***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Another year without a CB or will this be addressed in free agency?In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    Hey guys, enjoy reading these ideas. Watching our current team I feel strongly about strengthening our front four on defense. We really need more disruptors, more guys adept at 1 gap penetrating at tackle. The only guys we have on the roster consistently capable of doing so are Myron Pryor and Mike Wright and both have been injured alot over the last 2 years.  On the edge, as much as I like the production of Carter and Anderson, we should add more young talent there. We cannot overstate the importance of a great pass rush. The giants team of 2007 had a defensive line that made up for linebackers who were mediocre in coverage and a secondary that was well below par. I remain convinced we have the talent in the secondary outside of Free Safety already on the roster to be a great secondary. Pertaining to the offense; I would focus on adding 2 receivers. I would only target receivers who have proved in the college level to be great at running routes and competent at reading coverage. I do not want to see a guy drafted mainly because of his great measurables. The experience we have had with Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson and now Taylor Price have not inspired my confidence in our traing staff's ability to develop receivers. Get guys who are already good at doing the main things receivers are required to do and just focus on fine tuning the smaller stuff.  That being said, this is what I would do: Round 1, Pick 1: JEREL WORTHY DT- MICHIGAN STATE Has the best first step of all the DT's in this class and when on is by far the most dominant. Clearly the best pass rushing DT of 2011. Has problems with consistency that can be overcome with good coaching ala Carlos Dunlap from Florida a few years ago who has become a major contributor at Cincinatti. Round 1, Pick 2: VINNY CURRY DE- MARSHALL Accomplished pass rusher. Diverse moves. Could sub for Carter initially before taking over the LDE position. Criticism has been the low level competiition he has faced but he did well in a game I watched him play against Ohio State. I could also be okay with Brandon Jenkins from Florida State with this pick. Round 2, Pick 1: BRUCE IRVIN OLB - WEST VIRGINIA This guys game looks eerily similar to that of of Von Miller that its really exciting to think he could be had as a mid 2nd round pick. Great Speed off the edge, quite possible the best speed rusher in this years draft. Great Bull rush too. In nickel packages, he could be used as a pass rushing RDE much like Denver does with Von Miller. Round 2, Pick 2: KENNY VACCARO S- TEXAS Best coverage safety i have seen in a long time. Equally good at playing man and zone. Watched him shut out Ryan Broyles in man coverage earlier this year. Not sure if he will be declaring for the draft though. If not, I would consider trading up for Mark Barron in the event he were to slide into the second round. Round 3: JARIUS WRIGHT WR-ARK Great route runner, elite speed. A little undersized at 5-10, 180 but his experience in Arkansas' offense which has some similarities to what we run enables him to be a quick contributor. Big threat at short, intermediate and long routes. Round 4: GREG CHILDS WR- ARK Like his teammate above, Childs is also a great route runner but at 6-4 and 220 pounds offers great size to be a good posession big receiver. Expected to run around a 4.5 40 so may not be consistent deep threat but his great route running should help him get separation. I would also consider Juron Criner from Arizona with this position. Let me know what you guys think. Much thanks.
    Posted by speedster81

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    PatsEng Thanks for the thoughts. Im on board with you when it comes to Worthy. I would still take a chance on him late in the 1st if he were still there. The bowl game he played against Wisconsin was just pure domination. Watching him in that game got me excited thinking what he could do teamed next to Wilfork and 2 good edge rushers.Most teams would not be able to double both of them consistently in that case. Regarding Curry, I would love if he were still there late in the first. I have seen him go anywhere from mid 1st to end of the 3rd in some mocks. I hope he doesnt have a meteoric rise after the combine and workouts much like Brandon Graham had a few years back. If that were to happen, Melvin Ingram and Brandon Jenkins would be good alternatives.  I have seen Kendall Wright mocked as high as late in the first but havent seen much love given to Jarius Wright. Im hoping he stays hidden. This kid is going to make a big impact in a relatively short time. He looks so natural on the field. Crisp routes, great explosion in and out of his routes, very smart in zone knows where the holes are and has no problem going over the middle despite his size. TY Hilton is pretty good too but seems more like an athlete than receiver to me. He also will most likely go before Jairus. Bruce Irvin is currently listed at 6-3 and around 240 which is about where Von was listed before the combine. If i recall correctly Clay Matthews was also in that neighborhood. Really enamored with his closing speed and athleticism. More of a speed and bull rusher at this point but the kid has the talent to add more moves if he wants to. Back to back seasons of double digit sacks is pretty impressive. Im really hoping for a DT, 2 edge rushers, a coverage safety and 2 WR's in this draft. Its crazy to think that with a 10-3 team we have a chance at drafting at least 6 players who can not only start for us but can also be playmakers in our team. Crazy and exciting.
    Posted by speedster81


    lol Jarius Wright I got the wrong Wright. My bad, I've been consistently getting these two WR's mixed up all the time. Jarius would be in that 3rd range. He is similar to his other Wright counterpart but with less talent. Jarius didn't produce much against LSU who have NFL caliber CB's. If Kendell goes in the late 1st thi poor mans version should end up in the late 3rd
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Seattle - Going into the upcoming draft my first priority would be adding disruptors to the front four and an excellent coverage safety.A close second would be improving our outside passing game. I would be ok if we added 2 receivers in the second like you mentioned. If we did so, those 2 guys would have to be able to beat press consistently thus keeping Defensive Coordinators afraid of just flooding the interior with DB's and disrupting Brady's timing with his outside receivers.I would take a look at Marvin McNutt from Iowa who is great at running routes and being a former QB is pretty good at reading coverage. Mohammed Sanu and Kendall Wright would be two other guys who could be excellent receivers for us too.

