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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Updated draft order.

    #14
    #32
    #33
    #64
    #76
    #96
    #128

    Gotta cheer for the Texans and Vikings to win tomorrow.  That would make 5 teams at 6-7 with the Raiders.  Not sure about the tie breakers but the Raiders pick could be at #12 by tomorrow night.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Looking good for Pats getting:

    1 Akeem Ayers OLB
    1b Jared Crick DE
    2 Jimmy Smith CB
    2b DeMarco Murray RB
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Pats, a couple of comments.  Not disrespecting Harris but why would the Pats spend a top half of the first round pick on another CB?  With Bodden coming back it doesn't make sense to me.  A general draft rule is you expect your 1st and 2nd round picks to be 3 down players and Harris would only play on special teams and sub packages.  Assuming he can beat out Bodden (which is a stretch coming into our system the first year), he would only moderately upgrade Bodden.  We have far bigger needs such as DE, rush OLB, and interior OL. 

    The deadline for college underclassmen to declare is Jan 15.  So we are one month away.  Players are already starting to declare.  Baldwin is coming out and after reading the release, I don't want him...

    Dec. 8, 2010 - 1:55 PM ET

    Pittsburgh WR Jonathan Baldwin announced that he will forgo his senior season with the Panthers and enter the 2011 NFL draft.

    Baldwin is coming off a disappointing season along with the rest of the Pitt program, which fired coach Dave Wannstedt on Tuesday. Though Baldwin's leaping ability and size (6'5/230 listed) can't be taught, he also has a history of off-field problems. It's worth noting that Baldwin ripped Pitt upon announcing his draft intentions on Wednesday: "Heck yeah I'm leaving," he said. "It can only get worse. They had me running a lot of deep routes [this year] and yards were hard to come by. I barely ran intermediate routes; it felt like they were purposely trying to disrupt my draft stock." A projected late first- to second-round pick, Baldwin comes with plenty of Knucklehead Factor.

    I noticed most boards have moved Zeimba to OG.  He would make a beastly guard.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    Thought on the Raiders before I post my last mock for a few weeks, there are a few games to be played and my Jrs will not announce if the choose to come out for a few months still. Raiders are 6-6 with 4 games left: @ Jacksonville - Jags should win this game Vs Broncos - Will have to see how the Broncos play for their new coach but after a 59-14 A $$ kicking in Denver, don't see the broncos winning, Raiders vs Indy - The colts will need to win out to make the playoffs, they won't loss this game, Colts @ KC - Possible the playoffs and division is determined by the winner of this game if the CHargers win out.  KC will need to win to win their division while the raiders have their Uhauls packed up.  Chiefs Final record 7-9 with that record the pick should fall 12 to 16, I say it falls at 14 Although I believe Ayers or Kerrigan will fall into range.  Two reasons I still wait to pickup the OLB; one Harris is a very good CB and has a bright future, can do it all and second there are two OLBs that I'm extremely high on even more than Kerrigan and Ayers.  These two OLBs will make an impact, they are fast, quick and best of all know how to get to the QB.  Looking at this mock, there are names (actually a ton) that are not been talked about much but they will be in a few months.  #14 Brandon Harris CB 5'11" 195 JR Very talented, has shutdown abilities.  Plays well zone and man as well as run support. #32 Alson Smith OLB 6'5" 260 JR(redshirt sophmore) My pick for an everydown OLB, great first step sets the edge.  Biggest question is, does he come out if he does he might need to be had with the 14th.  1st of my 2 OLBs. #33 Dontay Moch OLB 6'1" 242 I know what you are all thinking, BB doesn't draft OLBs under 6'3" well he also didn't line up CBs at DE but he did with Arrinton.  Moch is a great pass rusher and rumors to have sub 4.30 40 time.  He's not only fast but he does get the sacks, plays with leverage and uses different moves to get to the QB.  He will be a nightmare on passing downs and all special teams.  Remember the name. #62 Lawrence Guy DE 6'5" 300 JR  Another stud Jr.  He is a run stuffing DE who makes a ton of plays in the backfield.  Has a nonestop motor and brings a passrush.  3rd rnd (Min) Anthony Allen RB 6'0" 230  Alot will be said about what type of RB and offense this kids comes from at Georgia Tech (my back yard :) but he can run.  He's a powerful RB who will run people over.  He's got both power and speed to run through and can make moves in the open field.  Really like this kid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LBXClhyzm0 Look at power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAb_0ZuwGnw&NR=1 watch some speed 3rd Rnd (Pats) Andrew Jackson OL 6'5" 295 The Next Logan Mankins?  Question asked on the article I'm posting.  He sounds like a guy who would be a great addition to this line.  I have not seen him play but have not found any negative on this kid.  Until I get shown where he's not worth the pick I like what I've been reading so far.   http://draftcountdown.com/draft-blog/2010/11/athletes-maulers/ 4th Rnd Lee Ziemba OT 6'8" 308 He's not talked about much but is a good option in the 4th.  I've been saying that Light is back which will give Ziemba a year or two to work on his skills in the NFL. 5th Rnd Armand Robinson WR 6'0" 200 Has lead Miami of Ohio in catches, he plays in the slot and runs good routes.  He has the speed and hands to play inside or outside.  Just another weapon in the type of O the Pats have moved to. 6th Rnd Zach Hurd OG 6'7" 315 This is more of wishful thinking that anything else, Hurd probably doesn't get pass the 4th or maybe 5th round but had to get his name here. Let me give you two UDFAs you hope to see in camp next season: Craig Marshall DE/OLB 6'5" 260 he hasn't had a real chance to play because of guys like George Selvie and Jason Pierre-Paul and when he did this season he got hurt so missed a few games.  Very quick off the edge. Michael Janac DE/DT 6'5" 294 One word describes this kid, RAW.  Very powerful and runs well for a 300 lb man.  He will need to develop, yes but give him a year or 2 in this system can turn into a very good DE.  At worse, he is Wrights replacement in a few years.
    Posted by Pats7393


