2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    to all you guys here,
      how many rookies do you think could make our squad? would a large net (many picks) approach be practical if we can't bring in 10 more rookies?
    and if not, i would love to either use the later round picks (4th rd on) to package and move up wherever we need to this year and or add picks up 1 round next year. how does this affect your preferred draft?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]This is a shocker to me but Adam Schefter tweets that Von Miller is a top 5 pick.  I'm not that big on the guy. Thoughts?......now don't be shy!
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE

    He's too small IMO to even be considered by 34 teams although the coach of the Bills thinks he will be great in either system.  If he goes top 5, or even top 16, that drops someone else to us.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : If Jordan goes before 17, then either JJ Watt or Julio Jones might be there at 17.  Rumor is Dallas will take one of the top OTs.  I thought they might be interested in Robert Quinn, so Quinn could be there too.  At least 2 of the top 3 OTs should be there as well.  A case could be made for any of these players. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    ok so faucet, if jj, julio, and 2 of the three OT's, who do you target. do you pick the "best" player or the position we most need relative to how long we can wait to fill our other top needs. 
     in the above scenario you suggest possible, who do you pick?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    By Greg A. Bedard Globe Staff / January 28, 2011
     
    MOBILE, Ala. — It’s fairly obvious that the Patriots need to do something to improve their pass rush. Sure, it was decent in games when they jumped out to big leads, but when they needed it, pressure was lacking in big spots — specifically in the playoff loss to the Jets.

    And it put a great deal of pressure on the secondary, which ranked among the bottom of the league in third-down conversions and completion percentage.

    Don’t forget, a defensive end (Mike Wright) led the team with 5 1/2 sacks — and he missed the final six games with a concussion.

    So what will the Patriots do?

    We’ll ignore free agency for now; with no collective bargaining agreement, there’s no point in addressing it.

    One AFC scouting director said he expects the Patriots, with two picks in each of the first two rounds of the draft, to take an approach similar to the one they did last year at tight end when they drafted Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez.

    “When you have multiple picks like that, you can throw numbers at the problem, take some risk for high reward,’’ the scouting director said. “Gronkowski had the back, Hernandez the drug thing. You figure one is going to hit. Both did for them and look what happened. You’d figure they would try that again with pass rush.’’

    The Patriots could use help at both end and outside linebacker. The consensus at the Senior Bowl is that it’s a very good year for 3-4 ends, an average year on the outside.

    “You can get ends up and down the draft,’’ said an NFC assistant director of college scouting. “Then you have to figure out what you’re looking for.’’

    The depth is clear, especially on the North squad. Cal’s Cameron Jordan (6 feet 4 inches, 287 pounds) is nearly unblockable.

    “He really impressed me,’’ said Boston College offensive tackle Anthony Castonzo. “He’s real strong to go with some good moves and speed. A really good player.’’

    Several scouts compared Jordan to former Patriot Adalius Thomas because of his versatility and skill set. Thomas didn’t work out long-term in New England, but Bill Belichick obviously likes that type of player. Jordan is a young, moldable player who will stay within the scheme.

    Iowa’s Christian Ballard (6-5, 288) has versatility but might be more of an end.

    “He’s a good player that is long and plays with a high motor,’’ Castonzo said. “I went a lot against him at guard and he was tough.’’

    The opinions are split on Purdue’s Ryan Kerrigan (6-4, 263). Some scouts think he can play linebacker in the 3-4 with some work; others feel he’s strictly a 4-3 end.

    “In the NFL, the 3-4 outside backer is someone who gets after the quarterback,’’ Kerrigan said. “I feel like I can do that, and when it comes to dropping in coverage, I’m working on that right now in my combine training. And I’m willing to work tirelessly at getting good at that as well.’’

    Other top rushing linemen at the Senior Bowl are Jarvis Jenkins (Clemson), Pernell McPhee (Mississippi State), Phil Taylor (Baylor), Cedric Thornton (Southern Arkansas), and Pierre Allen (Nebraska).

