***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think they'd leave Mayo inside, kick Hightower out.  Mayo, IMO, is too small to play on the outside and would have problems setting the edge.  Hightower on the other hand is a lot bigger, has much better length, is much stronger at the POA and already has experince rushing off the edge.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I was looking at the Mayo's speed, for some reason I thought he was closer to 6'3 than 6'1.  Dumervil is 5'11 but 260, 15lbs heavier than Mayo don't think as fast.  If they have a dominant DE I think Mayo can move outside at least like to see what he can do.  
    You are right though, Hightower just looks like a prototypical 34 OLB.  Boy that would be a nice problem to have figure out what you do with these guys.  I'm sure BB will comeup with some nice rotations and alignments.  Would love to see Ahmad Brooks added to that group

    OLB Hightower MLB Mayo MLB Spikes OLB Brooks
    DE Carriker NT VW DE Deadrick/Reyes(R)/Randall(R) 
    depending who's drafted
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]RE: Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Solid list Mike.

    Below are players that interest me (Including a lot of their own):

    WR:

    Wes Welker- Likely to be franchised
    Vincent Jackson- Makes a ton of sense YES, but hoping we don't have to use the tag and get a cap friendly 3-4 year deal that is team friendly.
    Brandon Lloyd- Has the obvious link and a skill set that matches their O YES, in the discussion
    Mario Manningham- Has the ideal skill set for NE’s O YES, in the discussion
    Deion Branch- Depth player if cheap like less than $1.8MM
    Eddie Royal- Another good skill set fit. I thought of Royal because he is no longer a focus in Denver with the emergence of Decker and Thomas but do we need another slot receiver with Welker and Edelman? 
    Matt Slater- ST stud Yes, but could he go? We saw that with Tate, Aiken and Washington.  BB won't over pay for a ST gunner, he'll find a new one.
    DeSean Jackson - Let's at least discuss it.  I know he's a prima dona and has clearly worn out his welcome in Philly.  The guy can get behind a defense and he is an electric return man.  He is probably not a good locker room fit but we've seen BB get these types of personalities and hold them together, for awhile at least.
    Marquis Colston - He caught 80 passes for 1,143 yards and 8 touchdowns last year and was sensational in the playoff loss to the 49ers in which he caught 9 passes for 136 yards and a touchdown.  He is a big time clutch receiver and we could've used one of them last Sunday.


    RB:
    Benny- Solid, yet unspectacular  IDK, I waffle on him.  He was a non factor in the SB. Love the no fumbles. But with 3.7 avg behind this OL and against the easiest schedule in the league last year?  I would not show him the money.  He earned $1.8MM last year and I don't think he's worth a dime more than that.  He gives you nothing as a receiver, has ZERO bust.  I'd like to see us either use the Ridley/Vereen tandum or get someone in here that would upgrade our rushing attack.  Nobody was biting on Brady's play action in the second half of the SB or most of the season unless we were up big. 
    Peyton Hillis- Only if he comes at a great value, they're not spending big on a RB
    Jason Snelling- Good veteran depth
    LeRod Stephens Howling- He's a RFA, but has a lot of KR ability.

    Not wild about these names.

    OL:
    Dan Koppen- I think he's brought back God I hope not unless it is on a real team friendly deal.  He cost the 2011 $5MM and we got nothing for it this year.
    Dan Connolly- Versatile player He deserves to be the starter.

    LB:
    Jarrett Johnson- If they're looking to go more 34, he’s a solid, well rounded vet 
    Tracy White- ST stud
    Jonathan Goff- Good size, has local ties as well Person of Interest

    CB:
    Brandon Carr- Good size, a lot of experience in a RAC coached defense He's going to cost us some big $$.  But if we have it to spend, all for it.  If we brought in Carr, Marshall or Finnegan then I think we move McCourty to FS and forget about drafting Barron.  Dowling needs to step up and Sterling Moore could make a big leap next year.  He's already shown ability to make a clutch play in big situations a few times.
    Richard Marshall
    Cortland Finnegan

    S:
    Michael GriffinMichael Huff Would love to get one of these guys if reasonable
    Tom Zbikowski  ST star, if we lose Slater
    Rashad Johnson- RFA
    Haruki Nakamura- Good ST player

    DL:
    Calais Campbell- Likely to be franchised  He's my flavor of the month if he doesn't get tagged.  It would be hard to imagine the Cardinals letting him go but wonder who they would cut to free up space?
    Kendall Langford- If they're looking to go more 34 Hasn't shown much in 4 years and is coming off perhaps his worst year. I guess if you are only looking for inexpensive depth. 
    Andre Carter- Can get after the QB, if they're looking to go more 43.  I think he's one and done.  Had a great year, now hurt and older.  Would rather go after Robert Mathis who is 3 years younger and probably not going to stay in Indy, for this role.
    Mark Anderson- See Carter, Andre KEEP
    Kyle Love- Solid rotational player
    Adam Carriker- Has experience in both schemes, though looks like a better fit in a 43
    KEEP. Can't trust Pryor to stay healthy and Brace is a bust that will be shown the door any day now.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think they'd leave Mayo inside, kick Hightower out.  Mayo, IMO, is too small to play on the outside and would have problems setting the edge.  Hightower on the other hand is a lot bigger, has much better length, is much stronger at the POA and already has experince rushing off the edge.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Jerod Mayo, 6-1, 245, 4.54
    Von Miller 6-3, 246, 4.42

    I think Mayo is okay on the weight but could be a little taller to play OLB although as others point out Dumervill is short and we've had a couple guys out there at 6-2.  But Mayo compares favorable to Bruschi.  Not sure of Bruschi's speed in the day.

