2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    17: Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
    28: Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi St
    33: Cameron Heyward, DL, Ohio St
    60: Clint Boling, OG, Georgia
    74: Daniel Thomas, RB, Kansas St
    92: Jalil Brown, DB, Colorado
    125: Greg Romeus, OLB, Pittsburgh
    159: Brandon Fusco, C/G, Slippery Rock
    193: Jamie Harper, RB, Clemson
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]To all those who want a dominating pass rusher from the OLB position atop our draft, Ryan Kerrigan is the man.  I'm still advocating for Watt, Jordan, Pouncey or Carimi first but there is no denying that Kerrigan is a stud.  Not only was he productive in college but he has all the character intangibles you want.  Kerrigan could be the next Willie McGinest to play elephant LB in place of Ninkovich.  Mb picked him early on and I would not be shocked if BB takes him at 17.  Kerrigan would be a solid pick IMO and he will be a player teams will need to account for in their game plans.  I don't think Rob Ninkovich is a player who puts fear into the heart of OCs.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Would love to see Kerrigan but the Pats would need to jump ahead of the Jags maybe even Detroit. Aaron Kampman (Jags) has had two ACL surgeries in as many years, Kerrigan would be a very nice replacement and day one starter.

    Wisconsin's coach, Bielma, on Path to the Draft last night speaks on how they had to game plan for Kerrigan against Perdue (3:50 min in).  For anyone not convinced on Kerrigan must listen to this coach talk about Kerrigan. 

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d81f52e68/Bielma-on-prospects

    Also talks about Watt and Carimi at the beginning of the interview but hearing him talk about Kerrigan was the highlight of the interview. 

    For Kerrigan I believe Jags are the biggest threat at 16 but both Min and Det could also use a DE.  I don't think the Jags take a chance on Bowers having gone through Kapman's ACL injuries.  The only chance I'm thinking is if they shock the world and take Martez Wilson, they are in need of a MLB but at 16 Wilson is a reach not as bad as Alualu at 10 so could happen.

    If Kerrigan Watt and Carimi are there at 17 who do you take?  I preffer Watt then at 28ish get Reed
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Would love to see Kerrigan but the Pats would need to jump ahead of the Jags maybe even Detroit. Aaron Kampman (Jags) has had two ACL surgeries in as many years, Kerrigan would be a very nice replacement and day one starter. Wisconsin's coach, Bielma, on Path to the Draft last night speaks on how they had to game plan for Kerrigan against Perdue (3:50 min in).  For anyone not convinced on Kerrigan must listen to this coach talk about Kerrigan.  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d81f52e68/Bielma-on-prospects Also talks about Watt and Carimi at the beginning of the interview but hearing him talk about Kerrigan was the highlight of the interview.  For Kerrigan I believe Jags are the biggest threat at 16 but both Min and Det could also use a DE.  I don't think the Jags take a chance on Bowers having gone through Kapman's ACL injuries.  The only chance I'm thinking is if they shock the world and take Martez Wilson, they are in need of a MLB but at 16 Wilson is a reach not as bad as Alualu at 10 so could happen. If Kerrigan Watt and Carimi are there at 17 who do you take?  I preffer Watt then at 28ish get Reed
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    If given the choice at 17 between Kerrigan, Watt and Carimi, my choice is Kerrigan. I know there are a lot of Watt lovers here, as am I, but we could still get a quality DE at 28 with Heyward. Is there a lot of drop off between Watt and Heyward? I don't think so. Who fits our scheme better? I would argue Heyward.
    Kyle posted a recent mock with us taking Heyward at 33. I would love for him to be there, but I don't think he makes it past the Jets at 28. The Jets will be deciding probably between Reed, Ayers, Heyward possibly others, I don't know if they pass on Heyward here given their need at DE with Ellis possibly walking. That convinces me that if we want a DE early, we go get Heyward at 28.

    I'm really on the fence with pick 28. I know we'll get plenty of trade offers, but do we pass on Heyward here if given the chance to pick up a 2012 first and a 2011 2nd or 3rd?....I roll the dice here and trade down and into next year, wait until round 2 or 3 and maybe target Jenkins. Jenkins is going to be a good run stuffer, but I'm not counting on him for much pressure on the QB. Perhaps we have enough guys at DE/DT that are like him, perhaps we pass on DL all together in this draft or wait until later rounds.