    As for the linebackers, there’s no disputing the top player: Texas A&M’s Von Miller. He may be just 6-2 1/2 and 237 but no scout disputed he will be a 3-4 outside backer.

    “And he’ll be long gone before the Patriots pick at 17,’’ said the AFC scouting director. “A phenomenal athlete who will test off the charts at the combine.’’

    If a team like the Patriots prefers bigger outside linebackers, the success of Clay Matthews of the Packers and others has altered that thinking.

    “I want to be the first defensive player taken off the board, regardless of category,’’ Miller said.

    While the other top 3-4 outside linebackers will be underclassmen, Brooks Reed (Arizona) and K.J. Wright (Mississippi State) are promising.

    Reed is very strong at 6-2 1/2, 257, and has good explosion off the ball. Wright is long-limbed at 6-3 and 246, and played in a passive read-and-react system. He needs to be coached up but has a high ceiling if someone can get him to turn it loose.

    The Patriots may have some issues with their pass rush but help should be on the way come the end of April.

    “They put themselves in good position for this draft,’’ the AFC scouting director said. “They have plenty of ammunition to get it done.’’

    Greg A. Bedard can be reached at gbedard@globe.com. Follow him on Twitter @greg_a_bedard.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : ok so faucet, if jj, julio, and 2 of the three OT's, who do you target. do you pick the "best" player or the position we most need relative to how long we can wait to fill our other top needs.   in the above scenario you suggest possible, who do you pick?
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]
    I honestly don't know sitting here today.  My pre-draft favorite has been Watt for some time now but there's an outside chance he could slide close to the 28 range.  I'm not a huge Solder fan as I think he is a little too tall with short arms and was beaten several times at the Sr.B practices.  I love Castonzo and Carimi and either would be fantastic choices.  I love Julio's game and toughness and drool over the idea of Brady throwing to him. 

    I think a lot will depend on what happens with Mankins and Light.  If there is a lock out and it extends past the draft, we likely won't know the answers to what happens because there will be no free agency period starting March 3.  Regardless, Light will be 32 and he has always struggled with speed rush.  Carimi or Castonzo are safe picks in a need area regardless. 