    Tedy Bruschi, 6-1, 247

    The thing about Bruschi is he just made big plays, all the time, in the biggest games.  I haven't seen Mayo do that.

    As for Hightower, yes he has the ideal size to play OLB, either OLB position and we know he can play inside.  This is what I like about him as a potential pick.  We can move him all over the front 7, except inside DL.  He can drop back into a coverage a little and if we go through a stretch where Spike and Fletcher are out, like we did this year, we don't have a big drop in production.

    I think Hightower is a must pick for us either at 27 or 31.  I think he's a safe pick, he's a proven leader, and he's a heck of a lot more athletic than Spikes.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I was just looking at Arizona's cap situation.  They are in a rough spot, $118MM.  The cost to tag him would be $10.5MM so they would need to make some serious cuts because they would need about $5MM for draft picks meaning they would need to shave about $9MM to tag Campbell. That’s good news for the rest of the league, or atleast teams that are interest in him... hopefully NE is one of those teams. Campbell will get a lot of attention if allowed to hit the market.  Here's a piece I found with the Redskins discussing what it would take to get Campbell and CB Carr.  We could handle the first 3-4 years of either deal described below.  To be honest, I'd rather have Campbell than Mario Williams.  I love his length and size.  His production has been improving year-over-year.  Williams' sacks have been declining 4 straight years.  Carriker had his best season last year with 34 tackles and 5.5 sacks while Campbell posted 72 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 FF and 10 PD, all career highs!! I too prefer Campbell to Williams. For me, Campbell would be the ultimate F/A prize.  He allows us to switch back to 34 without having to draft Brockers or Still.  We could probably get Robert Mathis (soon to be 31) or James Harrison (worn out his welcome in PIT) on the cheap to be a situational pass rusher complimenting Mark Anderson.  I think Mathis will start for someone, wouldn’t want Harrison anywhere near this team, ha… he’s a P.O.S.If we add Barron and Hightower in round 1, first it would be cool that they were teammates (like Spikes/Hernandez/Cunningham) making their transition easier, but both players fill holes and give us great positional flexibility. Would be awesome. At 47 I think Kevin Zeitler makes a ton of sense.  Gilmore would be redundant as I see him as a FS at the next level more so than a CB.  Besides, we would be very lucky if Waters can play through another long season plus play-offs relatively healthy.  Waters turns 35 next week.  Unless the plan is to kick Cannon inside (which I haven't seen them do), we have just Wendell backing up the interior OL assuming Connolly is back as full-time starter at Center. I agree on Zeitler, would be a great fit, assuming they’re looking to keep Cannon outside… and with the recent durability issues with Vollmer, that may be the case.   Either way, he looks like a versatile kid that could prob play in or out. As for Gilmore, I think he can play CB in either scheme, but could also play S.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    No major disagreements.  James Harrison sure hurt himself with his team last off season with some comments he made.  Prior to that I didn't see him as a problem.  I was thinking of him strictly as a situational pass rusher on the cheap because most teams would stay away and he's up there in years.  Your probably right about Mathis.  He still has enough in the tank to be a starter for a 43 team and will probably demand more money then I'd want to spend for someone who would be situational for us.

    IF we picked up a prized F/A corner that would make me care less about Barron.  With Dowling back, perhaps we move McCourty to FS and perhaps he really excels there.  We have Arrington to play slot and Sterling Moore to develop.  Probably wouldn't need Gilmore either with Chung and McCourty as your starting Safeties.

    This allows us to land Hightower at 27.  I would then be all over Mohamed Sanu at 31.  I would not normally say WR in round 1 because it would be a first for BB but I think Sanu really fits the mold of what we don't have, a tall possession receiver who runs excellent routes and has an A+ character.  The money for Pick 31 would carry a cap hit of just over $1MM if we consider Dowling at Pick 33 was a hair under $1MM and Solder at 17 carried a 2011 cap hit of $1.3MM.  Now we don't need to spend big on a F/A WR.  We bring Branch back on the cheap and reduce his role. 

    I like Welker, Sanu, Branch

    better than

    Welker, Branch, Ocho

    As for Cannon, I see him staying at RT as a back up for now.  This will likely be Matt Light's last year so Solder will probably take over at LT and Vollmer, if healthy stays at RT with Cannon backing up RT.  Since either Vollmer or Solder can play either RT or LT Cannon allows us to have depth at both tackle positions.  I would hope we'd try him a little at RG next year too. 

    But Kevin Zeitler makes a world of sense to me at 48.  He would take over at RG in 2013 and spell Waters who played way too many snaps last year for a guy who is 34.  Zeitler has the perfect size and skill set for what we want out of that position. 

    The key is to get a 34 DE in F/A.  I'm hoping somehow AZ doesn't tag Campbell and we can somehow get him and a top CB.  If we can meet those two needs in free agency we then kill it with these first three picks.

    27.  Hightower
    31.  Sanu
    48.  Zeitler

    Now it is a matter of BPA.  I am probably leaning towards letting BJGE walk.  We would need the cap space just to deal with Welker, Campbell and a top CB.  So at 63 we can another young RB like Doug Martin, Chris Polk or Isaiah Pead.  Then at 95 we could get a WR with wheels.


