***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Rotoworld does this a lot. They are notorious for making underrated lists based on who isn't being talked up but is considered good prospects and overrated lists based solely on who's getting the most talk at the moment. Brockers they might have a point though. Not because of hype but because he hasn't had the numbers in college to support the potential. Same with Mercilus only having 1 year of potential. Last year they had Aldon Smith, Netwon, and J.J. Watt on the overrated list and I remember them having JPP on the list too for the same reasons Mercilus is on it.
    Posted by PatsEng


    Ha! Maybe we should draft only those players that Rotoworld rates as overrated?


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low you got Meachem's?  That's who I would like for them to target along with Lloyd and keep Welker.
    Posted by Pats7393


    On the site I was checking Meachum only qualified in 2009 but was an impressive 69% that year.

    He didn't do much in 2008 and I am not sure but for some reason he's not being listed for 2010 and 2011. No idea??
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Posting from a story in todays BDC.  I was suprised to see that the DL actually out performed the OL.  The receivers were great primarily because of the TE and Welker play.  Running backs and LBs were bad and of course the secondary was a disaster.  Special teams were not great in the return game but solid in the coverage game.

    Of particular surprise was how poorly Mankins played (new contract perhaps weighing him down) and the play at RT.  Obviously Vollmer wasn't himself and rookie Solder wasn't used to playing on the right side. 

    Quarterbacks

    Seasonal average rating: 3.7 out of 5

    Tom Brady was again at the top of his game for most of the season as he passed for 5,235 yards (second-most in league history). Amazingly, his 65.6 completion percentage was his lowest (by the slimmest of margins) since 2006. Brady’s 39 touchdowns were his most since 2007 (50), and he went from four interceptions a year ago to 12 this season, and he had four more in three post-season games. During the season, Brady had nine games that can be considered outstanding with ratings of four or more (Rating 4.5-At Miami, San Diego, at Oakland, Jets, at Philadelphia, at Denver and vs. Denver; rating 4.0-Colts, at Washington). Four times he was player of the game. Brady’s worst games came in both matchups with the Bills and the Giants. The regular-season game against the Giants in Week 9 was Brady’s roughest outing (1.5 rating), when he registered a regular-season low 75.4 rating. His rough patch during the regular season - starting at Pittsburgh and ending in the second half against the Chiefs - can almost directly be attributed to the bone bruise and subsequent tendonitis he developed. Brady just didn’t have his same accuracy during that stretch. Through eight games, Brady had 10 interceptions. He threw two the rest of the regular season.


    Running backs

    Seasonal rating: 3.2 out of 5

    This position is one of the best examples for how these ratings evaluate overall execution, and not talent or effectiveness. The running backs almost always hit the correct hole, did a solid job in blitz pickup and pass catching, and almost never fumbled (two, both by rookie Stevan Ridley, with one lost). They just didn’t do much if anything of the spectacular variety. Patriots had only five rushes over 20 yards, and all were by Ridley. Patriots had nine in 2010. The Patriots rushed for 10 or more yards on 8.9 percent of their carries, the lowest since 2002 (8.1 percent). They were at 10.8 in 2010 - most-ever under Bill Belichick. BenJarvus Green-Ellis ran for 667 yards on 181 carries (3.7 average), a season after going for 1,008 on 224 (4.4). Ridley, the rookie third-round pick, assumed the lead back role late in the season by averaging 5.2 yards per carry in his final four games. But fumbles in back-to-back weeks (Buffalo to finish season, Denver in playoffs) sent him to the bench. Danny Woodhead came out like gangbusters (14 carries, 69 yards at Miami), but wasn’t wholly effective until after midseason. Kevin Faulk (ACL surgery) came off the PUP list to play 39 snaps at Pittsburgh, and played 51 total in the final 12 games, including the playoffs.


