***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think they'd leave Mayo inside, kick Hightower out.  Mayo, IMO, is too small to play on the outside and would have problems setting the edge.  Hightower on the other hand is a lot bigger, has much better length, is much stronger at the POA and already has experince rushing off the edge.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    This is exactly correct. IF the idea and what I assume is implied by others posts is a move to use more 3-4 as they did in the first two playoff games than I too would never see them moving Mayo outside. Hightower has the measures they always look for at OLB.

    In the Huddle reports opinion its even Hightowers natural or better position for him.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    RE: FA Below are players that interest me (Including a lot of their own): WR: Wes Welker- Likely to be franchised Vincent Jackson- Makes a ton of sense Brandon Lloyd- Has the obvious link and a skill set that matches their O Mario Manningham- Has the ideal skill set for NE’s O Deion Branch- Depth player Eddie Royal- Another good skill set fit. Matt Slater- ST stud RB: Benny- Solid, yet unspectacular Peyton Hillis- Only if he comes at a great value, they're not spending big on a RB Jason Snelling- Good veteran depth LeRod Stephens Howling- He's a RFA, but has a lot of KR ability. OL: Dan Koppen- I think he's brought back Dan Connolly- Versatile player LB: Jarrett Johnson- If they're looking to go more 34, he’s a solid, well rounded vet   Tracy White- ST stud Jonathan Goff- Good size, has local ties as well CB: Brandon Carr- Good size, a lot of experience in a RAC coached defense Richard Marshall Cortland Finnegan S: Michael Griffin Michael Huff Tom Zbikowski Rashad Johnson- RFA Haruki Nakamura- Good ST player DL: Calais Campbell- Likely to be franchised Kendall Langford- If they're looking to go more 34 Andre Carter- Can get after the QB, if they're looking to go more 43 Mark Anderson- See Carter, Andre Kyle Love- Solid rotational player Adam Carriker- Has experience in both schemes, though looks like a better fit in a 43
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Why no Colston?

    He's a year younger than Vincent Jackson.

    Even with one yr less service he's only played in 6 fewer games cause Jackson has been injured more.

    Colston has 177 MORE receptions than Jackson, 1486 MORE yards than Jackson, 11 More TD's than Jackson, and 90 MORE 1st downs than Jackson. All with one year less playing time.

    Plus 3 of Colstons longest receptions in a season are longer than Jacksons longest ever.

    Jackson has never caught more than 68 balls in a season and only reached 60 one other time. Colston in Contrast has only had less than 70 receptions once. (topped 80 twice and 2 shy of 100 once)

    Jackson has only reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 3 of his 7 seasons. Colston has reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 5 or his 6 seasons.

    In Jacksons Favor he has a higher ypc avg, 1 inch taller, and 4 fewer fumbles.

    Combine 40's

    Colston 4.5
    Jackson 4.46

    Not that I would have a problem with either, myself, but I am curious why you don't like Colston?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines

    Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Why no Colston? He's a year younger than Vincent Jackson. Even with one yr less service he's only played in 6 fewer games cause Jackson has been injured more. Colston has 177 MORE receptions than Jackson, 1486 MORE yards than Jackson, 11 More TD's than Jackson, and 90 MORE 1st downs than Jackson. All with one year less playing time. Plus 3 of Colstons longest receptions in a season are longer than Jacksons longest ever. Jackson has never caught more than 68 balls in a season and only reached 60 one other time. Colston in Contrast has only had less than 70 receptions once. (topped 80 twice and 2 shy of 100 once) Jackson has only reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 3 of his 7 seasons. Colston has reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 5 or his 6 seasons. In Jacksons Favor he has a higher ypc avg, 1 inch taller, and 4 fewer fumbles. Combine 40's Colston 4.5 Jackson 4.46 Not that I would have a problem with either, myself, but I am curious why you don't like Colston?
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I'd have no problem with Colston, same with Dwayne Bowe.  As for the other higher rated WR's, I'd want no part of Steve Johnson... kid is a mental disaster.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : This is exactly correct. IF the idea and what I assume is implied by others posts is a move to use more 3-4 as they did in the first two playoff games than I too would never see them moving Mayo outside. Hightower has the measures they always look for at OLB. In the Huddle reports opinion its even Hightowers natural or better position for him.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Agree. Hightower has the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or inside at LB as well. IF we did play more 3-4, adding Hightwoer to Nink/Spikes/Mayo makes a nice group. I still think we are light in depth on the outside and inside. Could you see more than 1 LB drafted? OR a FA LB or two brought in?

    As much as I like the idea of us playing more 3-4, I think the fron 7 really needs an injection of talent. Assuming Warren & Ellis are gone or at best depth, who starts along the line? Deaderick, VW? What about the other end? Is Deaderick starting material?

    Going back to my post earlier, this is why I think it important to do 1/2 of 3 possible things. We really need to improve the front 3 and front 7 to become formidable.
    1. Trade up for Brockers or Still (one DE position filled)
    2. Sign Carriker or Campbell at the other DE position
    3. OR Wait until later in the draft and go get Cox, Randall or someone like that.

    Ideally, I think we need 2 quality DEs + 1 starting OLB, and 1 quality OLB/ILB for depth. That's a hefty order unless you feel Deaderick is the guy.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.
    Posted by sportslover21

    Reiss hits on some of this too in his piece this morning...

