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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    I've been lurking these forums for a solid two years and figured I'd finally join. I found this on another website. Apparently in Belichick's interview with CSN, they videographer displayed a large section of the Pat's draft board, including names and grades. Figured this would help posters figure out what players could be targeted tomorrow. QB - you couldn't see the top of the list, but I assume it was Gabbert. After that: Locker - 8.something (not on screen) Newton - 7.990 Mallett - 7.712 Dalton - 7.185 Ponder - 6.709 Enderle - 5.936 McElroy - 5.571 Devlin - 5.578 OG Watkins - can't see the score Boling - 7.645 Moffit - 6.856 Cannon - 6.762 Carpenter - 6.546 Franklin - 6.227 Jackson - 6.012 Buren - 5.815 Schlauderaf - 5.627 Rackley - 5.549 Arkin - 5.531 Hurd - 5.039 Schilling - 5.013 C Pouncey - 8.132 Hudson - 7.642 Wisnewski - 6.337 O'Dowd - 5.894 Beeler - 5.367 Pugh - 5.367 McMahon - 5.633 (higher than previous 2) Kowolski - 5.548 OT Solder - 8.481 T Smith - 8.344 Carimi - 8.281 Costonzo - 8.067 Ijalana - 7.811 Sherrod - 7.614 Love - 6.088 Ziemba - 5.991 Hairston - 5.654 Pinkston - 5.433 Reid - 5.538 DE Dareus - 8.652 Quinn - 8.519 Jordan - 8.494 Clayborn - 8.301 Watt - 8.243 Wilkerson - 8.176 Heyward - 7.937 Bailey - 6.978 Sheard - 6.193 Reed - 6.134 Matthews - 5.542 Allen - 5.531 McPhee - 5.038 Klug - 4.227 NT Taylor - 7.814 Austin - 6.859 Jenkins - 5.832 Neild - 5.448 DT (the scores were off the screen, so I just have the order) Fairley - Aub Liuget - UIl Siliga - Utah Ballard - Iowa Casey - USC Ajiboye - SCar Nevis - LSU Guy - AzSt Larimore - SCar McClaine - SFla Parker - Richmond Taylor - Okla Thornton - Ark St WR Green - 8.782 Jones - 8.419 T Smith - 7.978 Cobb - 7.936 V Brown - 6.077 (SDSt) Little - 6.032 Doss - 6.015 Paul - 5.938 Young - 5.815 Toliver - 5.772 Hankerson - 5.732 Salas - 5.517 TE - couldn't see the top of the board, assume it's Randolph Stocker - 7.327 Kendricks - 6.859 Williams - 6.056 Dial - 5.906 Gantt - 5.618 Saunders - 5.589 Green - 5.390 Housler - 5.314 Jordan Cameron - 5.131 FB Marecic - couldn't see his score Hughes - 5.537 Cooper - 5.315 Havili - 5.216 Chapas - 5.082 Houston - 5.045 Morse - 4.876 Sims - 4.317 Sherman - 4.236 The board didn't display the LB's, DB's, or RB's unfortunately.  Based on these numbers, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator that the Pats may be looking at either Smith or Cobb as their first pick in the second (assuming it isn't traded), along with Boling, Hudson, or any of the LB's or RB's whose draft grades we couldn't see later on in the second.
    Posted by JMUFranco
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Wow! Nice work. I can't believe the Pats would allow the boards in the back ground. So far, it looks legit.
    Posted by GameChanger


    Wow this is really good stuff. IF its accurate it tells us a couple things;

    1) Both Cam Jordan and Robert Quinn graded out slightly higher than Nate Solder, so BB must have thrown the BPA theory out the window.