    Jimmy - I really hope they dont get a CB this year. We have far greater needs. Maybe we could look at a guy in Free Agency but I think the current guys on the roster are more than enough to get the job done. The coaching staff just needs to do a better job of bringing them along.

    Pats - Lol, you clearly are not a big fan of Jarius. Kendall is definately a great receiver but I would hate to spend a first rounder on him. If he falls to mid second then that would be great.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    This could be a draft where no corners are drafted. Think about our recent investments in the position, plus who we added this season in terms of off the street. Not saying guys like Molden, Adams and Moore are our future, but each of them showed some promise, and you got to think as nickel/dime guys, they might be enough. Of course this all depends on how McCourty continues to develop, as well as, if Ras can stay on the field. McCourty and Ras could be our 2 starting CB's, with Arrington coming in to play the slot and in other packages, Molden, Moore as dime and depth. I'm okay with that group if McCourty continues to devleop and Ras plays.

    IF we do anythign with the CB position, I much prefer to go the FA route here and bring in a proven vet who can coach up McCourty and Ras.

    Like everyone's thoughts on Curry. He seems to be a consensus pick here, just need to understand where.

    I was on the Worthy train as well, but as I started to watch more of him, I became lukewarm. #3-#4DT might be about right. I'd rather have MB's guy Winn over him, and count me in on Stills and Thompson ahead of him as well.

    Also agree that this draft is deep at the WR position. This is finally the year to get it right and strike gold, but I want the defense fixed first in a big way.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    This could be a draft where no corners are drafted. Think about our recent investments in the position, plus who we added this season in terms of off the street. Not saying guys like Molden, Adams and Moore are our future, but each of them showed some promise, and you got to think as nickel/dime guys, they might be enough. Of course this all depends on how McCourty continues to develop, as well as, if Ras can stay on the field. McCourty and Ras could be our 2 starting CB's, with Arrington coming in to play the slot and in other packages, Molden, Moore as dime and depth. I'm okay with that group if McCourty continues to devleop and Ras plays. IF we do anythign with the CB position, I much prefer to go the FA route here and bring in a proven vet who can coach up McCourty and Ras. Like everyone's thoughts on Curry. He seems to be a consensus pick here, just need to understand where. I was on the Worthy train as well, but as I started to watch more of him, I became lukewarm. #3-#4DT might be about right. I'd rather have MB's guy Winn over him, and count me in on Stills and Thompson ahead of him as well. Also agree that this draft is deep at the WR position. This is finally the year to get it right and strike gold, but I want the defense fixed first in a big way.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    Lifer I think you're right on the CB front.

    We have a lot vested in McCourty and Ras at this point with Arrington being a solid CB. What we need is a solid every down CB and I don't think you take the risk with another high round CB considering what has already been invested. I think you need to bring in a CB in their prime to solidify the unit. Similar to their thinking with Bodden but with less injury risk.

    One interesting thing to note might be the emergence of Edelman as a nickel CB. It's obvious he's a STer at this point and won't be breaking into the WR lineup. However, he has shown good ability to keep plays in front of him and might actually be the most technical sound tackler in the CB unit right now. Some off-season training and more reps he might have found his niche.

    If you get a Vet to solidify the unit in rotation with Ras and McCourty as starting CB's then have Arrington and Edelman as nickel, dime CB's that might actually provide a solid unit (provided health of course). That leaves room for one extra CB for depth. Molden and Jones are nice stories but Moore has the ability to go S or CB so I'd feel Moore would get the nod.

    Unless a top level CB falls to a point where their value far outweighs needs in other positions I don't see use taking a CB. Jenkins might be the only CB in my eyes that could fall that far with that much talent
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Where do I start...

    My #1 want for this draft is (and I'm pissin' in the wind on this one) for them to move up and select the best impact player available, whether on defense (Kuechly, Claiborne, Burfict & Upshaw) or offense (Blackmon or Floyd).

    While this is unlikely to happen, I would still like to see them be aggressive in targeting and moving up a bit (if needed) to improve either side of the ball.

    Like most, I think improving the defense should be job #1 and they could use upgrades at all three levels, however I think the biggest pure need is in their secondary as they continue to perform horrendously. 

    Step one should be blowing up the coaching staff, specifically getting rid of DB coach Josh Boyer and starting fresh, however BB likely won't do it. HECK, I'D BET A WEEKS PAY THAT MIKE VRABEL WOULD BE A BETTER DB COACH DAY 1 THAN JOSH BOYER WILL EVER BE! 

    I'm at the point where I'm not even blaming BB (from a schematic perspective, I do blame him for acquiring inferior talent that has lead to this demise) as he likely schemes to have them in the correct positions, however they simply can't execute their assignments (get lost in zone) and play with poor technique (don't tackle well and have poor ball skills and awareness).  Additionally, how can you count on a kid like Dowling long-term as he wasn't able to stay healthy at the college level and things haven't changed in the NFL... talented kid with great size, but if you can't get on the field you aren't worth anything.

