2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : You are right. It's really hard to pass on that kind of depth and talent at CB. But I don't think you draft that high to move one of your budding stars or a high draft pick to only play half the downs. If you look at the high picks BB has made in his career they all have one thing in common. They all replaced a backup player with a 4 down player. Replacing 1 4 down player with another just seems like a waste when you can have the chance to put in a 4 down player in either the lines or the OLB. However, I do like the idea of moving Bodden to FS if it were possible. It would solve a couple of problems and would make room to have a rotation of McCourty, Bodden, X-CB, and Meriweather (if he's still around). That would keep them fresh and make our secondary a great strength. Assuming that Bodden can move to FS and CB in a rotation while keeping McCourty and X-CB on the field for 70% of the snaps I'll be more then happy selecting an elite CB early. However, if Bodden wouldn't be able to move over then I'd much rather upgrade the Dline or OLB. Don't forget our pass rush is kinda weak and a great pass rush can make up for a weaker secondary. But an elite secondary can't always provide enough coverage for a weaker pass rush.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Bodden would need to move, reason I think Bodden could actualy do that and be a good FS is his cover skills size, speed and tackling abilities.  He also understands the system very well.  I think it would be a pretty good secondary if you draft one of the two top CBs.

    Bodden Chung as safeties
    McCourty, Amukamara outside and butler weatley as nickle. 

    For the OLBs, I will wait until the season is done before I say we need a stud OLB.  Right now Cunnigham and Crable look to be getting better everygame specially Cunningham setting the edge against the run.
    Crable is a guy with speed to be an effective 3rd down rusher and Nink is holding his own.   I think they will be ok here for DL, those guys have been doing a really good job so far and will only improve with more time as a unit.

    1a. Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 200 another McCourty type CB, 4 down player has great ball skills.  It gives a new look to NE CBs, taller bigger. 
    1b. Jeremy Beal OLB 6'3" 260 I'm not convinced we'll need to spend a high pick on a OLB, watch Cunningham and Nink the rest of the year.  If there's a need to get a stud I think Beal could be that guy.
    2a. Matt Reynolds OT 6'6" 325 (Junior) He may be a 1st rounder but I would not mind him slipping if there's a run on D players or QBs.  A few places has him ranked as the top Junior tackle in the country.
    2b.  Kenny Tate FS 6'4" 220 (Junior) converted WR, only 3 years of S experience but looks and plays the part.  He's a Junior and might now declare but he's stock is on the rise.  Another 4 down player.
    3a. Jarvis Jenkins DT/DE 6'4" 315 Very agile for a 315 pounder, could help at DE although Deadrick might proof to be a starter yet. 
    3b. John Moffitt G/C 6'5" 320 Will add depth and give BB another versitile inside guy.  Has played both guard and center
    4 Brandon Saine RB 6'0" 220 speedy RB who will deliver a hit on tacklers.  Can be spread out wide and has the speed to move with CBs and beat LBs.
    6 Kris Adams WR 6'3" 195 player to develop, probably a PS for a year or two.  Needs to polish routes.
     
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    If we don't take a cb early one S to keep an eye on is Jeron Johnson. He's not as fast as Meriweather but he takes great angles and is very solid in fundamentals, ie tackling, reading routes. He just has a high football IQ. Someone that could become a CB/S like what Meriweather was suppose to become.

    The only weakness I can see which does hurt him is that he isn't very explosive and is a bit slow for a S (high 4.5's low 4.6's range). But he does have good instincts for the ball and had 4 picks last year.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Faucet, Thanks!  I don't disagree on the Rodgers part and may eventually go that route before all is said and done.  I do think Woodhead has proved his worth thus far and could be a long term fix.  Schilling and Boling are both guys that I'm keeping an eye on, another guy that interests me is Keith Williams (6-5 310) the OG from Nebraska, most sites don't say much about him, but one site has him listed as the top interior OL available to this point in the season.  Does your bro have anything on him?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Mb,

    Just heard back from my brother on this.  Here is a report from one of his scouts....

    Coming into this season I didn't have Keith rated as pro-caliber, but after scouting 3-plus games he's clearly taken his game up a couple of notches and now is a legitimate prospect.  He's naturally huge and strong, and is a pretty good athlete with good quickness for a man his size.  As a run blocker, he more engulfs and smothers his man rather than driving him out, and though he gets off the ball well and gets to the second level, he'll have problems engaging moving targets.  As a pass blocker he can absorb and stone the bull rush, but is vulnerable to stunts, slants and quickness in general.  I see him as more of a RG prospect in the pros.  I'd put a 5th round grade on him now, but he has upside and can get better. 

    As far as him being the top interior prospect in the nation, I disagree; I don't think he's the top interior prospect on his team.  RG Ricky Henry is the best OL I've scouted this season (including OT's), but because he's strictly a guard, he won't go before the second round and would be the steal of the century in the third.  He's not quite as big as Williams, but is quicker and more athletic/agile.  What makes him special, though, is his explosive power.  While Williams ties up and neutralizes his man, Henry rocks back and buries his man, even in pass protection.  Adding to this is his attitude; he's not dirty but is downright MEAN and the toughest guy on the field.  In my opinion, a future All-Pro.  Hope this answers some questions.