    2) Da'Quan Bowers is NOT on the Pats board. (unless I missed him)

    I think Solder is a good solid pick but I was dissappointed we didnt get Jordan. However I learned in 2001 to always trust BB when he irritated me (and probably a bunch of you) when he Took a big guy named Richard Seymour instead of David Terrell or Koren Robinson, WR's that Drew Bledsoe needed! In BB I trust, and bring on the 2nd round!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Spikes is a good 2 down player but is he an impact player like Mayo? Cunningham is a solid OLB but is he an impact OLB? Gronk, however, is an impact TE so that has worked out. Most of the time in the 2nd you find solid players that improve your team but are not IMPACT playmakers and that's what this front 7 is missing. The last 3 playoff games we've had 0 sacks on QB's with a handful of pressures between the last 3 games. Solid players are great when you have a Willie Mac, Seymour, or Bruschi on the team but when you don't have an impact player they are just that solid players
    Posted by PatsEng


    We knew that about Spike when we got him, we are hoping he can develop into a 3 down guy.
    Cunningham, how many rookies are impact players?  even high picks.  not many.  Plus BB likes guys that dont have to come off the field, he is one of them.  His bookend to me is Sheard, I can see him coming off the board to us next, after we trade back a few spots. 
    Gronk, well a nice beast.
    As far as impact guys go, BB seems to like a team D, not one dominant player.  Solid, good allaround, quality on all 3 downs types. How many people here want Hughes last year?  Many and look what he did.  BB has commented that pass rush is important, he will address it how he sees fit.  I trust him on that.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : We knew that about Spike when we got him, we are hoping he can develop into a 3 down guy. Cunningham, how many rookies are impact players?  even high picks.  not many.  Plus BB likes guys that dont have to come off the field, he is one of them.  His bookend to me is Sheard, I can see him coming off the board to us next, after we trade back a few spots.  Gronk, well a nice beast. As far as impact guys go, BB seems to like a team D, not one dominant player.  Solid, good allaround, quality on all 3 downs types. How many people here want Hughes last year?  Many and look what he did.  BB has commented that pass rush is important, he will address it how he sees fit.  I trust him on that.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    You are right not many are impact players but I don't see Cunningham as an impact type of player. He is the type of player you put on the field and never have to worry about him. His is a good all around player that gives him great value and I'm glad we have him but we still need that impact pass rusher to book end and another DL to take up blockers to open those lanes.

    When you look at the Pats before and after the 07 season you see post 07 a D without a player who can make plays in the backfield. No one was pushing the line and the LB core looked lost as the still do. Pre 07 though you had players like Vrable, Seymour, Bruschi, Willie Mac. These were impact players who could get into the backfield and disrupt game plans. That's how we won the championships and that's what we have to get back to. Once you are out of the 1st the odds of finding a true impact rusher drop drastically (as has been shown that BB has never found an impact rusher out of the 1st round). You are more opt to find good all around players or speciality rushers who never seem to adjust to the pro's. Looking at FA I still can't find an impact rusher so you'll have to forgive me if I'd rather have a dominant front 7 again like we had from 01-06 then having the best O in the league again like from 07-now
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    As someone said here, Parcells talked about Solder on his show the other night as a solid O Line choice.  At the time I was surprised he mentioned him over C and C...but I trust his and BB's opinions.  BB said key to this draft was front 7 choices, so I guess we have to be patient and wait for tomorrow.  Lots of ammunition to spend.
    Posted by Critter23


    smokescreen
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    My first thoughts on Day #2...Cincinnati needs a QB..with Buffalo picking ahead of them...Cincinnati should should move up to #33..two spots.. and exchange their 2012 #1 pick with the 2012 #1 pick we got from New Orleans...then we pick at #35....Cincinnati gets Dalton, for sure, and we probably get a higher #1 next year...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    Facing the Pats draft is always anxiety producing for me. Although I know ahead of time BB will not choose the "shiny hood ornaments" that the analysts are promoting, I still feel some emptiness when we don't get the recognizable players of need (Cam Jordan etc) or continually trade back into the draft. However, upon reflection BB is doing the right thing by trading back for more picks to maintain the long term competiveness of the team. It is like an ANNUITY that keeps paying off each year. What it means is we are always competitive and have ammunition necessary to select a QB when it is time to select Brady's replacement. I guess I am ready to accept that winning the Super Bowl every year is not a realistic goal and that winning once in a while as we maintain long term competitiveness is better strategy.

