***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    [QUOTE]That was the idea, got sick of the snow and women with the dreaded Maine hip disease.  Don't see that as much out here:).
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
    Lol! You mean spud butt?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    So I was researching potential 34 OLB's and came across a kid (Brett Roy 6-3 272 Nevada) who had a very productive senior season (9 sacks, 17.5 TFL), though the word is he is playing out of position as a DT.

    Below are a couple of reports from Wes Bunting, the scouting analyst from The National Football Post.  I look forward to seeing him at the Combine (assuming he's invited) and am hoping to find some tape on him to form my own opinion, he sounds intriguing though:


    Nevada DL Brett Roy is the definition of a tweener. He’s 6-3, 273-pounds, possesses good athleticism for his size and some natural power on contact. Honestly, he reminds me a little bit of former Miami DL Allen Bailey last year, whereas he has the ability to add some weight and maybe play a little five-technique. But, is also athletic/rangy enough to stand-up and rush off the edge or play inside as a jack backer. Either way he’s a natural football player who should be able to make an NFL roster and find a way to contribute.

    OLB Brett Roy: Nevada (6-3, 272)
    It’s rarely pretty with him. However, he’s a strong kid who possesses good power into contact, knows how to use his hands to fend off blocks and has a motor that runs non-stop. Plus, he’s a sneaky athlete who could end up playing just about any linebacker spot in a 34 front.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]So I was researching potential 34 OLB's and came across a kid ( Brett Roy 6-3 272 Nevada ) who had a very productive senior season (9 sacks, 17.5 TFL), though the word is he is playing out of position as a DT. Below are a couple of reports from Wes Bunting, the scouting analyst from The National Football Post.  I look forward to seeing him at the Combine (assuming he's invited) and am hoping to find some tape on him to form my own opinion, he sounds intriguing though: Nevada DL Brett Roy i s the definition of a tweener. He’s 6-3, 273-pounds, possesses good athleticism for his size and some natural power on contact. Honestly, he reminds me a little bit of former Miami DL Allen Bailey last year, whereas he has the ability to add some weight and maybe play a little five-technique. But, is also athletic/rangy enough to stand-up and rush off the edge or play inside as a jack backer. Either way he’s a natural football player who should be able to make an NFL roster and find a way to contribute. OLB Brett Roy: Nevada (6-3, 272) It’s rarely pretty with him. However, he’s a strong kid who possesses good power into contact, knows how to use his hands to fend off blocks and has a motor that runs non-stop. Plus, he’s a sneaky athlete who could end up playing just about any linebacker spot in a 34 front.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Don't know if Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 Tennessee has been talked about but this kid has some impressive numbers considering he played mostly DT this season.  in 2010 as a DE 48 tackels 5 sacks four pass breakups and 11 TFL.  He moved this season to DT, versitile big prospect (here it comes, McGinest comparison lol).

    He's projected as 4th rnd prospect, if he does well in LB drills this could be a kid BB targets 3rd/4th. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : That was the idea, got sick of the snow and women with the dreaded Maine hip disease.  Don't see that as much out here:).
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure that view is much better in south cal
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Some stats for thought based on FA WR's we've talked about. (using NFL Advanced Stats)

    If Lloyd didn't know the system and so many others had past difficulty with it I would not go near him.


    Brandon LLoyd
    2011 43%
    2010 50%
    Prior he was virtually non existent
    2 yr avg. 46.5% catch rate per target

    Wes Welker
    2011 72%
    2010 70%
    2009 76%
    2008 72%
    4 yr avg. 72.5% catch rate per target

    Marques Colston
    2011 76%
    2010 63%
    2009 66%
    2008 51%
    4 yr avg. 64% catch rate per target
    3 yr avg. 68.3% catch rate per target

    Reggie Wayne
    2011 57%
    2010 63%
    2009 66%
    2008 58%
    4 yr avg. 61% catch rate per target
    With Manning 62.3%

    Deion Branch
    2011 57%
    2010 63%
    2009 57%
    2008 48%
    4 yr avg. 56.25% catch rate per target
    3 yr avg. 59% catch rate per target

    Mario Manningham
    2011 52%
    2010 65%
    2009 58%
    3 yr avg. 58.3% catch rate per target

    Mike Wallace
    2011 60%
    2010 58%
    2009 54%
    3 yr avg. 57.3% catch rate per target

    Vincent Jackson
    2011 52%
    2010 not qualified
    2009 65%
    2008 53%
    3 yr avg. 56.6% catch rate per target