    I like Moffitt in the 2nd round, maybe would trade 33 down 10 spots or so.  Don't think we can get Moffitt at 60.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]By Greg A. Bedard Globe Staff / January 28, 2011   MOBILE, Ala. — It’s fairly obvious that the Patriots need to do something to improve their pass rush. Sure, it was decent in games when they jumped out to big leads, but when they needed it, pressure was lacking in big spots — specifically in the playoff loss to the Jets. And it put a great deal of pressure on the secondary, which ranked among the bottom of the league in third-down conversions and completion percentage. Don’t forget, a defensive end (Mike Wright) led the team with 5 1/2 sacks — and he missed the final six games with a concussion. So what will the Patriots do? We’ll ignore free agency for now; with no collective bargaining agreement, there’s no point in addressing it. One AFC scouting director said he expects the Patriots, with two picks in each of the first two rounds of the draft, to take an approach similar to the one they did last year at tight end when they drafted Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. “When you have multiple picks like that, you can throw numbers at the problem, take some risk for high reward,’’ the scouting director said. “Gronkowski had the back, Hernandez the drug thing. You figure one is going to hit. Both did for them and look what happened. You’d figure they would try that again with pass rush.’’ The Patriots could use help at both end and outside linebacker. The consensus at the Senior Bowl is that it’s a very good year for 3-4 ends, an average year on the outside. “You can get ends up and down the draft,’’ said an NFC assistant director of college scouting. “Then you have to figure out what you’re looking for.’’ The depth is clear, especially on the North squad. Cal’s Cameron Jordan (6 feet 4 inches, 287 pounds) is nearly unblockable. “He really impressed me,’’ said Boston College offensive tackle Anthony Castonzo. “He’s real strong to go with some good moves and speed. A really good player.’’ Several scouts compared Jordan to former Patriot Adalius Thomas because of his versatility and skill set. Thomas didn’t work out long-term in New England, but Bill Belichick obviously likes that type of player. Jordan is a young, moldable player who will stay within the scheme. Iowa’s Christian Ballard (6-5, 288) has versatility but might be more of an end. “He’s a good player that is long and plays with a high motor,’’ Castonzo said. “I went a lot against him at guard and he was tough.’’ The opinions are split on Purdue’s Ryan Kerrigan (6-4, 263). Some scouts think he can play linebacker in the 3-4 with some work; others feel he’s strictly a 4-3 end. “In the NFL, the 3-4 outside backer is someone who gets after the quarterback,’’ Kerrigan said. “I feel like I can do that, and when it comes to dropping in coverage, I’m working on that right now in my combine training. And I’m willing to work tirelessly at getting good at that as well.’’ Other top rushing linemen at the Senior Bowl are Jarvis Jenkins (Clemson), Pernell McPhee (Mississippi State), Phil Taylor (Baylor), Cedric Thornton (Southern Arkansas), and Pierre Allen (Nebraska). As for the linebackers, there’s no disputing the top player: Texas A&M’s Von Miller. He may be just 6-2 1/2 and 237 but no scout disputed he will be a 3-4 outside backer. “And he’ll be long gone before the Patriots pick at 17,’’ said the AFC scouting director. “A phenomenal athlete who will test off the charts at the combine.’’ If a team like the Patriots prefers bigger outside linebackers, the success of Clay Matthews of the Packers and others has altered that thinking. “I want to be the first defensive player taken off the board, regardless of category,’’ Miller said. While the other top 3-4 outside linebackers will be underclassmen, Brooks Reed (Arizona) and K.J. Wright (Mississippi State) are promising. Reed is very strong at 6-2 1/2, 257, and has good explosion off the ball. Wright is long-limbed at 6-3 and 246, and played in a passive read-and-react system. He needs to be coached up but has a high ceiling if someone can get him to turn it loose. The Patriots may have some issues with their pass rush but help should be on the way come the end of April. “They put themselves in good position for this draft,’’ the AFC scouting director said. “They have plenty of ammunition to get it done.’’ Greg A. Bedard can be reached at gbedard@globe.com . Follow him on Twitter @greg_a_bedard .
    Posted by Rocky[/QUOTE]
    Rocky, 

    Thanks for sharing.  Cameron Jordan is the real deal.  The Sr.B practices really turned me on to him.  But he's likely gone by 17.  A player of interest could be Robert Quinn.  Because he was suspended all of last season he isn't likely going to be considered by the Pats but he could drop pretty far like we saw last year with Dez Bryant.  A safer pick could be JJ Watt at 17 if we are going Defense first and not looking to take one of the top OTs.  Kerrigan is a safer bet for a 43 team looking for a rush DE.  I was really impressed with Brooks Reed and he should be available with our late 2nd as should KJ Wright.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    thanks rocky, i read that too. 
    any thoughts about it?

    so faucet, i'm hearing the jury is out about 17 esp waiting for the cba and what happens with mankins and light. doenst seem like they let mankins go. if they dont sign him i'm guessing we tag him and have him for a year (which he will hate, but does he have a choice?) of course i would sign him. you need some vets, hes tough, he gets the job done, he fires up the other guys on o line. light is ok for a backup, but i've heard so many references to "turnstile". we need mankins plus 2 other top guys i think. and we need that pass rush however, and wherever, f.a.  1st round, 2nd round,etc. gotta have ace d lineman and olb.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    thanks rocky, i read that too. 
    any thoughts about it?