    Pats,
    Harris and Smith (assuming they declare) are both intriguing kids that will certainly be part of the discussion with their top 3 picks. 

    I don't see a scenario in which Moch would be an option for them that high.  I don't deny his talent and ability to rush the passer, but he's not a fit for their scheme and would at best be a part time, situational edge rusher.  His value, IMO, would be to a 4-3 team.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    Updated draft order. #14 #32 #33 #64 #76 #96 #128 Gotta cheer for the Texans and Vikings to win tomorrow.  That would make 5 teams at 6-7 with the Raiders.  Not sure about the tie breakers but the Raiders pick could be at #12 by tomorrow night.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Thanks for the update.  I hate having to root for a team QB'd by Brett Fav-re  but, the trade off is worth it, ha.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Pats, Harris and Smith (assuming they declare) are both intriguing kids that will certainly be part of the discussion with their top 3 picks.  I don't see a scenario in which Moch would be an option for them that high.  I don't deny his talent and ability to rush the passer, but he's not a fit for their scheme and would at best be a part time, situational edge rusher.  His value, IMO, would be to a 4-3 team.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I know the 6'3"+ 260lbs is the mold of molds and that was the first thing I looked at until I saw Arrington lined up at DE.  If BB liked the type of rush he got from a smaller quicker pass rusher why not have a guy who can be in sub packages, which NE plays over 50% of the time and still can play outside when they play teams with very quick small backs.  I think he can be a very nice player.  I agree his size says 43 OLB but watching some 6'1 guys around the league do well at 34 OLBs tells me it is possible.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    Pats, a couple of comments.  Not disrespecting Harris but why would the Pats spend a top half of the first round pick on another CB?  With Bodden coming back it doesn't make sense to me.  A general draft rule is you expect your 1st and 2nd round picks to be 3 down players and Harris would only play on special teams and sub packages.  Assuming he can beat out Bodden (which is a stretch coming into our system the first year), he would only moderately upgrade Bodden.  We have far bigger needs such as DE, rush OLB, and interior OL.  The deadline for college underclassmen to declare is Jan 15.  So we are one month away.  Players are already starting to declare.  Baldwin is coming out and after reading the release, I don't want him... Dec. 8, 2010 - 1:55 PM ET Pittsburgh WR Jonathan Baldwin announced that he will forgo his senior season with the Panthers and enter the 2011 NFL draft. Baldwin is coming off a disappointing season along with the rest of the Pitt program, which fired coach Dave Wannstedt on Tuesday. Though Baldwin's leaping ability and size (6'5/230 listed) can't be taught, he also has a history of off-field problems. It's worth noting that Baldwin ripped Pitt upon announcing his draft intentions on Wednesday: "Heck yeah I'm leaving," he said. "It can only get worse. They had me running a lot of deep routes [this year] and yards were hard to come by. I barely ran intermediate routes; it felt like they were purposely trying to disrupt my draft stock." A projected late first- to second-round pick, Baldwin comes with plenty of Knucklehead Factor. I noticed most boards have moved Zeimba to OG.  He would make a beastly guard.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Two good CBs are not enough in today's NFL.  Teams now have 3 or 4 WRs who can run well and catch the ball.  Only having to above average CB (Bodden DM) is not enough.  Patriots play over 50% of the time in sub packages, Chung has played down in slot because they are missing a guy to put there.  I believe Whilhite is gone, Harris will be a very nice replacement.  Bodden is 30 already, an injury and the secondary can be in trouble.

