***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]1 st round (27) Whitney Mercilus*, DE/OLB, Illinois Height: 6-4. Weight: 261. 40 Time: 4.63. 10-Yd Split: 1.56. Bench: 27. Vertical: 32. Broad: 9-10. Arm: 33 7/8. Projected Round (2012): 1. 1 st round (31) Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford Height: 6-6. Weight: 247. Projected 40 Time: 4.71. Bench: 27. Arm: 27. Hand: 10. Projected Round (2012): 1-2. 2 nd round (48 from Oakland) Kendall Reyes, DE/DT, Connecticut Height: 6-4. Weight: 299. 40 Time: 4.79. Bench: 36. Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 9-5. Arm: 33 1/4. Hand: 9 1/2. Projected Round (2012): 1-2. 2 nd round (62) Trade for 3 rd , 4 th , 5 th , 6 th , round pick 276 points= 3 rd ~150, 4 th ~80, 5 th ~35, 6 th ~21   for a total of ~286 3 rd from trade George Iloka, S, Boise State Height: 6-4. Weight: 225. 40 Time: 4.59. Bench: 20. Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 10-4. Arm: 34 1/2. Hand: 9 5/8. Projected Round (2012): 3-4. 3 rd pick 93 Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati Height: 5-10. Weight: 197. 40 Time: 4.41. 10-Yd Split: 1.50 Vertical: 33. Broad: 9-8. Arm: 31. Hand: 8 5/8. Projected Round (2012): 3-4. 4 th round pick (126) Jake Bequette, DE/OLB, Arkansas Height: 6-5. Weight: 275. 40 Time: 4.78. 10-Yd Split: 1.72. Vertical: 34. Broad: 9-5. Arm: 32. Hand: 9 1/4. Projected Round (2012): 4. 4 th round (from trade) Kashif Moore, WR, U Conneticut Height: 5-9. Weight: 194. 40 Time: 4.41. Vertical: 43.5. Projected Round (2012): 4-5. 5 th round from trade Coryell Judie, CB, Texas A&M Height: 6-0. Weight: 194. 40 Time: 4.44. 10-Yd Split: 1.51. Vertical: 37. Broad: 10-6. Arm: 30 1/4. Projected Round (2012): 4-5. 6 th round (from trade) Ryan Miller, G, Colorado Height: 6-7. Weight: 321. 40 Time: 5.27. Bench: 32. Arm: 33 1/8. Projected Round (2012): 6 7 th round (trade for with philly) Louis Nzegwu, DE/OLB, Wisconsin Height: 6-4. Weight: 253. 40 Time: 4.54. Bench: 22. Arm: 33 3/4. 41.5” vertical jump! Projected Round (2012): 7-FA
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]
    I have a secret crush on Mercilus too.  I know he's a one year wonder but I think he's the real deal.  He didn't just lead the nation in sacks, 16.5.  The next closest was 12.5.  He was also 2nd in the country in TFL at 22.5, 18 of them solo.  This tells me he is effective stopping the run and is very disruptive to be in the back field so often.  Let's not look past his 9 forced fumbles, also tops in the nation.  BB places a huge emphasis in creating turn overs and to have 9 of them in a season isn't a fluke.  He has a nose for the ball and a talent for separating players from the ball. 

    If I knew Harrison Smith will last to 31 and Mercilus is there at 27, I'd take him.  There are plenty of DT options all the way through the 3rd round.  I know there are a lot of DE/OLB types too but none with the production Mercilus had.  But I think some team will take him well before 27.  Finding pass rushers is hard to do and his production, one year or not, won't be discounted as much as people think. 

