***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Here you go found this article  http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html POSSIBLE BIG SPENDERS Teams that have the cap space to make big moves in free agency. Cincinnati Bengals            $80,641,237 Tennessee Titans             $92,739,765 Washington Redskins     $94,351,284 Kansas City Chiefs            $95,844,195 Tampa Bay Buccaneers  $98,899,458 Atlanta Falcons                 $100,227,174 Denver Broncos                $101,389,121 New England Patriots     $101,827,381 Chicago Bears                    $101,887,741 San Francisco 49ers         $102,938,980 Cleveland Browns            $103,789,162 WORKING ON A BUDGET Teams that aren’t up against the cap, but need to make smart moves to avoid trimming a ton of players and salaries. Jacksonville Jaguars        $107,270,274 Buffalo Bills                         $108,426,522 Seattle Seahawks              $111,742,430 San Diego Chargers         $111,960,165 New Orleans Saints         $113,358,069 Philadelphia Eagles          $113,964,694 Baltimore Ravens             $115,670,281 Minnesota Vikings           $116,078,422 Houston Texans                 $116,306,676 Miami Dolphins                 $116,636,173 Indianapolis Colts             $116,773,288 Green Bay Packers            $118,001,169 Arizona Cardinals             $118,787,639 TIGHTENING THE BELT Teams that will be at, or over the projected salary cap once they’ve signed the rookie class. These teams must purge their roster moving forward. The higher the cap number, the more drastic the cut backs need to be. St. Louis Rams                   $120,982,904 Detroit Lions                      $122,760,121 New York Giants              $124,735,807 New York Jets                   $128,092,733 Dallas Cowboys                 $128,910,735 Carolina Panthers            $129,962,768 Oakland Raiders               $140,861,316 Pittsburgh Steelers         $149,885,537 After taking a look at the early numbers my hope is you’ll understand why the Dolphins can’t do it big in free agency right now (quarterback upgrade is team owner  Steve Ross ‘ priority, then discount shopping from bargains) without restructuring plenty of contracts, or cutting a few high profile players. Also, keep in mind the free agent class will get enhanced over the next few weeks as teams try to get their books in order. Those players can sign with a new team immediately, but keep in mind they are usually damaged goods (injury history, declining play, problematic personalities, etc.). G.G.G.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    I already posted this story a couple of posts back but yours came out nicer:).

    Okay, here is what they are saying in Steeler land:

    Excercise and option in Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley's contract
    James Farrior and James Harrison to get cut.
    Brian McFadden and William Gay not to be brought back
    Release Jonathan Scott and Arnaz Battle
    Restructure Hines Ward
    Release Will Allen and Chris Kemoeatu
    Release kicker Shaun Suisham after June 1
    Retire Aaron Smith

    So there you go.  James Harrison most likely will be in play.  He's 33 but still had 9 sacks last year.  We shouldn't have to over pay him.  Gay would be cheap.  There is no mention of restricting Mike Wallace or what would happen if a team tried to sign him away, obviously more cuts would be needed.  If we were to go after Wallace, we really bend PIT over forcing them to make rapid decisions and cuts to match.  I think it is worth doing on a deal that makes sense to us that we can be happy with if we get him just to put PIT through this agony.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Had a chance to see some of Jones vids and a couple of things became pretty clear

    1) Makes a lot of real hard catches
    2) Not much YAC ability, tends to go down with initial contact
    3) Fights for balls in the air but won't fight for the extra yard
    4) Tends to be stood up or falls backwards when hit

    He's got great body control and amazing hands but doesn't get a lot of seperation and tends to fall where he catches

    It might just be the highlight reel I looked at but if his highlights are showing this then makes you would if he can generate additional seperation or gain additional yac in the pro's

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boy0tkwcv-A

    Just for comparison here's a highlight vid for Quick. Similar type of player who should be taken in similar range. Notice his hip movement and footwork after the catch

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh5X0_c1DZo&feature=related



    BTW does anyone else but me shut off the sound on these highlight vids so that it won't be biased by the music
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : This concerns me as well. I do have a question however. How do rookies / 2nd year players like Gronk and Hernandez get it, while other rooks/2nd-4th year players and FAs don't? Is it position related...TE vs. WR?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I am convinced that at least in small part it is about Brady and forcing his hand. When Brady came into the league he had no cache and when he played it took time to gain that AND also for him to gain that level of reading a defense pre snap as he has now.

    He...

    1) Wasn't as good at it himself as he is now. (which has pluses and minuses) SO he was more patient with receivers who also weren't since he didn't have as much to stand on.

    2) He is forced in certain circumstances to deal with it.