    I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : If given the choice at 17 between Kerrigan, Watt and Carimi, my choice is Kerrigan. I know there are a lot of Watt lovers here, as am I, but we could still get a quality DE at 28 with Heyward. Is there a lot of drop off between Watt and Heyward? I don't think so. Who fits our scheme better? I would argue Heyward. Kyle posted a recent mock with us taking Heyward at 33. I would love for him to be there, but I don't think he makes it past the Jets at 28. The Jets will be deciding probably between Reed, Ayers, Heyward possibly others, I don't know if they pass on Heyward here given their need at DE with Ellis possibly walking. That convinces me that if we want a DE early, we go get Heyward at 28. I'm really on the fence with pick 28. I know we'll get plenty of trade offers, but do we pass on Heyward here if given the chance to pick up a 2012 first and a 2011 2nd or 3rd?....I roll the dice here and trade down and into next year, wait until round 2 or 3 and maybe target Jenkins. Jenkins is going to be a good run stuffer, but I'm not counting on him for much pressure on the QB. Perhaps we have enough guys at DE/DT that are like him, perhaps we pass on DL all together in this draft or wait until later rounds. I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    The problem is I don't think Heyward makes it past 26. Balt is rumored to be in love with Heyward and their silence on the matter is telling to say the least. Heyward might even be gone before Balt has a chance to grab him. You have to figure at this point in the draft the DL left on the board after the Pats and SD might be Taylor, Ellis, Wilkerson, Heyward, Bowers, Houston and Clayborn as legitimate prospects. Now Everyone thinks Taylor is on his way to KC and NO, Sea, Atl, Balt, TB are looking for some DL help with wild cards of NYG and Indy possible also going DL. How I've seen this played out by the so called "experts" is Bowers falling to NO and TB taking Houston. Ellis and Clayborn are the most likely to fall into the very late 1st early 2nd range which leaves Heyward and Wilkerson. Looking at Atl and Balt's it's unlikely that Heyward gets past both but Wilkerson might. However, there are also rumors that if Jordan and Watt are gone before SD picks Wilkerson will be their pick. Any way I look at it I don't see Heyward making it to 28. The players I see making it to 28 are really Reed, Ayers, Clayborn, and Ellis. Now I would put Watt well over Clayborn or Ellis but I'm not convinced Kerrigan will be that much better then Reed or Ayers (don't get me wrong I think he will be better but not by leaps and bounds)). In the ed though I don't think Kerrigan gets past Jax truthfully. He's just to good of a fit for them.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***


    Building on my previous post....

    I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts?

    I would argue the following;
    1. We don't need any 2 down run stuffers. Seem to have plenty of those.
    2. We need either a 3-4 DE, and/or a 4-3 DT that can penetrate and disrupt.
    3. Possible guys along the DL that could be upgraded on my list would include; Deaderick, Love, Pryor, Cohen. It's almost not worth upgrading any of them, unless we look to take someone early enough to displace any 1 or many of the above.

    Here is my short list of DE/DT's that I think fit based on #2 above. This assumes round 2-6, and we pass all together in round 1. In order;
    1. Heyward (would be a capable 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT) if he can be had at 33 or slight trade down
    2. Austin (if he makes it to round 2, and passes the character test). Athletically, he is my ideal fit at 4-3 DT based on #2 above.
    3. Kenrick Ellis (I think he could solve 3 challenges we have; 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT). He's somewhat of a knucklehead, but if he passed the character test, I like his size and versatility.
    4. Jarvis Jenkins (He like Heyward could be a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT). His a beat weak for a guy his size, not really a pass rushing threat, but can occupy double teams, so he would be my 3rd-4th round selection for 3-4 DE.

    I think the above are upgrades over the guys I mentioned possibly replacing. I think the below list are on the bubble in terms of replacing anyone on our current roster and gettign any significant playing time.

    5. Lawrence Guy (I like his upside). He needs to improve the way he plays the run, but he gets good penetration and can collapse the pocket. Could fill 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT positions.
    6. Sione Fua (purely a 4-3 DT). Does he present an upgrade over Pyror, Cohen?

    That's my short list...very short, but I just don't see really anyone else in this draft out of round 1 that really upgrades the roster other than the above in any significant way on the DL. And, even some of the above guys like Austin and Ellis have character concerns.

    Ok, this is making me think twice about my previous comment on taking Kerrigan over Watt because I think there are some quality DE/OLB's in round 2 like Sheard, Acho, Foster, etc. that can be pass rushers.

    I guess in part it comes down to the drop-off discussion....Is there a larger drop-off at DE/DT in rounds 1-2 than later in the draft than at DE/OLB converts?

    Watt/Jordan to Heyward to Jenkins to Guy
    or
    Kerrigan to Houston to Reed to Sheard to Foster?