    Dwayne Bowe
    2011 57%
    2010 54%
    2009 54%
    2008 53%
    4 yr avg. 54.5% catch rate per target
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'm sure that view is much better in south cal
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    It's unbelievable!!  And I'm 300 miles south of Silicon Valley but you couldn't tell from the view, lol.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Lol! You mean spud butt?
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]
    You've been up to Maine I'm guessing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]So I was researching potential 34 OLB's and came across a kid ( Brett Roy 6-3 272 Nevada ) who had a very productive senior season (9 sacks, 17.5 TFL), though the word is he is playing out of position as a DT. Below are a couple of reports from Wes Bunting, the scouting analyst from The National Football Post.  I look forward to seeing him at the Combine (assuming he's invited) and am hoping to find some tape on him to form my own opinion, he sounds intriguing though: Nevada DL Brett Roy i s the definition of a tweener. He’s 6-3, 273-pounds, possesses good athleticism for his size and some natural power on contact. Honestly, he reminds me a little bit of former Miami DL Allen Bailey last year, whereas he has the ability to add some weight and maybe play a little five-technique. But, is also athletic/rangy enough to stand-up and rush off the edge or play inside as a jack backer. Either way he’s a natural football player who should be able to make an NFL roster and find a way to contribute. OLB Brett Roy: Nevada (6-3, 272) It’s rarely pretty with him. However, he’s a strong kid who possesses good power into contact, knows how to use his hands to fend off blocks and has a motor that runs non-stop. Plus, he’s a sneaky athlete who could end up playing just about any linebacker spot in a 34 front.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round. 

    What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know?

    Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Some stats for thought based on FA WR's we've talked about. If Lloyd didn't know the system and so many others had past difficulty with it I would not go near him. Brandon LLoyd 2011 43% 2010 50% Prior he was virtually non existent 2 yr avg. 46.5% catch rate per target Wes Welker 2011 72% 2010 70% 2009 76% 2008 72% 4 yr avg. 72.5% catch rate per target Marques Colston 2011 76% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 51% 4 yr avg. 64% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 68.3% catch rate per target Reggie Wayne 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 58% 4 yr avg. 61% catch rate per target With Manning 62.3% Deion Branch 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 57% 2008 48% 4 yr avg. 56.25% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 59% catch rate per target Mario Manningham 2011 52% 2010 65% 2009 58% 3 yr avg. 58.3% catch rate per target Mike Wallace 2011 60% 2010 58% 2009 54% 3 yr avg. 57.3% catch rate per target Vincent Jackson 2011 52% 2010 not qualified 2009 65% 2008 53% 3 yr avg. 56.6% catch rate per target Dwayne Bowe 2011 57% 2010 54% 2009 54% 2008 53% 4 yr avg. 54.5% catch rate per target
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    WOW.  Those are quite revealing numbers.  It certainly gives pause at first glance to Lloyd and explains why Welker is always up there in receptions, except when it mattered most.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sydpat. Show sydpat's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Have been following all the draft gurus with interest. Probably the maddest Australian Pats supporters and were lucky to see the Dallas and Jets games last October when on holidays.

    Just saw Rotoworld's 10 most overrated players in the draft. May be interested to see Michael Brockers (no 2), Vontaze Burfict, Whitney Mercilus and Jerel Worthy all players that have had some strong mention on this thread.

    You may be also interested in their 10 most underrated players............