    Receivers

    Rating: 3.8 out of 5

    The best position on the team in terms of execution, but had some struggles against the Cowboys, Steelers and in the Super Bowl. Patriots receivers led the league by dropping just 5.2 percent of the 424 catchable passes thrown to them (22 total drops), according to STATS. That’s a marked improvement over 2010 when they ranked 30th at 10.5 percent (39 total drops in 370 catchable passes). Seven times a receiver was named to the top player in this space - three for tight end Rob Gronkowski, and two each for tight end Aaron Hernandez and receiver Wes Welker. This group often contributed to the running game, with the run blocks become better and more effective as the season went along. Welker led the league with 122 catches, was second with 1,569 yards and had nine touchdowns. Gronkowski set new standards for the position in touchdowns (18) and receiving yards (1,327), and his blocking was virtually without peer. Hernandez became a huge weapon down the stretch as he finished with 79 catches, 910 yards and seven touchdowns. He missed two games with a knee injury, and toughed it through a hand full more before becoming full healthy. Deion Branch still had his short-area quickness and route running to be a reliable target. Chad Ochocinco (15 receptions) was a major flop after being acquired in a trade.


    Offensive line

    Rating: 3.2 out of 5

    As with most NFL lines, the Patriots had to make do with some flux starting from the very first game when center Dan Koppen was lost for the season with a leg injury. Dan Connolly ably moved over from right guard and performed very well. He allowed 1.5 sacks, 11 hurries and 7.3 knockdowns (one was shared with three players) for 19.8 total quarterback pressures, although Connolly missed the better part of four games with a groin injury. Only right guard Brian Waters (12.5) was better among regulars. Waters was simply outstanding nearly the entire season. Left tackle Matt Light saw his sack total dwindle from 7.5 in 2010 to 2.5 this season, and he also cut his hurries from 30 to 18. Left guard Logan Mankins slumped in most categories. In 10 games last season, he allowed 0.75 pressures per game and was voted All-Pro. This season he allowed 1.35 in 18 games and was a surprise vote to the Pro Bowl. Mankins’ 16 run stuffs allowed (those of 1 yard or less outside short yardage including penalties drawn) was tied with Waters, who played one more game and is not known for his run blocking. The Patriots definitely took a step back at right tackle this season. Sebastian Vollmer allowed 37 total pressures last season (one sack). Combined this season Vollmer, who battled back and leg injuries) and rookie Nate Solder allowed 48.5 pressures and 10.5 sacks. The line allowed 32 sacks, most since 2003, and had some issues run blocking.


    Defensive line

    Rating: 3.6 out of 5

    While there was much instability because of injuries at other positions, the line anchored the defense. And that was while going through a huge transformation in its own right. The Patriots departed camp with sights on a deep rotation with a four-man line. But injuries to promising Mike Wright (concussion) and Myron Pryor (shoulder) in the season opener, and the released of Albert Haynesworth after eight games left the unit short of players. When end Andre Carter was out for the season in Week 15, the unit had to go back to a three-man line. Even with missing the final five games, Carter still led the team with 41.5 total quarterback pressures (10.5 sacks) and his 13 stuffed runs was second only to Vince Wilfork (17.5). Losing Carter would have killed other teams, but the Patriots adjusted and kept going. Wilfork was outstanding playing more snaps than ever (86.6). He ranked fourth with 29.5 pressues, including six sacks, and had two interceptions. Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick played well in spurts. The unit was extremely well coached by Pepper Johnson and was fundamentally sound.

    Linebackers

    Rating: 3.1 out of 5

    This unit had some rough patches because of injuries to Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes, the overuse at times of Rob Ninkovich, and then the transition of Mark Anderson to weak outside linebacker once Carter was injured. Like the rest of the defense, the linebacker bottomed out in losses at Buffalo and Pittsburgh, but played much better by the end of the season when Mayo and Spikes were fully healthy. The unit’s rating the final three games was better than any other three-game stretch during the season. If you include Anderson with the linebackers, the unit accounted for 47 percent of the sacks (24), 40 percent of the pressures (95.5) and 35.4 of the stuffed runs (38.5). Mayo had nine pressures and nine run stuffs in 17 games. Spikes had six and 8.5 in 12 games. He was much more impactful. If there wasn’t pressure being generated on the quarterback, the linebackers had a tough time in coverage.


