2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    I hope I am wrong but you get the feeling Mankins wants to at least see just how high some fool is willing to go before making any decision even if he would be the highest paid at the time of a Patriots offer.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    That's a great point and one not lost on me for sure. We are going to do something in FA, but I'm curious as to if it will be an impact player, or more depth.
    If you add TBC to that list, what is the yearly savings, how much do we have to play with? Any others you might want to add as well?

    I think we still have a ton of flexibility here in FA. With money saved and an extra 1st next year, we could see something interesting transpire. I got to thinkn the Pats and everyone else know who they want to target in FA already, and the draft will reflect that in some ways.

    My bet on round 2 if we stay with 3 picks, is we add a WR, RB and G. I think BB will go back to the OL late round and sure up the G position. I'm not getting my hopes up on an OLB in round 2. I don't think BB for some reason likes Reed nor Sheard. (see below).

    I think another trade occurs with 33. 33 is traded to Washington for 41 plus? Washington gets their pick of leftover QB's.

    #41 /> Torrey Smith
    #56 /> Ryan Williams
    #60 /> Will Rackley

    What worries me about round 2 is there are going to be a whole lot of good players going in the 33-56 range.

    Something tells me we might not draft an OLB in round 2, and instead go grab Chris Carter or Mason Foster in round 3, or maybe Moch or someone else that is going to provide 3rd down pass rush to start and not be that 3down OLB day 1.  

     
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]I've been lurking these forums for a solid two years and figured I'd finally join. I found this on another website. Apparently in Belichick's interview with CSN, they videographer displayed a large section of the Pat's draft board, including names and grades. Figured this would help posters figure out what players could be targeted tomorrow. QB - you couldn't see the top of the list, but I assume it was Gabbert. After that: Locker - 8.something (not on screen) Newton - 7.990 Mallett - 7.712 Dalton - 7.185 Ponder - 6.709 Enderle - 5.936 McElroy - 5.571 Devlin - 5.578 OG Watkins - can't see the score Boling - 7.645 Moffit - 6.856 Cannon - 6.762 Carpenter - 6.546 Franklin - 6.227 Jackson - 6.012 Buren - 5.815 Schlauderaf - 5.627 Rackley - 5.549 Arkin - 5.531 Hurd - 5.039 Schilling - 5.013 C Pouncey - 8.132 Hudson - 7.642 Wisnewski - 6.337 O'Dowd - 5.894 Beeler - 5.367 Pugh - 5.367 McMahon - 5.633 (higher than previous 2) Kowolski - 5.548 OT Solder - 8.481 T Smith - 8.344 Carimi - 8.281 Costonzo - 8.067 Ijalana - 7.811 Sherrod - 7.614 Love - 6.088 Ziemba - 5.991 Hairston - 5.654 Pinkston - 5.433 Reid - 5.538 DE Dareus - 8.652 Quinn - 8.519 Jordan - 8.494 Clayborn - 8.301 Watt - 8.243 Wilkerson - 8.176 Heyward - 7.937 Bailey - 6.978 Sheard - 6.193 Reed - 6.134 Matthews - 5.542 Allen - 5.531 McPhee - 5.038 Klug - 4.227 NT Taylor - 7.814 Austin - 6.859 Jenkins - 5.832 Neild - 5.448 DT (the scores were off the screen, so I just have the order) Fairley - Aub Liuget - UIl Siliga - Utah Ballard - Iowa Casey - USC Ajiboye - SCar Nevis - LSU Guy - AzSt Larimore - SCar McClaine - SFla Parker - Richmond Taylor - Okla Thornton - Ark St WR Green - 8.782 Jones - 8.419 T Smith - 7.978 Cobb - 7.936 V Brown - 6.077 (SDSt) Little - 6.032 Doss - 6.015 Paul - 5.938 Young - 5.815 Toliver - 5.772 Hankerson - 5.732 Salas - 5.517 TE - couldn't see the top of the board, assume it's Randolph Stocker - 7.327 Kendricks - 6.859 Williams - 6.056 Dial - 5.906 Gantt - 5.618 Saunders - 5.589 Green - 5.390 Housler - 5.314 Jordan Cameron - 5.131 FB Marecic - couldn't see his score Hughes - 5.537 Cooper - 5.315 Havili - 5.216 Chapas - 5.082 Houston - 5.045 Morse - 4.876 Sims - 4.317 Sherman - 4.236 The board didn't display the LB's, DB's, or RB's unfortunately.  Based on these numbers, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator that the Pats may be looking at either Smith or Cobb as their first pick in the second (assuming it isn't traded), along with Boling, Hudson, or any of the LB's or RB's whose draft grades we couldn't see later on in the second. Posted by JMUFranco In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Wow this is really good stuff. IF its accurate it tells us a couple things; 1) Both Cam Jordan and Robert Quinn graded out slightly higher than Nate Solder, so BB must have thrown the BPA theory out the window. 2) Da'Quan Bowers is NOT on the Pats board. (unless I missed him) I think Solder is a good solid pick but I was dissappointed we didnt get Jordan. However I learned in 2001 to always trust BB when he irritated me (and probably a bunch of you) when he Took a big guy named Richard Seymour instead of David Terrell or Koren Robinson, WR's that Drew Bledsoe needed! In BB I trust, and bring on the 2nd round!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    Well, F my life. I realized these scores are the same ones on the video that was already discredited as a "sample" provided by PFW for Tom Curran's interview. So there goes all those numbers. Can we just pretend it's legit?