    Reche caldwell saw the field AND caught almost 70 balls. Ben Watson that year also caught his highest total as a Patriot proving he could do the job. However neither was long for the roster because Brady obviously didn't connect with them on the level he wanted.

    The year we get Gronk and Hernandez. Who is he throwing to at the TE spot if not one or both of those two? Did they just get it right away or did he not really have much of an option?

    This season they get Ocho but he has Wes, Branch, Gronk AND Hernandez now with a full year of experience "on the field". He doesn't have to make it work with Ocho cause he has other options.

    I also have absolutely no idea how or if the TE's read and react to what the Defense in doing in the same exact ways as the WR's. Maybe there is less of it?

    Branch grew up in the system with Brady together
    Moss got it and Brady loved that part most about him
    Welker got it and was always open and reliable so Brady loved that
    Gaffney got it over about a years time
    Stallworth never got it and Brady lost faith
    Bethal was a knucklehead, has been said was immature/work ethic issue
    Chack Jackson same as Bethal
    Brandon Tate had limited experience as WR and Brady has no patience now
    Taylor Price siimilar to Tate, type of offense questions
    Ocho no offseason & apparently can't get it or not yet anyways and no "on field" experience really to speak of cause he wasn't a necessity

    Bethal not a necessity his first year, other reliable and trusted options
    Chad Jackson WAS however a necessity and I believe its why he got as many chances as he did
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Here you go found this article  http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html POSSIBLE BIG SPENDERS Teams that have the cap space to make big moves in free agency. Cincinnati Bengals            $80,641,237 Tennessee Titans             $92,739,765 Washington Redskins     $94,351,284 Kansas City Chiefs            $95,844,195 Tampa Bay Buccaneers  $98,899,458 Atlanta Falcons                 $100,227,174 Denver Broncos                $101,389,121 New England Patriots     $101,827,381 Chicago Bears                    $101,887,741 San Francisco 49ers         $102,938,980 Cleveland Browns            $103,789,162 WORKING ON A BUDGET Teams that aren’t up against the cap, but need to make smart moves to avoid trimming a ton of players and salaries. Jacksonville Jaguars        $107,270,274 Buffalo Bills                         $108,426,522 Seattle Seahawks              $111,742,430 San Diego Chargers         $111,960,165 New Orleans Saints         $113,358,069 Philadelphia Eagles          $113,964,694 Baltimore Ravens             $115,670,281 Minnesota Vikings           $116,078,422 Houston Texans                 $116,306,676 Miami Dolphins                 $116,636,173 Indianapolis Colts             $116,773,288 Green Bay Packers            $118,001,169 Arizona Cardinals             $118,787,639 TIGHTENING THE BELT Teams that will be at, or over the projected salary cap once they’ve signed the rookie class. These teams must purge their roster moving forward. The higher the cap number, the more drastic the cut backs need to be. St. Louis Rams                   $120,982,904 Detroit Lions                      $122,760,121 New York Giants              $124,735,807 New York Jets                   $128,092,733 Dallas Cowboys                 $128,910,735 Carolina Panthers            $129,962,768 Oakland Raiders               $140,861,316 Pittsburgh Steelers         $149,885,537 After taking a look at the early numbers my hope is you’ll understand why the Dolphins can’t do it big in free agency right now (quarterback upgrade is team owner  Steve Ross ‘ priority, then discount shopping from bargains) without restructuring plenty of contracts, or cutting a few high profile players. Also, keep in mind the free agent class will get enhanced over the next few weeks as teams try to get their books in order. Those players can sign with a new team immediately, but keep in mind they are usually damaged goods (injury history, declining play, problematic personalities, etc.). G.G.G.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Great information. This also confirms that some teams were either misled by the uncapped year or simply did not position their teams correctly and are in cap hell. Also think that Seymour is due some huge money from the Raiders (8.5m -10m) and he could be a cap casualty. I would have to see a chart of every team's players to sort of predict who might get released and who gets signed.

    Really appreciate the information. Seems like the Pats have plenty of room even if Welker is franchised.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : To me it's more then position related. The main reason I want a large possession guy over a smaller quicker guy is because of the size mismatch. Face it when you are going against 5'10"-6'0" CB's and S's and you're 6'4"+ then you don't need separation you just need to box them out. Hern and Gronk are both very good at catching balls with players on tight coverage because they can box guys out with their size and out jump players. It's just another form of separation and you hear it from BB when he talks about Gronks catch radius. To me a larger possession WR will mesh with Brady better because they mismatch against smaller DB's and Brady essentially has a larger window to throw into tighter coverage because of that larger catching radius. Smaller guys like Welker have smaller catching radius's and thus need to develop a chemistry and essentially develop the same brain as Brady
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Absolute perfectly logical sound theory. However, imo, the reality simply doesn't play out that way the very large majority of the time unless you either draft a blue chipper OR are flat out lucky enough to land a incorrectly evaluated blue chipper.