    Adam Bendiksen

     
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    In the first couple of rounds, I like going heavy D - for top pick from Raiders - if Pete Peterson of LSU is there I am for picking him as MB and others have noted, but if not I would go DE - Cameron Heywood of Ohio State.  Also like Cameron Jordan of Cal.  Anyhow, either DB and DE or flip them with our 2 first round picks.

    Carolina second, which we own, looks like a high second and here I want OLB - Kerrigan or Quinn (stock may fall as he won't play this year probably), or Mark Herzlich of BC.  Botton of second round I want OL - what does anyone think/know about Justin Sherrod of Miss State?  6'5" and 305 lbs. I have high regard for him.  How about the guy from Pitt - Jason Pinkston - any thoughts about him?  Also, Kris O'Dowd a center from SoCal would be a good choice.  Any thoughts for OLmen in second or third rounds?
     
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    [QUOTE]Is it official we traded Denver's 4th and not our own? Everything I have read just says 4th round pick, no clarification.
    Posted by Asher77[/QUOTE]

    Sorry if this has been answered already.  We traded the better of our 4ths, whichever one it is.  Right now we all assume it will be Denver.  For those that keep mocking our 6th rounder, we don't have it.  We traded our 6th and Maroney for Denver's 4th which we then (presumptively) traded for Branch.  So, Branch cost us a 6th and Maroney.

    We should get a comp pick for Watson, I agree it will most likely be a 6th.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Bodden would need to move, reason I think Bodden could actualy do that and be a good FS is his cover skills size, speed and tackling abilities.  He also understands the system very well.  I think it would be a pretty good secondary if you draft one of the two top CBs. Bodden Chung as safeties McCourty, Amukamara outside and butler weatley as nickle.  For the OLBs, I will wait until the season is done before I say we need a stud OLB.  Right now Cunnigham and Crable look to be getting better everygame specially Cunningham setting the edge against the run. Crable is a guy with speed to be an effective 3rd down rusher and Nink is holding his own.   I think they will be ok here for DL, those guys have been doing a really good job so far and will only improve with more time as a unit. 1a. Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 200 another McCourty type CB, 4 down player has great ball skills.  It gives a new look to NE CBs, taller bigger.  1b. Jeremy Beal OLB 6'3" 260 I'm not convinced we'll need to spend a high pick on a OLB, watch Cunningham and Nink the rest of the year.  If there's a need to get a stud I think Beal could be that guy. 2a. Matt Reynolds OT 6'6" 325 (Junior) He may be a 1st rounder but I would not mind him slipping if there's a run on D players or QBs.  A few places has him ranked as the top Junior tackle in the country. 2b.  Kenny Tate FS 6'4" 220 (Junior)  converted WR, only 3 years of S experience but looks and plays the part.  He's a Junior and might now declare but he's stock is on the rise.  Another 4 down player. 3a. Jarvis Jenkins DT/DE 6'4" 315 Very agile for a 315 pounder, could help at DE although Deadrick might proof to be a starter yet.  3b. John Moffitt G/C 6'5" 320 Will add depth and give BB another versitile inside guy.  Has played both guard and center 4 Brandon Saine RB 6'0" 220 speedy RB who will deliver a hit on tacklers.  Can be spread out wide and has the speed to move with CBs and beat LBs. 6 Kris Adams WR 6'3" 195 player to develop, probably a PS for a year or two.  Needs to polish routes.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]


    Would love that draft with the exception of a RB instead of Tate in the 2nd rd.
     
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    [QUOTE]In the first couple of rounds, I like going heavy D - for top pick from Raiders - if Pete Peterson of LSU is there I am for picking him as MB and others have noted, but if not I would go DE - Cameron Heywood of Ohio State.  Also like Cameron Jordan of Cal.  Anyhow, either DB and DE or flip them with our 2 first round picks. Carlina second, which we own, looks like a high second and here I want OLB - Kerrigan or Quinn (stock may fall as he won't play this year probably), or Mark Herzlich of BC.  Botton of second round I want OL - what does anyone think/know about Justin Sherrod of Miss State?  6'5" and 305 lbs. I have high regard for him.  Hoe about the guy from Pitt - Jason Pinkston - any thoughts about him?  Also, Kris O'Dowd a center from SoCal would be a good choice.  Anythoughts for OLmen in second or third rounds?
    Posted by fyyankees[/QUOTE]
    Good call on O'Dowd.  I now have him as my highest ranked Center ahead of Penn State's Wisniewski.  I think O'Dowd could go late first but most likely early 2nd.  This is a full round up from where most people have him.  I'm pretty sure we'd never pull the trigger on a C that high though.  I keep going back to BB tendencies.  Koppen was a 5th round pick.  Most of our interior line in recent years have been late picks or undrafted free agents.  When BB has drafted OL in the first two rounds he's hit pay dirt each time; Light, Mankins, Vollmer.  Since we have 4 picks in the first two rounds and our OL is getting old, I could see him using one of those picks in 2011 but I think it would be for a OT, not an interior lineman. 

