2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : You ask and you shall receive:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOx7bqKP4m0 I've touted Robert Sands and Tyler Sash (both have declared) for a while now and I'm in agreeance that quality safety depth, preferably someone with coverage skills and excellent instincts is needed.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Mb,

    What do you think of Kenny Tate?  My brother is very high on him and has him in his top 32 as CDS's top rated Safety.  He seems to have the Rodney Harrison build.  Personally I'd rather see us go after a FS since Chung appears to be our enforcer, perhaps a Rahim Moore.  Actually I just checked and some sites have Tate listed as a FS.  

    Sash would be a nice late round addition but I think I like the kid from Nebraska better, Hagg.  The couple of games I saw he was always making plays.  He's a bit slow but he's a player, a guy that maybe you use in sub packages on a speedy TE sorta like we used to do with Rodney, a hybrid LB/SS type covering the TE in the slot.  I wouldn't touch him before the 6th though.   
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Did Andrew Luck declare for the draft?  I can't find confirmation anywhere.

    http://www.gbnreport.com/

     
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : That's certainly a fair point and one I knew you or someone would make.  I look at Watt and he just looks big.  Sure he could be 6-5 which would be fine.  But I think he's bigger than 292.  I think he's 300 and would be shocked if he came in under 290.  If he does, than it probably changes my thinking on him.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Personally, I hope both measure out on the high end as I think both would make a big impact along the DL.  My next mock will have the ole Jordan or Watt at #17, pending further info on both.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Did Andrew Luck declare for the draft?  I can't find confirmation anywhere. http://www.gbnreport.com/  
    Posted by PatsFanGermany[/QUOTE]
    Nope, Luck announced he was staying in a week or so ago.  Nick Fairley just announced he's entering the draft.  I think Gabbert is the best QB now followed by Mallett, Locker then Newton but I wouldn't be shocked if Carolina took Newton #1.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Personally, I hope both measure out on the high end as I think both would make a big impact along the DL.  My next mock will have the ole Jordan or Watt at #17, pending further info on both.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I'd rather grab Aldon Smith or Brandon Harris at 17 and take a DL like Wilkerson, Taylor, or Ballard at the end of the second round. It wouldn't be too surprising if Bailey is available at our late second round pick..
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Nope, Luck announced he was staying in a week or so ago.  Nick Fairley just announced he's entering the draft.  I think Gabbert is the best QB now followed by Mallett, Luck then Newton but I wouldn't be shocked if Carolina took Newton #1.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
    Locker could always make a recovery before the draft. He'd do well under Shanahan.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Mb, What do you think of Kenny Tate?  My brother is very high on him and has him in his top 32 as CDS's top rated Safety.  He seems to have the Rodney Harrison build.  Personally I'd rather see us go after a FS since Chung appears to be our enforcer, perhaps a Rahim Moore.  Actually I just checked and some sites have Tate listed as a FS.   Sash would be a nice late round addition but I think I like the kid from Nebraska better, Hagg.  The couple of games I saw he was always making plays.  He's a bit slow but he's a player, a guy that maybe you use in sub packages on a speedy TE sorta like we used to do with Rodney, a hybrid LB/SS type covering the TE in the slot.  I wouldn't touch him before the 6th though.   
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet,
    I just watched some tape on Tate.  He has a really good size (6-4 220) speed combo and looks to have some pretty good fluidity/quickness for his size.  He showed some versatility by lining up in the slot, down in the box and in the deep half in cover-2, the latter showing his ability to read, react and close down hill quickly and securely (for the most part) while taking good angles to the ball.  I'd like to see his ability to read and track deep balls as well as his ability to open his hips and run with receivers, but he Looks like an impressive player and is prob a rd 1-2 kid.

    I watched an interview with him as well, he seems like a down to earth, humble kid from a good home/background.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I'd rather grab Aldon Smith or Brandon Harris at 17 and take a DL like Wilkerson, Taylor, or Ballard at the end of the second round. It wouldn't be too surprising if Bailey is available at our late second round pick..
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    I like both Wilkerson and Ballard, though I think both could be top 50 picks meaning they'd have to trade up or down in Rd 2 to get one.  Wilkerson in particular might make his way into round 1.  The kid is huge, strong at the POA and has shown the ability to make plays behind the LOS with 9.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL this season.  He looks like an ideal 3-4 DE prospect at this point.

    At this point, I still prefer Watt or Jordan at #17 with Wilkerson as a 1st round wildcard.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Hey been away for a while, trying to get back into it.