    Secondary

    Rating: 2.4 out of 5

    This unit was not good most of the season, and didn’t get the ship righted until the season finale against the Bills. The Patriots became the first team in the Super Bowl era to go to the championship game with a yards per attempt allowed over 7.68 (8.04) during the regular season. New England gave up an NFL-worst 89 pass plays of 20 yards or more (league average: 64) after giving up 61 last season. Things didn’t improve much as over the course of the final eight regular season game, the Patriots still ranked 31st with 44 allowed (31 average). Eight times a defensive back was the worst-rated player (Devin McCourty led with three). The decision to go with Josh Barrett and Sergio Brown at safety opposite Patrick Chung got things off to a bad start. McCourty’s inability to play the preferred man coverage didn’t help, and by the time rookie Ras-I Dowling (Oct. 29) and Leigh Bodden (Oct. 28), the Patriots were in full retreat mode back to soft zone coverage while they scrambled to find anyone who would not get beat deep, tackle and take decent angles. The coaches finally found a passable rotation by the end of the season - Kyle Arrington (seven interceptions) was a surprise and Sterling Moore showed a nose for the ball - and nearly pulled off a world title despite poor talent. Safety James Ihedigbo was solid in the box.



    Special teams

    Rating 3.3 out of 5

    Outside of one Julian Edelman punt return for a touchdown, both kick return units proved to be no threat to the opposition. However, the coverage units were terrific all season, and punter Zoltan Mesko performed near a Pro-Bowl level. He led the AFC and finished third in the NFL with a 41.5 net average. His 46.5 overall average broke Tom Tupa’s franchise record of 45.8 set in 1997. Of his 57 punts, 42.1 percent were inside the 20 and he only had three touchbacks. Stephen Gostkowski was solid all season (84.8 field goal percentage, highest since ’08), especially on kickoffs where he went from 35.6 percent touchbacks in 2010 (second in NFL) to 39.8 (18th) thanks to the new rule. Matthew Slater led with 17 tackles while being voted to the Pro Bowl.

    Greg A. Bedard can be reached at gbedard@globe.com.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : You have to be very careful with these numbers. Welker and Branch had Brady throwing them the ball. Look at Branch's numbers in 08' with the QB he had. Coston had Brees tossing him the ball and Wayne had Manning until this year (happens to be his lowest % year). I think a good QB adds 5-10% just for accuracy and a bad QB will subtract 5-10%. Who has Lloyd had throwing to him the last 2 years?
    Posted by PatsEng



    I agreed that is a good potential argument and valid possible range.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low, Interesting stats. But, shouldn't this be taken in context? It looks like you are comparing receivers who line up in different positions. Is it fair to compare Welker with Jackson for example, or Mike Wallce? Seems to me that Wallace is often targeted in the deep part of the field where the level of difficulty increases with both throw and catch as compared to Welker who is usually targeted in the short/middle part of the field where the degree of difficulty is less? Of the list however, Colston I think compares most favorably given the offense he played in and how he was used. I'm with Pats7393...I like Meachem too, or any Saints receiver for that matter as their offense / QB play probably is more similar to how the Pats play... Is it me or is this whole thing about worrying that drafted and FA WRs learning the system scary? It makes the selection that much more difficult with a complex system. The guys who we drafted or FA'd that failed...is it because they simply weren't any good, or was the system too complex and they didn't earn Brady's trust?
    Posted by PatsLifer



    Yes and no. It could be argued that going over the middle or underneath is more difficult because the ball is arriving more quickly with less time to get your head around and react, more traffic to contend with, less line of sight, as well as the their being potentially more opportunity for getting your head taken off.

    It's not just you and it's why we almost all universally say we should get Lloyd because he has a known quantity of success in the Patriots offensive system.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Top 50 according to CBS.  Imagine if we got the first 3?  We dump Light and Waters ($7.5MM in cap) to pay for Carl Nicks.  Lloyd didn't even make the Top 50 so he should come cheap.

    1.
    Mario Williams, DE, Houston Texans: The Texans used him as a 3-4 rush outside linebacker last year, but I think his best spot is as a 4-3 end.


    In a passing league, a young, premium corner like Carr will attract top dollar. (US Presswire)  
    In a passing league, a young, premium corner like Carr will attract top dollar. (US Presswire)  
    2. Brandon Carr, CB, Kansas City Chiefs: How often do good man-cover players in their primes hit the market? This kid is about to get paid. He is this high because he plays a premium position well. He turns 26 in May.

    3. Carl Nicks, G, New Orleans Saints: I consider him to be the best guard in the NFL. He is a nasty player who can block for the run or the pass. He turns 27 in May.

    4. Cliff Avril, DE, Detroit Lions: He has 19 1/2 sacks the past two seasons, including 11 last season. He has developed into a top pass rusher. He turns 26 in April, which makes him even more valuable.