    so faucet, i'm hearing the jury is out about 17 esp waiting for the cba and what happens with mankins and light. doenst seem like they let mankins go. if they dont sign him i'm guessing we tag him and have him for a year (which he will hate, but does he have a choice?) of course i would sign him. you need some vets, hes tough, he gets the job done, he fires up the other guys on o line. light is ok for a backup, but i've heard so many references to "turnstile". we need mankins plus 2 other top guys i think. and we need that pass rush however, and wherever, f.a.  1st round, 2nd round,etc. gotta have ace d lineman and olb.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I honestly don't know sitting here today.  My pre-draft favorite has been Watt for some time now but there's an outside chance he could slide close to the 28 range.  I'm not a huge Solder fan as I think he is a little too tall with short arms and was beaten several times at the Sr.B practices.  I love Castonzo and Carimi and either would be fantastic choices.  I love Julio's game and toughness and drool over the idea of Brady throwing to him.  I think a lot will depend on what happens with Mankins and Light.  If there is a lock out and it extends past the draft, we likely won't know the answers to what happens because there will be no free agency period starting March 3.  Regardless, Light will be 32 and he has always struggled with speed rush.  Carimi or Castonzo are safe picks in a need area regardless.  I like Moffitt in the 2nd round, maybe would trade 33 down 10 spots or so.  Don't think we can get Moffitt at 60.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    i think dallas' statement about wanting to fix their OL is a big deal. if indeed dallas picks an OT that would trigger a run on OTs. if this happens, none of the top 5 OTs will be there at 28.

    nwe has to decide how much they need an OT. if that's the case and dallas says the said move, then the pats would hard pressed not to take an OT at 17.

    OS where do you get  a DL whic I htink is also an important hole now.  You are right, Watt could slide, but probably not beyond 23. I am now looking at Wilkerson again if he could be that DE.

    assuming pats keep all the picks, i would also be tempted to pick up the ex-fireman. from the senior bowl reviews, he could be a good addition to teh DL.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : i think dallas' statement about wanting to fix their OL is a big deal. if indeed dallas picks an OT that would trigger a run on OTs. if this happens, none of the top 5 OTs will be there at 28. nwe has to decide how much they need an OT. if that's the case and dallas says the said move, then the pats would hard pressed not to take an OT at 17. OS where do you get  a DL whic I htink is also an important hole now.  You are right, Watt could slide, but probably not beyond 23. I am now looking at Wilkerson again if he could be that DE. assuming pats keep all the picks, i would also be tempted to pick up the ex-fireman. from the senior bowl reviews, he could be a good addition to teh DL.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    Seattle, I don't agree.  You have to look at the teams between Dallas (9) and NE (17).  Only one of them, WAS (10) needs a LT.  Washington really needs a QB so I think they go that route first.  Look at the teams between WAS (10) and NE (17).   You have HOU (11) Duane Brown, MIN (12) Bryant McKinnie, DET (13) Jeff Backus, STL (14) Rodger Saffold, MIA (15) Jake Long, JAX (16) Eugene Monroe.  I don't see any of these teams taking a left tackle, so it would take two teams trading ahead of NE to get them both assuming Dallas takes the first one.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]thanks rocky, i read that too.  any thoughts about it? so faucet, i'm hearing the jury is out about 17 esp waiting for the cba and what happens with mankins and light. doenst seem like they let mankins go. if they dont sign him i'm guessing we tag him and have him for a year (which he will hate, but does he have a choice?) of course i would sign him. you need some vets, hes tough, he gets the job done, he fires up the other guys on o line. light is ok for a backup, but i've heard so many references to "turnstile". we need mankins plus 2 other top guys i think. and we need that pass rush however, and wherever, f.a.  1st round, 2nd round,etc. gotta have ace d lineman and olb.
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]
    Yes, I think the jury is out on 17 but I think there is a short list of possibilities.  If I was Vegas and had to set odds, I might do something like this.

    JJ Watt 3:1
    Anthony Castonzo 5:1
    Gabe Carimi 6:1
    Cameron Jordan 10:1
    Julio Jones 12:1
    Akeem Ayers 13:1
    Ryan Kerrigan 14:1
    Von Miller 20:1

    I would be very surprised if we don't pick one of the above.  People talk about Von Miller being top 5.  Boy, I don't know.  First off, he's undersized at 6-2, 237 to play 34 OLB.  Assuming teams can live with this you have to find a team with OLB as a pretty high need.  Teams have need at OLB, like CAR, BUF, ARI, CLE, SF, DET, STL and NE.  The issue is, all of these teams except NE have higher needs. 