    Quick-hit thoughts around the NFL and with the Patriots:

    1. When it comes to the Patriots' plans this offseason, the initial thought from here is that there will be a two-pronged approach at receiver and safety – one veteran in free agency, one prospect in the draft. Those are two areas I anticipate the club pursuing aggressively. Looks like a lot of potential options in free agency.

    2. I don’t buy into the line of thinking that the Patriots need to alter their approach and “go for it” because Tom Brady will be 35 in August and the window of opportunity is closing. They were a bouncing football away from winning the Super Bowl this year (two forced fumbles both recovered by the Giants), and with a good draft and some help in free agency, they should be right back in the hunt again. It takes some good fortune, too.

    3. Before the final preseason game of 2011, with the Giants visiting the Patriots, I remember how the Giants were taking heat in New York for not doing enough in the offseason to improve their team. The Jets had generated much more buzz. But general manager Jerry Reese didn’t flinch, which is a good reminder that those who stick with their plan and scout and draft well will usually outlast those looking for splashy headlines.

    4. First-year Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano is having a tough time in his search for a defensive coordinator, and while it might not be popular among Patriots followers based on the history with the organization, here is a suggestion: Eric Mangini. I think Mangini knows personnel, is a good Xs and Os coach, and his prior experience as an NFL head coach would seemingly be a benefit to an NFL first-timer like Schiano.

    5. With Texans outside linebacker/defensive end Mario Williams set to become a free agent, it reminds me of Julius Peppers two years ago. The Patriots inquired about Peppers at that time. Makes sense to think they’d at least dip their toe into the Williams waters.

    6. Impressive that even though the Texans might lose Williams, they’re still viewed as one of the favorites in the AFC next season thanks to some solid drafting (particularly on defense) and with Wade Phillips returning for his second season as defensive coordinator. For those hoping the Patriots can adopt a new identity on defense, the Texans are a good example of how quickly it can be done.

    7. The Steelers looked old to me in their wild-card round playoff loss to the Broncos. I also thought the Ravens were trending older. It’s tough to remain competitive while staying young, as the Patriots can attest. Patriots team president Jonathan Kraft alluded to that during his Friday ESPNBoston Radio interview, noting that only seven players remained from the Super Bowl XLII roster and that it could be viewed as a good sign that the team was back in the Super Bowl four years later after such roster turnover.

    8. Defensive end Mark Anderson was one of the Patriots’ best free-agent signings this year. In Chicago, where things fizzled out for Anderson in 2010, they’re still trying to fill his role.

    9. Easy to say when it's not your money, but I think the Jets are going to regret not cutting ties with receiver Santonio Holmes. They would have had to eat a $7.75 million guarantee by cutting him. Instead, they are now guaranteeing him $15.25 million over the next two seasons.

    10. Felt like there was too much instability in the Patriots secondary in 2011 for the unit to be successful, and in retrospect, the team’s handling of the safety spot seems fair to scrutinize. In terms of decisions I’d imagine Bill Belichick would like to have back, I’d put releasing James Sanders alongside the acquisitions of Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ochocinco at the top of the list. Amazing to think that after all the headlines Haynesworth and Ochocinco generated in late July/early August, they were essentially non-factors.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.
    Posted by sportslover21


    I would love to see Manningham on the roster next season; he certainly provides that perimeter speed/big play ability that they currently don't have.  Interestingly enough though, BB was 2nd (to only Aaron Rodgers) in the NFL last season in YPA, so they're moving the ball down the field.

    If they want to change the dynamic of their DL, I think they have (3) options.

    *1.  Do what you have to do to land Michael Brockers.
    2.  Break the bank for Calais Campbell.
    3.  Break the bank for Mario Williams.

    In a fantasy world, completing 1 AND 3 would completely transform their front 7.

    * The addition of the rookie pay scale may allow BB to get more aggressive as the cost risk has been greatly reduced.  Devon Still is also in the discussion, though questions around his desire/motivation could scare them off.  I also like Fletcher Cox and while he appears to be more athletic and have a better motor than Still, adding another 5-10 pounds wouldn't hurt.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Agree. Hightower has the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or inside at LB as well. IF we did play more 3-4, adding Hightwoer to Nink/Spikes/Mayo makes a nice group. I still think we are light in depth on the outside and inside. Could you see more than 1 LB drafted? OR a FA LB or two brought in? As much as I like the idea of us playing more 3-4, I think the fron 7 really needs an injection of talent. Assuming Warren & Ellis are gone or at best depth, who starts along the line? Deaderick, VW? What about the other end? Is Deaderick starting material? Going back to my post earlier, this is why I think it important to do 1/2 of 3 possible things. We really need to improve the front 3 and front 7 to become formidable. 1. Trade up for Brockers or Still (one DE position filled) 2. Sign Carriker or Campbell at the other DE position 3. OR Wait until later in the draft and go get Cox, Randall or someone like that. Ideally, I think we need 2 quality DEs + 1 starting OLB, and 1 quality OLB/ILB for depth. That's a hefty order unless you feel Deaderick is the guy.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    I'm sure BB had a chance to pick Saban's mind re Hightower and Barron.  If Hightower is more natural outside it's a perfect match and I really hope he is one of our picks.