    I would argue there are far more Ramses Bardens in Draft History than lucky finds.

    Ramses Barden 6-6 229 lbs 4.5 40 Pick 21 in 3rd by Giants 15 receptions in 3 years

    Malcolm Kelly 6-4 226 lbs 4.5 40 Pick 20 in 2nd round by SKins 28 receptions in 2 yrs out of league

    Mind you I started in 2009 looked at 2nd or 3rd rounders who were taller than 6-2 and ran in the 4.5 range or better

    A guy like Robert Meachum is close cause he fits the measureable but he was pick 27 in the 1st.

    Its more work then I am willing to do right now but simply checking 2009 and 2008 I quickly found 2 cases.

    1) I think the guys who fit the criteria are usually freaks and perform as such or just are avg at best, except the VERY few ones missed by scouts

    2) I don't think you can simply think an accurate QB is going to look at a receiver and know he is covered and just say it don't matter I will just throw it up high and let my guy out jump him. That's a low percentage throw in my opinion. It will work sometimes but not others. I want the guy who's open with no chance of interception. The tall receiver will typically have to make a more difficult catch, again making it a lower percentage catch(especially if he's elevating). If he has that body control in the first place I go back to him being a blue chipper to begin with) Lastly I would also argue you are opening up your receiver for a greater chance of injury by always making him go up over everyone to come down with the throw in traffic.

    Again don't misunderstand, the theory is absolutely sound. But the guys who are doing it like Calvin Johnson. Rob Gronkowski aren't your typical guys.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Yes, Mayo, Ninkovich, Wendell and the guys who were extended during the season are all counting in our cap number.  The new CBA also allows for a 3 player veteran exception if it saves their jobs vs getting cut.  So guys like Light and Welker might have their contracts exempted.  I have to go look at the specifics of this new rule. I love that most of our biggest rivals are in cap trouble like the Jets, Dolphins, Steelers and now the hated Giants.  I've been saying it, there will be some big names to get whacked from some of these teams that nobody is talking about now. POSSIBLE BIG SPENDERS Teams that have the cap space to make big moves in free agency. Cincinnati Bengals            $80,641,237 Tennessee Titans             $92,739,765 Washington Redskins     $94,351,284 Kansas City Chiefs            $95,844,195 Tampa Bay Buccaneers  $98,899,458 Atlanta Falcons                 $100,227,174 Denver Broncos                $101,389,121 New England Patriots     $101,827,381 Chicago Bears                    $101,887,741 San Francisco 49ers         $102,938,980 Cleveland Browns            $103,789,162 WORKING ON A BUDGET Teams that aren’t up against the cap, but need to make smart moves to avoid trimming a ton of players and salaries. Jacksonville Jaguars        $107,270,274 Buffalo Bills                         $108,426,522 Seattle Seahawks              $111,742,430 San Diego Chargers         $111,960,165 New Orleans Saints         $113,358,069 Philadelphia Eagles          $113,964,694 Baltimore Ravens             $115,670,281 Minnesota Vikings           $116,078,422 Houston Texans                 $116,306,676 Miami Dolphins                 $116,636,173 Indianapolis Colts             $116,773,288 Green Bay Packers            $118,001,169 Arizona Cardinals             $118,787,639 TIGHTENING THE BELT Teams that will be at, or over the projected salary cap once they’ve signed the rookie class. These teams must purge their roster moving forward. The higher the cap number, the more drastic the cut backs need to be. St. Louis Rams                   $120,982,904 Detroit Lions                      $122,760,121 New York Giants              $124,735,807 New York Jets                   $128,092,733 Dallas Cowboys                 $128,910,735 Carolina Panthers            $129,962,768 Oakland Raiders               $140,861,316 Pittsburgh Steelers         $149,885,537
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    Wow the Bengals with the most to spend, 9 draft picks this year and 2 of them 1st rounders both higher than the Patriots AND in the AFC with an already pretty good team.

