***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : He might not even last that long
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Seattle might take a look at him, play all over that DL.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I want a guy who brings speed around the edge, now question is did he play faster because of level of competition or is he quicker in short bursts? If he drops in coverage most TEs now will give him trouble keeping up.  Getting outside to the flats to cover a RB could be trouble.  
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    If you are looking for burst around the corner then keep your eye on the cone drills. That will show more of his burst around a corner then 40 times honestly.

    I don't even know why they have DL run 40's truthfully. Unless they are going to be MLB's or 43 OLB's who will have to be keeping pace with slot guys or TE's then 40 times are essentially meaningless. Look at Spikes. We've seen him run down runners running to the edge and we've seen him shot a gap and break up a hand off. Unless you are talking about a clean release (which is rare for edge rushers) they generally have to worry more about CoD and speed around a lineman working the shoulders.

    IMO cone is a much better judge to go by then 40 and 10yrd split times
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    I wouldn't worry about Brocker's reps we're not getting him.  Most mocks have him in the upper half of the draft.  Some team will fall in love with his upside.  Not that BB would pass him up if he were there, but I think he'd even prefer a guy who put together some good film.  I liked Cox to begin with but hope that his combine performance doesn't push him out of our reach.  I could see BB moving up ahead of Denver at 25 to snag him.  I don't think he's averse to moving up a couple of spots in the first round as he's done it twice before, but I don't see him giving up what it would take to move into the top half of the draft.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : If you are looking for burst around the corner then keep your eye on the cone drills. That will show more of his burst around a corner then 40 times honestly. I don't even know why they have DL run 40's truthfully. Unless they are going to be MLB's or 43 OLB's who will have to be keeping pace with slot guys or TE's then 40 times are essentially meaningless. Look at Spikes. We've seen him run down runners running to the edge and we've seen him shot a gap and break up a hand off. Unless you are talking about a clean release (which is rare for edge rushers) they generally have to worry more about CoD and speed around a lineman working the shoulders. IMO cone is a much better judge to go by then 40 and 10yrd split times
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    for the OLB types, the 40 applies for long speed in coverage for DL I agree.  Last I knew (unless you are Tebow) a QB is not going to drop back 40 yards. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Jake Bequette, 1.70, 4.78 6'5" 274.  I like this kid, been high on him for a while, can't wait to see him in cone and LB drills.  Better setting the edge than rushing the passer but overall good football player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : for the OLB types, the 40 applies for long speed in coverage for DL I agree.  Last I knew (unless you are Tebow) a QB is not going to drop back 40 yards. 
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Even then Pats, you have to break it down to 43 OLB's and 34 coverage OLB's. When you are generally talking 34 rush OLB's/43 DE tweeners, their job usually doesn't fall further then 5yrds behind the line. If they are in coverage it's generally an underneath zone that gets passed off quickly to S's and CB's. If someone like Brown or Lewis ran that speed I'd have concern but a Curry, Mercilus, Perry, Ingram I'd be more worried if they ran a bad cone
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Wow, Brockers is a beast.  He'll go top 10.  What did Ta'amu and Poe check in at?
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Ta'amu- 6-3 348 (35 reps @ 225), but his arms were a bit short at 32 inches.

    Poe- 6-4 346 (44 reps @ 225), also had shorter 32 inch arms.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    This may be a little off topic, but did you guys make anything out of McDaniels watching from a club suite while Belichick was sitting in the stands during the WR drills yesterday? 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Things when I see DL and LB's

    I break them down to different groups:

    interior DL - the large guys who will be NT's or large DT's at the pro level. Might be larger Ty Warren type 34DE's but they are there to gobble up lineman and push larger G's/C's backwards. I look at bench (30+ is good, 40+ is excellent, 25- is bad), cone, reaction drills, and 1v1 against OL

    edge rushers - typically smaller 34 DE's and 43 DE's that could be tweeners at the nest level. I look for bench (25+ good, 30+ excellent, -20 is bad). I also look for cone, 20yrd shuttle, and reaction drills. I'm more concerned with their sideline to sideline speed and CoD ability

    coverage LBs - smaller LBs usually 43 LB's and smaller 34 ILB's. For them I look at their 10yrd split times, both shuttles, cone, and reaction drills. I want to see speed, CoD ability, and ability to read and react

    Run stopping LBs - generally larger MLB, ILB players meant to contain inside the box and provide interior rush. For them I'm concerned about the bench, cone, reaction drills, and some coverage ability
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]This may be a little off topic, but did you guys make anything out of McDaniels watching from a club suite while Belichick was sitting in the stands during the WR drills yesterday? 
    Posted by ShiningWizard[/QUOTE]

    Nope,

    BB prefers to watch from the stands, always has. McDaniels prefers the suite level because if gives him a better overhead view on routes.

