2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    because it is such a great post, i'm going to repost here a response to mb around the question of aldon smith (and on the pats highest needs) from "laz" on another thread:

    "I'll just through this out here...  As one'a the bona fide draft-loonies 24-7/365, I've been watching more and more film on some of the 1st rders...  You guys already know that I'm very partial to Gabe Carimi...ya know what you're gettin'-Carimi IS pro-bowl elite OT safe & excellent talent... 

    But again: 3-4 DE and an excellent pass-rushing OLB=Far greater needs.  3-4 DE...This position is deep, but unspectacular in the elites.  Still, even when 3-4 DE IS deep, these guys go, and go, And go...quick.  I ain't sold on ANY of the top 10 guys...not 1 bit.  And the 2 guys I AM "sold" moreso on:  JJ Watt=Maybe...but I'm just not totally in his camp given his sum total of collegiate DE years under his belt.  Muhammad Wilkerson=Little (speck) more sold than Watt...but Temple U=Tough to jump from the opponents ya play at Temple to holding 1 end of NE's NFL 3-4 D-line. 
     
    RE: Runningback...It's VERY deep.  Doesn't have the big-bruising stud I desperately want (so many small RBs in this class)...  Yet, the guys I AM sold on, can ALL be nabbed in the late 2nd...no prob.  Demarco Murray's just a stud #1 feature back...what an RB should look like and do.  And made of glass...but, IF you're figuring no 2012?  There's potential to shelf him for a year with a great work ethic and attitude and stud RB qualities...this'll allow the 134 bones he broke in college to maybe heal up.  Moreso=Nebraska's Roy Helu and Va Tech's Darren Evans...2 guys that you CAN secure with NE's first 3rd rder.  Safe, smart, high reward, low risk choices...every bit as good as most of the top guys you'll see come off far earlier (Daniel Thomas, Mikel Leshoure, Ryan Williams).  EVERY bit as good, and imo far better fits.

    Now...this has made me go full-circle back to pass-rush OLBs...  Formerly for me, a 1st rd death sentence.  And at first, THIS draft year, for me at least, EVEN moreso.  3-4 OLBs...we ALL should know, in order to get the adequate and requisite size needed in pros, 99 outta 100 X you're drafting a collegiate 4-3 DE and hoping, praying, begging, He CAN make the shift to suddenly playing with his hand off the ground, covering passes, changing up his pass-rushing skill-set (not facing a man head on, but running at him from the OLB spot), oh-and setting the edge against the run now in space...  NOT a smart risk investment to spend a 1st rder on. 

    But, ehh- for the lack of a great 3-4 DE that I AM totally sold on, and for the depth of the pretty decent OT position in this draft class, coupled with the fact that getting even somewhat more threatening in the pass-rush area, IS a greater need than O-Tackle...I AM starting to come around on targeting a 3-4 OLB pass-rush specialist in Rd #1.  And, this brings me here=The 2 guys who POTENTIALLY Can Be worth it:

    Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith...  That's it.  Ain't movin' so far up for Von Miller (who reminds me a bit of Jerry Hughes last year...all blitz skills, far less edge sealing muscle).  And Akeem Ayers...?  Gotta say, for those that watched his filmwork and said "he's soft."  Wow...that's like the biggest understatement of all-time.  I've never seen a MORE soft OLB...probably...ever.  So: Smith and Kerrigan (might need to move up a few spots for either).  Kerrigan & Smith: BOTH VERY fast on field...and BOTH do NOT in any way, shape, OR form, shy 1 single bit from contact...at all.  Kerrigan, ya might up the ante in terms of those "intangibles" (safer in 1 sense...but little less of a potential reward).  And Aldon Smith=Pure S-T-U-D potential...but again, a little bit more of a risk than Kerrigan.  Personally though, on either, and compared to ANY other potential 1st rd 3-4 future NE OLB, IF ya gotta do it, getting either of these 2 guys are your very best bet. 