    What I want to see from a DB perspective:

    Come out of the draft/fa with 3 new DB's (2 S and 1 CB): 

    College S (Barron/Harrison Smith/McDonald/Lester etc.) 

    College CB (Stephon Gilmore/Chase Minnifield/Janoris Jenkins/Donnie Fletcher etc.). 

    FA S (Charles Godfrey /Michael Griffin etc.)

    FA CB (Cortland Finnegan/Brent Grimes/Tracy Porter etc.)

    That would allow them to replace the scrubs like Moore/Molden/Jones/Brown etc. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    mb, do u really see any chance of grabbing 3 DBs?  I think 2 is more realistic.  1 in the draft and 1 FA. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

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    mb, do u really see any chance of grabbing 3 DBs?  I think 2 is more realistic.  1 in the draft and 1 FA. 
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I do, yes.  They don't have to be (3) top tier plays, but they need 3 players that are better than the scrubs they're currently running out there.

    I don't see (2) safeties and (1) CB as unrealistic at all.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    speed,

    i saw the big 10 championship last night and i came out not sure if i am more convinced with worthy. i did see him on the opposing backfield a handful of times. but it's the way that he got there that concerns me. he looked like he was quick on the first step because he was guessing the snap. he actually got called offside one time and i don;t remember him penetrating after that. and when he got engaged, i did not see much from him. he did not have hands and i did not see his motor keep going.

    i am with the other guys here...that guy in boise state may be a better choice. i only saw one of their games but his motor jumped out on me. it kept going even after being engaged. to me the motor is indicative of mindset that iw ant from dline. he's a little light but at 6-4 he should easily get to 300 or even 310. getting  bigger will be necessary given teh size of olinement nowadays. normal to see 320-340. i don't know if he has teh quickness to overcome the biggies assuming he stays at 295.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    hey mb,

    Where do I start...

    My #1 want for this draft is (and I'm pissin' in the wind on this one) for them to move up and select the best impact player available, whether on defense (Kuechly, Claiborne, Burfict & Upshaw) or offense (Blackmon or Floyd).

    While this is unlikely to happen, I would still like to see them be aggressive in targeting and moving up a bit (if needed) to improve either side of the ball.

    glad to see you come around this year on these 2.

    Like most, I think improving the defense should be job #1 and they could use upgrades at all three levels, however I think the biggest pure need is in their secondary as they continue to perform horrendously.  

     

     i value dline and lb equally as most imp in draft.

    do your secondary, particularly cb in fa.

    Step one should be blowing up the coaching staff, specifically getting rid of DB coach Josh Boyer and starting fresh, however BB likely won't do it.HECK, I'D BET A WEEKS PAY THAT MIKE VRABEL WOULD BE A BETTER DB COACH DAY 1 THAN JOSH BOYER WILL EVER BE!  


    thank you for coming around on this as well.



    I'm at the point where I'm not even blaming BB (from a schematic perspective, I do blame him for acquiring inferior talent that has lead to this demise) as he likely schemes to have them in the correct positions, however they simply can't execute their assignments (get lost in zone) and play with poor technique (don't tackle well and have poor ball skills and awareness).  Additionally, how can you count on a kid like Dowling long-term as he wasn't able to stay healthy at the college level and things haven't changed in the NFL... talented kid with great size, but if you can't get on the field you aren't worth anything.

    What I want to see from a DB perspective:

    Come out of the draft/fa with 3 new DB's (2 S and 1 CB): 

    College S (Barron/Harrison Smith/McDonald/Lester etc.) 

    College CB (Stephon Gilmore/Chase Minnifield/Janoris Jenkins/Donnie Fletcher etc.). 

    FA S (Charles Godfrey /Michael Griffin etc.)

    FA CB (Cortland Finnegan/Brent Grimes/Tracy Porter etc.)

    That would allow them to replace the scrubs like Moore/Molden/Jones/Brown etc.

     

    nice post. 




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    speed, i saw the big 10 championship last night and i came out not sure if i am more convinced with worthy. i did see him on the opposing backfield a handful of times. but it's the way that he got there that concerns me. he looked like he was quick on the first step because he was guessing the snap. he actually got called offside one time and i don;t remember him penetrating after that. and when he got engaged, i did not see much from him. he did not have hands and i did not see his motor keep going. i am with the other guys here...that guy in boise state may be a better choice. i only saw one of their games but his motor jumped out on me. it kept going even after being engaged. to me the motor is indicative of mindset that iw ant from dline. he's a little light but at 6-4 he should easily get to 300 or even 310. getting  bigger will be necessary given teh size of olinement nowadays. normal to see 320-340. i don't know if he has teh quickness to overcome the biggies assuming he stays at 295.
    Posted by seattlepat70

    im giving mb all the credit for that one.

    the best tackles and lbs are likley going to be off the board if we hang around to 28-32

    we need multiple strategies on draft day including moving up and as i have said time and again, attempt to address all areas of need BEFORE THE DRAFT so we can be free to make plays to grab the best players able to dominate at their position in our schemes.

    we really look slow at linebacker.
    i hope we can get one in fa cause we need 2 starters imo

    and a penetrating dt and pass rushing de.