    What do you guys think about drafting in the 2nd Martez Wilson, listed as a ILB which is what he played as in 2010 but was a OLB/DE before moving inside.  6'4" 250+ estimated to run sub 4.6 40.  From what I've read he has good instincts and plays hard every snap. 

    He could be IMO to OLB and can also be depth inside if Spikes gets in trouble again.  He missed all but 1 game in 2009 with a neck injury so I think he should be available late in the 2nd round.

    He could play all 4 LB positions plus be able to play SPs with that speed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_kX-cfzjjw&feature=related
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I like both Wilkerson and Ballard, though I think both could be top 50 picks meaning they'd have to trade up or down in Rd 2 to get one.  Wilkerson in particular might make his way into round 1.  The kid is huge, strong at the POA and has shown the ability to make plays behind the LOS with 9.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL this season.  He looks like an ideal 3-4 DE prospect at this point. At this point, I still prefer Watt or Jordan at #17 with Wilkerson as a 1st round wildcard.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I think someone will be available at the end of the second round. The talent is certainly there to be selected earlier, but there just isn't the demand for these kind of players to meet up with the supply. At 17, our first round pick, and 33, we'll have pretty much the choice of who we want at DL. At our second round pick, the choice is slimmer, but there'll probably be a half dozen of those players i mentioned still available. And at that point, we'd have already drafted 3 impact players in the top 33, preferably CB, RB, and OLB, Brandon Harris/Brandon Burton/Aaron Williams, Mikel Leshoure/Mark Ingram, and Aldon Smith/Justin Houston.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    With all the injuries on our DL we have still been competitive because of the successful infusion of youth to our defence. We have gone from one of the oldest defences in the league to one of the youngest, and will only get better with experience. This leaves me only to question why almost everyone is only interested in adding high profile defensive linemen. Right now our OL is in the same place our defence was in three years ago, among the oldest in the league and need an immediate infusion of quality youth. You can not expect to replace too many players at one time without damaging the cohesive bonds that have been developed over years of playing together. So we must look at immediate needs first and plan additions when the first additions have acclimated to our system. So lets look at our Needs on the OL.
    M. Light will be 33 in June and has no contract for next season.
    L. Mankins will be 29 in March and currently has no contract.
    D Koppen will be 32 in Sept.
    S. Neal will be 35 in October is constantly injured and wants to retire.
    N. Kazzur will be 32 in July.

    We took one step forward with S. Vollmer. But with out Vollmer our starting line up averages over 32 years old and is on the brink of falling apart due to age and contracts. IS THIS WHAT YOU EXPECT TO PROTECT BRADY AND BLOCK FOR YOUR RB IN THE NEAR FUTURE?  First we must buy some time by resigning Mankins at all cost even if it means using the franchise tag to buy one more year.  Next we must draft Lights replacement in a high enough slot to be starting by mid season next year. If this means moving Vollmer to left and getting a RT so be it. We must also find a High Quality OG to replace Neal with enough talent to replace Mankins in the future. This would give us a transitional line of LT Vollmer, LG Mankins, C Koppen, RG Connoly and Draft Pick, RT Kazzur and Draft Pick. This would give us a good start towards a seamless transition to youth on the OL without making too many changes too fast and effecting the precision of the groups effectiveness. If we wait beyond this year their may be too many changes without seasoned veterans to bring in the new generation of OL. So what are the options of these needs? At OT The ideal height to get the length of arms to keep DE or OLB off their body should be 6'7" or 6'8", and weight to not get pushed around by bigger DE's should be in the 315 to 330 range.  They must also have the agility of a smaller OT to be successful in run blocking, so this cuts down an already limited field. I believe this limits us to three candidates,
     1) Nate Solder 6'8" 315
     2) Anthony Castonzo 6'7" 308
     3) Gabe Carimi 6'7" 327
    Of the three Gabe Carimi fits the qualifications most fully and is projected to be around at the 28th pick. I would keep an eye on the needs of teams in that area to see if moving up a few slots with our 32nd. pick is necessary to get him. This pick is necessary to keep this offence operating at a high level into the future.                                                                                                          At OG the height restrictions should be no more than 6'4" so that it is more difficult for stout NT's,DT's, or DE's to get under their pads and gain leverage on them.  Also they must be in the weight range of 310 to 320 to avoid being pushed around by large DL, but not too heavy to be effective in the run game.
    I believe this limits us to Three possibilities:
     1)Mike Pouncey 6'4" 310
     2)Benjamin Ijalana 6'4" 320
     3)Stefen Winaiewski 6'3" 306 OG/C
     My best pick to fill all requirements would be Benjamin Ijalana, and if we are lucky he could still be on the board at our first pick in the 3rd. no. 74. But if we see the OG's moving quicker than projected I would take him at no. 64 our second pick in the 2nd. rd.

