2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD : Ever hear of something called 'running the clock down'? Of course not because that would shift some fault to Brady and we can't have that no matter how many times he screws up.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    Running the clock down doesn't always happen Rusty. If it doesn't you have to sometimes rely on your D actually getting a stop to win a SB. I'm as disappointed as anybody that Welker dropped the ball that would likely have won the game. But that doesn't change the fact the D lost the game when it was on the line.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD :      What's done is done. Nothing left to do now but hope for the best. Frankly, even if only Jones and Hightower turn out to be very good players, Pats' fans have to consider this draft a success.  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    At least BB addressed the glaring problem; defense, didn't trade down and hope to get lucky with 2nd round prayers or trade now for tomorrow.

    Your grading of his draft is entirely reasonable.
     
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     Amazing job TexasPat ...

     I'm nominating this for BDC Draft Thread of the Year
    ( though lets face it  - no chance of beating out MB's perennial Draft behemoth )

      I too hated the Wilson pick  , at least in theory  , and haven't been shy about admitting it.

    I thought the move was downright Anti-Belichickian .

     In his post-draft presser BB alluded to the fact that the 2nd round of the draft moved swiftly .
      Lets face it  , Belichick didn't go from being the shrewdest horse trader in the show to suddenly being a dumb-ars . He knows where players should be picked better than anybody.
       IMO -I think BB misread the tea leaves mid-way thru the 2nd , but I don't fault him for it. ( there were teams in front of him gettin fair market deals done so there was no reason to believe there'd be no market for #48 )
      I think he wanted to trade down but was stymied and couldn't find a trade partner so his hand was forced into taking Wilson earlier than he wanted .
        To BB's credit by the time pick # 62 came around  - he'd already adjusted to the new reality and did what he had to do to keep his draft alive .

    One last thought that occurred to me .

    If BB was indeed looking to deal at #48 but couldnt find an adequate partner -
    I wonder what would have happened if he just PASSED on making a pick ?

     Could a trade partner had been found at #49 ...or #50 ...or ?

    Would Goodell have thrown a fit if BB kept passing ?

    Highly unlikely that an unheralded guy like Tavon Wilson would have snatched up immediately thereafter .

    Heres the next 10 picks :

    New England Patriots Tavon Wilson S Illinois Big Ten from Oakland[R2 - 7]
      2 49 San Diego Chargers Kendall Reyes DT Connecticut Big East  
      2 50 St. Louis Rams Isaiah Pead RB Cincinnati Big East from Chicago [R2 - 8]
      2 51 Green Bay Packers Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State Big Ten from Arizona via Philadelphia[R2 - 9]
      2 52 Tennessee Titans Zach Brown LB North Carolina ACC  
      2 53 Cincinnati Bengals Devon Still DT Penn State Big Ten  
      2 54 Detroit Lions Ryan Broyles WR Oklahoma Big 12  
      2 55 Atlanta Falcons Peter Konz C Wisconsin Big Ten  
      2 56 Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Adams OT Ohio State Big Ten  
      2 57 Denver Broncos Brock Osweiler QB Arizona State Pac-12  
      2 58 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Lavonte David LB Nebraska Big Ten from Houston [R2 - 10]

    Not a whole lot of DBs flyin' off the boards ...

    In fact , not until the Pats trade at #62 with GB does another one even get picked - Casey Hayward.


    IMO ...
    BB is a master at manipulating the board - but he's human and pick #48 of the 2012 NFL draft was just not his finest hour .
        I also believe pick #62 showed his true greatness as he rallied and parlayed his remaining pick in the draft into useful pieces of the puzzle .
    ( I thought the Jake Bequette pick was solid )
     
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    All I have is gut feelings.  Really, in a year we might have some actual evidence. 

    For the Patriots, 
    Chandler Jones  A  Truly awesome potential.
    Hightower  B  Good pick but not a Chandler Jones
    Tevon Who  Incomplete.  If Buffalo had drafted him I would have thrown rocks immediately.  But BB gets some great picks from Mars.
    Bequette  A  He looks like a fairly hot pass rusher who can start in September.
    Buddy Ebson  A  for sixth and seventh round picks, they all have potential.  That's all you can ask from late-round picks.

    For the Jets,
    Quinton Coples  B-  Good pick but tending toward average.  The guy looks like Tarzan.
    Stephen Hill  D  Fourth round talent right now.  The guy can't cut, can't run routes except the go and the post, so just put one guy plenty deep and don't worry.  Hill has stone hands too.  This guy is tall enough to swing through the trees like Tarzan.  This draft has Mike Genius Tannenbaum written all over it. 

    For Miami:  Ryan Tannehill is a reach.  When you reach, and when you have no record of success reaching or even much of a plan, just a dumb hunch, you get a D.

    For Buffalo, they sound kind of competent.  B.
     
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    Pats get an A just for getting Jones and Hightower.  This is like getting Gronk and herdz just on the defensive side.  If they get anything (and I think they will) out of the other picks its just icing on the cake. 

    I agree with the Wilson who comments but I am not going to let that ruin what was a great day 1.

     
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    Great report.  Thanks.  However, critizing any pick in the late rounds is just silly.  They are all reaches at that point.  What is the probability that any 7th rounder will become a starter on an NFL team?  Is it any different than the probablilty for an UDFA?  (I for one like the Ebert pick.  Taking a flyer on a great athlete is a good use for a 7th round selection.  And damn that guy is fast!)
     
