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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Alright, I need to start posting here again and help add to the discussion a bit. The Draft is the favorite time of the year and I don't even add comments to a Patriots draft thread haha. All I do is read. But I have been doing work on the side. I have my top 32 players overall, my positional rankings, top 75 patriots targets and new full 2 round mock (with all patriots picks). Here they are, I will try and make this look as neat and easy to read as possible. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top 32 Players Overall 1.        AJ Green, WR, Georgia 2.        Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU 3.        Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama 4.        Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M 5.        Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina 6.        Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska 7.        JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin 8.        Cameron Jordan, DE, California 9.        Julio Jones, WR, Alabama 10.    Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama 11.    Tyron Smith, OT, USC 12.    Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida 13.    Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri 14.    Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue 15.    Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn 16.    Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College 17.    Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin 18.    Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame 19.    Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois 20.    Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio State 21.    Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor 22.    Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL) 23.    Martez Wilson, ILB, Illinois 24.    Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri 25.    Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky 26.    Bruce Carter, OLB, North Carolina 27.    Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona 28.    Andy Dalton, QB, TCU 29.    Rahim Moore, S, UCLA 30.    Aaron Williams, S, Texas 31.    Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech 32.    Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postional Rankings QB 1.        Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 2.        Andy Dalton, TCU 3.        Greg McElroy, Alabama 4.        Christian Ponder, Florida State 5.        Cameron Newton, Auburn     RB            1.        Mark Ingram, Alabama 2.        Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 3.        Mikel LeShoure, Illinois 4.        Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State 5.        Jordan Todman, Connecticut WR 1.        AJ Green, Georgia 2.        Julio Jones, Alabama 3.        Randall Cobb, Kentucky 4.        Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL) 5.        Jerel Jernigan, Troy TE 1.        Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2.        Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3.        DJ Williams, Arkansas 4.        Jordan Cameron, USC 5.        Luke Stocker, Tennessee OT 1.        Tyron Smith, Southern California 2.        Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 3.        Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 4.        Ben Ijalana, Villanova 5.        Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State   Interior-OL 1.        Mike Pouncey, Florida 2.        Danny Watkins, Baylor 3.        Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State 4.        Rodney Hudson, Florida State 5.        John Moffitt, Wisconsin 4-3 DE 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Cameron Jordan, California 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Da’Quan Bowers, Clemson 3-4 DE 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 3.        Cameron Jordan, California 4.        Cameron Heyward, Ohio State 5.        Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple DT 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Nick Fairley, Auburn 3.        Corey Liuget, Illinois 4.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 5.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 4-3 OLB 1.        Bruce Carter, North Carolina 2.        Akeem Ayers, UCLA 3.        Mason Foster, Washington 4.        Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut 5.        Dontay Moch, Nevada 3-4 OLB 1.        Von Miller, Texas A&M 2.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Brooks Reed, Arizona ILB 1.        Martez Wilson, Illinois 2.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 3.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 4.        Casey Matthews, Oregon 5.        Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina   CB 1.        Patrick Peterson, LSU 2.        Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3.        Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) 4.        Jimmy Smith, Colorado 5.        Johnny Patrick, Louisville   S 1.        Rahim Moore, UCLA 2.        Aaron Williams, Texas 3.        Ahmad Black, Florida 4.        Shiloh Keo, Idado 5.        Richard Sherman, Stanford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Top 75 Patriots Targets QB Andy Dalton QB Greg McElroy QB Ricky Stanzi   RB Mark Ingram RB Ryan Williams RB Mikel LeShoure RB Kendall Hunter RB Jordan Todman RB Taiwan Jones   WR AJ Green WR Julio Jones WR Randall Cobb WR Jerrel Jernigan WR Edmond Gates WR Greg Little WR Austin Pettis WR Jeremy Kerley WR Dane Sanzenbacher   TE Kyle Rudolph   OT Anthony Castonzo OT Tyron Smith OT Gabe Carimi OT Ben Ijalana OT Marcus Gilbert   OG Mike Pouncey OG Danny Watkins OG Rodney Hudson OG Clint Boling OG James Carpenter OG John Moffitt OG Andrew Jackson   OC Stefen Wisniewski OC Tim Barnes OC Jake Kirkpatrick     DE/LB Robert Quinn DE/LB Aldon Smith DE Cameron Jordan DE JJ Watt DE/LB Ryan Kerrigan DE Cameron Heyward DE/LB Brooks Reed DE/LB Allen Bailey   DT Marcell Dareus DT Corey Liuget DT Muhammed Wilkerson DT Christian Ballard DT Phil Taylor DT Marvin Austin DT Terrell McClain   OLB Von Miller OLB Akeem Ayers OLB Bruce Carter OLB Mark Herzlich OLB Chris Carter ILB Martez Wilson   CB Patrick Peterson CB Prince Amukamara CB Brandon Harris CB Johnny Patrick CB Curtis Brown CB Buster Skrine CB Ryan Jones CB Justin Rogers S Aaron Williams S Rahim Moore S Ahmad Black CB/S Richard Sherman S Joe Lefeged S Shiloh Keo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 Trades: Atlanta Trades #27 --- Buffalo Trades #34, #68 New England Trades #28 --- San Diego Trades #50, #61 New England Trades #33 --- Jacksonville Trades #49, #80 Round 1 1.        Carolina Panthers – Cameron Newton, QB, Auburn 2.        Denver Broncos – Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama 3.        Buffalo Bills – Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M 4.        Cincinnati Bengals –   Julio Jones, WR, Alabama 5.        Arizona Cardinals – Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri 6.        Cleveland Browns – AJ Green, WR, Georgia 7.        San Francisco 49ers – Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU 8.        Tennessee Titans – Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn 9.        