    5. DeSean Jackson, WR, Philadelphia Eagles: The ability should get him a huge contract. But the attitude might cut that down some. Even so, this kid is a game-changer. Those guys don't hit the market all the time. He turns 26 in December.

    6. Jermichael Finley, TE, Green Bay Packers: He didn't quite have the season many expected in 2011 (55 catches), but he is still a heck of an athlete who can do a ton of things for a tight end. He turns 25 in March.

    7. Vincent Jackson, WR, San Diego Chargers: The Chargers want him back, but at what cost? The indication is that the team won't tag him. He turned 29 in January.

    8. Brent Grimes, CB, Atlanta Falcons: He is a feisty corner who can play man or zone. He is small, but he has great athletic ability. The Falcons missed him late when he was injured. He turns 29 in August.

    9. Dwayne Bowe, WR, Kansas City Chiefs: The Chiefs want him back in the worst way, but at what price? He is their top target in the passing game, but do they tag him? He turns 28 in September.

    10. Red Bryant, DT, Seattle Seahawks: He had eight starts in his first three seasons, but started 16 in 2011 and was a force on the Seattle defense. He is a perfect 3-4 end, which is where he played last season. He is this year's Ray McDonald. He turns 28 in April.


    The Ravens could slap the franchise tag on Ray Rice, who still has plenty of mileage left at 25. (US Presswire)  
    The Ravens could slap the franchise tag on Ray Rice, who still has plenty of mileage left at 25. (US Presswire)  
    11. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens: He is a big part of what the Ravens do, and there is a chance he could get franchised. But that's not a definite. He just turned 25 in January.

    12. Robert Mathis, DE, Indianapolis Colts: He is coming off his best season but turns 31 this month and is older than some teams would like for free agents. He has improved against the run and could easily make the transition from 4-3 end to 3-4 rush 'backer.

    13. Steve Johnson, WR, Buffalo Bills: There has already been some outrageous numbers bandied about for Johnson. The Bills want him back, but the price could get high. He is a franchise tag possibility. He turns 26 in July.

    14. Cortland Finnegan, CB, Tennessee Titans: He just turned 28 this month and will be a hot commodity on the open market. It doesn't appear he's coming back to Tennessee. The Lions would seem to be a team that will make a push.

    15. Carlos Rogers, CB, San Francisco 49ers: He is the player who will benefit most from signing a one-year deal. He will cash in big after a good 2011 season for the 49ers. He isn't young, turning 31 in July.

    16. Marques Colston, WR, New Orleans Saints: The question with Colston is whether he would be as good in another system. I say yes, but he isn't a burner. He turns 29 in June.

    17. Tyvon Branch, S, Oakland Raiders: Branch led the Raiders in tackles and should have been in the Pro Bowl. He has improved in coverage as well. He turns 26 in December.

    18. Wes Welker, WR, New England Patriots: He led the league in catches, but is he a No. 1 receiver in any other system? The other issue is age. He turns 31 in June.

    19. Dashon Goldson, S, San Francisco 49ers: He is coming off his most complete season. He has always been a good run defender, but improved against the pass this season with six picks. He seemed leaner and faster. He turns 28 in September.


    Tracy Porter might prove to be too costly for the Saints. (US Presswire)  
    Tracy Porter might prove to be too costly for the Saints. (US Presswire)  
    20. Tracy Porter, CB, New Orleans Saints: He is a good, solid starting corner, and those guys get paid. The Saints probably won't be able to keep him. He turns 26 in August.

    21. Jeremy Mincey, DE, Jacksonville Jaguars: This is a try-hard player who did some good things against some good tackles last season. He isn't a speed player, but he is a solid 10-sack, good-run player. He turns 29 in December.

    22. Chris Myers. C, Houston Texans: He was one of the better centers in the NFL last season, a perfect player for their cutback schemes. He turns 31 in September.

    23. Jared Gaither, T, San Diego Chargers: The Chargers added him late when Marcus McNeil went down and he played well down the stretch. He has ability, which he showed when he was a starter for the Ravens before back troubles slowed his career. He turns 26 in March.

    24. Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Denver Broncos: He is coming off his best season, the timing of it coming perfectly in the final year of his deal. He turns 29 in November.