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    [QUOTE]Great report.  Thanks.  However, critizing any pick in the late rounds is just silly.  They are all reaches at that point.  What is the probability that any 7th rounder will become a starter on an NFL team?  Is it any different than the probablilty for an UDFA?  (I for one like the Ebert pick.  Taking a flyer on a great athlete is a good use for a 7th round selection.  And damn that guy is fast!)
    Posted by batou[/QUOTE]

         Not really being critical of Ebert...but more of a slight attempt at humour, in my own mind. When I read that the Pats' took Ebert, the first think I thought of was "Siskel and Ebert", the movie critics...LOL!!!   
     
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    [QUOTE] Amazing job TexasPat ...  I'm nominating this for BDC Draft Thread of the Year ( though lets face it  - no chance of beating out MB's perennial Draft behemoth )   I too hated the Wilson pick  , at least in theory  , and haven't been shy about admitting it. I thought the move was downright Anti-Belichickian .  In his post-draft presser BB alluded to the fact that the 2nd round of the draft moved swiftly .   Lets face it  , Belichick didn't go from being the shrewdest horse trader in the show to suddenly being a dumb-ars . He knows where players should be picked better than anybody.    IMO -I think BB misread the tea leaves mid-way thru the 2nd , but I don't fault him for it. ( there were teams in front of him gettin fair market deals done so there was no reason to believe there'd be no market for #48 )   I think he wanted to trade down but was stymied and couldn't find a trade partner so his hand was forced into taking Wilson earlier than he wanted .     To BB's credit by the time pick # 62 came around  - he'd already adjusted to the new reality and did what he had to do to keep his draft alive . One last thought that occurred to me . If BB was indeed looking to deal at #48 but couldnt find an adequate partner - I wonder what would have happened if he just PASSED on making a pick ?  Could a trade partner had been found at #49 ...or #50 ...or ? Would Goodell have thrown a fit if BB kept passing ? Highly unlikely that an unheralded guy like Tavon Wilson would have snatched up immediately thereafter . Heres the next 10 picks : New England Patriots Tavon Wilson S Illinois Big Ten from Oakland [ R2 - 7 ]   2 49 San Diego Chargers Kendall Reyes DT Connecticut Big East     2 50 St. Louis Rams Isaiah Pead RB Cincinnati Big East from Chicago [ R2 - 8 ]   2 51 Green Bay Packers Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State Big Ten from Arizona via Philadelphia [ R2 - 9 ]   2 52 Tennessee Titans Zach Brown LB North Carolina ACC     2 53 Cincinnati Bengals Devon Still DT Penn State Big Ten     2 54 Detroit Lions Ryan Broyles WR Oklahoma Big 12     2 55 Atlanta Falcons Peter Konz C Wisconsin Big Ten     2 56 Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Adams OT Ohio State Big Ten     2 57 Denver Broncos Brock Osweiler QB Arizona State Pac-12     2 58 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Lavonte David LB Nebraska Big Ten from Houston [ R2 - 10 ] Not a whole lot of DBs flyin' off the boards ... In fact , not until the Pats trade at #62 with GB does another one even get picked - Casey Hayward. IMO ... BB is a master at manipulating the board - but he's human and pick #48 of the 2012 NFL draft was just not his finest hour .     I also believe pick #62 showed his true greatness as he rallied and parlayed his remaining pick in the draft into useful pieces of the puzzle . ( I thought the Jake Bequette pick was solid )
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]

         Frankly Captain, I do fault BB. I don't think he was fully prepared for day 2. Time pressure only effects those who have not adequately prepared. As you said, he misread the tea leaves...and didn't appear to have a well thought out approach to the 2nd round. Clearly, he violated his own principle of getting the utmost valuue for each pick. He should have traded down at  #48. Or, he should have chosen DT Jerel Worthy at #48. Worthy had a first round grade, and has a chance to be a pocket collapsing interior player. That's a prized commodity in the NFL. 

         Here's a break down on Worthy:  

    4. Jerel Worthy 6-2½ 310 Michigan St. (S. 4.99) R. 9.0

    Background: High School
    – Worthy was an All-Ohio pick as a senior at Wayne HS in Huber Heights after posting 50 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 12 QB hurries, seven pass knockdowns, and two fumble recoveries as a senior. Redshirt Freshman – Worthy was a Freshman All-American as a redshirt freshman with the Spartans in 2009 after starting 11 of his 13 appearances and making 37 tackles, including nine for loss and 4.5 sacks, breaking up two passes, and recovering one fumble. He had 1.5 sacks among his three tackles vs. Central Michigan; he had three stops, with 1.5 going for loss, at Wisconsin; and he had four tackles each vs. Iowa (2 TFLs) and at Minnesota (fumble recovery). Sophomore – Worthy was in the starting lineup in all 13 games in 2010 and he led the defensive line with 40 total tackles, eight of which came behind the line of scrimmage. Four of those were sacks, and he deflected three passes at the line of scrimmage. He had three tackles, a sack, and a blocked