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]You've been up to Maine I'm guessing.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
    All my life minus two winters in Georgia planting trees and one summer in Acton, Mass.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Some stats for thought based on FA WR's we've talked about. If Lloyd didn't know the system and so many others had past difficulty with it I would not go near him. Brandon LLoyd 2011 43% 2010 50% Prior he was virtually non existent 2 yr avg. 46.5% catch rate per target Wes Welker 2011 72% 2010 70% 2009 76% 2008 72% 4 yr avg. 72.5% catch rate per target Marques Colston 2011 76% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 51% 4 yr avg. 64% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 68.3% catch rate per target Reggie Wayne 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 58% 4 yr avg. 61% catch rate per target With Manning 62.3% Deion Branch 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 57% 2008 48% 4 yr avg. 56.25% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 59% catch rate per target Mario Manningham 2011 52% 2010 65% 2009 58% 3 yr avg. 58.3% catch rate per target Mike Wallace 2011 60% 2010 58% 2009 54% 3 yr avg. 57.3% catch rate per target Vincent Jackson 2011 52% 2010 not qualified 2009 65% 2008 53% 3 yr avg. 56.6% catch rate per target Dwayne Bowe 2011 57% 2010 54% 2009 54% 2008 53% 4 yr avg. 54.5% catch rate per target
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Low you got Meachem's?  That's who I would like for them to target along with Lloyd and keep Welker.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Some stats for thought based on FA WR's we've talked about. If Lloyd didn't know the system and so many others had past difficulty with it I would not go near him. Brandon LLoyd 2011 43% 2010 50% Prior he was virtually non existent 2 yr avg. 46.5% catch rate per target Wes Welker 2011 72% 2010 70% 2009 76% 2008 72% 4 yr avg. 72.5% catch rate per target Marques Colston 2011 76% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 51% 4 yr avg. 64% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 68.3% catch rate per target Reggie Wayne 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 58% 4 yr avg. 61% catch rate per target With Manning 62.3% Deion Branch 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 57% 2008 48% 4 yr avg. 56.25% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 59% catch rate per target Mario Manningham 2011 52% 2010 65% 2009 58% 3 yr avg. 58.3% catch rate per target Mike Wallace 2011 60% 2010 58% 2009 54% 3 yr avg. 57.3% catch rate per target Vincent Jackson 2011 52% 2010 not qualified 2009 65% 2008 53% 3 yr avg. 56.6% catch rate per target Dwayne Bowe 2011 57% 2010 54% 2009 54% 2008 53% 4 yr avg. 54.5% catch rate per target
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    You have to be very careful with these numbers. Welker and Branch had Brady throwing them the ball. Look at Branch's numbers in 08' with the QB he had. Coston had Brees tossing him the ball and Wayne had Manning until this year (happens to be his lowest % year). I think a good QB adds 5-10% just for accuracy and a bad QB will subtract 5-10%. Who has Lloyd had throwing to him the last 2 years?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Have been following all the draft gurus with interest. Probably the maddest Australian Pats supporters and were lucky to see the Dallas and Jets games last October when on holidays. Just saw Rotoworld's 10 most overrated players in the draft. May be interested to see Michael Brockers (no 2), Vontaze Burfict, Whitney Mercilus and Jerel Worthy all players that have had some strong mention on this thread. You may be also interested in their 10 most underrated players............
    Posted by sydpat[/QUOTE]

    Rotoworld does this a lot. They are notorious for making underrated lists based on who isn't being talked up but is considered good prospects and overrated lists based solely on who's getting the most talk at the moment. Brockers they might have a point though. Not because of hype but because he hasn't had the numbers in college to support the potential. Same with Mercilus only having 1 year of potential. Last year they had Aldon Smith, Netwon, and J.J. Watt on the overrated list and I remember them having JPP on the list too for the same reasons Mercilus is on it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Some stats for thought based on FA WR's we've talked about. If Lloyd didn't know the system and so many others had past difficulty with it I would not go near him. Brandon LLoyd 2011 43% 2010 50% Prior he was virtually non existent 2 yr avg. 46.5% catch rate per target Wes Welker 2011 72% 2010 70% 2009 76% 2008 72% 4 yr avg. 72.5% catch rate per target Marques Colston 2011 76% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 51% 4 yr avg. 64% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 68.3% catch rate per target Reggie Wayne 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 66% 2008 58% 4 yr avg. 61% catch rate per target With Manning 62.3% Deion Branch 2011 57% 2010 63% 2009 57% 2008 48% 4 yr avg. 56.25% catch rate per target 3 yr avg. 59% catch rate per target Mario Manningham 2011 52% 2010 65% 2009 58% 3 yr avg. 58.3% catch rate per target Mike Wallace 2011 60% 2010 58% 2009 54% 3 yr avg. 57.3% catch rate per target Vincent Jackson 2011 52% 2010 not qualified 2009 65% 2008 53% 3 yr avg. 56.6% catch rate per target Dwayne Bowe 2011 57% 2010 54% 2009 54% 2008 53% 4 yr avg. 54.5% catch rate per target
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Low,
    Interesting stats. But, shouldn't this be taken in context? It looks like you are comparing receivers who line up in different positions. Is it fair to compare Welker with Jackson for example, or Mike Wallce? Seems to me that Wallace is often targeted in the deep part of the field where the level of difficulty increases with both throw and catch as compared to Welker who is usually targeted in the short/middle part of the field where the degree of difficulty is less?

    Of the list however, Colston I think compares most favorably given the offense he played in and how he was used. I'm with Pats7393...I like Meachem too, or any Saints receiver for that matter as their offense / QB play probably is more similar to how the Pats play...

