***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    Well, it seems that after last night, a few more of us are calling for Fleener in round 1/2. I agree with Pats7393 on this, a healthy Gronk = a different outcome, but the 1 man down/next man up theory only works as well as the next man up...and at this point, we don't have one at either WR or TE.
    A tall, pass catching / blocking TE like Fleener adds an insurance policy + the ability to run 3 TE sets with all 3 being able to catch and block somewhat effectively. Fleener has split outwide in the past and he can line up on the line or in the slot. To me, this makes him more valuable to the Pats than say a Sanu. I think both will go roughly around the same time, so this is why I used Sanu as the comparison.

    I like PatsEng suggestion about grabbing a RB like Chris Rainey. Does anyone thing he adds anything more than what we have in our current stable? I know BB doesn't like to invest heavily in this position, but does the philosophy change if we are running more 2+TE sets that can better optimize an effective runner?  It seems to me the Pats O has morphed considerably than what we had in 07, but it doesn't yet look like we are "complete" here without a more effective run game/runner? Is our current stable enough to make opposing defenses respect the run? My thinking is no.

    There are some free agent RBs available, better than our current stable, and would add instant explosion to our running + passing game. THey will cost money, but perhaps it is worth it. I like Rainey in the draft, but are we just adding average to average talent? Do we need to set our sights a bit higher for the RB position? Again, it's a position we havn't historically paid a ton for, but one that would reap bigger benefits in a 2+ TE offense.






     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I think Romeo knows our value system on picks.  And that makes him also value those type of picks.  He knows that team has some work to get better and I do see Poe as a nice fit, however I see him offering more of the 3rd this year and 1st next.  I could be wrong, of course, but think it is just a little to rich for them with RC knowing us sooooo well.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Well, it seems that after last night, a few more of us are calling for Fleener in round 1/2. I agree with Pats7393 on this, a healthy Gronk = a different outcome, but the 1 man down/next man up theory only works as well as the next man up...and at this point, we don't have one at either WR or TE. A tall, pass catching / blocking TE like Fleener adds an insurance policy + the ability to run 3 TE sets with all 3 being able to catch and block somewhat effectively. Fleener has split outwide in the past and he can line up on the line or in the slot. To me, this makes him more valuable to the Pats than say a Sanu. I think both will go roughly around the same time, so this is why I used Sanu as the comparison. I like PatsEng suggestion about grabbing a RB like Chris Rainey. Does anyone thing he adds anything more than what we have in our current stable? I know BB doesn't like to invest heavily in this position, but does the philosophy change if we are running more 2+TE sets that can better optimize an effective runner?  It seems to me the Pats O has morphed considerably than what we had in 07, but it doesn't yet look like we are "complete" here without a more effective run game/runner? Is our current stable enough to make opposing defenses respect the run? My thinking is no. There are some free agent RBs available, better than our current stable, and would add instant explosion to our running + passing game. THey will cost money, but perhaps it is worth it. I like Rainey in the draft, but are we just adding average to average talent? Do we need to set our sights a bit higher for the RB position? Again, it's a position we havn't historically paid a ton for, but one that would reap bigger benefits in a 2+ TE offense.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I think it depends on their plans for Ridley and Vereen moving forward. We've seen both have explosiveness and both have been looked at as upgrades to Woodhead and BJGE. If Ridley and Vereen can give even 15% more the BJGE and Woodhead then I don't think you need to look at RB truthfully.

    Rainey for me would just be a huge upgrade at ST. Honestly how many times have we started between the 15-25yrd marker. With his speed and quickness if he can add an extra 10yrds to kick offs and punt returns then that is a huge advantage in field position. It would be nice is he comes in as a change of pace back but I think Ridley, Vereen, and Woodhead are your main core moving forward

    I do really think though that you need a starting caliber 3rd TE if we continue to run a 2 TE set. Could BB surprise all of us and grab Allen with #27?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    Yeah, I agree on the ST comments especially. Our KR game is not helping us at all. If Rainey is the guy, and you believe Ridley/Vereen/Woody are enough, then I'll buy it. I have seen some explosiveness by Ridley this year, but I'm wondering if he is a guy other teams gameplan for? This is my main point...the different between 15% more and oppsoing D's having to gameplan for is what makes the difference. I'll put my RB thoughts on hold for now...