    This would still give us pick 17 and 33 to get your high profile DE and OLB.

    With this in mind here is my adjusted draft:

    Pick 17: Aldon Smith or Akeem Ayers OLB
    Pick 32: may require a slight move up. Gabe Carimi OT 6'7" 327
    pick 33: Quinton Carter FS 6'1" 200 4.57
    Pick 64: Benjamin Ijalana OG 6'4''320
    Pick 74: Kenrick Ellis DT/DE 6'5" 340 5.07
    Pick 96: Delone Carter RB 5'9" 315 4.52
    Pick 128: Greg Romeus DE/OLB 6'5" 268 4.79
    Pick 160: Jake Kirkpatrick C 6'3" 305 5.14
    Pick 187: Derrick Locke RB 5'9" 190 4.36 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I think someone will be available at the end of the second round. The talent is certainly there to be selected earlier, but there just isn't the demand for these kind of players to meet up with the supply. At 17, our first round pick, and 33, we'll have pretty much the choice of who we want at DL. At our second round pick, the choice is slimmer, but there'll probably be a half dozen of those players i mentioned still available. And at that point, we'd have already drafted 3 impact players in the top 33, preferably CB, RB, and OLB, Brandon Harris/Brandon Burton/Aaron Williams, Mikel Leshoure/Mark Ingram, and Aldon Smith/Justin Houston.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    True 3-4 DE types are in high demand due the increasing amount of teams that are installing that scheme. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Pats , I watched that clip of Wilson and I just dont get it. I didnt think he looked good at all. He never wrapped up, kept trying to knock the ball carrier down with a block. I hate it when our DBs do that and dont think Ive ever seen a LBer do that. He also looked slow getting to the ball carrier , there where one or two instances where he ended up tackling thin air. Lastly he seemed weak, he and number 44 collide a couple of times and Wilson went backward. Aside from that he wasnt too bad...lol
     
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    I like your draft part timer, but would try to get Powell at 74 and Herzlick at 96
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]I like your draft part timer, but would try to get Powell at 74 and Herzlick at 96
    Posted by maxnsl[/QUOTE]