    If it were me, I'd want to make sure that all 4 of those picks are starters by year 2 and solid contributors in year 1 and that they are upgrades to who we have now.  Connolly can play center.  I might move him over in 2012 when Koppen's contract expires and draft a stud OG this year thinking that maybe this will be Neal's last year.

    Keep an eye on Ricky Henry from Nebraska.  Nobody is talking about him yet (See my recent post).  He's 6-4, 305 which is right about where our current guards are.  Condraft has him at #58 where most boards have him in the 7th-F/A.  I haven't watched him yet but he earned All Big 12 Honorable mention in 2009 starting 14 games at RG.  We need to start grooming Neal's replacement.  I found this cool article on Henry.  He and Suh apparently went at it as teammates every day last year.  If he can frustrate 2009 best Defensive linesman, Henry is worth a long look.

    Suh, Henry Benefit from Physical Grind of Intense Practices

    So what's the big difference in
    www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&SPSID=4&SPID=22&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=157537&Q_SEASON=2009">Ndamukong Suh from last year to this year? Is he faster? Yes. Stronger?
    Yes. Meaner? Yes. Tougher? Yes.Credit James Dobson for making the senior All-America defensive tackle faster and stronger. Nebraska's strength and conditioning coach found the right training mix to help Suh sculpt a leaner body at the same time he was developing more explosion in his feet and legs.Credit offensive right guard www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&SPSID=4&SPID=22&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=1515264&Q_SEASON=2009">Ricky Henry for making the nation's leading Outland Trophy candidate meaner and tougher.What was true in Nebraska's national championship years in the mid-1990s seems to ring true this year for at least two players in the trenches ... sometimes, perhaps even most times, Saturdays are easier than weekdays.And Suh knows why. His aggressive one-on-one battles with Nebraska's most physical offensive guard has created a love-hate relationship with the teammate who lines up across from him every day in practice.He loves Ricky Henry for making him meaner and tougher. But there are also daily doses of hatred buried in the midst of their unrelenting, oftentimes dramatic battles.Henry, you see, has the kind of nastiness that all offensive line coaches enjoy, and that includes Nebraska's Barney Cotton. "Ricky and Big Suh go at each other hard. They don't stop until the whistle blows," Nebraska assistant strength coach Chad Wade said before correcting himself. "Actually, they don't stop until they hear the echo of that whistle. That's why it's never boring to watch those two battle each other. It's all-out war every play, every day."That intense physicality has made Henry a highly effective first-year starter.And it's made Big Suh an even bigger star than he was a year ago.

    A late round gem who impressed me last week against UCLA was Oregon's LT Bo Thran.  He's 6-5, 295.  Akeem Ayers was lined up across from Thran for much of the first 3 quarters.  Thran just owned Ayers.  I though Ayers was an elite pass rusher and Thran basically nuetralized him.  Later in the game Ayers gave up and moved over to the other side but didn't do much over there either.  Thran has also played LG and RT which gives him the diversity that BB requires of his OL.  I don't consider Thran as a top prospect but he would be great value with our potential 6th round comp pick.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Mb, Just heard back from my brother on this.  Here is a report from one of his scouts.... Coming into this season I didn't have Keith rated as pro-caliber, but after scouting 3-plus games he's clearly taken his game up a couple of notches and now is a legitimate prospect.  He's naturally huge and strong, and is a pretty good athlete with good quickness for a man his size.  As a run blocker, he more engulfs and smothers his man rather than driving him out, and though he gets off the ball well and gets to the second level, he'll have problems engaging moving targets.  As a pass blocker he can absorb and stone the bull rush, but is vulnerable to stunts, slants and quickness in general.  I see him as more of a RG prospect in the pros.  I'd put a 5th round grade on him now, but he has upside and can get better.  As far as him being the top interior prospect in the nation, I disagree; I don't think he's the top interior prospect on his team.  RG Ricky Henry is the best OL I've scouted this season (including OT's), but because he's strictly a guard, he won't go before the second round and would be the steal of the century in the third.  He's not quite as big as Williams, but is quicker and more athletic/agile.  What makes him special, though, is his explosive power.  While Williams ties up and neutralizes his man, Henry rocks back and buries his man, even in pass protection.  Adding to this is his attitude; he's not dirty but is downright MEAN and the toughest guy on the field.  In my opinion, a future All-Pro.  Hope this answers some questions. Adam Bendiksen
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet,
    Great stuff!!  Oddly enough, I was thinking about adding Ricky Henry to my original question (there isn't much out about him either), glad the scout touched off on him as well.  As I've been looking to add an OG to my mock, he may now be the guy.
     