    kick at Michigan; he had 1.5 tackles for loss and a pass knockdown at Northwestern; he had a sack among his five total stops at Penn State; and he had five tackles, including 1.5 TFLs, and a QB pressure in the Minnesota game. Junior – This past season, Worthy was a consensus first team All-American after posting 30 tackles, 10.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks, 10 QB pressures, one pass breakup, and a fumble recovery. He had four stops and he fell on a loose ball in the Notre Dame game; both of his tackles vs. Ohio State went for loss, including one sack; he had two TFLs and a pass breakup against Indiana; and two of his five tackles in the Outback Bowl vs. Georgia went for losses. Analysis: You can make the argument that Worthy was one of the top two or three defensive players on the Spartans during his entire career. He is a tempo setter along the interior of the defensive line, disrupting plays before they start. He faced a lot of double teams in his three seasons in the BigTen, but he has the size to battle through and collapse the pocket. Now, Worthy isn’t a sack artist, but he does make plays in the backfield and will be solid against the run. He’ll shoot the gaps and use his incredible strength—he benches 415 lbs. and squats 600 lbs.—to take on blocks and free up the linebackers to flow to the football. Worthy played at a very high level and in the right NFL defensive scheme, he could end up being a very valuable asset. He’s the kind of guy who will be a middleinebacker's best friend at the pro level the way he occupies the center

    and offensive guards. *Combine Note: Ran a 4.97, didn't lift, and had a 28 ½” vertical jump


     

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD :      Frankly Captain, I do fault BB. I don't think he was fully prepared for day 2. Time pressure only effects those who have not adequately prepared. As you said, he misread the tea leaves...and didn't appear to have a well thought out approach to the 2nd round. Clearly, he violated his own principle of getting the utmost valuue for each pick. He should have traded down at  #48. Or, he should have chosen DT Jerel Worthy at #48. Worthy had a first round grade, and has a chance to be a pocket collapsing interior player. That's a prized commodity in the NFL.       Here's a break down on Worthy:   4. Jerel Worthy 6-2½ 310 Michigan St. (S. 4.99) R. 9.0 Background: High School – Worthy was an All-Ohio pick as a senior at Wayne HS in Huber Heights after posting 50 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 12 QB hurries, seven pass knockdowns, and two fumble recoveries as a senior. Redshirt Freshman – Worthy was a Freshman All-American as a redshirt freshman with the Spartans in 2009 after starting 11 of his 13 appearances and making 37 tackles, including nine for loss and 4.5 sacks, breaking up two passes, and recovering one fumble. He had 1.5 sacks among his three tackles vs. Central Michigan; he had three stops, with 1.5 going for loss, at Wisconsin; and he had four tackles each vs. Iowa (2 TFLs) and at Minnesota (fumble recovery). Sophomore – Worthy was in the starting lineup in all 13 games in 2010 and he led the defensive line with 40 total tackles, eight of which came behind the line of scrimmage. Four of those were sacks, and he deflected three passes at the line of scrimmage. He had three tackles, a sack, and a blocked kick at Michigan; he had 1.5 tackles for loss and a pass knockdown at Northwestern; he had a sack among his five total stops at Penn State; and he had five tackles, including 1.5 TFLs, and a QB pressure in the Minnesota game. Junior – This past season, Worthy was a consensus first team All-American after posting 30 tackles, 10.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks, 10 QB pressures, one pass breakup, and a fumble recovery. He had four stops and he fell on a loose ball in the Notre Dame game; both of his tackles vs. Ohio State went for loss, including one sack; he had two TFLs and a pass breakup against Indiana; and two of his five tackles in the Outback Bowl vs. Georgia went for losses. Analysis: You can make the argument that Worthy was one of the top two or three defensive players on the Spartans during his entire career. He is a tempo setter along the interior of the defensive line, disrupting plays before they start. He faced a lot of double teams in his three seasons in the Big Ten, but he has the size to battle through and collapse the pocket. Now, Worthy isn’t a sack artist, but he does make plays in the backfield and will be solid against the run. He’ll shoot the gaps and use his incredible strength—he benches 415 lbs. and squats 600 lbs.—to take on blocks and free up the linebackers to flow to the football. Worthy played at a very high level and in the right NFL defensive scheme, he could end up being a very valuable asset. He’s the kind of guy who will be a middleinebacker's best friend at the pro level the way he occupies the center and offensive guards. *Combine Note: Ran a 4.97, didn't lift, and had a 28 ½” vertical jump  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    All of the 3 DT that people talked about being there for the Pats were there and he didn't take any of them.  It's quite obvious they didnt feel they needed/wanted a DT. 

    To me that signals a change in the defense he plans to run.  They are obviously looking to get quicker/faster to better play against the spread offense.  He likes what he has with Wilfork, Warren, Love et al in the middle.  I think we will be seeing alot more 3-4 this year, and more of his exotic 2-5-4 type stuff with 5 linebackers on the field at the same time.
     
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    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    Not sure if I completely agree with the Pats grade TP. I mean when I'm grading teams I weight 1st rounders much higher then 7th rounders, with that in mind here's how I thought the draft went:

    Jones - This kid has very high potential. He could end up being the next Willie with his athletic ability. But, on the same note he is raw and will take time to develop. This pick was with an eye on the future. As Mayock said in 3 years he could be the best D player to come out of the draft, so in the time being we'll have to trust in BB and hope he develops

    Hightower - This kid was a homerun. The moment I saw Pitt's pick in then saw the trade I knew BB jumped all over Hightower. He's basically a bigger version of Mayo. An on the field leader that is very smart. Essentially Hightower is the better pass rusher with some abiility to cover while Mayo is the better pass coverage LB with some ability to rush the QB. You put them side by side and the O might not know which one to block and which one will drop back.