Dallas Cowboys – Tyron Smith, OT, USC 10.    Washington Redskins – Robert Quinn, LB, North Carolina 11.    Houston Texans – Ryan Kerrigan, LB, Purdue 12.    Minnesota Vikings – Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson 13.    Detroit Lions – Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska 14.    St. Louis Rams – Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri 15.    Miami Dolphins – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas 16.    Jacksonville Jaguars – JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin 17.    New England Patriots – Cameron Jordan, DE, California 18.    San Diego Chargers – Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA 19.    New York Giants – Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida 20.    Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa 21.    Kansas City Chiefs – Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin 22.    Indianapolis Colts – Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College 23.    Philadelphia Eagles – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado 24.    New Orleans Saints – Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple 25.    Seattle Seahawks – Jake Locker, QB, Washington 26.    Baltimore Ravens – Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado 27.    Buffalo Bills (f/ATL)   – Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State 28.    San Diego Chargers (f/NE)   –   Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State 29.    Chicago Bears – Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor 30.    New York Jets – Phil Taylor, NT, Baylor 31.    Pittsburgh Steelers – Aaron Williams, CB/S, Texas Round 2 1.     Jacksonville Jaguars (f/NE) – Andy Dalton, QB, TCU 2.     Atlanta Falcons (f/BUF) – Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame 3.     Cincinnati Bengals – Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina 4.     Denver Broncos – Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada 5.     Cleveland Browns – Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois 6.     Arizona Cardinals – Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL) 7.     Tennessee Titans – Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois 8.     Dallas Cowboys – Rahim Moore, S, UCLA 9.     Washington Redskins – Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama 10.   Houston Texans – Ras-I Dowling, CB/S, Virginia Tech 11.   Minnesota Vikings – Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova 12.   Detroit Lions – Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State 13.   San Francisco 49ers – Justin Houston, DE/LB, Georgia 14.   Denver Broncos – Christian Ballard, DT, Iowa 15.   St. Louis Rams – Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh 16.   Oakland Raiders – Stefen Wisniewski, OG, Penn State 17.   New England Patriots (f/JAC) – Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky 18.   New England Patriots (f/SD) – Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina 19.   Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech 20.   New York Giants – Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois 21.   Indianapolis Colts – Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State 22.   Philadelphia Eagles – Curtis Brown, CB, Texas 23.   Kansas City Chiefs – Kenrick Ellis, NT, Hampton 24.   New Orleans Saints – Mason Foster, LB, Washington 25.   Seattle Seahawks – Orlando Franklin, OT, Miami (FL) 26.   Baltimore Ravens – Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami (FL) 27.   Atlanta Falcons – Jabaal Sheard, DE, Pittsburgh 28.   New England Patriots – Rodney Hudson, OG/C, Florida State 29.   New England Patriots (f/SD) – Clint Boling, OG, Georgia 30.   Chicago Bears – Jarvis Jenkins, DT, Clemson 31.    Pittsburgh Steelers – Marcus Cannon, OG, TCU 32.    Green Bay Packers – Brandon Burton, CB, Utah Patriots Picks: #17 -- DE Cameon Jordan, California #49 -- WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky #50 -- OLB Bruce Carter, North Carolina #60 -- OG/C Rodney Hudson, Florida State #61 -- OG Clint Boling, Georgia #74 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd, 2011 5th Round Pick #80 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd #92 -- RB Jordan Todman, Connecticut 4th -- OLB Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh 5th -- CB Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanoga 5th -- S Ahmad Black, Florida 6th -- QB Greg McElroy, Alabama This draft would be a perfect draft for the Patriots and one that seems extremely realsitic with the Patriots with their tendencies, and such. Includes 4 Trades for them, 2 of them trades down, and 2 of them into next year. Player wise I think they get great value. I think Jordan can add to the defense a ton at 17. He can play 5 tech and maybe even stand up in a 2 point stance at some point, in nickel he can kick inside and provide nickel pass rush. Cobb, I think just has Patriot written all over him with ability to help in multiple areas and also be a great slot WR and maybe even play outside the numbers. Bruce Carter has special ability when he plays, and would've been a top 15 talent if not for the injury. Ring any bells with a Brandon Tate type pick? Same school, same injury, stock drop cause of injury. Tate has been solid value for a 4th round pick, and I think that Carter can be real special off the edge for the Pats, he may take a while to get fully healthy, but when he does, he will be good. Then we go with 2 interior lineman. I am thinking that Light will be back on a 2-3 year deal and the fact no good enough OT were available where we picked, trading down was a better option. So we get 2 interior offensive lineman, and the eventual replacment to Koppen at C, for 10 years. Boling will be a RG, and a starter for a good deal of time, providing good 2nd round value. Whoever plays better in camp, will get the job for the year, and next year both will plug in at C and G. Then we trade 2 3rds for 2 2nd round picks next year, and a 5th this year. Giving us 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds again next year. then we go to Jordan Todman at RB. He will be a nice compliment to our current RB's, who can go inside and outside the tackles, carry a load and also catch the ball out of the backfield. Then we go another injured DE/OLB conversion guy with Greg Romeus, who without injury also would've been a 1st round pick. He has good pass rushing ability, the size BB likes at OLB, and the ability to move in space a little bit. It would be strange picking 2 OLB that are both hurt but if we connect with both or even just 1, we should have a special bookend to team up with Cunningham, and a servicable backup. Then we go 2 secondary players, one who can help out on special teams at CB, and has elite quickness and speed and COD skills. I think he can eventually develop into a stud ST player along with a nice nickel CB at worst. Black continues to drop, but I continue to love the way he plays. He wouldn't need to play every down for us, and can get down on the slot and keep up with his quickness and COD skills, along with making a tackle on a RB, or blitzing. Last, we go with McElroy who is a personal favorite of mine, and would be the one guy I bet on the Patriots drafting in this whole draft. He just has Patriots written all over him.
    Posted by sportslover21