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    I hope that the Pats will have a shot at Patrick Peterson with the Raiders pick. He has the ability to impact the game in many different areas and that is what the Pats like in players. Amukamara wouldn't be a bad consolation prize either though. I don't think you could go wrong with either guy really. Like Mike said earlier in this post, the Pats like to go with the best player available, and with the Raiders pick, I think one of these two will be there. Hard to pass up.... Solid secondary for years to come with one of those two added to McCourty and Bodden. Maybe even Butler will come around, who knows.
     
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    [QUOTE]Love this thread.... Watched the UCLA-Oregon game with an eye on Akeem Ayers...he looked thin, pretty fast, but LOST during the game.....maybe it was just the opponent, but he was NOT very impressive! If the Pats score a top 8 pick from Oakland I would not hesitate to go with Dareus at DE...the guy is a stud, plays hard all the time, and knows the "5" technique after playing at "Bama, plus you cannot beat the fact he's playing against the best competition in the country week in and week out. I also think the Pats have to consider an OT or OT/OG multitasker with their own 1st round pick. There are several candidates to pick from that would become fixtures on the OL for years. DeQuan Bowers from Clemson at 3/4 OLB should be a consideration with the Carolina pick in the 2nd, that is IF he's still on the board. Once again, great thread... IT'S NEVER TO EARLY TO WORK ON THE DRAFT!
    Posted by jfaust1954[/QUOTE]
    I concur on Ayers.  I was not impressed at all watching him against Oregon.  He is certainly big and athletic but doesn't play with a nasty streak at all.  He failed to get pressure on the QB and was seldom involved in plays.  He was standing around most of the time at the end of the play.  There were a bunch of times he could have came in to help on a running play but didn't.  Of course when a team puts 60 up on you it can be deflating but I've taken Ayers off my board for now.

    As for Bowers, I've been thinking about him too purely as a pass rusher.  I think he will go mid 1st round.  He is probably best suited to remain a 43 DE.  In our scheme he'd most likely be a third down pass rusher.  At 271 he's about 20 lbs too heavy to fit our mold for OLB.  All of our LBs are in the 242 to 255 range.  I know Adalius Thomas was 270 but he was the exception, not the norm.  To spend a high pick on a sack specialist who sees maybe half your defensive snaps I don't think is worth the pick.  I was going to make a case for it because we need to be able to get more pressure on the QB but BB won't take him for this reason I'm pretty sure.

    I think you are on to something with Marcell Dareus assuming he comes out.  If he's there with our 1st pick late in the first round I might take him.  I don't think he gets much past 25.  Another guy to watch who's been brought up before is Nick Failey.  He had a monster game for Auburn yesterday.  He's a bit taller and leaner than Dareus but could have more upside and be had a little further down in the draft.  There are a bunch of potential 5 techs out there who I think we'd consider late first, early 2nd.
     
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    I think Patrick Peterson is at the top of my list for the Oakland pick, but I'm not optimistic he will be there. I truly believe Amukamara from Nebraska isn't in the same league as Peterson and is more in line with the lower 1st round prospects. His measureables are more impressive than his play....Justin Blackmon of Oklahoma State torched him yesterday...and he hasn't played the best WR's in the country...Peterson gives you the big play return ability, as well.

    I'm a big Marcell Dareus fan...the guy is moving up the boards fast...due to his skill and ability to play in 3-4 and 4-3 sets..he would be a great consolation prize if Peterson is off the board.

    Was excited to see Jeremy Beal play last night and he left me unimpressed. Would be interested in others takes from yesterdays college football...

     
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    [QUOTE]I think Patrick Peterson is at the top of my list for the Oakland pick, but I'm not optimistic he will be there. I truly believe Amukamara from Nebraska isn't in the same league as Peterson and is more in line with the lower 1st round prospects. His measureables are more impressive than his play....Justin Blackmon of Oklahoma State torched him yesterday...and he hasn't played the best WR's in the country...Peterson gives you the big play return ability, as well. I'm a big Marcell Dareus fan...the guy is moving up the boards fast...due to his skill and ability to play in 3-4 and 4-3 sets..he would be a great consolation prize if Peterson is off the board. Was excited to see Jeremy Beal play last night and he left me unimpressed. Would be interested in others takes from yesterdays college football...
    Posted by mcboyd22[/QUOTE]

    Not a good day from Amukamara and the rest of the Black Shirts for that matter.  However half of Blackmon's yards (he leads the nation in receiving yards and TD's) came on one 80 yard play where the entire Husker secondary bit on a flee flicker, they appeared to be in a cover two alignment and both safeties (who generally are responsible for the deep halves) bit on the run fake.  He did show elite recovery speed (see link below) on the play though but Blackmon made an excellent play on the ball. 

    Move to the 25 second mark of the below link:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?categoryId=2564308&id=5720154

    Blackmon was held to one catch for 3 yards in the 3rd quarter with the game still close then picked up a 25 yard TD with about a minute and a half left in the game with OSU down by 17.  I don't have vid of that play (or any of the Blackmon vs. Amukamara 2nd half match up for that matter) so I don't know what coverage/assignments were in play.