    For me as a fan it means making my own mental adjustments: becoming more humble and detached as we seek to play well all the time versus taking big risks (like Carolina taking Newton and the Titans taking Locker) and trying to hit home runs with high impact players. 
     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : No question. OL is a major issue for the Pats especially if Light, Mankins and Kacsur all leave on top of Neal's retirement. I would have liked Solder or either of the C's as wellfor an area of huge need. But this is just as important: 2007 Super Bowl Loss    3 sacks 2010 Playoff Loss           0 sacks 2011 Playoff Loss           0 sacks The ability to get to the passer is just as big of an issue for this team, which is why people are upset that it was not addressed in the first round with a "potential" playmaker. I'm sure that BB has a definite plan for the second round; I just hope he can pull it off if he moves from 33 and "his guy" is still there.
    Posted by sml1210


    Key word is potential.

    I still have EVERY one of my pass rushers from my Patriot specific big board still available to the Patriots except Ryan Kerrigan. I never really thought they would take him however.


    So the point is the Patriots have a board full of Pass rusher options that have just as much "potential" and more importantly fit for the Patriots with now less risk.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    I totally agree that solder is a nice pick ,,It was a NEED and hes quality...Now BB has to forget the bend not break concept and use at least a coupld of picks to address the pass rush...TBC and NINK just arent it...Maybe the like fletcher, but there are a couple of guys that can provide the heat... OLB;s,,RB and interior lineman are necessary... Not a Bowers fan...but will provide pressure and not cost alot... another fun day ahead.
    Posted by fishers5


    Just for the record, which I know is not saying too much considering the Pats but, Nink had the 2nd highest pass rusher rating for the Patriots team last year wihich includes sacks, pressures, QB hits, etc.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    With ONLY 20 Patriot specific prospects off our list in the top 32(the Patriots grabbing one of them), the Patriots have a board full of options available to them for day two of the 2011 NFL Draft.

     

    Here is the updated lists!

     

     

    DE

    1. * Cameron Jordan (1)
    2. JJ Watt (1)
    3. Corey Liuget (1-2)
    4. Cameron Heyward + (2)
    5. Muhammad Wilkerson (1-2)
    6. Allen Bailey (2-3)
    7. * Jarvis Jenkins (3)
    8. Kenrick Ellis ^ (3-4)
    9. Ricky Lumpkin (7-UDFA)
    10. Corbin Bryant (7-UDFA)

     

    POTENTIAL ELEPHANTS

    1. Adrian Clayborn (1-2)
    2. * Allen Baily (2-3)
    3. * Cameron Jordan (1)

     

    SUB INSIDE PASS RUSHER

    1. * Allen Baily (2-3)
    2. * Terrell McClain (4-5)

     

    OT

    1. * Anthony Castonzo $ (1)
    2. Nate Solder (1) PATRIOTS
    3. * Gabe Carimi + (1)
    4. Marcus Gilbert (3-4)
    5. James Brewer (3-4)
    6. Chris Hairston (5-6)
    7. Jah Reid (5-6)
    8. Will Yeatman (7-UDFA)

    OT/OG

    1. * Danny Watkins $ (1-2)
    2. * James Carpenter (3)
    3. * Ben Ijalana (2)
    4. * Orlando Franklin ^ (2-3)
    5. Lee Ziemba (4-5)

     

     OG

    1. * Clint Boling (2-3)
    2. * Will Rackley (4)
    3. Andrew Jackson (5-6)
    4. Mike Person (7-UDFA)

     

    OG/C

    1. * Mike Pouncey $ (1-2)
    2. Rodney Hudson (2-3)
    3. Stefen Wisniewski (2-3)
    4. John Moffit (4)
    5. Tim Barnes (4)
    6. * Brandon Fusco (5)

     

    WR

    1. * Randall Cobb (2-3)
    2. Greg Little ^ (2-3)
    3. * Greg Salas (3-4)
    4. * Austin Pettis (3-4) 
    5. Tandon Doss + (3-4)
    6. Dane Sanzenbacher (5-6)
    7. * Jeremy Kerley (5)
    8. * Cecil Shorts (5-6)
    9. Jeff Maehl (6-7)
    10. Fred Rouse (UDFA)

     

     