    Regardless, I think the Pats will take a long, hard look at OLB prospects like Reed, Ayers, and Houston. Even with the money saved from potentially not re-signing Light (which looks questionable at best at this point), premium pass rushers come at a hefty cost. If they target a pass rushing position in free agency, I expect it to come from a DE upfront, rather than the 3-4 OLB. This makes me think they will pick an OLB prospect over a DE in the second round.

    That being said, I have no clue what in the world Belichick will do tonight. My best guess is that he'll look for a situation where he can trade down to the midround, while acquiring a 2012 2nd round pick on top. I expect he'll make 3 of the picks in the second and 1 in the third.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]It looks like the Pats are going to trade out of #33 for a 1st next year and a 3rd this year which makes sense but that's going to leave us with #56 and #60. I doubt Reed, Ayers or Sheard will last to #56 so they might have to move up to grab one but I'm not seeing it this year truthfully. My gut says they are targeting Bailey as an elephant, which to me is a mistake, but I can see the rational. It balances out the line with Cunningham being the better cover OLB with good run stopping ability while Bailey seems like the better rusher with run stopping ability. Neither to me seem like a solution to the rushing problem just solid 3 down guys you won't have to worry about regardless if it's against a pass or run formation. They will bookend each other and be solid starters but without the right impact DE now I don't see our rush drastically improving. But that's just my opinion right now and I hope I'm wrong. Without a drastically improved pass rush I don't see us getting very far into the playoffs again next year either
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Where did you see this?...was somethign posted on the #33 trade?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]The Solder pick, or any starting LT pick, means we can let Light walk (perhaps get a 4th round comp pick in 2012), save the $7-8MM he wants, cut Kaczur saving another $3.5MM.  Now we have $10-11MM to play with once free agency starts.  Maybe we go after Cullen Jenkins and Reggie Bush with that money getting two vets instead of the rookies the Saints have.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    The problem with that theory is that the Pats had a 150+mil payroll last season after Brady and Wilfork were resigned. With news that the league wants to be closer to the 140mil range initially for a salary cap that means the Pats have to dump some salary to get to it. Kaczur at 3mil doesn't sound like much unless you're a cash strapped team and need to dump salary so losing Light's and Kaczur salary brings you to about where the cap might be leaving not much wiggle room to sign impact FA's or resigning Mankins. Tonight will be very telling where if they take a G in the 2nd don't expect Mankins long term.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Or use some of it to keep Mankins.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, this would be first on my list..keep Mankins. Pay him. We can't discount the mean factor. We all saw (less the Jets playoff loss) how he makes that line better with pure attitude and nastyness. That needs to rub off on Solder and the others.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Just taking you're info you have 6 of the 12 OLB converts with consistent sacks taken in the 1st in the past decade that's 50/50. 1 in the 2nd, 1 in the 3rd, and 2 in the 4th, and 2 UDFA.   That just proves my point that you have better odds finding one in the 1st then in any other round. As a matter a fact when you take all the OLB's taken in the 1st round over this past decade I will guaranty that there is a much higher percentage of productive OLB's then in any other round in the draft so how am I wrong?  They also listed 3 out of 9 1st round picks as busts for OLB converts, but I feel the number is closer to 50% then the 66% they show
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Hali wasn't drafted as a convert guy but i threw him in.