    They are the Bengals so they could screw up but if they don't that team could be very good next season.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Absolute perfectly logical sound theory. However, imo, the reality simply doesn't play out that way the very large majority of the time unless you either draft a blue chipper OR are flat out lucky enough to land a incorrectly evaluated blue chipper. I would argue there are far more Ramses Bardens in Draft History than lucky finds. Ramses Barden 6-6 229 lbs 4.5 40 Pick 21 in 3rd by Giants 15 receptions in 3 years Malcolm Kelly 6-4 226 lbs 4.5 40 Pick 20 in 2nd round by SKins 28 receptions in 2 yrs out of league Mind you I started in 2009 looked at 2nd or 3rd rounders who were taller than 6-2 and ran in the 4.5 range or better A guy like Robert Meachum is close cause he fits the measureable but he was pick 27 in the 1st. Its more work then I am willing to do right now but simply checking 2009 and 2008 I quickly found 2 cases. 1) I think the guys who fit the criteria are usually freaks and perform as such or just are avg at best, except the VERY few ones missed by scouts 2) I don't think you can simply think an accurate QB is going to look at a receiver and know he is covered and just say it don't matter I will just throw it up high and let my guy out jump him. That's a low percentage throw in my opinion. It will work sometimes but not others. I want the guy who's open with no chance of interception. The tall receiver will typically have to make a more difficult catch, again making it a lower percentage catch(especially if he's elevating). If he has that body control in the first place I go back to him being a blue chipper to begin with) Lastly I would also argue you are opening up your receiver for a greater chance of injury by always making him go up over everyone to come down with the throw in traffic. Again don't misunderstand, the theory is absolutely sound. But the guys who are doing it like Calvin Johnson. Rob Gronkowski aren't your typical guys.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Low this is true but the roads are also littered with smaller fast players too. Look no further then Oak for that, or heck even the Pats (the B Johnson anyone?). Of course you have to hit and not every tall WR is going to be a fit. It would be foolish to say they will.

    What I meant was that larger possession WR's might have a higher rate of success with Brady because of their larger window he has to throw to. They play into Brady's strength. The Welker's and Branch's (in his day) are just as rare finds. But, if you give Brady a larger window to throw into because of a mismatch and (key word) the WR has the hands/body control to make catches in tight coverage then I think they will fit in better then a speedy WR who has a smaller window and needs time to develop chemistry with Brady. Lets face it Brady is not a fan of developing young receivers anymore unless forced due to lack of options at the position. A larger catching radius (with good hands) could accelerate the trust factor but a faster WR with a small catch radius (Tate, Price, Jackson, B Johnson) he might not every develop a trust early on
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Had a chance to see some of Jones vids and a couple of things became pretty clear 1) Makes a lot of real hard catches 2) Not much YAC ability, tends to go down with initial contact 3) Fights for balls in the air but won't fight for the extra yard 4) Tends to be stood up or falls backwards when hit He's got great body control and amazing hands but doesn't get a lot of seperation and tends to fall where he catches It might just be the highlight reel I looked at but if his highlights are showing this then makes you would if he can generate additional seperation or gain additional yac in the pro's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boy0tkwcv-A Just for comparison here's a highlight vid for Quick. Similar type of player who should be taken in similar range. Notice his hip movement and footwork after the catch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh5X0_c1DZo&feature=related BTW does anyone else but me shut off the sound on these highlight vids so that it won't be biased by the music
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    The comment on Jones' route running at the North/South game was that he ran crisp routes as good or better than anyone there.

    As for falling down on contact etc., I thought the comparison to Branch fit quite nicely since that has been my opinion of Branch.  That Marvin was lauded for his ability to get separation also reminded me of a YOUNG Branch.

    Considering TB's trust factor with wrs it would appear that Jones might meet with his approval, especially since he seems capable of getting separation and catches everything in sight...to include badly thrown passes.

    He may not have an "ultra" speed gear but he did impress as being field fast. I can't add anything about his YAC history because I have yet to read comments about that in his scouting reports. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I agree we could get Wallace and the other guys you mention, my argument was more based at what cost. In other words if we spent big on the WR core for Welker, Lloyd, and Wallace how much room does that actually leave us for D players?I've always been a D man so I'm a biased towards where I want the money to go honestly. I take a look at Ridley gaining BB's trust over the summer, Vereen getting a chance to work in, Hern, Gronk, Welker coming back, Lloyd being an upgrade over Branch, and Branch being an upgrade over Ocho. How much would a Wallace add to the overall O vs say a younger (Sanu, Floyd) with #31 and then take that $5mil you would have spent on Wallace and get a Griffin or Williams for the secondary? I just think that the bigger improvement and better use of cap space is not spent on Wallace. Besides if $5mil would be enough to get Wallace a number of teams would do it. Don't forget it's not just the Pats and Pit but every team could grab him and Wallace seems like a player to me that will go after the bigger contract
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    A couple of things in response.

    If we spent $5MM on Wallace, cut Ocho and Wright, it would be a net $2MM charge to the cap.  If we tag Welker, then extend, we could probably lower his cap hit from $9.4MM to $5-6MM.  By way of example, Mankins' new deal was a $5MM cap number, same with Mayo.  VW was at $4.6MM in 2011 cap.  So, let's say we get Welker right in that $5MM range.  We have now spend $7MM of our $25MM in cap space for Welker and Wallace.  We need to reserve $5MM for rookies.  Slater (1), Connolly (2), Anderson (2) and Love (1) might cost the cap $6MM.  We still have $7MM to go after Mario Williams.