     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Looking at more draft boards, Im rethinking my original position of strictly going after 1 DT, 2DE's and a Free Safety with the first four picks. Most of the high ranked guys coming out in this years draft have a lot of warts to their game. We still have a 10-3 team that finished 14-2 last year thus I could argue that we have the luxury of picking the best players available on the board even though those players may not meet our biggest needs.

    For what its worth the current consensus on most boards has guys like Michael Floyd and Vontaze Burfict sliding to the 20's. Mark Barron is also a realistic possibility at that range. Floyd and Burfict are expected to slide due to some intangible issues but there is no denying the talent level of both. I would hope BB would trade up in a scenario where one or more of those guys were within reasonable striking distance. I really dont want to settle for a less talented guy because he presents better value at a later round.

    Ideally, picking the best player available withing striking distance could lead to a first round that looks like:

    Round 1; Pick 1: Michael Floyd: WR Notre Dame -- Elite Size, more than adequate speed, Good Hands. Im sure guys like mb who are Irish fans have a better take on him. In my opinion, probable the second best WR prospect in this class behind Blackmon.

    Round 1: Pick 2: Vontaze Burfict: LB ASU---- Great Ball player, superb instincts, great athleticism. Issues with playing out of control at times but imagine him with Spikes and Mayo as the starting LB's in a 4-3 and guys like Fletcher and Ninkovich rotating in. That a great core right there.

    When it comes to the 2nd round, the Oakland pick is pretty critical. Its vital it be a mid round 2nd. If it is, you have the ability to move up to grab a player who might have slid out of the first round for whatever reason without giving up too much. Maybe Vinny Curry, Brandon Jenkins, Jarvis Jones ,Kendall Wright or Mark Barron slide are attainable with this pick. The last 2nd rounder can be traded into next year or used if there is still a guy they really like hanging around.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    Looking at more draft boards, Im rethinking my original position of strictly going after 1 DT, 2DE's and a Free Safety with the first four picks. Most of the high ranked guys coming out in this years draft have a lot of warts to their game. We still have a 10-3 team that finished 14-2 last year thus I could argue that we have the luxury of picking the best players available on the board even though those players may not meet our biggest needs. For what its worth the current consensus on most boards has guys like Michael Floyd and Vontaze Burfict sliding to the 20's. Mark Barron is also a realistic possibility at that range. Floyd and Burfict are expected to slide due to some intangible issues but there is no denying the talent level of both. I would hope BB would trade up in a scenario where one or more of those guys were within reasonable striking distance. I really dont want to settle for a less talented guy because he presents better value at a later round. Ideally, picking the best player available withing striking distance could lead to a first round that looks like: Round 1; Pick 1: Michael Floyd: WR Notre Dame -- Elite Size, more than adequate speed, Good Hands. Im sure guys like mb who are Irish fans have a better take on him. In my opinion, probable the second best WR prospect in this class behind Blackmon. Round 1: Pick 2: Vontaze Burfict: LB ASU ---- Great Ball player, superb instincts, great athleticism. Issues with playing out of control at times but imagine him with Spikes and Mayo as the starting LB's in a 4-3 and guys like Fletcher and Ninkovich rotating in. That a great core right there. When it comes to the 2nd round, the Oakland pick is pretty critical. Its vital it be a mid round 2nd. If it is, you have the ability to move up to grab a player who might have slid out of the first round for whatever reason without giving up too much. Maybe Vinny Curry, Brandon Jenkins, Jarvis Jones ,Kendall Wright or Mark Barron slide are attainable with this pick. The last 2nd rounder can be traded into next year or used if there is still a guy they really like hanging around.
    Posted by speedster81


    speed,
    Welcome to the thread.

    Landing both Floyd and Burfict in Rd 1 is a bit optimistic IMO, though not 100% out of the question based on Floyd's off the field and Burfict's on the field issues.  I just think at the end of day, the talent would be too much for most teams to pass on as these are two of the pure impact talents in this class. Would I love to see both in Foxboro?  Hell yeah.

    Re: Michael Floyd-  I've seen probably every game he's played at ND and I agree that he's arguably the 2nd best WR available in this class, some would debate that he's the best.  He'll require some research by GM/Personnel men as he does have a history of DUI's, but assuming they are comfortable with him off the field, what you get on the field is an ultra-competitive #1 WR (a proven go to guy that has produced despite average talent at the QB position coupled with teams scheming to take him out of the offense) with great size, good speed, good feet/quicks, a lot of ability to create after the catch, the ability to seperate, good hands and ball skills, elite ability as a blocker (prob the best blocking WR in the nation).  He'll drop some catchable balls and will need some work on his routes, but there is no doubting that he's the full package.