    Help me guys, i'm going loco in la cabeza.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    An interview of Brooks Reed

    http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/derek/2011/04/12/catching-up-with-arizona-de-brooks-reed/

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I made it in for a few surprises, I think Green is the much better football player but my mock is what I think the teams will do, and I think Jones is who CIN would go if they went WR. I agree on HOU, that I can't see them passing Amukamara, but recently, a few trusted draft sources, mainly Wes Bunting and Tony Pauline, that HOU is considering Kerrigan, Quinn and Smith highly at the 11 position in the draft and may take them over Amukamara, cause they deseparetly need a new pass rusher either at OLB or the 5-tech for Wade Phillips coming in. They also are interested in JJ Watt, supposedly. So while I'd take Prince again, I think that is a nice twist as for what could possibly happen. I originally had trouble with Carter as a scheme fit also, but I feel that he can hold up when he needs to against the run, can drop in coverage with athleticism and has great ability to rush the passer, which would be his #1 assignment. He may not be the best fit but if we haven't addressed the need until the late 2nd round I'd jump on him. As for Boling, as I said in the previous post, he may never be a pro bowler but he will be steady and be a very solid RG for 6-10 years, and that's good value for a pick at #61 in the draft.
    Posted by sportslover21

    Carter would have been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his ACL.  But I think he brings more value to a 43 team.  BB took a chance on Tyron McKenzie a couple years ago and he never fully recovered, or at least not well enough to stick.  Carter will not play in 2011 so I think he will drop into the late 2nd to a good team that can wait, but a 43 team, CHI or ATL perhaps.

    I'm not a Boling fan.  I like Schilling or Moffitt much better and both could be had 3rd round.  Now it seems like I'm knit picking.

    Anyway, saw a piece on PttD that WAS is seriously considering Mallett at 10.  They also suggested that ARI might not go QB, that they were burned by Lienart and would prefer to let other teams draft the rookies and wait for a F/A.  If to, they likely take Miller.  CIN could easily take Gabbert or he could fall to SF at 7 but doesn't get past TEN at 8.  BUF at 3 is the key to what happens in the top 10.  Newton/Dareus then what does BUF do?  Do they take Miller?  I think so, because the key to beating Brady is pressure.

    #1   Newton
    #2   Dareus
    #3   Miller
    #4   Gabbert
    #5   Peterson
    #6   Green
    #7   Quinn?
    #8   Fairley
    #9   Watt or Tyron Smith
    #10  Mallett
    #11  Amukamara
    #12  A. Smith, J. Jones or C. Jordan  This is where I get stuck because MIN has all the pieces, they just need a veteran QB to try to win it all now.  Like ARI, I think MIN holds off on QB and could look to trade down or draft a DE, like Aldon Smith or even a Cam Jordan.  If DAL takes Tyron Smith, the Pats could move up here with pick 74 for JJ Watt.  If MIN stays put they could take Julio Jones too.
    13.  JJ Watt- They need a CB but getting a stud DE to play next to Suh means they don't need their corners to cover very long.
    14.  J. Jones- STL can't believe their good fortune
    15.  Pouncey- There are no QBs worthy this high and RBs can be had later.
    16.  A. Smith
    17. 

    This leaves Carimi, Solder or Kerrigan, IMO.  The Ingram visit was a smoke screen meant to entice Miami to take him.  BB won't touch Castonzo because of his agent.  The Corey Liuget visit has me scratching my head a little.  Would the Pats consider a 3 technique for nickel situations?  It makes sense in that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  If we were going to do that wouldn't Marvin Austin make more sense?  He's faster and stronger. 

    I think if the draft unfolds like this we look to trade down or perhaps just take Kerrigan because BB is sure to be in love with everything about the player and person.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Any chance BB takes M. Ingram at #17?  It's not really his MO to wait on a guy and take the risk that he's taken by another team.  I think this rumor is either all a big smokescreen or that he trades in front of Miami to take him at around #12.