    Is it me or is this whole thing about worrying that drafted and FA WRs learning the system scary? It makes the selection that much more difficult with a complex system. The guys who we drafted or FA'd that failed...is it because they simply weren't any good, or was the system too complex and they didn't earn Brady's trust?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round.  What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know? Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I like a good UDFA story as anyone, but guys come on. THere is a reason kids are not drafted and become UDFAs.
    With a roster chock full of late round and UDFA talent, I want to see us strike some gold early. Okay to fill for depth, maybe eventually work their way in, but should we be relying on 6th round - UDFAs to be the bedrock of our roster?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Rotoworld does this a lot. They are notorious for making underrated lists based on who isn't being talked up but is considered good prospects and overrated lists based solely on who's getting the most talk at the moment. Brockers they might have a point though. Not because of hype but because he hasn't had the numbers in college to support the potential. Same with Mercilus only having 1 year of potential. Last year they had Aldon Smith, Netwon, and J.J. Watt on the overrated list and I remember them having JPP on the list too for the same reasons Mercilus is on it.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Ha! Maybe we should draft only those players that Rotoworld rates as overrated?


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low you got Meachem's?  That's who I would like for them to target along with Lloyd and keep Welker.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    On the site I was checking Meachum only qualified in 2009 but was an impressive 69% that year.

    He didn't do much in 2008 and I am not sure but for some reason he's not being listed for 2010 and 2011. No idea??
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Posting from a story in todays BDC.  I was suprised to see that the DL actually out performed the OL.  The receivers were great primarily because of the TE and Welker play.  Running backs and LBs were bad and of course the secondary was a disaster.  Special teams were not great in the return game but solid in the coverage game.

    Of particular surprise was how poorly Mankins played (new contract perhaps weighing him down) and the play at RT.  Obviously Vollmer wasn't himself and rookie Solder wasn't used to playing on the right side. 

    Quarterbacks

    Seasonal average rating: 3.7 out of 5

    Tom Brady was again at the top of his game for most of the season as he passed for 5,235 yards (second-most in league history). Amazingly, his 65.6 completion percentage was his lowest (by the slimmest of margins) since 2006. Brady’s 39 touchdowns were his most since 2007 (50), and he went from four interceptions a year ago to 12 this season, and he had four more in three post-season games. During the season, Brady had nine games that can be considered outstanding with ratings of four or more (Rating 4.5-At Miami, San Diego, at Oakland, Jets, at Philadelphia, at Denver and vs. Denver; rating 4.0-Colts, at Washington). Four times he was player of the game. Brady’s worst games came in both matchups with the Bills and the Giants. The regular-season game against the Giants in Week 9 was Brady’s roughest outing (1.5 rating), when he registered a regular-season low 75.4 rating. His rough patch during the regular season - starting at Pittsburgh and ending in the second half against the Chiefs - can almost directly be attributed to the bone bruise and subsequent tendonitis he developed. Brady just didn’t have his same accuracy during that stretch. Through eight games, Brady had 10 interceptions. He threw two the rest of the regular season.


    Running backs

    Seasonal rating: 3.2 out of 5

    This position is one of the best examples for how these ratings evaluate overall execution, and not talent or effectiveness. The running backs almost always hit the correct hole, did a solid job in blitz pickup and pass catching, and almost never fumbled (two, both by rookie Stevan Ridley, with one lost). They just didn’t do much if anything of the spectacular variety. Patriots had only five rushes over 20 yards, and all were by Ridley. Patriots had nine in 2010. The Patriots rushed for 10 or more yards on 8.9 percent of their carries, the lowest since 2002 (8.1 percent). They were at 10.8 in 2010 - most-ever under Bill Belichick. BenJarvus Green-Ellis ran for 667 yards on 181 carries (3.7 average), a season after going for 1,008 on 224 (4.4). Ridley, the rookie third-round pick, assumed the lead back role late in the season by averaging 5.2 yards per carry in his final four games. But fumbles in back-to-back weeks (Buffalo to finish season, Denver in playoffs) sent him to the bench. Danny Woodhead came out like gangbusters (14 carries, 69 yards at Miami), but wasn’t wholly effective until after midseason. Kevin Faulk (ACL surgery) came off the PUP list to play 39 snaps at Pittsburgh, and played 51 total in the final 12 games, including the playoffs.


    Receivers

    Rating: 3.8 out of 5

    The best position on the team in terms of execution, but had some struggles against the Cowboys, Steelers and in the Super Bowl. Patriots receivers led the league by dropping just 5.2 percent of the 424 catchable passes thrown to them (22 total drops), according to STATS. That’s a marked improvement over 2010 when they ranked 30th at 10.5 percent (39 total drops in 370 catchable passes). Seven times a receiver was named to the top player in this space - three for tight end Rob Gronkowski, and two each for tight end Aaron Hernandez and receiver Wes Welker. This group often contributed to the running game, with the run blocks become better and more effective as the season went along. Welker led the league with 122 catches, was second with 1,569 yards and had nine touchdowns. Gronkowski set new standards for the position in touchdowns (18) and receiving yards (1,327), and his blocking was virtually without peer. Hernandez became a huge weapon down the stretch as he finished with 79 catches, 910 yards and seven touchdowns. He missed two games with a knee injury, and toughed it through a hand full more before becoming full healthy. Deion Branch still had his short-area quickness and route running to be a reliable target. Chad Ochocinco (15 receptions) was a major flop after being acquired in a trade.