    You could aslo throw in Merriman as being a guy who would not have been a success without his steroids.

    Wimbley is also borderline but I like him so I added him, he's close enough.

    A number of the guys from the Steelers, Chargers, and Packers are playing in 1 gap attacking 3-4 systems and those guys would NOT have that production playing in NE's system. Yes I really believe that. Colvin and AT are perfect examples of changes in production after changing systems.

    The point is that even out of that list there are even fewer than that list when I look at it that I go oh wow yeah he's awesome.

    Also faucet did an anlysis which i used in one of my posts here showing how long it generally took those conversion types to produce.

    http://www.patriotsfootballplace.com/2011/04/countdown-to-impact-deolb-edition.html
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Where did you see this?...was somethign posted on the #33 trade?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Just rumors I was hearing before the draft that the Pats were shopping both pick #28 and #33 to teams wanting QB's. Since the Pats didn't trade #28 to a team looking for a QB it makes sense they are still taking offers for #33 from teams like SF, Cinn, Sea, Was, Oak who all are looking for QB's. From what I remember the asking price was a 3rd this year and a 1st next year for #33 which seems like a fair price for both sides. If a team I listed above offers that the value to the Pats is to great to turn a trade like that down considering the took a trade for what should turn out to be a late 1st next year with a late 2nd this year.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Hali wasn't drafted as a convert guy but i threw him in. You could aslo throw in Merriman as being a guy who would not have been a success without his steroids. Wimbley is also borderline but I like him so I added him, he's close enough. A number of the guys from the Steelers, Chargers, and Packers are playing in 1 gap attacking 3-4 systems and those guys would NOT have that production playing in NE's system. Yes I really believe that. Colvin and AT are perfect examples of changes in production after changing systems. The point is that even out of that list there are even fewer than that list when I look at it that I go oh wow yeah he's awesome. Also faucet did an anlysis which i used in one of my posts here showing how long it generally took those conversion types to produce. http://www.patriotsfootballplace.com/2011/04/countdown-to-impact-deolb-edition.html
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    You can argue that players don't fit the Patriot mold all the time which holds true for every player in the draft (ie a 43 DE taken in the top 10 might not produce in the NE system but is an all pro) but the fact of the matter is impact pass rushers are hard to find and the one round that consistently puts out the most productive rushers is the 1st no matter how long it takes for them to develop. Once you get past the 1st there is a noticeably drop off in production from those types of players. However, this doesn't hold true for the OL esp in NE. So again the whole point is that with rushing being one of the most common threads why we can't advance in the post season the best way to fix that issue is to take a pass rusher earlier where you have a better shot of finding an impact player.

    Let me emphasize that I think Solder was a safe pick that could become a pro-bowler and I like the pick IF they fix the pass rush either through FA or in the 2nd round but I want the Pats from 01-06 back. I want the D we use to love and the best way to get back to that is to get an impact rusher that can disrupt the opponents game plan
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Just rumors I was hearing before the draft that the Pats were shopping both pick #28 and #33 to teams wanting QB's. Since the Pats didn't trade #28 to a team looking for a QB it makes sense they are still taking offers for #33 from teams like SF, Cinn, Sea, Was, Oak who all are looking for QB's. From what I remember the asking price was a 3rd this year and a 1st next year for #33 which seems like a fair price for both sides. If a team I listed above offers that the value to the Pats is to great to turn a trade like that down considering the took a trade for what should turn out to be a late 1st next year with a late 2nd this year.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    33 for a 2011 3rd and 2012 1st sounds about right. 3 1sts in 2012 is unbelievable, but at the same time, I think there is a bunch of good talent all through round 2. We also will have 3, 3rds if this happens. I guess we could move one of those into a 2nd next, or trade it up this year for a 2nd, getting back a 2nd. All this movement makes me dizzy, but man, I think BB has done a good job of conditioning us all to be draft movers and seeing it as a multi-year process...more than I can say for a lot of other teams.