    CAR will either take Bowers or Fairley if they don't take a QB
    BUF will take Fairley, a QB or Peterson before they consider Miller
    ARI needs a QB bad.  I can't see them passing up one
    CLE needs a WR and Green is likely their choice
    SF needs a DT bad, Dareus would seem their choice
    DET is dying for a CB so Amukamara makes the most sense
    STL needs a WR so Julio Jones seems like a better fit

    Teams that finish poorly tend to address top needs first.  I really could see Miller slipping to 17 and if he does, would BB pull the trigger on a kid that falls well below his normal size requirements?  Who knows?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Seattle, I don't agree.  You have to look at the teams between Dallas (9) and NE (17).  Only one of them, WAS (10) needs a LT.  Washington really needs a QB so I think they go that route first.  Look at the teams between WAS (10) and NE (17).   You have HOU (11) Duane Brown, MIN (12) Bryant McKinnie, DET (13) Jeff Backus, STL (14) Rodger Saffold, MIA (15) Jake Long, JAX (16) Eugene Monroe.  I don't see any of these teams taking a left tackle, so it would take two teams trading ahead of NE to get them both assuming Dallas takes the first one.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    that's right, dallas (let's say they pick solder) may be the only one to pick an OT before the 17th. if the pats chooses not to pick an OT at 17 (say they pick Watt), ind, phi, nyg, and perhaps seattle (to play opposite okung) will likely go after the top OTs. new orleans could also pick an OL, but perhaps they will get a G.

    if that scenario plays out, castonzo, sherrod, smith and carimi will all be gone at 28. as far as i know thre would be a big drop after that. pats would then be pushed to a corner - either sign light or HOPE tha there's another value OT in the second or third.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I'm sure BB will just take the best available player on the board. Whether its OL, DL, or DB. I think Julio Jones would provide a huge downfield threat. I would consider him more of a luxury pick then a need.One can only dream.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I'm sure BB will just take the best available player on the board. Whether its OL, DL, or DB. I think Julio Jones would provide a huge downfield threat. I would consider him more of a luxury pick then a need.One can only dream.

     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : that's right, dallas (let's say they pick solder) may be the only one to pick an OT before the 17th. if the pats chooses not to pick an OT at 17 (say they pick Watt), ind, phi, nyg, and perhaps seattle (to play opposite okung) will likely go after the top OTs. new orleans could also pick an OL, but perhaps they will get a G. if that scenario plays out, castonzo, sherrod, smith and carimi will all be gone at 28. as far as i know thre would be a big drop after that. pats would then be pushed to a corner - either sign light or HOPE tha there's another value OT in the second or third.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    Now that I agree with.  If we don't land a stud OT at 17, chances are they will all be gone before 28.  However, I like Sherrod at RT.  He could be had perhaps at 33.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : that's right, dallas (let's say they pick solder) may be the only one to pick an OT before the 17th. if the pats chooses not to pick an OT at 17 (say they pick Watt), ind, phi, nyg, and perhaps seattle (to play opposite okung) will likely go after the top OTs. new orleans could also pick an OL, but perhaps they will get a G. if that scenario plays out, castonzo, sherrod, smith and carimi will all be gone at 28. as far as i know thre would be a big drop after that. pats would then be pushed to a corner - either sign light or HOPE tha there's another value OT in the second or third.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    I have a couple thoughts about drafting OT's

    #1 - If it looks like Mankins isn't going to resign they might be more willing to grab a top end G early and resign Light. If this is true look for more of project T later on in the draft

    #2 - How they feel about Vollmer. True that there is a big difference between the top T's who can play LT but if you are moving Vollmer to LT there are a good number of RTs which can be found between rnd 2-4. Namely Joseph Barksdale, Darius Morris, Marcus Gilbert