    Barron is a no brainer for NE in Rd 1, IMO.  Below is my report on him:

    "He’s an experienced and versatile kid with experience lining up all over the field and within multiple coverages.  He’s a good sized kid that runs well, quickly reads the action and closes, is a solid yet physical tackler, is solid in coverage with excellent instincts and ball skills, he also brings some big play ability.  He also comes with the Saban/SEC pedigree.  He could be a day 1 starter at S for BB."
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

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    Seattle - Going into the upcoming draft my first priority would be adding disruptors to the front four and an excellent coverage safety.A close second would be improving our outside passing game. I would be ok if we added 2 receivers in the second like you mentioned...
    Posted by speedster81


    speed, i do not disagree that the front 7 needs a disruptor. i just do not see the individual in this class - at least not where the pats will be sitting during the draft. i do not believe that any of the DT or DEs  on the upcoming class would have made the first round if they came out last year.

    truth is...the pats is in need of a big improvement on every positon other than qb and te.

    some people might say we have solid LBs. i am with brd on this... the LB corps does not have enough speed. their pass d gives up so many completions on third down, just in front of the LBs. this tells me that the coaching staff does not trust they have enough speed and therefore they have to cheat a bit by having the LBs drop back just a little farther. and if the opposing team happens to be one with a good gorund game, dropping back the LBs means they get set up to give up 4-5 yards a pop on teh ground. and you do not imrove the lb unit by getting  a speed specialist. you want someone in there who can play run and the underneath pass. mayo i believe is the best LB. he makes tackles but a faster LB could probably make tackles a yard or two earlier.

    to me the best positions on this draft are WR (1st rnd through 3rd); CB/S (1st through 2nd); ILB/MLB (there are four who have 1st rnd talent). considering there wil be a few teams shooting for a qb, there is no reason the pats can't get a player in teh first 3 rnds who can make immediate impact.




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Thanks for the welcome mb. I must admit that it pains me to have to "settle" for the idea of picking a player in the early rounds that does not meet a great need that we may have. As said earlier, a stud DT and couple of DE's would be the fastest way to fix our D. However as seattle stated there are no clear cut great D Line players in this class at the positions we will be picking. I have made a case for Worthy but even he I must admit can be maddeningly inconsistent. Guys like upshaw and ingram while solid do not have that 'specialness'  that terribly excites me. Bruce Irvin, I would take if he fell to the late second round as he can provide an instant impact on sub packages as a rusher. 

    I keep on going back to the idea of trading up for special talents like Burfict, Floyd and Barron if they are within striking distance i.e if they fall to the early to mid 20's. There is a good chance that 2 of the aforementioned 3 will fall to that range. Heck offer Cincinatti our lower second rounder and switch both of our firsts with the 2 firsts they have and pick 2 of those guys if they are there. Throw in a fourth if that wont do it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

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    .... Bruce Irvin, I would take if he fell to the late second round as he can provide an instant impact on sub packages as a rusher.  I keep on going back to the idea of trading up for special talents like Burfict, Floyd and Barron if they are within striking distance i.e if they fall to the early to mid 20's. There is a good chance that 2 of the aforementioned 3 will fall to that range. ...
    Posted by speedster81


    you like burfict... i believe any of hightower, teo or kuelchy can bring what burfict brings.

    you like floyd as a receiver... as i have said, i'd take two WRs. blackmon, jeffrey and floyd will be gone by nwe's turn. i would not mind them picking two of the following (wherever appropriate and assuming all these kids come out):
    mcnutt, sanu, toon, broyles
    wright
    randle, hopkins, reynolds, hill
    kearse, robinson

    you like barron... i think they could pick one of other the top CB or S
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    Looking at more draft boards, Im rethinking my original position of strictly going after 1 DT, 2DE's and a Free Safety with the first four picks. Most of the high ranked guys coming out in this years draft have a lot of warts to their game. We still have a 10-3 team that finished 14-2 last year thus I could argue that we have the luxury of picking the best players available on the board even though those players may not meet our biggest needs. For what its worth the current consensus on most boards has guys like Michael Floyd and Vontaze Burfict sliding to the 20's. Mark Barron is also a realistic possibility at that range. Floyd and Burfict are expected to slide due to some intangible issues but there is no denying the talent level of both. I would hope BB would trade up in a scenario where one or more of those guys were within reasonable striking distance. I really dont want to settle for a less talented guy because he presents better value at a later round. Ideally, picking the best player available withing striking distance could lead to a first round that looks like: Round 1; Pick 1: Michael Floyd: WR Notre Dame -- Elite Size, more than adequate speed, Good Hands. Im sure guys like mb who are Irish fans have a better take on him. In my opinion, probable the second best WR prospect in this class behind Blackmon. Round 1: Pick 2: Vontaze Burfict: LB ASU ---- Great Ball player, superb instincts, great athleticism. Issues with playing out of control at times but imagine him with Spikes and Mayo as the starting LB's in a 4-3 and guys like Fletcher and Ninkovich rotating in. That a great core right there. When it comes to the 2nd round, the Oakland pick is pretty critical. Its vital it be a mid round 2nd. If it is, you have the ability to move up to grab a player who might have slid out of the first round for whatever reason without giving up too much. Maybe Vinny Curry, Brandon Jenkins, Jarvis Jones ,Kendall Wright or Mark Barron slide are attainable with this pick. The last 2nd rounder can be traded into next year or used if there is still a guy they really like hanging around.
    Posted by speedster81



     I would hope BB would trade up in a scenario where one or more of those guys were within reasonable striking distance. I really dont want to settle for a less talented guy because he presents better value at a later round.