    See, RE: Aldon Smith, At first I read the EXACT same thing about his questionable "instincts" from 1 or 2 draft sources, so I simply passed him off (bad instincts and on-field awareness, No matter HOW good, great, or whatever your stats are=This is always a killer in my book).  But you're totally correct here arodrambone...TOTALLY underrated.  Watching some of Smith's gamefilm...Wow!  Couldn't believe I simply passed on this kid's explosion.  And mb~ and aro~, I take little to ZERO stock in the Combine Drills compared to what I see on film- On Gameday.  You can have ALL the Solders's and Tyron Smith's on earth...I'll take Gabe Carimi.  Likewise RE: Smith AND Kerrigan here.  You can have ALL your Von Miller's and Akeem Ayers you want...I'll take my players looking good on the field.  I was 110% PRO-Spikes in his 5.-something 40 yd time, and spoke openly again and again (and again...seein' that there 35 threads dissing his 40 time before and after NE actually took him); Same reason Why I'M 110% Mark Herzlich...He ain't a pass-rush super-stud, but Herzlich is easily the most well-rounded OLB in EVERY area when you combine them each and all as a sum.  He has no SUPER 1 ability...but he has NO faults: Pass D, Run D, Setting an edge, Instincts, Read Reaction, Football IQ (fumbles, INT), on-field/off-field behavior, Tackling technique, hitting prowess=MORE rounded than anyone...so what if he didn't put up double digit sacks?  At BC, he wasn't even asked to being the SOLB.  And this is to a lesser degree coming back to Smith and Kerrigan=VASTLY underrated in gameday instincts, gameday speed, gameday change of direction.  Kerrigan's excellent, and would work out just great imo for years to come...you'll probably get a guy who makes it to a few pro-bowls when his career's all said and done.  Smith is like gambling 1 more hand=His explosion, in recognizing and sniffing out a play, then getting there like lightning and simply delivering bone-jarring hits, imo is simply unmatched in these DE-OLB converts...somewhat bigger gamble, but instead of getting a guy who makes a few pro-bowls in his career, ya could be getting a perrenial all-pro, year in and year out...  STILL, idk...personally, I'd be glad to come away with EITHER Smith or Kerrigan-Imo the 2 best (and only) guys definately worth their weight as excellent 3-4 OLB targets in the first 2 rounds."

    appreciation to laz for this post.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Below is a list of some 7 Rd - URFA (assuming they're able to sign some) that haven't beem mentioned much on this board that I think will interest BB:

    Mike Person- OT/OG- Montana State- The next late round/URFA OL for Scar to develop.

    Mana Silva- S- Hawaii
    - Good size/speedcombo, 14 INT’s, 169 in career.

    Ricky Lumpkin- DL- Kentucky
    - Good size for the 5 (6-4 313).

    Jeff Tarpinian- LB- Iowa
    - Could be a stud special teamer, has the Ferentz connection.

    Noel Devine- LB- WVU
    -
    Tough kid, ultra productive, excelletn speed and quicks, tiny frame (5-7 179)

    Shane Bannon- FB- Yale
    - BB loves big, tough and smart, kids.

    Karl Klug- DE/OLB- Iowa
    - Tweener with a huge motor and good program pedigree.  Anothe blue collar Ferentz kid. 

    Justin Trattou- DE/OLB- Florida
    - BB loves Florida kids.

    Alex Wujciak- ILB- Maryland
    - A big thumper in the middle for their 34.

    Darrin Walls- CB- Notre Dame
    - Good combo of size, speed and COD.

    Preston Dial- TE/FB- Alabama
    - Tough kid, could provide value as FB or H-back.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Before I get to my point -I'd like to 2nd brdbreu's appreciation for Laz' scribblins' ... don't always agree with him ...but I dig his passion.

    Here's whats on my mind :
     My Pats draft mindset is back to where it started ,namely consolodating our picks this time around and get quality over quantity .

      After flirtin' with the idea of just parlayin' picks back and hedging our bets, Im now back to thinkin that may be a mistake.
    My reasoning before was the usual trappings - Brady isnt gettin any younger / we are only an impact player away from a ring ..yada yada yada .
      Fair enough reasons - but now I believe there is another , even more compelin' reason to draft 6 or 7 players ...instead of the usual dozen or so .

    THERE NOW APPEARS TO BE A CERTAINTY THAT THERE WIL BE AN EXTREMELY TRUNCATED CAMP ...OR NONE AT ALL .

      Adam Shecter has spilled the beans on the owners deliberatly fixing the just released schedule so that if the first few weeks are missed , a full season can still be played .

    NFL schedule has room to make up lost games - ESPN

    Coupled with the recent rumblings that a group of NFL players are unhappy with the way the negotiations have beeen geared toward favoring upper tier players interests  ( as well as the revelation that players have already started tapping into the players LOA fund ) ...
      I now see the owners gearing up to wait until the season starts , when the players start losing REAL money ( ie game checks ) then steppin up the negotiations and finally settlin' the matter on the cheap.

     So there will be :

    NO post draft playbooks for the rooks to start digesting.

    NO mini-camps for the rooks to get up to speed 

    NO summer training camp for the rooks to prove they belong
    .
      