    #3 - How Kaczur recovers. Again if you move Vollmer to LT you can take a risk on a later round RT and train him while Kaczur handles most of the duties

    #4 - best available vs need. It's hard to say that BB always goes for best available given that he's drafted somewhat for need recently. Pass rush is a big need and if a top rushing DE is available to replace Seymour that might be more valuable at 17 then a T

    #5 - the FA market. There are some good T's coming onto the market that we can offer Light's contract to. Namely Tyson Clabo and Ryan Harris for example

    The more I think about it the more I realize we have a ton of options if we decide not to take a T early verses maximizing the pick value (ie trading back for multiple picks) or getting a DE, OLB, G/C early

    With the teams you listed

    ind - They are going to want to protect Manning but does Manning want better weapons first? We all know Manning runs the show and it was clear he did not approve of the WR play at all. However, if they were smart they'd find a way to show up their D first and fore most. I'd look for them to go for either DL, CB, or WR before they grab a T

    phi - they now have Vick and getting him protection as well as a run blocker imo will be their priority. I agree they go after a T here

    nyg - thy need a T but they need their image back even more. The Giants have alway been known for their D and they need to rebuild starting there. I expect thm drafting someone for thefront 7 here (replacement for either Kiwanuka or Cofield)

    sea - they need everything. But since they don't have a long term solution at QB why start investing on the OL? If one of the top 4 QB's drops they might bite. They are the wild card and can either way but since they need to continue to get their fan base excited I think they go for a flashy big name pick either QB, RB, or LB.

    past 28 the only real teams I can see taking a T are

    Chi - they desperately need one and could grab one here

    Packers - they need help on the line so another T or G could go here

    Jets - Have other needs before a T

    Pitt - needs line help but if brother Pouncey is there I expect him to be their pick

    To me I think 3 T's will be taken in the 1st round letting 1 of the big 4 T's make it to the 2nd round
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Eng,

    If Mankins doesn't resign, there is one guy I love to replace him and it's no secret, and that's John Moffitt.  Not only is the man mean and nasty, he is a cool dude and funny.  Teammate Carimi and he would be perfect since they have such familiarity with each other and a comfort level.  Danny Watkins is another guy, who although 27 before the start of 2011, could potentially play up to near Mankins' standards. 

    Keeping Light for a year or two might make sense if he stays for reasonable cash but the only reason he made the Pro Bowl this year is Crumpler and Gronk helping him out.  He can be upgraded and at 32, he should be upgraded.  Vollmer upgrades him so if we want to focus on other areas, fine.  We get get a new RT and I too like Gilbert on the cheap or Sherrod a little earlier. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    ian rappaport (a smart writer i respect)and others say mankins believes he will not be signed. rappaport also believes he will not be given a long term block buster deal.  i dont know why? i would. i dont know who would be a better anchor for our line. he's 30, usually healthy and makes every one better, more nasty, and others have fun on the line when he is there. however mankins also made clear, i think, that he will be pissed if they franchise him, and they'll see what they get if that happens (paraphrasing).

    i don't see the upside of trading him or franchising and keeping him.

    i think we need 2 great o lineman and mankins so as to not get dominated any more by the best d-lines.

    even more important is a consistent successful pass rush.

    if there is no cba before the draft, i feel it is even more imperative to get these 3:  the best o lineman, the best pass rusher, and a stud d lineman even if we have to trade up. if there is a cba, whatever we can pick up in re to these 3 makes getting the rest easier.