    Offensive line

    Rating: 3.2 out of 5

    As with most NFL lines, the Patriots had to make do with some flux starting from the very first game when center Dan Koppen was lost for the season with a leg injury. Dan Connolly ably moved over from right guard and performed very well. He allowed 1.5 sacks, 11 hurries and 7.3 knockdowns (one was shared with three players) for 19.8 total quarterback pressures, although Connolly missed the better part of four games with a groin injury. Only right guard Brian Waters (12.5) was better among regulars. Waters was simply outstanding nearly the entire season. Left tackle Matt Light saw his sack total dwindle from 7.5 in 2010 to 2.5 this season, and he also cut his hurries from 30 to 18. Left guard Logan Mankins slumped in most categories. In 10 games last season, he allowed 0.75 pressures per game and was voted All-Pro. This season he allowed 1.35 in 18 games and was a surprise vote to the Pro Bowl. Mankins’ 16 run stuffs allowed (those of 1 yard or less outside short yardage including penalties drawn) was tied with Waters, who played one more game and is not known for his run blocking. The Patriots definitely took a step back at right tackle this season. Sebastian Vollmer allowed 37 total pressures last season (one sack). Combined this season Vollmer, who battled back and leg injuries) and rookie Nate Solder allowed 48.5 pressures and 10.5 sacks. The line allowed 32 sacks, most since 2003, and had some issues run blocking.


    Defensive line

    Rating: 3.6 out of 5

    While there was much instability because of injuries at other positions, the line anchored the defense. And that was while going through a huge transformation in its own right. The Patriots departed camp with sights on a deep rotation with a four-man line. But injuries to promising Mike Wright (concussion) and Myron Pryor (shoulder) in the season opener, and the released of Albert Haynesworth after eight games left the unit short of players. When end Andre Carter was out for the season in Week 15, the unit had to go back to a three-man line. Even with missing the final five games, Carter still led the team with 41.5 total quarterback pressures (10.5 sacks) and his 13 stuffed runs was second only to Vince Wilfork (17.5). Losing Carter would have killed other teams, but the Patriots adjusted and kept going. Wilfork was outstanding playing more snaps than ever (86.6). He ranked fourth with 29.5 pressues, including six sacks, and had two interceptions. Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick played well in spurts. The unit was extremely well coached by Pepper Johnson and was fundamentally sound.

    Linebackers

    Rating: 3.1 out of 5

    This unit had some rough patches because of injuries to Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes, the overuse at times of Rob Ninkovich, and then the transition of Mark Anderson to weak outside linebacker once Carter was injured. Like the rest of the defense, the linebacker bottomed out in losses at Buffalo and Pittsburgh, but played much better by the end of the season when Mayo and Spikes were fully healthy. The unit’s rating the final three games was better than any other three-game stretch during the season. If you include Anderson with the linebackers, the unit accounted for 47 percent of the sacks (24), 40 percent of the pressures (95.5) and 35.4 of the stuffed runs (38.5). Mayo had nine pressures and nine run stuffs in 17 games. Spikes had six and 8.5 in 12 games. He was much more impactful. If there wasn’t pressure being generated on the quarterback, the linebackers had a tough time in coverage.


    Secondary

    Rating: 2.4 out of 5

    This unit was not good most of the season, and didn’t get the ship righted until the season finale against the Bills. The Patriots became the first team in the Super Bowl era to go to the championship game with a yards per attempt allowed over 7.68 (8.04) during the regular season. New England gave up an NFL-worst 89 pass plays of 20 yards or more (league average: 64) after giving up 61 last season. Things didn’t improve much as over the course of the final eight regular season game, the Patriots still ranked 31st with 44 allowed (31 average). Eight times a defensive back was the worst-rated player (Devin McCourty led with three). The decision to go with Josh Barrett and Sergio Brown at safety opposite Patrick Chung got things off to a bad start. McCourty’s inability to play the preferred man coverage didn’t help, and by the time rookie Ras-I Dowling (Oct. 29) and Leigh Bodden (Oct. 28), the Patriots were in full retreat mode back to soft zone coverage while they scrambled to find anyone who would not get beat deep, tackle and take decent angles. The coaches finally found a passable rotation by the end of the season - Kyle Arrington (seven interceptions) was a surprise and Sterling Moore showed a nose for the ball - and nearly pulled off a world title despite poor talent. Safety James Ihedigbo was solid in the box.