    Hmmm...3 1st rounders next year...The 3rd one better be to a terrible team so we can enter the Luck sweepstakes. I'm dreaming now, but if that 3rd 1st is a top 5-7 pick next year, we coudl package 2 1sts and go get Luck, and still have another 1st...anyway enough about next year.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : You can argue that players don't fit the Patriot mold all the time which holds true for every player in the draft (ie a 43 DE taken in the top 10 might not produce in the NE system but is an all pro) but the fact of the matter is impact pass rushers are hard to find and the one round that consistently puts out the most productive rushers is the 1st no matter how long it takes for them to develop. Once you get past the 1st there is a noticeably drop off in production from those types of players. However, this doesn't hold true for the OL esp in NE. So again the whole point is that with rushing being one of the most common threads why we can't advance in the post season the best way to fix that issue is to take a pass rusher earlier where you have a better shot of finding an impact player. Let me emphasize that I think Solder was a safe pick that could become a pro-bowler and I like the pick IF they fix the pass rush either through FA or in the 2nd round but I want the Pats from 01-06 back. I want the D we use to love and the best way to get back to that is to get an impact rusher that can disrupt the opponents game plan
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I think it will happen. Again, I think it happens in round 3 that we get the 3rd down OLB pass rusher. There are still Moch and Carter on the board, and both are productive as pass rushers in that regard. They are not 3 down OLB's with pass rushing skills year 1 that you find in round 1, but they can serve a purpose on 3rd down, or whenever it is a passing situation.
    What I don't like about this is the fact that you have to keep subbing for specialists, unless we find a diamond out there in round 2 or 3 that can be that 3down OLB very early on.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    trade #33 to Washington...we end up with #41, #49, #56, and #60...give them a third, and switch @2012 #1's(Pats #1)....works for me....
     
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    [QUOTE]It looks like the Pats are going to trade out of #33 for a 1st next year and a 3rd this year which makes sense but that's going to leave us with #56 and #60. I doubt Reed, Ayers or Sheard will last to #56 so they might have to move up to grab one but I'm not seeing it this year truthfully. My gut says they are targeting Bailey as an elephant, which to me is a mistake, but I can see the rational. It balances out the line with Cunningham being the better cover OLB with good run stopping ability while Bailey seems like the better rusher with run stopping ability. Neither to me seem like a solution to the rushing problem just solid 3 down guys you won't have to worry about regardless if it's against a pass or run formation. They will bookend each other and be solid starters but without the right impact DE now I don't see our rush drastically improving. But that's just my opinion right now and I hope I'm wrong. Without a drastically improved pass rush I don't see us getting very far into the playoffs again next year either
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I think everyone universally belives this needs to improve. I know I am with you on it.

    I am not sure I follow your angst about not getting one yesterday though. I've talked about getting a DE for 2 years. However, my issue was never the pass rush from that spot. We got run over routinely 2 years ago which is why I wanted one.

    If your angst is pass rush and don't like that Wight had 10.5 sacks while missing 6 games the past 2 seasons here is a something that might make you feel better.

    ...and even Seymour only had 2 seasons with us when he had more than 5 sacks. That's the same as Wight in just his last 2 seasons.

    Cam Jordan - 12 sacks last 2 years
    Cam Heyward - 10 sacks last 2 years
    Allen Bailey - 14 sacks last 2 years

    I am sure there are even other options and I have absolutely no idea what the Patriots thought or think or any of those 3 players.

