***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    From rotoworld, and if true we'd might have to take McClellin at #27; given GB also has their sights on McClellin:

    After doing film study of Boise State LB/DE Shea McClellin, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes McClellin has a chance to develop into a "dynamic edge pass rusher" in the pros.

    Cosell specifically cited McClellin's ability to "bend the edge," a trait for which 2011 Defensive Rookie of the Year Von Miller was praised coming out of Texas A&M. Cosell observed some similarities to Clay Matthews in McClellin's game tape. With his pre-draft stock also seemingly building, McClellin now looks like a solid bet to be drafted late in the first round.

    Could McClellin be BB's white whale? He said he regretted not taking Matthews, could BB be looking at McClellin as his second chance with the size he likes?
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    From rotoworld, and if true we'd might have to take McClellin at #27; given GB also has their sights on McClellin: After doing film study of Boise State LB/DE Shea McClellin, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes McClellin has a chance to develop into a "dynamic edge pass rusher" in the pros. Cosell specifically cited McClellin's ability to "bend the edge," a trait for which 2011 Defensive Rookie of the Year Von Miller was praised coming out of Texas A&M. Cosell observed some similarities to Clay Matthews in McClellin's game tape. With his pre-draft stock also seemingly building, McClellin now looks like a solid bet to be drafted late in the first round. Could McClellin be BB's white whale? He said he regretted not taking Matthews, could BB be looking at McClellin as his second chance with the size he likes?
    Posted by PatsEng


    Assuming both Hightower and McClellin are on the board at 27, who you taking?

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Assuming both Hightower and McClellin are on the board at 27, who you taking?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07
    \

    I don't think nether changes my opinion. I'm aiming at Brockers first and foremost. If Brockers is off the board at #27 then I'd be looking at Reyes, Perry, Curry, Barron, and McClellin. If for some odd reason they are all gone I'd be looking Still, Branch, Wright, Hill but I doubt we'd get that far down the list.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : \ I don't think nether changes my opinion. I'm aiming at Brockers first and foremost. If Brockers is off the board at #27 then I'd be looking at Reyes, Perry, Curry, Barron, and McClellin. If for some odd reason they are all gone I'd be looking Still, Branch, Wright, Hill but I doubt we'd get that far down the list.
    Posted by PatsEng


    I'll ask it a different way, who's higher on your board, Hightower or McClellin though by what you've mentioned above I'd guess McClellin as you didn't mention Dont'a.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'll ask it a different way, who's higher on your board, Hightower or McClellin though by what you've mentioned above I'd guess McClellin as you didn't mention Dont'a.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I'd only say McClellin because I've seen McClellin on the edge more often so I know he can line up with a 2 point, 3 point, or standing up. Most of what I've seen of Hightower was many in the ILB position with the occasional edge setup. Given Spikes/Mayo and both players have similar upside I'd rather have a guy I know for sure can line up on the edge.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'd only say McClellin because I've seen McClellin on the edge more often so I know he can line up with a 2 point, 3 point, or standing up. Most of what I've seen of Hightower was many in the ILB position with the occasional edge setup. Given Spikes/Mayo and both players have similar upside I'd rather have a guy I know for sure can line up on the edge.
    Posted by PatsEng


    Gotcha.

    I'm more optimistic on Hightower's ability off the edge, think he has a high ceiling as a passrusher and IMO, projects as an awesome fit as a (3) down player on the outside at the NFL level.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***":
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : \ I don't think nether changes my opinion. I'm aiming at Brockers first and foremost. If Brockers is off the board at #27 then I'd be looking at Reyes, Perry, Curry, Barron, and McClellin. If for some odd reason they are all gone I'd be looking Still, Branch, Wright, Hill but I doubt we'd get that far down the list. Posted by PatsEng
    Where is your guy Wolfe? I am assuming that brockers and Barron don't make 27. If I had to choose between Reyes, Hightower, McClellin, still, perry at 27, I think I take McClellin and wait to 31 or round 2 to grab Wolfe instead of Reyes or still, and possibly come back with Martin in later 2 or 3. I like McClellin, Wolfe, Martin as my front 7 guys. If for some reason Gilmore is there, I might grab him instead at 31. However, I like trading 31 into round 2 and 3-4 picks.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***": Where is your guy Wolfe? I am assuming that brockers and Barron don't make 27. If I had to choose between Reyes, Hightower, McClellin, still, perry at 27, I think I take McClellin and wait to 31 or round 2 to grab Wolfe instead of Reyes or still, and possibly come back with Martin in later 2 or 3. I like McClellin, Wolfe, Martin as my front 7 guys. If for some reason Gilmore is there, I might grab him instead at 31. However, I like trading 31 into round 2 and 3-4 picks.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    Wolfe to me I'd take at #48 at the earliest depending on how and where the other DE's are taken and #63 at the latest. At #27 would be a reach, not because I don't think his potential isn't that high but because I don't think anyone would take him before #48, so why not get another high end player while you're at it