    Allen was on my mind as well at the end of round 1. I think he is all around better than Fleener at this point, but I think Fleener is slightly better in terms of his receiving ability, and if Fleener adds another 10-15 lbs, he can be a very effective inline blocker like Gronk and Allen. Depends on what you want out of your TE...I tend to lean to Fleener at this point. Would love to see some comparisons on the 2 from others here.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Well, it seems that after last night, a few more of us are calling for Fleener in round 1/2. I agree with Pats7393 on this, a healthy Gronk = a different outcome, but the 1 man down/next man up theory only works as well as the next man up...and at this point, we don't have one at either WR or TE. A tall, pass catching / blocking TE like Fleener adds an insurance policy + the ability to run 3 TE sets with all 3 being able to catch and block somewhat effectively. Fleener has split outwide in the past and he can line up on the line or in the slot. To me, this makes him more valuable to the Pats than say a Sanu. I think both will go roughly around the same time, so this is why I used Sanu as the comparison. I like PatsEng suggestion about grabbing a RB like Chris Rainey. Does anyone thing he adds anything more than what we have in our current stable? I know BB doesn't like to invest heavily in this position, but does the philosophy change if we are running more 2+TE sets that can better optimize an effective runner?  It seems to me the Pats O has morphed considerably than what we had in 07, but it doesn't yet look like we are "complete" here without a more effective run game/runner? Is our current stable enough to make opposing defenses respect the run? My thinking is no. There are some free agent RBs available, better than our current stable, and would add instant explosion to our running + passing game. THey will cost money, but perhaps it is worth it. I like Rainey in the draft, but are we just adding average to average talent? Do we need to set our sights a bit higher for the RB position? Again, it's a position we havn't historically paid a ton for, but one that would reap bigger benefits in a 2+ TE offense.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I've been high on Fleener in the second for a while but starting to think it will take 31st pick to get him.  There are some teams including the colts that could pick him up in the 2nd.  Dallas Clark is owed a huge salary next season, something like 4.5 mil don't think the colts retain him.  If they draft Luck what better gift to bring in his TE from Stanford.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I've been high on Fleener in the second for a while but starting to think it will take 31st pick to get him.  There are some teams including the colts that could pick him up in the 2nd.  Dallas Clark is owed a huge salary next season, something like 4.5 mil don't think the colts retain him.  If they draft Luck what better gift to bring in his TE from Stanford.
    Posted by Pats7393


    The issue is that they now have a D minded coach and a 34 D minded DC. They are going to rebuild that D from the bottom level up so I think they almost have to go D heavy, esp on the line early. Though a TE would be nice to have for Luck and Fleener is a great pairing with him they won't get very far with a Rook QB and no D at all. The best way to rebuild with a young QB has always been give him a D that will take some pressure off from scoring early and often.

    I think Indy will grab either Poe or Ta'amu with that early 2nd and maybe try to trade back into the mid 2nd if Fleener is still there.

    The other team to watch out for is the Giants. If Allen is taken before the 32nd pick they could target Fleener as a Ballard replacement. Watch out for them to target a TE
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    we also have to look at the players we will be getting back from IR:

    Mike Wright DT

    Myron Pryor DT was decent till injury

    Jeff Tarpinian OLB

    Rich Ohrnberger OG

    Bret Lockett DB

    Dan Koppen C

    Kyle Hix OT

    Ras I Dowling CB (was pretty good before injury)

    Jermaine Cunningham OLB

    Christian Cox LB

    Andre Carter OLB was a godsend till his injury and would to have loved having him in the game last night

    Josh Barrett SS

     

    if we can resign carter,welker, anderson. Pick up brandon Lloyd and a safety, draft a stud Center, another TE, DE, and a Safety i like our chances to return to the SB next year. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : The issue is that they now have a D minded coach and a 34 D minded DC. They are going to rebuild that D from the bottom level up so I think they almost have to go D heavy, esp on the line early. Though a TE would be nice to have for Luck and Fleener is a great pairing with him they won't get very far with a Rook QB and no D at all. The best way to rebuild with a young QB has always been give him a D that will take some pressure off from scoring early and often. I think Indy will grab either Poe or Ta'amu with that early 2nd and maybe try to trade back into the mid 2nd if Fleener is still there. The other team to watch out for is the Giants. If Allen is taken before the 32nd pick they could target Fleener as a Ballard replacement. Watch out for them to target a TE
    Posted by PatsEng