    RB

    1. Mark Ingram (1)
    2. Ryan Williams ^ (2)
    3. * Daniel Thomas (3)
    4. * Kendall Hunter + (2-3)
    5. Jordan Todman (3)
    6. Shane Vereen (3)
    7. * Roy Helu (4) 
    8. Johnny White (5)
    9. * Alex Green (5-6)
    10. DaRel Scott (5-6)

     

     

    TE

    1. Kyle Rudolph + (1-2)
    2. * Virgil Green (4-5)
    3. * Rob Housler (3-4)
    4. Julius Thomas (5)
    5. Andre Smith (5-6)
    6. Chris Blohm (UDFA)

     

     

    OLB

    1. Ryan Kerrigan (1-2)
    2. * Justin Houston ^ (2)
    3. Akeem Ayers (2)
    4. Jabaal Sheard ^ (2)
    5. Brooks Reed (2-3)
    6. Sam Acho (3)
    7. * Greg Romeus + (4)
    8. Ugo Chinasa (4-5)
    9. * Jeremy Beal (4-5)
    10. Ricky Elmore (4-5)
    11. Thomas Keiser (6-7)

     

     

    ILB

    1. Colin McCarthy (4)
    2. Mason Foster (4)
    3. * Mark Herzlich + (4-5)
    4. Mike Mohamed (6)
    5. JT Thomas (6-7) 
    6. Doug Hogue (6-7)
    7. Jeff Tarpinian (7-UDFA)
    8. Marc Schiechl (7-UDFA)
    9. Michael Lockley (7-UDFA)

     

     

    SUB OUTSIDE PASS RUSHER

    1. Chris Carter (3)
    2. * Dontay Moch (3-4)
    3. * Adrian Moten (5-6)
    4. JT Thomas (6-7)

     

     

    CB

    1. Brandon Harris (2) 
    2. Ras-I Dowling (2-3)
    3. * Johnny Patrick (2-3)
    4. Curtis Brown (2-3)
    5. * Buster Skrine (5)
    6. Chykie Brown (4)
    7. * Cortez Allen ^ (5)

     

     

    S

    1. Aaron Williams (2) 
    2. * Rahim Moore (2)
    3. Marcus Gilchrist (3)
    4. * Jaiqwuan Jarrett (3)
    5. Quinton Carter (4)
    6. * Joe Lefeged (4-5)
    7. * Mark LeGree (6-7)

     

     

    QB

    1. * Greg McElroy (5)
    2. Ricky Stanzi (4)
    3. Mike Coughlin (7-UDFA)

     

     

    IT'S GONNA COST YOU DRAFT PICKS

    1. * Marcel Dareus $ (1)
    2. * AJ Green $ (1)
    3. * Patrick Peterson  $ (1)
    4. Prince Amukamara (1)
    5. Julio Jones + (1)

     

     

    LEGEND

    * = personal likes

    + = medical question (injury prone or questionable longevity of repairs)

    $ = safe pick (Very high floor)

    ^ = question (as simple as cockiness, effort, instincts, or more serious like past legal troubles)

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrustBill. Show TrustBill's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    Facing the Pats draft is always anxiety producing for me. Although I know ahead of time BB will not choose the "shiny hood ornaments" that the analysts are promoting, I still feel some emptiness when we don't get the recognizable players of need (Cam Jordan etc) or continually trade back into the draft. However, upon reflection BB is doing the right thing by trading back for more picks to maintain the long term competiveness of the team. It is like an ANNUITY that keeps paying off each year. What it means is we are always competitive and have ammunition necessary to select a QB when it is time to select Brady's replacement. I guess I am ready to accept that winning the Super Bowl every year is not a realistic goal and that winning once in a while as we maintain long term competitiveness is better strategy. For me as a fan it means making my own mental adjustments: becoming more humble and detached as we seek to play well all the time versus taking big risks (like Carolina taking Newton and the Titans taking Locker) and trying to hit home runs with high impact players.   
    Posted by NYC


    Well-written.  I shared the feelings.  Anxiety--Emptines--Attempts to detach.  There is nothing that we can do but trust Bill.