    SL,
    Nice work.

    As for your mock, it looks like  solid overall haul.

    I love Jordan and Cobb; Boling may be a shade high, but Rd 2 isn't a drastic reach.

    You're thinking with Carter is that he'll kick inside when they go 34 and play on the outside when they go 43?  I'd be really tempted by Sheard at this point in the draft.

    The only question I have on Hudson would be his actual playing weight, if he's close to the 299, then he should be alright, if he's closer to the high 280's or low 290's, he's probably a C only in their scheme.

    Getting 2 future 2nd rounders, Todman, Romeus, Skrine and McElroy would be some solid mid-late round value and while I question Black's poor size/speed combo, he may be worth a shot in the later rounds.

    Solid class overall, IMO, if things play out like this.

     
    #17 -- DE Cameon Jordan, California
    #49 -- WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky
    #50 -- OLB Bruce Carter, North Carolina
    #60 -- OG/C Rodney Hudson, Florida State
    #61 -- OG Clint Boling, Georgia
    #74 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd, 2011 5th Round Pick
    #80 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd
    #92 -- RB Jordan Todman, Connecticut
    4th -- OLB Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh
    5th -- CB Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanoga
    5th -- S Ahmad Black, Florida
    6th -- QB Greg McElroy, Alabama
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Although I enjoy my GM role here my paying job is as an analyst, so I'm going to attempt to analyse BB's Syrus interview and what to take out of it. 
    Just the analysis based on what he says, you can read it on the link below.

    Analysis:

    Pats have a number of picks at points of the draft teams will look to improve position and they could get good compensation.  He could move up or down based on what he thinks will improve his team.

    Conversion guys are tough to project, there will be a number of them taken and DL as well as QBs will shape this draft.

    Biggest point, picks are up for bidding.  How did I do?  lol Guess to true BB form he never lets even a little bit out of the bag.  Hard to take much from what he says aside from what we all already know. 

    The ONE point that was interesting to me is his mentioning of Koa Misi, 6'2.5" 251.  He seems to use him as a successful evaluation of a DE converted to OLB.  Could this be a sign he would look at guys in that 6'2 maybe even 6'1" area rather than stick to his 6'4" 260+ requirement? 
    If he does look to get more lenient on height who could be there? If he projects one of these guys would make the transition to OLB over a taller guy.
      my list of 6'2 and under pass rusher options:

    Bruce Carter OLB 6'2" 243 (ACL surgery would most likely not play in 2011, top 15 talent could fall to 3rd round)
    Sam Acho 6'2" 262 at times looks like superman, others like invisible man, 3nd of 2nd rnd to middle 3rd.
    Dontay Moch 6'1" 248 I pointed him out hundreds of pages ago, most had over looked him because of height.  He's got a lot of work to do, on tape there are times a RT just pushes him out of play.  Once initial contact is made he's out of the play reason I've been off his bus.
    Chris Carter 6'1" 248 Carter is a very good pass rusher with long arms, would need to get stronger against the run to turn into a three down OLB.
    Mason Foster 6'2" 245 Not a pass rusher, a blitzer.  I think the Pats have a better version of this guy who is an actual pass rusher.  DF IMO is better than most of these guys.
    Mario Harvey (played ILB at Marshall) 5'11" 257 read below
    03/28/2011 - Marshall Pro day: When Mario Harvey found out he was not among the invitees to last month's NFL Scouting Combine, Marshall's pro day emerged as this fiery linebacker's key chance to show NFL teams what Marshall fans have raved about for ages. Of the 12 Marshall players and one small-schooler who worked out for NFL personnel on March 16, it was Harvey who made the most of his opportunity. The 5-foot-10 7/8, 250-pound fireplug registered a stirring 4.46 40-yard dash and put on a strong positional workout for onlookers, including a New England Patriots scout who took particular interest in the Thundering Herd defender. Harvey also logged a 32-inch vertical and 9-5 broad jump, with a 4.19-second short shuttle and 7.13 three-cone drill result. Harvey is an aggressive, energetic, play-making defender ??? some NFL team will take a chance on him for his special-teams promise and potential on defense. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com
    Bruce Miller UCF 6'2" 254
    03/25/2011
    - Central Florida Pro day: Defensive end/outside linebacker Bruce Miller (6-1 5/8, 248) also did the drills again despite running them at the combine, and in addition to his defensive positions, teams worked him out at fullback. Miller ran 40s of 4.65 and 4.67, jumped a 33 1/2 vertical and a 9-7 broad jump, and he clocked 4.31 in the short shuttle and 6.75 in the 3-cone. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

    Conference-USA Defensive Player of the Year … All-C-USA First Team … Rivals.com All-Bowl team … CBSSports.com All-Bowl team … Started all 14 games and ended the season with 63 tackles including a team-high 13.5 tackles for loss, a team-high 8.5 sacks, two interceptions returned for touchdowns, two pass break-ups, 18 quarterback hurries, and two forced fumbles.




    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4694939/belichick-talks-draft-with-sirius-radio
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : SL, Nice work. As for your mock, it looks like  solid overall haul. I love Jordan and Cobb; Boling may be a shade high, but Rd 2 isn't a drastic reach. You're thinking with Carter is that he'll kick inside when they go 34 and play on the outside when they go 43?  I'd be really tempted by Sheard at this point in the draft. The only question I have on Hudson would be his actual playing weight, if he's close to the 299, then he should be alright, if he's closer to the high 280's or low 290's, he's probably a C only in their scheme. Getting 2 future 2nd rounders, Todman, Romeus, Skrine and McElroy would be some solid mid-late round value and while I question Black's poor size/speed combo, he may be worth a shot in the later rounds. Solid class overall, IMO, if things play out like this.   #17 -- DE Cameon Jordan, California #49 -- WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky #50 -- OLB Bruce Carter, North Carolina #60 -- OG/C Rodney Hudson, Florida State #61 -- OG Clint Boling, Georgia #74 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd, 2011 5th Round Pick #80 -- TRADED FOR 2012 2nd #92 -- RB Jordan Todman, Connecticut 4th -- OLB Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh 5th -- CB Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanoga 5th -- S Ahmad Black, Florida 6th -- QB Greg McElroy, Alabama
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Thanks MB,

    As for Carter, my thinking on him is that when healthy he has the ability to play anywhere and is really scheme diverse. I think that when we are in the 4-3 he is purely an OLB, but in the 3-4, I can see him as a OLB and ILB, I think that his best assest is his ability to rush the passer with his athleticism and ability to bend and get around the edge, he may not have shown that playing a different role at North Carolina but when he does show it on tape, he flashes. But I also think he can be that sideline to sideline ILB in our scheme. Either way, I think it just adds to his value, he will be a 4 down LB, contributing on ST also, and can play on 3rd down still, and certainly on the 1st 2 downs, and I just like the kid as a player, and even moreso because he will go 2nd/3rd Round instead of Top 15, which his talent suggests.