    A DOZEN NEWBIES ?...No THANKS


    DRAFT A FEW BLUECHIPPERS IN ROUND 1 
    DRAFT A FEW KENDALL HUNTER - RANDAL COBB PLAYMAKER TYPES  &
    DEFER A FEW PICKS TO NEXT YEARS DRAFT

    PAY LIGHT
    PAY MANKINS

    KICK A S S

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    for those who care, you tube of quinn wearing out costanzo:
    (from another thread)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJrjwjf55c

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11UNo_1DTvY&feature=related


    My reply to THE SI article quags posted:

    for humor and when i realize they are freakin printing my posts from the past 3 mos ( kidding of course. they simply have eyes seein what i'm seein).  yeah of course everyone and even maybe most wont agree. thats what makes it fun!

    wow i was gonna say great post! but i see this is a paste from sports illustrated. i think theyve been reading my comments for th epast 3 months over on mb's thread! (smirking)


    It's time to change that philosophy.

     

    here, here!

    After all, Belichick maintains his reputation as a genius coach. But the onfield product does not live up to the coach's billing.

    exactly!

    Since then, the pass defense has consistently failed New England in key situations, from Eli Manning's final drive of Super Bowl XLI to Mark Sanchez's 127.3 rating effort against the Patriots in the divisional playoffs back in January

    oh my god, thats what im talking about!

     

    The lack of a pass rush is a huge problem. The Patriots appeared to find a shutdown corner last year in Devin McCourty. But even the best CBs can cover only so long if a quarterback has all day to pass. And in recent years, opposing quarterbacks have sat patiently in the pocket picking apart New England's defenses.

    helloo, youre stealing my words!

     

    The team has danced here in the lead-up to the draft with the likes of former Heisman Trophy-winning running back Mark Ingram. But drafting him would be a huge mistake. After all, the team ran the ball incredibly well in 2011 and productive running backs are a dime a dozen in the NFL, as New England history proves.

    An elite pass rusher will have a much bigger impact, especially for a team that already boasts an elite offense and has proven desperate for big play makers on defense in the postseason."

     

    truth is we need to start with d playmakers at de and olb.

    but through draft (mid late draft) and free agency we do need a pound it RB ideally with some breakaway

    and a tall receiver with good hands, route ability AND who can get off jams

    and cant forget our 2nd need of  g and t


    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/04/20/nfl-draft-needs/index.html#ixzz1K5VkAtTq


    thanks again quags!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Before I get to my point -I'd like to 2nd brdbreu's appreciation for Laz' scribblins' ... don't always agree with him ...but I dig his passion. Here's whats on my mind :  My Pats draft mindset is back to where it started ,namely consolodating our picks this time around and get quality over quantity .   After flirtin' with the idea of just parlayin' picks back and hedging our bets, Im now back to thinkin that may be a mistake. My reasoning before was the usual trappings - Brady isnt gettin any younger / we are only an impact player away from a ring ..yada yada yada .   Fair enough reasons - but now I believe there is another , even more compelin' reason to draft 6 or 7 players ...instead of the usual dozen or so . THERE NOW APPEARS TO BE A CERTAINTY THAT THERE WIL BE AN EXTREMELY TRUNCATED CAMP ...OR NONE AT ALL .   Adam Shecter has spilled the beans on the owners deliberatly fixing the just released schedule so that if the first few weeks are missed , a full season can still be played . NFL schedule has room to make up lost games - ESPN Coupled with the recent rumblings that a group of NFL players are unhappy with the way the negotiations have beeen geared toward favoring upper tier players interests  ( as well as the revelation that players have already started tapping into the players LOA fund ) ...   I now see the owners gearing up to wait until the season starts , when the players start losing REAL money ( ie game checks ) then steppin up the negotiations and finally settlin' the matter on the cheap.   So there will be : NO post draft playbooks for the rooks to start digesting. NO mini-camps for the rooks to get up to speed  NO summer training camp for the rooks to prove they belong .    A DOZEN NEWBIES ?...No THANKS DRAFT A FEW BLUECHIPPERS IN ROUND 1  DRAFT A FEW KENDALL HUNTER - RANDAL COBB PLAYMAKER TYPES  & DEFER A FEW PICKS TO NEXT YEARS DRAFT PAY LIGHT PAY MANKINS KICK A S S
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro


    good point captn,
    i posted a very similar point on this thread or a related one yesterday before shefters report.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Army2Lt,   East Coast Sports Draft has the Pats trading 17 and 60 for Washington's 10 and selecting Robert Quinn. Several years ago there was a need at inside lb, the Pats took Mayo at 10. How'd that worked out? Now there's a need at olb and I see a similar theme with a potential impact player, so I agree with Al Fronzak. My pick is Quinn at 10. By the way, Mike Reiss from Espn recently wrote that Mike Lombardi sees the Pats trading down with 28 and 33, (you know BB loves the upper 2nd round), partially to recoup 60.
    Posted by teegee

    I hope you're right about Quinn.  I'd love to see him play on this D.  Although he was suspended this year, I've read nothing but good things about his character. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    from wes bunting himself (on nick fairley)....
    even going far as suggesting the patriots go up and get him if he falls
    (i'm still seeing him mocked 1 to oblivion-i think he goes 8-12)

    and that he IS THE CLOSEST THING TO SEYMOUR SINCE SEYMOUR
    and on the pats he'd be an ALL PRO.

    he can mature with the right leadership (locker room):

    As I’ve said before and will say again, I think Auburn DT Nick Fairley is the most talented defensive lineman in this year’s draft. It’s rare to find a 6-4, 295-pound kid with the movement skills that he possesses. He possesses natural pass-rushing skills, is powerful on contact, sudden when asked to disengage and closes extremely well for his size. Overall, I think from a talent perspective he has All-Pro type ability.