    25. Anthony Spencer, OLB, Dallas Cowboys: In a league desperate for pass-rush help, he will get action on the market, even though his six-sack total was a disappointment last season. He just turned 28 in January.

    26. Curtis Lofton LB, Atlanta Falcons: He's a plug linebacker who had a tendency to get lost in pass coverage at times. He's good against the run but with it being a passing league, is the value there? He turns 26 in June.

    27. Aaron Ross, CB, New York Giants: He's been a decent starting corner for two Super Bowl teams. That means something. He's a good second corner. He turns 30 in September.

    28. John Abraham, DE, Atlanta Falcons: He had 9 1/2 sacks for the Falcons in 2011 and played better late when he was entirely healthy. But he turns 34 in May. He will be hard-pressed to get a big contract because of that.

    29. Ben Grubbs, G, Baltimore Ravens: He missed six games with a toe injury this season, but started 48 straight from 2008-10. He is the other guard on the Ravens line to Marshall Yanda, but he's still a good player. He turns 28 in March.

    30. Alex Smith, QB, San Francisco: He seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 27 and turns 28 in May. He is coming off his best season with 17 touchdown passes and five interceptions. The 49ers want him back, but there's no way they franchise tag him.

    31. Reggie Wayne, WR, Indianapolis Colts: The question with Wayne is how many more years he has left to give. He can still be good for three or so, but how do you structure the contract? He turns 34 in November.

    32. Demetrius Bell, T, Buffalo Bills: After starting 16 games in 2010, he had just six starts in 2011 because of knee issues. He turns 28 in May, which means his best football is in front of him.

    33. D'Qwell Jackson, ILB, Cleveland Browns: After missing all of 2010 with a torn pectoral, he bounced back to start all 16 games last season and played at a Pro Bowl level. He turns 29 in September.

    34. Pierre Garcon, WR, Indianapolis Colts: He caught a career-high 70 passes last season without good quarterback play. He can fly, which will make him attractive to other teams. He turns 26 in August.

    35. Matt Flynn, QB, Green Bay Packers: How good is he? Does anybody really know? Is he Rob Johnson or Matt Schaub? The team that signs him better hope he's the latter. He turns 27 in June.

    36. Scott Wells, C, Green Bay Packers: He is the anchor of the Green Bay line and played well this season. He is a tough guy who battles. He just turned 31 in January.

    37. Stephen Tulloch, MLB, Detroit Lions: On a one-year deal, he had 111 tackles and two picks for the Lions. He just turned 27, so age isn't an issue. He's a steady player.

    38. Jason Jones, DT-DE, Tennessee Titans: He has flashed at times in his four seasons with the Titans, but he should be doing more. Has played both inside and outside for the Titans. He turns 26 in May, so he has time to become a really good player.

    39. Sione Pouha, NT, New York Jets: He's had more than 50 tackles each of the past two seasons on the nose for the Jets. That's impressive. But he just turned 33, which is a concern.

    40. Dwight Lowery, D, Jacksonville Jaguars: This former corner made a nice home at free safety for the Jaguars last season. He played above the level of expectations. The Jaguars want him back, but in a league where safety talent is at a minimum this former Jets player will get a nice deal. He just turned 26 in January.

    41. Evan Mathis, G, Philadelphia Eagles: Mathis signed a one-year deal with the Eagles and played well. That could earn him a nice multiyear contract. He turns 31 in November.

    42. Marshawn Lynch, RB, Seattle Seahawks: He has rejuvenated his career in Seattle after being a disappointment in Buffalo in his last two seasons. He ran for 1,204 yards last season for the Seahawks and he only turns 26 in March.

    43. Reggie Nelson, S, Cincinnati Bengals: He was a disappointment in Jacksonville, but has turned his career around with the Bengals. He's a rangy safety who has improved his tackling. He turns 29 in September.

    44. Jarrett Johnson, OLB, Baltimore Ravens: He's one of the underrated players on the Ravens defense. He isn't as flashy as some, but he gets the job done. He does turn 31 in August.

    45. Robert Meachem, WR, New Orleans Saints: He's never caught more than 45 passes in a season but has the speed teams love. He does have 20 touchdown catches in the past three seasons. He turns 28 in September.

    46. Michael Griffin, S, Tennessee Titans: His play has tailed off some this past season, but he's only 27. When he's at his best, he is a good, solid player. He's never been as good as his reputation.