    As for the rest of your post, there is no way we take a TE now with Daniel Fells on board and I don't see any team giving up 4 picks, albeit late rounders, to get one pick.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    For whatever it's worth,mi am going on record to say I like Harrison smith, but believe a better option is to grab a kid like trumaine Johnson and convert him into a fs, or stick moore there and Johnson on the outside. I like smith, I just don't think this kid is a first rounder and he is being elevated so because there is lack of quality and depth in this years safety class. I have seen numerous posts by some here giving smith a first round grade...I don't know if it is warranted or based on our need for a safety, others thinking the same, and smith getting dropped into round 1? Basically, I am on the fence with smith with 4 days to go. Someone help me here. Does he deserve a first round grade, and would a kid like Johnson provide a better option at fs based on value and skill set? I know smith has some coverage skills but from everything I read, they are not elite. If we want a SS to play in the box more and back up Chung, what about the kid from lsu in round 3 or 4? I guess my point is I am not sold on smith as a complete package. I like him overall, but want someone back there with Chung who is more cover and less run. Is he that guy? Faucet...on merciless, I like him, but I think his 1 year production might discount his value on BB' s board. He has a tendency to draft more proven, 3 or 4 year talent and not sue merciless qualifies. For me, it's a real crapshoot on the olb position. Same with de. Beyond the elite kids going 1 st half of round 1, I see good players with lots if questions. Example, I love Wolfe like many do, but does he have the size to play on the end? Perry, good to above pass rusher but gets knocked on run support. Los of questions after the elite which is probably same in every year, however, I am more convinced now to possibly package to grab 1 elite, and then sit still for some solid kids like Wolfe, curry, etc. So, if you do it, is it brockers or Barron?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]For whatever it's worth,mi am going on record to say I like Harrison smith, but believe a better option is to grab a kid like trumaine Johnson and convert him into a fs, or stick moore there and Johnson on the outside. I like smith, I just don't think this kid is a first rounder and he is being elevated so because there is lack of quality and depth in this years safety class. I have seen numerous posts by some here giving smith a first round grade...I don't know if it is warranted or based on our need for a safety, others thinking the same, and smith getting dropped into round 1? Basically, I am on the fence with smith with 4 days to go. Someone help me here. Does he deserve a first round grade, and would a kid like Johnson provide a better option at fs based on value and skill set? I know smith has some coverage skills but from everything I read, they are not elite. If we want a SS to play in the box more and back up Chung, what about the kid from lsu in round 3 or 4? I guess my point is I am not sold on smith as a complete package. I like him overall, but want someone back there with Chung who is more cover and less run. Is he that guy? Faucet...on merciless, I like him, but I think his 1 year production might discount his value on BB' s board. He has a tendency to draft more proven, 3 or 4 year talent and not sue merciless qualifies. For me, it's a real crapshoot on the olb position. Same with de. Beyond the elite kids going 1 st half of round 1, I see good players with lots if questions. Example, I love Wolfe like many do, but does he have the size to play on the end? Perry, good to above pass rusher but gets knocked on run support. Los of questions after the elite which is probably same in every year, however, I am more convinced now to possibly package to grab 1 elite, and then sit still for some solid kids like Wolfe, curry, etc. So, if you do it, is it brockers or Barron?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you on Smith. I like the kid but he's being elevated to a late 1st rounder when I think he's more like a Chung which would be a mid-late 2nd round talent. A kid who will be a solid starter and make few mistakes but I just don't see a pro-bowler in Smith and that's what I'm looking for in the 1st, a potential pro-bowler. I wouldn't reach for him either. I'd rather try to convert a CB to FS and get an extra 1st round pick for next year, where it's a much deeper and talented draft in terms of S.

    With Wolfe, the guy is up to 295lbs and might still be able to add another 5-10lbs, so I think he is 34 DE size right now with someone like Nin behind him, who can set the edge.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    On ESPN Blogger Mock Draft Pats trade 27 and 31 to Seattle for # 12 and 106. Pick Barron with #12. This after Dallas refused 27 and 48.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]On ESPN Blogger Mock Draft Pats trade 27 and 31 to Seattle for # 12 and 106. Pick Barron with #12. This after Dallas refused 27 and 48.
    Posted by teegee[/QUOTE]

    If that happened I wouldn't be to happy. Either #31 or #27 will most likely turn into a 3rd and a 1st next year anyways so the question becomes would you rather have Barron or a late 1st and a 1st next year. If that late 1st was turned into Upshaw, Curry, Brockers, Perry, Branch, Reyes I'd think I'd rather have the the later then just Barron truthfully