    Fairley is an elite talent.

    Therefore, why is he falling?

    Here are some quotes I have received from NFL talent evaluators on Fairley…

    “He still acts like a JUCO kid.”

    “He’s immature.”

    “He acts likes a rapper.”

    “He draws attention to himself.”

    “Questionable work ethic and didn’t compete hard in all the drills at the Combine.”

    Get the point?

    Overall, he’s a 23-year-old kid who still has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. But, in all honesty, what 23-year-old doesn’t? So often we look at where the maturity level of a kid like Fairley is now only, and automatically assume he’s never going to change. However, what if you put him in an environment with structure? Leadership? Veteran mentors? I’m not saying that Fairley hasn’t had that during his upbringing or time at Auburn, but when I watch this guy on tape I just don’t buy into the fact he doesn’t have a passion for the game.

    Sure, his motor runs both hot and cold at times -- like plenty of NFL defensive linemen -- but when a play is needed to be made, that motor is on high and he makes it.

    Therefore, teams that have questions about the leadership in their locker room and don’t have a real respected veteran voice along the defensive line should pass on Fairley as I think it’s best for both sides.

    However, if this guy begins to slide at all on draft day, a team like the Patriots, who have had success with outcast players buying into the system and consistently get the most out of talented defensive linemen, would be smart to potentially make a run at Fairley and use some of those draft picks to go up and get him.

    Honestly, from a physical/athletic standpoint, he might be the closest thing to Richard Seymour since Richard Seymour and I can see Fairley not only maturing as a person under the leadership in place in New England but also developing into one of the league's best defensive linemen during his time there as well.

    The case of Nick Fairley will be an interesting one to watch come draft weekend and ultimately where he ends up will end up playing a major role on just how good he becomes at the next level.




     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    in the watt vs jordan discussion, none of you ever chimed in on the analysis i posted from bunting on each player and that he has jordan as 10th best player and watt as 27 in the draft

    jordan as 3rd best de after quinn 1; aldon smith 2;
    and watt as 7th after bowers, clayborn and heyward (4,5,6)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    BRB...is was on phone call with Path to the draft people as they were discussing his being on the program...Was on Wed nights show... Was primarily the knocks on M Ingram....
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***



    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    BRB...is was on phone call with Path to the draft people as they were discussing his being on the program...Was on Wed nights show... Was primarily the knocks on M Ingram....
    Posted by fishers5




    thank you. i just caught that last night (overnight).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Of the DT's that project as better fits in a 43, which do you think have the best chance of ending up in Foxboro? By my estimation below are the 4 that come to mind. Corey Liuget- Illinois (6-2 298) Stephen Paea- Oregon State (6-1 303) Marvin Austin- UNC (6-2 309) Drake Nevis- LSU (6-1 294) Liuget can probably add a few more pounds without issue, and looks like a legit (pun intended) dual purpose threat that could impact vs. the run and pass and has some schematic versatility.  With that being said, he doesn't have ideal length/height (6021 at the combine), he also looks to be one of those late risers that may require a top 15-20 pick to acquire.  Paea is one of the stronger players in the draft, is stout vs. the run but again is lacking in the height dept (6012 at the combine). Austin has probably the best combo of size/speed/quicks/athleticism (6015 at UNC Pro Day), but also comes with the most baggage.  He too has seen a rise to his stock, or atleast that's the mainstream belief so may also require a 1st rounder to acquire. Nevis is another talented SEC kid, but looks to be purely a 43 DT and was only 6005 at the combine, so he's really not tall/long enough. Taking all factors into account, I'd lean towards Liuget and Paea with Paea being the most likely to end up in Foxboro due to his assumed draft round as he's projected in Rd 2.  However, quote me now , Liuget could be that "outside the box" player that BB takes that leaves people saying, who?.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    You have to think Luiget is an option, not only will he upgrade sub interior pass rush he's had experience playing DE and NT.  Guy is short of 6'3" but is reporterly very strong.  Not saying he's the answer at 34 DE but he's an intreguing kid to me.

    I don't like Austin at all, when coaches and players who usually say nothing but good things about all draftees except for Austin.  They say he's a me first, selfish guy.  Not thank you.