    Currently Bilal Powell's stock has dropped severely to around 163 overall and 16th for RB's, even with the additions of the underclassmen this drop has me a little suspicious. If this continues you may be able to get him as an UDFA.  And Mark  Herzlick's stock has been constantly rising contrary to what i feel comfortable with because of the health problems in his history. Currently he is rated 50th. overall and 5th. with OLB's.  Even if I valued his skillset I would not reach into the top 50 for him, too much risk.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]With all the injuries on our DL we have still been competitive because of the successful infusion of youth to our defence. We have gone from one of the oldest defences in the league to one of the youngest, and will only get better with experience. This leaves me only to question why almost everyone is only interested in adding high profile defensive linemen. Right now our OL is in the same place our defence was in three years ago, among the oldest in the league and need an immediate infusion of quality youth. You can not expect to replace too many players at one time without damaging the cohesive bonds that have been developed over years of playing together. So we must look at immediate needs first and plan additions when the first additions have acclimated to our system. So lets look at our Needs on the OL. M. Light will be 33 in June and has no contract for next season. L. Mankins will be 29 in March and currently has no contract. D Koppen will be 32 in Sept. S. Neal will be 35 in October is constantly injured and wants to retire. N. Kazzur will be 32 in July. We took one step forward with S. Vollmer. But with out Vollmer our starting line up averages over 32 years old and is on the brink of falling apart due to age and contracts. IS THIS WHAT YOU EXPECT TO PROTECT BRADY AND BLOCK FOR YOUR RB IN THE NEAR FUTURE?  First we must buy some time by resigning Mankins at all cost even if it means using the franchise tag to buy one more year.  Next we must draft Lights replacement in a high enough slot to be starting by mid season next year. If this means moving Vollmer to left and getting a RT so be it. We must also find a High Quality OG to replace Neal with enough talent to replace Mankins in the future. This would give us a transitional line of LT Vollmer, LG Mankins, C Koppen, RG Connoly and Draft Pick, RT Kazzur and Draft Pick. This would give us a good start towards a seamless transition to youth on the OL without making too many changes too fast and effecting the precision of the groups effectiveness. If we wait beyond this year their may be too many changes without seasoned veterans to bring in the new generation of OL. So what are the options of these needs? At OT The ideal height to get the length of arms to keep DE or OLB off their body should be 6'7" or 6'8", and weight to not get pushed around by bigger DE's should be in the 315 to 330 range.  They must also have the agility of a smaller OT to be successful in run blocking, so this cuts down an already limited field. I believe this limits us to three candidates,  1) Nate Solder 6'8" 315  2) Anthony Castonzo 6'7" 308  3) Gabe Carimi 6'7" 327 Of the three Gabe Carimi fits the qualifications most fully and is projected to be around at the 28th pick. I would keep an eye on the needs of teams in that area to see if moving up a few slots with our 32nd. pick is necessary to get him. This pick is necessary to keep this offence operating at a high level into the future.                                                                                                          At OG the height restrictions should be no more than 6'4" so that it is more difficult for stout NT's,DT's, or DE's to get under their pads and gain leverage on them.  Also they must be in the weight range of 310 to 320 to avoid being pushed around by large DL, but not too heavy to be effective in the run game. I believe this limits us to Three possibilities:  1)Mike Pouncey 6'4" 310  2)Benjamin Ijalana 6'4" 320  3)Stefen Winaiewski 6'3" 306 OG/C  My best pick to fill all requirements would be Benjamin Ijalana, and if we are lucky he could still be on the board at our first pick in the 3rd. no. 74. But if we see the OG's moving quicker than projected I would take him at no. 64 our second pick in the 2nd. rd. This would still give us pick 17 and 33 to get your high profile DE and OLB. With this in mind here is my adjusted draft: Pick 17: Aldon Smith or Akeem Ayers OLB Pick 32: may require a slight move up. Gabe Carimi OT 6'7" 327 pick 33: Quinton Carter FS 6'1" 200 4.57 Pick 64: Benjamin Ijalana OG 6'4''320 Pick 74: Kenrick Ellis DT/DE 6'5" 340 5.07 Pick 96: Delone Carter RB 5'9" 315 4.52 Pick 128: Greg Romeus DE/OLB 6'5" 268 4.79 Pick 160: Jake Kirkpatrick C 6'3" 305 5.14 Pick 187: Derrick Locke RB 5'9" 190 4.36 
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]

    I think this makes a lot of sense...at least the part regarding the OL. I think we have the ammo and right slotting this year to grab 2 OL if need be...a C/G and RT/LT. I know everyone says "just move Vollmer over to LT and everything will be fine", but can he really play LT or are we just assuming? That takes me to my point..which is, if Vollmer is really just (and I don't mean "just" as bad) a RT, then we need to grab a LT, and good LT's go early, as in Carimi. He would be my pick to replace Light if we had to. In terms of C/G, Wieniewski is my pick. I like him in either the C or G position better than Pouncy or Ilijama, and he is insurance for Mankins & Koppen. We know Connolly can play and I think he can man Neals' spot next year, but if Mankins goes, all of a sudden we are thin at G. A lot depends on what we do with Mankins...I for one say sign the guy, or just tag him..we need to lock him up for next year at least.

    Hopefuly some of this will be figured out by draft day, that would make the picking that much easier in terms of Light, Mankins and Neal. That's potentially 3 starting linemen to replace all at once....no easy feat. (sorry Rex).

    Personally, I would like to see us trade #17 if Watts,  BHarris or JJones are not there. I'm a Jordan fan and have been chatting him up on this board, but I'm reconsidering taking him at #17 to play DE in our 3-4. He might just be a bit too small and not worth the #17 pick.
    I think there are 3 players I would take at #17 (not counting others as they will be long gone), if not there, I would trade down into the 20's and nab a 2nd next year possibly...those 3 are JJ Watt, BHarris and JJones.

    Assuming we have something in the mid-20's and our 32 (or whatever it is), I like drafting Carimi in the mid-20's. 32 is a tough choice...trade into the 2nd, or pick?...Personally, I'd like to see us use 32, and trade #33 for a 2nd/3rd next year plus a 2nd this year, somewhere in the early 40's. Same with #64 possibly.

    So, if things go similar to the way I noted above, and JJWatt, BHarris or JJones are not there at #17, I trade it down and my draft for 2 rounds looks like this...