    Not to mention that I love Barron but I've had him graded as a late 1st pick (talent wise) since Jan and my opinion hasn't changed. Just because he's the best S in the draft doesn't change my opinion that compared to other years he's a late 1st pick. Moving up to a top 15 pick to grab him just seems like a reach for the kid. I'd rather trade one of the picks straight up to a team like Stl, Colts, Was, Clev, TB which should give us a top 15 next year with better talent at the S position. We can survive with McCourty at FS for a year to have a shot at a better FS in next years class imo
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : If that happened I wouldn't be to happy. Either #31 or #27 will most likely turn into a 3rd and a 1st next year anyways so the question becomes would you rather have Barron or a late 1st and a 1st next year. If that late 1st was turned into Upshaw, Curry, Brockers, Perry, Branch, Reyes I'd think I'd rather have the the later then just Barron truthfully Not to mention that I love Barron but I've had him graded as a late 1st pick (talent wise) since Jan and my opinion hasn't changed. Just because he's the best S in the draft doesn't change my opinion that compared to other years he's a late 1st pick. Moving up to a top 15 pick to grab him just seems like a reach for the kid. I'd rather trade one of the picks straight up to a team like Stl, Colts, Was, Clev, TB which should give us a top 15 next year with better talent at the S position. We can survive with McCourty at FS for a year to have a shot at a better FS in next years class imo
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    i too would not be happy if they use both first rnd picks to trade up. after seeing bb's mo a decade i am convinced that you should come to every draft with two first rounders. that's what gives him the flexibility to maneuver around get the players he wants, despite finishing each year near the top of the league.



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I love to read the last week of this site as you guys really focus in.  Most of you are letting go of your favorites and focusing on the practical and what BB really needs and usually does.  Every year I feel like I really am informed when the draft arrives--and of course then BB does something none of us expect.  Thanks all!

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Just don't see BB valuing a Safety that highly. If he moved up that high I would think it would be for Cox. I could more easily see him moving up to around 20 for Gilmore/Kirkpatrick and converting someone from CB to safety, or for Brockers.
    I think both Barron and Smith are being way overvalued because everyone is saying there will be no safety available in the second round. It wasn't long ago that Barron was seen as a late first/early second rounder, and Smith was a late second/early third rounder.
    The whole reason BB signed Gregory was so he wouldn't have to find a starting safety in a weak draft class. He started last year for SD and no one was complaining about SD's 31st ramked defense against the pass. He doesn't have the upside we may want, but he has a lot more experience and doesn't have the downside of an untested player either.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : It's just really what my eye is telling me. When I watched him he occupied space well but never really took on a ton of dbl teams. For the most part when he was dbl'd he was washed out of the play moving laterally along the line. He didn't have the penetrating power that we see in most NT's and stayed relatively close to the line. To me that usually translates to being pushed backwards in the pro's. Considering the D he was on I would have expected to see him more aggressive in pushing the pocket and even willingness to shoot the gap when allowed. Instead usually what I saw was OL holding their own against him and holding him close to the line. Typically they ran right at him because of the presence on the outside edge. Honestly I don't see him being any better then Love is with a Brace type of downside. 
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Kid does what he's supposed to do, he occupies blocks, eats up space... does it well.  He's strong at the point, plays with natural leverage, balance and a solid base, can and does push the pocket... I don't see a lot of him being washed out of the play as you're claiming... kid is solid vs. the double, does his job to free up others to make plays.  He's a 34/43 NT so prob not a kid that's asked to or will be asked to shoot a ton of gaps, but he can push the pocket.  Kid can stack and shed and is excellent vs. the run.

    Not to mention he could be one of the tougher kids in the entire class, having played a lot of the season with a torn ACL & meniscus (happened game 5 vs. Florida). 

    The game he missed was vs. Georgia Southern, who ran up 302 rushing with him out of the lineup (which more than doubled the next highest total against them all season), LSU was only able to rack up 187 total rushing yards in (2) games against 'Bama, both of which Chapman played in.