    Special teams

    Rating 3.3 out of 5

    Outside of one Julian Edelman punt return for a touchdown, both kick return units proved to be no threat to the opposition. However, the coverage units were terrific all season, and punter Zoltan Mesko performed near a Pro-Bowl level. He led the AFC and finished third in the NFL with a 41.5 net average. His 46.5 overall average broke Tom Tupa’s franchise record of 45.8 set in 1997. Of his 57 punts, 42.1 percent were inside the 20 and he only had three touchbacks. Stephen Gostkowski was solid all season (84.8 field goal percentage, highest since ’08), especially on kickoffs where he went from 35.6 percent touchbacks in 2010 (second in NFL) to 39.8 (18th) thanks to the new rule. Matthew Slater led with 17 tackles while being voted to the Pro Bowl.

    Greg A. Bedard can be reached at gbedard@globe.com.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : You have to be very careful with these numbers. Welker and Branch had Brady throwing them the ball. Look at Branch's numbers in 08' with the QB he had. Coston had Brees tossing him the ball and Wayne had Manning until this year (happens to be his lowest % year). I think a good QB adds 5-10% just for accuracy and a bad QB will subtract 5-10%. Who has Lloyd had throwing to him the last 2 years?
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    I agreed that is a good potential argument and valid possible range.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low, Interesting stats. But, shouldn't this be taken in context? It looks like you are comparing receivers who line up in different positions. Is it fair to compare Welker with Jackson for example, or Mike Wallce? Seems to me that Wallace is often targeted in the deep part of the field where the level of difficulty increases with both throw and catch as compared to Welker who is usually targeted in the short/middle part of the field where the degree of difficulty is less? Of the list however, Colston I think compares most favorably given the offense he played in and how he was used. I'm with Pats7393...I like Meachem too, or any Saints receiver for that matter as their offense / QB play probably is more similar to how the Pats play... Is it me or is this whole thing about worrying that drafted and FA WRs learning the system scary? It makes the selection that much more difficult with a complex system. The guys who we drafted or FA'd that failed...is it because they simply weren't any good, or was the system too complex and they didn't earn Brady's trust?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]


    Yes and no. It could be argued that going over the middle or underneath is more difficult because the ball is arriving more quickly with less time to get your head around and react, more traffic to contend with, less line of sight, as well as the their being potentially more opportunity for getting your head taken off.

    It's not just you and it's why we almost all universally say we should get Lloyd because he has a known quantity of success in the Patriots offensive system.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Top 50 according to CBS.  Imagine if we got the first 3?  We dump Light and Waters ($7.5MM in cap) to pay for Carl Nicks.  Lloyd didn't even make the Top 50 so he should come cheap.

    1.
    Mario Williams, DE, Houston Texans: The Texans used him as a 3-4 rush outside linebacker last year, but I think his best spot is as a 4-3 end.


    In a passing league, a young, premium corner like Carr will attract top dollar. (US Presswire)  
    In a passing league, a young, premium corner like Carr will attract top dollar. (US Presswire)  
    2. Brandon Carr, CB, Kansas City Chiefs: How often do good man-cover players in their primes hit the market? This kid is about to get paid. He is this high because he plays a premium position well. He turns 26 in May.

    3. Carl Nicks, G, New Orleans Saints: I consider him to be the best guard in the NFL. He is a nasty player who can block for the run or the pass. He turns 27 in May.

    4. Cliff Avril, DE, Detroit Lions: He has 19 1/2 sacks the past two seasons, including 11 last season. He has developed into a top pass rusher. He turns 26 in April, which makes him even more valuable.

    5. DeSean Jackson, WR, Philadelphia Eagles: The ability should get him a huge contract. But the attitude might cut that down some. Even so, this kid is a game-changer. Those guys don't hit the market all the time. He turns 26 in December.

    6. Jermichael Finley, TE, Green Bay Packers: He didn't quite have the season many expected in 2011 (55 catches), but he is still a heck of an athlete who can do a ton of things for a tight end. He turns 25 in March.

    7. Vincent Jackson, WR, San Diego Chargers: The Chargers want him back, but at what cost? The indication is that the team won't tag him. He turned 29 in January.

    8. Brent Grimes, CB, Atlanta Falcons: He is a feisty corner who can play man or zone. He is small, but he has great athletic ability. The Falcons missed him late when he was injured. He turns 29 in August.

    9. Dwayne Bowe, WR, Kansas City Chiefs: The Chiefs want him back in the worst way, but at what price? He is their top target in the passing game, but do they tag him? He turns 28 in September.