    Ideally, picking the best player available withing striking distance could lead to a first round that looks like:

    i concur with the general thinking of nabbing the gamechangers within reach.
    however i dont know that i trust bb to trade up.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : speed, i do not disagree that the front 7 needs a disruptor. i just do not see the individual in this class - at least not where the pats will be sitting during the draft. i do not believe that any of the DT or DEs  on the upcoming class would have made the first round if they came out last year. truth is...the pats is in need of a big improvement on every positon other than qb and te. some people might say we have solid LBs. i am with brd on this... the LB corps does not have enough speed. their pass d gives up so many completions on third down, just in front of the LBs. this tells me that the coaching staff does not trust they have enough speed and therefore they have to cheat a bit by having the LBs drop back just a little farther. and if the opposing team happens to be one with a good gorund game, dropping back the LBs means they get set up to give up 4-5 yards a pop on teh ground. and you do not imrove the lb unit by getting  a speed specialist. you want someone in there who can play run and the underneath pass. mayo i believe is the best LB. he makes tackles but a faster LB could probably make tackles a yard or two earlier. to me the best positions on this draft are WR (1st rnd through 3rd); CB/S (1st through 2nd); ILB/MLB (there are four who have 1st rnd talent). considering there wil be a few teams shooting for a qb, there is no reason the pats can't get a player in teh first 3 rnds who can make immediate impact.
    Posted by seattlepat70

    nice posts seattle and everybody.

    agreed on the safeties, lbs and wrs in this draft
    still id rather have the def backfield from fa.

    if we could get one of the top dt's and de's in this draft and a top lb
    or 2 of the top lbs and an elite de or dt. i would be stoked and by next year or the year after we'd have a shot at the super bowl imo (sure bb screwed up last years draft on defense, doesnt mean he has to do that again this year).

    if we got a true wideout in fa, and maybe even a lb (to go along with fs and possibly cb if we want to add there), we could be free to grab the best playmakers within reach (esp on defense and wr + te)


    i really dont want to see bb dedicate any more picks to def backfield, nor do i trust his judgement.

    in fact id love to see him pick the universal best player available where we draft or above
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    ok where are all you posters on this thread?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    ok where are all you posters on this thread?
    Posted by bredbru


    I don't know about anyone else but it's the slow time between the end of the college season and bowl games.

    I'm trying to pull up some data and watching some vid on a couple of players. Sometime this week or next I'm going to try to put together my top 10 in DT/NT, DE, OLB, CB, S, and WR. This is a good time to review some sleepers too
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    I'm ok with trotting out McCourty, Chung and Ras-I one more year and hoping they stay out of the trainer's room.  I think the real issue is a lack of veteran leadership in the secondary.  Chung has the makings of good leader going forward, but I think Bill needs to find a capable guy in FA to take charge of this group.  I would take shot at Goldston, who they've already expressed an interest in signing, or Michael Griffin.  Neither guy is the next Rodney Harrison but I think they could bring some element of his play back to Patriots. 

    In the draft, they need to add a couple impact front 7 guys.  A DT/DE that can play the run strong and bring pressure on 3rd down.  There's just too many guys that are all some variation of the same player(Wilfork, Prior, Deaderick, Brace) and not enough disruptive playmakers.  Adding 2 of the following would go a long way towards improving their front 7: Devon Still, Vinny Curry, Billy Winn, Jerel Worthy. 

    In summary:

    FA:

    target D. Goldston/L. Landry/Michael Griffin
    Eddie Royal

    Draft:

    1a) Devon Still/J. Worthy
    1b) Vinny Curry/B. Winn
    2a) Mohamed Sanu
    2b) Mike Brewster
    3) Ryan Broyles
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    My top 10 34 DE's/43 DT's/34 NT’s of the 2011 draft. Players marked in GREEN I see as fits for the Pats. Those marked in RED I don’t see as fits or won’t be in spot where Pats would pick

     

    #1 Quinton Coples, NC - 6'6" 285lbs

    51 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 1 FF

     

    Coples is the clear cut #1 DE in this draft. He faces double teams every week and still gets into the backfield on a regular basis. He's faces strong teams and still provide consistent solid play similar to his 10' season. I'd analyse more but chances are he's not making out of the top 15 imo so I don't think we have a shot at him. Projected round top 15


    #2 Devon Still, Penn State – 6’5” 310lbs

    55 tackles, 17 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 PD

    Still’s might be the only sure first 1st round DT in this draft. He has the size that BB loves that can flex from DT in a 43 to a rushing 34 DE. Consistently double team he could still bull rush into the backfield and creates plays behind the line of scrimmage. His long arms become a nightmare for RB’s trying to rush up the middle. He also has 5’s speed with a quick initial burst that interior OL has trouble compensating for. Has good technique with solid hand use. If he falls into the 20’s BB should look to move up and grab Still’s.  Projected round 15-25 pick 1st round

     

    #3 Brandon Thompson, Clemson – 6’2” 310lbs

    45 tackles, 6.5 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 1 FF

    Thompson has been one of the most consistent DT’s in the draft. Very strong against the run pushing double teams into the backfield. Very strong at POA and good at reading rush coverage and fill gaps. Doesn’t have many moves to get to the rusher Thompson uses his strength to bull rush. Not great hand use or technique and would be removed during passing downs. He’s a poor man’s version of Wilfork. I would not be looking for the Pats to draft him with Wilfork and Love up the middle. Projected round late 1st-mid 2nd

     