    What are your thoughts?  
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Carter would have been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his ACL.  But I think he brings more value to a 43 team.  BB took a chance on Tyron McKenzie a couple years ago and he never fully recovered, or at least not well enough to stick.  Carter will not play in 2011 so I think he will drop into the late 2nd to a good team that can wait, but a 43 team, CHI or ATL perhaps. I'm not a Boling fan.  I like Schilling or Moffitt much better and both could be had 3rd round.  Now it seems like I'm knit picking. Anyway, saw a piece on PttD that WAS is seriously considering Mallett at 10.  They also suggested that ARI might not go QB, that they were burned by Lienart and would prefer to let other teams draft the rookies and wait for a F/A.  If to, they likely take Miller.  CIN could easily take Gabbert or he could fall to SF at 7 but doesn't get past TEN at 8.  BUF at 3 is the key to what happens in the top 10.  Newton/Dareus then what does BUF do?  Do they take Miller?  I think so, because the key to beating Brady is pressure. #1   Newton #2   Dareus #3   Miller #4   Gabbert #5   Peterson #6   Green #7   Quinn? #8   Fairley #9   Watt or Tyron Smith #10  Mallett #11  Amukamara #12  A. Smith, J. Jones or C. Jordan   This is where I get stuck because MIN has all the pieces, they just need a veteran QB to try to win it all now.  Like ARI, I think MIN holds off on QB and could look to trade down or draft a DE, like Aldon Smith or even a Cam Jordan.  If DAL takes Tyron Smith, the Pats could move up here with pick 74 for JJ Watt.  If MIN stays put they could take Julio Jones too. 13.  JJ Watt - They need a CB but getting a stud DE to play next to Suh means they don't need their corners to cover very long. 14.  J. Jones - STL can't believe their good fortune 15.  Pouncey - There are no QBs worthy this high and RBs can be had later. 16.  A. Smith 17.  This leaves Carimi, Solder or Kerrigan, IMO.  The Ingram visit was a smoke screen meant to entice Miami to take him.  BB won't touch Castonzo because of his agent.  The Corey Liuget visit has me scratching my head a little.  Would the Pats consider a 3 technique for nickel situations?  It makes sense in that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  If we were going to do that wouldn't Marvin Austin make more sense?  He's faster and stronger.  I think if the draft unfolds like this we look to trade down or perhaps just take Kerrigan because BB is sure to be in love with everything about the player and person.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Sound reasoning as always Faucet.

    My personal opinion is that Jacksonville at 16 is more enamored with Kerrigan than Aldon Smith. Assuming that to be the case, and Smith is there at 17, would you take him? OR, might you trade up to Miami and take Kerrigan.

    IF I had to decide to trade up to 15 and take Kerrigan or sit at 17 and possibly draft Smith, I'm making 2 moves up ahead of Jacksonville.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]An interview of Brooks Reed http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/derek/2011/04/12/catching-up-with-arizona-de-brooks-reed/
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    The amount of interviews, workouts, and wine and dine they've done with Reed is disappointing to me. It seems like they are using him as a smoke screen. Unless that's what they want us to think.

    My god they put poison in both glasses  O.O
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Building on my previous post.... I would like to get opinions on what DE/DL targets are Pat fits in rounds 2-4. Do we even draft a DE/DL if we wait this long given they might not get much playing time?....thoughts? I would argue the following; 1. We don't need any 2 down run stuffers. Seem to have plenty of those. 2. We need either a 3-4 DE, and/or a 4-3 DT that can penetrate and disrupt. 3. Possible guys along the DL that could be upgraded on my list would include; Deaderick, Love, Pryor, Cohen. It's almost not worth upgrading any of them, unless we look to take someone early enough to displace any 1 or many of the above. Here is my short list of DE/DT's that I think fit based on #2 above. This assumes round 2-6, and we pass all together in round 1. In order; 1. Heyward (would be a capable 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT) if he can be had at 33 or slight trade down 2. Austin (if he makes it to round 2, and passes the character test). Athletically, he is my ideal fit at 4-3 DT based on #2 above. 3. Kenrick Ellis (I think he could solve 3 challenges we have; 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT). He's somewhat of a knucklehead, but if he passed the character test, I like his size and versatility. 4. Jarvis Jenkins (He like Heyward could be a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT). His a beat weak for a guy his size, not really a pass rushing threat, but can occupy double teams, so he would be my 3rd-4th round selection for 3-4 DE. I think the above are upgrades over the guys I mentioned possibly replacing. I think the below list are on the bubble in terms of replacing anyone on our current roster and gettign any significant playing time. 5. Lawrence Guy (I like his upside). He needs to improve the way he plays the run, but he gets good penetration and can collapse the pocket. Could fill 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT positions. 6. Sione Fua (purely a 4-3 DT). Does he present an upgrade over Pyror, Cohen? That's my short list...very short, but I just don't see really anyone else in this draft out of round 1 that really upgrades the roster other than the above in any significant way on the DL. And, even some of the above guys like Austin and Ellis have character concerns. Ok, this is making me think twice about my previous comment on taking Kerrigan over Watt because I think there are some quality DE/OLB's in round 2 like Sheard, Acho, Foster, etc. that can be pass rushers. I guess in part it comes down to the drop-off discussion....Is there a larger drop-off at DE/DT in rounds 1-2 than later in the draft than at DE/OLB converts? Watt/Jordan to Heyward to Jenkins to Guy or Kerrigan to Houston to Reed to Sheard to Foster? Help me guys, i'm going loco in la cabeza.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    here to help PL.