    and the filling of the 2nd  offensive lineman; the 3 down big, breakaway back; cornerback, free safety; and the big tall, sure handed wide receiver.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    hey faucet, 
    if mofffitt is the 2nd offensive lineman we take in the draft (and esp if he is the second coming of mankins in disposition and ability), i hope we pick him earlier than he is expected to go, so nobody snaps him up from us.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]ian rappaport (a smart writer i respect)and others say mankins believes he will not be signed. rappaport also believes he will not be given a long term block buster deal.  i dont know why? i would. i dont know who would be a better anchor for our line. he's 30, usually healthy and makes every one better, more nasty, and others have fun on the line when he is there. however mankins also made clear, i think, that he will be pissed if they franchise him, and they'll see what they get if that happens (paraphrasing). i don't see the upside of trading him or franchising and keeping him. i think we need 2 great o lineman and mankins so as to not get dominated any more by the best d-lines. even more important is a consistent successful pass rush. if there is no cba before the draft, i feel it is even more imperative to get these 3:  the best o lineman, the best pass rusher, and a stud d lineman even if we have to trade up. if there is a cba, whatever we can pick up in re to these 3 makes getting the rest easier. and the filling of the 2nd  offensive lineman; the 3 down big, breakaway back; cornerback, free safety; and the big tall, sure handed wide receiver.
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]

    Best O-lineman: Stefen Wisniewski
    Best pass rusher: Aldon Smith
    Stud D-lineman: Phil Taylor, Muhammed Wilkerson, Jarvis Jenkins, Kenrick Ellis
    2nd O-lineman: Joseph Barksdale
    CB: Brandon Burton, Curtis Brown, Aaron Williams
    Breakaway back: Mark Ingram, Mikel Leshoure, Delone Carter, Jamie Harper, Kendall Hunter, Bilal Powell
    FS: No thank you
    WR: If it ain't Julio Jones then FA (Chad Johnson) or no one
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    hey kyle thanks for your thoughts,
     1.) you want to keep meriweather? (i think he's a huge problem; athlete with little upstairs and prone to many errors that help cost games)
     2.) where do you take these players in the draft (the tricky part)

    thanks for identifying where you see the talent in those positions.

    peace,
    cb
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucet, although I too like Watkins, turning 27 before the season is a bit too old to me to draft unless he falls to the much later rounds.  You just dont get enough years of service from him. 
    I still like the idea to taking a Watt/Jordan at 17 and with 28 trading up to 18-20 and grabbing an OT with 33 grabbing an OLB like Smith or Houston and with out late 2nd grabbing Moffit.  If we ended up like that, I would be so happy no matter who else we got. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    My concern about OTs is where they project to play. Obviously LTs are more important than RTs. This is why I think Light gets re-signed. I would not want the Pats to draft an LT who turns out to be a turnstile for quick DEs and OLBs (Freeney, Wake etc.....). They can still draft an LT; I still think light is good insurance and depth. Which offensive linemen we draft will depend on input from Scarnecchia and whether or not Mankins stays.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]My concern about OTs is where they project to play. Obviously LTs are more important than RTs. This is why I think Light gets re-signed. I would not want the Pats to draft an LT who turns out to be a turnstile for quick DEs and OLBs (Freeney, Wake etc.....). They can still draft an LT; I still think light is good insurance and depth. Which offensive linemen we draft will depend on input from Scarnecchia and whether or not Mankins stays.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    The problem with that is Light is going to get 5mil or so a year, want probably 3-4 yrs on a contract.  If u keep Light, u have a 1st rd guy sitting on the bench and wasting away.  So we need to either grab a 1st rd guy and let him play or keep light and take a later guy to develope.  I still vote for a 1st rd LT that can also play RT hopefully and we can see who is the better fit where between the rookie and SeaBass.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Matchups to watch

    Scouts Inc.ESPN.com

    MOBILE, Ala. -- Now that the practices are over, here are some matchups to watch for at Saturday's Senior Bowl.

    North OT Nate Solder (Colorado) vs. South OLB Von Miller (Texas A&M)
    This won't be an every-down matchup with Miller playing OLB, but the South coaches will let him showcase what he does best and let him get after the QB. Solder has been the best offensive tackle here this week. We've been impressed with his power base as a run blocker and the way he's moved his feet as a pass blocker, but he hasn't faced an edge rusher as explosive as Miller yet. One of our concerns coming into the week with Solder is that he's shown an inconsistent kick step and he won't be able to get away with sloppy footwork against Miller. Solder, 6-foot-8¼ and 314 pounds, has nearly six inches and 77 pounds on Miller, who is 6-2⅜ and 237 pounds. The trick for Miller is to use his quickness with both his hands and his feet to prevent Solder from getting into his body. They are the two best players here and, as a talent evaluator, it doesn't get any better than a couple times we'll see them go head-to-head.