    As for Hudson, his playing weight doesn't really concern me, but I am guessing he will look to keep that in the 295+ range, and build it up properly as opposed to what he was a chubby 299 at the combine. Whether or not he is closer to his playing weight at college or the combine weight, I think he projects to be a center on our scheme, and would be a stronghold there for 8-10 years, and even if he bulked up, I'd still want him to be our center, I just think that is his best position, and also where he can offer the most to a team. It isn't bad that if that doesn't work out he also has versitility to play Guard and 3 positions on the offensive line as a backup.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Another reason why JJ Watt is the choice,  in the first round we pick guys whose names start with M  or W

     

    Warren

    Wilfork

    Watson

    Mankins

    Maroney

    Merriwether

    Mayo

    Mcourty
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Thanks MB, As for Carter, my thinking on him is that when healthy he has the ability to play anywhere and is really scheme diverse. I think that when we are in the 4-3 he is purely an OLB, but in the 3-4, I can see him as a OLB and ILB, I think that his best assest is his ability to rush the passer with his athleticism and ability to bend and get around the edge, he may not have shown that playing a different role at North Carolina but when he does show it on tape, he flashes. But I also think he can be that sideline to sideline ILB in our scheme. Either way, I think it just adds to his value, he will be a 4 down LB, contributing on ST also, and can play on 3rd down still, and certainly on the 1st 2 downs, and I just like the kid as a player, and even moreso because he will go 2nd/3rd Round instead of Top 15, which his talent suggests. As for Hudson, his playing weight doesn't really concern me, but I am guessing he will look to keep that in the 295+ range, and build it up properly as opposed to what he was a chubby 299 at the combine. Whether or not he is closer to his playing weight at college or the combine weight, I think he projects to be a center on our scheme, and would be a stronghold there for 8-10 years, and even if he bulked up, I'd still want him to be our center, I just think that is his best position, and also where he can offer the most to a team. It isn't bad that if that doesn't work out he also has versitility to play Guard and 3 positions on the offensive line as a backup.
    Posted by sportslover21


    I'm just not seeing him as a kid that I'd take at 50 with the idea that he'll be my pass-rusher, especially with Sheard still on the board.  Again, he looks like a pretty good player (just watched some tape on him), athletic, active kid, can probably stay on the field all three downs and will provide some ST value, but I'd much prefer a Moch or Chris Carter in the middle rounds if you're looking to target an undersized speed rusher as they already have a lot of experience off the edge.  Bruce is more of an athletic 43 (could play weakside in a 34, similar to how I project Foster) that will have some value blitzing, can cover, and play sideline to sideline, but doesn't look to have a ton of experience trying to create for himself off the edge.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    To all those who want a dominating pass rusher from the OLB position atop our draft, Ryan Kerrigan is the man.  I'm still advocating for Watt, Jordan, Pouncey or Carimi first but there is no denying that Kerrigan is a stud.  Not only was he productive in college but he has all the character intangibles you want.  Kerrigan could be the next Willie McGinest to play elephant LB in place of Ninkovich.  Mb picked him early on and I would not be shocked if BB takes him at 17.  Kerrigan would be a solid pick IMO and he will be a player teams will need to account for in their game plans.  I don't think Rob Ninkovich is a player who puts fear into the heart of OCs.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Yes, Faucet, and in the interview BB seemed to make the point that evaluation of players starts on what they did in college: Kerrigan certainly has a good record.  I agree with any of your choices for #17.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    We are drafting Bowers with pick #1A,Carimi with #1B,Rudolph with 2A ,cobb with 2B, etc etc
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    To all those who want a dominating pass rusher from the OLB position atop our draft, Ryan Kerrigan is the man.  I'm still advocating for Watt, Jordan, Pouncey or Carimi first but there is no denying that Kerrigan is a stud.  Not only was he productive in college but he has all the character intangibles you want.  Kerrigan could be the next Willie McGinest to play elephant LB in place of Ninkovich.  Mb picked him early on and I would not be shocked if BB takes him at 17.  Kerrigan would be a solid pick IMO and he will be a player teams will need to account for in their game plans.  I don't think Rob Ninkovich is a player who puts fear into the heart of OCs.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I couldn't agree more Faucet. I think MB was right on with the post that started this discussion over 5,000 posts ago. 

    Kerrigan fits in so many ways. The only way he doesn't fit historically speaking is the discussion about BB not taking a conversion guy high in the draft or in round 1. I'm a believer in history as a means to help predict the future, but it's not the end all be all. Not when you have a glaring need, and a potential solution that might fall into your laps. 

    Really in my mind the only questions are;
    1. Does Kerrigan make it to 17, or is he being targeted by teams above us? Meaning, would it require a trade up, or does BB feel he can sit tight and draft him? Is the trade up somethign BB would entertain? (I don't think it would take much to move into Miami's spot should they want to trade out, if we need to get ahead of Jacksonville)
    2. How does BB value Kerrigan as compared to Brooks Reed, Aldon Smith, Houston, or other guys that can be had in the 17-28 range? All are DE conversion types, with only Houston really playing 3-4 OLB, and even that was only for 1 year.

    Kerrigan in my mind is at the top of the group I mentioned above. He has played all 4 years, has stat progression over 4 years, has the right size, speed, quickness and strength. Good at getting pressure on the QB, and also adept at forcing fumbles, playing the run, relentless, and won't ever give up on a play.

    If at 17 Kerrigan and Jordan are still there, it will be a tough decision. But, if we are keen on taking a DL/DE, we have options throughout the draft, whereas a guy like Kerrigan I don't see anywhere else in the draft beyond round 1, which to me makes it a point to grab him there. High position of need, upgrades OLB posiiton, gives us that pass rushing threat we need.

    28 can still be traded down if we want, or we can go in virtually any direction with it. I still think it's too high to start talking OT, so perhaps BB goes back to defense and selects Heyward, or trades out as so many have indicated on this board. At 33 we have choices again. We could grab one of the OT's left here, or again trade out and down.