    I think once you get pass Darius, Watt, Jordan the drop off is this, MOTOR!

    everyother 34 DE seems to have a bit of a question on motor and consistency.  I really would like a guy that goes none stop for 60 minutes which will help Cunningham, Moore and who ever else plays OLB.

    Watt can kick inside in nickle and provide an immediate upgrade.  He and Wright inside would be a nightmare and a handfull on passing downs.

    I love Kerrigan but think Watt would make a bigger impact and play more downs. 

    I believe you can get a speed rusher in the 2nd round even going into mid to late rounds

    I like Eric Moore and Dane Fletcher from what I saw last season, they could be the wildcards on all this. 

    Ayers late 1st maybe early 2nd
    Houston 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Reed 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Sheard 2nd (maybe late 1st)
    Acho 2nd
    Carter 2nd
    Foster 3rd rnd
    Moch 3rd rnd
    K.J. Wright 3rd/4th rnd
    Romeous 3rd/4th rnd
    Chinasa 4th
    Herzlich 4th/5th maybe 6th?
    Cliff Mathews 5th/6th
    Markus White 6th/7th
    Eddie Jones 6th/7th rnd
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Arizona will probably gamble here, hopping there's a rookie scale in place.  If not they will pay for the trade but that team is close and could compete with a QB who can get LF and those weapons the ball.  Ten moves as well. I don't know watt makes it to where I have him but can fall if teams move around base on those team needs. Pick Team Trade Player Posit. 1 Arz 5, 38   Blaine Gabbert - With rummors of the Skins trying to move up Arz takes no chances and lands their QB. QB 2 Den - Marcell Dareus DT 3 Buf - Patrick Peterson CB 4 Ten 8, 39 Cam Newton - Was does not have enough picks to get to Newton, they'll have to settle for a 2nd rnd QB QB 5 Car 1 A.J. Green WR 6 Hou 6,73, 105 Prince Amukamara CB 7 SF - Von Miller OLB 8 Cin 4, 109 Julio Jones WR 9 Dal - Tyron Smith OT 10 Was - Jake Locker QB 11 Cle 6 Robert Quinn DE/OLB 12 Min - Nick Fairley DT 13 SD 18, 61 Cam Jordan DE 14 StL - Mike Pouncey OG/C 15 Phi 23, 85, 104 Anthony Costanzo with NE, Det, NYG, TB, KC Ind needing OL help they move up to help keep Vick healthy OT 16 Jac - Ryan Kerrigan their DE Aaron Kampman is on his second ACL surgery in as many seasons, Kerrigan takes his place DE 17 NO 24, 72 Aldon Smith DE 18 Det 13 Jimmy Smith CB 19 NYG - Gabe Carimi OT/OG 20 TB - Adrian Clayborn DE 21 KC - Phil Taylor NT 22 Ind - Nate Solder   OT 23 Mia 15 Mark Ingram RB 24 NE 17 J.J. Watt DE 25 Sea - Ryan Mallet QB 26 Bal - Danny Watkins OG/OT 27 Atl - Kyle Rudolph TE 28 Cin 35, 101 Christian Ponder QB 29 Chi   Derek Sherrod OT 30 NYJ   Jabaal Sheard OLB 31 Pit   Ben Ijalana OT/OG 32 GB   Cameron Heyward DE           33 Min 43, 106, 139 Andy Dalton QB           35 NE 28 Brooks Reed OLB 43 NE 33 TRADED Jack 49, 114 Jack draft Colin Kaepernick     49 NE 43 Traded 2012 SF 2nd rnd & 115 (For WR Hankerson)   60 NE - James Carpenter OT 72 NE 17 Edmond Gates WR 74 NE - TRADED 2012 2nd   90 NE - John Moffitt OG/C 101 NE 28 Rob Housler TE/WR 114 NE 43 Alex Green RB 115 NE 49 TRADED 2012 3rd (Was),   213 & 224   125 NE - TRADED 2012 3rd   159 NE - Zach Hurd OT/OG 193 NE - Mark Herzlich LB 213 NE 115 Justin Rogers CB 224 NE 115 Mark LeGree FS
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    JJ Watt doesn't make it to 17, let alone 24.  If he's there at 17 we better be running to the podium.

    I'm starting to warm up to Herzlich a little later on.  We saw Jon Lester make a full recovery from a different form of cancer so maybe Herzlich will do the same and perhaps once fully recovered would return to top form which once made him the ACC Defensive Player of the Year. 