    Now, I saw Arrington play tonight and boy he's looking mighty good.  Might be he becomes a very solid CB and I won't see as big a need to have Harris but right now I think a third (specially one which projects as a very good NFL prospect) CB is as big a need as DE.  OLB is bigger but I rather have Smith late in the 1st than Kerrigan mid 1st but that's just me.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Hey guys, the Pats just mathematically clinched the 5th tie breaker with the Jets, Strength of Victory today.  Why is that important?  Because if the Jets win out and the Pats get only one more win against either BUF or MIA, it would force the 5th tie breaker and now we own it.

    The Jets only hopes to win the division are to win out with us losing out or for the Jets to win out and we lose to both MIA and BUF. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    I seem to remember someone posting that Price had bad hands and would never be any good. Havent seen anyone on tv talking about it but that catch he made was as good as any catch you can make. Talk about good hands.Mat\ybe we dont need a reciever
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    I seem to remember someone posting that Price had bad hands and would never be any good. Havent seen anyone on tv talking about it but that catch he made was as good as any catch you can make. Talk about good hands.Mat\ybe we dont need a reciever
    Posted by max5344


    I think you mean Tate....He has struggled with dropping the easy passes
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Two good CBs are not enough in today's NFL.  Teams now have 3 or 4 WRs who can run well and catch the ball.  Only having to above average CB (Bodden DM) is not enough.  Patriots play over 50% of the time in sub packages, Chung has played down in slot because they are missing a guy to put there.  I believe Whilhite is gone, Harris will be a very nice replacement.  Bodden is 30 already, an injury and the secondary can be in trouble. Now, I saw Arrington play tonight and boy he's looking mighty good.  Might be he becomes a very solid CB and I won't see as big a need to have Harris but right now I think a third (specially one which projects as a very good NFL prospect) CB is as big a need as DE.  OLB is bigger but I rather have Smith late in the 1st than Kerrigan mid 1st but that's just me.
    Posted by Pats7393

    I'm not disputing we need to have a solid back-up CB.  We need a solid back-up or two at each position.  My point is you don't spend a high 1st round pick on a guy who would see the field on about half of our defensive snaps.  The only way you do this is if you are set at every other position.  Getting another front line CB with our top pick is a luxury, not a need.  Getting a starting DE who would clearly beat out Brace or Deaderick or whatever the flavor of the day is, is essential. 

    As you mentioned, Arrington appears to be a solid back up.  I think Wilhite will be back.  I think after yesterday's game, Butler is the odd man out.  A dumb PI penalty plus he let an interception go through his hands won't help his cause.  This only adds to my point.  We spent two 2nd round picks at CB over the past 3 drafts.  One (Wheatley) was already cut and Butler will be next. 