    Pea I like, blue collar type player who plays for 60 minutes.  He'll find himself a spot IMO.  With his strength he might even be an option at NT for some plays.

    Nevis do not know much about to be honest.

    Out of the four, I'm with you MB Luiget can be a nice little toy for BB to use all over the place.  I've seen him go as high as 12 to Min.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : You have to think Luiget is an option, not only will he upgrade sub interior pass rush he's had experience playing DE and NT.  Guy is short of 6'3" but is reporterly very strong.  Not saying he's the answer at 34 DE but he's an intreguing kid to me. I don't like Austin at all, when coaches and players who usually say nothing but good things about all draftees except for Austin.  They say he's a me first, selfish guy.  Not thank you. Pea I like, blue collar type player who plays for 60 minutes.  He'll find himself a spot IMO.  With his strength he might even be an option at NT for some plays. Nevis do not know much about to be honest. Out of the four, I'm with you MB Luiget can be a nice little toy for BB to use all over the place.  I've seen him go as high as 12 to Min.
    Posted by Pats7393


    I like Liuget as well. He's a tad under the bar for 3-4 DE, but given what I have seen, I would try our luck wiht him there and at 4-3 DT at the right spot.

    Problem is I think he is right in the middle of the 1st round possibly, or slightly below. I've seen him mocked anywhere from 11-32. I think I woudl only consider him if Watt, Kerrigan are gone, and we are not drafting Carimi at 17 if he is still on the board. Again, like with Watt, I would like to see what people think in temrs of how he stacks up/compares to Watt in terms of how we can use him and value relative to Watt and where Watt mgiht be taken.

    I find it interesting that Mayock came out and said Watt was the best 5 tech he has seen, yet, Watt is rated as the 27th best player?...If that is the case, you go to think he should talked about in the top 15.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    from wes bunting himself (on nick fairley).... even going far as suggesting the patriots go up and get him if he falls (i'm still seeing him mocked 1 to oblivion-i think he goes 8-12) and that he IS THE CLOSEST THING TO SEYMOUR SINCE SEYMOUR and on the pats he'd be an ALL PRO. he can mature with the right leadership (locker room): As I’ve said before and will say again, I think Auburn DT Nick Fairley is the most talented defensive lineman in this year’s draft. It’s rare to find a 6-4, 295-pound kid with the movement skills that he possesses. He possesses natural pass-rushing skills, is powerful on contact, sudden when asked to disengage and closes extremely well for his size. Overall, I think from a talent perspective he has All-Pro type ability. Fairley is an elite talent. Therefore, why is he falling? Here are some quotes I have received from NFL talent evaluators on Fairley… “He still acts like a JUCO kid.” “He’s immature.” “He acts likes a rapper.” “He draws attention to himself.” “Questionable work ethic and didn’t compete hard in all the drills at the Combine.” Get the point? Overall, he’s a 23-year-old kid who still has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. But, in all honesty, what 23-year-old doesn’t? So often we look at where the maturity level of a kid like Fairley is now only, and automatically assume he’s never going to change. However, what if you put him in an environment with structure? Leadership? Veteran mentors? I’m not saying that Fairley hasn’t had that during his upbringing or time at Auburn, but when I watch this guy on tape I just don’t buy into the fact he doesn’t have a passion for the game. Sure, his motor runs both hot and cold at times -- like plenty of NFL defensive linemen -- but when a play is needed to be made, that motor is on high and he makes it. Therefore, teams that have questions about the leadership in their locker room and don’t have a real respected veteran voice along the defensive line should pass on Fairley as I think it’s best for both sides. However, if this guy begins to slide at all on draft day, a team like the Patriots, who have had success with outcast players buying into the system and consistently get the most out of talented defensive linemen, would be smart to potentially make a run at Fairley and use some of those draft picks to go up and get him. Honestly, from a physical/athletic standpoint, he might be the closest thing to Richard Seymour since Richard Seymour and I can see Fairley not only maturing as a person under the leadership in place in New England but also developing into one of the league's best defensive linemen during his time there as well. The case of Nick Fairley will be an interesting one to watch come draft weekend and ultimately where he ends up will end up playing a major role on just how good he becomes at the next level.
    Posted by brdbreu


    There is no denying his physical talent, but in all honesty, given his immaturity, and dirty play on the field, I'm not sure I would take this kid if he slipped down. I don't know if his immaturity can be coached up or mentored, but if it could, and he wouldn't pose a problem on or off the field, yes, I like the way he plays. Lots of big if's here however. I think coaching and locker room mentoring are a bit overstated. Not saying they can't help, but you have to have a kid who is willing to change. His latest crap at the combine about missing flights, meetings, etc. does not bode well for someone trying to improve his draft stock and persona.