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Is McClellin this year's Barwin, Reed, Sheard???  Seems that name not only here but all over is getting a lot of looks.  Started out as a 4th round projection I believe, up to some believing he will end up a 1st rounder.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Akiem Hicks has similar raw potential as Brockers but could be had with our 4th.
     
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    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***":
    Akiem Hicks has similar raw potential as Brockers but could be had with our 4th. Posted by Faucetman
    I like him, but from everything I have read, he seems like a boom or bust type of player. Most analysts talk about him as a solid contributor, not a starting, impact type of player that brockers is typically talked about. I know it's round 1 vs 4, but we already have a deaderick, love and Pryor, and to me, hicks would fall into this group, not be a significant upgrade over it...at least initially. To me, he is the same discussion as a Kheeston Randall.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Akiem Hicks has similar raw potential as Brockers but could be had with our 4th.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I'm not sure where you are seeing the raw potential.

    Brockers has Seymour type of upside. If he stayed in school for one more you he was a favorite to be a top 10 pick next year. Playing for LSU he saw Pro ready players and pro style O's and was able to make plays at the line.

    Hicks went to Canada after a recruiting violation and wasn't dominant up in Canada. He showed flashes but when you are playing in the CIS you should be dominant. Because he was the biggest player in the CIS he relied completely on his size and didn't develop any techniques, hand use, or how to disengage. To many times at the Shrine he's locked up with a G and could disengage. He also appears to give up when engaged if the straight bull rush fails.

    Hicks might be extremely raw but he has no where near the upside Brockers does. Hicks to me is closer to a Deadrick type of player then a Brockers.

    I'd much rather have a Brockers, Still, Reyes, Wolfe, Randall, Jean-Baptiste, Crick, or Martin over Hicks any day
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Is McClellin this year's Barwin, Reed, Sheard???  Seems that name not only here but all over is getting a lot of looks.  Started out as a 4th round projection I believe, up to some believing he will end up a 1st rounder.
    Posted by Pats7393

    Yes, he will be in high demand.  Not sure if he makes it out of the first.  GB or BAL.  But BAL would take Konz if he's there.  When everyone else is hot on a player, we are seldom the ones to get him.  But Chandler Jones is a player I'm hearing linked to the Pats a lot. Rumor has it BB regretted not taking Clay Matthews so maybe this time he will use both picks, but I doubt it.

    But for me going by history, I think he takes the guy he wants at 27 then trades 31 back.  There should be a lot of action from teams looking to take care of business on Day 1 so they can reset their boards.  It could be any team but by way of example, let's say BUF takes Floyd or Blackmon at #9 because Reiff is off the board.  They have to move back up to 31 ahead of the Giants and others to get a LT in Jonathan Martin or Mike Adams.  We move back to pick 41 and pick up their 2013 2nd.

    My buddy out here who is a huge Chargers' fan said Gregory is a wasted signing and might not make the team.  So our hole at FS remains huge.  Therefore I'm sticking with Harrison Smith at 27 because BAL is sitting at 29 and Ed Reed isn't going to play forever.

    I no longer see us drafting a DE/OLB conversion type early now that we signed Carpenter and Scott and still have Cunningham.  BB never drafts them early anyway as the bust potential has been huge over the years.