    We hit on our 1st with McCourty, so we are 1 for 3 on drafting CBs with premium picks over the past 3 years.  First round picks MUST be SAFE picks and should play every down.  BB said it himself with McCourty.  He said he felt McCourty was a four down player.  So, why would he draft a 2 down player at the top of the first?  I would much rather draft someone like Chekwa in the 3rd.  We developed Samuel, a 4th round pick, Randall Gay an UDFA, and now Arrington a UDFA of PHI.  Let's use #1 on a stud DE, a stud OLB or OL.  To me that's better value and bigger need.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    The below is from Brian DiTullio of the Bleacher Report.  This is his list of underclassmen who should declare because they have nothing to gain by staying in school.  I don't know how the heck he could have left Cam Newton, Nick Fairley and JJ Watt off his list.  These three guys have nothing left to prove in college and all three are top 15 picks.  I'm going to put these guys in there in red where I think they belong.  I won't change his order although we should discuss it.  If all or most of these guys come out, we're going to have one heck of a draft.

    1.  QB Andrew Luck
    2.  CB Patrick Peterson
    3.  DE Da'Quan Bowers
         DT Nick Fairley
         QB Cam Newton
    4.  DT Marcell Dareus
    5.  DE Robert Quinn
    6.  WR AJ Green
         DE JJ Watt
    7.  CB Janoris Jenkins
    8.  OLB Akeem Ayers
    9.  RB Mark Ingram
    10. QB Ryan Mallett
    11. CB Aaron Williams
    12. RB Ryan Williams
    13. WR Julio Jones
    14. ILB Dont'a Hightower
    15. S Lance Mitchell
    16. S Mark Barron
    17. CB Brandon Harris
    18. WR Jonathan Baldwin - Already declared
    19. RB LaMichael James - I didn't think he was eligible, but he is.  Not clean off the field, arrest for domestic violence against his GF, suspended a game.
    20. OT DeMarcus Love
    21. S Rahim Moore - My favorite safety
    22. CB Brandon Burton
    23. DT Jerel Worthy - Didn't realize he had a red shirt year.  Should be part of our discussion at 6-3, 305, 5.04
    24. WR Ryan Broyles
    25. TE Kyle Rudolph
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    The pick that intrigues me the most is the 33rd. There will be wheeling and dealing for that pick.
    Posted by bobbysu

    Absolutely correct.  Because there is a whole night before the 2nd round, teams will be calling wanting to land their BPA.  I could see us getting more than fair market value.  I could see us getting a later 2nd, in the 40 range plus a 2012 2nd for that pick.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I'm not disputing we need to have a solid back-up CB.  We need a solid back-up or two at each position.  My point is you don't spend a high 1st round pick on a guy who would see the field on about half of our defensive snaps.  The only way you do this is if you are set at every other position.  Getting another front line CB with our top pick is a luxury, not a need.  Getting a starting DE who would clearly beat out Brace or Deaderick or whatever the flavor of the day is, is essential.  As you mentioned, Arrington appears to be a solid back up.  I think Wilhite will be back.  I think after yesterday's game, Butler is the odd man out.  A dumb PI penalty plus he let an interception go through his hands won't help his cause.  This only adds to my point.  We spent two 2nd round picks at CB over the past 3 drafts.  One (Wheatley) was already cut and Butler will be next.  We hit on our 1st with McCourty, so we are 1 for 3 on drafting CBs with premium picks over the past 3 years.  First round picks MUST be SAFE picks and should play every down.  BB said it himself with McCourty.  He said he felt McCourty was a four down player.  So, why would he draft a 2 down player at the top of the first?  I would much rather draft someone like Chekwa in the 3rd.  We developed Samuel, a 4th round pick, Randall Gay an UDFA, and now Arrington a UDFA of PHI.  Let's use #1 on a stud DE, a stud OLB or OL.  To me that's better value and bigger need.
    Posted by Faucetman


    If wilhite would be healthy more than injured I would agree but IMO he has just not be able to play because of injuries.  Butler probably gets another year to progress.  I think one of our different views might be how good we each think Bodden is.  Although I think he's a solid CB he's not a guy who takes the half a field away.  He is a solid #2 IMO but that #2 CB can be improved.