    It's actually smart to get the 2 different view points as from the stands you can see adjustments and body control better while the overhead is better for seeing how sharp routes are run and a better judge of how quick a player actually is
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Good, remember Spikes had a slow 40 and his stock was killed by it. 40 is meaningless to DL and rushing LB's. If he stock is hurt better chance we can grab him
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    He ran much better the 2nd time and his 10yard split on both runs even his lousy one was good. 2nd much better but you can see he's a quick guy not a fast.

    I don't care about the 40's I was just surprised to see a few of these big guys run 4.7 at 300lbs is all. They probably do every year just don't remember cause its ultimately not important.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]My favorite day of the draft, DL and LBs.  My list of to watch: First one is Brett Roy 6'3" 275, has played S moved to LB moved to DT at Nevada.  Does he participate on LB drills, how does he move?  He's got some cover skill but his speed and hips will be key to me if he wants to be an OLB. LB/DE Curry Jacquies Smith Malik Jackson Jake Bequette Andre Branch Jonathan Massaquoi McClellin Hightower (and still high on Zach Brown OLB, want to see him run and show how athletic he is) DT/DE Poe (movement skills, is he athletic enough to play DE?) Reyes looks the part, want to see him moving Ta'amu (same as Poe) Kheeston Randall, I like Randall I know there are some areas he needs to work on but he's got all the tools.  Needs coaching but can be a good DE Wolfe Travian Robertson (kid to watch from South Carolina, needs better technique but has power and speed 6'4" 300lbs) Winn Tyrone Crawford 
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Zack Brown....With his measurables he should have had better collegiate production as a penetrator.  With improved competition at the pro level I don't foresee him being a better penetrator than his history would indicate. He is easily tied up at the LOS and needs open lanes to be effective. Also, his speed might suggest that he would be great in pass coverage but even that dimension was not in evidence at the college level.

    I tend to view him as another Guyton....
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : He ran much better the 2nd time and his 10yard split on both runs even his lousy one was good. 2nd much better but you can see he's a quick guy not a fast. I don't care about the 40's I was just surprised to see a few of these big guys run 4.7 at 300lbs is all. They probably do every year just don't remember cause its ultimately not important.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Ohh I love watching the DL run 40's I find it hilarious honestly. But occasional a 300+ guy runs a sub 4.8 and everyone gets so excited and says we have to get him. To me I really like to see what they do when they have the rip and swim drills. That has a huge factor imo on how good of a rusher they will be in the pro's. If they can't perform well in the rip and swim drills then they won't function well as a rusher at the next level
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Anybody have any impressions of Trent Richardson? I heard he is a corey dillon type. I would argue that he is more than just a Corey Dillon as he can break a long run and has the ability to break a lot of tackles.

    The main knock I have heard is the same one A.P had on him coming out, that he gets hit too much and may not be durable in the NFL.

    I know a lot of folks are happy w/Ridley and Vareen, and I like them, but they arent feature backs, IMO


    Ideally,. you would have Richardson be a starter, Ridley as a change of pace, and Vareen as the 3rd down back.

    Add in a 4th guy like Woody to just be the jack of all trades , emergency back and resign Polite, and you have your 5 backs going into camp.

    Just dont know how high Trent will go and if the Pats are willing to use a 1st rounder. We have got burned with Maroney and you never know, but Trent is no Maroney, I know that.