    On the other hand, I would rather have Williams than just about any known free agent right now.  We could instantly go back to the 34 with a line of Deaderick, Wilfork and Williams.  We could pick up James Harrison and William Gay on the cheap before the draft and we would have addressed each level of the D before using a pick.  We could probably still get Lloyd or resign Branch

    If we scrap the Wallace idea, then I would go after Barron at 27 then Sanu at 31 as he seems like the safest of the WRs in range.  Might still be able to get Curry at 47 to develop or Kevin Zeitler to learn a year under Waters.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    How about looking at FAs with other a different idea, there are certain positions on the field BB doesn't give to rookies.  Because of scheme difficulty or they just don't trust them so I'm looking at the following positions:

    RB - They want a guy who can learn quickly their blocking schemes.  Rookies have the hardest time with this aspect of the game.  With Faulk and possibly Benny (saw and article where they are saying Cincy could sign BJGE, type of RB they are looking for and they probably don't bring back Benson)
    At RB - Jackie Battle - Big broucing RB, will stand next to Brady and protect

    OLB - NE demands a lot from their OLBs, seldom will you see a rookie there.  I'm sure they will look at some, Anderson and Carter will be an option but its time for a stud.
    At OLB - Ahmad Brooks, he doesn't have huge numbers until this season wasn't a starter until 2011 but he was very productive and has played in a 34. 
        OLB - Bobby Carpenter, this is more of a roll of dice.  He has played in a 43 and 34 systems.  Think he would be able to play OLB and come in for nickel coverage assignments.  He won't be expensive.

    WR - This is the hard one, NE has tried both rookies and vets and most have not worked so having a guy with NFL experience is similar offenses is where I give the advantage.
    At WR - Meachem over Lloyd because of age and speed.  Meachem plays in that spread type of which also uses a TE to as a 1st read.  He's a compliment guy not a #1.  If he can't be in NO he'll still want to be in a contender
        WR - Lloyd very familiar with the system almost a lock to come to NE, question is for how much?

    DE - Would love to add Williams here but he will be expensive, Williams might not be an option because it leaves less $$ for other FA of need.
    At DE Carriker, I really like Carriker and think he would make would dominate next to VW.  In a 43 he can push the pocket and get you a few sacks.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    The cap casualties begin for teams in bad cap shape.

    Raiders cut CB Stanford Routt who signed 5 Year 50+ Million dollar extension last year. He actually had a pretty good year as well for Oakland. He will definitely make some money on the open market. (6'1" 195lbs) ran a 4.26 40 at the Combine and is only 26 years old. Best quality is his press-man coverage.

    Not sure if the Pats will have interest, it's possible with there needs in the secondary, he would be a good add.

    He's free to sign immediately as a released player, no waivers.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    hey Pats7393 - A WR to add to that list is Laurent Robinson from Dal. Had a great year, decent size, good speed, only 1 year of production and bounced around from team to team so cost might be low, still young.

    Another is Danny Amendola from the Rams. Has put up similar numbers to Welker when he was with the Phins. Rams most likely will 2nd round tender him similar to Welker and McDaniels knows his capabilities. Was injured this year so production down and the Rams might not even try to match an offer. Could replace Edelman as Welkers immediate slot backup as a #3/4 WR leaving Edelman more flexibility to be a #5 CB and STer
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]hey Pats7393 - A WR to add to that list is Laurent Robinson from Dal. Had a great year, decent size, good speed, only 1 year of production and bounced around from team to team so cost might be low, still young. Another is Danny Amendola from the Rams. Has put up similar numbers to Welker when he was with the Phins. Rams most likely will 2nd round tender him similar to Welker and McDaniels knows his capabilities. Was injured this year so production down and the Rams might not even try to match an offer. Could replace Edelman as Welkers immediate slot backup as a #3/4 WR leaving Edelman more flexibility to be a #5 CB and STer
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PE good call on Robinson, I had missed he's available this season.  He might want to go to a place where he's the #1 guy and probably thinks he's getting that type of $$.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'll have to look Jones up. Don't know a lot about him honestly. But if he's ~6'2" and can run a sub 4.4 I would be very interested to see how he handles running routes, his yac ability, and his body control
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PE,
    Jones is a kid that I'm very high on after doing some research and watching some tape on him after the SB.  He looks like a 4.5 kid, but his strength is his route running and ability to separate which is what really interests me.  He's already advanced in the technique/football IQ part of the game, so I think he could see the field sooner than later.