    Also I see a few guys who I might be higher on that most who I think could be an upgrade from the current roster who are available in the late 1st and 2nd. 

    Watt and Fairley are off the charts, but if we see it scouts defenetely see that and probably put a strong case for those guys.  I really how Arrington is playing, he did very well against some fast WRs yesterday although field conditions slowed him down.  If he keeps getting better then I wouldn't worry about an injury to Bodden or McCourty next season and having a huge drop off from those two. 

    thinking those studs DEs with excellent seasons and probably excellent combine/workouts make it into the top 10 out of NE's reach.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I'm not disputing we need to have a solid back-up CB.  We need a solid back-up or two at each position.  My point is you don't spend a high 1st round pick on a guy who would see the field on about half of our defensive snaps.  The only way you do this is if you are set at every other position.  Getting another front line CB with our top pick is a luxury, not a need.  Getting a starting DE who would clearly beat out Brace or Deaderick or whatever the flavor of the day is, is essential.  As you mentioned, Arrington appears to be a solid back up.  I think Wilhite will be back.  I think after yesterday's game, Butler is the odd man out.  A dumb PI penalty plus he let an interception go through his hands won't help his cause.  This only adds to my point.  We spent two 2nd round picks at CB over the past 3 drafts.  One (Wheatley) was already cut and Butler will be next.  We hit on our 1st with McCourty, so we are 1 for 3 on drafting CBs with premium picks over the past 3 years.  First round picks MUST be SAFE picks and should play every down.  BB said it himself with McCourty.  He said he felt McCourty was a four down player.  So, why would he draft a 2 down player at the top of the first?  I would much rather draft someone like Chekwa in the 3rd.  We developed Samuel, a 4th round pick, Randall Gay an UDFA, and now Arrington a UDFA of PHI.  Let's use #1 on a stud DE, a stud OLB or OL.  To me that's better value and bigger need.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,
    I'm not against drafting a DE, OLB or OL in Rd 1, though I still think they go BPA (which could be CB) vs. an assumed need pick.  I disagree that taking a CB would result in a 2 down player while selecting a DE would automatically result in a 3-4 down player.  The argument that applies for Bodden coming back also applies to Ty Warren.  Also, who's to say that Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris, or another CB they identify couldn't come in and replace Bodden and be an everydown player and provide a bigger impact than any DE that's available with their pick?  I agree with your point around them taking a safe (likely starter) pick in Rd 1 which is why I go with BPA.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Faucet, I'm not against drafting a DE, OLB or OL in Rd 1, though I still think they go BPA (which could be CB) vs. an assumed need pick.  I disagree that taking a CB would result in a 2 down player while selecting a DE would automatically result in a 3-4 down player.  The argument that applies for Bodden coming back also applies to Ty Warren.  Also, who's to say that Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris, or another CB they identify couldn't come in and replace Bodden and be an everydown player and provide a bigger impact than any DE that's available with their pick?  I agree with your point around them taking a safe (likely starter) pick in Rd 1 which is why I go with BPA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Or worse, Bodden doesn't come back at all. Also if Brandon Harris is there with the Raiders pick, it's a great pick for the team. He's exactly the type of quick and physical CB BB likes. He's only not a top 10 pick because of the two star corners ahead of him. If not him, Brandon Burton or Aaron Williams around the end of the first round or beginning of the second round is a great value pick, another duo who are physical, quick corners.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    A thought on Bodden and CBs and I promise I won't keep going on the CB front. 

    Going into next season, we'll have McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite

    i don't think Wilhite will be back and on the fence on Butler.  He hasn't had enough snaps yet to really grade if he's improved.  GB will be a good test if McCourty can't go. 