    Wilson - I've seen film, read analysis, and heard former GM's talk about the pick and from everything I can see with only 2 picks left at the moment, no trades in the works for #48, and S being a critical area of need BB took a leap at a player with versatility in the secondary. Was he a reach, most likely, but with McCourty and Moore both being able to play FS then it lowers the risk. That versitility will lead him to find a spot on the roster whether as a nickel/dime CB, slot DB, or FS he'll find a spot. Which ever spot he leaves open McCourty and Moore will fill. Compared to the other S's available and CB conversion types Wilson offered the most flexibility with the highest character and leadership ability. That doesn't mean it wasn't a reach but I can see why BB took him over other players given the situation at that point in the draft

    Bequette I think could be another homerun given where he was taken. He's a Vrable type that should be able to come in right away and fill a role. He can be in rotation with Nink and keep both fresh all season or fill specialty roles but he will play. With his size and flashes of being able to drop back this kid might be the lunchbox LB/DE tweener who's name is well known in NE but forgotten everywhere else. I like the pick

    Ebner is the classic BB pick. He's a high motor player who was a global MVP in another sport. He walked on to one of the best college programs in the country after never playing the sport and niched out a role. He could be another Izzo but if he can develop he could be a very dangerous in the box SS. It's a classic low risk high reward player without red flags. The other thing to note is last year we were giving up to many yrds in returns. Watching video of this kid as a gunner makes me believe he could help in that aspect.

    Dennard is a player that could have been taken at #48 if not for being tossed out of the cotton bowl and punching a cop. He's another CB/FS tweener hedging BB's bets. High talent player that dropped. If he keeps his nose clean and attitude in check then he'll be the steal of the draft. If he can't then oh well just a late round 7th pick

    Ebert is a late 7th round pick but heck so was Edelman and Welker was undrafted. Ebert is in the similar mode so he could develop into a good 3rd/4th slot WR, which what more could you ask from a late 7th rounder? I think immediately he could impact the return game, which was a major weakness last year. If he can add 5-10yrds of field position per return then even if he does nothing else he far exceeded his value for the pick taken.

    All in all the addressed their 2 biggest needs: consistent pass rush and secondary problems. They also might have addressed their 3rd biggest weakness, imo, the return game with not only a returner but also top end gunners. Not sure what most people were looking for but BB dealt with some pretty biog elephants in the room this time around with high character, intelligent, leadership quality players. The only question I would have would be around Wilson but again given the situation I can see why BB might have taken him, even though he might not have presented great value at that pick

    Weighting 1st rounders heavily and progressive getting lighter backwards I would say this draft was a solid -A or at worst a B+ given the holes filled and players they filled them with
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD : All of the 3 DT that people talked about being there for the Pats were there and he didn't take any of them.  It's quite obvious they didnt feel they needed/wanted a DT.  To me that signals a change in the defense he plans to run.  They are obviously looking to get quicker/faster to better play against the spread offense.  He likes what he has with Wilfork, Warren, Love et al in the middle.  I think we will be seeing alot more 3-4 this year, and more of his exotic 2-5-4 type stuff with 5 linebackers on the field at the same time.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

         I don't see it as a good thing for Vince Wilfolk to be on the field for as many snaps as he was, last year. Any of the quality DTs would have afforded BB the opportunity to rest him more. Plus, is signing the ancient Gerard Warren a better option? I thought one of the goals was to continue to add quality youth to our defense?:  http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1376426

         Then again, BB passing on a guy like Worthy may be viewed as an endorsement of DT Ron Brace. But, Brace has seemingly done little to justify such an opinion.

         Of course, all this becomes a moot point if Tavon Wilson shows that he's the answer at safety. Time will tell. 
          
     
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    A: Hightower, Bequette, Dennard I love these 3 picks. Hightower provides so much high level versatility. He's going to be what we had hoped AD would be. 1st round picks are the riskiest selections so taking one of the lowest risk players was a great move, especially after taking Jones. There were four OLBs that I thought had good enough athleticism to spend a lot of time evaluating on my own. Ingram quickly was unlikely to be available. Branch seemed to be limited to speed moves and could easily get pushed around. Same with Irvin. That left Bequette who was ideal, tough, quick, developed rush technique ... He was the one I wanted for this team and I'm so glad they made that pick. Denard is a low risk selection. In a sense the perfect choice to compete for the 4th or 5th spot. If we ended up cutting him, all we'd have lost is a 7th round pick. We aren't obligated to have him make the team unlike if we had spent an early round pick but we are getting that kind of talent to compete for the spot. Also, he has some safety versatility that we could take advantage of. B: Jones I worry about this pick. I wasn't very high on him a's a first round pick because he is so raw. But he certainly looks the part and has the potential to be an impact elephant LB. Adding Bequette and Hightower makes this pick a lot easier for me to be ok with this risk since we took risks with two players at complementary roles I like. C/NA: Wilson, Ebert, Ebner I didn't spend a lot of time scouting these 3. They all sound like they can offer something. If Ebert and Ebner don't, it's ok. They were late round picks. There is a lot of pressure on Wilson though as our second round pick. We will see...
     