    Any thoughts on this guy in regards to the Pats, or just defense in early rounds?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Ahh the yearly pet peeve of Mayock and all the others expecting a certain guy to do a drill a particular way and talk to it as the player does it and that highly rated prospect doesn't do it anywhere neear as well as they are saying he's going it lol
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Yes more than 40 agreed but in the way they do it? Not so much. Again no equipment AND more importantly you are leaving on your own accord when you are good and ready and relaxed. You will get a completely different set of results if the players had to leave on a varying cadence, including hard counts by a QB and ball(snap) movement. ...and by results I don't mean times, that part is obvious. I mean a very different set of top performers. Especially if you add a 10th of a second to a players time for every time they jump off side. ...but all of that would make too much sense to do.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    All this information may be relevant but in the end there are "true" FOOTBALL guys that save an extra gear when facing competition. It is that "intangible" that only surfaces on the field that allows the true athletes to play through pain and exhaustion to rise above. No amount of Combine testing will tell all there is to know about what drives the competitive spirit but past production, in the face of adversity, may provide the best insight.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Ahh the yearly pet peeve of Mayock and all the others expecting a certain guy to do a drill a particular way and talk to it as the player does it and that highly rated prospect doesn't do it anywhere neear as well as they are saying he's going it lol
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Who was it this year? I'm at work so I don't get a chance to watch it live  : (
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Just finished Day 2.  We all have a lot of the same observations.  Hill was fast, slowed excellent hands, loved the diving catch on the deep route.  I know the kid is a hard evaluation but he POTENTIALLY could kill two birds, giving us that deep threat and the big body.  Imagine if he was the real deal and we put him on the field with Gronk, Hern, and Welker?  OMG, we'll be accused of cheating _ AGAIN!! I forgot which of you were talking up Devon Wylie, too many posts plus my memory sucks.  Anyway, I was impressed big time with this kid today.  He could be the next Welker but with speed to go along with the quicks.  They have the same 5-9, 185 frame.  What is the deal with this kid, not much production?  From Fresno State, so he's got that connection with Mankins.  I bet this kid has BB's attention.  He could be a solid late round addition.  I hate to say this and sound cold, but anytime a player is over 30 and is over that $5MM cap number, it seems BB starts looking for their replacement. Mike, your boy Floyd obviously tore it up and could be the 2nd WR taken, perhaps to SD.  So, he'll likely be long gone but it seems when the draft is deep at a certain position, BB likes to wait to get value later on.  But with our need at WR so big and the number of high picks we have, I could see us taking a Randle or Hill in that mid 2nd range then come back for a Wylie later on.  We could tag Welker for a year to see how Wylie performs.  If he looks good, we do a tag and trade the following year.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Wylie's been my guy, he was one of my original Top 25 targets and I haven't taken him off the list.  He was one of, if not the fastest, most sudden players that I've seen on tape and has value on ST.. the knock is his size (5-9 187) and durability (he's had some injuries)... but overall, I think he looks like the kind of WR that BB has historically been interested in.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]On the topic of 40 times. 40 times shouldn't be the end all be all but used more as a comparison for WR's within the draft. Honestly unless a WR blows the times away every draft class is about the same. The top 5% are always about the same speed regardless of class the middle 60% are always about the same and the back 5% are always about the same. Since Hill is in the top 5% you can be assured that he is comparable to the fastest guys from previous years. I don't trust pro-day 40's because of the difference in track speed but at least in the combine it's an equal playing field What I don't get was 12 years ago when I was in HS and running track, during the state meets they had you wear timing devices on your shoes. When the tag crossed the line it triggered and when you crossed the finish line it stopped. It never affected the outcome but gave you a true 100m time. Why would that be difficult to use?
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    My mental picture of PE was apparently inaccurate... for some reason, I thought you were older than me (I'm 33)... but you're apparantly 30 or almost 30, if my math is correct... random I know haha
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : My mental picture of PE was apparently inaccurate... for some reason, I thought you were older than me (I'm 33)... but you're apparantly 30 or almost 30, if my math is correct... random I know haha
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    30 is the correct number. Great math work

    just out of curiousity why did you think I was older  lol
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Jake Bequette, 1.70, 4.78 6'5" 274.  I like this kid, been high on him for a while, can't wait to see him in cone and LB drills.  Better setting the edge than rushing the passer but overall good football player.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    Bequette is looking great in the drills as is Jamie Blatnick from Okla State.  Curry didn't impress me in the 40 and I think he may be just a 43 DE.  Andre Branch, wow!!!  Very fast, quick, and fluid.  Fletcher Cox has solidified my first choice at 27 but he may not be there anymore.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Apparently after then drills yesterday K Wright has projected to fall out of the 1st along with Sanu. They could both work their ways back into the 1st with good pro-days

    This could be good and bad.

    Bad - Not going before #27 means that someone who might have fallen to us won't fall to us. It could also mean both Randle and Hill could be taken in the 1st.

    Good - A team needing a WR might see their fall and trade up to #31 to grab either one. If both make it to the 2nd with Randle and Hill it could push either Randle or Hill to us at #48
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : 30 is the correct number. Great math work just out of curiousity why did you think I was older  lol
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Haha, no idea... you know when you get a mental picture of somebody for no apparent reason?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Not sure anyone of us ever suggested the contrary. Only that there are very simple obvious logical ways to do a more "closely" related apples to apples type of analysis. That's all.

    You could do the things I mentioned as well as having them actually compete. Heck why just a Sr bowl? Why not a best prospect bowl? Or even a competition like a like training camp to decide who even makes the roster for that best prospect bowl? Not scout determined, player determine man vs man.

    The obvious is they don't want injuries but that would clearly define it.

    It would put egg on many a scouts faces for certain.

    They don't do any of those things. That's why there are so many UDFA's in the league.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Bequette is looking great in the drills as is Jamie Blatnick from Okla State.  Curry didn't impress me in the 40 and I think he may be just a 43 DE.  Andre Branch, wow!!!  Very fast, quick, and fluid.  Fletcher Cox has solidified my first choice at 27 but he may not be there anymore.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Well I think most felt he was going to go to Den at #25 but after this combine might have played himself into a top 20 pick

    Branch is another guy I'm looking at besides Curry. How are they both looking in the rip and swim drills. That will be a good indication on their pass rushing ability, not so much the 40 times
     

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