    So TrustBill
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Just for the record, which I know is not saying too much considering the Pats but, Nink had the 2nd highest pass rusher rating for the Patriots team last year wihich includes sacks, pressures, QB hits, etc.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    And that's the problem right there. On a team like the Pats Nin should be a sub high energy player that can come in with a minor drop off in production. When he's your 2nd best rusher on the team that's an issue. And, don't get me wrong because I love Nin and would gladly give him time over TBC but it's an issue

    The biggest thing about potential is that history has shown time and time again that your chances of finding a productive impact pass rushers are 50/50 in the 1st then drop to about 20/80 in the 2nd and just keep dropping from there. So when people say potential they really mean that they'd rather take a gamble with better odds in a major area of need early then try to fit against the odds later. Just remember BB has never found an impact rusher outside of the 1st while with the Pats.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : And that's the problem right there. On a team like the Pats Nin should be a sub high energy player that can come in with a minor drop off in production. When he's your 2nd best rusher on the team that's an issue. And, don't get me wrong because I love Nin and would gladly give him time over TBC but it's an issue The biggest thing about potential is that history has shown time and time again that your chances of finding a productive impact pass rushers are 50/50 in the 1st then drop to about 20/80 in the 2nd and just keep dropping from there. So when people say potential they really mean that they'd rather take a gamble with better odds in a major area of need early then try to fit against the odds later. Just remember BB has never found an impact rusher outside of the 1st while with the Pats.
    Posted by PatsEng


    You know we cool but that's just false.

    http://www.patriotsfootballplace.com/2011/04/historical-support-showing-difficulty.html

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : You know we cool but that's just false. http://www.patriotsfootballplace.com/2011/04/historical-support-showing-difficulty.html
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Just taking you're info you have 6 of the 12 OLB converts with consistent sacks taken in the 1st in the past decade that's 50/50. 1 in the 2nd, 1 in the 3rd, and 2 in the 4th, and 2 UDFA.  

    That just proves my point that you have better odds finding one in the 1st then in any other round. As a matter a fact when you take all the OLB's taken in the 1st round over this past decade I will guaranty that there is a much higher percentage of productive OLB's then in any other round in the draft so how am I wrong? 

    They also listed 3 out of 9 1st round picks as busts for OLB converts, but I feel the number is closer to 50% then the 66% they show
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Key word is potential. I still have EVERY one of my pass rushers from my Patriot specific big board still available to the Patriots except Ryan Kerrigan. I never really thought they would take him however. So the point is the Patriots have a board full of Pass rusher options that have just as much "potential" and more importantly fit for the Patriots with now less risk.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    They all have nothing but "potential" at this point. None of them have played a down. I'm sure the Patriots thought Darius Butler had "potential" and I'm sure Oakland thought the same of JaAwful Russell.

    I think you'd have to agree the odds on realizing "potential" are a lot better in the first round of the draft than any other round. Can they get lucky and find a "Clay Matthews" in the second or third round? Sure. Do the odds favor that is the question.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : They all have nothing but "potential" at this point. None of them have played a down. I'm sure the Patriots thought Darius Butler had "potential" and I'm sure Oakland thought the same of JaAwful Russell. I think you'd have to agree the odds on realizing "potential" are a lot better in the first round of the draft than any other round. Can they get lucky and find a "Clay Matthews" in the second or third round? Sure. Do the odds favor that is the question.
    Posted by sml1210



    Depends on the position.

    The problem is guessing the likelihood for an OT to reach his potential who you have 3 years of college film to evaluate him doing exactly what he will be doing in the pro's in your offensive system is much easier and safer.

    Taking a complete guess at a conversion(changing positions and responsibilities) guy with NO experience in college to evaluate while doing what you'd want him to do in your defensive system in the pro's is a much greater risk.