    As for 34 DE, I am convinced we are switching back.  We only switched to the 43 because we got Haynesworth and Ty Warren wasn't going to make it back plus we were thin at OLB with the injury and subsequent release of Banta-Cain.  Remember also that we had almost no off season.  The roster basically came together in 8 days in late July/early Aug.  BB is a 34 coach, we are switching back.

    As for Deaderick, absolutely he can play 34 DE.  He was a guy I scouted and discussed a lot prior to the draft as a potential late round gem.  He is now just starting to "get it."  Deaderick's measureables at the Combine are not that much different that Ndamukong Suh.

    Suh 6-4, 307, 5.03.

    Deaderick, 6-4, 314, 5.08.

    Terrance Cody received much of the credit for Alabama's dominant defensive line play, but Deaderick's performance (36 tackles, 5.5 tackles for loss, four sacks) was a major factor in Alabama's re-emergence as a national title contender in 2008. As such, he was expected to be a major contributor in 2009.

    Before the start of the season, Deaderick was shot by a would-be car thief on August 31, 2009. The injury and improved play of backup Marcell Dareus limited Deaderick early in the season, contributing to less than scintillating statistics throughout the Tide's ride to the BCS National Championship.

    Deaderick produced 23 tackles, 4.5 tackles for loss and one sack while playing in 14 games (including 10 starts) as a senior. His career totals of 83 tackles, 13 tackles for loss and seven sacks over 31 starts is less than some defensive linemen posted last season alone.

    Despite only marginal production, scouts are intrigued by Deaderick's size and versatility. The classic two-gap defender projects as a fit as a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 defensive end. If he can convince teams his off-field concerns are past him, his experience and ability to play multiple positions could result in a mid-round selection.


    As we know we got him in the 7th round.  I expect to see big things from Deaderick next year.  As for who will play the other 34 DE.  That is the big question.  I prefer going after a proven veteran.  But I don't see ARI letting Campbell go and I also don't think the Skins will let Carriker go without a fight.  This could leave Mario Williams and perhaps Mike DeVito as options.  I worry that the price for Mario could be too high but I do think we talk to him.  I don't see us making a bold move up in the draft to get Still or Brockers.  BB hasn't made a first round bold move up in many years.  The biggest move up he ever made was 10 years ago to get Daniel Graham.  He gave up 32, 96 and 234 to move up to 21.  This actually worked out pretty good on the points chart.  If we could do that again with 31, 95 and our 4th to get into the teens that would be sweet but I suspect both Brockers and Still will be long gone by 15. 

    Cox should be available in the back of the first round if BB wants a young project.  Regardless, who ever we get in the draft would take some time to develop so we might see a little VW out there if Brace can play nose.

    The interesting thing about Mike Reiss' piece is the idea that BB will cover his bases by likely drafting and brining in a F/A S and WR.  When Gronk went down, it really hurt us not being able to stretch the field allowing the Giants to focus on stopping our underneath stuff.  We need a well rounded offense and actually have someone besides Slater, who can actually catch the ball, go long.  Much as we saw BB double down on WRs after the Caldwell 2006 debacle, I think we will see him convincingly address the WR position again this year and for sure address the S position because the Brown/Bartlett experiment was over by Week 2.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Reiss hits on some of this too in his piece this morning... By Mike Reiss Quick-hit thoughts around the NFL and with the Patriots: 1. When it comes to the Patriots' plans this offseason, the initial thought from here is that there will be a two-pronged approach at receiver and safety – one veteran in free agency, one prospect in the draft. Those are two areas I anticipate the club pursuing aggressively. Looks like a lot of potential options in free agency. 2. I don’t buy into the line of thinking that the Patriots need to alter their approach and “go for it” because Tom Brady will be 35 in August and the window of opportunity is closing. They were a bouncing football away from winning the Super Bowl this year (two forced fumbles both recovered by the Giants), and with a good draft and some help in free agency, they should be right back in the hunt again. It takes some good fortune, too. 3. Before the final preseason game of 2011, with the Giants visiting the Patriots, I remember how the Giants were taking heat in New York for not doing enough in the offseason to improve their team. The Jets had generated much more buzz. But general manager Jerry Reese didn’t flinch, which is a good reminder that those who stick with their plan and scout and draft well will usually outlast those looking for splashy headlines. 4. First-year Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano is having a tough time in his search for a defensive coordinator, and while it might not be popular among Patriots followers based on the history with the organization, here is a suggestion: Eric Mangini . I think Mangini knows personnel, is a good Xs and Os coach, and his prior experience as an NFL head coach would seemingly be a benefit to an NFL first-timer like Schiano. 5. With Texans outside linebacker/defensive end Mario Williams set to become a free agent, it reminds me of Julius Peppers two years ago. The Patriots inquired about Peppers at that time. Makes sense to think they’d at least dip their toe into the Williams waters. 6. Impressive that even though the Texans might lose Williams, they’re still viewed as one of the favorites in the AFC next season thanks to some solid drafting (particularly on defense) and with Wade Phillips returning for his second season as defensive coordinator. For those hoping the Patriots can adopt a new identity on defense, the Texans are a good example of how quickly it can be done. 7. The Steelers looked old to me in their wild-card round playoff loss to the Broncos. I also thought the Ravens were trending older. It’s tough to remain competitive while staying young, as the Patriots can attest. Patriots team president Jonathan Kraft alluded to that during his Friday ESPNBoston Radio interview, noting that only seven players remained from the Super Bowl XLII roster and that it could be viewed as a good sign that the team was back in the Super Bowl four years later after such roster turnover. 8. Defensive end Mark Anderson was one of the Patriots’ best free-agent signings this year. In Chicago, where things fizzled out for Anderson in 2010, they’re still trying to fill his role . 9. Easy to say when it's not your money, but I think the Jets are going to regret not cutting ties with receiver Santonio Holmes . They would have had to eat a $7.75 million guarantee by cutting him. Instead, they are now guaranteeing him $15.25 million over the next two seasons . 10. Felt like there was too much instability in the Patriots secondary in 2011 for the unit to be successful, and in retrospect, the team’s handling of the safety spot seems fair to scrutinize. In terms of decisions I’d imagine Bill Belichick would like to have back, I’d put releasing James Sanders alongside the acquisitions of Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ochocinco at the top of the list. Amazing to think that after all the headlines Haynesworth and Ochocinco generated in late July/early August, they were essentially non-factors.
    Posted by Faucetman