    If I were them which I'm not I rather get a FA NT than draft one.  Such key to the 34 D, they don't have many (if any) pieces they can move from a 43 to a 34.  A rookie NT might not be the best option for them, I wouldn't be surpriced if they didn't make a run at Antonio Garay (chargers) or Pouha (jets).
    They need a lot of help to move to a 34.
    They might try to go grab one of those DE/OLBs though or a 34 DE.  For a NT I think they with an experienced player.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:

    My response in Blue

    we also have to look at the players we will be getting back from IR:

    Mike Wright DT

    To many concussion issues. Best if he retires most likely won't give you much even if he comes back

    Myron Pryor DT was decent till injury

    A couple of years in a row now with injury issues. I wouldn't count of him to give anything considering he's been IR more then he has been on the active roster in his short career

     

    Jeff Tarpinian OLB

    Has the chance to be the cover LB we need but didn't show much as a pass rusher. looks to be Guytons replacement next year

     

    Rich Ohrnberger OG

    Hasn't given much when healthy and has been a disappointment so far in his career. Might be decent depth but nothing more from what I can see

     

    Bret Lockett DB

    Another injury prone player hasn't played a game since 09'

    Dan Koppen C

    Might be best if he retires. to injury prone to last couple of years

    Kyle Hix OT

    Good backup but 3rd on depth chart not a factor

    Ras I Dowling CB (was pretty good before injury)

    This guy I'm hoping for big things out of. Of all this list he's the only one with a shot at a starting job

    Jermaine Cunningham OLB

    He was a healthy scratch for a good part of the season and only placed on IR in Dec. Showed flashes his rook year but had major regression his soph. I don't expect much from him

    Christian Cox LB

    A UDFA how much can we actually expect from him?

    Andre Carter OLB was a godsend till his injury and would to have loved having him in the game last night

    A major loss but now has issues with both knees and given his age even if he comes back how much can we expect from him. I still hope they bring him back though

    Josh Barrett SS

    Yet another injury ridden S that showed flashes but nothing special. Wouldn't count on him either

    if we can resign carter,welker, anderson. Pick up brandon Lloyd and a safety, draft a stud Center, another TE, DE, and a Safety i like our chances to return to the SB next year. 


    Truthfully of that list they are all pretty much backups, injury prone, at the end of their careers due to injury. Only Ras on that list I would say isn't fighting for a spot on the team, add Tarp and Carter as the only players I would considered bringing back. The rest you could dump and I would have no issue with them not taking up space and cap room on the team. Just to many question marks regarding injury history's
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : If I were them which I'm not I rather get a FA NT than draft one.  Such key to the 34 D, they don't have many (if any) pieces they can move from a 43 to a 34.  A rookie NT might not be the best option for them, I wouldn't be surpriced if they didn't make a run at Antonio Garay (chargers) or Pouha (jets). They need a lot of help to move to a 34. They might try to go grab one of those DE/OLBs though or a 34 DE.  For a NT I think they with an experienced player.
    Posted by Pats7393


    Normally I would agree but at this point they almost have to blow up the team completely and start fresh. When you are only a couple pieces away or have a good base then a vet makes a lot of sense but bringing in a 32yr old Garay or a 33yr old Pouha doesn't make a ton of sense. In 2-3 yrs they would just have to replace them and that might be how long it takes for Luck to become a top end QB and for them to be a playoff team again. Better to start off young with a Poe or Ta'amu and try to build around them. There will be growing pains but if Luck and Poe/Ta'amu start to enter their primes at the same time 2-3 years into the league then you have two anchors on each side of the ball. If nether works out then you can bring in a vet but this is a great chance to build a strong base while Luck is still in those growing pain years
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    can we end the TE in round 2 talk now? can only throw so many short passes, we need a big bodied deep threat at WR.
    Posted by ricky12684

    I agree we need to retool our WR corps.  We are set in the slot with Welker/Edelman.  For me, Branch should be brought back only if he comes cheap and is used as a back up.  We need a burner on the outside and a tall possession receiver.  I'm not sure Brandon Lloyd fits either mold but he has decent size and can still make plays and would be an upgrade over Branch. 