    I disagree that he's a lower 1st round prospect, he's a consensus top 5-10 prospect in this class.  I do agree that Peterson is the best CB available though.
     
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    I can't reiterate enough how much of a player Nick Fairley is. If anyone missed the Tiger Bowl, it was a close game, and Fairley was the difference maker. Three sacks, and one on the game's most crucial third down. It simply doesn't matter if Auburn's DB crew is suspect when Fairley is consistently blowing up the QB. 

    He is 6'5" and is listed at 298, but that is short changing the guy. He literally splits triple-teams. There isn't another front seven player with his blend of power and speed, IMO. 

    Totally hope NE can snare this guy, because he is the missing piece up front.
     
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    [QUOTE]I can't reiterate enough how much of a player Nick Fairley is. If anyone missed the Tiger Bowl, it was a close game, and Fairley was the difference maker. Three sacks, and one on the game's most crucial third down. It simply doesn't matter if Auburn's DB crew is suspect when Fairley is consistently blowing up the QB.  He is 6'5" and is listed at 298, but that is short changing the guy. He literally splits triple-teams. There isn't another front seven player with his blend of power and speed, IMO.  Totally hope NE can snare this guy, because he is the missing piece up front.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, kid is a stud, a QB killer, violently driving them into the ground given a clean shot and as you pointed out, is generally unblockable a lot of the time.  I don't see how he's not regarded as a top 5-10 prospect come draft time. He's on my short list of players that I hope NE targets with Oak's pick (assuming it's top 10), which at this point is 4 players; Peterson, Amukamara, Fairley and Dareus.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Faucet, Great stuff!!  Oddly enough, I was thinking about adding Ricky Henry to my original question (there isn't much out about him either), glad the scout touched off on him as well.  As I've been looking to add an OG to my mock, he may now be the guy.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    You know, we could add an OT and two C/OG types in the draft and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.  If we consider that Light isn't worth the $5MM + he will want next year, Neal is pushing 90 and Mankins is gone the need at OL becomes clear.  I do think Connolly has established himself at one of those interior spots and he can play all three.  For years I've been feeling Kaczur could be upgraded assuming he recovers for next year.  I also feel the same way about Koppen.  All these guys are over 30.  Wendell and Ohrnberger are undersized at 6-2, 290-300.  I really think we need to re-build our line around Vollmer and Connolly at this point with LeVoir in the mix.  I'm not saying we cut Koppen, Neal or Kaczur.  I think we keep them one more year to develop some new guys behind them and let competition play itself out in camp next year.

    I was really impressed with Gabe Carimi yesterday.  He squared off against Adrian Clayborn all day yesterday and pretty much handled him.  I've got Clayborn as the top rated DE in the country.  There were a couple of times that Clayborn got around Carimi and got pressure on the QB but in those cases the QB held the ball too long.  I didn't see the whole game but for the most part that I did watch Carimi was impressive.  His buddy next to him at LG, Moffit was also impressive.  Clearly the left side of that Wisconsin line got the better of Iowa's vaulted DL.  Wisconsin ran through those guys all day long.  It doesn't hurt when you have a bulldozer in John Clay either.  I'd take Clay, Moffit and Carimi if I could.

    If I could dream for a minute, I might do something like this.

    1a. CB Patrick Peterson, LSU, 6-0, 211, 4.42  or Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 6-0, 200, 4.49.  Let's make our weakest position a strength.  Butler and Wheatley appear to be busts, one of them can go.  Wihite at least gives some depth but Bodden, McCourty and one of these guys would be our nucleus and finally solidify a secondary for years to come that has been suspect since Samuel left.

    1b. OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 6-7, 322, 5.12 He handled the nation's best DE all day and that's good enough for me.  With Light likely leaving we bring in a new LT which allow Vollmer to stay on the right side where he is a beast in the run game.

    2a. OLB Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue, 6-4, 263, 4.82 A DE in college, Kerrigan racked up 25 sacks.  He projects as a 34 OLB in the NFL.  A team captain, who is smart, can bench 475 lbs and has the nickname "Superman" makes me wonder if he may go higher than 34 where I have him.  If he's gone, perhaps Mark Herzlich here.

    2b. DT Nick Fairley, Auburn, 6-4, 298, 4.98. By draft day this kid could be a first rounder if he declares.  He's been called the MVP of defensive linemen in the SEC.  He has the perfect size and big play ability you want from a 5 technique DE.  He could be a steal if still there late 50s, early 60s.

    3a. RG Ricky Henry, Nebraska, 6-3, 305, 5.28.  He hasn't been talked about much until now but he's a mean and nasty guard who used to give Ndamukong Suh fits in practice. 

    3b. LG John Moffit, Wisconsin, 6-4, 323, 5.28.  He's a big part of the best OL in college and received first team All Big 10 honors last year.  He has played a little at center giving BB some diversity that he loves on his OL.

    4. WR Derrell Johnson-Koulianos, Iowa, 6-0, 200, 4.52.  He won't set the world on fire but by the time he hangs up his college cleats he will be the all time leading receiver at Iowa.  He's a solid route runner with sure hands and can absorb the big hit while holding onto the football.  He could be the perfect 3rd WR option for Brady.     