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    In response to "Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD :      I don't see it as a good thing for Vince Wilfolk to be on the field for as many snaps as he was, last year. Any of the quality DTs would have afforded BB the opportunity to rest him more. Plus, is signing the ancient Gerard Warren a better option? I thought one of the goals was to continue to add quality youth to our defense?:   http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1376426      Then again, BB passing on a guy like Worthy may be viewed as an endorsement of DT Ron Brace. But, Brace has seemingly done little to justify such an opinion.      Of course, all this becomes a moot point if Tavon Wilson shows that he's the answer at safety. Time will tell.         Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE] A big part of Wilfork getting extra snaps was to cover the pass rushing duties inside after losing Wright and Pryor. We hopefully will have Pryor (or perhaps Forston) and Fanene to cover those snaps hopefully. I worried with Worthy whether he fit the 3-4. Drafting him may have limited us to even defensive formations.
     
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    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    TP,
    Very good work, I'm sure a lot of research went into putting this together.

    RE:  We've debated Tavon so no use going there now.

    My one real question is what you have against Jeremy Ebert?  Put on the tape, kid looks like a prototype BB slot WR and has the skill set to be a potential successor to WW.  Good size/speed combo for the slot position, solid quicks and COD, executes his routes cleanly and will set up defenders, catches the football well, will work to get open, catches the football well, is smart (dummies don't get into NW) and he was very productive his last two season... that's a lot of positives for a 7th round kid.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]A: Hightower, Bequette, Dennard I love these 3 picks. Hightower provides so much high level versatility. He's going to be what we had hoped AD would be. 1st round picks are the riskiest selections so taking one of the lowest risk players was a great move, especially after taking Jones.
     
    RESPONSE: Don't sell Jones short. He could be the Willie McGinest type player that the Pats have been looking for. As for Hightower, my only concern is his ability to stay healthy. He suffered aa serious knee injury, two years ago. 

    There were four OLBs that I thought had good enough athleticism to spend a lot of time evaluating on my own. Ingram quickly was unlikely to be available. Branch seemed to be limited to speed moves and could easily get pushed around. Same with Irvin. That left Bequette who was ideal, tough, quick, developed rush technique. He was the one I wanted for this team. I'm glad they made that pick.

    RESPONSE: An intriguing pick...but most publications had him as a late 4th-5th round guy.  He was a DE at Arkansas. The question is, can he transition to a 3-4 OLB?

    Denard is a low risk selection. In a sense the perfect choice to compete for the 4th or 5th spot. If we ended up cutting him, all we'd have lost is a 7th round pick. We aren't obligated to have him make the team unlike if we had spent an early round pick but we are getting that kind of talent to compete for the spot. Also, he has some safety versatility that we could take advantage of.
     
    RESPONSE: Dennard is the low risk, high reward type of guy, whom you like to see added in the later rounds.

    B: Jones I worry about this pick. I wasn't very high on him a's a first round pick because he is so raw. But he certainly looks the part and has the potential to be an impact elephant LB. Adding Bequette and Hightower makes this pick a lot easier for me to be ok with this risk since we took risks with two players at complementary roles I like. C/NA: Wilson, Ebert, Ebner I didn't spend a lot of time scouting these 3. They all sound like they can offer something. If Ebert and Ebner don't, it's ok. They were late round picks. There is a lot of pressure on Wilson though as our second round pick. We will see...

    RESPONSE: With the Pats spending their 48th overall pick on Wilson, he had better produce.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]
     
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    In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD :      I don't see it as a good thing for Vince Wilfolk to be on the field for as many snaps as he was, last year. Any of the quality DTs would have afforded BB the opportunity to rest him more. Plus, is signing the ancient Gerard Warren a better option? I thought one of the goals was to continue to add quality youth to our defense?:   http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1376426      Then again, BB passing on a guy like Worthy may be viewed as an endorsement of DT Ron Brace. But, Brace has seemingly done little to justify such an opinion.      Of course, all this becomes a moot point if Tavon Wilson shows that he's the answer at safety. Time will tell.        
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I think he likes Love and Deadrick better then Brace.  Brace better show something or I dont think he makes it out of camp this year with all the additions.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    I'm not selling Jones short, I don't think. He ha the highest potential of any pass rusher in this draft. He has to put in a lot of work though to become that player. A lot more work to play at a high level than Bequette and Hightower who IMO can come in immediately and be impact players. I recognize that most fans aren't a's high on Bequette as I am. I look at him and see a more athletic, better suited to the 3-4 Ryan Kerrigan.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    Pretty cool TP.  Grading a draft is such a subjective thing.  If grading a player is subjective, image what grading a draft is?  I mean, what is the criteria?  Is it how many starters you get out of a draft, how many Pro Bowlers, in what time frame for each?  Is it how many make the team, how many are major contributors, or is it how many needs you filled?  Is it how many picks you made, or how many quality picks you made?  Is the draft about collecting talent or building a team?  Think about it, this is a huge question.  If you pick a bunch of talented guys but they don't gel as a team, what good are they?  But for purposes of grading a draft, we really can only attempt to measure the talent.