    Excellent fit for what NE likes to do, IMO.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    RE: Harrison Smith.

    I think he's a top 40-50 prospect in this class with Rd 1 upside, that's my grade on him.  He's a very good, "4 down" football player, with all the intangibles and few if any real weaknesses to his game... he's also flashed some ballhawk ability and will make a good FS at the NFL level.  I think he's a better coverage player than Chung.  I think anytime you have a S on a WR, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but Smith will be good vs. TE's and RB's etc.

    I'm still holding out hope that NE lands one of the 'Bama kids (Barron/Upshaw/Hightower/Kirkpatrick) or Michael Brockers (potentially moving into the low 20's for any of the five) , if they don't, I do expect them to trade back and target a kid like Harrison Smith somewhere between 33 & 48 etc.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Kid does what he's supposed to do, he occupies blocks, eats up space... does it well.  He's strong at the point, plays with natural leverage, balance and a solid base, can and does push the pocket... I don't see a lot of him being washed out of the play as you're claiming... kid is solid vs. the double, does his job to free up others to make plays.  He's a 34/43 NT so prob not a kid that's asked to or will be asked to shoot a ton of gaps, but he can push the pocket.  Kid can stack and shed and is excellent vs. the run. Not to mention he could be one of the tougher kids in the entire class, having played a lot of the season with a torn ACL & meniscus (happened game 5 vs. Florida).  The game he missed was vs. Georgia Southern, who ran up 302 rushing with him out of the lineup (which more than doubled the next highest total against them all season), LSU was only able to rack up 187 total rushing yards in (2) games against 'Bama, both of which Chapman played in. Excellent fit for what NE likes to do, IMO.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    MB, you are building the kid up to levels he can't compare. If he was exactly as you said then why is he considered a round 3-4 kid? The way you make it sound he is a better prospect then Poe or Ta'amu. I like the kid but I honestly don't see more out of him then I do from Love which is a kid who will be a solid backup but not a 3 down NT. Honestly I see more from Jean-Baptiste, as far as upside, then Chapman. I love Chapman's motor, his drive, and he just doesn't give up on plays but I think I'd rather take a chance on a WR, CB, or dbl up on a DE/DT or OLB/DE with a 3rd round pick.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]RE: Harrison Smith. I think he's a top 40-50 prospect in this class with Rd 1 upside, that's my grade on him.  He's a very good, "4 down" football player, with all the intangibles and few if any real weaknesses to his game... he's also flashed some ballhawk ability and will make a good FS at the NFL level.  I think he's a better coverage player than Chung.  I think anytime you have a S on a WR, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but Smith will be good vs. TE's and RB's etc. I'm still holding out hope that NE lands one of the 'Bama kids (Barron/Upshaw/Hightower/Kirkpatrick) or Michael Brockers (potentially moving into the low 20's for any of the five) , if they don't, I do expect them to trade back and target a kid like Harrison Smith somewhere between 33 & 48 etc.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I will say if they can trade back to a 40-50 pick and get Smith then that's about where I think his value is so I wouldn't mind the pick up. At that point I'd trust that BB views him similar to how you view him but #27 or #31 is a bit high for me regarding Smith.

    With news about McClellins previous concussions I have moved him out and moved Upshaw into my top 3 LB's to take in the 1st and top 5 players to take in the 1st as a whole. Though I'd like a LB with more ability to drop back into coverage taking Upshaw at #27 or #31 would make me pretty excited as well. Right now Brockers is my #1, then Branch, Perry, and Upshaw all kind share #2 and Curry brings up #5 with Reyes as #6 (only because I think Wolfe is just as good of an option in the back of the 2nd)

    I would also say Barron but imo he goes in the top 15 and I think his talent is really in the 20-30 range. Considering it would take both 1st to move up to a top 15 pick I don't think Barron's value is worth that much. I would rather trade one of those picks back to the 40-50 range and try to get Smith or the better option imo would be to trade one of the firsts for a 1st from a fringe playoff team next year targeting a more talented S draft next year and draft Josh Robinson or Hosley this year and move McCourty to FS at least for next year

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Barron doesn't get past BUF at 11 and MIA could take him at 8.  If you are these teams, you try to figure out how to stop the Pats and Gronk.  Gronk absolutely lit up BUF last year.  In his two games he was 15/217/2.  Against the Dolphins he was a more modest 13/164/1.  I'm not sold on MIA taking Tannehill.