    If you give me the choice between taking a high character, high motor, kid like Kerrigan at 16/17 or possibly trading up a few spots to grab a great physical talent but big question mark around character and effort, it's actually a quite easy decision for me...take Kerrigan. If we are hung up on drafting a DE, I would rather put my money on Heyward or Wilkerson who are clean and can be had later. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    from wes bunting himself (on nick fairley).... even going far as suggesting the patriots go up and get him if he falls (i'm still seeing him mocked 1 to oblivion-i think he goes 8-12) and that he IS THE CLOSEST THING TO SEYMOUR SINCE SEYMOUR and on the pats he'd be an ALL PRO. he can mature with the right leadership (locker room): As I’ve said before and will say again, I think Auburn DT Nick Fairley is the most talented defensive lineman in this year’s draft. It’s rare to find a 6-4, 295-pound kid with the movement skills that he possesses. He possesses natural pass-rushing skills, is powerful on contact, sudden when asked to disengage and closes extremely well for his size. Overall, I think from a talent perspective he has All-Pro type ability. Fairley is an elite talent. Therefore, why is he falling? Here are some quotes I have received from NFL talent evaluators on Fairley… “He still acts like a JUCO kid.” “He’s immature.” “He acts likes a rapper.” “He draws attention to himself.” “Questionable work ethic and didn’t compete hard in all the drills at the Combine.” Get the point? Overall, he’s a 23-year-old kid who still has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. But, in all honesty, what 23-year-old doesn’t? So often we look at where the maturity level of a kid like Fairley is now only, and automatically assume he’s never going to change. However, what if you put him in an environment with structure? Leadership? Veteran mentors? I’m not saying that Fairley hasn’t had that during his upbringing or time at Auburn, but when I watch this guy on tape I just don’t buy into the fact he doesn’t have a passion for the game. Sure, his motor runs both hot and cold at times -- like plenty of NFL defensive linemen -- but when a play is needed to be made, that motor is on high and he makes it. Therefore, teams that have questions about the leadership in their locker room and don’t have a real respected veteran voice along the defensive line should pass on Fairley as I think it’s best for both sides. However, if this guy begins to slide at all on draft day, a team like the Patriots, who have had success with outcast players buying into the system and consistently get the most out of talented defensive linemen, would be smart to potentially make a run at Fairley and use some of those draft picks to go up and get him. Honestly, from a physical/athletic standpoint, he might be the closest thing to Richard Seymour since Richard Seymour and I can see Fairley not only maturing as a person under the leadership in place in New England but also developing into one of the league's best defensive linemen during his time there as well. The case of Nick Fairley will be an interesting one to watch come draft weekend and ultimately where he ends up will end up playing a major role on just how good he becomes at the next level.
    Posted by brdbreu



    Isnt he slipping way down boards more becasue teams think he might need microfracture surgery on his knee than his attitude? (if there is the chance of microfracture i say avoid!)
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Isnt he slipping way down boards more becasue teams think he might need microfracture surgery on his knee than his attitude? (if there is the chance of microfracture i say avoid!)
    Posted by Quagmire3


    Quag,
    I believe Bowers is the kid slipping due to medical red flags.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
       With this being my first post, I would like to thank all the regular posters for the enjoyment you've brought reading this thread since September. Great job by Mb,Faucetman, etc. my hat is off to all of you. Now on to the draft, the one needy position in my opinion is OL. At pick #17 BB will select Carimi, then with picks #28 and 33 the wheeling and dealing begins!! The Pats will come away with 4 2nd this year as well as 2012 extra picks. My name is Mike, and I'm a draftnik!
    Posted by 4Sportsman

    Mike,

    Nice to meet you.  Thanks.  Wow, I turn my back on this thread for one day and fall 6 pages behind.  Carimi at 17 would be a solid pick and represent great value.  He steps in at RT from Day 1 moving Vollmer to LT.  Light as a F/A wouldn't be offered a contract when the lock out ends, he just walks and we get a 2012 3rd round comp pick for him.  We then cut Kaczur or perhaps try to kick him inside.  If cut, we have saved $10MM from this one draft pick alone (cost avoidance of keeping Light, cutting Kaczur).  The Pats can then be active in a key F/A.

    I do believe the Pats will make just one selection in the first round.  They will end up with 4 selections in the 2nd round.  I don't believe they make a pick at 17, I think it is moved back to the 20s.  For who, it's anyone's guess.  All of this wheeling and dealing will net them 1 first, 4 seconds, 2 thirds and at least an extra 2nd and 3rd next year, maybe even a first next year.  They will also find a way to get a 7th this year.