    If we were looking to the draft the burners:

    Kendall Wright - probably a top 15 pick
    Joe Adams - probably a 3-4th rounder
    Jarius Wright - probably a 4-5th rounder
    TJ Graham - 6-7th round
    Devon Wylie -7th-UDFA
    Dorian Graham - UDFA
    Travis Benjamin - UDFA

    If we consider tall 6-2, there are a ton of WRs in this class up and down the board.  If we look at what Hakeem Nicks did to us yesterday as a prototype, he was 6-1, 212, 4.51.  He was drafted at #29 by the Giants in 2009 (which I felt was about 15 spots too high at the time).  We won't get true 40 times until the Combine but these guys fit the size requirements.

    Justin Blackmon, 6-1, 215
    Michael Floyd, 6-3, 224
    Mohamed Sanu 6-2, 215
    Alshon Jeffrey 6-4, 229
    Rueben Randle 6-3, 208
    Stephen Hill 6-4, 206
    Nick Toon, 6-2, 220
    Juron Criner 6-2, 220
    Dwight Jones, 6-3, 226
    Brian Quick 6-4, 222
    Tommy Streeter, 6-4, 215

    I have all of these guys in my top 100.  Counting Joe Adams, we could see 13 WRs go in the first three rounds.  If we consider Blackmon, Floyd and Wright gone by 27 that leaves Sanu and Jeffrey in consideration at 27/31.  Jeffrey may even slip to 47.  But since BB has NEVER taken a WR in round 1, you have a group of 5 guys in red that could be in the conversation at 47/63.  Of that group in red, Nick Toon looks to be the fastest on film, probably low 4.5s.

    When there is positional depth, BB likes to wait and get more value.  I could see a Randle or Toon at 63 or a Criner or Jones at 95.  We probably are going to see him take his guy at 27 then trade 31 back 5-6 spots and pick up a 4th or 5th.  BB loves legacy players so I'm going to pencil in Nick Toon at 63 and the sheer speed of Jarius Wright probably allows him to slip into the back of the 3rd round. 

    63  WR Nick Toon
    95  WR Jarius Wright

    I think these two picks bring us much needed youth at the WR position and a skill set which is lacking today.  Something like this doesn't violate BB's drafting principles and keeps our top 3 picks for other bigger needs.  Yes we only scored 17 points, matching our lowest point total of the season (Steelers).  We held the Giants to 21 and that should have been enough to beat them.  Had we covered one of those fumbles or caught one of those dropped balls, it would have been a different outcome.

    Not only do I question the quality of our WR corps, I also now wonder about our OL and RBs.  But clearly not having a healthy Gronk probably allowed the pick and affected the outcome of the game.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Normally I would agree but at this point they almost have to blow up the team completely and start fresh. When you are only a couple pieces away or have a good base then a vet makes a lot of sense but bringing in a 32yr old Garay or a 33yr old Pouha doesn't make a ton of sense. In 2-3 yrs they would just have to replace them and that might be how long it takes for Luck to become a top end QB and for them to be a playoff team again. Better to start off young with a Poe or Ta'amu and try to build around them. There will be growing pains but if Luck and Poe/Ta'amu start to enter their primes at the same time 2-3 years into the league then you have two anchors on each side of the ball. If nether works out then you can bring in a vet but this is a great chance to build a strong base while Luck is still in those growing pain years
    Posted by PatsEng


    For some reason I thought Garay was 28, think I had him confused with Soliai (Miami).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    we also have to look at the players we will be getting back from IR: Mike Wright DT Myron Pryor DT was decent till injury Jeff Tarpinian OLB Rich Ohrnberger OG Bret Lockett DB Dan Koppen C Kyle Hix OT Ras I Dowling CB (was pretty good before injury) Jermaine Cunningham OLB Christian Cox LB Andre Carter OLB was a godsend till his injury and would to have loved having him in the game last night Josh Barrett SS   if we can resign carter,welker, anderson. Pick up brandon Lloyd and a safety, draft a stud Center, another TE, DE, and a Safety i like our chances to return to the SB next year. 
    Posted by natesubs

    Nate, I think a lot of these guys won't be back.  My comments in blue:

    we also have to look at the players we will be getting back from IR:

    Mike Wright DT Concussion problems and he frees $1.8MM if cut, he's gone.

    Myron Pryor DT was decent till injury Yes, adds depth in 43 fronts

    Jeff Tarpinian OLB At best core special teams player

    Rich Ohrnberger OG hasn't shown anything, won't be a factor

    Bret Lockett DB hasn't played since 2009, keeps getting hurt.