    He also demonstrates excellent body control and ball skills IMO, he'll work the middle of the field, he can elevate to high point the ball and has very good hands with huge 10 inch mitts.  He's not a pure game breaker and doesn't have elite quicks/fluidity, but he's made some big plays and as been able to get behind the 3rd level on occasion.

    He's at or near the top of my list for WR's in the middle rounds.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Looks like Micheal Huff is going to be released by Oak

    Might be a very good option at FS 

    Also Dal doesn't look like they will resign Martellu Bennett's. He might be a good 3rd option TE for the 2 TE set
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Looks like Micheal Huff is going to be released by Oak Might be a very good option at FS  Also Dal doesn't look like they will resign Martellu Bennett's. He might be a good 3rd option TE for the 2 TE set
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Huff would def be worth a look... I'm also hoping to see Tom Zbikowski and Rashad Johnson (RFA) get a look.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Wow the Bengals with the most to spend, 9 draft picks this year and 2 of them 1st rounders both higher than the Patriots AND in the AFC with an already pretty good team. They are the Bengals so they could screw up but if they don't that team could be very good next season.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]
    Marvin Lewis is no Bill Belichick.  I can't believe he hasn't been fired yet.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]The cap casualties begin for teams in bad cap shape. Raiders cut CB Stanford Routt who signed 5 Year 50+ Million dollar extension last year. He actually had a pretty good year as well for Oakland. He will definitely make some money on the open market. (6'1" 195lbs) ran a 4.26 40 at the Combine and is only 26 years old. Best quality is his press-man coverage. Not sure if the Pats will have interest, it's possible with there needs in the secondary, he would be a good add. He's free to sign immediately as a released player, no waivers.
    Posted by sportslover21[/QUOTE]
    Wow, good call.  Someone to keep an eye on.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]How about looking at FAs with other a different idea, there are certain positions on the field BB doesn't give to rookies.  Because of scheme difficulty or they just don't trust them so I'm looking at the following positions: RB - They want a guy who can learn quickly their blocking schemes.  Rookies have the hardest time with this aspect of the game.  With Faulk and possibly Benny (saw and article where they are saying Cincy could sign BJGE, type of RB they are looking for and they probably don't bring back Benson) At RB - Jackie Battle - Big broucing RB, will stand next to Brady and protect OLB - NE demands a lot from their OLBs, seldom will you see a rookie there.  I'm sure they will look at some, Anderson and Carter will be an option but its time for a stud. At OLB - Ahmad Brooks, he doesn't have huge numbers until this season wasn't a starter until 2011 but he was very productive and has played in a 34.      OLB - Bobby Carpenter, this is more of a roll of dice.  He has played in a 43 and 34 systems.  Think he would be able to play OLB and come in for nickel coverage assignments.  He won't be expensive. WR - This is the hard one, NE has tried both rookies and vets and most have not worked so having a guy with NFL experience is similar offenses is where I give the advantage. At WR - Meachem over Lloyd because of age and speed.  Meachem plays in that spread type of which also uses a TE to as a 1st read.  He's a compliment guy not a #1.  If he can't be in NO he'll still want to be in a contender     WR - Lloyd very familiar with the system almost a lock to come to NE, question is for how much? DE - Would love to add Williams here but he will be expensive, Williams might not be an option because it leaves less $$ for other FA of need. At DE Carriker, I really like Carriker and think he would make would dominate next to VW.  In a 43 he can push the pocket and get you a few sacks.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    Hmm.  You make a lot of good observations.  I definitely agree BB prefers some proven experience for his 34 OLBs.  He hasn't drafted one high since that bum from Michigan in the 3rd round in what '08?  I agree he would probably look to add a veteran 34 OLB vs. drafting one high.  We should all pretty much write that down and forget the guys in the draft we've been talking about because every year the need has been there and he's passed on guys that fit the Bill; Matthews to name one.

    RBs - I'm not so sure its a system thing.  He drafted two last year.  I think it's more of a value thing.  He just doesn't place a lot of value on the position in terms of financial compensation.  Maybe it's because most backs don't last 5 years, IDK.  I believe he paid a 2nd round pick for Corey Dillon.  Dillon's first year with us (2004) he was a beast then the next 2 years he faded and was let go.  Dillon was a beast and belongs in the HOF.  Anyway, Ridley looks like the real deal (if he can hang onto the football).  He's a better receiver than Benny and I think Vereen could be awesome if he stays healthy.

    As for WRs, I totally buy into the veteran vs. rookie preference history of Mr. B.  He will add a veteran and probably not draft one at all, unless late.  So Pats, you threw a wrench in the works...  We won't draft a WR, OLB or RB high.  Now what?