    #4 Fletcher Cox, Miss State – 6’4” 295lbs

    49 tackles, 12.5 TFL, 4 sacks, 1 FF

    Cox started off slow after a 1 game suspension but came in strong with good games against Alabama and Arkansas. Cox has tremendous talent with great speed for a guy his size. He’s a force at the line that can get into the backfield. Uses leverage to his advantage getting lower to knock OL on their heels and powers though. Has enough speed to burst through the line if the OL aren’t paying attention. Should stay in school for an additional year but because of the weak DT in this draft might come out and try to cash in. Could be a find in the 2nd. Project round late 1st-mid 2nd

     

    #5 Alameda Ta’amu, Wash – 6’3” 330lbs

    28 tackles, 7 TFL, 3.5 sacks

    Ta’amu is a heavy bolder to move. He’s the A typical anchor NT. Double teamed most of the year it was difficult to push him off the line and create space for running lanes up the A gaps. He’s on the slow side and don’t expect him to run plays down. He can bull rush the pocket backwards but don’t expect him to collapse the pocket and hit the QB. Can be neutralized at the line with the right protection package but still needs to be accounted for. If you need an anchor to build around on a 34 front Ta’amu would not be a bad start provided you aren’t expecting him to provide a pass rush. As with Thompson I don’t see him as a target for the Pats if they trust Love and Wilfork to anchor the line. Projected round late 1st-mid 2nd


    #6 Jerel Worthy, Michigan State – 6’3” 305lbs

    25 tackles,  8.5 TFL, 3.5 sacks

    Worthy was inconsistent all year. He’s had times where he’s looked dominant and other times where he’s disappeared. He reminds me of Haynesworth for the reasons why he disappears. He will occasionally give up on plays if double teamed or if initial move does not work. His conditioning is an issue and gets to up right. When his bull rush or initial burst beats a blocker though he makes plays happen off the line. His long arms can get to RB’s which forces many to bounce outside. He’s a classic case of ability far outweighing desire. If a coach can convince Worthy to condition his body and try every down he can be a player you need to plan around but the question lingers what will it take to get him to focus? I expect him to return to school and try to improve his stock before next year’s draft. Projected round 2nd

     

    #7 Derek Wolfe, Cincinnati – 6’5” 300lbs

    64 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 2 FF

    Wolfe could be the big riser right before the draft. He had a great break out season this year posting some of the best numbers for a DT this season. He has the right size and great speed with good technique and never gives up on plays. His hand use opened up opportunities to rush the gap and track down the QB quickly. The only reason he doesn’t rank higher is because he wasn’t double teamed and the level of competition he faced. He has tremendous upside though and if BB decides to pass on a DT in the 1st I expect him to take a long look at Wolfe heading into the 2nd. Projected round late 1st-3rd

     

    #8 Dontari Poe, Memphis – 6’5” 350lbs

    33 tackles, 8 TFL, 1 sack, 1 FF

    Poe is a space eater. You put him in on goal line and short yardage situations and he won’t give an inch. I’ve seen him take on 3 blockers and drive them back a foot. The issue comes that he won’t set any land speed records anytime soon. Where you put him is where you can expect him to stay. He will plug gaps and RB’s shouldn’t even try to run in his general direction but unless the ball carrier is within his arm reach don’t expect him to make a play. Projected round 2nd -3rd

     

    #9 Jared Crick, Nebraska – 6’6” 285lbs

    22 tackles, 2.5 TFL, 1 sack, 1 PD

    Crick started out the season as one of the top 5 DT’s then inconsistent play and injury came in. He showed flashes of why he should have been considered as a possible late 1st talent but then would disappear. Once he tore his pectoral muscle his slide started. It’s hard to judge where he ends up but this last year was a disaster for a guy hoping to be taken day 1. Projected round 3rd-6th


     #10 Kawann Short, Purdue – 6’3” 305lbs

    53 tackles, 17 TFL, 6.5 sacks, 1 FF, 2 blocked kicks

    Short is an interesting case. He has had little support around him and still produced. It would be interested to debate whether the lack of support helped his numbers or hurt them. He had a huge game against Ohio State and shows a good set of tools but does not excel in any particular area. He’s a solid all around DT that should return back to school and develop a niche. If he finds that one area he excels at combined with his overall above average play in all facets of his position he can become a 1st round selection next year. Projected round 2nd-4th

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    My top 10 34 OLB's/43 DE's/43 OLB’s of the 2011 draft. Players marked in GREEN I see as fits for the Pats. Those marked in RED I don’t see as fits or won’t be in spot where Pats would pick

     

    #1 Courtney Upshaw, Alabama – 6’2” 260lbs

    46 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 1 int

    Upshaw is a clear 1st round OLB. With Hightower they could be the best LB duo in the college game. Upshaw isn’t fast as an OLB but does a decent job in coverage. His main assets are his ability to get to the QB and get behind the line of scrimmage. He’s a patient tackler when he needs to set the edge on screens and running plays but when the lease gets taken off 1 blocker just isn’t enough to prevent him from making plays. Even his stats don’t accurately reflect how disruptive his game is as teams did not run on his edge, rolling blockers over his side, and it’s obvious other teams’ game planned around Upshaw. Project round top 20

     