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Brett Keisel

     - # , 

    no player image available
    Position:
    DE
    Height:
    6-5
    Weight:
    285
    College:
    Brigham Young
    Experience:
    10
    Brett Keisel (PIT)
    Mike DeVito (NYJ)

    I mention these guys as possible 34 DEs who might become cap cuts.  PIT cap trouble have been well documented here these past few days.  They drafted Cam Heyworth last year so could probably do without this 10 year vet.

    DeVito is of course a local native from Cape Cod who played at U Maine.  So he probably grew up a Pats fan.  The Jets are also in cap hell ($128MM) and DeVito is in the final year of his contract and would clear $3.1MM off their 2012 cap.  I'm not totally gun ho for either but the Jets have some tough decisions to make to get under the cap.

    Campbell will get tagged, it's a near certainty.  So, this brings us back to Mario Williams or Adam Carriker as the best F/As likely to be out there.  We should have the money for either of them.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : ...RB: Benny- Solid, yet unspectacular  IDK, I waffle on him.  He was a non factor in the SB. Love the no fumbles. But with 3.7 avg behind this OL and against the easiest schedule in the league last year?  I would not show him the money.  He earned $1.8MM last year and I don't think he's worth a dime more than that.  He gives you nothing as a receiver, has ZERO bust.  I'd like to see us either use the Ridley/Vereen tandum or get someone in here that would upgrade our rushing attack.  Nobody was biting on Brady's play action in the second half of the SB or most of the season unless we were up big.  Peyton Hillis- Only if he comes at a great value, they're not spending big on a RB Jason Snelling- Good veteran depth LeRod Stephens Howling- He's a RFA, but has a lot of KR ability. Not wild about these names. ...
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    it will take s rb with some star power, or has shown flashes of star potential, to make tb give up the ball at critical downs. none of the RBs in your list will yield a credible change in the offensive philosophy. 



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : it will take s rb with some star power, or has shown flashes of star potential, to make tb give up the ball at critical downs. none of the RBs in your list will yield a credible change in the offensive philosophy. 
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    I think you were responding more to Mb.  I was responding his his list of F/A RBs.  I'm not against adding a F/A RB if we lose BJGE but I don't think it necessary to spend more than $2MM on a veteran RB unless he is a true stud.  Steven Jackson I think has a clause in his contract that could let him become a F/A after 2011.  The Rams are one of the teams with cap troubles.  Jackson might have a year or two of 1,000 yard seasons in him and St. Louis might be open to a trade to get some value and cap relief.  I'd consider offering our 4th for him.

    But for me, I'd rather use our available cap to get a stud 34 DE, a rush OLB and perhaps a solid CB and use Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead and draft a guy like Martin, Polk or Pead at 63.  Worst case we have a decent RB by committee.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Found this article on Yahoo Sports from December.  This could be a nice Corey Dillon type story.  We perhaps trade for a runner that has been langashing in the basement of the NFL for years and needs a shot to be with a winner.  The Rams need to free up cap and the Pats need a bruising runner who can really sell the play action.  I like it.  Pick 95 but no higher.  I think we gave up a 2nd for Dillon and won the SB that year.


    Steven Jackson went over the 1,000-yard mark for the seventh season in a row.

    Only six other running backs in the history of the NFL went over 1,000 yards seven years in a row. The other running backs on this list are a "Who's Who" of running backs, and some of the best to ever play in the NFL—Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas, Eric Dickerson and LaDainian Tomlinson.

    So, Jackson has definitely put himself into elite company.

    Of course, in order to achieve a milestone like this, it means he has had to be very good over a long period of time. As we all know, running backs have a shelf life.

    That got me thinking, "How much does Jackson have left in the tank?"

    What was the average season for these same runners after they ran for 1,000 yards seven years in a row? How much did they have left after taking that pounding for seven straight seasons?

    These are the averages based on a three-season average after their seventh 1,000-yard season:

    NameCarriesYardsYPCTD
    Emmit Smith30312684.29
    Barry Sanders32816995.29
    Curtis Martin31813664.37
    Thurman Thomas1766863.94
    Eric Dickerson1736473.73
    LaDanian Tomlinson2459183.810

    What can we expect from Steven Jackson over the next 2-3 seasons?

    He is a beast. He will continue to rack up 1,000 yard seasons. No man can take that kind of beating. He won't hit 1,000 yards again. The Rams should trade Jackson while they can. Even if he is a part time back, Jackson would be a great role model for a younger RB. Submit Vote vote to see results

      What can we expect from Steven Jackson over the next 2-3 seasons?

    • He is a beast. He will continue to rack up 1,000 yard seasons.

      63.0%
    • No man can take that kind of beating. He won't hit 1,000 yards again.

      2.7%
    • The Rams should trade Jackson while they can.

      17.9%
    • Even if he is a part time back, Jackson would be a great role model for a younger RB.

      16.3%
    • Total votes: 184

    Looking at the numbers, half of the guys on this list were not the same player after so many years of poundings. Of every player on this list—ironically, Jackson most resembles Eric Dickerson, one of the all-time greats for the Rams' organization.

    Jackson (6'3", 229 pounds) and Dickerson (6'3", 230 pounds) were big backs, and they could dish out punishment as well as they could take it. Both backs had a good "yards per carry" average throughout their first eight seasons in the league.

    It was that eighth season, however, that was the beginning of the end for Dickerson.