    If there is a way to land Kerrigan and Carimi in the first round that would really set up the rest of our draft nicely.  For me, getting Carimi does these things for you. 

    1)  Tell Matt Light his $7MM offer is off the table
    2)  Cut Kaczur and his $3.5MM
    3)  Use the savings to extend Mankins long term (this is the important piece).  The sides were about $1.5MM apart so we can make Mankins the highest paid OG in the NFL and still have $9MM in savings from what we offered him.
    4)  Use the $8-9MM in cap savings to land a marquis player.
    5)  Can move Vollmer to LT and we've actually improved our pass protection and running game and got a whole lot younger on the OL from 30 to 27. 

    How can we get both players without giving up too much?  Can we move down from 17 then up from 28 using what we got to move down?  If we can, we could do this.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Sound reasoning as always Faucet. My personal opinion is that Jacksonville at 16 is more enamored with Kerrigan than Aldon Smith. Assuming that to be the case, and Smith is there at 17, would you take him? OR, might you trade up to Miami and take Kerrigan. IF I had to decide to trade up to 15 and take Kerrigan or sit at 17 and possibly draft Smith, I'm making 2 moves up ahead of Jacksonville.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    JAX might actually go with Ponder if things unfold like this. 

    I would not trade up for a conversion player.  I would go plan B and take Carimi based on the value a Carimi selection would represent from my last post.

    What if we took Kerrigan at 17 then traded up to 20 from 28 to get Carimi?  Pick 74 is more than enough to do it and we could get a 6-7 rounder back.  If TB is going RB or ILB, they can still have their choice at 28.  We then trade 33 back and draft Wisniewski around 53 and still have pick 60 and 92 to address RB.  Although IND never trades, they could come up to 33 to get Dalton.  Manning isn't signed and the Colts really like Dalton.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : JJ Watt doesn't make it to 17, let alone 24.  If he's there at 17 we better be running to the podium. I'm starting to warm up to Herzlich a little later on.  We saw Jon Lester make a full recovery from a different form of cancer so maybe Herzlich will do the same and perhaps once fully recovered would return to top form which once made him the ACC Defensive Player of the Year.  If there is a way to land Kerrigan and Carimi in the first round that would really set up the rest of our draft nicely.  For me, getting Carimi does these things for you.  1)  Tell Matt Light his $7MM offer is off the table 2)  Cut Kaczur and his $3.5MM 3)  Use the savings to extend Mankins long term (this is the important piece).  The sides were about $1.5MM apart so we can make Mankins the highest paid OG in the NFL and still have $9MM in savings from what we offered him. 4)  Use the $8-9MM in cap savings to land a marquis player. 5)  Can move Vollmer to LT and we've actually improved our pass protection and running game and got a whole lot younger on the OL from 30 to 27.  How can we get both players without giving up too much?  Can we move down from 17 then up from 28 using what we got to move down?  If we can, we could do this.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Why you bursting my bubble Faucet! lol

    That's the way the dominos fell on that mock as I was doing it, was not trying to keep Watt away.

    Now I do believe probably stronger than you that DE is the biggest need.  At OT I think you can get a few guys who come in day one at RT and compete (Ijalana, Carpenter, Franklin).

    I do agree mankins is a must!  I don't think they can let him go.  IF Watt and Jordan are off the board at 17 IMO Pats move back maybe even with them on the board.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Carter would have been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his ACL.  But I think he brings more value to a 43 team.  BB took a chance on Tyron McKenzie a couple years ago and he never fully recovered, or at least not well enough to stick.  Carter will not play in 2011 so I think he will drop into the late 2nd to a good team that can wait, but a 43 team, CHI or ATL perhaps. I'm not a Boling fan.  I like Schilling or Moffitt much better and both could be had 3rd round.  Now it seems like I'm knit picking. Anyway, saw a piece on PttD that WAS is seriously considering Mallett at 10.  They also suggested that ARI might not go QB, that they were burned by Lienart and would prefer to let other teams draft the rookies and wait for a F/A.  If to, they likely take Miller.  CIN could easily take Gabbert or he could fall to SF at 7 but doesn't get past TEN at 8.  BUF at 3 is the key to what happens in the top 10.  Newton/Dareus then what does BUF do?  Do they take Miller?  I think so, because the key to beating Brady is pressure. #1   Newton #2   Dareus #3   Miller #4   Gabbert #5   Peterson #6   Green #7   Quinn? #8   Fairley #9   Watt or Tyron Smith #10  Mallett #11  Amukamara #12  A. Smith, J. Jones or C. Jordan   This is where I get stuck because MIN has all the pieces, they just need a veteran QB to try to win it all now.  Like ARI, I think MIN holds off on QB and could look to trade down or draft a DE, like Aldon Smith or even a Cam Jordan.  If DAL takes Tyron Smith, the Pats could move up here with pick 74 for JJ Watt.  If MIN stays put they could take Julio Jones too. 13.  JJ Watt - They need a CB but getting a stud DE to play next to Suh means they don't need their corners to cover very long. 14.  J. Jones - STL can't believe their good fortune 15.  Pouncey - There are no QBs worthy this high and RBs can be had later. 16.  A. Smith 17.  This leaves Carimi, Solder or Kerrigan, IMO.  The Ingram visit was a smoke screen meant to entice Miami to take him.  BB won't touch Castonzo because of his agent.  The Corey Liuget visit has me scratching my head a little.  Would the Pats consider a 3 technique for nickel situations?  It makes sense in that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  If we were going to do that wouldn't Marvin Austin make more sense?  He's faster and stronger.  I think if the draft unfolds like this we look to trade down or perhaps just take Kerrigan because BB is sure to be in love with everything about the player and person.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Not bad Faucet but I think Locker goes at 12. Minn is in love with the guy and rumors are flying that some team (Mia, Jax, or Minn) would make Locker a top 16 pick. If you have Mallett going at 10 is only forces Minn's hand further since Locker most likely won't make it out of the 1st at that point.