    We already know DAL will take Barron if he's there at 14.  So, let's forget about him.  No way we are moving up that high plus I just heard SD wants him bad, probably to deal with Manning coming to the division.  We know SD will fly up boards when it falls in love with a player. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I'm with you on Smith. I like the kid but he's being elevated to a late 1st rounder when I think he's more like a Chung which would be a mid-late 2nd round talent. A kid who will be a solid starter and make few mistakes but I just don't see a pro-bowler in Smith and that's what I'm looking for in the 1st, a potential pro-bowler. I wouldn't reach for him either. I'd rather try to convert a CB to FS and get an extra 1st round pick for next year, where it's a much deeper and talented draft in terms of S. With Wolfe, the guy is up to 295lbs and might still be able to add another 5-10lbs, so I think he is 34 DE size right now with someone like Nin behind him, who can set the edge.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Smith reminds me of Rodney Harrison.  He just makes plays, he tackles, he hits and he leads.  Read the below then disagree, oh and Rodney was a 5th round pick...

    College career

    Harrison played college football at Western Illinois University from 1991 to 1993. He is the school's record-holder for tackles in a career (345) and tackles in a game (28). As a freshman, Harrison was a second-team All-Gateway Football Conference before being named a first-team All-Gateway pick as a sophomore and junior. The Associated Press also named him a second-team All-American as a sophomore and a first-team All-American as a junior.

    Professional career

    San Diego Chargers

    Harrison was drafted in the fifth round of the 1994 draft, (145th overall) by the San Diego Chargers, the same year they made their only Super Bowl (Super Bowl XXIX) to date, which they lost to the San Francisco 49ers. Harrison became a starting member of the Chargers' 1996 defense, going to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers in 1998 and 2001. He set then-career highs with the Chargers in 2000 with 127 tackles and six interceptions; in 2002 he started 13 games and recorded 88 tackles in his final season with the Chargers.

    New England Patriots

    2003

    Following the 2002 season, on February 27, 2003, Harrison was released by the Chargers. Two weeks later, on March 13, Harrison landed with the Patriots, signing a six-year deal. At the time, the Patriots had both Harrison and fellow Pro Bowl safety Lawyer Milloy under contract. However, throughout the offseason the Patriots and Milloy were involved in contract negotiations, with the Patriots requesting Milloy take a pay cut or be released. Milloy did not comply, and on September 2, he was released.Prior to the 2003 season, Harrison was named a defensive captain in his first year with the Patriots by his teammates.On January 10, 2004 in the divisional playoff game against the Tennessee Titans, he intercepted Steve McNair, which set up Antowain Smith's touchdown, as New England would hold on for a 17–14 win. In the AFC Championship Game the next week against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning in the end zone and forced a Marvin Harrison fumble recovered by teammate Tyrone Poole. Harrison then went on to help New England Patriots win their second title in three years, against the Carolina Panthers in Super Bowl XXXVIII, 32–29. He fractured his right arm late in the game, but a Tom Brady-led drive and Adam Vinatieri field goal secured the Patriots' victory. In his tenth year in the league, Harrison earned his first Super Bowl ring.Harrison was also named to the Associated Press' All-Pro team following a 140-tackle (a 2003 NFL best for a defensive back) and three-sack season in which he started all 16 regular season games.