    #mid-20's - Carimi (assumes we don't sign Light), We could even take Wiesneskwi a bit early at 20 somehting if we dont' do anything with Mankins. I think mid-20's is a decent spot for either of these guys. 
    #32 - Houston (like him opposite Cunningham rather than Ayers, Wilson or others noted here)
    #mid-40's - Wilkerson (he will be the 3-4 DE we seek..right sized) 
    #64 - Broyles (takes over for branch after next year) I like him, Welker, Price..relegate Tate to ST's, WR depth.

    3rd Round - Depends on what we do with the mid-20's pick, if it's Carimi or Wiesneski...We draft the opposite in a RT or C/G. Ilijana should be there at #74

    --also acquired a 2nd rounder in 2012 for #17 trade down in round 1, and another 2nd rounder in 2012 for trading out #33.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    I believe the Pats will either go OLB or OT with the 17th pick (unless a trade down).  There are too many DE that do not fit what BB is looking for in a DE/DT (6-4 300 lb) except for Dareus or Fairely which are too far out of reach for the Pats to move up.  So this is how I see it:

    1) A Ayers OLB - He is the most complete OLB, can rush, cover, and secure the POA.  BB loves flexibility, with Ayers he will have it.

    1a) C Hairston OT - has the height and size BB loves.  Good pass blocker, even better run blocker and very athletic.

    2) R Williams RB - There is a very high chance that this pick will be traded (about middle of 2nd round).  Williams is a RB with good speed, quickness, and has good hands.  He is a great compliment to BJGE's power game. 

    2a) C Bowling OG/OT - He is an OL that will play OG in the NFL (played OT & OG on both sides).  He plays in the SEC so he has played against the best DL's in college.  He is in the Mankins mold (size) with the same mean streak.

    3) K Ellis DT/DE - He is a beast of a player.  He is huge (6-4 1/2 340 lbs) but is very quick for his size.  His problem is his maturity, big V will need help him a lot in this area.

    3) B Boykin CB - He could be the biggest "sleeper" CB in the draft.

    4) A Binns WR - He is a taller reciever (6-2 1/2) with good speed and has good ball skills.  He could be the next "red shirt" WR because he needs to work on getting separtion for BB.  A lot to work with.

    5) Duenta Williams S - would have been one of the top S's in the draft if not for an injury in his bowl game.  Draft and place on IR.  He will be a steal for the 2012 season.

    As of right now, I do not believe the Pats have a 6th or 7th round pick because of the Maroney trade (6th included), and 7th included in the Moss trade.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    I sure wish BB would pay us all for breaking down indivigual players and if he can't pay in money then send playoff tix,please....
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Question on JJ Watt: how much different/better would he be over Mike Wright?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOx7bqKP4m0&NR=1
    Cameron Jordan highlights.

    Looks like a good, quick instinctive player with good DL moves.

    However, seems to be a tweener. Not big enough to be a 3-4 end, not fast enough to be an OLB.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet, Here are a few youtube link on Jordan. Not an extensive amount of film on him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzIVTNoQHHA
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]


    First let me say I am a Cameron Jordan fan in general BUT...

    90% of this video is NOT highlights or special plays IMO.

    Examples:

    Getting a sack because the other side of the D-line collapses the pocket and makes the QB turn and run into you is not impressive.

    Getting a sack because the outside guys collapse the pocket and force the QB to run forward into you is not impressive.

    Recovering a fumble that bounces into your arms after one of your teammates does the tough job of strip sacking the QB is not impressive.

    Getting a sack because you are unabated to the QB because your d-coordinator blitzs more guys than the O-line can pick up sending you in untouched is not impressive.

    Getting close to the QB along with the rest of the D-line on a screen play and forcing an errant throw is not impressive.

    His overall athletic ability for a big man is impressive.

    His relentlessness to go until the play is over is impressive.

    When the video maker (and this is not jordans fault) adds the same highlight from 3 different angles into the same video to try and make the player appear more impressive is not impressive.


    Some things I would want to see from ANY DE prospect that I would consider impressive.

    Anchoring against a double team on a run play. Immoveable and clogging up your lane.

    Fighting through a double team to get the QB pressure or sack on a pass play.

    Bull rushing the pass blocker to the point of practically lifting him up off his feet with the better tech and leverage and driving him back into the QB.

    Engaging the pass blocker and using a counter move to get around the blocker instead of stale-mating.

    Beating your O-line block, taking on the lead blocker of the run and shedding the block to make a tackle for loss.