    #2 Vinny Curry, Marshall – 6’5” 260lbs

    69 tackles, 11 sacks, 5 FF

    Once again Curry is in double digit sacks for the season. Part of this might be competition but Curry has played consistently regardless of opponent over the last 2 seasons. He is over 20 TFL and is always in the backfield. He’s fast, explosive and powerful all things you can’t teach but needs work on some of his moves. With the right coaching he might be the best 34 OLB/43 DE pass rusher in the draft IMO. Teams would send extra blockers over in his direction and he still managed to beat them on a regular basis. Just don’t ask him to drop back in pass coverage but will make a ton of plays in the backfield. Projected round mid 1st – mid 2nd

     

    #3 Melvin Ingram, SC – 6’4” 275lbs

    44 tackles, 12 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 2 int

    Melvin has the size BB likes in his 43 DE’s or as an elephant in a 34 OLB. He has decent speed and can hold his own in coverage. He started the year off slow but really came into his own as the season progressed putting up numbers that showed being the 3rd best pass rusher last year was no fluke. He is a good overall in run and pass defender and will not hurt the team being on the field for 3 downs no matter the scheme but excels in pass rushing. I expect his stock to rise as we get closer to the draft. Projected round late 1st – 2nd   

     

    #4 Brandon Jenkins, Florida State – 6’3” 265lbs

    39 tackles, 11 TFL, 7.5 sacks

    Jenkins is a fairly solid overall DE/OLB and his numbers don’t accurately reflect his play. On the same note Jenkins does let media reports get into his head which might turn out to be a negative. He has all the tools to be one of the best DE/OLB’s in the draft however; he has taken a step backwards from his impressive 10’ season. With some coaching and the proper schemes he should return to form and become that double digit sack generator who provides solid overall 3 down play. Projected round late 1st – 2nd

     

    #5 Frank Alexander, Oklahoma – 6’4” 255lbs

    51 tackles, 15 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 2 FF, 1 int, 6 PD

    He gets into the backfield and creates turn over’s. Some might see his teammate Lewis as the better prospect but by my eye test Alexander has the instincts and x-factor that Lewis doesn’t have. He has provided consistent pressure in the rush while also providing solid coverage dropping back. A large set of rushing moves means he won’t require a lot of coaching to be plugged out of camp, which should entice BB. He could be a target with the Oak pick if they don’t take a DE/OLB with one of their 1st’s. Projected round late 1st-mid 2nd

     

    #6 Chase Thomas, Stanford – 6’4” 240lbs

    51 tackles, 10 sacks, 5 FF

    Thomas has been a turn over machine. Given he plays for Stanford you expect a lot of production given competition but, he’s been consistent during the year. He’s fast and strong and takes advantage of his strengths. He’s also a very intelligent player and seems to find the right moments to take chances at creating a turn over and when to not take the risk and just to wrap up. He can track down runners from behind and is very aggressive on the plays. After his partner was lost to injury you would expect a drop off in production but he held steady and finished out the year strong. Project round 2nd – 3rd

     

    #7 Ronnie Lewis, Oklahoma – 6’2” 245lbs

    59 tackles, 13 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 1 int, 1 FF, 5 PD

    The only reason Lewis isn’t right behind his counterpart Alexander is because IMO some of his production came off of Alexander. Even still Lewis is a very good all around OLB much like Alexander. He has dropped back and provided solid coverage and has been affective rushing the passer. The one advantage Lewis has over Alexander is his speed which helps him cut off runners trying to push the edge. Whether you’d like Lewis for his run stopping or Alexander for his pass rushing both are very solid OLB’s and it’s hard to go wrong with either. Projected round 2nd


    #8 Devin Taylor, SC – 6’7” 260lbs

    28 tackles, 7 TFL, 5 sacks, 2 PD, 1 int

    Taylor started off extremely slow but came back to his 10’ form that turned some heads. With his size, speed, and length he’s an ideal flex play that can wreak havoc with a QB’s passing lanes. Taylor is good in coverage and can rush the QB but still needs some work to smooth out some edges. My gut tells me that he goes back to school to improve his stock and will be a hot commodity next year. Projected round late 2nd-3rd  

     

    #9 Nick Perry, USC – 6’3” 250lbs

    55 tackles, 13 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 2 PD, 3 FF

    Perry has been consistently good at USC. Even when they are playing for nothing but pride he still put up good numbers for one of the top teams in the league. He could very well jump up to the top 5 in my top 10 but his play against top T’s needed some work. The more athletic T’s can hold him in check as he relies too much on his speed at time and not enough on developing moves. If he were to go back for another year and develops a couple more moves he could be a top 15 player next year along with Taylor. If he comes out this year he could go early or late because of his 10’ season and only showing 1 really productive season. Projected round 2nd – 4th

     

     #10 Bruce Irvin, W Virginia – 6’2” 235lbs

    38 tackles, 13 TFL, 7.5 sacks

    Irvin looks impressive but he might only have 1 tool (his speed). He’s got speed to burn but athletic T’s have kept him in check all year. He’s currently a liability in the running game and can hurt you in coverage. He is a stand up OLB at the next level that needs to develop more moves at the next level to survive. His size might scare BB off not to mention his 1 tool niche as a pass rusher. Projected round 3rd – 5th

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    PatsEng - Great work with the analysis. Ill have to check out some of the names in your list. Wondering what your take is on Shea Mclellin DE/OLB from Boise State.
     
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