    The NFL draft history also very clearly demonstrates this.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    It looks like the Pats are going to trade out of #33 for a 1st next year and a 3rd this year which makes sense but that's going to leave us with #56 and #60. I doubt Reed, Ayers or Sheard will last to #56 so they might have to move up to grab one but I'm not seeing it this year truthfully. My gut says they are targeting Bailey as an elephant, which to me is a mistake, but I can see the rational. It balances out the line with Cunningham being the better cover OLB with good run stopping ability while Bailey seems like the better rusher with run stopping ability. Neither to me seem like a solution to the rushing problem just solid 3 down guys you won't have to worry about regardless if it's against a pass or run formation. They will bookend each other and be solid starters but without the right impact DE now I don't see our rush drastically improving. But that's just my opinion right now and I hope I'm wrong. Without a drastically improved pass rush I don't see us getting very far into the playoffs again next year either
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    I hope I am wrong but you get the feeling Mankins wants to at least see just how high some fool is willing to go before making any decision even if he would be the highest paid at the time of a Patriots offer.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
    Posted by Faucetman


    That's a great point and one not lost on me for sure. We are going to do something in FA, but I'm curious as to if it will be an impact player, or more depth.
    If you add TBC to that list, what is the yearly savings, how much do we have to play with? Any others you might want to add as well?

    I think we still have a ton of flexibility here in FA. With money saved and an extra 1st next year, we could see something interesting transpire. I got to thinkn the Pats and everyone else know who they want to target in FA already, and the draft will reflect that in some ways.

    My bet on round 2 if we stay with 3 picks, is we add a WR, RB and G. I think BB will go back to the OL late round and sure up the G position. I'm not getting my hopes up on an OLB in round 2. I don't think BB for some reason likes Reed nor Sheard. (see below).

    I think another trade occurs with 33. 33 is traded to Washington for 41 plus? Washington gets their pick of leftover QB's.

    #41 /> Torrey Smith
    #56 /> Ryan Williams
    #60 /> Will Rackley

    What worries me about round 2 is there are going to be a whole lot of good players going in the 33-56 range.

    Something tells me we might not draft an OLB in round 2, and instead go grab Chris Carter or Mason Foster in round 3, or maybe Moch or someone else that is going to provide 3rd down pass rush to start and not be that 3down OLB day 1.  

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JMUFranco. Show JMUFranco's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    I've been lurking these forums for a solid two years and figured I'd finally join. I found this on another website. Apparently in Belichick's interview with CSN, they videographer displayed a large section of the Pat's draft board, including names and grades. Figured this would help posters figure out what players could be targeted tomorrow. QB - you couldn't see the top of the list, but I assume it was Gabbert. After that: Locker - 8.something (not on screen) Newton - 7.990 Mallett - 7.712 Dalton - 7.185 Ponder - 6.709 Enderle - 5.936 McElroy - 5.571 Devlin - 5.578 OG Watkins - can't see the score Boling - 7.645 Moffit - 6.856 Cannon - 6.762 Carpenter - 6.546 Franklin - 6.227 Jackson - 6.012 Buren - 5.815 Schlauderaf - 5.627 Rackley - 5.549 Arkin - 5.531 Hurd - 5.039 Schilling - 5.013 C Pouncey - 8.132 Hudson - 7.642 Wisnewski - 6.337 O'Dowd - 5.894 Beeler - 5.367 Pugh - 5.367 McMahon - 5.633 (higher than previous 2) Kowolski - 5.548 OT Solder - 8.481 T Smith - 8.344 Carimi - 8.281 Costonzo - 8.067 Ijalana - 7.811 Sherrod - 7.614 Love - 6.088 Ziemba - 5.991 Hairston - 5.654 Pinkston - 5.433 Reid - 5.538 DE Dareus - 8.652 Quinn - 8.519 Jordan - 8.494 Clayborn - 8.301 Watt - 8.243 Wilkerson - 8.176 Heyward - 7.937 Bailey - 6.978 Sheard - 6.193 Reed - 6.134 Matthews - 5.542 Allen - 5.531 McPhee - 5.038 Klug - 4.227 NT Taylor - 7.814 Austin - 6.859 Jenkins - 5.832 Neild - 5.448 DT (the scores were off the screen, so I just have the order) Fairley - Aub Liuget - UIl Siliga - Utah Ballard - Iowa Casey - USC Ajiboye - SCar Nevis - LSU Guy - AzSt Larimore - SCar McClaine - SFla Parker - Richmond Taylor - Okla Thornton - Ark St WR Green - 8.782 Jones - 8.419 T Smith - 7.978 Cobb - 7.936 V Brown - 6.077 (SDSt) Little - 6.032 Doss - 6.015 Paul - 5.938 Young - 5.815 Toliver - 5.772 Hankerson - 5.732 Salas - 5.517 TE - couldn't see the top of the board, assume it's Randolph Stocker - 7.327 Kendricks - 6.859 Williams - 6.056 Dial - 5.906 Gantt - 5.618 Saunders - 5.589 Green - 5.390 Housler - 5.314 Jordan Cameron - 5.131 FB Marecic - couldn't see his score Hughes - 5.537 Cooper - 5.315 Havili - 5.216 Chapas - 5.082 Houston - 5.045 Morse - 4.876 Sims - 4.317 Sherman - 4.236 The board didn't display the LB's, DB's, or RB's unfortunately.  Based on these numbers, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator that the Pats may be looking at either Smith or Cobb as their first pick in the second (assuming it isn't traded), along with Boling, Hudson, or any of the LB's or RB's whose draft grades we couldn't see later on in the second. Posted by JMUFranco In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Wow this is really good stuff. IF its accurate it tells us a couple things; 1) Both Cam Jordan and Robert Quinn graded out slightly higher than Nate Solder, so BB must have thrown the BPA theory out the window. 2) Da'Quan Bowers is NOT on the Pats board. (unless I missed him) I think Solder is a good solid pick but I was dissappointed we didnt get Jordan. However I learned in 2001 to always trust BB when he irritated me (and probably a bunch of you) when he Took a big guy named Richard Seymour instead of David Terrell or Koren Robinson, WR's that Drew Bledsoe needed! In BB I trust, and bring on the 2nd round!
    Posted by Quagmire3