    He has to be reading this thread, ha.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I would love to see Manningham on the roster next season; he certainly provides that perimeter speed/big play ability that they currently don't have.  Interestingly enough though, BB was 2nd (to only Aaron Rodgers) in the NFL last season in YPA, so they're moving the ball down the field. If they want to change the dynamic of their DL, I think they have (3) options. * 1.  Do what you have to do to land Michael Brockers . 2.  Break the bank for Calais Campbell . 3.  Break the bank for Mario Williams . In a fantasy world, completing 1 AND 3 would completely transform their front 7. * The addition of the rookie pay scale may allow BB to get more aggressive as the cost risk has been greatly reduced.  Devon Still is also in the discussion, though questions around his desire/motivation could scare them off.  I also like Fletcher Cox and while he appears to be more athletic and have a better motor than Still, adding another 5-10 pounds wouldn't hurt.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    You summed it up pretty good.  As the draft approaches, we won't even be talking about Still and Brockers as they will likely be considered gone by 10 or 15.  Good 34 DEs seldom last long.  Cox has tremendous upside but is probably more of a project than Wilkerson was last year.  I don't see him contributing much year 1 especially since he is coming out early.  I think it more likely that if BB is going to draft a 34 DE that he does it later in the draft like he did when he got Deaderick.  That draft was so deep at DT and he just kept waiting and waiting.  There's Reyes, Forston, Harris, Randall, Hicks, Wolfe and others that meet the size criteria all of whom will need time to be coached and strengthened up.

    BB has not been known to go breaking the bank for Free Agents very often.  Adalius Thomas was the most notable exception and that didn't work out too good.  He places a value on a player and once the bidding goes above that, he picks up his chips and goes home.  But let's assume he pulls out all the stops to get one of the 3 prizes in red.

    To get Brockers would require both of his first round picks to get up to 11.  At least the money wouldn't be bad with the rookie cap.  But he could have done this last year to get JJ Watt and didn't.

    To get Campbell would likely mean giving up 2 first round picks (if he's tagged) too plus you would have the big contract to go with it.  Does anyone know if you have to give up 2 picks the same year when you have them or could it be our pick 31 this year and our 1st next year?  That would take the sting out of this a little and allow us to still do something, Hightower or Barron at 27.  With Campbell, you are getting an immediate impact player very much on the rise where you have the best chance of success.

    To get Williams it's just a money play with no picks involved.  Williams is going to cost some coin, probably half of our remaining cap (after Welker gets tagged).  Williams has had 4 seasons of declining stats, so there is some risk involved.  Williams however, gives you more flexibility.  You can line him up at 34 DE and drop him back into coverage from there or bring him lined up as a 34 OLB.  I think BB could put Williams in a lot of positions to make plays and confuse the offense.  Also since Williams would not cost any draft picks we still have our arsenal to get help in the draft.

    If I had to guess what we are going to do, based on recent history, I would say we won't sign any stud F/A or make any bold moves up.  I think we might go after Carriker if he walks which should be a cheaper option or DeVito if he becomes a cap cut or we simply bring back a Warren/Ellis and use a low round pick and get by another year.  If we do this, we can fix the secondary, LB corps and get younger and better at WR.  I don't think we can do all 4 things in a big way.