    Dan Koppen C Was costing the cap $5MM, probably won't be back for that money

    Kyle Hix OT Probably lucky to make Practice Squad next year.

    Ras I Dowling CB (was pretty good before injury) If he stays healthy he could really help us.

    Jermaine Cunningham OLB he'll get cut if he so much as catches a cold next year.

    Christian Cox LB Undrafted 26 year old rookie with a neck injury.

    Andre Carter OLB was a godsend till his injury and would to have loved having him in the game last night yes but turns 33 in May.  That's a bit old to recover from an ACL and be the same player.  Usually takes a full year to recover and by then he'll be 34.  I doubt he comes back.

    Josh Barrett SS He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before he got hurt.

     

    if we can resign carter,welker, anderson. Pick up brandon Lloyd and a safety, draft a stud Center, another TE, DE, and a Safety i like our chances to return to the SB next year. 

    I agree with Welker and Anderson.  I think Lloyd would make an excellent pick up, we could then not resign Branch and his $2.2MM can go towards the younger Lloyd.  For Centers I would favor bringing back both Connolly and Wendell and perhaps adding Jeff Saturday.  We don't want to be starting a rookie unless it's a top shelf rookie (Konz).  We typically like to draft centers late and develop them.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Well boys this one hurt and it's reflective of the same problems we've had the last couple of years: 1) Inconsistent pass rush - Eli had practically all day to throw in a perfect pocket. The few times we got to Eli was because the coverage held for so long the DL had time to get to Manning. However, Eli had time and stepped up on most throws 2) Lost secondary - Moore made some plays and Chung with McCourty were fine in the secondary but Molden, Arrington, and even Moore were being killed with basic moves. Moves vets wouldn't have bought on 3) The lose of Gronk and receivers - Without Gronk we saw a huge difference with the receivers and Brady. Branch looked his age and Welker missed a rare catch. But it came down to not having 3 capable receivers. It was basically Welker and Hern and that's about it. Which is why it shocked me the didn't try to run it more 4) The lack of a running game. Yet again we see an unbalanced O with almost a couple abandonment of the running game in the second half How can all this be fixed? Well here are my thoughts: 1) This we need to take care of in the draft. You can resign either Anderson or Carter but I wouldn't sign both. What the Pats need is speed and raw power. An edge rusher and an interior rusher to push that pocket and drive the QB from his spot. You need a consistent pass rushing threat and that's one thing that has been lacking 2) This I really feel you need to blow up and go with some vets. Moore, McCourty, Ras, Chung and the only sure one's I would consider bringing back. Arrington is on the fence but vets are needed. You need a vet S and a vet CB. You can grab 1 young kid in the draft however, you need vets to not be beat by basic moves. 3) Need to diversify the receiving core. You need another TE that can replace Hern and Gronk incase of injury and you need an outside a numbers WR. One that can either stretch the field with speed or one that can go up and out fight for the ball in the air. The outside the numbers WR is tough considering Brady doesn't like working with WR's and getting them acclimated with the system. This is where I think someone like Lloyd is going to be worth his weight in gold. 4) Simply put this is a coaching issue. Need to develop a running game earlier and trust your RB's. Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead under contract you have a good running core but the coaching staff needs to trust them. I am extremely worried about Vereen. Basically redshirted his entire rook season scares me that they don't see a lot in this kid Sigh I'll post what I would do this off-season in a bit but this post is getting long so I'll let it go at this
    Posted by PatsEng

    Got to wonder if we'll bring back the Law Firm.  Yes he doesn't fumble but 3.7 ypc in the play-offs isn't good enough.  Plus, do we really want little Woodhead (3.6 ypc) running between the tackles?  The only back that had success in the play-offs was Ridley (4/21/5.3ypc) and unless I'm mistaken that was all against Denver because of his fumblitis.