    Injuries and contract disputes derailed his career, and he never ran for over 1,000 yards again. Honestly, after that seventh 1,000 yard season, Dickerson could have probably ran for over 1,000 yards for another year or two if not for the disputes with Colts' management.

    So what does all this mean for Steven Jackson?

    He could run this hard for another two or three years, or he could be running on fumes already. Jackson has had to carry some sorry teams for years now. I think we'll see one more good season, maybe two, out of Jackson before he begins to seriously decline.

    So the Rams need to starting thinking about "life after Steven Jackson." They need to add a young understudy—someone who can take the reins from Jackson like he did from Marshall Faulk.

    Or, they need to consider trading Jackson now to a team that needs a runner of his caliber to take their team to that next level.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think you were responding more to Mb.  I was responding his his list of F/A RBs.  I'm not against adding a F/A RB if we lose BJGE but I don't think it necessary to spend more than $2MM on a veteran RB unless he is a true stud.  Steven Jackson I think has a clause in his contract that could let him become a F/A after 2011.  The Rams are one of the teams with cap troubles.  Jackson might have a year or two of 1,000 yard seasons in him and St. Louis might be open to a trade to get some value and cap relief.  I'd consider offering our 4th for him. But for me, I'd rather use our available cap to get a stud 34 DE, a rush OLB and perhaps a solid CB and use Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead and draft a guy like Martin, Polk or Pead at 63.  Worst case we have a decent RB by committee.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    you're right. i was reacting to mb.

    also i agree on the 34 de. on that matter. could taking NT and letting vw play DE be an alternative approach? vw lined up as DE on quite a few snaps in the playoffs, to take advantage of some match ups. in the finals he had to go back to NT in the second half. but what if they found a reliable NT?

    i have not seen bal a lot, but it seems they use ngata as DE more than NT. it would be similar to that. 





     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Solid list Mike. Below are players that interest me (Including a lot of their own): WR: Wes Welker- Likely to be franchised Vincent Jackson- Makes a ton of sense YES, but hoping we don't have to use the tag and get a cap friendly 3-4 year deal that is team friendly. Brandon Lloyd- Has the obvious link and a skill set that matches their O YES, in the discussion Mario Manningham- Has the ideal skill set for NE’s O YES, in the discussion Deion Branch- Depth player if cheap like less than $1.8MM Eddie Royal- Another good skill set fit. I thought of Royal because he is no longer a focus in Denver with the emergence of Decker and Thomas but do we need another slot receiver with Welker and Edelman?  Matt Slater- ST stud Yes, but could he go? We saw that with Tate, Aiken and Washington .  BB won't over pay for a ST gunner, he'll find a new one. DeSean Jackson - Let's at least discuss it.  I know he's a prima dona and has clearly worn out his welcome in Philly.  The guy can get behind a defense and he is an electric return man.  He is probably not a good locker room fit but we've seen BB get these types of personalities and hold them together, for awhile at least. Marquis Colston - He caught 80 passes for 1,143 yards and 8 touchdowns last year and was sensational in the playoff loss to the 49ers in which he caught 9 passes for 136 yards and a touchdown.  He is a big time clutch receiver and we could've used one of them last Sunday. RB: Benny- Solid, yet unspectacular  IDK, I waffle on him.  He was a non factor in the SB. Love the no fumbles. But with 3.7 avg behind this OL and against the easiest schedule in the league last year?  I would not show him the money.  He earned $1.8MM last year and I don't think he's worth a dime more than that.  He gives you nothing as a receiver, has ZERO bust.  I'd like to see us either use the Ridley/Vereen tandum or get someone in here that would upgrade our rushing attack.  Nobody was biting on Brady's play action in the second half of the SB or most of the season unless we were up big.  Peyton Hillis- Only if he comes at a great value, they're not spending big on a RB Jason Snelling- Good veteran depth LeRod Stephens Howling- He's a RFA, but has a lot of KR ability. Not wild about these names. OL: Dan Koppen- I think he's brought back God I hope not unless it is on a real team friendly deal.  He cost the 2011 $5MM and we got nothing for it this year. Dan Connolly- Versatile player  He deserves to be the starter. LB: Jarrett Johnson- If they're looking to go more 34, he’s a solid, well rounded vet   Tracy White- ST stud Jonathan Goff- Good size, has local ties as well Person of Interest CB: Brandon Carr- Good size, a lot of experience in a RAC coached defense He's going to cost us some big $$.  But if we have it to spend, all for it.  If we brought in Carr, Marshall or Finnegan then I think we move McCourty to FS and forget about drafting Barron.  Dowling needs to step up and Sterling Moore could make a big leap next year.  He's already shown ability to make a clutch play in big situations a few times. Richard Marshall Cortland Finnegan S: Michael Griffin Michael Huff Would love to get one of these guys if reasonable Tom Zbikowski  ST star, if we lose Slater Rashad Johnson- RFA Haruki Nakamura- Good ST player DL: Calais Campbell- Likely to be franchised  He's my flavor of the month if he doesn't get tagged.  It would be hard to imagine the Cardinals letting him go but wonder who they would cut to free up space? Kendall Langford- If they're looking to go more 34 Hasn't shown much in 4 years and is coming off perhaps his worst year. I guess if you are only looking for inexpensive depth.  Andre Carter- Can get after the QB, if they're looking to go more 43.  I think he's one and done.  Had a great year, now hurt and older.  Would rather go after Robert Mathis who is 3 years younger and probably not going to stay in Indy, for this role. Mark Anderson- See Carter, Andre KEEP Kyle Love- Solid rotational player Adam Carriker- Has experience in both schemes, though looks like a better fit in a 43 KEEP. Can't trust Pryor to stay healthy and Brace is a bust that will be shown the door any day now.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Always thought Eddie Royal would be a good 3rd WR here, very fast, good hands,never had a great QB
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Guys,

    The talk is starting about some big name players who might become cap cut casualties.  I knew it was coming and here we are with the latest.