    ESPN has a grade for each player taken, except for 2.  One was ours, one was a Bill.  The lowest grade assigned was a 20 so it's a scale from 20-100.  I gave those 2 players a 20.  I captured the data by team and by division.  It really doesn't matter what round a player is taken in once he's drafted, right?  What matters is collecting talent for this purpose.

    If we base things on which teams drafted the most players ranked above 90 we have just 4 teams.  Those teams are the Patriots, Jets, Bills and Bucs.  Pretty shocking huh?  If a team is already good and only needs two players then these 4 teams would be considered to have had great drafts because you can only put 11 guys on the field at any given time, without drawing a penalty. 

    19 teams drafted one player with a rank of 90 or better.
    So 9 teams didn't draft anyone with a 90 or better.

    We could almost put this on a bell curve.  If we did, the Pats, Bills, Dolphins and Bucs would all get an A.

    But if we open it up to picks that rank 80 or better then we have:

    2 teams with 4 (Eagles, Bengals)
    8 teams with 3 (Rams, Dolphins, Vikings, Browns, Packers, Bucs, Steelers, Lions)
    13 teams with 2
    7 teams with 1
    2 teams with NONE (Saints, Raiders)

    This does work good on a bell curve.  So if we assign a letter grade based on a bell for players ranked 80-100 we get the following:

    TeamTotalPicksAvg/PkAvg/Top 4>9080-8980+Grade
    Bengals7371073.7089.0134A
    Eagles607967.4486.8134A
    Rams6341063.4086.5123A
    Dolphins613968.1186.3123B
    Vikings6341063.4084.5123B
    Browns6581159.8283.5123B
    Packers501862.6383.3123B
    Buccaneers438762.5782.5213B
    Steelers503955.8982.0123B
    Lions469858.6381.3123B
    Colts6231062.3086.5112C
    Panthers457765.2984112C
    Bills563962.5682.3202C
    Chargers486769.4381.25112C
    Jets467858.3881.3202C
    Chiefs478859.7578.5112C
    Patriots396756.5778.5202C
    Redskins517957.4477.8112C
    Giants442763.1477.5022C
    Cardinals443763.2977112C
    Broncos443763.2974.5022C
    Bears338656.3369.5112C
    Jaguars307651.1764.0112C
    Titans481768.7178.8011D
    Texans486860.7576.8011D
    49ers442763.1475.8011D
    Cowboys387664.5074.3101D
    Seahawks5141051.4073.5011D
    Ravens474859.2572.3101D
    Falcons310651.6762.3011F
    Saints249549.8054.25000F
    Raiders266644.3354000F

    But if we look at the average ranking of the top 4 picks under the theory that you are lucky if you find 4 good players in a draft, we get a slightly different result.  The Colts move up to an A.