    Next year I see McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler.  Outside of McCourty the other three can be upgraded.  One problem this season has been having to use Chung in nickel/slot to cover due to lack  of that 3rd CB (one that gets the job done) or a CB who can matchup against a TE splitting out wide which we've seen more and more.
    Having a (again only projections on how guys look at college) shutdown type CB aside from McCourty would be huge.  I would use Bodden as the CB who can match with those TEs or RBs coming out of the backfield and be close to the line in run support (Chung's role while he's been playing that nickel role) While McCourty and Jenkins or Harris man the other side. 

    Again I see a lot of improvement in Arrington but is he going to be that X factor?  He will be solid but not a probowler. 

    mb makes a good point as well, Warren coming back improves a very good DL.  Weston is also back, rook 7th rounder but he's got the size to hold the edge.  There are also a few DEs in the 2nd that could be upgrades IMO from what we have and I wouldn't say the same for CBs.  Having a 1st rnd talent CB is big for a team that spends more than 50% of snaps in subpackages.

    I would be more willing to go into next season with the current DL with Warren back than with current CBs (more to do with Butler and Wilhite) with Bodden back.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Faucet, I'm not against drafting a DE, OLB or OL in Rd 1, though I still think they go BPA (which could be CB) vs. an assumed need pick.  I disagree that taking a CB would result in a 2 down player while selecting a DE would automatically result in a 3-4 down player.  The argument that applies for Bodden coming back also applies to Ty Warren.  Also, who's to say that Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris, or another CB they identify couldn't come in and replace Bodden and be an everydown player and provide a bigger impact than any DE that's available with their pick?  I agree with your point around them taking a safe (likely starter) pick in Rd 1 which is why I go with BPA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I don't think Ty Warren is the same argument as Bodden coming back.  Gerard Warren is on a one year deal.  He is 32 and is nearing retirement.  Assuming we bring him back it would likely be for a 1 year deal, 2 max at his age.  The two Warrens play the same position, LDE.  It is the RDE position where Brace/Deaderick/Wright (for the 4-5 games he's healthy) play that needs the major upgrade.

    With 3 picks in the top 33, I guess we can afford the luxury of a 3rd CB somewhere in there.  Personally though, I'd rather go with one at 64/76 and address, DL, OL and OLB first.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Faucet MB, I think what's really interesting about this is that how many teams can have fans arguing about two "areas that need improvement" that at worse if nothing else happens they would be better than most other teams already without adding a possible 1st or 2nd rounder to it.

    I mean what a freaking job BB has done to this point.  To the Warren point, very valid Faucet. 

    Are there any FAs that we should be looking at?  I really haven't looked at a FA DE or FA 34OLB.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    OLB FA
    David Hawthorne, SEA
    – At 25, Hawthorne is another one of the league’s emerging linebackers. He’s relatively unknown, but was outstanding in Lofa Tatupu’s absence a year ago. Racking up 117 tackles, 4 sacks, 8 stuffs, and 3 interceptions, it wouldn’t be surprising to see a team make a big play at Hawthorne and the throw the bank and pry him from Seattle via restricted free agency.
    David Harris, NYJ – Though Harris is one of the league’s best, young linebackers, the Jets may just not have the money to pay him. They’re looking at extensions to Revis, Mangold, and Ferguson in the next 2 years, in addition to a pair of free agent receivers and nearly acquired Antonio Cromartie. They’ll most likely make Harris one of their top priorities after the big 3, but Harris may be able to get more money elsewhere if he isn’t tagged. We’ll see what he decides.
    Lamarr Woodley, PIT – Woodley has developed into the league’s best left outside linebacker, forming a terrifying tandem in Pittsburgh. The two have accounted for 50 combined sacks over the last 2 years. With that in mind, Pittsburgh won’t let Woodley get away.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Defensive Lineman FA
    Ray Edwards, MIN
    - Edwards made a name for himself with a 3-sack game against Dallas in the Divisional Round, but that was simply an exclamation point of a terrific season. Is his production a product of having 3 Pro Bowlers playing next to him? Edwards was tendered with a 1st round tag this year and it doesn’t seem teams are willing to take that risk quite yet. If he repeats his performance, or improves upon it, next year will be much different. The Vikings will have to pay a steep price to keep him.
    Tamba Hali, KC – It took some time for Hali to make the conversion to outside linebacker, but after making the successful transition, it seems that Tamba Hali is due for another contract in Kansas City. He’s still a long reach from being an elite player, but he’s consistent with still some upside.
    Marcus Spears, DAL – Spears had a mildly disappointing season last year and was outplayed by backups at times. It should come as no surprise that the Cowboys reportedly tried to move him in the offseason. If the same trend continues where one of their backups truly emerges, the Cowboys may have few problems in allowing Marcus Spears to walk.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    Faucet MB, I think what's really interesting about this is that how many teams can have fans arguing about two "areas that need improvement" that at worse if nothing else happens they would be better than most other teams already without adding a possible 1st or 2nd rounder to it. I mean what a freaking job BB has done to this point.  To the Warren point, very valid Faucet.  Are there any FAs that we should be looking at?  I really haven't looked at a FA DE or FA 34OLB.
    Posted by Pats7393