    I love this year. We aren't forced to really do anything in terms of picking at certain places andn then waiting a full round to draft again. I can't wait to see the creativity on draft day.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Damn reports are that Austin is sneaking into the teens now that Bowers is dropping. I can see Stl looking at either Liuget or Austin but apparently they really like Liuget.  What are the chances that Indy targets Austin instead of Solder or Camiri and Camiri makes it past Phi? Now I didn't want Camiri at 17 but if Indy goes DL with Austin there is a shot Camiri could fall to 28
     
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    All Patriots..All the time.... 60 Max Power O....Exclusive draft coverage and much more

    Check us out at:

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Damn reports are that Austin is sneaking into the teens now that Bowers is dropping. I can see Stl looking at either Liuget or Austin but apparently they really like Liuget.  What are the chances that Indy targets Austin instead of Solder or Camiri and Camiri makes it past Phi? Now I didn't want Camiri at 17 but if Indy goes DL with Austin there is a shot Camiri could fall to 28
    Posted by PatsEng


    I don't think there's any chance Carimi makes it to 28, maybe Solder or Sherrod but Carimi no way.  Even if he makes it pass NYG, TB, Ind then Philly OT (23), Seattle needs OT/OG help (25), Ravens OT/OG (26), Atl OG (27)

    Now the best scenario is for Pouncey, Castonzo and Carimi are left at 22 for the Colts then they could take Pouncey, Philly takes one of the two OTs and most likely the Ravens get the other leaving Watkins, Sherrod and Ijalana at 28 if the Pats take one I go with Watkins.  I think he can play both T and G.  I just don't think with Carimi's talent and nastiness he makes it 28. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    17: Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
    28: Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi St
    33: Cameron Heyward, DL, Ohio St
    60: Clint Boling, OG, Georgia
    74: Daniel Thomas, RB, Kansas St
    92: Jalil Brown, DB, Colorado
    125: Greg Romeus, OLB, Pittsburgh
    159: Brandon Fusco, C/G, Slippery Rock
    193: Jamie Harper, RB, Clemson
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    To all those who want a dominating pass rusher from the OLB position atop our draft, Ryan Kerrigan is the man.  I'm still advocating for Watt, Jordan, Pouncey or Carimi first but there is no denying that Kerrigan is a stud.  Not only was he productive in college but he has all the character intangibles you want.  Kerrigan could be the next Willie McGinest to play elephant LB in place of Ninkovich.  Mb picked him early on and I would not be shocked if BB takes him at 17.  Kerrigan would be a solid pick IMO and he will be a player teams will need to account for in their game plans.  I don't think Rob Ninkovich is a player who puts fear into the heart of OCs.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Would love to see Kerrigan but the Pats would need to jump ahead of the Jags maybe even Detroit. Aaron Kampman (Jags) has had two ACL surgeries in as many years, Kerrigan would be a very nice replacement and day one starter.

    Wisconsin's coach, Bielma, on Path to the Draft last night speaks on how they had to game plan for Kerrigan against Perdue (3:50 min in).  For anyone not convinced on Kerrigan must listen to this coach talk about Kerrigan. 

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d81f52e68/Bielma-on-prospects

    Also talks about Watt and Carimi at the beginning of the interview but hearing him talk about Kerrigan was the highlight of the interview. 

    For Kerrigan I believe Jags are the biggest threat at 16 but both Min and Det could also use a DE.  I don't think the Jags take a chance on Bowers having gone through Kapman's ACL injuries.  The only chance I'm thinking is if they shock the world and take Martez Wilson, they are in need of a MLB but at 16 Wilson is a reach not as bad as Alualu at 10 so could happen.

    If Kerrigan Watt and Carimi are there at 17 who do you take?  I preffer Watt then at 28ish get Reed
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Would love to see Kerrigan but the Pats would need to jump ahead of the Jags maybe even Detroit. Aaron Kampman (Jags) has had two ACL surgeries in as many years, Kerrigan would be a very nice replacement and day one starter. Wisconsin's coach, Bielma, on Path to the Draft last night speaks on how they had to game plan for Kerrigan against Perdue (3:50 min in).  For anyone not convinced on Kerrigan must listen to this coach talk about Kerrigan.  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d81f52e68/Bielma-on-prospects Also talks about Watt and Carimi at the beginning of the interview but hearing him talk about Kerrigan was the highlight of the interview.  For Kerrigan I believe Jags are the biggest threat at 16 but both Min and Det could also use a DE.  I don't think the Jags take a chance on Bowers having gone through Kapman's ACL injuries.  The only chance I'm thinking is if they shock the world and take Martez Wilson, they are in need of a MLB but at 16 Wilson is a reach not as bad as Alualu at 10 so could happen. If Kerrigan Watt and Carimi are there at 17 who do you take?  I preffer Watt then at 28ish get Reed
    Posted by Pats7393


    If given the choice at 17 between Kerrigan, Watt and Carimi, my choice is Kerrigan. I know there are a lot of Watt lovers here, as am I, but we could still get a quality DE at 28 with Heyward. Is there a lot of drop off between Watt and Heyward? I don't think so. Who fits our scheme better? I would argue Heyward.
    Kyle posted a recent mock with us taking Heyward at 33. I would love for him to be there, but I don't think he makes it past the Jets at 28. The Jets will be deciding probably between Reed, Ayers, Heyward possibly others, I don't know if they pass on Heyward here given their need at DE with Ellis possibly walking. That convinces me that if we want a DE early, we go get Heyward at 28.

    I'm really on the fence with pick 28. I know we'll get plenty of trade offers, but do we pass on Heyward here if given the chance to pick up a 2012 first and a 2011 2nd or 3rd?....I roll the dice here and trade down and into next year, wait until round 2 or 3 and maybe target Jenkins. Jenkins is going to be a good run stuffer, but I'm not counting on him for much pressure on the QB. Perhaps we have enough guys at DE/DT that are like him, perhaps we pass on DL all together in this draft or wait until later rounds.

    I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : If given the choice at 17 between Kerrigan, Watt and Carimi, my choice is Kerrigan. I know there are a lot of Watt lovers here, as am I, but we could still get a quality DE at 28 with Heyward. Is there a lot of drop off between Watt and Heyward? I don't think so. Who fits our scheme better? I would argue Heyward. Kyle posted a recent mock with us taking Heyward at 33. I would love for him to be there, but I don't think he makes it past the Jets at 28. The Jets will be deciding probably between Reed, Ayers, Heyward possibly others, I don't know if they pass on Heyward here given their need at DE with Ellis possibly walking. That convinces me that if we want a DE early, we go get Heyward at 28. I'm really on the fence with pick 28. I know we'll get plenty of trade offers, but do we pass on Heyward here if given the chance to pick up a 2012 first and a 2011 2nd or 3rd?....I roll the dice here and trade down and into next year, wait until round 2 or 3 and maybe target Jenkins. Jenkins is going to be a good run stuffer, but I'm not counting on him for much pressure on the QB. Perhaps we have enough guys at DE/DT that are like him, perhaps we pass on DL all together in this draft or wait until later rounds. I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?
    Posted by PatsLifer