    I just happen to like AB because he has had success playing DT, DE, and standing up and was recruited to play linebacker. BB could move and play him anywhere. Pats might think he's a stiff for all I know.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : I think it will happen. Again, I think it happens in round 3 that we get the 3rd down OLB pass rusher. There are still Moch and Carter on the board, and both are productive as pass rushers in that regard. They are not 3 down OLB's with pass rushing skills year 1 that you find in round 1, but they can serve a purpose on 3rd down, or whenever it is a passing situation. What I don't like about this is the fact that you have to keep subbing for specialists, unless we find a diamond out there in round 2 or 3 that can be that 3down OLB very early on.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    The issue I have with that is that Moch and Carter both have rushing issues where they are 1 tool players that need to develop more rushing moves. If I'm going after a pure rushing specialist I want someone who was dominant in college averaging 10+ sacks over their career against high level talent with multiple moves. Not someone like Moch who was easily taken out of plays and the majority of sacks came on broken plays or that he simply used his speed to get around a slower T.

    I actually think Bailey is going to be the pick much like Cunningham was last year. Cunningham is a good all around player that is better dropping back while Bailey is a good all around player with better rushing ability. They compliment each other nicely it's just both are very solid 3 down players but neither are the impact player we are missing. Of course if we get a top 5 pick next year and get a top DE then all of a sudden we could have the most dominant front 7 on all downs in the league
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***


    So, can Moch or Carter be 3 down OLB's for us? I wasn't a big Moch fan coming into the draft, but he's looking more attractive in round 3. He is a solid pass rusher and could be a good ST player as well. BB grooms him and he could be that 3down OLB perhaps.

    Again, I'm thinking we don't draft an OLB in round 2. For some reason I keep thinking we'll see something happen in round 3.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : I think everyone universally belives this needs to improve. I know I am with you on it. I am not sure I follow your angst about not getting one yesterday though. I've talked about getting a DE for 2 years. However, my issue was never the pass rush from that spot. We got run over routinely 2 years ago which is why I wanted one. If your angst is pass rush and don't like that Wight had 10.5 sacks while missing 6 games the past 2 seasons here is a something that might make you feel better. ...and even Seymour only had 2 seasons with us when he had more than 5 sacks. That's the same as Wight in just his last 2 seasons. Cam Jordan - 12 sacks last 2 years Cam Heyward - 10 sacks last 2 years Allen Bailey - 14 sacks last 2 years I am sure there are even other options and I have absolutely no idea what the Patriots thought or think or any of those 3 players. I just happen to like AB because he has had success playing DT, DE, and standing up and was recruited to play linebacker. BB could move and play him anywhere. Pats might think he's a stiff for all I know.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    When you look at Seymour realize that it's not about the stats with him. Even when he didn't have the sacks he consistently was being doubled and tripled teamed while collapsing the pocket and forcing the QB to the OLB's. Wright is getting his stats because he is being single teamed.

    To me a dominant rushing DE might not get double digit sacks but still puts enough pressure on opponents that they have to over compensate for him forcing a change in game plan or opening holes for less talented players to take advantage of. Wright is a nice solid player but he doesn't come close to the same production Seymour provide. Proof is how bad the pass rush dropped off when Seymour was traded and Wright took over for him even though Wright had better stats.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***


    profootballtalk.com just posted their 2nd round mock with no trades.
    Have us taking Brooks Reed, Ryan Williams and Marcus Gilchrest in round 2 respectively. That would be a bad haul at all.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]profootballtalk.com just posted their 2nd round mock with no trades. Have us taking Brooks Reed, Ryan Williams and Marcus Gilchrest in round 2 respectively. That would be a bad haul at all.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    If that were to happen I'd be very happy with us taking Solder in the 1st as I think Reed helps with the pass rush and Williams actually helps the D chewing up time late in the game. I'd take it and be happy but I have a hard time believing they don't trade one of those picks into next year along with 1 of the 3rds into next year too.

    I see us having 3 1st and 2 2nds in next years draft
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : The issue I have with that is that Moch and Carter both have rushing issues where they are 1 tool players that need to develop more rushing moves. If I'm going after a pure rushing specialist I want someone who was dominant in college averaging 10+ sacks over their career against high level talent with multiple moves. Not someone like Moch who was easily taken out of plays and the majority of sacks came on broken plays or that he simply used his speed to get around a slower T. I actually think Bailey is going to be the pick much like Cunningham was last year. Cunningham is a good all around player that is better dropping back while Bailey is a good all around player with better rushing ability. They compliment each other nicely it's just both are very solid 3 down players but neither are the impact player we are missing. Of course if we get a top 5 pick next year and get a top DE then all of a sudden we could have the most dominant front 7 on all downs in the league
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Yes sir agreed but really now who doesn't? How often does that happen? There weren't really any of those guys in this draft.