    #27   S Harrison Smith- Our biggest need is at Safety.  I don't agree with the idea of moving McCourty to the middle and starting essentially two rookies (Dowling and Jenkins) that would be foolish.  Smith brings size, smarts, leadership and attitude.  I think he can cover the TE in the seam aid in run support and be the stopper when Chung gets hurt as he always does. 
    #31   Traded for '13 2nd and #41)
    #41   CB Janoris Jenkins- Character concerns causes this kid to slip into the second round.  We saw Mallett drop to the 3rd last year and he had far fewer concerns.  Since we now have three 2nds, BB will take the risk and Jenkins will compete with Dowling from Day 1.
    #48   Traded for 2013 first to New Orleans.  Not having a draft pick in the first two rounds this year, NO is desperate to get into the action.
    #62   RB LaMichael James- Woodhead was horrible returning kicks last year and his overall production was down, plus he is only signed through 2012.  James is much better in the return game and has more shake and bake and big play ability. 
    #93   WR Ryan Broyles- Welker is likely done after this season as the Pats will never give a $10MM/year deal to a slot receiver.  Not finding enough value in a trade, the Pats agree not to tag Welker next year and he signs his tender.  Edelman is also a F/A after 2012 so a new slot receiver is badly needed.  Broyles was a #1 pick before his ACL and with a full year to cover and learn, the Pats start him on the PUP saving a roster spot and have him ready to go later in the year if needed, or in 2013.
    #126  DT Akiem Hicks- We have not seen the Pats use a high pick on the DL since Wilfork in 2004 (I'm not counting Brace because he was drafted specifically as an insurance policy to Wilfork holding out).  Since then they have been drafting DL late or getting them in F/A (Deaderick, Love, Pryor)  Hicks was originally recruited by LSU but ended up playing in Canada.  He has tremendous size and raw power.  Since the top DL prospects are long gone the Pats take this kid to groom and coach up.

    We've addressed our needs in the secondary, big time! We added a couple of play makers in James who will see action on special teams and perhaps 3rd downs and Broyles who takes over for Welker and possibly Edelman in 2013.  Then we added a massive 6-5, 318 34 DE type who can start learning right away and be ready to really contribute next year.  ...and by the way, we have a pair of 1sts and 2nds again next year, as always:)).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Afternoon Boys,

    Below is my Mock V3, this will be my last projection until Draft Day. As you all probably know by now, Mark Barron is the top player on my board and has been since very early on. 

    I’m also realistic to the fact that he’ll prob be off the board when NE is slotted to select at both 27 and 31, if he isn’t, he’s my guy. 

    ü  The top of my Rd 1 Board today looks like this, though I think all too will likely be gone by 27/31:  

    S- Mark  Barron
    DL- Fletcher Cox
    DL- Michael Brockers
    OLB- Courtney Upshaw
    CB- Dre Kirkpatrick 

    ü  I’m also of the belief that when all is said and done, BB will likely have traded one of, if not both of his Rd 1 picks due to some combo of maybe moving up into the early 20’s to draft a player that is sliding a bit and/or to move back to acquire more picks for this year and the future as he seems to do every year.

    With that being said, below is my projection, not factoring in potential trades: 

    27-
    Dont’a Hightower- LB- Alabama- If the others are gone and this kid’s on the board, I think he makes too much sense for them.   A lot of experience against elite competition, has excellent upside as an edge rusher, is well versed in a BB style 34 scheme, kid also has good size, improved movement ability (another year removed from surgery) is versatile and IMO can play any LB position in both 34 & 43 sets and also has some value as a rush end in a 43 set.  Alternative: Stephon Gilmore- CB/S- South Carolina.

    31-
    Kendall Reyes- DL- UConn- Very good character/team captain, good size and athleticism, scheme diverse and has a big motor.  He’s another kid that fits the Patriot’s player profile and I think he’d be an excellent addition upfront.  Alternatives:  Shea McClellin- OLB/ILB/DE- Boise State. / Doug Martin- RB- Boise State. 

    48-
    Harrison Smith- S- ND- Very good size, moves well, very instinctive and always around the football, good ball skills, good tackler with knockout potential, has the ability to play in the deep half/third as well as down in the box and is very strong is run support.  He’s also a team leader/captain with very good character; another great fit in NE. Alternatives: Josh Robinson- CB- UCF / Brandon Thompson- DL- Clemson. 

    62-
    Jayron Hosley- CB- VT- Elite instincts and ball skills in the passing game, projects as an excellent zone CB at the NFL level and brings added value in the return game…  kid has big play potential as both a defender and return man.  He's not big, but doesn't shy away from contact and gives good effort in run support. Alternatives:  Bobby Massie- OT- Ole Miss / Amini Silatolu- OG- Midwestern State. 