    I know, no running backs.  BB will pick up a couple in free agency like he always does and perhaps we take one with our 6th round comp pick.  With $25MM in cap space we should be able to sign a #1 WR, a #1 RB and perhaps a stud FS.  I haven't checked out who might be available but this will be the deepest F/A class ever. 

    This draft solidifies our secondary and OL for years and also provides upgrades to OLB and DL.  Thoughts? 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Yeah, kid is a stud, a QB killer, violently driving them into the ground given a clean shot.  I don't see how he's not regarded as a top 5-10 prospect come draft time. He's on my short list of players that I hope NE targets with Oak's pick.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Wow, you already have Failey in the top 10?  Could be the draft experts haven't caught up yet.  You're going to make me go back and redo my last post.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : You know, we could add an OT and two C/OG types in the draft and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.  If we consider that Light isn't worth the $5MM + he will want next year, Neal is pushing 90 and Mankins is gone the need at OL becomes clear.  I do think Connolly has established himself at one of those interior spots and he can play all three.  For years I've been feeling Kaczur could be upgraded assuming he recovers for next year.  I also feel the same way about Koppen.  All these guys are over 30.  Wendell and Ohrnberger are undersized at 6-2, 290-300.  I really think we need to re-build our line around Vollmer and Connolly at this point with LeVoir in the mix.  I'm not saying we cut Koppen, Neal or Kaczur.  I think we keep them one more year to develop some new guys behind them and let competition play itself out in camp next year. I was really impressed with Gabe Carimi yesterday.  He squared off against Adrian Clayborn all day yesterday and pretty much handled him.  I've got Clayborn as the top rated DE in the country.  There were a couple of times that Clayborn got around Carimi and got pressure on the QB but in those cases the QB held the ball too long.  I didn't see the whole game but for the most part that I did watch Carimi was impressive.  His buddy next to him at LG, Moffit was also impressive.  Clearly the left side of that Wisconsin line got the better of Iowa's vaulted DL.  Wisconsin ran through those guys all day long.  It doesn't hurt when you have a bulldozer in John Clay either.  I'd take Clay, Moffit and Carimi if I could. If I could dream for a minute, I might do something like this. 1a. CB Patrick Peterson , LSU, 6-0, 211, 4.42   or Prince Amukamara , Nebraska 6-0, 200, 4.49.  Let's make our weakest position a strength.  Butler and Wheatley appear to be busts, one of them can go.  Wihite at least gives some depth but Bodden, McCourty and one of these guys would be our nucleus and finally solidify a secondary for years to come that has been suspect since Samuel left. 1b. OT Gabe Carimi , Wisconsin 6-7, 322, 5.12 He handled the nation's best DE all day and that's good enough for me.  With Light likely leaving we bring in a new LT which allow Vollmer to stay on the right side where he is a beast in the run game. 2a.  OLB Ryan Kerrigan , Purdue, 6-4, 263, 4.82 A DE in college, Kerrigan racked up 25 sacks.  He projects as a 34 OLB in the NFL.  A team captain, who is smart, can bench 475 lbs and has the nickname "Superman" makes me wonder if he may go higher than 34 where I have him.  If he's gone, perhaps Mark Herzlich here. 2b.  DT Nick Fairley , Auburn, 6-4, 298, 4.98. By draft day this kid could be a first rounder if he declares.  He's been called the MVP of defensive linemen in the SEC.  He has the perfect size and big play ability you want from a 5 technique DE.  He could be a steal if still there late 50s, early 60s. 3a.  RG Ricky Henry , Nebraska, 6-3, 305, 5.28.  He hasn't been talked about much until now but he's a mean and nasty guard who used to give Ndamukong Suh fits in practice.  3b.  LG John Moffit , Wisconsin, 6-4, 323, 5.28.  He's a big part of the best OL in college and received first team All Big 10 honors last year.  He has played a little at center giving BB some diversity that he loves on his OL. 4.  WR Derrell Johnson-Koulianos , Iowa, 6-0, 200, 4.52.  He won't set the world on fire but by the time he hangs up his college cleats he will be the all time leading receiver at Iowa.  He's a solid route runner with sure hands and can absorb the big hit while holding onto the football.  He could be the perfect 3rd WR option for Brady.      I know, no running backs.  BB will pick up a couple in free agency like he always does and perhaps we take one with our 6th round comp pick.  With $25MM in cap space we should be able to sign a #1 WR, a #1 RB and perhaps a stud FS.  I haven't checked out who might be available but this will be the deepest F/A class ever.  This draft solidifies our secondary and OL for years and also provides upgrades to OLB and DL.  Thoughts? 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    We like a lot of the same guys, I'd love to see Herzlich on this roster and like that he already plays primarily out of a two point stance, is strong vs the run and has excelled in coverage.  The kid is the epitome of the coachable, hard nosed, blue collar (I'm letting the clichés flow today) type player that BB has won with.  The big worry will be his long term health.