    2004

    The 2004 season produced a similar performance from the ex-Charger. Harrison helped New England's defense finish second in the NFL in scoring for 2004. For the second straight season, Harrison's 138 tackles led all defensive backs in the NFL. Harrison also started all sixteen regular season games for the sixth time in his career, holding together a Patriots secondary that was without Ty Law and Tyrone Poole for the majority of the season.In the Patriots' divisional playoff game against the Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning late in the game to end the Colts' last chance. The next week in the AFC Championship, Harrison jumped a Ben Roethlisberger pass and took it 87 yards for a touchdown, helping the Patriots defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers, 41–27. During the week leading up to the Super Bowl, Harrison got into a verbal feud with Philadelphia Eagles receiver Freddie Mitchell after Mitchell claimed he "had something for Harrison" and did not know the names of the New England secondary.[3] Harrison, in Super Bowl XXXIX, would record seven tackles, a sack, and two interceptions of quarterback Donovan McNabb, despite missing almost an entire quarter due to an injury sustained during the game. The second interception, with ten seconds remaining in the game, preserved a 24–21 Patriot win, ensuring a third championship in four years.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : MB, you are building the kid up to levels he can't compare. If he was exactly as you said then why is he considered a round 3-4 kid? The way you make it sound he is a better prospect then Poe or Ta'amu. I like the kid but I honestly don't see more out of him then I do from Love which is a kid who will be a solid backup but not a 3 down NT. Honestly I see more from Jean-Baptiste, as far as upside, then Chapman. I love Chapman's motor, his drive, and he just doesn't give up on plays but I think I'd rather take a chance on a WR, CB, or dbl up on a DE/DT or OLB/DE with a 3rd round pick.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Not sure what you're talking about PE, kids a Rd 3-4 kid on my board. All I've said to this point is that he's a solid run defender that does well what he's asked to do and projects well to NE's scheme, in response to your post about him under performing.  I haven't referred to him as an elite talent or as a consistent 3 down player or as having big upside or as a kid that should up good sack #'s or as a kid with elite measurables or athleticism, etc.

    Kid's prob closer to a solid Top 100 player if he didn't blow out his ACL/meniscus which eventually resulted in surgery, causing him to miss the Senior Bowl/Combine.  Pure 34 NT's have plenty of value at the NFL level.

    You're putting words in my mouth on the Poe/Ta'amu comment, so not sure what to tell you there.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Smith reminds me of Rodney Harrison.  He just makes plays, he tackles, he hits and he leads.  Read the below then disagree, oh and Rodney was a 5th round pick... Rodney Harrison played college football at Western Illinois University from 1991 to 1993. He is the school's record-holder for tackles in a career (345) and tackles in a game (28). As a freshman, Harrison was a second-team All- Gateway Football Conference before being named a first-team All-Gateway pick as a sophomore and junior. The Associated Press also named him a second-team All-American as a sophomore and a first-team All-American as a junior. Professional career San Diego Chargers Harrison was drafted in the fifth round of the 1994 draft , (145th overall) by the San Diego Chargers , the same year they made their only Super Bowl ( Super Bowl XXIX ) to date, which they lost to the San Francisco 49ers . Harrison became a starting member of the Chargers' 1996 defense, going to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers in 1998 and 2001 . He set then-career highs with the Chargers in 2000 with 127 tackles and six interceptions; in 2002 he started 13 games and recorded 88 tackles in his final season with the Chargers.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet - I love Smith's intelligence and his ability to tackle and hit hard but there are very few I would compare to Harrison. However, it does point out what I thought of Smith, a better S closer to the line and in the box then asking him to cover intermediate to deep parts of the field in the typical FS role BB used Slater, Moore, and McCourty in last year.

    With Harrison being drafted in the 5th, every so often a pro-bowler is taken later then the 3rd round. Usually 1 player every 1-2 years. There have been a number of S's since Harrison has left the game that people have tried to compare to him and disappeared. Not saying Smith will disappear but I think it's more likely Smith is going to be a solid better then average S over his career (trust me that by itself is more then worth a 2nd round pick) with maybe a couple of pro-bowls but he has a way to go before reaching the level Harrison reached