    I have a strong feeling that if Watt or Jordan are there at 17, they might just take one of them.  If both are gone and Kerrigan is there, they might just take him.  If all three are gone, they trade back and look to take an OT before the top 5 are gone.  I could even see them trading back 17 multiple times.  Sherrod would also be of interest because he is more of a LT than a RT.  Solder is a bit of a project but I could see BB loving his size/speed combo and feeling the Pats do the best job of coaching up the OL.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I like Liuget as well. He's a tad under the bar for 3-4 DE, but given what I have seen, I would try our luck wiht him there and at 4-3 DT at the right spot. Problem is I think he is right in the middle of the 1st round possibly, or slightly below. I've seen him mocked anywhere from 11-32. I think I woudl only consider him if Watt, Kerrigan are gone, and we are not drafting Carimi at 17 if he is still on the board. Again, like with Watt, I would like to see what people think in temrs of how he stacks up/compares to Watt in terms of how we can use him and value relative to Watt and where Watt mgiht be taken. I find it interesting that Mayock came out and said Watt was the best 5 tech he has seen, yet, Watt is rated as the 27th best player?...If that is the case, you go to think he should talked about in the top 15.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    I'm still catching up but stopped on this post.  Lifer, did you see the Butch Davis interview yesterday on PttD?  He had nothing but praise for Marvin Austin.  In fact he described a 30 min press conference he gave at UNC's Pro Day in front of all 32 teams where he talked about what good kids Austin, Quinn and Little were.  He said they each made a mistake which cost them the season but they weren't involved in criminal activities, it was a NCAA rules violation and that each made a dumb choice and have accepted responsibility for their mistakes.  Each player has been working hard to stay in shape and prepare themselves for their pro career and that he gives all three his strong recommendation.

    That said, I am not sold that the Pats feel DL is a top need like many on here.  I agree with the arguments, I just don't think BB does.  But if we consider which positions/players we could draft that can step in and start or contribute day ONE I think outside of Watt/Jordan there isn't a DL type there when operating in a base 34.  If we are looking for a nickel 43 DT for passing situations, I think a slipping Fairley, a Liuget or Austin could come in day 1 and give us some interior speed and pressure up the middle.  I would like Fairley at 17 or either Austin or Liuget in that 28 - 33 range.  We have problems getting off the field on 3rd down and adding an interior DT type that is explosive would seem valuable in addressing that.

    Austin would have been a top 15 pick if not for the incident with the agent. He was the most dominant player in his all star game.  He's been doing everything right this post season.  He has something to prove and I believe who ever gets him will get a player possessed who will be extremely disruptive.  If BB becomes comfortable with the kid, look at Austin's measurables compared to the other top 43 DT talent?

    Dareus 6-3, 319, 4.93, 24 reps
    Fairley 6-4, 291, 4.84, N/A reps
    Liuget 6-2, 298, 4.97 31 reps
    Wilkerson 6-4, 315, 4.96, 27 reps
    Paea 6-1, 303, 4.98, 49 reps
    Austin 6-2, 309, 4.84, 38 reps

    Austin's 4.84 ties Fairley as the best in this group and he's 18 lbs heavier!!  His 38 reps were easily the best except for super human Paea who has some injury concerns.  I'll make this prediction, if Austin keeps his head on straight he could end up being the best pro in this group. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    FYI article in this morning's San Jose Mercury News saying OAK made a mistake in trading for Seymour, they'd be better off with this #17.  Yes, he's helped the defense make baby steps, but not that appreciable, better off with the pick.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Quag, I believe Bowers is the kid slipping due to medical red flags.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    your right, thanks.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    To get off the field on third down we have to upgrade our nickel defense.  This is the alignment we were in against the first Jet's game last year, a week 2 loss.

    DL: Mike Wright
    DL: Vince Wilfork
    DL: Myron Pryor
    DL: Tully Banta-Cain
    LB: Jerod Mayo
    LB: Gary Guyton
    CB: Devin McCourty
    CB: Darius Butler
    CB: Jonathan Wilhite
    S: Patrick Chung
    S: Brandon Meriweather

    The Guyton/Mayo tandem is one of the fastest in football in these situations.  Butler was certainly a weak link so getting Bodden back will help that. 

    The Pats employ a number of nickel sets including sometimes, 1 DL, 5 LBs and 5 DB.  Improving speed at LB in those sets and getting another playmaker in the secondary would seem logical to do.  But going back to our base nickel, 4-2-5 set and looking at draft options and returning players we could do this.