    TeamTotalPicksAvg/PkAvg/Top 4>9080-8980+Grade
    Bengals7371073.7089.0134A
    Eagles607967.4486.8134A
    Rams6341063.4086.5123A
    Colts6231062.3086.5112A
    Dolphins613968.1186.3123B
    Vikings6341063.4084.5123B
    Panthers457765.2984112B
    Browns6581159.8283.5123B
    Packers501862.6383.3123B
    Buccaneers438762.5782.5213B
    Bills563962.5682.3202C
    Steelers503955.8982.0123C
    Lions469858.6381.3123C
    Chargers486769.4381.25112C
    Jets467858.3881.3202C
    Titans481768.7178.8011C
    Chiefs478859.7578.5112C
    Patriots396756.5778.5202C
    Redskins517957.4477.8112C
    Giants442763.1477.5022C
    Cardinals443763.2977112C
    Texans486860.7576.8011C
    49ers442763.1475.8011C
    Broncos443763.2974.5022D
    Cowboys387664.5074.3101D
    Seahawks5141051.4073.5011D
    Ravens474859.2572.3101D
    Bears338656.3369.5112D
    Jaguars307651.1764.0112D
    Falcons310651.6762.3011F
    Saints249549.8054.25000F
    Raiders266644.3354000F
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Pretty cool TP.  Grading a draft is such a subjective thing.  If grading a player is subjective, image what grading a draft is?  I mean, what is the criteria?  Is it how many starters you get out of a draft, how many Pro Bowlers, in what time frame for each?  Is it how many make the team, how many are major contributors, or is it how many needs you filled?  Is it how many picks you made, or how many quality picks you made?  Is the draft about collecting talent or building a team?  Think about it, this is a huge question.  If you pick a bunch of talented guys but they don't gel as a team, what good are they?  But for purposes of grading a draft, we really can only attempt to measure the talent. ESPN has a grade for each player taken, except for 2.  One was ours, one was a Bill.  The lowest grade assigned was a 20 so it's a scale from 20-100.  I gave those 2 players a 20.  I captured the data by team and by division.  It really doesn't matter what round a player is taken in once he's drafted, right?  What matters is collecting talent for this purpose. If we base things on which teams drafted the most players ranked above 90 we have just 4 teams.  Those teams are the Patriots, Jets, Bills and Bucs.  Pretty shocking huh?  If a team is already good and only needs two players then these 4 teams would be considered to have had great drafts because you can only put 11 guys on the field at any given time, without drawing a penalty.  19 teams drafted one player with a rank of 90 or better. So 9 teams didn't draft anyone with a 90 or better. We could almost put this on a bell curve.  If we did, the Pats, Bills, Dolphins and Bucs would all get an A. But if we open it up to picks that rank 80 or better then we have: 2 teams with 4 (Eagles, Bengals) 8 teams with 3 (Rams, Dolphins, Vikings, Browns, Packers, Bucs, Steelers, Lions) 13 teams with 2 7 teams with 1 2 teams with NONE (Saints, Raiders) This does work good on a bell curve.  So if we assign a letter grade based on a bell for players ranked 80-100 we get the following: Team Total Picks Avg/Pk Avg/Top 4 />90 80-89 80+ Grade Bengals 737 10 73.70 89.0 1 3 4 A Eagles 607 9 67.44 86.8 1 3 4 A Rams 634 10 63.40 86.5 1 2 3 A Dolphins 613 9 68.11 86.3 1 2 3 B Vikings 634 10 63.40 84.5 1 2 3 B Browns 658 11 59.82 83.5 1 2 3 B Packers 501 8 62.63 83.3 1 2 3 B Buccaneers 438 7 62.57 82.5 2 1 3 B Steelers 503 9 55.89 82.0 1 2 3 B Lions 469 8 58.63 81.3 1 2 3 B Colts 623 10 62.30 86.5 1 1 2 C Panthers 457 7 65.29 84 1 1 2 C Bills 563 9 62.56 82.3 2 0 2 C Chargers 486 7 69.43 81.25 1 1 2 C Jets 467 8 58.38 81.3 2 0 2 C Chiefs 478 8 59.75 78.5 1 1 2 C Patriots 396 7 56.57 78.5 2 0 2 C Redskins 517 9 57.44 77.8 1 1 2 C Giants 442 7 63.14 77.5 0 2 2 C Cardinals 443 7 63.29 77 1 1 2 C Broncos 443 7 63.29 74.5 0 2 2 C Bears 338 6 56.33 69.5 1 1 2 C Jaguars 307 6 51.17 64.0 1 1 2 C Titans 481 7 68.71 78.8 0 1 1 D Texans 486 8 60.75 76.8 0 1 1 D 49ers 442 7 63.14 75.8 0 1 1 D Cowboys 387 6 64.50 74.3 1 0 1 D Seahawks 514 10 51.40 73.5 0 1 1 D Ravens 474 8 59.25 72.3 1 0 1 D Falcons 310 6 51.67 62.3 0 1 1 F Saints 249 5 49.80 54.25 0 0 0 F Raiders 266 6 44.33 54 0 0 0 F But if we look at the average ranking of the top 4 picks under the theory that you are lucky if you find 4 good players in a draft, we get a slightly different result.  The Colts move up to an A. Team Total Picks Avg/Pk Avg/Top 4 >90 80-89 80+ Grade Bengals 737 10 73.70 89.0 1 3 4 A Eagles 607 9 67.44 86.8 1 3 4 A Rams 634 10 63.40 86.5 1 2 3 A Colts 623 10 62.30 86.5 1 1 2 A Dolphins 613 9 68.11 86.3 1 2 3 B Vikings 634 10 63.40 84.5 1 2 3 B Panthers 457 7 65.29 84 1 1 2 B Browns 658 11 59.82 83.5 1 2 3 B Packers 501 8 62.63 83.3 1 2 3 B Buccaneers 438 7 62.57 82.5 2 1 3 B Bills 563 9 62.56 82.3 2 0 2 C Steelers 503 9 55.89 82.0 1 2 3 C Lions 469 8 58.63 81.3 1 2 3 C Chargers 486 7 69.43 81.25 1 1 2 C Jets 467 8 58.38 81.3 2 0 2 C Titans 481 7 68.71 78.8 0 1 1 C Chiefs 478 8 59.75 78.5 1 1 2 C Patriots 396 7 56.57 78.5 2 0 2 C Redskins 517 9 57.44 77.8 1 1 2 C Giants 442 7 63.14 77.5 0 2 2 C Cardinals 443 7 63.29 77 1 1 2 C Texans 486 8 60.75 76.8 0 1 1 C 49ers 442 7 63.14 75.8 0 1 1 C Broncos 443 7 63.29 74.5 0 2 2 D Cowboys 387 6 64.50 74.3 1 0 1 D Seahawks 514 10 51.40 73.5 0 1 1 D Ravens 474 8 59.25 72.3 1 0 1 D Bears 338 6 56.33 69.5 1 1 2 D Jaguars 307 6 51.17 64.0 1 1 2 D Falcons 310 6 51.67 62.3 0 1 1 F Saints 249 5 49.80 54.25 0 0 0 F Raiders 266 6 44.33 54 0 0 0 F
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

         I don't put much stock in this point system. For instance:

    1.) St. Louis Rams: Considering the quality and quantity of the picks they had, I thought that they did a lousy job. It was foolish of them to bypass Morris Claiborne at #6, and then force themselves into a need situation, where they felt obligated to spend their 39th and 65th overall selection on head case CBs, Janoris Jenkins, and Trumaine Johnson. Good teams with strong veteran leadership can afford to take a chance on a guy like Jenkins. But, for a young, rebuilding team like the Rams to do so makes no sense.
         Furthermore, how did they help Sam Bradford...who badly needs a LT to protect his blind-side? Yet, having the 6th, 33rd, 39th, and 65th picks at their disposal, they couldn't get that done? I would have loved their draft, had they selected Claiborne at #6, Brian Quick at #33, OT Cordy Glenn at #39, and DT Brandon Thompson at #65. Or, after making the Dallas trade, OLB Melvin Ingram at #14, WR Brian Quick at #33, OT Cordy Glenn at #39, DT Jerel Worthy at #45, and CB Trumaine Johnson or RB Isaiah Pead at #65;