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Not sure what you're talking about PE, kids a Rd 3-4 kid on my board. All I've said to this point is that he's a solid run defender that does well what he's asked to do and projects well to NE's scheme, in response to your post about him under performing.  I haven't referred to him as an elite talent or as a consistent 3 down player or as having big upside or as a kid that should up good sack #'s or as a kid with elite measurables or athleticism, etc. Kid's prob closer to a solid Top 100 player if he didn't blow out his ACL/meniscus which eventually resulted in surgery, causing him to miss the Senior Bowl/Combine.  Pure 34 NT's have plenty of value at the NFL level. You're putting words in my mouth on the Poe/Ta'amu comment, so not sure what to tell you there.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Well this is closer to how I view him and what I stated but look at what you wrote for a moment. It's typically what you hear coming out of a description of a 1st round pick scouting report or a 3 down player scouting report. Top 100 sounds about right, though until they know how is knee is going to react after surgery I might drop him to a top 125 player. Thankfully his a smaller NT which should help him in his recovery. Typically the larger the body the harder it is for knees to recover

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I will say if they can trade back to a 40-50 pick and get Smith then that's about where I think his value is so I wouldn't mind the pick up. At that point I'd trust that BB views him similar to how you view him but #27 or #31 is a bit high for me regarding Smith. With news about McClellins previous concussions I have moved him out and moved Upshaw into my top 3 LB's to take in the 1st and top 5 players to take in the 1st as a whole. Though I'd like a LB with more ability to drop back into coverage taking Upshaw at #27 or #31 would make me pretty excited as well. Right now Brockers is my #1, then Branch, Perry, and Upshaw all kind share #2 and Curry brings up #5 with Reyes as #6 (only because I think Wolfe is just as good of an option in the back of the 2nd) I would also say Barron but imo he goes in the top 15 and I think his talent is really in the 20-30 range. Considering it would take both 1st to move up to a top 15 pick I don't think Barron's value is worth that much. I would rather trade one of those picks back to the 40-50 range and try to get Smith or the better option imo would be to trade one of the firsts for a 1st from a fringe playoff team next year targeting a more talented S draft next year and draft Josh Robinson or Hosley this year and move McCourty to FS at least for next year
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue.

    I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis, McClellin then Irvin. Without concussion issues, I'd prob reverse Lewis and McClellin.

    As far as DE/OLB conversions, it's prob Perry, Curry, Jones then Branch for me, in that order.

    I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Faucet - I love Smith's intelligence and his ability to tackle and hit hard but there are very few I would compare to Harrison. However, it does point out what I thought of Smith, a better S closer to the line and in the box then asking him to cover intermediate to deep parts of the field in the typical FS role BB used Slater, Moore, and McCourty in last year. With Harrison being drafted in the 5th, every so often a pro-bowler is taken later then the 3rd round. Usually 1 player every 1-2 years. There have been a number of S's since Harrison has left the game that people have tried to compare to him and disappeared. Not saying Smith will disappear but I think it's more likely Smith is going to be a solid better then average S over his career (trust me that by itself is more then worth a 2nd round pick) with maybe a couple of pro-bowls but he has a way to go before reaching the level Harrison reached
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I think Smith will be a better cover S than Barron.  That's a bold statement but when I watched him at the Combine coming out of his back pedal opening his hips and turning, he was smoother than a lot of the corners I saw.  I'm not saying he'll make a great FS and I agree he's probably a better SS but we need help back there bad and Smith to me is better than any of the other options we have and more ready to step and contribute. 

    I think Smith has the intangibles that will allow him to succeed.  The man skipped Spring Break to stay home and study film for God's sake.  Who does that in college?  Harrison Smith has the work ethic and heart of a young Tom Brady.  I firmly believe in him and will not be surprised to see him do better than Barron over the course of his career.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue. I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis.  I see don't see BB touching a DE/OLB conversion in Rd 1, but if Perry, Curry or Branch were sliding a bit in Rd 2, I'd interested, in that order. Of that that overall grouping, I'd have them Upshaw, Hightower, Perry, Lewis, Curry then Branch. I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Haha.  Dude, Kraft needs to let us shop for some groceries, LOL.