    I'm also firmly onboard with you on Henry and will be a kid I monitor closely. 

    As for Carimi, he did look shaky at times, but generally performed well matched up against Clayborn all day. 

    Johnson-Koulianos is a player that makes sense and won't cost a high round pick, solid Big-Ten player, projects as more of a possession guy, I'll be curious to see how he tests out in speed/quickness drills.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Wow, you already have Failey in the top 10?  Could be the draft experts haven't caught up yet.  You're going to make me go back and redo my last post.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, right now I think he's carrying a late 1st round grade and (barring any major character issues/injuries) I just don't see how he isn't top 10 come April, pure impact DE as ZB pointed out.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : You know, we could add an OT and two C/OG types in the draft and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.  If we consider that Light isn't worth the $5MM + he will want next year, Neal is pushing 90 and Mankins is gone the need at OL becomes clear.  I do think Connolly has established himself at one of those interior spots and he can play all three.  For years I've been feeling Kaczur could be upgraded assuming he recovers for next year.  I also feel the same way about Koppen.  All these guys are over 30.  Wendell and Ohrnberger are undersized at 6-2, 290-300.  I really think we need to re-build our line around Vollmer and Connolly at this point with LeVoir in the mix.  I'm not saying we cut Koppen, Neal or Kaczur.  I think we keep them one more year to develop some new guys behind them and let competition play itself out in camp next year. I was really impressed with Gabe Carimi yesterday.  He squared off against Adrian Clayborn all day yesterday and pretty much handled him.  I've got Clayborn as the top rated DE in the country.  There were a couple of times that Clayborn got around Carimi and got pressure on the QB but in those cases the QB held the ball too long.  I didn't see the whole game but for the most part that I did watch Carimi was impressive.  His buddy next to him at LG, Moffit was also impressive.  Clearly the left side of that Wisconsin line got the better of Iowa's vaulted DL.  Wisconsin ran through those guys all day long.  It doesn't hurt when you have a bulldozer in John Clay either.  I'd take Clay, Moffit and Carimi if I could. If I could dream for a minute, I might do something like this. 1a. CB Patrick Peterson , LSU, 6-0, 211, 4.42   or Prince Amukamara , Nebraska 6-0, 200, 4.49.  Let's make our weakest position a strength.  Butler and Wheatley appear to be busts, one of them can go.  Wihite at least gives some depth but Bodden, McCourty and one of these guys would be our nucleus and finally solidify a secondary for years to come that has been suspect since Samuel left. 1b. OT Gabe Carimi , Wisconsin 6-7, 322, 5.12 He handled the nation's best DE all day and that's good enough for me.  With Light likely leaving we bring in a new LT which allow Vollmer to stay on the right side where he is a beast in the run game. 2a.  OLB Ryan Kerrigan , Purdue, 6-4, 263, 4.82 A DE in college, Kerrigan racked up 25 sacks.  He projects as a 34 OLB in the NFL.  A team captain, who is smart, can bench 475 lbs and has the nickname "Superman" makes me wonder if he may go higher than 34 where I have him.  If he's gone, perhaps Mark Herzlich here. 2b.  DT Nick Fairley , Auburn, 6-4, 298, 4.98. By draft day this kid could be a first rounder if he declares.  He's been called the MVP of defensive linemen in the SEC.  He has the perfect size and big play ability you want from a 5 technique DE.  He could be a steal if still there late 50s, early 60s. 3a.  RG Ricky Henry , Nebraska, 6-3, 305, 5.28.  He hasn't been talked about much until now but he's a mean and nasty guard who used to give Ndamukong Suh fits in practice.  3b.  LG John Moffit , Wisconsin, 6-4, 323, 5.28.  He's a big part of the best OL in college and received first team All Big 10 honors last year.  He has played a little at center giving BB some diversity that he loves on his OL. 4.  WR Derrell Johnson-Koulianos , Iowa, 6-0, 200, 4.52.  He won't set the world on fire but by the time he hangs up his college cleats he will be the all time leading receiver at Iowa.  He's a solid route runner with sure hands and can absorb the big hit while holding onto the football.  He could be the perfect 3rd WR option for Brady.      I know, no running backs.  BB will pick up a couple in free agency like he always does and perhaps we take one with our 6th round comp pick.  With $25MM in cap space we should be able to sign a #1 WR, a #1 RB and perhaps a stud FS.  I haven't checked out who might be available but this will be the deepest F/A class ever.  This draft solidifies our secondary and OL for years and also provides upgrades to OLB and DL.  Thoughts? 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    the wisconsin OL has been doing that all season so far. that OL is the reason why their RBs are racking up their stats.

    and it is not just the result that i like about the linemen. i don;t know if you caught any, but they showed a ot of slomos of the OL opeing up lanes yesterday. you should have noticed how #68 and #74 really had good leverage. one-on-one, they'd be very hard to overpower or even resist. and when they make mistakes, they are atheltic enough to recover without resorting to borderline holds. they did that against clayborn yesterday. ohio state's heyward completel disappeared last week.

