jones which ever falls but if neither are there then it's very possible thy try to get a NT. It looks like things are starting to fall the Pats way. Not having a new CBA might have been the best thin to happen to the Pats.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    If QBs do fly off the board, the draft could start out like this.  Fairley, Jordan and Aldon Smith could be there at 17 along with 4 of the 5 OTs.  This makes me think Cam Jordan but not after doing my last post.  Do you think we'd consider Fairley at 17, if he falls this far?  He is slipping.


    OrderSchm Team PlayerP
    14-3CARBlaine GabbertQB
    24-3DENMarcell DareusDT
    33-4BUFCam NewtonQB
    44-3CINRyan MallettQB
    53-4ARIPatrick PetersonCB
    64-3CLEJulio JonesWR
    73-4SFVon MillerOLB
    84-3TENPrince AmukamaraCB
    93-4DALJJ WattDE
    103-4WASAnthony CastonzoOT
    113-4HOUPhil TaylorDT
    124-3MINDa'Quan BowersDE
    134-3DETRobert QuinnDE
    144-3STLAJ GreenWR
    153-4MIAMike PounceyOG
    164-3JAXChristian PonderQB
    173-4NE  
     

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