    It would be cool to see BB do something different and make a big play for Mario Williams.  He would then need to let walk some of his own F/A like BJGE, Hoyer, Carter, Slater, Branch, Koppen and Ellis.  The must resigns to me are; Welker, Connolly, Anderson and Love.  The rest can go. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : You summed it up pretty good.  As the draft approaches, we won't even be talking about Still and Brockers as they will likely be considered gone by 10 or 15.  Good 34 DEs seldom last long.  Cox has tremendous upside but is probably more of a project than Wilkerson was last year.  I don't see him contributing much year 1 especially since he is coming out early.  I think it more likely that if BB is going to draft a 34 DE that he does it later in the draft like he did when he got Deaderick.  That draft was so deep at DT and he just kept waiting and waiting.  There's Reyes, Forston, Harris, Randall, Hicks, Wolfe and others that meet the size criteria all of whom will need time to be coached and strengthened up. BB has not been known to go breaking the bank for Free Agents very often.  Adalius Thomas was the most notable exception and that didn't work out too good.  He places a value on a player and once the bidding goes above that, he picks up his chips and goes home.  But let's assume he pulls out all the stops to get one of the 3 prizes in red. To get Brockers would require both of his first round picks to get up to 11.  At least the money wouldn't be bad with the rookie cap.  But he could have done this last year to get JJ Watt and didn't. To get Campbell would likely mean giving up 2 first round picks too plus you would have the big contract to go with it.  Does anyone know if you have to give up 2 picks the same year when you have them or could it be our pick 31 this year and our 1st next year?  That would take the sting out of this a little and allow us to still do something, Hightower or Barron at 27.  With Campbell, you are getting an immediate impact player very much on the rise where you have the best chance of success. To get Williams it's just a money play with no picks involved.  Williams is going to cost some coin, probably half of our remaining cap (after Welker gets tagged).  Williams has had 4 seasons of declining stats, so there is some risk involved.  Williams however, gives you more flexibility.  You can line him up at 34 DE and drop him back into coverage from there or bring him lined up as a 34 OLB.  I think BB could put Williams in a lot of positions to make plays and confuse the offense.  Also since Williams would not cost any draft picks we still have our arsenal to get help in the draft. If I had to guess what we are going to do, based on recent history, I would say we won't sign any stud F/A or make any bold moves up.  I think we might go after Carriker if he walks which should be a cheaper option or DeVito if he becomes a cap cut or we simply bring back a Warren/Ellis and use a low round pick and get by another year.  If we do this, we can fix the secondary, LB corps and get younger and better at WR.  I don't think we can do all 4 things in a big way.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Overall I agree with you, BB generally doesn't break the bank for FA's, guess my post was in reponse to the article that talked about the difference between the Giants' front 4 vs. NE's.  In order to even approach their ability, they'd need to make big changes up front.

    Of the 3 moves that I had mentioned, I think doing what you have to to land Brockers seems the most likely as it would net them a potential impact talent, at at a historical position of value and while it would cost them (2) 1st rounders, the financial output/risk is minimal when compared to Campbell/Williams. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    At this point, Still & Brockers look like the 2 best prospects that project as 3-4 DEs.  Either one would more than likely require a trade-up, probably costing us a 2nd round pick.  What if this hole was filled via free agency?  One free agent that caught my eye is Red Bryant from Seattle.  He is 27, and coming off of a great 2011 season.  He is a great fit at 3-4 DE and just coming into his own in the NFL.  Just another guy to put on the radar.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    I think Bryant looks like a solid option and will be in the discussion, remember being fairly high on him as a day 2 kid when he came out of A&M a few years back.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Overall I agree with you, BB generally doesn't break the bank for FA's, guess my post was in reponse to the article that talked about the difference between the Giants' front 4 vs. NE's.  In order to even approach their ability, they'd need to make big changes up front. Of the 3 moves that I had mentioned, I think doing what you have to to land Brockers seems the most likely as it would net them a potential impact talent, at at a historical position of value and while it would cost them (2) 1st rounders, the financial output/risk is minimal when compared to Campbell/Williams. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I could get on board with this if we don't need to surrender both firsts this year.  If we could maybe do 27 and 63 this year and our 2nd next year while getting back a late round pick this year and perhaps a 3rd next year or perhaps our 31 this year and our first next year to get Brockers, that to me has more appeal.

    Regardless of what Reiss says, I do think the window is closing soon on the Brady Dynasty.  I think he has 1-3 years left before he can no longer carry the offense himself.  We have to get other pieces around him soon and the Defense needs to return to historical form.  BB has been getting away with smoke, mirrors and great coaching since really 2007.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think Bryant looks like a solid option and will be in the discussion, remember being fairly high on him as a day 2 kid when he came out of A&M a few years back.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    The Seattle Seahawks' top priorities in free agency appear clear, at least when it comes to their own players.

    Re-sign running back Marshawn Lynch and defensive end Red Bryant.

    Lynch's agent of record, Mike Sullivan, recently took a job with the Denver Broncos. That would not affect negotiations as much if Lynch remained with Octagon Worldwide. The agent game can be an unpredictable one, however. That is something to file away.

    Bryant has said he strongly wants to re-sign with Seattle.

    Bryant returned from season-ending knee surgery in 2010 to play all 16 games for the first time in his four-year career this season, finishing with 32 tackles, two interceptions, including one returned for a 20-yard touchdown, and a sack.
    Bryant also blocked three field goals and an extra point, and proved a valuable part of a Seattle defense that finished No. 9 overall, holding teams to 332.2 yards a contest.
    The son-in-law of Jacob Green, Seattle’s all-time sack leader, Bryant said he’s partial to remaining with the team that gave him a chance to earn a starting job in the league.
    “I know what we have here,” Bryant said. “The people here are great, from the equipment managers to the trainers to the people that work in the cafeteria to the media. It’s a great culture around here that you really have an appreciation for the people here and what they do.
    “Just talking to other guys, it’s not always greener on the other side. The Seahawks organization is first-class in everything they do so I have a desire to be here.”