    Calvin Johnson.  Has a base of $14MM and since he hit all of his escalators, will cost the Lions more than $21MM in cap in 2012.  The Lions are already at the likely cap number of $122MM.  Talks about extending Johnson out have begun.  If he's at all unhappy there he could refuse and we could see the Lions forced to cut him.  I seriously doubt that would happen but if it did, I can't even fathom Mega Tron matched up with Brady.  Another interesting note, the Lions are the oldest team in the NFL and while they are surging, it will be short lived if they don't address their age.  Johnson at 26, obviously isn't an issue.

    Dwight Freeney.  I've been talking about Robert Mathis being available but I didn't realize Freeney is hitting the Colts cap harder than Manning.  He's carrying a $14MM base and a cap charge of over $19MM.  He is in the last year of his contract.  I think the Colt have no choice but to cut Freeney unless they cut Manning first.  They may end up cutting both.  Freeney reportedly has no interest in trying out as a 34 LB so I expect he will go to a 43 team if in fact he leaves Indy.

    The Steelers, the league's second oldest team, have already begun making move restructuring Timmons, Ike Taylor and Woodley saving $15MM of the $25MM that they are over the cap.  They are now talking to Troy Polamalu and Big Ben about re-doing their deals.  Harrison and Hines Ward appear on their way out although Ward just today offered to restructure his deal so he can retire a Steeler.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Always thought Eddie Royal would be a good 3rd WR here, very fast, good hands,never had a great QB
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]
    Yes, but we already have two slot receivers and I think that is Eddie Royal's strength not that he can't get down the field, he can.  I'm just not sure he is the missing ingredient.  Now adding Mega Tron would sure be fun to watch.  I can't even allow myself to imagine the possibilities.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : you're right. i was reacting to mb. also i agree on the 34 de. on that matter. could taking NT and letting vw play DE be an alternative approach? vw lined up as DEon quite a few snaps in the playoffs, to take advantage of some match ups. in the finals he had to go back to NT in the second half. but what if they found a reliable NT? i have not seen bal a lot, but it seems they use ngata as DE more than NT. it would be similar to that. 
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    That is an interesting point and one I was also thinking about this morning while walking the dogs (see, I have a life outside of football).  We certainly could be looking at NTs and also putting Poe into play if Big Vince wants to play outside and get more opportunities to return INTs.  But I don't think we like VW's length out there but it would give us a pretty formidable run stopping line.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think you were responding more to Mb.  I was responding his his list of F/A RBs.  I'm not against adding a F/A RB if we lose BJGE but I don't think it necessary to spend more than $2MM on a veteran RB unless he is a true stud.  Steven Jackson I think has a clause in his contract that could let him become a F/A after 2011.  The Rams are one of the teams with cap troubles.  Jackson might have a year or two of 1,000 yard seasons in him and St. Louis might be open to a trade to get some value and cap relief.  I'd consider offering our 4th for him. But for me, I'd rather use our available cap to get a stud 34 DE, a rush OLB and perhaps a solid CB and use Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead and draft a guy like Martin, Polk or Pead at 63.  Worst case we have a decent RB by committee.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    i highly doubt that the rams would give up jackson for a 4th, i would do it for sure if they would, probably would give up a lot more for him, but it is not going to happen.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : it will take s rb with some star power, or has shown flashes of star potential, to make tb give up the ball at critical downs. none of the RBs in your list will yield a credible change in the offensive philosophy. 
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Its too early to count out Ridley/Vereen as potential impact players in their offense.

    I'd be shocked to see them throw huge dollars at a premium back.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Its too early to count out Ridley/Vereen as potential impact players in their offense. I'd be shocked to see them throw huge dollars at a premium back.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Agreed.  I think both players have HUGE potential.  We already saw some of that with Ridley; and Vereen flashed the couple of times he had a chance.  Also agree we won't likely dump a lot of money on a veteran back.  However, we have shown a willingness to go $3MM on Fred Taylor and I think they paid decent money to Dillon.  I think Jackson has enough tread on his tires to get a 3 year deal for decent, not outrageous money.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think they'd leave Mayo inside, kick Hightower out.  Mayo, IMO, is too small to play on the outside and would have problems setting the edge.  Hightower on the other hand is a lot bigger, has much better length, is much stronger at the POA and already has experince rushing off the edge.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    This is exactly correct. IF the idea and what I assume is implied by others posts is a move to use more 3-4 as they did in the first two playoff games than I too would never see them moving Mayo outside. Hightower has the measures they always look for at OLB.