    Upshaw is dropping like a rock and I think he could fall right into our laps.  Teams are worried about his short arms and lack of size and where he'll play.  Heck, he's a football player.  He could be the next Marvin Harrison.  Will be interesting to see if PIT takes him and passes on Hightower since he totally fits their style.  

    How would we all feel about Hightower/Smith for our first two picks? 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer[/QUOTE]

    Haven't seen it yet but knew it was released.  He was talking up Chandler Jones big time on Path to the Draft tonight.  I can see MIA taking Barron and doubt he gets past BUF.  Teams in the AFC East have one thing on their mind, how to beat TB and the Pats.  Slowing down Gronk/Hern and the boys are job #1.  That's why BUF signed Mario Williams.  I'm telling ya, we are in the Jets, Dolphins and Bill's minds so bad messin' with their heads that their entire draft and thought process is based on how to beat us. 

    I think MIA takes Floyd or Barron and would be shocked if they don't take one of them.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Haha.  Dude, Kraft needs to let us shop for some groceries, LOL. Upshaw is dropping like a rock and I think he could fall right into our laps.  Teams are worried about his short arms and lack of size and where he'll play.  Heck, he's a football player.  He could be the next Marvin Harrison.  Will be interesting to see if PIT takes him and passes on Hightower since he totally fits their style.   How would we all feel about Hightower/Smith for our first two picks? 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Looks like you were able to comment on my post as I was editing it ha, slight revisions above.

    I've seen a lot of Upshaw tape and I'm of the thought that the "falling" rumors are being started by a team that would love him to fall to them (i.e. NE)... this kid is, as you put it a (heckuva) football player.  He's up to 3rd on my board (I took Cox off, don't see anychance of him being around or within range.

    I'd be stoked to land Hightower and Smith in Rd 1 assuming thats how the draft unfolds.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue. I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis.  I see don't see BB touching a DE/OLB conversion in Rd 1, but if Perry, Curry or Branch were sliding a bit in Rd 2, I'd interested, in that order. Of that that overall grouping, I'd have them Upshaw, Hightower, Perry, Lewis, Curry then Branch. I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I have no doubt about Upshaws pass rushing ability. Lining him up as a 43 DE or a 34 rushing OLB I think he'll excel. I just wonder with Nin on one side and Upshaw on the other and Spikes in the middle is Mayo going to cover the entire box by himself? LB's in coverage was a large issue last year so unless they dbl up on OLB's and get a coverage OLB in the 3rd or 4th (Kendricks, Bradham, Wagner, Acho) I'm not sure if Upshaw can fill that role.

    Hightower to me is very similar to Mayo. Someone who's more then solid up the middle, can cover provide it's not longer for then 4-5s, and can get to the QB at a variaty of position. I'm just not sure if he can be an every down OLB in a 34 and I don't think he can be a 43 DE. To me he's more of a 34 ILB/43 OLB where he can use his high intelligence to break plays down, read, and react(something I think is one of his strengths). If we didn't have Spikes or Mayo, Hightower would be my hands down pick but since we do have Spikes and Mayo I'd rather have a Perry, Curry, Branch, Upshaw type who are more natural OLB/DE edge rushing types

    Lewis is interesting to me. He has interesting size where he wouldn't be out of place as a OLB in either a 34 or 43 system. He can drop back and might be the best coverage LB you mentioned but he's also the smallest. He might be more of a OLB/ILB like Hightower

    If I had to group them I would say the best pure edge rushers would be Upshaw and Curry. Good edge rushers with ability to cover would be Perry and Branch (based on film and fluidity of drills I've seen), and the pure LB's would be Hightower and Lewis.

    So I guess it's what you are looking for. If you don't think BB wants a convert LB then Hightower or Lewis would be the choice. If you are looking for the best pass rusher possible then Upshaw or Curry becomes the choice. If you want good pass rushing ability with average to better then average coverage ability then you are looking at Perry or Branch 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Chandler Jones @9the best player in the draft is shocking to me. I didn't think Jones would go in the 1st round.

    Back to youtube.


    [QUOTE]Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer[/QUOTE]
     

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