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/01/03/1967287/hawks-go-from-beast-mode-to-wait.html#storylink=cpy

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/new-cba-gives-teams-the-right-to-carry-over-cap-space-automatically/

    Just saw this article. I remember reading about this a while back. It's a part of the new CBA. And while everyone can do it, and most likely will. It at least would give us a little more flexibility in the cap then we may have thought if that Krafts decide to exercise this. Which I don't see why they wouldn't.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/new-cba-gives-teams-the-right-to-carry-over-cap-space-automatically/Just saw this article. I remember reading about this a while back. It's a part of the new CBA. And while everyone can do it, and most likely will. It at least would give us a little more flexibility in the cap then we may have thought if that Krafts decide to exercise this. Which I don't see why they wouldn't.
    Posted by sportslover21

    The Pats are a conservative team as we saw in uncapped 2010.  They aren't a team that will "borrow" from future caps.

    If they want to go after some big name F/As I think they will have to extend and not tag Welker.  The Pats are sitting just under $102MM with a cap of $121-125MM expected and as you note, they can borrow some.  Let's say to be conservative they have $21MM to play with.

    They can clear additional $6.7MM in cap by cutting the following, and I think the first 3 are no brainers.  This would save $5MM so now they have $26MM to play with just by cutting the first 3.
     
    $1.52MM Ochocinco
    $2.46MM Mike Wright
    $1.01MM Josh Barrett
    $785K  Ron Brace
    $750K  Donald Thomas
    $168K  Jermaine Cunningham

    They have to be smart about which of their own F/As they bring back or not bring back.

    Must haves:
    Mark Anderson ($1.375MM in 2011) +2MM
    Dan Connolly ($1.188MM in 2011) +3MM
    Kyle Love ($455K in 2011) +1.5MM
    Wes Welker ($4.480MM in 2011) +9.4MM

    There's $15.9MM of cap burned leaving about $10MM.  Welker needs to be extended, not tagged at a cap friendly, back loaded deal.  If we can do that, we could gain another $5MM of cap space.  Rule of thumb you need $5MM to sign draft picks, so we would still have $10MM, otherwise, just $5MM. 

    Like to have back (if the $ works):
    BenJarvis Green Ellis
    Deion Branch
    Matthew Slater
    Tracy White
    Gerard Warren

    Likely Gone:
    Dan Koppen
    Shaun Ellis
    Brian Hoyer
    Kevin Faulk
    Andre Carter
    Gary Guyton

    I don't want to hear any more talk about restricting Hoyer and paying him $1.8MM in hopes we can trade him.  The others should all walk or retire.  So at best we have $10MM to sign players from group 2 and/or add other free agents.

    I count 35 key players under contract counting the 4 must haves.  Then you have Cunningham, Brown, Brace and Barrett not counted.  If we keep them all, we're up to 39.  We have 6 draft picks taking us to 45.  We still need to add 8 guys to get to 53 and we have $10MM to do it.  We can basically get two high priced free agents with the rest being low budget players. 

    This is where it could get Dicey for Matt Light.  Light would save $5MM of cap if cut.  I think Brady is reading the tea leaves with all the comments he made recently about how there is no one he's rather have protecting his blind side.  But the reality of the situation is if Vollmer and Solder are ready to go and Cannon is considered an able back up, Light could get cut or at least restructured and extended although extending Light at his age is risky.

    Arrington would clear nearly $1MM if cap.  I say this only if we are going after a better F/A corner.  Moving Arrington would then not be out of the question.  The only other big cut savings I see is Brian Waters.  He would clear $2.25MM.  If we drafted Kevin Zeitler, for instance, we could plug and play him as Waters turns 35 and there is no telling if he can stay healthy for another long season.  These 3 additional moves, Light, Arrington, Waters collectively could clear another $8.5MM.  I'm not advocating this, I'm just pointing out the numbers.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Great breakdown of the cap situation, Faucet.  I think you're spot on with the "must haves" and the "likely gone" guys.  Our cap space should allow us to be reasonably aggressive in free agency, but I wouldn't hold my breath on any "break-the-bank" guys like Mario Williams.  Not really BB's style anyway. 
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Hey Faucet,

    http://nyjetscap.com/Patriots/patriots2012.php

    Not sure if we used this link yet, but it seems pretty good. The PatsCap website hasn't been updated. But I found this, which is updated as of this past week with future contracts, etc.

    We are at 94MM approx. which would leave us anywhere from 25MM-30MM under the cap depending where the number falls.

    Mike Wright -- 2.9MM Cap Hit (Save Approx. 2.5MM)
    Chad Ochocinco -- 4.6MM Cap Hit (Save Approx. 3MM)

    Those jump out as the 2 major cap casualties. That would save us approx. 5.5MM on the 2012 cap.

    So let's say we are now at 30MM-35MM under the cap before resigns.

    I am not sure if that number already would include taking the extra 8MM from last years cap toward this year. Let's assume it does, so we'd have 30MM-35MM to play with in resigns and Free Agency. Draft Picks will cost anywhere from 5MM to 7MM, so we are back down to 25MM-30MM range.

    I'd like to believe we ultimately resign Welker, and have his cap hit in the 7MM range. But for now we will stay with the 9MM Franchise Tag number.

    Resigns
    Wes Welker - 9.4MM Franchise Tag
    Mark Anderson - 3MM Cap Hit?
    Dan Connolly - 3MM Cap Hit?
    Kyle Love - 1.5MM Cap Hit?

    That would put us at anywhere from 9MM-14MM available for other resigns, and possibly 8MM more if that number off the top wasn't included.