    In the Huddle reports opinion its even Hightowers natural or better position for him.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]RE: FA Below are players that interest me (Including a lot of their own): WR: Wes Welker- Likely to be franchised Vincent Jackson- Makes a ton of sense Brandon Lloyd- Has the obvious link and a skill set that matches their O Mario Manningham- Has the ideal skill set for NE’s O Deion Branch- Depth player Eddie Royal- Another good skill set fit. Matt Slater- ST stud RB: Benny- Solid, yet unspectacular Peyton Hillis- Only if he comes at a great value, they're not spending big on a RB Jason Snelling- Good veteran depth LeRod Stephens Howling- He's a RFA, but has a lot of KR ability. OL: Dan Koppen- I think he's brought back Dan Connolly- Versatile player LB: Jarrett Johnson- If they're looking to go more 34, he’s a solid, well rounded vet   Tracy White- ST stud Jonathan Goff- Good size, has local ties as well CB: Brandon Carr- Good size, a lot of experience in a RAC coached defense Richard Marshall Cortland Finnegan S: Michael Griffin Michael Huff Tom Zbikowski Rashad Johnson- RFA Haruki Nakamura- Good ST player DL: Calais Campbell- Likely to be franchised Kendall Langford- If they're looking to go more 34 Andre Carter- Can get after the QB, if they're looking to go more 43 Mark Anderson- See Carter, Andre Kyle Love- Solid rotational player Adam Carriker- Has experience in both schemes, though looks like a better fit in a 43
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Why no Colston?

    He's a year younger than Vincent Jackson.

    Even with one yr less service he's only played in 6 fewer games cause Jackson has been injured more.

    Colston has 177 MORE receptions than Jackson, 1486 MORE yards than Jackson, 11 More TD's than Jackson, and 90 MORE 1st downs than Jackson. All with one year less playing time.

    Plus 3 of Colstons longest receptions in a season are longer than Jacksons longest ever.

    Jackson has never caught more than 68 balls in a season and only reached 60 one other time. Colston in Contrast has only had less than 70 receptions once. (topped 80 twice and 2 shy of 100 once)

    Jackson has only reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 3 of his 7 seasons. Colston has reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 5 or his 6 seasons.

    In Jacksons Favor he has a higher ypc avg, 1 inch taller, and 4 fewer fumbles.

    Combine 40's

    Colston 4.5
    Jackson 4.46

    Not that I would have a problem with either, myself, but I am curious why you don't like Colston?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines

    Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Why no Colston? He's a year younger than Vincent Jackson. Even with one yr less service he's only played in 6 fewer games cause Jackson has been injured more. Colston has 177 MORE receptions than Jackson, 1486 MORE yards than Jackson, 11 More TD's than Jackson, and 90 MORE 1st downs than Jackson. All with one year less playing time. Plus 3 of Colstons longest receptions in a season are longer than Jacksons longest ever. Jackson has never caught more than 68 balls in a season and only reached 60 one other time. Colston in Contrast has only had less than 70 receptions once. (topped 80 twice and 2 shy of 100 once) Jackson has only reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 3 of his 7 seasons. Colston has reached 1000 yards or more receiving in 5 or his 6 seasons. In Jacksons Favor he has a higher ypc avg, 1 inch taller, and 4 fewer fumbles. Combine 40's Colston 4.5 Jackson 4.46 Not that I would have a problem with either, myself, but I am curious why you don't like Colston?
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    I'd have no problem with Colston, same with Dwayne Bowe.  As for the other higher rated WR's, I'd want no part of Steve Johnson... kid is a mental disaster.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : This is exactly correct. IF the idea and what I assume is implied by others posts is a move to use more 3-4 as they did in the first two playoff games than I too would never see them moving Mayo outside. Hightower has the measures they always look for at OLB. In the Huddle reports opinion its even Hightowers natural or better position for him.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Agree. Hightower has the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or inside at LB as well. IF we did play more 3-4, adding Hightwoer to Nink/Spikes/Mayo makes a nice group. I still think we are light in depth on the outside and inside. Could you see more than 1 LB drafted? OR a FA LB or two brought in?

    As much as I like the idea of us playing more 3-4, I think the fron 7 really needs an injection of talent. Assuming Warren & Ellis are gone or at best depth, who starts along the line? Deaderick, VW? What about the other end? Is Deaderick starting material?

    Going back to my post earlier, this is why I think it important to do 1/2 of 3 possible things. We really need to improve the front 3 and front 7 to become formidable.
    1. Trade up for Brockers or Still (one DE position filled)
    2. Sign Carriker or Campbell at the other DE position
    3. OR Wait until later in the draft and go get Cox, Randall or someone like that.

    Ideally, I think we need 2 quality DEs + 1 starting OLB, and 1 quality OLB/ILB for depth. That's a hefty order unless you feel Deaderick is the guy.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.
    Posted by sportslover21[/QUOTE]
    Reiss hits on some of this too in his piece this morning...

    Quick-hit thoughts around the NFL and with the Patriots:

    1. When it comes to the Patriots' plans this offseason, the initial thought from here is that there will be a two-pronged approach at receiver and safety – one veteran in free agency, one prospect in the draft. Those are two areas I anticipate the club pursuing aggressively. Looks like a lot of potential options in free agency.

    2. I don’t buy into the line of thinking that the Patriots need to alter their approach and “go for it” because Tom Brady will be 35 in August and the window of opportunity is closing. They were a bouncing football away from winning the Super Bowl this year (two forced fumbles both recovered by the Giants), and with a good draft and some help in free agency, they should be right back in the hunt again. It takes some good fortune, too.

    3. Before the final preseason game of 2011, with the Giants visiting the Patriots, I remember how the Giants were taking heat in New York for not doing enough in the offseason to improve their team. The Jets had generated much more buzz. But general manager Jerry Reese didn’t flinch, which is a good reminder that those who stick with their plan and scout and draft well will usually outlast those looking for splashy headlines.