    DL: Mike Wright
    DL: Ty Warren replaces Vince Wilfork
    DL: (28) Marvin Austin replaces Myron Pryor
    DL: (17) Ryan Kerrigan replaces Tully Banta-Cain
    LB: Jerod Mayo
    LB: (60) Bruce Carter potentially replaces Gary Guyton
    CB: Devin McCourty
    CB: Leigh Bodden replaces Darius Butler
    CB: Kyle Arrington replaces Jonathan Wilhite
    S: Patrick Chung
    S: Brandon Meriweather

    The addition of Kerrigan and Austin and getting Bodden and Warren back would go a long way to improving the speed and rush of our base nickel.  Bruce Carter is a play maker and although slower than Guyton his instincts are far better.  Carter has been cleared to work out before the draft and Butch Davis said yesterday that no team has ruled him out for scheme reasons. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    FYI article in this morning's San Jose Mercury News saying OAK made a mistake in trading for Seymour, they'd be better off with this #17.  Yes, he's helped the defense make baby steps, but not that appreciable, better off with the pick.
    Posted by Critter23


    Critter, I cant find it do you have a link? Thanks.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Put together a complete two round mock, think I don't have too many "WHAT THE $*@( WAS HE THINKING!" picks

    and I'll throw this out there, how much better can Carolina get this year without Gabbert or Newton?  Not much, so they were a couple of game worst than Den.  Point is, Andrew Luck a Panther in 2012.  I know that's a big gamble but for Luck, I'll take those odds!

    PickTeamTradePlayerPosit.
    1Car-A.J. GreenWR
    2Den-Marcell DareusDT
    3Buf-Patrick PetersonCB
    4Cin-Julio JonesWR
    5Arz-Blaine GabbertQB
    6Ten6Cam NewtonQB
    7SF-Von MillerOLB
    8Cle8, 77Robert QuinnDE
    9Det9Prince AmukamaraCB
    10Was-Jake LockerQB
    11StL11, 138Nick FairleyDT
    12Min-Corey LiugetDT
    13Dal13, 215Tyron SmithOT
    14Hou14, 78Phil TaylorNT
    15SD15J.J. WattDE
    16Jac-Cameron JordanDE
    17Phi17Anthony CastonzoOT
    18Mia18, 82Mike PounceyC/OG
    19NYG-Nate SolderOT
    20TB-Da'quan BowersDE
    21KC-Gabe CarimiOT
    22Ind-Derek SherrodOT
    23NE23, 85, 149Ryan KerriganOLB
    24NO-Aldon SmithDE
    25Sea-Adrian ClaybornDE
    26Bal-Jimmy SmithCB
    27NYJ27Cameron HeywardDE
    28Cin28Christian PonderQB
    29Chi-Danny WatkinsOT/OG
    30Atl30, 126, 194Justin HoustonDE
    31Pit-Ben IjalanaOG/OT
    32GB-Mark IngramRB
         
    2nd Round   
    33SD 33, 125Torrey SmithWR
    34Buf-Jabaal SheardOLB/DE
    35NE35, 101, 167Muhammad WilkersonDE
    36Den-Kyle RudolphTE
    37Cle-Akeem AyersOLB
    38Arz-Brooks ReedOLB
    39Hou39Ras-I-DowlingCB
    40Dal-Marcus CannonOT
    41Was-Mikel LeShoureRB
    42Ten42, 138Martez WilsonILB
    43Min-Andy DaltonQB
    44Det-Rodney HudsonOG/C
    45SF-Randall CobbWR
    46TB46Bruce CarterOLB
    47StL-Leonard HankersonWR
    48Oak-Chimdi ChekwaCB
    49Jac-Aaron WilliamsS
    50NE50, 61James CarpenterOT
    51Den51, 116Brandon HarrisCB
    52NYG-Stephen PaeaDT
    53Ind-Stefen WisniewskiOG/C
    54Chi54Jon BaldwinWR
    55KC-Kendrick EllisNT
    56NO-Marvin AustinDT
    57Sea-Colin KaepernickQB
    58Bal-Rahim MooreFS
    59Atl-Luke StockerTE
    60Jac(NE 2012 2nd, #80)Ryan MalletQB
    61NE50, 61Edmond GatesWR
    62Phi62, 127, 160Davon HouseCB
    63Pit-Brandon BurtonCB
    64GB-Sam AchoOLB
         
    74WASTraded 2012 2nd 
    80NE-Jordan TodmanRB
    85NE-John MoffittOG/C
    92SFfor 108 and 115
    101NE Marcus GilbertOT/OG
    108PhiTraded 2012 3rd
    115NE-Lawrence GuyDE
    149NE-Mark HerzlichOLB
    159OakTraded 2012 4th
    167NE-Justin RogersCB
    193NE-Mark LeGreeFS
    2012 Picks   
    2 - 2nd Rnd (Jac, Was)  
    1 - 3rd Rnd (Phi)  
    1 - 4th Rnd (Oak)  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    put up new video

    Under-Armor Under-Wear Wars Cameron Jordan vs JJ Watt




    http://www.youtube.com/user/patriotsfootballplc



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Peter Kings mock has JJ Watt falling into the 2nd round?
     
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