    Ultimately, I think we will have room to bring in 1-2 Above Average Players, a few average players, and bring back our own guys.

    I think if done right this is more then enough. If we fill 1-2 needs in UFA, it gives us that much more flexibility in the Draft.


    Here is my realisitic FA picture at the moment:

    DE/LB Cliff Avril -- 5 Years/25MM -- Purdue pass rushing connection that BB loves, can play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. Would fill a need and fit nicely in both fronts.
    DE Kendall Langford -- 3 Years/9MM -- Good 3-4 DE fit, has played there with MIA. Has size/length/experience.
    WR Pierre Garcon -- 5 Years/20MM -- Reliable WR, with good hands, speed. Can create after the play. Would be able to acclimate with Tom quickly.
    TE Kellen Davis -- 1 Year/2MM -- Big (6'7" 270lbs), with athleticism. But also a good blocker. Would be a nice backup in case a TE goes down, and also allow us utilize BIG sets, and have 2 inline blockers at TE with Hernandez flexed out.

    Other Possible Additions: WR Reggie Wayne/Brandon Lloyd, CB Richard Marshall, OLB Jarrett Johnson/Ahmad Brooks, CB William Gay, S Michael Griffin/Laron Landry, S Tom Zbikowski, DE/LB Matt Roth, DE Adam Carriker

    Draft:

    1(27) -- DT Fletcher Cox, Mississipi State (6'4" 295) - Versitile DL, who can play 4-3 DT, as well as 3-4 DE. Powerful, yet sudden with good burst off the snap.
    1(31) -- LB Dont'a Hightower, Alabama (6'4" 260) - Versitile LB, who can play inside and out in 3-4/4-3. Has good instincts, high football IQ, and is athletic. Good scheme fit.
    2(48) -- CB Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina (6'1" 193) - Long CB, has the ability to press, but also play in zone concepts. Solid ballskills.
    2(63) -- WR Marvin Jones, California (6'2" 198) - Bigger possession WR who knows how to win in 1 on 1 situations. Has good body control, great hands and can separate. Also a very advanced route runner already.
    3(95) -- S Harrison Smith, Notre Dame (6'2" 212) - Versitile S who isn't great in any one area, but is solid in coverage and in-the box. Could also play a key role on ST.
    4(127) -- WR Ryan Broyles, Alabama (5'11" 190) - Another advanced WR early in career. If not for Torn ACL would have been late day 1/early day 2 pick. Now he slides and presents great value. Is in the Deion Branch mold. Would add more solid youth to position.


    Projected 53-Man Roster (Projecting Some Resigns)
    QB
    - Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett
    RB
    - Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, BenJarvus Green-Ellis (ultimately think he resigns)
    WR - Wes Welker, Pierre Garcon, Marvin Jones, Ryan Broyles (PUP?), Deion Branch (1 Year, Low Money), Matt Slater
    TE - Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Kellen Davis
    OT - Matt Light, Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon
    OG - Brian Waters, Logan Mankins, Donald Thomas, Nick McDonald
    OC - Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell

    DE - Brandon Deaderick, Fletcher Cox, Kendall Langford, Markell Carter
    DT - Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Ron Brace
    OLB - Cliff Avril, Dont'a Hightower, Rob Ninkovich, Mark Anderson
    ILB - Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Tracy White
    CB - Ras-I Dowling, Stephon Gilmore, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Antwaun Molden
    CB/S - Devin McCourty
    S - Patrick Chung, Harrison Smith, James Ighedibo, Malcolm Williams

    K - Stephen Gostowski
    P - Zoltan Mesko
    LS - Danny Aiken


    Defense

    CB Dowling - SS Chung - FS McCourty - CB Gilmore
    ROLB Avril - ILB Spikes - ILB Mayo - LOLB Hightower
    RE Cox - NT Wilfork - LE Deaderick
    Primary Backups: Arrington, Moore, Ninkovich, Anderson, Langford, Love

    Offense

    LT Light - LG Mankins - C Connolly - RG Waters - RT Solder
    TE1 Gronkowski - TE2 Hernandez
    WR1 Garcon - WR2 Welker - WR3 Jones
    RB Ridley
    Primary Backups: Vollmer, Broyles, Branch, Vereen, Woodhead, BJGE


    *Post got much lengthier then I had originally intended. But it was fun, offseason should be good. I think this is a realistic look at things.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Sportlover,

    Yes, I've been looking at the Jets site too since Miguel is late getting his site updated.  I don't think you are counting the $10MM in dead money.  There are conflicting reports.  Reiss, relying on a report for a Florida paper puts us at about $102MM, see below...

    We're currently in a mix of Super Bowl recovery/transitioning to the offseason reporting on the Patriots.

    When it comes to the second part of the equation, Omar Kelly of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel provides some helpful information as it relates to the salary cap. Kelly breaks down the cap status of every NFL team and puts the Patriots in the category of "possible big spenders."

    Kelly notes the Patriots have just shy of $102 million currently committed to their 2012 salary cap. The projected cap is between $121-125 million.

    Word from Detroit is re-signing Avril is a top priority but they will have to restructure Mega Tron first.  As for your other free agent ideas and draft picks, we definitely like a lot of the same players.