    I know, isn't it awesome??  Other fans should be so lucky.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Still early for me to get in on this conversation as I have yet to edit any of the all-22 films on any of this years prospects but speaking on the current patriots roster I can give my 2 cents.

    Defense:

    CB
    Someone mentioned CB needs by using the use of chung or another safety at times in that role as an excuse the corners need to be upgraded. I disagree with that logic.

    The patriots use the safeties more if they are in a sub package that calls for it because they do not have the beef up front, instead using the better pass rushers, therefore requiring the better run support from the extra safeties over CB's. That's not a direct indictment on the CB play.

    Bodden played excellent last year in this defensive system and there is no reason to think that would not be the case again.

    Arrington, Butler, Wilhite have all played ok, especially Arrington. I think the only reason Arrington plays over Butler is that Butler has all the skill but , to me, plays soft. He doesn't seem very physical or aggressive. He doesn't seem to be involved enough in supporting the run or do a good enough job of rerouting receivers or interrupting timing.  Just an opinion.

    S
    Chung, Sanders, Meriweather, McGowen, Page, Barret, Lockett, Brown... Full house here. Any of these guys contracts up this year?

    DL
    Ty Warren being back "HEALTHY" will be huge IF he's feeling it and plays like his old self. He was playing on half a hip for like 2 and a half years. Ty was extended in his contract before Seymour and a year or two before Ty's contract was up because when he was healthy he was grading out better than Seymour.Unfortunately its a big IF as no one can know how he'll rebound from surgery and being older.

    Have no idea how GWarren is grading this season or if he wants to still play and loves NE. If NE does go on to win a superbowl this year, an older player like him would have filled that need/want/goal and most often times be fine with moving on to a losing team for one last final pay day.

    Then you have a ton of guys like Brace, Deaderick, Wright, Pryor, Love, Richard, Weston. These guys are improving, getting attention from the staff and for that getting playing time. Are any of them a Suh or Seymour no but are there any of those with that talent AND character available in the mid 1st round this year? Probably not since those guys typically go in or near the top 5.

    Unfortunately we don't get to see these guys practice day in and day out and you make your evaluations on everything, practices, film room, weight room, games, etc. So we will have no idea if a guy in the mid 1st round this year is worth those millions when we got a guy near the top of 2nd  2years ago who has 2 years experience in the NFL in the Pats defensive system.

    OLB
    This position needs help. ...but we've been saying it for years. It simply must be far too difficult to project to warrant taking someone that high. I get the feeling it is considered a big gamble in BB's mind most of the time trying to determine an "impact" guy in his 3-4 scheme.

    I like Cunningham a lot because he's a dirt dog like Sanders at safety. Just my opinion is that you could really use a real dynamic player at that position in BB's scheme. So the position still bothers me. I said even when TBC had 10 sacks all against the worst pass blocking lines in the NFL that season he is not a starter and well he lost his job.