    10. Red Bryant, DT, Seattle Seahawks: He had eight starts in his first three seasons, but started 16 in 2011 and was a force on the Seattle defense. He is a perfect 3-4 end, which is where he played last season. He is this year's Ray McDonald. He turns 28 in April.


    The Ravens could slap the franchise tag on Ray Rice, who still has plenty of mileage left at 25. (US Presswire)  
    The Ravens could slap the franchise tag on Ray Rice, who still has plenty of mileage left at 25. (US Presswire)  
    11. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens: He is a big part of what the Ravens do, and there is a chance he could get franchised. But that's not a definite. He just turned 25 in January.

    12. Robert Mathis, DE, Indianapolis Colts: He is coming off his best season but turns 31 this month and is older than some teams would like for free agents. He has improved against the run and could easily make the transition from 4-3 end to 3-4 rush 'backer.

    13. Steve Johnson, WR, Buffalo Bills: There has already been some outrageous numbers bandied about for Johnson. The Bills want him back, but the price could get high. He is a franchise tag possibility. He turns 26 in July.

    14. Cortland Finnegan, CB, Tennessee Titans: He just turned 28 this month and will be a hot commodity on the open market. It doesn't appear he's coming back to Tennessee. The Lions would seem to be a team that will make a push.

    15. Carlos Rogers, CB, San Francisco 49ers: He is the player who will benefit most from signing a one-year deal. He will cash in big after a good 2011 season for the 49ers. He isn't young, turning 31 in July.

    16. Marques Colston, WR, New Orleans Saints: The question with Colston is whether he would be as good in another system. I say yes, but he isn't a burner. He turns 29 in June.

    17. Tyvon Branch, S, Oakland Raiders: Branch led the Raiders in tackles and should have been in the Pro Bowl. He has improved in coverage as well. He turns 26 in December.

    18. Wes Welker, WR, New England Patriots: He led the league in catches, but is he a No. 1 receiver in any other system? The other issue is age. He turns 31 in June.

    19. Dashon Goldson, S, San Francisco 49ers: He is coming off his most complete season. He has always been a good run defender, but improved against the pass this season with six picks. He seemed leaner and faster. He turns 28 in September.


    Tracy Porter might prove to be too costly for the Saints. (US Presswire)  
    Tracy Porter might prove to be too costly for the Saints. (US Presswire)  
    20. Tracy Porter, CB, New Orleans Saints: He is a good, solid starting corner, and those guys get paid. The Saints probably won't be able to keep him. He turns 26 in August.

    21. Jeremy Mincey, DE, Jacksonville Jaguars: This is a try-hard player who did some good things against some good tackles last season. He isn't a speed player, but he is a solid 10-sack, good-run player. He turns 29 in December.

    22. Chris Myers. C, Houston Texans: He was one of the better centers in the NFL last season, a perfect player for their cutback schemes. He turns 31 in September.

    23. Jared Gaither, T, San Diego Chargers: The Chargers added him late when Marcus McNeil went down and he played well down the stretch. He has ability, which he showed when he was a starter for the Ravens before back troubles slowed his career. He turns 26 in March.

    24. Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Denver Broncos: He is coming off his best season, the timing of it coming perfectly in the final year of his deal. He turns 29 in November.

    25. Anthony Spencer, OLB, Dallas Cowboys: In a league desperate for pass-rush help, he will get action on the market, even though his six-sack total was a disappointment last season. He just turned 28 in January.

    26. Curtis Lofton LB, Atlanta Falcons: He's a plug linebacker who had a tendency to get lost in pass coverage at times. He's good against the run but with it being a passing league, is the value there? He turns 26 in June.

    27. Aaron Ross, CB, New York Giants: He's been a decent starting corner for two Super Bowl teams. That means something. He's a good second corner. He turns 30 in September.

    28. John Abraham, DE, Atlanta Falcons: He had 9 1/2 sacks for the Falcons in 2011 and played better late when he was entirely healthy. But he turns 34 in May. He will be hard-pressed to get a big contract because of that.

    29. Ben Grubbs, G, Baltimore Ravens: He missed six games with a toe injury this season, but started 48 straight from 2008-10. He is the other guard on the Ravens line to Marshall Yanda, but he's still a good player. He turns 28 in March.

    30. Alex Smith, QB, San Francisco: He seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 27 and turns 28 in May. He is coming off his best season with 17 touchdown passes and five interceptions. The 49ers want him back, but there's no way they franchise tag him.

    31. Reggie Wayne, WR, Indianapolis Colts: The question with Wayne is how many more years he has left to give. He can still be good for three or so, but how do you structure the contract? He turns 34 in November.

    32. Demetrius Bell, T, Buffalo Bills: After starting 16 games in 2010, he had just six starts in 2011 because of knee issues. He turns 28 in May, which means his best football is in front of him.