    North WR Titus Young (Boise State) vs. South CB Shareece Wright (USC)
    This has the North's quickest offensive skill player going up against the South's quickest defensive skill player. The big question here is can Wright show consistent technique and diagnostic skills to keep up with Young, who has proven to be a very difficult WR to match up against. Young runs crisp routes in the short-to-intermediate passing game. He seems to have the advantage in technical and mechanical areas. Wright has the quickest feet and most fluid hips of the South DBs and has the natural ability to hold his own in this matchup. But Young is a savvy and confident route runner and is capable of getting Wright turned around. Young can also Wright to open his hips before he should and taking advantage of him with double moves. Wright also has to be wary of making a mistake and letting Young catch the ball with a little separation or a crease because while Young isn't a burner, he gets up the field in a hurry.

    North RB Demarco Murray (Oklahoma) vs. South MLB Kelvin Sheppard (LSU)
    The biggest concern we have about Murray is that he runs high and doesn't have a thick base. He very quick to the hole, but doesn't have a second gear to get through and bounce it outside. Where Sheppard should excel is between the tackles. He put on weight and is better at taking on and shedding blockers. Sheppard should have no problems meeting Murray in the hole, stopping his momentum and getting him to the ground. He's been a very reliable tackler all week. Where Murray could have the advantage is in the passing game. Murray is the most complete pass-catching running back in this game. He's savvy with his routes and does a great job with fakes, sticking his routes, making tight cuts and he should create some separation against Sheppard, who has limitations in space.

    South OT Derek Sherrod (Miss State) vs. North DE Cameron Jordan (Cal)
    There were a lot of different views on Sherrod coming into this week, but it's now fairly evident he's in the second to third tier of tackles. He's big (6-5⅜ and 312 pounds), but he wasn't overpowering or pancaking guys like Solder or Wisconsin's Gabe Carimi. He does have good strength, but the biggest reason he's not among the upper tier of tackles is he has trouble shuffling his feet or resetting. He's just not a great athlete or natural knee bender. We notice he struggles any time he is forced to shuffle laterally and/or reset his feet. Once he gets set, he likes to stay where he is but if he has to shuffle and reset, he is really limited. If he was going against Miller, Miller would make him look silly with his speed and athleticism. But what makes this matchup intriguing is Jordan is not an elite speed rusher so it gives Sherrod a a chance to get set. He has to prove that he's capable of holding up against Jordan's quickness, especially Jordan's quick hands. Jordan proved to us this week that he is a viable threat as a left defensive end in a 4-3 front to provide pass-rush pressure even though he doesn't have top-end speed to consistently turn the corner. The way he does it is with a quick first step, exceptionally violent and effective hand usage and a motor that never quits. So we'll be watching to see if Sherrod is able to get set and reset against Jordan, who will always be moving.

    South WR Leonard Hankerson (Miami) vs. North Kendric Burney (N Carolina)
    Hankerson surprised us this week. He was consistently catching the ball and noticeably more polished with his routes. While he doesn't have great top-end speed, he is good at getting in and out of his breaks and setting up defenders. That could come into play on Saturday. Burney is a decent athlete with good movement skills, but he had problems giving up leverage at times and being out of position. Burney needs to be patient, avoid getting over aggressive, and stay in solid position. It will be a very interesting battle when the ball is in the air because Hankerson, who caught everything this week and snatched it away from his frame, was good at catching the ball in traffic. At 6-2, 205 pounds, is much bigger than the 5-9, 181-pound Burney. Burney shows great ball skills, tracks it well and goes up to get it, but we'll see if he can counter Hankerson's size. Will Hankerson box him out or shield him using his big frame? Or will Burney be able to get in position, then stay in between the ball and Hankerson?

     
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