    OL, DL, TE, MLB, CB?  He loves drafting those positions high.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Hmm.  You make a lot of good observations.  I definitely agree BB prefers some proven experience for his 34 OLBs.  He hasn't drafted one high since that bum from Michigan in the 3rd round in what '08?  I agree he would probably look to add a veteran 34 OLB vs. drafting one high.  We should all pretty much write that down and forget the guys in the draft we've been talking about because every year the need has been there and he's passed on guys that fit the Bill; Matthews to name one. RBs - I'm not so sure its a system thing.  He drafted two last year.  I think it's more of a value thing.  He just doesn't place a lot of value on the position in terms of financial compensation.  Maybe it's because most backs don't last 5 years, IDK.  I believe he paid a 2nd round pick for Corey Dillon.  Dillon's first year with us (2004) he was a beast then the next 2 years he faded and was let go.  Dillon was a beast and belongs in the HOF.  Anyway, Ridley looks like the real deal (if he can hang onto the football).  He's a better receiver than Benny and I think Vereen could be awesome if he stays healthy. As for WRs, I totally buy into the veteran vs. rookie preference history of Mr. B.  He will add a veteran and probably not draft one at all, unless late.  So Pats, you threw a wrench in the works...  We won't draft a WR, OLB or RB high.  Now what? OL, DL, TE, MLB, CB?  He loves drafting those positions high.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    LMAO!  Now, I have no idea except for maybe DE, OC/G and ok I'm going to get sent to the corner for this one:

    What could we get for Mayo?  Cause I trade Mayo and get me a MLB with some instincts ok that has been my only rant since SB, get one at least.   Been on record to saying Mayo is over rated, tackling machine but don't like him much in open space or reading plays after the snap

    On the RB, I think if they don't return Benny they still need a guy who won't miss blocking assignments. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : A couple of things in response. If we spent $5MM on Wallace, cut Ocho and Wright, it would be a net $2MM charge to the cap.  If we tag Welker, then extend, we could probably lower his cap hit from $9.4MM to $5-6MM.  By way of example, Mankins' new deal was a $5MM cap number, same with Mayo.  VW was at $4.6MM in 2011 cap.  So, let's say we get Welker right in that $5MM range.  We have now spend $7MM of our $25MM in cap space for Welker and Wallace.  We need to reserve $5MM for rookies.  Slater (1), Connolly (2), Anderson (2) and Love (1) might cost the cap $6MM.  We still have $7MM to go after Mario Williams. On the other hand, I would rather have Williams than just about any known free agent right now.  We could instantly go back to the 34 with a line of Deaderick, Wilfork and Williams.  We could pick up James Harrison and William Gay on the cheap before the draft and we would have addressed each level of the D before using a pick.  We could probably still get Lloyd or resign Branch If we scrap the Wallace idea, then I would go after Barron at 27 then Sanu at 31 as he seems like the safest of the WRs in range.  Might still be able to get Curry at 47 to develop or Kevin Zeitler to learn a year under Waters.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I like Williams as much as anybody else, but I'm not sure he's a 3-4 DE. Prior to Wade joining the Texas as D coordinator, Houston was playing in a 4-3, with Williams lined up at end. Since converting to a 3-4, he's lining up now at OLB. A 6'6", 283lb OLB is scary with William's athleticism. Question is, does he cost too much?

    I like Pats7393 idea around Carriker. I think he has the ideal size to slip right into our 3-4. 6'6", 315 or so. That is the size BB covets. Plus he shouldn't be a high priced FA. I see us an end or two away from a dominating 3-4 line...LOL..I like Deaderick, but want to upgrade.  

    Any ideas on what Carriker would cost? Also, what are everyone's opinion on him?

    I'm with PatsEng on fixing the D first. I think the O will be fine if we bring in Lloyd and resign Welker. Again, Welker, Gronk, Hern, Llyod. I don't see many targets by Brady after that list, so why spend high on WR in the draft? I'd rather grab a TE like I've been saying now for months, who can add value blocking first, and serve as a 5th option in addition to the above. That to me is more value based on how Brady targets his receiving options. If we drafted a Sanu, would the kid ever get the ball over the above 4? That is my concern.

    If we could make it work, I would really like Faucet's idea of Williams. Imagine this, and I don't think it is too far fetched at all..completely reasonable really. Feel free to call me crazy. 

    Fixing the 3-4
    LDE - Carriker
    NT - Wilfork
    RDE - Brockers/Still (package & trade up...get us up to 17)

    LOLB - Curry (Round 2)
    MLB - Spikes
    MLB - Mayo
    ROLB - Mario Willaims

    FS - Huff/Nelson
    SS - Chung
    RCB - Moore/Dowling
    LCB - McCourty

    So, we pay FAs Williams, Huff/Nelson and Carriker on Defense. We package and move up for one of Brockers/Still, and draft Curry in round 2 with the Raiders pick.