    This could be scary. Gabbert and Newton are def gone in the top 10 but if Mallett goes to Was and Locker goes top 16 that basically leaves Ponder, Dalton, and Kaepernick. There are rumors the Colts could go QB now with Dalton or Ponder and Sea is always an option to go QB could we be at 28 with 5-6 QB's already off the board. How much ransom can we charge at #28 for someone to grab that last QB?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Because we don’t really know if NE will keep any or all of their draft slots, I wanted to take a different approach to stacking the board.  To accomplish this I used a tiered, round by round approach to rank players based on where I think BB and Co. would be interested.  I used a 1A/1B type model, (A) being a player I expect to be targeted in the first half of the round (17 and up for arguments sake in Rd 1), (B) for the second half of the round.   There is no particular order within each tier and the players listed are based off of my Top 75 options.


    1A:

    Prince Amukamara

    Ryan Kerrigan

    Mike Pouncey

    Gabe Carimi

    Anthony Castonzo

    JJ Watt

    Cameron Jordan


    1B:

    Danny Watkins

    Muhammad Wilkerson

    Phil Taylor

    Mark Ingram

    Cameron Heyward

    Adrian Clayborn

    Kyle Rudolph


    2A:

    Randall Cobb

    Nate Solder

    Derek Sherrod

    Mike Leshoure

    Torrey Smith

    Brandon Harris

    Jabaal Sheard


     
    2B:

    Ryan Williams

    Ras-I Dowling

    Andy  Dalton

    Rodney Hudson
    Brooks Reed


    3A:

    Stefen Wisniewski

    Curtis Brown

    Kenrick Ellis

    Jarvis Jenkins

    Dontay Moch


    3B:

    Shane Vereen
    Clint Boling

    John Moffitt

    Ricky Stanzi

    James Carpenter

    Mason Foster

    KJ Wright


    4A:

    Greg Romeus

    Mark Herzlich

    Tyler Sash

    Robert Sands

    Curtis Marsh

    Chimdi Chekwa

    Marcus Gilchrist

    Greg Salas

    Delone Carter


    4B:

    Ricky Elmore

    Lawrence Guy

    Buster Skrine

    Rashad Carmichael

    Steven Schilling



    5-7:

    Thomas Keiser

    Ryan Winterswyk

    Cliff Matthews

    Ugo Chinasa

    Jeremy Beal

    Sione Fua

    Chris Neild

    Ian Williams

    David Carter

    Greg McElroy

    Aldrick Robinson

    Jeff Maehl

    Jeremy Kerley

    Dane Sanzenbacher

    Alex Green

    Mario Fannin

    Stevan Ridley

    Darren Evans

    Owen Marecic

    Tim Barnes

    Julian Vandervelde

    Mike Person

    Andrew Jackson

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Because we don’t really know if NE will keep any or all of their draft slots, I wanted to take a different approach to mocking and provide my 1A/1B type tier, (A) being a player I expect to be targeted in the first half of the round (17 and up for arguments sake in Rd 1), (B) for the second half of the round.    There is no particular order within each tier and the players listed are based off of my Top 75 options.   1A: Prince Amukamara Ryan Kerrigan Mike Pouncey Gabe Carimi Anthony Castonzo JJ Watt Cameron Jordan   1B: Danny Watkins Muhammad Wilkerson Phil Taylor Mark Ingram Cameron Heyward Adrian Clayborn Kyle Rudolph   2A: Randall Cobb Brooks Reed Nate Solder Derek Sherrod Mike Leshoure T orrey Smith Brandon Harris Jabaal Sheard   2B: Ryan Williams Ras-I Dowling Andy   Dalton Rodney Hudson   3A: Shane Vereen Stefen Wisniewski Curtis Brown Kenrick Ellis Jarvis Jenkins Dontay Moch   3B: Clint Boling John Moffitt Ricky Stanzi James Carpenter Mason Foster KJ Wright   4A: Greg Romeus Mark Herzlich Tyler Sash Robert Sands Curtis Marsh Chimdi Chekwa Marcus Gilchrist Greg Salas Delone Carter   4B: Ricky Elmore Lawrence Guy Buster Skrine Rashad Carmichael Steven Schilling 5-7: Thomas Keiser Ryan Winterswyk Cliff Matthews Ugo Chinasa Jeremy Beal Sione Fua Chris Neild Ian Williams David Carter Greg McElroy Aldrick Robinson Jeff Maehl Jeremy Kerley Dane Sanzenbacher Alex Green Mario Fannin Stevan Ridley Darren Evans Owen Marecic Tim Barnes Julian Vandervelde Mike Person Andrew Jackson  
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Ijalana?  Where do you see him?  Right now I've seen him somewhere late 1st to early second 1b/2a?  I think he's an option, he could be an option and could play OG/OT. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Ijalana?  Where do you see him?  Right now I've seen him somewhere late 1st to early second 1b/2a?  I think he's an option, he could be an option and could play OG/OT. 
    Posted by Pats7393


    I don't have him in my Top 75 options.  Personally, I don't see a 1AA kid having the same value in Rd 1 or 2 as the other kids I have listed in those ranges.  It may be a little short sighted, but that's my opinion and rationale when narrowing down the field of prospects.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I don't have him in my Top 75 options.  Personally, I don't see a 1AA kid having the same value in Rd 1 or 2 as the other kids I have listed in those ranges.  It may be a little short sighted, but that's my opinion and rationale when narrowing down the field of prospects.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    But if you look at the OL the biggest name colleges are BC for Koppen and Purdue for Light other then that you have,

    Vollmer - U. Houston (cougars)
    Connolly - SE Missouri State (redhawks)
    Mankins - Fresno State (bulldogs) 
    Neal - Cal State Bakersfield (roarunners)
    Kaczur - Toledo (rockets)

    So you can knock the school he came from but pretty much most of our OL comes from programs that hope to get into any bowl let alone be ranked

    *I added the mascots because I figured other then Fresno most people didn't even know this places had football teams
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Any chance BB takes M. Ingram at #17?  It's not really his MO to wait on a guy and take the risk that he's taken by another team.  I think this rumor is either all a big smokescreen or that he trades in front of Miami to take him at around #12. What are your thoughts?  
    Posted by Army2LT[/QUOTE]

    3 Chances: fat, slim and none. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : But if you look at the OL the biggest name colleges are BC for Koppen and Purdue for Light other then that you have, Vollmer - U. Houston (cougars) Connolly - SE Missouri State (redhawks) Mankins - Fresno State (bulldogs)  Neal - Cal State Bakersfield (roarunners) Kaczur - Toledo (rockets) So you can knock the school he came from but pretty much most of our OL comes from programs that hope to get into any bowl let alone be ranked *I added the mascots because I figured other then Fresno most people didn't even know this places had football teams
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Mankins and Light played D1, Mankins for BB's boy Pat Hill and Light in the Big 10, both of which are a higher level of competition than 1AA. 

    I'm not against them taking a 1AA kid, I just don't see in in the Rd 1 or 2. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    check out JoshMTD's youtube channel. he's uploaded a bunch of full games.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/JoshMTD
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]check out JoshMTD's youtube channel. he's uploaded a bunch of full games. http://www.youtube.com/user/JoshMTD
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    KC,
    Great link, thanks!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet/PL,
    Yeah, it would be pretty cool if after 9 months and 5000+ posts BB selected Kerrigan!  I also understand that he has no history of take a DE convert this high in the draft, so the question is, is this the kid that breaks precedent? 

    Positives:
    Ultra productive and proven against top competition.
    A lot of experience against top competition.
    Consistent track record of production.
    Loves the game.
    Big time motor.
    Good measurables.
    Good triangle times.
    Smart.
    Great character. 

    Negatives:
    Not a lot of experience operating out of a two point stance.
    Not an elite athlete.
     

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