    if their starting C (#66) plays next week, try to catch their game. he's another one on that OL who's interesting. he'd be a very good catch in the third or fourth rnd (assuming people haven't noticed him yet).

    just like the wis off-line, i like fairley because he plays game in game out. i don't think he's had a bad game. it says a lot about his unique mental toughness. he's actually 10 lbs lighter than i like for 3-4 DEs, but that kind of consistent effort is harder to find. besides, tht guy would be unstoppable as a DE on a 3-4.

    i do think he will be in the top 10. auburn is doing well, so he's not going to be under the radar.

    that said, not that it matters to nwe at this point, but i am guessing cam newton is climbing the charts really fast.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    I've had Fairley in my top ten for a month. He is that good. 

    Wilfork, Warren, and Fairley would change this defense all around, IMO. I feel like even at the next level, he will draw two defenders from day one. Playing in Sey's old spot, that will force the offense to load up on him and Cunningham. I can't see two players nmeutralizing those two, and three would be hard. Add in a RB who can block, and that leaves Fork and Warren/Wright one-on-one. 

    Add one more blitzer and you are forcing Max Protect, like leaving a TE and RB home. 

    All of a sudden Chung, McCourty, Meri, Bodden, Mayo, and Guyton/Spikes will have a clear field to make some plays in a sweet 3 on 6 matchup. The funniest part being, I think Ne will still get pressure in a situation like that. Especially if they can draw/develop another Cunningham-esque OLB who can do a few things well.  

    The draft guys can't always catch up. Like most dedicated amateurs, I have the luxury of focusing on 20 or so guys who I suspect "work" out of the top thirty-sixty. It is good to see that Scouts Inc has gotten Drake Nevis into the top 30, where he should belong if he comes out -- but I say this honestly, Fairley is bigger and just as fast.

    And Marcel Darius will drop, IMO. He is an ok NT prospect, and a great undertackle prospect, not unlike Dorsey from a few years back, but different in style. 

    I wouldn't understate Fairley's ability to stop the run. He really pursues the ball, through the whistle, and takes the same pride in exploding a running play.

    He is a touch violent, but I actually like to draft those guys because they are the one's who give max effort.

    As far as actually being selected top ten, there are four top ten teams with 34 defenses. While he could be a lethal undertackle, I think there are a couple equally intriguing 43 end prospects up top that could draw fire. SF and  BUF need QBs, badly. That leaves Cleveland.

    I would hate to see this kid in Cleveland. He is a  beast.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    How do you guys feel about Demarco Murray. I kind of hate his incredibly upright running style, but he is crazy fast, gifted at blocking, receiving and returning, and has a depressed value in the low second/high third.

    I think this is a weak RB draft, but this kid's size and versatility make me think he could be worth a shot in the right place, especially given his top gear, which is more than enough to marry at least one safety to the line.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : We like a lot of the same guys, I'd love to see Herzlich on this roster and like that he already plays primarily out of a two point stance, is strong vs the run and has excelled in coverage.  The kid is the epitome of the coachable, hard nosed, blue collar (I'm letting the clichés flow today) type player that BB has won with.  The big worry will be his long term health. I'm also firmly onboard with you on Henry and will be a kid I monitor closely.  As for Carimi, he did look shaky at times, but generally performed well matched up against Clayborn all day.  Johnson-Koulianos is a player that makes sense and won't cost a high round pick, solid Big-Ten player, projects as more of a possession guy, I'll be curious to see how he tests out in speed/quickness drills.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Based on the season thus far, I'd have no problems with Fairley at the top of our list assuming he comes out and assuming he checks out great at the Combine and in interviews.  He's listed at 6-4, 298, 4.98 which is impressive but smaller than what we usually look for in a 34 DE.  I'm not going to compare Failey to Seymour since Seymour was listed at 6-6, 310.  He's closer to Ty Warren, 6-5, 300.  We took Seymour #6 overall and Warren 13th overall so I'm sure BB will be thinking DL with that Raider pick.  Perhaps the smart play is a trade down to the mid teens trying to pick up a 2012 2nd then taking Fairley at about 10-15 depending how the board shakes out.

    What do you think about taking Ras-I Dowling with our late 1st and converting him to FS?  He's been a little beat up with his knee this year but hopefully it's nothing serious.  At 6-2, 200, 4.54 he might be better as a safety than a corner in the NFL.  But he would also be able to play CB if you needed.  We could still go after Herzlich with the CAR pick and we've spent our top 3 picks addressing each level of the defense.  We can then go after offensive talent with our next 4 picks selecting a combination of OL, WR and RB.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Herzlich is a good name. How do you guys think he would be as a 34 olb? I have watched him enough, but I am not really sure how well his duties at BC translate to his prospective duties here. I see a lot of him shooting gaps to make plays, and not a whole lot of the take-on drudgery.

    At the same time, he seems like an unnaturally intelligent and competitive linebacker. And he is fast as a cat. So many raw materials.
     

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