    The problem is I don't think Heyward makes it past 26. Balt is rumored to be in love with Heyward and their silence on the matter is telling to say the least. Heyward might even be gone before Balt has a chance to grab him. You have to figure at this point in the draft the DL left on the board after the Pats and SD might be Taylor, Ellis, Wilkerson, Heyward, Bowers, Houston and Clayborn as legitimate prospects. Now Everyone thinks Taylor is on his way to KC and NO, Sea, Atl, Balt, TB are looking for some DL help with wild cards of NYG and Indy possible also going DL. How I've seen this played out by the so called "experts" is Bowers falling to NO and TB taking Houston. Ellis and Clayborn are the most likely to fall into the very late 1st early 2nd range which leaves Heyward and Wilkerson. Looking at Atl and Balt's it's unlikely that Heyward gets past both but Wilkerson might. However, there are also rumors that if Jordan and Watt are gone before SD picks Wilkerson will be their pick. Any way I look at it I don't see Heyward making it to 28. The players I see making it to 28 are really Reed, Ayers, Clayborn, and Ellis. Now I would put Watt well over Clayborn or Ellis but I'm not convinced Kerrigan will be that much better then Reed or Ayers (don't get me wrong I think he will be better but not by leaps and bounds)). In the ed though I don't think Kerrigan gets past Jax truthfully. He's just to good of a fit for them.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***


    Building on my previous post....

    I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?

    I would argue the following;
    1. We don't need any 2 down run stuffers. Seem to have plenty of those.
    2. We need either a 3-4 DE, and/or a 4-3 DT that can penetrate and disrupt.
    3. Possible guys along the DL that could be upgraded on my list would include; Deaderick, Love, Pryor, Cohen. It's almost not worth upgrading any of them, unless we look to take someone early enough to displace any 1 or many of the above.

    Here is my short list of DE/DT's that I think fit based on #2 above. This assumes round 2-6, and we pass all together in round 1. In order;
    1. Heyward (would be a capable 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT) if he can be had at 33 or slight trade down
    2. Austin (if he makes it to round 2, and passes the character test). Athletically, he is my ideal fit at 4-3 DT based on #2 above.
    3. Kenrick Ellis (I think he could solve 3 challenges we have; 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT). He's somewhat of a knucklehead, but if he passed the character test, I like his size and versatility.
    4. Jarvis Jenkins (He like Heyward could be a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT). His a beat weak for a guy his size, not really a pass rushing threat, but can occupy double teams, so he would be my 3rd-4th round selection for 3-4 DE.

    I think the above are upgrades over the guys I mentioned possibly replacing. I think the below list are on the bubble in terms of replacing anyone on our current roster and gettign any significant playing time.

    5. Lawrence Guy (I like his upside). He needs to improve the way he plays the run, but he gets good penetration and can collapse the pocket. Could fill 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT positions.
    6. Sione Fua (purely a 4-3 DT). Does he present an upgrade over Pyror, Cohen?

    That's my short list...very short, but I just don't see really anyone else in this draft out of round 1 that really upgrades the roster other than the above in any significant way on the DL. And, even some of the above guys like Austin and Ellis have character concerns.

    Ok, this is making me think twice about my previous comment on taking Kerrigan over Watt because I think there are some quality DE/OLB's in round 2 like Sheard, Acho, Foster, etc. that can be pass rushers.

    I guess in part it comes down to the drop-off discussion....Is there a larger drop-off at DE/DT in rounds 1-2 than later in the draft than at DE/OLB converts?

    Watt/Jordan to Heyward to Jenkins to Guy
    or
    Kerrigan to Houston to Reed to Sheard to Foster?

    Help me guys, i'm going loco in la cabeza.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    An interview of Brooks Reed

    http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/derek/2011/04/12/catching-up-with-arizona-de-brooks-reed/

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I made it in for a few surprises, I think Green is the much better football player but my mock is what I think the teams will do, and I think Jones is who CIN would go if they went WR. I agree on HOU, that I can't see them passing Amukamara, but recently, a few trusted draft sources, mainly Wes Bunting and Tony Pauline, that HOU is considering Kerrigan, Quinn and Smith highly at the 11 position in the draft and may take them over Amukamara, cause they deseparetly need a new pass rusher either at OLB or the 5-tech for Wade Phillips coming in. They also are interested in JJ Watt, supposedly. So while I'd take Prince again, I think that is a nice twist as for what could possibly happen. I originally had trouble with Carter as a scheme fit also, but I feel that he can hold up when he needs to against the run, can drop in coverage with athleticism and has great ability to rush the passer, which would be his #1 assignment. He may not be the best fit but if we haven't addressed the need until the late 2nd round I'd jump on him. As for Boling, as I said in the previous post, he may never be a pro bowler but he will be steady and be a very solid RG for 6-10 years, and that's good value for a pick at #61 in the draft.
    Posted by sportslover21

    Carter would have been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his ACL.  But I think he brings more value to a 43 team.  BB took a chance on Tyron McKenzie a couple years ago and he never fully recovered, or at least not well enough to stick.  Carter will not play in 2011 so I think he will drop into the late 2nd to a good team that can wait, but a 43 team, CHI or ATL perhaps.

    I'm not a Boling fan.  I like Schilling or Moffitt much better and both could be had 3rd round.  Now it seems like I'm knit picking.

    Anyway, saw a piece on PttD that WAS is seriously considering Mallett at 10.  They also suggested that ARI might not go QB, that they were burned by Lienart and would prefer to let other teams draft the rookies and wait for a F/A.  If to, they likely take Miller.  CIN could easily take Gabbert or he could fall to SF at 7 but doesn't get past TEN at 8.  BUF at 3 is the key to what happens in the top 10.  Newton/Dareus then what does BUF do?  Do they take Miller?  I think so, because the key to beating Brady is pressure.

    #1   Newton
    #2   Dareus
    #3   Miller
    #4   Gabbert
    #5   Peterson
    #6   Green
    #7   Quinn?
    #8   Fairley
    #9   Watt or Tyron Smith
    #10  Mallett
    #11  Amukamara
    #12  A. Smith, J. Jones or C. Jordan  This is where I get stuck because MIN has all the pieces, they just need a veteran QB to try to win it all now.  Like ARI, I think MIN holds off on QB and could look to trade down or draft a DE, like Aldon Smith or even a Cam Jordan.  If DAL takes Tyron Smith, the Pats could move up here with pick 74 for JJ Watt.  If MIN stays put they could take Julio Jones too.
    13.  JJ Watt- They need a CB but getting a stud DE to play next to Suh means they don't need their corners to cover very long.
    14.  J. Jones- STL can't believe their good fortune
    15.  Pouncey- There are no QBs worthy this high and RBs can be had later.
    16.  A. Smith
    17. 