    On Offense...we sign Lloyd, resign Welker. Branch moves down on the list if he can be had cheaply. Draft a TE or WR in the 3rd. Again, I like TE over WR for the reasons I mentioned above, but IF we were drating a WR first, I would look to a kid that is explosive in the return game as a KR...like TY Hilton. It has more Value for us now until he develops and can crack the pecking order.

    My 2 cents borrowed from all the great ideas posted by Faucet, PatsEng, Pats7393, MB, etc....
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : LMAO!  Now, I have no idea except for maybe DE, OC/G and ok I'm going to get sent to the corner for this one: What could we get for Mayo?  Cause I trade Mayo and get me a MLB with some instincts ok that has been my only rant since SB, get one at least.   Been on record to saying Mayo is over rated, tackling machine but don't like him much in open space or reading plays after the snap On the RB, I think if they don't return Benny they still need a guy who won't miss blocking assignments. 
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Ha, That is blasphemy!...Trade Mayo? You must be crazy.

    Seriously, I'm with you on it. Mayo is a solid LB, but he's no game changer. I don't see us trading him. I think BB loves the kid. Plus the Patrick Willis of the world are rare.

    So, you trade Mayo for another MLB? Who?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Hmm.  You make a lot of good observations.  I definitely agree BB prefers some proven experience for his 34 OLBs.  He hasn't drafted one high since that bum from Michigan in the 3rd round in what '08?  I agree he would probably look to add a veteran 34 OLB vs. drafting one high.  We should all pretty much write that down and forget the guys in the draft we've been talking about because every year the need has been there and he's passed on guys that fit the Bill; Matthews to name one. RBs - I'm not so sure its a system thing.  He drafted two last year.  I think it's more of a value thing.  He just doesn't place a lot of value on the position in terms of financial compensation.  Maybe it's because most backs don't last 5 years, IDK.  I believe he paid a 2nd round pick for Corey Dillon.  Dillon's first year with us (2004) he was a beast then the next 2 years he faded and was let go.  Dillon was a beast and belongs in the HOF.  Anyway, Ridley looks like the real deal (if he can hang onto the football).  He's a better receiver than Benny and I think Vereen could be awesome if he stays healthy. As for WRs, I totally buy into the veteran vs. rookie preference history of Mr. B.  He will add a veteran and probably not draft one at all, unless late.  So Pats, you threw a wrench in the works...  We won't draft a WR, OLB or RB high.  Now what? OL, DL, TE, MLB, CB?  He loves drafting those positions high.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I might be in the minority, but I think by resigning Welker, adding Lloyd and a TE, our offense is set. I don't think we need a WR taken high for reasons I stated earlier. A WR taken high will have minimal impact giving they are the 5th receiving option, unless they beat out Lloyd, and show enough to warrant TB targeting them over Gronk, Hern and Welker. Again, I'd rather grab a WR later who is an an explosive KR for an immediate contribution.

    Vereen represents the X factor for me. If he gets it and can stay healthy, he'll add a lot to this offense.

    I honestly think if BB could have a do over, he would grab Matthews, Barwin or Brooks Reed. For whatever reason those guys didn't appeal to him, but we've seen what they can do on the field. Perhaps this is more about evaluation at the time...don't know.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Ha, That is blasphemy!...Trade Mayo? You must be crazy. Seriously, I'm with you on it. Mayo is a solid LB, but he's no game changer. I don't see us trading him. I think BB loves the kid. Plus the Patrick Willis of the world are rare. So, you trade Mayo for another MLB? Who?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I don't know with who just frustrated on how much Mayo is supposed to be a superstar MLB but he to me is more of a run stuffer than anything else.  Would like someone who can do it all.  But BB does love him and he won't go anywhere. Just thought I throw it out there and get killed for it lol




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I don't know with who just frustrated on how much Mayo is supposed to be a superstar MLB but he to me is more of a run stuffer than anything else.  Would like someone who can do it all.  But BB does love him and he won't go anywhere. Just thought I throw it out there and get killed for it lol
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    The reason BB loves him is because he's a solid dependable tackling machine. He usually isn't out of place and just makes the play, a solid dependable player. Mayo however, isn't a play maker. Bruschi was a play maker and on the Giants first TD Bruschi would have been turned around to either bat the ball away or intercept it. Mayo won't do that but for sure if it was any other place on the field he would have tackler him right there and not let him get anymore yards. You need players like Mayo because they limit the damage and can force teams to make long play consuming drives (which a majority of teams can't do on a consistent basis). But, having players like Mayo won't win you anything unless you can get those couple of impact players to put around them. You need a player other O have to be aware of on the field. Once their concentration is away from Mayo that's when you'll really see Mayo's impact
     

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