    2.) Miami Dolphins: I don't see QB Ryan Tannehill being the answer...at least not enough the risk the 8th overall pick over. Taking him ruined what could have been a very productive draft. My choice at #8 would have been either DE/OLB Melvin Ingram, or LB "Crazy Luke" Kuechley...depending on the scouting reports. Other than that, the other picks Miami made seemed okay...accept I would have made some sort of move, which would have enabled me to select QB Kirk Cousins of Michigan State.  
      
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD :      I don't put much stock in this point system. For instance: 1.) St. Louis Rams: Considering the quality and quantity of the picks they had, I thought that they did a lousy job. It was foolish of them to bypass Morris Claiborne at #6, and then force themselves into a need situation, where they felt obligated to spend their 39th and 65th overall selection on head case CBs, Janoris Jenkins, and Trumaine Johnson. Good teams with strong veteran leadership can afford to take a chance on a guy like Jenkins. But, for a young, rebuilding team like the Rams to do so makes no sense.      Furthermore, how did they help Sam Bradford...who badly needs a LT to protect his blind-side? Yet, having the 6th, 33rd, 39th, and 65th picks at their disposal, they couldn't get that done? I would have loved their draft, had they selected Claiborne at #6, Brian Quick at #33, OT Cordy Glenn at #39, and DT Brandon Thompson at #65. Or, after making the Dallas trade, OLB Melvin Ingram at #14, WR Brian Quick at #33, OT Cordy Glenn at #39, DT Jerel Worthy at #45, and CB Trumaine Johnson or RB Isaiah Pead at #65; 2.) Miami Dolphins:  I don't see QB Ryan Tannehill being the answer...at least not enough the risk the 8th overall pick over. Taking him ruined what could have been a very productive draft. My choice at #8 would have been either DE/OLB Melvin Ingram, or LB "Crazy Luke" Kuechley...depending on the scouting reports. Other than that, the other picks Miami made seemed okay...accept I would have made some sort of move, which would have enabled me to select QB Kirk Cousins of Michigan State.     
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]
    Exactly, that's why grading drafts are impossible for at least 2-3 years when we have the benefit of history.  The Pats had 3 major needs on defense, a DL type who can rush the passer to replace Carter/Anderson.  They took Jones and Bequette.  So, they met that need.  How well these two perform in replacing the lost production remains to be seen.  We took Hightower who we didn't really need if he remains an ILB.  However, Spikes and Mayo seem to get hurt often enough that it is great to have such quality depth at the position, plus I'm sure BB will work him in at OLB too.  So, we covered DE and OLB pretty good with these 3 players.

    The other major need was at FS/nickel back.  Dennard is a good press corner so he might make an excellent player covering the slot whether it's a receiver, back or TE.  However, the Pats play mostly zone so in that scheme perhaps Wilson fits perfectly.  In any event, I think we've seen the last of Edelman back there.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    TP, I agree that the Rams and Dolphins took major risks but there are potential rewards. The Phins needed to make a real move for a QB. It's been 10 years since they've had a legit QB. They decided Tannehill would be the one that they'd risk the early pick on so good for them. Ge has all the tools to be a good QB and in the AFC East it may not take much to become the second best QB. Also Miami is putting together some talent around the position and can let more or Garrard start for a year. If they get a shot next year at an elite QB prospect, i doubt theyd hesitate to make the pick. For the Rams, I would have like to see them get Bradford more help. They did get him 3 decent offensive weapons via the draft and added Wells in free agency. It would have been nice to add more to the offensive line but they gave some other help at least. The defense should be much improved with the additions of Finnegan, Johnson and Jenkins in the secondary, and with Langford, Brockers and Laws at DT. They added high potential prospects that had low floors. A lot of players with risk attached to them. Little OL help.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2012 NFL Draft: REPORT CARD : Exactly, that's why grading drafts are impossible for at least 2-3 years when we have the benefit of history.  The Pats had 3 major needs on defense, a DL type who can rush the passer to replace Carter/Anderson.  They took Jones and Bequette.  So, they met that need.  How well these two perform in replacing the lost production remains to be seen.  We took Hightower who we didn't really need if he remains an ILB.  However, Spikes and Mayo seem to get hurt often enough that it is great to have such quality depth at the position, plus I'm sure BB will work him in at OLB too.  So, we covered DE and OLB pretty good with these 3 players. The other major need was at FS/nickel back.  Dennard is a good press corner so he might make an excellent player covering the slot whether it's a receiver, back or TE.  However, the Pats play mostly zone so in that scheme perhaps Wilson fits perfectly.  In any event, I think we've seen the last of Edelman back there.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

         The suspect that BB intends to use Hightower much like the Giants have used Justin Tuck. He'll move him around...and have him pass-rush from the inside. In a 4-3, I see him being used like BB used to use Lawrence Taylor in NY...as an edge rusher.  
     

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