    Actually none of the three, Cunningham, Ninkovich, or TBC are consistently good against the run. Which is another reason they play more safeties than corner backs at times in sub packages. It's a problem in my opinion. They need to find at least one dynamic 3 down OLB who can both anchor the outside containment on a run as well as give an OC fits getting after the QB.

    That's not to say I don't like Ninkovich either. He's another patriot dirtdog and loved the way he ran down Hester on that return at Chicago. Was surprised the announcers didn't mention it.

    ILB
    The linebackers look solid but having to let the kid go from the practice squad to go be closer to home for his family might have them looking again for depth. Especially if Spikes continues to be a knucklehead.

    Offense:

    OL
    I could see them taking a couple of linemen in the 5 picks. I truely belived the rumors of the Patriot heavy interest in Pouncey last year.

    Neil is a FA and since he almost retired and had to get IR'd because his body did not hold up this season I can see him retiring.

    Mankins can go either way, and the Patriot OL state of affairs as a whole may play a big role in if the Patriots bend a little bit in Mankins direction. I can also see him taking the route of other pst players if the Pats win a SB this year. Got rings will take Max money.

    They have Connelly and he's played very well but let's face it he's not as good as Neil or Mankins.

    Koppen isn't getting any younger and Light is a FA and is another player who could do the last deal shuffle if the Pats win a SB. I can also see the Patriots giving him another 2 year deal or a Neil deal like they for Neil this season. People love to trash Light but I have no problem with him except he's aging now.

    That leaves them with a couple of young guys on the inside in Ohrnberger and Wendell but I have no idea what they think of them. On the outside you have Ojinaka, and Vollmer obviously. Both young. You also have Kaczur, if healthy, and LeVoir. Both a bit older.

    From an outsiders perspective, they seem to need help here due to age and contract.

    QB
    Set at both start and backup but will most likely pick one up late or FA as they do every year because you never know.

    TE
    Not sure what Crumplers status is in age or contract but they would appear to be ok here unless Crumpler is done. If no Crumpler you need the same role refilled from somewhere.

    WR
    They're all back and would be set at this point. Only see a drafted one if he's BPA at some round and better than a player or two on the roster. Its all very clear to us by now that the Pat WR needs brains, heart, hands, and quickness. Not necessarily in that order. Seems to be another difficult position to project into the route sight adjustment schemes the patriots like to run.

    RB
    Add youthful depth. What is the contract status of Faulk, Taylor, Morris?

    One thing is for certain. The Patriots will make every attempt to sure up the questions/holes they have in FA based on their own grades after self evaluating.  These always enter the draft in a position of strength, even if it is only perceived by the other organizations.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    IQ,

    A couple of things.  McGowan and Page are free agents after this season.  Meriweather and Sanders are free agents after 2011.  Chung is weak in coverage.  I wouldn't say S is a full house.

    Neil is actually signed through 2011, but I agree, he probably hangs them up.  His shoulder has been an issue for awhile.  The Pats certainly have the money to extend Mankins and I believe the sides were close.  But, the Pats seldom overpay yet Mankins play is off-the-charts.  I think they get a long term deal done.  The OL has actually been a strength this year.  I would not be against giving Light a 1-2 year deal and let him retire a Patriot.  He deserves it.  Kaz could be tried at OG.  Still, I like the idea of drafting a C/OG fairly high this year to have some solid depth.

    Crump has another year left.  I think he is one of the main reasons our OL has been so good protecting Brady.  I could see him coming back next year but think we should find a blocking TE late in the draft.

    Branch is playing great but lets not forget, he's pretty fragile and he's 32.  I think a big, fast, tough WR would be a nice compliment or another route runner to groom behind Branch.  There are options all the way through the first 4 rounds.

    Faulk, Morris and Taylor's contracts all expire after this season as does BJGE.  Woodhead was extended through 2012 already.  I'd like to add a bruiser or a dynamic back and say goodbye to the others.

    I couldn't agree more on the DL.  We should address it first.  I'm rethinking that maybe we can get JJ Watt without giving up the farm. 
     
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