    4. First-year Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano is having a tough time in his search for a defensive coordinator, and while it might not be popular among Patriots followers based on the history with the organization, here is a suggestion: Eric Mangini. I think Mangini knows personnel, is a good Xs and Os coach, and his prior experience as an NFL head coach would seemingly be a benefit to an NFL first-timer like Schiano.

    5. With Texans outside linebacker/defensive end Mario Williams set to become a free agent, it reminds me of Julius Peppers two years ago. The Patriots inquired about Peppers at that time. Makes sense to think they’d at least dip their toe into the Williams waters.

    6. Impressive that even though the Texans might lose Williams, they’re still viewed as one of the favorites in the AFC next season thanks to some solid drafting (particularly on defense) and with Wade Phillips returning for his second season as defensive coordinator. For those hoping the Patriots can adopt a new identity on defense, the Texans are a good example of how quickly it can be done.

    7. The Steelers looked old to me in their wild-card round playoff loss to the Broncos. I also thought the Ravens were trending older. It’s tough to remain competitive while staying young, as the Patriots can attest. Patriots team president Jonathan Kraft alluded to that during his Friday ESPNBoston Radio interview, noting that only seven players remained from the Super Bowl XLII roster and that it could be viewed as a good sign that the team was back in the Super Bowl four years later after such roster turnover.

    8. Defensive end Mark Anderson was one of the Patriots’ best free-agent signings this year. In Chicago, where things fizzled out for Anderson in 2010, they’re still trying to fill his role.

    9. Easy to say when it's not your money, but I think the Jets are going to regret not cutting ties with receiver Santonio Holmes. They would have had to eat a $7.75 million guarantee by cutting him. Instead, they are now guaranteeing him $15.25 million over the next two seasons.

    10. Felt like there was too much instability in the Patriots secondary in 2011 for the unit to be successful, and in retrospect, the team’s handling of the safety spot seems fair to scrutinize. In terms of decisions I’d imagine Bill Belichick would like to have back, I’d put releasing James Sanders alongside the acquisitions of Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ochocinco at the top of the list. Amazing to think that after all the headlines Haynesworth and Ochocinco generated in late July/early August, they were essentially non-factors.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17204171/manning-saga-questions-about-patriots-headline-offseason-storylines Saw this article, not sure how much truth there is to it, but if true, some interesting thoughts about what BB may do this offseason.
    Posted by sportslover21[/QUOTE]

    I would love to see Manningham on the roster next season; he certainly provides that perimeter speed/big play ability that they currently don't have.  Interestingly enough though, BB was 2nd (to only Aaron Rodgers) in the NFL last season in YPA, so they're moving the ball down the field.

    If they want to change the dynamic of their DL, I think they have (3) options.

    *1.  Do what you have to do to land Michael Brockers.
    2.  Break the bank for Calais Campbell.
    3.  Break the bank for Mario Williams.

    In a fantasy world, completing 1 AND 3 would completely transform their front 7.

    * The addition of the rookie pay scale may allow BB to get more aggressive as the cost risk has been greatly reduced.  Devon Still is also in the discussion, though questions around his desire/motivation could scare them off.  I also like Fletcher Cox and while he appears to be more athletic and have a better motor than Still, adding another 5-10 pounds wouldn't hurt.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Agree. Hightower has the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or inside at LB as well. IF we did play more 3-4, adding Hightwoer to Nink/Spikes/Mayo makes a nice group. I still think we are light in depth on the outside and inside. Could you see more than 1 LB drafted? OR a FA LB or two brought in? As much as I like the idea of us playing more 3-4, I think the fron 7 really needs an injection of talent. Assuming Warren & Ellis are gone or at best depth, who starts along the line? Deaderick, VW? What about the other end? Is Deaderick starting material? Going back to my post earlier, this is why I think it important to do 1/2 of 3 possible things. We really need to improve the front 3 and front 7 to become formidable. 1. Trade up for Brockers or Still (one DE position filled) 2. Sign Carriker or Campbell at the other DE position 3. OR Wait until later in the draft and go get Cox, Randall or someone like that. Ideally, I think we need 2 quality DEs + 1 starting OLB, and 1 quality OLB/ILB for depth. That's a hefty order unless you feel Deaderick is the guy.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    I'm sure BB had a chance to pick Saban's mind re Hightower and Barron.  If Hightower is more natural outside it's a perfect match and I really hope he is one of our picks.

    As for 34 DE, I am convinced we are switching back.  We only switched to the 43 because we got Haynesworth and Ty Warren wasn't going to make it back plus we were thin at OLB with the injury and subsequent release of Banta-Cain.  Remember also that we had almost no off season.  The roster basically came together in 8 days in late July/early Aug.  BB is a 34 coach, we are switching back.

    As for Deaderick, absolutely he can play 34 DE.  He was a guy I scouted and discussed a lot prior to the draft as a potential late round gem.  He is now just starting to "get it."  Deaderick's measureables at the Combine are not that much different that Ndamukong Suh.

    Suh 6-4, 307, 5.03.

    Deaderick, 6-4, 314, 5.08.

    Terrance Cody received much of the credit for Alabama's dominant defensive line play, but Deaderick's performance (36 tackles, 5.5 tackles for loss, four sacks) was a major factor in Alabama's re-emergence as a national title contender in 2008. As such, he was expected to be a major contributor in 2009.