    This leaves Carimi, Solder or Kerrigan, IMO.  The Ingram visit was a smoke screen meant to entice Miami to take him.  BB won't touch Castonzo because of his agent.  The Corey Liuget visit has me scratching my head a little.  Would the Pats consider a 3 technique for nickel situations?  It makes sense in that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  If we were going to do that wouldn't Marvin Austin make more sense?  He's faster and stronger. 

    I think if the draft unfolds like this we look to trade down or perhaps just take Kerrigan because BB is sure to be in love with everything about the player and person.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Any chance BB takes M. Ingram at #17?  It's not really his MO to wait on a guy and take the risk that he's taken by another team.  I think this rumor is either all a big smokescreen or that he trades in front of Miami to take him at around #12.

    What are your thoughts?  
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Carter would have been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his ACL.  But I think he brings more value to a 43 team.  BB took a chance on Tyron McKenzie a couple years ago and he never fully recovered, or at least not well enough to stick.  Carter will not play in 2011 so I think he will drop into the late 2nd to a good team that can wait, but a 43 team, CHI or ATL perhaps. I'm not a Boling fan.  I like Schilling or Moffitt much better and both could be had 3rd round.  Now it seems like I'm knit picking. Anyway, saw a piece on PttD that WAS is seriously considering Mallett at 10.  They also suggested that ARI might not go QB, that they were burned by Lienart and would prefer to let other teams draft the rookies and wait for a F/A.  If to, they likely take Miller.  CIN could easily take Gabbert or he could fall to SF at 7 but doesn't get past TEN at 8.  BUF at 3 is the key to what happens in the top 10.  Newton/Dareus then what does BUF do?  Do they take Miller?  I think so, because the key to beating Brady is pressure. #1   Newton #2   Dareus #3   Miller #4   Gabbert #5   Peterson #6   Green #7   Quinn? #8   Fairley #9   Watt or Tyron Smith #10  Mallett #11  Amukamara #12  A. Smith, J. Jones or C. Jordan   This is where I get stuck because MIN has all the pieces, they just need a veteran QB to try to win it all now.  Like ARI, I think MIN holds off on QB and could look to trade down or draft a DE, like Aldon Smith or even a Cam Jordan.  If DAL takes Tyron Smith, the Pats could move up here with pick 74 for JJ Watt.  If MIN stays put they could take Julio Jones too. 13.  JJ Watt - They need a CB but getting a stud DE to play next to Suh means they don't need their corners to cover very long. 14.  J. Jones - STL can't believe their good fortune 15.  Pouncey - There are no QBs worthy this high and RBs can be had later. 16.  A. Smith 17.  This leaves Carimi, Solder or Kerrigan, IMO.  The Ingram visit was a smoke screen meant to entice Miami to take him.  BB won't touch Castonzo because of his agent.  The Corey Liuget visit has me scratching my head a little.  Would the Pats consider a 3 technique for nickel situations?  It makes sense in that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  If we were going to do that wouldn't Marvin Austin make more sense?  He's faster and stronger.  I think if the draft unfolds like this we look to trade down or perhaps just take Kerrigan because BB is sure to be in love with everything about the player and person.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Sound reasoning as always Faucet.

    My personal opinion is that Jacksonville at 16 is more enamored with Kerrigan than Aldon Smith. Assuming that to be the case, and Smith is there at 17, would you take him? OR, might you trade up to Miami and take Kerrigan.

    IF I had to decide to trade up to 15 and take Kerrigan or sit at 17 and possibly draft Smith, I'm making 2 moves up ahead of Jacksonville.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:


    The amount of interviews, workouts, and wine and dine they've done with Reed is disappointing to me. It seems like they are using him as a smoke screen. Unless that's what they want us to think.

    My god they put poison in both glasses  O.O
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Building on my previous post.... I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts? I would argue the following; 1. We don't need any 2 down run stuffers. Seem to have plenty of those. 2. We need either a 3-4 DE, and/or a 4-3 DT that can penetrate and disrupt. 3. Possible guys along the DL that could be upgraded on my list would include; Deaderick, Love, Pryor, Cohen. It's almost not worth upgrading any of them, unless we look to take someone early enough to displace any 1 or many of the above. Here is my short list of DE/DT's that I think fit based on #2 above. This assumes round 2-6, and we pass all together in round 1. In order; 1. Heyward (would be a capable 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT) if he can be had at 33 or slight trade down 2. Austin (if he makes it to round 2, and passes the character test). Athletically, he is my ideal fit at 4-3 DT based on #2 above. 3. Kenrick Ellis (I think he could solve 3 challenges we have; 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT). He's somewhat of a knucklehead, but if he passed the character test, I like his size and versatility. 4. Jarvis Jenkins (He like Heyward could be a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT). His a beat weak for a guy his size, not really a pass rushing threat, but can occupy double teams, so he would be my 3rd-4th round selection for 3-4 DE. I think the above are upgrades over the guys I mentioned possibly replacing. I think the below list are on the bubble in terms of replacing anyone on our current roster and gettign any significant playing time. 5. Lawrence Guy (I like his upside). He needs to improve the way he plays the run, but he gets good penetration and can collapse the pocket. Could fill 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT positions. 6. Sione Fua (purely a 4-3 DT). Does he present an upgrade over Pyror, Cohen? That's my short list...very short, but I just don't see really anyone else in this draft out of round 1 that really upgrades the roster other than the above in any significant way on the DL. And, even some of the above guys like Austin and Ellis have character concerns. Ok, this is making me think twice about my previous comment on taking Kerrigan over Watt because I think there are some quality DE/OLB's in round 2 like Sheard, Acho, Foster, etc. that can be pass rushers. I guess in part it comes down to the drop-off discussion....Is there a larger drop-off at DE/DT in rounds 1-2 than later in the draft than at DE/OLB converts? Watt/Jordan to Heyward to Jenkins to Guy or Kerrigan to Houston to Reed to Sheard to Foster? Help me guys, i'm going loco in la cabeza.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    here to help PL.