    Well, F my life. I realized these scores are the same ones on the video that was already discredited as a "sample" provided by PFW for Tom Curran's interview. So there goes all those numbers. Can we just pretend it's legit?

    Regardless, I think the Pats will take a long, hard look at OLB prospects like Reed, Ayers, and Houston. Even with the money saved from potentially not re-signing Light (which looks questionable at best at this point), premium pass rushers come at a hefty cost. If they target a pass rushing position in free agency, I expect it to come from a DE upfront, rather than the 3-4 OLB. This makes me think they will pick an OLB prospect over a DE in the second round.

    That being said, I have no clue what in the world Belichick will do tonight. My best guess is that he'll look for a situation where he can trade down to the midround, while acquiring a 2012 2nd round pick on top. I expect he'll make 3 of the picks in the second and 1 in the third.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    It looks like the Pats are going to trade out of #33 for a 1st next year and a 3rd this year which makes sense but that's going to leave us with #56 and #60. I doubt Reed, Ayers or Sheard will last to #56 so they might have to move up to grab one but I'm not seeing it this year truthfully. My gut says they are targeting Bailey as an elephant, which to me is a mistake, but I can see the rational. It balances out the line with Cunningham being the better cover OLB with good run stopping ability while Bailey seems like the better rusher with run stopping ability. Neither to me seem like a solution to the rushing problem just solid 3 down guys you won't have to worry about regardless if it's against a pass or run formation. They will bookend each other and be solid starters but without the right impact DE now I don't see our rush drastically improving. But that's just my opinion right now and I hope I'm wrong. Without a drastically improved pass rush I don't see us getting very far into the playoffs again next year either
    Posted by PatsEng


    Where did you see this?...was somethign posted on the #33 trade?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
    Posted by Faucetman


    The problem with that theory is that the Pats had a 150+mil payroll last season after Brady and Wilfork were resigned. With news that the league wants to be closer to the 140mil range initially for a salary cap that means the Pats have to dump some salary to get to it. Kaczur at 3mil doesn't sound like much unless you're a cash strapped team and need to dump salary so losing Light's and Kaczur salary brings you to about where the cap might be leaving not much wiggle room to sign impact FA's or resigning Mankins. Tonight will be very telling where if they take a G in the 2nd don't expect Mankins long term.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Yeah, this would be first on my list..keep Mankins. Pay him. We can't discount the mean factor. We all saw (less the Jets playoff loss) how he makes that line better with pure attitude and nastyness. That needs to rub off on Solder and the others.
     
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