    I think Matt Light could have a bullseye on his back if the Pats really wanted to get aggressive with a particular free agent.  They could always release him, let him test the market with an offer to maybe match if it's less than the $5MM they could save.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    If the Pats can't get Barron, what do you guys think of FS George Iloka? He's 6'4 220 and has 40 consecutive starts at Boise State. As of now he's projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round. He may not be a ball hawk but could be ideal in zone coverage with a good burst of speed and good height
    Posted by Homecheese

    Iloka, along with Martin, have been discussed a few times on here if we miss out on Barron.  I wouldn't consider either before our pick 63 however.  I do agree with those who are advocating that we sign at least one free agent safety and a CB as I don't think we have much other than Chung unless McCourty is being moved to FS and I don't think we should assume that.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    A POSITION ON MCCOURTY

    Corner could be sharper

    The way Patriots defensive backs coach Josh Boyer was talking at the Super Bowl, it sure sounded as though Devin McCourty will go back to cornerback full-time once offseason practices start.

    Boyer said McCourty was switched to part-time safety because of issues other than his struggles at cornerback.

    “I think the reason we put him at safety is we felt that’s what would be what’s best for our group and with what we were doing schematically,’’ Boyer said.

    “Devin’s still out there as a corner. We can play him as a corner or a safety. We asked him to play man coverage, we asked him to play zone coverage, and it’s like anything else - there’s been some good and there’s been some bad.

    “There were some plays that he didn’t make for us, and there were some plays that he did make.

    “I would think if you look at the guys that made plays on the ball in man coverage, Devin’s probably made more plays than anybody we’ve had.

    “Now, he’s had more balls thrown at him than some of the others, and the times that he hasn’t made plays, he’s probably been pretty close. Maybe it’s just a technique thing or finish thing here on the ball, or maybe it’s a better press or jam at the line of scrimmage. Little things which he’s working hard to improve on, he really is.

    “I would say if anything, it’s been a plus for us this season to see that he has position flexibility, that he can play safety or a corner for us.’’

    Look for the Patriots to work hard on those minor technique issues, which were a problem throughout the season.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Great breakdown of the cap situation, Faucet.  I think you're spot on with the "must haves" and the "likely gone" guys.  Our cap space should allow us to be reasonably aggressive in free agency, but I wouldn't hold my breath on any "break-the-bank" guys like Mario Williams.  Not really BB's style anyway. 
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer

    Thanks.  I'm not sure Williams would break the bank.  I'm also not sure he's worth the same pay he got on his rookie deal.  He had a 6 year, $54MM deal.  But the way it was structured, his cap was manageable until 2011.  Surprisingly he didn't get a signing bonus.

    His cap charge was by year was:

    2006 - $1.625MM
    2007 - $2.325MM
    2008 - $3.700MM
    2009 - $4.225MM
    2010 - $4.375MM
    2011 - $15.150MM

    If we gave him the same deal, which we wouldn't because you want to have a SB in there to protect the player by way of guaranteed money and to spread the SB out.  But would anyone argue we couldn't handle the same deal for the first 5 years?  I do think there will be a lot of action for Williams and the Pats seldom get into bidding wars. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Sportlover, Yes, I've been looking at the Jets site too since Miguel is late getting his site updated.  I don't think you are counting the $10MM in dead money.  There are conflicting reports.  Reiss, relying on a report for a Florida paper puts us at about $102MM, see below... By Mike Reiss We're currently in a mix of Super Bowl recovery/transitioning to the offseason reporting on the Patriots. When it comes to the second part of the equation, Omar Kelly of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel provides some helpful information as it relates to the salary cap . Kelly breaks down the cap status of every NFL team and puts the Patriots in the category of "possible big spenders." Kelly notes the Patriots have just shy of $102 million currently committed to their 2012 salary cap. The projected cap is between $121-125 million. Word from Detroit is re-signing Avril is a top priority but they will have to restructure Mega Tron first.  As for your other free agent ideas and draft picks, we definitely like a lot of the same players. I think Matt Light could have a bullseye on his back if the Pats really wanted to get aggressive with a particular free agent.  They could always release him, let him test the market with an offer to maybe match if it's less than the $5MM they could save.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Yeah there are definitely conflicting reports regarding the cap space. I may be forgetting the 10MM in dead money, but the jetscap page seemed pretty solid in regards to everything. So we will have to see, we likely will never know the EXACT amount.

    In regards to Avril, I am sure they will make resigning him a top priority, but I don't see them tagging him, so he will likely test the market. I think he'd be a really good signing, as he is a good fit schematically and has the Purdue roots that BB loves, and won't cost what a Mario would cost but still fits nicely within the defense.

    AS for Light, I wouldn't be opposed to cutting him, and I think BB would consider it as well, but ultimately I think he is back. If Vollmer wasn't such an injury concern then maybe it'd be different, but unfortunately he is.

    One thing we could do with Light is restructure his deal, and rework it within the framework of the CBA and Cap, so that the actual Hit on the Cap will be less, and Light wouldn't lose too much $$. Maybe save 2-3MM on the Cap by restructuring the deal, and still have Light, plus some more flexibility. Thoughts?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Mb,

    Mayock has Harrison Smith as his second highest rated safety.  What's the deal on him?  He looks like he could play either Strong or Free Safety but I guess the knock on him is tight hips, plays stiff and can get lost in space and a little too aggressive at times.  I do like his size.  Figured you must of seen a lot of him but haven't read much about him on here, at least not recently.
     
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