    47. Jerome Simpson, WR, Cincinnati Bengals: He is a receiver who can fly. That would make him a hot commodity, but he has a legal issue hanging over his head. He just turned 26 earlier this month.

    48. Paul Soliai, DT, Miami Dolphins: The Dolphins franchised him last year and he played for that tag. It won't happen again. But he is a solid player who will get play on the market. He turns 29 in December.

    49. Mario Manningham, WR, New York Giants: The Super Bowl hero is a good player, but is he a No. 2 receiver. And how much will he cost? Did the Super Bowl make the price come up? He turns 26 in May.

    50. Pat Sims DT, Cincinnati Bengals: He has started 23 games in four seasons for the Bengals. He is mostly an anchor inside against the run. He won't bring a lot of pass rush. He turns 27 in November.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Low you got Meachem's?  That's who I would like for them to target along with Lloyd and keep Welker.
    Posted by Pats7393


    Using Football outsiders Meachem would be at a 3 yr avg. of 68% catch rate putting him right near Colston.

    This again being in some part tied to quality of QB for both Colston and Meachem.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I agreed that is a good potential argument and valid possible range.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Would also have to take into account the number of games played in a dome vs. outdoors etc... which would only enhance Brees'/Manning's etc., passing efficiency.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Faucet, I zoned out on Rodney.  I taught at Oxford Hills, rival of Farmington.  Since '98 I've been in Nor-Cal, San Jose.  Like that weather much better, and I get to be in Maine in the summers.  Back to business.  If we trade up, I'd rather try for Brockers.  Could we do it for a #1 and #2?  I wouldn't do it for two #1's.  If we stick with our picks, I'd like two best D players available.  I'd like to go for C and WR in rounds 2-4.  I'm in favor of checking out Ohio State linemen.  I'm in favor of a brute O lineman and running a little more.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Faucet, I zoned out on Rodney.  I taught at Oxford Hills, rival of Farmington.  Since '98 I've been in Nor-Cal, San Jose.  Like that weather much better, and I get to be in Maine in the summers.  Back to business.  If we trade up, I'd rather try for Brockers.  Could we do it for a #1 and #2?  I wouldn't do it for two #1's.  If we stick with our picks, I'd like two best D players available.  I'd like to go for C and WR in rounds 2-4.  I'm in favor of checking out Ohio State linemen.  I'm in favor of a brute O lineman and running a little more.
    Posted by Critter23

    No kidding?  Near South Paris/Rumford, right?  I think we used to play you guys in basketball like in preseason or winter tournaments.  I played at Mt. Blue graduated in '81.  I moved out to Orange County in '00.  Small world.

    RE; Brokers.  I prefer we spend some money and get Mario Williams and Brandon Carr.  We can then use our picks for perhaps Konz and Hightower.  Just these 4 moves would dramatically improve us.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round.  What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know? Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,

    Paige-Moss has a ton off of the field concerns, he was involved in that whole UNC mess. Plus when he declared he acted like an idiot on twitter with comments he made about the program. He was a top 15 talent projected prior to the year, and now has fallen all the way to an Undrafted type player partially because of the Torn ACL, but moreso because of his off the field concerns.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : No kidding?  Near South Paris/Rumford, right?  I think we used to play you guys in basketball like in preseason or winter tournaments.  I played at Mt. Blue graduated in '81.  I moved out to Orange County in '00.  Small world. RE; Brokers.  I prefer we spend some money and get Mario Williams and Brandon Carr.  We can then use our picks for perhaps Konz and Hightower.  Just these 4 moves would dramatically improve us.
    Posted by Faucetman

    Better yet, if HOU is stupid enough to try to sneak Foster through on a 1st round RFA tender, we use pick 31 for him, 27 for Hightower, sign Mario Williams, Brandon Carr and Brandon Lloyd.  I'm pretty sure we could afford to do all of that if we release Matt Light.  Our new starters for 2012 in a 2WR, 2TE, 1RB set.