    Those are the type of plays I want to consistently see from a Pats DE prospect.

    The D-linemen have to play their lanes, get there fits and be disciplined in the Pats style 3-4. They are almost always mano-e-mano or worse and rarely if ever get a free release to the QB becaue of blitzing schemes.

    If you can't find ways to adequately see a player in the correct situations and circumstances you are left with too much projection and might ultimatley end up with a vernon gholston.


    By the way, to remind everyone, I am not saying Jordan doesn't or can't do all the things I would find impressive. Only that this film  has few of those.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : I think this makes a lot of sense...at least the part regarding the OL. I think we have the ammo and right slotting this year to grab 2 OL if need be...a C/G and RT/LT. I know everyone says "just move Vollmer over to LT and everything will be fine", but can he really play LT or are we just assuming? That takes me to my point..which is, if Vollmer is really just (and I don't mean "just" as bad) a RT, then we need to grab a LT, and good LT's go early, as in Carimi. He would be my pick to replace Light if we had to. In terms of C/G, Wieniewski is my pick. I like him in either the C or G position better than Pouncy or Ilijama, and he is insurance for Mankins & Koppen. We know Connolly can play and I think he can man Neals' spot next year, but if Mankins goes, all of a sudden we are thin at G. A lot depends on what we do with Mankins...I for one say sign the guy, or just tag him..we need to lock him up for next year at least. Hopefuly some of this will be figured out by draft day, that would make the picking that much easier in terms of Light, Mankins and Neal. That's potentially 3 starting linemen to replace all at once....no easy feat. (sorry Rex). Personally, I would like to see us trade #17 if Watts,  BHarris or JJones are not there. I'm a Jordan fan and have been chatting him up on this board, but I'm reconsidering taking him at #17 to play DE in our 3-4. He might just be a bit too small and not worth the #17 pick. I think there are 3 players I would take at #17 (not counting others as they will be long gone), if not there, I would trade down into the 20's and nab a 2nd next year possibly...those 3 are JJ Watt, BHarris and JJones. Assuming we have something in the mid-20's and our 32 (or whatever it is), I like drafting Carimi in the mid-20's. 32 is a tough choice...trade into the 2nd, or pick?...Personally, I'd like to see us use 32, and trade #33 for a 2nd/3rd next year plus a 2nd this year, somewhere in the early 40's. Same with #64 possibly. So, if things go similar to the way I noted above, and JJWatt, BHarris or JJones are not there at #17, I trade it down and my draft for 2 rounds looks like this... #mid-20's - Carimi (assumes we don't sign Light), We could even take Wiesneskwi a bit early at 20 somehting if we dont' do anything with Mankins. I think mid-20's is a decent spot for either of these guys.  #32 - Houston (like him opposite Cunningham rather than Ayers, Wilson or others noted here) #mid-40's - Wilkerson (he will be the 3-4 DE we seek..right sized)  #64 - Broyles (takes over for branch after next year) I like him, Welker, Price..relegate Tate to ST's, WR depth. 3rd Round - Depends on what we do with the mid-20's pick, if it's Carimi or Wiesneski...We draft the opposite in a RT or C/G. Ilijana should be there at #74 --also acquired a 2nd rounder in 2012 for #17 trade down in round 1, and another 2nd rounder in 2012 for trading out #33.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Broyles is going to stay at Oklahoma
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    If someone can post the link to a good video on Akeem Ayers I would be much appreciated.

    I just watched two... vs Stanford, vs Temple.

    From those two examples I simply do not get the hype. Maybe they are just two bad examples?

    All his tackles are mostly down field with the occasional TFL when he goes in unblocked. Here again though, those are not impressive to me and I expect any player to make a play when he goes in unblocked.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    watched a bunch of vids on Kerigan.

    He's like the same on every play. Motor going,just solid and very consistent play after play after play.

    Talks Patriot speak in his interviews.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOx7bqKP4m0&NR=1 Cameron Jordan highlights. Looks like a good, quick instinctive player with good DL moves. However, seems to be a tweener. Not big enough to be a 3-4 end, not fast enough to be an OLB.
    Posted by pats-fan-2007[/QUOTE]

    i agree. nwe needs someone who can create pressure even on a three man rush. that means he would have to be around 310 lbs (sey or suh would be the yardstick). as the OLs get bigger, i think you could 315 if the kids has speed and agility. unfortunately, most of teh DEs coming out, i think, are 4-3s.

    if there is the right guy in this year's draft, he'd be gone before the 10th pick.

     

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