    33. D'Qwell Jackson, ILB, Cleveland Browns: After missing all of 2010 with a torn pectoral, he bounced back to start all 16 games last season and played at a Pro Bowl level. He turns 29 in September.

    34. Pierre Garcon, WR, Indianapolis Colts: He caught a career-high 70 passes last season without good quarterback play. He can fly, which will make him attractive to other teams. He turns 26 in August.

    35. Matt Flynn, QB, Green Bay Packers: How good is he? Does anybody really know? Is he Rob Johnson or Matt Schaub? The team that signs him better hope he's the latter. He turns 27 in June.

    36. Scott Wells, C, Green Bay Packers: He is the anchor of the Green Bay line and played well this season. He is a tough guy who battles. He just turned 31 in January.

    37. Stephen Tulloch, MLB, Detroit Lions: On a one-year deal, he had 111 tackles and two picks for the Lions. He just turned 27, so age isn't an issue. He's a steady player.

    38. Jason Jones, DT-DE, Tennessee Titans: He has flashed at times in his four seasons with the Titans, but he should be doing more. Has played both inside and outside for the Titans. He turns 26 in May, so he has time to become a really good player.

    39. Sione Pouha, NT, New York Jets: He's had more than 50 tackles each of the past two seasons on the nose for the Jets. That's impressive. But he just turned 33, which is a concern.

    40. Dwight Lowery, D, Jacksonville Jaguars: This former corner made a nice home at free safety for the Jaguars last season. He played above the level of expectations. The Jaguars want him back, but in a league where safety talent is at a minimum this former Jets player will get a nice deal. He just turned 26 in January.

    41. Evan Mathis, G, Philadelphia Eagles: Mathis signed a one-year deal with the Eagles and played well. That could earn him a nice multiyear contract. He turns 31 in November.

    42. Marshawn Lynch, RB, Seattle Seahawks: He has rejuvenated his career in Seattle after being a disappointment in Buffalo in his last two seasons. He ran for 1,204 yards last season for the Seahawks and he only turns 26 in March.

    43. Reggie Nelson, S, Cincinnati Bengals: He was a disappointment in Jacksonville, but has turned his career around with the Bengals. He's a rangy safety who has improved his tackling. He turns 29 in September.

    44. Jarrett Johnson, OLB, Baltimore Ravens: He's one of the underrated players on the Ravens defense. He isn't as flashy as some, but he gets the job done. He does turn 31 in August.

    45. Robert Meachem, WR, New Orleans Saints: He's never caught more than 45 passes in a season but has the speed teams love. He does have 20 touchdown catches in the past three seasons. He turns 28 in September.

    46. Michael Griffin, S, Tennessee Titans: His play has tailed off some this past season, but he's only 27. When he's at his best, he is a good, solid player. He's never been as good as his reputation.

    47. Jerome Simpson, WR, Cincinnati Bengals: He is a receiver who can fly. That would make him a hot commodity, but he has a legal issue hanging over his head. He just turned 26 earlier this month.

    48. Paul Soliai, DT, Miami Dolphins: The Dolphins franchised him last year and he played for that tag. It won't happen again. But he is a solid player who will get play on the market. He turns 29 in December.

    49. Mario Manningham, WR, New York Giants: The Super Bowl hero is a good player, but is he a No. 2 receiver. And how much will he cost? Did the Super Bowl make the price come up? He turns 26 in May.

    50. Pat Sims DT, Cincinnati Bengals: He has started 23 games in four seasons for the Bengals. He is mostly an anchor inside against the run. He won't bring a lot of pass rush. He turns 27 in November.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low you got Meachem's?  That's who I would like for them to target along with Lloyd and keep Welker.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Using Football outsiders Meachem would be at a 3 yr avg. of 68% catch rate putting him right near Colston.

    This again being in some part tied to quality of QB for both Colston and Meachem.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I agreed that is a good potential argument and valid possible range.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Would also have to take into account the number of games played in a dome vs. outdoors etc... which would only enhance Brees'/Manning's etc., passing efficiency.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Faucet, I zoned out on Rodney.  I taught at Oxford Hills, rival of Farmington.  Since '98 I've been in Nor-Cal, San Jose.  Like that weather much better, and I get to be in Maine in the summers.  Back to business.  If we trade up, I'd rather try for Brockers.  Could we do it for a #1 and #2?  I wouldn't do it for two #1's.  If we stick with our picks, I'd like two best D players available.  I'd like to go for C and WR in rounds 2-4.  I'm in favor of checking out Ohio State linemen.  I'm in favor of a brute O lineman and running a little more.
     

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