    Offense:

    WR Brandon Lloyd
    TE Rob Gronkowski
    RT Sebastian Vollmer
    RG Brian Waters
    C  Dan Connolly
    LG Logan Mankins
    LT Nate Solder
    TE Aaron Hernandez
    WR Wes Welker
    RB Arian Foster
    QB Tom Brady

    Defense, Base 34

    RDE    Mario Williams
    NT     Vince Wilfork
    LDE    Brandon Deaderick
    SOLB  Rob Ninkovich
    MLB   Jerod Mayo
    MLB   Brandon Spikes
    WOLB Dont'a Hightower
    CB      Ras-I Dowling
    SS     Patrick Chung
    FS     Devin McCourty
    CB     Brandon Carr

    And we still have two 2ds, one 3rd and one 4th to play with.  I'd probably go get Joe Adams at 96 and have him return kicks.  Perhaps get Kevin Zeitler at 48 to have him start learning and get ready to take over at RG in 2013 or if Waters gets hurt.  Now we have pick 63 and our 4th left and who cares?

    See Bill, it isn't that hard to put together a SB roster.  You just have to spend money and draft smart.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Faucet, Paige-Moss has a ton off of the field concerns, he was involved in that whole UNC mess. Plus when he declared he acted like an idiot on twitter with comments he made about the program. He was a top 15 talent projected prior to the year, and now has fallen all the way to an Undrafted type player partially because of the Torn ACL, but moreso because of his off the field concerns.
    Posted by sportslover21

    I know.  That's why you take a late round flyer on him, sit him down a year and see if he can become a good citizen as he rehabs.  If he can't, you're cutting a 7th round pick or an UDFA so who cares?  Maybe have him spend the summer with Tim Tebow building homes in Central America or something, and I say that in a nice way.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know.  That's why you take a late round flyer on him, sit him down a year and see if he can become a good citizen as he rehabs.  If he can't, you're cutting a 7th round pick or an UDFA so who cares?  Maybe have him spend the summer with Tim Tebow building homes in Central America or something, and I say that in a nice way.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Haha alright. You seemed like you weren't sure of his possible other problems besides the Torn ACL and poor performance.

    I don't see a problem with taking a late round or UDFA chance on him, but I doubt it works out. The guy just seems like a cancer, and has questionable work ethic. Not too good components for a UDFA looking to make a name for himself in the NFL. But the talent is there.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Better yet, if HOU is stupid enough to try to sneak Foster through on a 1st round RFA tender, we use pick 31 for him, 27 for Hightower, sign Mario Williams, Brandon Carr and Brandon Lloyd.  I'm pretty sure we could afford to do all of that if we release Matt Light.  Our new starters for 2012 in a 2WR, 2TE, 1RB set. Offense: WR Brandon Lloyd TE Rob Gronkowski RT Sebastian Vollmer RG Brian Waters C  Dan Connolly LG Logan Mankins LT Nate Solder TE Aaron Hernandez WR Wes Welker RB Arian Foster QB Tom Brady Defense, Base 34 RDE    Mario Williams NT     Vince Wilfork LDE    Brandon Deaderick SOLB  Rob Ninkovich MLB   Jerod Mayo MLB   Brandon Spikes WOLB Dont'a Hightower CB      Ras-I Dowling SS     Patrick Chung FS     Devin McCourty CB     Brandon Carr And we still have two 2ds, one 3rd and one 4th to play with.  I'd probably go get Joe Adams at 96 and have him return kicks.  Perhaps get Kevin Zeitler at 48 to have him start learning and get ready to take over at RG in 2013 or if Waters gets hurt.  Now we have pick 63 and our 4th left and who cares? See Bill, it isn't that hard to put together a SB roster.  You just have to spend money and draft smart.
    Posted by Faucetman


    That would be quite the haul, but I don't see how that could be feasible cap wise. Even with Light cut, that'd still be extremely tight, and handicap us for years.

    But it is always nice to dream!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round.  What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know? Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I have a good size bias towards UNC players, I just think they're mostly overrated (same with a lot of USC kids), though I also understand that you can't lump every player into the same category... as a late round flier / URFA, they could prob do worse, but that's all I'd spend on him.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Have been following all the draft gurus with interest. Probably the maddest Australian Pats supporters and were lucky to see the Dallas and Jets games last October when on holidays. Just saw Rotoworld's 10 most overrated players in the draft. May be interested to see Michael Brockers (no 2), Vontaze Burfict, Whitney Mercilus and Jerel Worthy all players that have had some strong mention on this thread. You may be also interested in their 10 most underrated players............
    Posted by sydpat