    If we look to the draft for a decent sized back that can run there are some options but will BB spend another high pick at RB when he spent 2 last year?  I don't see a front line F/A back that will be available as a better option to BJGE.  The only one that might be available is Marshawn Lynch and I can't see him as a Patriot with his character.  So if we look to the draft, after Richardson, I don't think another RB will go in the first round unless it's late, like us at 31.  Would we pull the trigger on Miller or Wilson?  Both backs are similar in stature to BJGE but a whole lot faster.  We might even be able to get one of them at 47 or with a trade back from 31.  At 47, Doug Martin enters the conversation but I just don't think we'd do it this year, certainly not with a high pick.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    if we can resign carter,welker, anderson. Pick up brandon Lloyd and a safety, draft a stud Center, another TE, DE, and a Safety i like our chances to return to the SB next year. 
    Posted by natesubs


    That is a lot of "if's". Who knows if we can Carter will be 100% if the Patriots re-sign him. Anderson may look elsewhere for more $$$. Welker will get the franchise tag. How many stud centers come out in a given year? In addition, you want to pick up another TE, another DE and a starting safety. Plus, you have to assume every other player returns. 

    On the defensive line, Carter, Anderson, Ellis, and Warren all are free agents. The have exclusive rights to Love so he will be back. Gary Guyton is another. James Ihedigbo (who I believe started more games in the defensive backfield than anyone else) is another free agent. Branch and Slater could both be gone (Branch was the No. 2 WR and Slater was the best special teamer). BJGE can walk as well. Also, Connolly is a free agent.

    We will see what the roster looks like going into camp. That is 10 guys (not counting Welker) who all saw reasonable playing time with this season. True non of the are big name players, but you need a team not just Brady, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. That is why they lost last night, trying to rely on four guys to win the Super Bowl.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    The Feb 6 mock on nepatriotsdraft.com has us landing Nick Perry  OLB/DE  USC at 27 and Janoris Jenkins at 31.  That would be just about ideal for the 1st round as far as I'm concerned.  The more I look at Perry, the more I like him.  Jenkins has a few character concerns, but may be the best cover corner in this class.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    The Feb 6 mock on nepatriotsdraft.com has us landing Nick Perry  OLB/DE  USC at 27 and Janoris Jenkins at 31.  That would be just about ideal for the 1st round as far as I'm concerned.  The more I look at Perry, the more I like him.  Jenkins has a few character concerns, but may be the best cover corner in this class.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    I would take that in a heart beat. Past Upshaw he might be the best 34OLB/43DE in the draft. He's got the track record of Curry but against better competition and he's got the impact or Mercilus but has done for more then one year.

    Jenkins I've been very high on and didn't think he could make ti to the back end of the round. Provided we get Wolfe or Reyes and tack in a WR or TE with the other 2nd I don't know who couldn't like that draft
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Got to wonder if we'll bring back the Law Firm.  Yes he doesn't fumble but 3.7 ypc in the play-offs isn't good enough.  Plus, do we really want little Woodhead (3.6 ypc) running between the tackles?  The only back that had success in the play-offs was Ridley (4/21/5.3ypc) and unless I'm mistaken that was all against Denver because of his fumblitis. If we look to the draft for a decent sized back that can run there are some options but will BB spend another high pick at RB when he spent 2 last year?  I don't see a front line F/A back that will be available as a better option to BJGE.  The only one that might be available is Marshawn Lynch and I can't see him as a Patriot with his character.  So if we look to the draft, after Richardson, I don't think another RB will go in the first round unless it's late, like us at 31.  Would we pull the trigger on Miller or Wilson?  Both backs are similar in stature to BJGE but a whole lot faster.  We might even be able to get one of them at 47 or with a trade back from 31.  At 47, Doug Martin enters the conversation but I just don't think we'd do it this year, certainly not with a high pick.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I don't think you go RB early in the draft. You just spent a late 2nd and 3rd on RB's with high talent. You have to give them a chance to show what they have. Besides there are bigger needs then an RB on a team built for the pass.

    Maybe bring in an aging vet though on the backside of their career to pick up some careers every so often while letting Ridley and Vereen carry the load like a Maurice Morris type
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Pick 27/31 gets us to about pick 10.  Is there any player that we would consider a move this big to get?

    Coples
    Upshaw
    Blackmon

    Just asking.  I might do it for Coples if we are staying in a 43.  Upshaw, maybe but I don't think BB would do it for him, too short.  Imagine what Blackmon would do for our offense but we need far too much help on D to consider him.