    Before the start of the season, Deaderick was shot by a would-be car thief on August 31, 2009. The injury and improved play of backup Marcell Dareus limited Deaderick early in the season, contributing to less than scintillating statistics throughout the Tide's ride to the BCS National Championship.

    Deaderick produced 23 tackles, 4.5 tackles for loss and one sack while playing in 14 games (including 10 starts) as a senior. His career totals of 83 tackles, 13 tackles for loss and seven sacks over 31 starts is less than some defensive linemen posted last season alone.

    Despite only marginal production, scouts are intrigued by Deaderick's size and versatility. The classic two-gap defender projects as a fit as a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 defensive end. If he can convince teams his off-field concerns are past him, his experience and ability to play multiple positions could result in a mid-round selection.


    As we know we got him in the 7th round.  I expect to see big things from Deaderick next year.  As for who will play the other 34 DE.  That is the big question.  I prefer going after a proven veteran.  But I don't see ARI letting Campbell go and I also don't think the Skins will let Carriker go without a fight.  This could leave Mario Williams and perhaps Mike DeVito as options.  I worry that the price for Mario could be too high but I do think we talk to him.  I don't see us making a bold move up in the draft to get Still or Brockers.  BB hasn't made a first round bold move up in many years.  The biggest move up he ever made was 10 years ago to get Daniel Graham.  He gave up 32, 96 and 234 to move up to 21.  This actually worked out pretty good on the points chart.  If we could do that again with 31, 95 and our 4th to get into the teens that would be sweet but I suspect both Brockers and Still will be long gone by 15. 

    Cox should be available in the back of the first round if BB wants a young project.  Regardless, who ever we get in the draft would take some time to develop so we might see a little VW out there if Brace can play nose.

    The interesting thing about Mike Reiss' piece is the idea that BB will cover his bases by likely drafting and brining in a F/A S and WR.  When Gronk went down, it really hurt us not being able to stretch the field allowing the Giants to focus on stopping our underneath stuff.  We need a well rounded offense and actually have someone besides Slater, who can actually catch the ball, go long.  Much as we saw BB double down on WRs after the Caldwell 2006 debacle, I think we will see him convincingly address the WR position again this year and for sure address the S position because the Brown/Bartlett experiment was over by Week 2.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Reiss hits on some of this too in his piece this morning... By Mike Reiss Quick-hit thoughts around the NFL and with the Patriots: 1. When it comes to the Patriots' plans this offseason, the initial thought from here is that there will be a two-pronged approach at receiver and safety – one veteran in free agency, one prospect in the draft. Those are two areas I anticipate the club pursuing aggressively. Looks like a lot of potential options in free agency. 2. I don’t buy into the line of thinking that the Patriots need to alter their approach and “go for it” because Tom Brady will be 35 in August and the window of opportunity is closing. They were a bouncing football away from winning the Super Bowl this year (two forced fumbles both recovered by the Giants), and with a good draft and some help in free agency, they should be right back in the hunt again. It takes some good fortune, too. 3. Before the final preseason game of 2011, with the Giants visiting the Patriots, I remember how the Giants were taking heat in New York for not doing enough in the offseason to improve their team. The Jets had generated much more buzz. But general manager Jerry Reese didn’t flinch, which is a good reminder that those who stick with their plan and scout and draft well will usually outlast those looking for splashy headlines. 4. First-year Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano is having a tough time in his search for a defensive coordinator, and while it might not be popular among Patriots followers based on the history with the organization, here is a suggestion: Eric Mangini . I think Mangini knows personnel, is a good Xs and Os coach, and his prior experience as an NFL head coach would seemingly be a benefit to an NFL first-timer like Schiano. 5. With Texans outside linebacker/defensive end Mario Williams set to become a free agent, it reminds me of Julius Peppers two years ago. The Patriots inquired about Peppers at that time. Makes sense to think they’d at least dip their toe into the Williams waters. 6. Impressive that even though the Texans might lose Williams, they’re still viewed as one of the favorites in the AFC next season thanks to some solid drafting (particularly on defense) and with Wade Phillips returning for his second season as defensive coordinator. For those hoping the Patriots can adopt a new identity on defense, the Texans are a good example of how quickly it can be done. 7. The Steelers looked old to me in their wild-card round playoff loss to the Broncos. I also thought the Ravens were trending older. It’s tough to remain competitive while staying young, as the Patriots can attest. Patriots team president Jonathan Kraft alluded to that during his Friday ESPNBoston Radio interview, noting that only seven players remained from the Super Bowl XLII roster and that it could be viewed as a good sign that the team was back in the Super Bowl four years later after such roster turnover. 8. Defensive end Mark Anderson was one of the Patriots’ best free-agent signings this year. In Chicago, where things fizzled out for Anderson in 2010, they’re still trying to fill his role . 9. Easy to say when it's not your money, but I think the Jets are going to regret not cutting ties with receiver Santonio Holmes . They would have had to eat a $7.75 million guarantee by cutting him. Instead, they are now guaranteeing him $15.25 million over the next two seasons . 10. Felt like there was too much instability in the Patriots secondary in 2011 for the unit to be successful, and in retrospect, the team’s handling of the safety spot seems fair to scrutinize. In terms of decisions I’d imagine Bill Belichick would like to have back, I’d put releasing James Sanders alongside the acquisitions of Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ochocinco at the top of the list. Amazing to think that after all the headlines Haynesworth and Ochocinco generated in late July/early August, they were essentially non-factors.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    He has to be reading this thread, ha.
     
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