    I think once you get pass Darius, Watt, Jordan the drop off is this, MOTOR!

    everyother 34 DE seems to have a bit of a question on motor and consistency.  I really would like a guy that goes none stop for 60 minutes which will help Cunningham, Moore and who ever else plays OLB.

    Watt can kick inside in nickle and provide an immediate upgrade.  He and Wright inside would be a nightmare and a handfull on passing downs.

    I love Kerrigan but think Watt would make a bigger impact and play more downs. 

    I believe you can get a speed rusher in the 2nd round even going into mid to late rounds

    I like Eric Moore and Dane Fletcher from what I saw last season, they could be the wildcards on all this. 

    Ayers late 1st maybe early 2nd
    Houston 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Reed 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Sheard 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Acho 2nd
    Carter 2nd
    Foster 3rd rnd
    Moch 3rd rnd
    K.J. Wright 3rd/4th rnd
    Romeous 3rd/4th rnd
    Chinasa 4th
    Herzlich 4th/5th maybe 6th?
    Cliff Mathews 5th/6th
    Markus White 6th/7th
    Eddie Jones 6th/7th rnd
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Arizona will probably gamble here, hopping there's a rookie scale in place.  If not they will pay for the trade but that team is close and could compete with a QB who can get LF and those weapons the ball.  Ten moves as well. I don't know watt makes it to where I have him but can fall if teams move around base on those team needs. Pick Team Trade Player Posit. 1 Arz 5, 38   Blaine Gabbert - With rummors of the Skins trying to move up Arz takes no chances and lands their QB. QB 2 Den - Marcell Dareus DT 3 Buf - Patrick Peterson CB 4 Ten 8, 39 Cam Newton - Was does not have enough picks to get to Newton, they'll have to settle for a 2nd rnd QB QB 5 Car 1 A.J. Green WR 6 Hou 6,73, 105 Prince Amukamara CB 7 SF - Von Miller OLB 8 Cin 4, 109 Julio Jones WR 9 Dal - Tyron Smith OT 10 Was - Jake Locker QB 11 Cle 6 Robert Quinn DE/OLB 12 Min - Nick Fairley DT 13 SD 18, 61 Cam Jordan DE 14 StL - Mike Pouncey OG/C 15 Phi 23, 85, 104 Anthony Costanzo with NE, Det, NYG, TB, KC Ind needing OL help they move up to help keep Vick healthy OT 16 Jac - Ryan Kerrigan their DE Aaron Kampman is on his second ACL surgery in as many seasons, Kerrigan takes his place DE 17 NO 24, 72 Aldon Smith DE 18 Det 13 Jimmy Smith CB 19 NYG - Gabe Carimi OT/OG 20 TB - Adrian Clayborn DE 21 KC - Phil Taylor NT 22 Ind - Nate Solder   OT 23 Mia 15 Mark Ingram RB 24 NE 17 J.J. Watt DE 25 Sea - Ryan Mallet QB 26 Bal - Danny Watkins OG/OT 27 Atl - Kyle Rudolph TE 28 Cin 35, 101 Christian Ponder QB 29 Chi   Derek Sherrod OT 30 NYJ   Jabaal Sheard OLB 31 Pit   Ben Ijalana OT/OG 32 GB   Cameron Heyward DE           33 Min 43, 106, 139 Andy Dalton QB           35 NE 28 Brooks Reed OLB 43 NE 33 TRADED Jack 49, 114 Jack draft Colin Kaepernick     49 NE 43 Traded 2012 SF 2nd rnd & 115 (For WR Hankerson)   60 NE - James Carpenter OT 72 NE 17 Edmond Gates WR 74 NE - TRADED 2012 2nd   90 NE - John Moffitt OG/C 101 NE 28 Rob Housler TE/WR 114 NE 43 Alex Green RB 115 NE 49 TRADED 2012 3rd (Was),   213 & 224   125 NE - TRADED 2012 3rd   159 NE - Zach Hurd OT/OG 193 NE - Mark Herzlich LB 213 NE 115 Justin Rogers CB 224 NE 115 Mark LeGree FS
    Posted by Pats7393

    JJ Watt doesn't make it to 17, let alone 24.  If he's there at 17 we better be running to the podium.

    I'm starting to warm up to Herzlich a little later on.  We saw Jon Lester make a full recovery from a different form of cancer so maybe Herzlich will do the same and perhaps once fully recovered would return to top form which once made him the ACC Defensive Player of the Year. 

    If there is a way to land Kerrigan and Carimi in the first round that would really set up the rest of our draft nicely.  For me, getting Carimi does these things for you. 

    1)  Tell Matt Light his $7MM offer is off the table
    2)  Cut Kaczur and his $3.5MM
    3)  Use the savings to extend Mankins long term (this is the important piece).  The sides were about $1.5MM apart so we can make Mankins the highest paid OG in the NFL and still have $9MM in savings from what we offered him.
    4)  Use the $8-9MM in cap savings to land a marquis player.
    5)  Can move Vollmer to LT and we've actually improved our pass protection and running game and got a whole lot younger on the OL from 30 to 27. 

    How can we get both players without giving up too much?  Can we move down from 17 then up from 28 using what we got to move down?  If we can, we could do this.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Sound reasoning as always Faucet. My personal opinion is that Jacksonville at 16 is more enamored with Kerrigan than Aldon Smith. Assuming that to be the case, and Smith is there at 17, would you take him? OR, might you trade up to Miami and take Kerrigan. IF I had to decide to trade up to 15 and take Kerrigan or sit at 17 and possibly draft Smith, I'm making 2 moves up ahead of Jacksonville.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    JAX might actually go with Ponder if things unfold like this. 

    I would not trade up for a conversion player.  I would go plan B and take Carimi based on the value a Carimi selection would represent from my last post.

    What if we took Kerrigan at 17 then traded up to 20 from 28 to get Carimi?  Pick 74 is more than enough to do it and we could get a 6-7 rounder back.  If TB is going RB or ILB, they can still have their choice at 28.  We then trade 33 back and draft Wisniewski around 53 and still have pick 60 and 92 to address RB.  Although IND never trades, they could come up to 33 to get Dalton.  Manning isn't signed and the Colts really like Dalton.
     
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