    93
    - Senio Kelemete- OG/OT- Washington- Versatile kid that’s played OT and OG during his time at UW, he’s also an athletic kid that moves very well for his size, plays with aggression and nastiness, can pull/play in space and would look great at OG across from Mankins. Alternatives:  Cam Johnson- OLB/DE- Virginia / Marvin Jones- WR- Cal. / Derek Wolfe- DL- Cincinnati / George Iloka- S- Boise State. 

    126-
    Greg Childs- WR- Arkansas- This would be a great value pick IMO, as the kid has Rd 1/2 talent (he could also be an option in Rd 3).  Very good size/speed combo, good quicks and RAC ability, physical player with upside as a blocker and isn’t afraid to work the middle of the field.  He’s also well schooled in a pro-style offense and BB should be familiar with him due to time spent scouting Ryan Mallet. Alternatives:  Devon Wylie- WR- Fresno State / Ron Brooks CB/S LSU / Jake Bequette- DE/OLB- Arkansas / Joe Adams- WR/RS- Arkansas.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    TY Hilton at 94.  He'll be our next Wes Welker.
    Posted by Faucetman


    only if he's learned to keep that ball close to his body. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Yes, he will be in high demand.  Not sure if he makes it out of the first.  GB or BAL.  But BAL would take Konz if he's there.  When everyone else is hot on a player, we are seldom the ones to get him.  But Chandler Jones is a player I'm hearing linked to the Pats a lot. Rumor has it BB regretted not taking Clay Matthews so maybe this time he will use both picks, but I doubt it. But for me going by history, I think he takes the guy he wants at 27 then trades 31 back.  There should be a lot of action from teams looking to take care of business on Day 1 so they can reset their boards.  It could be any team but by way of example, let's say BUF takes Floyd or Blackmon at #9 because Reiff is off the board.  They have to move back up to 31 ahead of the Giants and others to get a LT in Jonathan Martin or Mike Adams.  We move back to pick 41 and pick up their 2013 2nd. My buddy out here who is a huge Chargers' fan said Gregory is a wasted signing and might not make the team.  So our hole at FS remains huge.  Therefore I'm sticking with Harrison Smith at 27 because BAL is sitting at 29 and Ed Reed isn't going to play forever. I no longer see us drafting a DE/OLB conversion type early now that we signed Carpenter and Scott and still have Cunningham.  BB never drafts them early anyway as the bust potential has been huge over the years. #27   S Harrison Smith - Our biggest need is at Safety.  I don't agree with the idea of moving McCourty to the middle and starting essentially two rookies (Dowling and Jenkins) that would be foolish.  Smith brings size, smarts, leadership and attitude.  I think he can cover the TE in the seam aid in run support and be the stopper when Chung gets hurt as he always does.  #31   Traded for '13 2nd and #41) #41   CB Janoris Jenkins - Character concerns causes this kid to slip into the second round.  We saw Mallett drop to the 3rd last year and he had far fewer concerns.  Since we now have three 2nds, BB will take the risk and Jenkins will compete with Dowling from Day 1. #48   Traded for 2013 first to New Orleans.   Not having a draft pick in the first two rounds this year, NO is desperate to get into the action. #62   RB LaMichael James - Woodhead was horrible returning kicks last year and his overall production was down, plus he is only signed through 2012.  James is much better in the return game and has more shake and bake and big play ability.  #93   WR Ryan Broyles - Welker is likely done after this season as the Pats will never give a $10MM/year deal to a slot receiver.  Not finding enough value in a trade, the Pats agree not to tag Welker next year and he signs his tender.  Edelman is also a F/A after 2012 so a new slot receiver is badly needed.  Broyles was a #1 pick before his ACL and with a full year to cover and learn, the Pats start him on the PUP saving a roster spot and have him ready to go later in the year if needed, or in 2013. #126  DT Akiem Hicks - We have not seen the Pats use a high pick on the DL since Wilfork in 2004 (I'm not counting Brace because he was drafted specifically as an insurance policy to Wilfork holding out).  Since then they have been drafting DL late or getting them in F/A (Deaderick, Love, Pryor)  Hicks was originally recruited by LSU but ended up playing in Canada.  He has tremendous size and raw power.  Since the top DL prospects are long gone the Pats take this kid to groom and coach up. We've addressed our needs in the secondary, big time! We added a couple of play makers in James who will see action on special teams and perhaps 3rd downs and Broyles who takes over for Welker and possibly Edelman in 2013.  Then we added a massive 6-5, 318 34 DE type who can start learning right away and be ready to really contribute next year.  ...and by the way, we have a pair of 1sts and 2nds again next year, as always:)).
    Posted by Faucetman


    if he does make it to 2nd i see him mocked to pick 35, though st louis and indy both had him in.