    Maybe VM but he has his own deficiencies as well.
    Kerrigan try hard guy, productive but multiple moves? Not imo.
    Quinn or smith multiple 10+ years of sacks with no questions?

    You mentioned the ideal and heck yes I am right there with you but didn't see dDemarcus ware or LT in this draft.

    Heck Nink only played 2 years at Purdue but had back to back 10 sack seasons.

    IMO majority of all sacks from all players come on those types of plays  or special circumstance. Clay Mathews last season got at least 40% of his sacks off those types or free runs on odd man rushes unblocked. Fairley last year in championship and during season just blew through a open space with speed when a guard or centered pulled and was just unblocked. Etc etc.

    By the way always enjoy discussions with you.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    lol as I with you Low.

    My point was that if I was to target a pure rushing specialist where his only job was to rush I want someone who is dominant at rushing who uses more then 1 tool to get to the QB. Verses Quinn, Jordan, Kerrigan, Bailey who are all expected to be 3 down LB's where I'd be willing to trade off on the rushing ability for coverage and run stopping ability.

    I guess what I'm saying is that unless the pass rusher was so dominant in that one aspect in college can we truely expect them to be better then what we currently have in TBC, Moore, or Nin. And if they aren't and that's their only role would a 2nd or 3rd round pick be better spent on a G, WR, RB, or DB who has the chance to be a starter?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : When you look at Seymour realize that it's not about the stats with him. Even when he didn't have the sacks he consistently was being doubled and tripled teamed while collapsing the pocket and forcing the QB to the OLB's. Wright is getting his stats because he is being single teamed. To me a dominant rushing DE might not get double digit sacks but still puts enough pressure on opponents that they have to over compensate for him forcing a change in game plan or opening holes for less talented players to take advantage of. Wright is a nice solid player but he doesn't come close to the same production Seymour provide. Proof is how bad the pass rush dropped off when Seymour was traded and Wright took over for him even though Wright had better stats.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Figured you would bring that up and was going to address it in last post but you are preaching to the choir but Seymour is one of the best DE all time in the NFL. You aren't landing him every decade.

    Also you have to keep in mind perception when you talk about drop off in pass rush when Seymour left. Timing is everything.

    Seymour tied his 2nd best season in 2008 in his personal sack statistics.  Not always the case with him.

    Also the 2008 defense as a whole was much better so he had a far greater and more experienced supporting cast. The pass rush was NOT all Seymour that year. Pats still had a lot of guys around then. Vrabes, AD, Warren, Harrison, etc.

    Very different dynamic that year with the D playing very well leading up to the end of the season as a whole. Personally was excited to see the damage they could cause in the playoffs had they gotten in.

    Seymour wasn't the only guy to exit when the drop off came.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!*** : Not a lot of Rd 1-2 kids, but they've taken 11 Big Ten players during BB's time in Foxboro, including two staples of the franchise. Brady Light Maroney Crable Wilson Mesko Ohrnberger TJ Turner Greg Robinson-Randall David Nugent Christian Morton
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    Locker goes #8 to the titans...... i guess im not the only one who thinks his "accuracy issues" can be fixed! lol hahaha

    enjoy the rest of the draft!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    I forgot to even think about this but maybe the Pats like someone else that might be out there as a FA or expecting a contract cost cut of someone they like from another team as well?

    I really will be disappointed if they do at least attempt to address OLB or 3-tech/penetrating DL for pass rush at some point in day 2.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***IT'S GO TIME!***

    Truthfully if I were to target a pure rushing specialist I'd look at later round selection such as:

    Steven Friday
    Ugo Chinasa
    Justin Houston (if he slips into the 4th which could happen)
    Devin Mayo

    And then take those 2nd and 3rd rounders and use those to move into next year, grab some more OL help, grab a RB or WR, and maybe target a DL player like Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy
     

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