    Would we go 31/63 to move up to 19 for Konz?  I might like that.
    Would we go 27/95 to go to 21 for Mark Barron?  That might be good.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Pick 27/31 gets us to about pick 10.  Is there any player that we would consider a move this big to get? Coples Upshaw Blackmon Just asking.  I might do it for Coples if we are staying in a 43.  Upshaw, maybe but I don't think BB would do it for him, too short.  Imagine what Blackmon would do for our offense but we need far too much help on D to consider him. Would we go 31/63 to move up to 19 for Konz?  I might like that. Would we go 27/95 to go to 21 for Mark Barron?  That might be good.
    Posted by Faucetman


    If I was moving up that far it would be for an interior presence. A Still or Brockers and nothing else. Edge rushers are needed but you can find them in the late 1st early 2nd and Upshaw/Coples might be uniquely talented players but if the QB can just step up into the pocket edge rushers won't do much good. It all starts from the center of the line and ripples out from there. A strong front presence from the interior affects the D more as a whole then any other position.

    God, I feel like I'm on an infinite loop as I've been saying this in the 09', 10', 11' drafts when I've been calling for a stronger interior and edge presence and less of these toss away secondary high picks
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    That's weird Faucetman, I was just thinking the same thing. That player, for me, would be Upshaw. Welker gets franchised and some one like Sanu or another WR falls to us in the 2nd. Does this mean you don't think say pick 27 and pick 47 would net us a top 15 pick ? Two 1sts is something I do for a virtual certainty (some one like Suh on the D Line for example or Patrick Willis at LB); has to be a lock. People on this board would go nuts if we traded two 1sts for Keith McCants.

    Of all the trades you brought up 27/95 for Barron might make the most sense.

    I haven't looked at other teams needs Coples could go as high as 6-9 and I just don't see Belichick trading up that high. 10-15 range seems more likely.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Pick 27/31 gets us to about pick 10.  Is there any player that we would consider a move this big to get? Coples Upshaw Blackmon Just asking.  I might do it for Coples if we are staying in a 43.  Upshaw, maybe but I don't think BB would do it for him, too short.  Imagine what Blackmon would do for our offense but we need far too much help on D to consider him. Would we go 31/63 to move up to 19 for Konz?  I might like that. Would we go 27/95 to go to 21 for Mark Barron?  That might be good.
    Posted by Faucetman


    At this moment in time I would say no.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from profootball. Show profootball's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Will see in March who does BB pick?  This super bowl lost makes BB and Tom are hunger more to get back.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : If I was moving up that far it would be for an interior presence. A Still or Brockers and nothing else. Edge rushers are needed but you can find them in the late 1st early 2nd and Upshaw/Coples might be uniquely talented players but if the QB can just step up into the pocket edge rushers won't do much good. It all starts from the center of the line and ripples out from there. A strong front presence from the interior affects the D more as a whole then any other position. God, I feel like I'm on an infinite loop as I've been saying this in the 09', 10', 11' drafts when I've been calling for a stronger interior and edge presence and less of these toss away secondary high picks
    Posted by PatsEng


    I need to watch more but while I like Brockers people really are putting a ton into the fact that he is still a baby and projecting what he may become. I don't love doing that but he is interesting/tempting for sure.

    Still? At this point in my early evaluation I am taking Fletcher Cox over him.

    Here is some food for thought on your interrior 34 DE types you are pining about. Which as you know i have been saying as well over the past number of drafts.

    Player      Body Mass Index    Gms   T    S    T/Gm   TFL    S   QBH
    Brockers             46               27    79   34    2.93     11      2     5
    Cox                    46               36    114  53    3.17   23.5   7.5    9
    Still                    46               39    113  55    2.90   32.5  10.5   2
    Wolfe                 44               44    162   89    3.68    37    18.5  9

    * Typically the Pats have used players of body mass index over 50 alot lately even though both Seymour (45) and Warren (47) were under 50.

    Pryor, Love, Wilfork, Brace, Lekevin Smith all over the 50 index.

    You can see Cox has the same or better production for the most part to Still AND while playing in the SEC.

    The real value play I have come across so far is that Wolfe kid. However if you break it down further into quality Tackles of how many solo per Tackle his ratio is much less than the others. That could mean he just has a high motor and pursues all over the field raising his total tackles or that he is a lil bit of a pig piler? or a bit of both.

    The other thing is not knowing what there respective marching orders are. Eat blocks vs make plays.

    I have read on numerous occasions, for example, that Worthy, who I did not list, faced a substantial amount of double teams over the last 2 seasons.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    They need Upshaw. 
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share