    im not high on smith. if he turns out good, thats great. i think hes a risk to be a top player in the nfl.
    if i want jenkins id take him at 31.
    if i could get him later i would, but i dont see it.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    On Jenkins...no way I touch him in the draft unless he does a vontaze burfict and slides all the way to round 7 or udfa.sure he is one heck of a corner but the kid has many a problem that I don't think BB and the pats will be able to manage. Why waste a high pick on him? It's not only talent and scheme fit we should be evaluating but also chemistry and decision making and the kid strikes out on both big time.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Faucet Don't know if Ryan Broyles will last to pick 93 and be on PUP after his workout at Sooners today. Courtesy of ESPN. Has had an excellent recovery from ACLU apparently........... What round now?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Faucet PS .....Pats were listed as having a scout there.............
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    On Jenkins...no way I touch him in the draft unless he does a vontaze burfict and slides all the way to round 7 or udfa.sure he is one heck of a corner but the kid has many a problem that I don't think BB and the pats will be able to manage. Why waste a high pick on him? It's not only talent and scheme fit we should be evaluating but also chemistry and decision making and the kid strikes out on both big time.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    we shall see
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : we shall see
    Posted by bredbru

    The latest report from mutliple teams is that Jenkins admitted to continuing to smoke pot at N Ala, contray to what was previous reported. It seems he continued his ways that got him kicked out of Florida. You can point to a number of things BB hates but not learning from your mistakes and continuing to repeat them is a pretty big one. If Jenkins showed that much lack of control after being tossed out of Florida in commiting the same mistakes I don't think BB will take the risk

    "Sources from multiple NFL teams tell NFL Network's Albert Breer that Janoris Jenkins will fall out of the first round due to events following the former Florida star's exit from Gainesville.
    Jenkins has admitted to teams that he continued to smoke pot at North Alabama last season. One AFC personnel director believes Jenkins' biggest problem is that he "doesn't see the error of his ways." Added an AFC scout, "He's not a bad person. He just makes a lot of dumb, dumb mistakes. He just smokes, and (has sex) ... And there's just awful decision-making associated with that." From a pure football perspective, personnel executives rank Jenkins behind only LSU's Morris Claiborne at cornerback"

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : The latest report from mutliple teams is that Jenkins admitted to continuing to smoke pot at N Ala, contray to what was previous reported. It seems he continued his ways that got him kicked out of Florida. You can point to a number of things BB hates but not learning from your mistakes and continuing to repeat them is a pretty big one. If Jenkins showed that much lack of control after being tossed out of Florida in commiting the same mistakes I don't think BB will take the risk " Sources from multiple NFL teams tell NFL Network's Albert Breer that Janoris Jenkins will fall out of the first round due to events following the former Florida star's exit from Gainesville. Jenkins has admitted to teams that he continued to smoke pot at North Alabama last season. One AFC personnel director believes Jenkins' biggest problem is that he "doesn't see the error of his ways." Added an AFC scout, "He's not a bad person. He just makes a lot of dumb, dumb mistakes. He just smokes, and (has sex) ... And there's just awful decision-making associated with that." From a pure football perspective, personnel executives rank Jenkins behind only LSU's Morris Claiborne at cornerback"
    Posted by PatsEng


    Wow, the more that comes out about this kid (close to the draft or not) the more I'm thinking about removing this kid from my board completely.  Thanks, PE.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I think the resigning of Connolly/Koppen all by ends any chance of BB targeting Konz, will prob remove him from my board now.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    If Belichick were to take a flyer on a WR in the 3rd, why not Broyles at this point?  Besides B. Lloyd and Welker, he's got as much a chance at making this team as Gonzo, Stallworth and Edelman.  Even if he's PUP'd, he's a much better WR to carry forward than Tate or C. Jackson ever were. 

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    If Belichick were to take a flyer on a WR in the 3rd, why not Broyles at this point?  Besides B. Lloyd and Welker, he's got as much a chance at making this team as Gonzo, Stallworth and Edelman.  Even if he's PUP'd, he's a much better WR to carry forward than Tate or C. Jackson ever were. 
    Posted by ShiningWizard


    I'm sure he'll be in the discussion.
     
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