    I do think Mercilus is highly overrated (his tape doesn't impress me at all and I've written about it), though I do think that Burfict (emotions) and Worthy (consistency) have solid NFL potential while Brockers looks like a potential impact stud to me.  Their rationale on Brockers has to be college production/experience vs. projected draft position because the skill set is there.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I do think Mercilus is highly overrated (his tape doesn't impress me at all and I've written about it), though I do think that Burfict (emotions) and Worthy (consistency) have solid NFL potential while Brockers looks like a potential impact stud to me.  Their rationale on Brockers has to be college production/experience vs. projected draft position because the skill set is there.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick:

    Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd
    Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd
    Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine
    Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning
    Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast.

    and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.  

    mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : That was the idea, got sick of the snow and women with the dreaded Maine hip disease.  Don't see that as much out here:).
    Posted by Faucetman


    I know this has nothing to do with speculative draft picks .. but what is the dreaded Maine women hip disease.. is this anatomical or social???

    PS on a draft note we cant go wrong with Bama or LSU guys.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Don't know if Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 Tennessee has been talked about but this kid has some impressive numbers considering he played mostly DT this season.  in 2010 as a DE 48 tackels 5 sacks four pass breakups and 11 TFL.  He moved this season to DT, versitile big prospect (here it comes, McGinest comparison lol). He's projected as 4th rnd prospect, if he does well in LB drills this could be a kid BB targets 3rd/4th. 
    Posted by Pats7393


    love the McGinest comparison.. he was the linchpin to the PAts SB  defenses. That size / speed qualities just doesnt fall out of the trees.  Does he have the football IQ Wllly had?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick: Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast. and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.   mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
    Posted by Pats7393


    Yeah, that's prob an accurate projection of Johnson. Good size kid with a good motor, could be somebody that sticks late in the draft or as an URFA.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : love the McGinest comparison.. he was the linchpin to the PAts SB  defenses. That size / speed qualities just doesnt fall out of the trees.  Does he have the football IQ Wllly had?
    Posted by mgraham


    That's the million dollar question!  Willie was a very special guy, I remember an interview he did when BB was looking at the LB position and Willie explained to BB what he was seing and to give that assingment to him and BB did and it became a staple of their D. 

    Can't remember exactly what it was but was cool to hear Willie breakdown what the OLB role was and how he helped BB evolve it to.

    Don't know if you can ever find a guy with his IQ but I take 80% of that IQ that still pretty damn good.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Yeah, that's prob an accurate projection of Johnson. Good size kid with a good motor, could be somebody that sticks late in the draft or as an URFA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    So basically another Deadrick but with better speed and moter.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick: Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast. and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.   mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
    Posted by Pats7393


    The problem Pats is that once you get out of the 2nd the odds of finding a top end pass rusher that can make an impact diminish greatly. So while nice that the value is better and some of these guys show promise there is a good reason they are considered day 3 picks while others are considered day 1 picks.

    Value or not I'd rather take a chance on fixing a position of need earlier in the draft with a Mercilus then later in the draft with someone like Jackson. You just have a higher chance of success.

    Don't forget with the Willie comparisons on guys, Willie was a #4 overall pick
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : The problem Pats is that once you get out of the 2nd the odds of finding a top end pass rusher that can make an impact diminish greatly. So while nice that the value is better and some of these guys show promise there is a good reason they are considered day 3 picks while others are considered day 1 picks. Value or not I'd rather take a chance on fixing a position of need earlier in the draft with a Mercilus then later in the draft with someone like Jackson. You just have a higher chance of success. Don't forget with the Willie comparisons on guys, Willie was a #4 overall pick
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE

    My thinking, doesn't matter who they draft they probably don't start unless you go up and get Couples.  The other guys in BB D probably don't start and are part of a rotation.  That's what I mean, a guy in the 3rd round who can come in for certain situations while he EARNS the trust to be a starter on D will get probably as much playing time as a guy who's draft late 1st or 2nd.  Neighther guy probably starts so if the 3rd rndr has the tools but needs to be polished I'm ok because he'll play a similar role as a the late 1st/2nd rndr.  Just my opinion on the OLB spots.

    If Malik Jackson does well at the combine (including interviews breaking down tape) this guy is a big dude that has experience dropping back into coverage. 3rd rnd I take him
     
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