***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Faucet, I zoned out on Rodney.  I taught at Oxford Hills, rival of Farmington.  Since '98 I've been in Nor-Cal, San Jose.  Like that weather much better, and I get to be in Maine in the summers.  Back to business.  If we trade up, I'd rather try for Brockers.  Could we do it for a #1 and #2?  I wouldn't do it for two #1's.  If we stick with our picks, I'd like two best D players available.  I'd like to go for C and WR in rounds 2-4.  I'm in favor of checking out Ohio State linemen.  I'm in favor of a brute O lineman and running a little more.
    Posted by Critter23

    No kidding?  Near South Paris/Rumford, right?  I think we used to play you guys in basketball like in preseason or winter tournaments.  I played at Mt. Blue graduated in '81.  I moved out to Orange County in '00.  Small world.

    RE; Brokers.  I prefer we spend some money and get Mario Williams and Brandon Carr.  We can then use our picks for perhaps Konz and Hightower.  Just these 4 moves would dramatically improve us.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round.  What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know? Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,

    Paige-Moss has a ton off of the field concerns, he was involved in that whole UNC mess. Plus when he declared he acted like an idiot on twitter with comments he made about the program. He was a top 15 talent projected prior to the year, and now has fallen all the way to an Undrafted type player partially because of the Torn ACL, but moreso because of his off the field concerns.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : No kidding?  Near South Paris/Rumford, right?  I think we used to play you guys in basketball like in preseason or winter tournaments.  I played at Mt. Blue graduated in '81.  I moved out to Orange County in '00.  Small world. RE; Brokers.  I prefer we spend some money and get Mario Williams and Brandon Carr.  We can then use our picks for perhaps Konz and Hightower.  Just these 4 moves would dramatically improve us.
    Posted by Faucetman

    Better yet, if HOU is stupid enough to try to sneak Foster through on a 1st round RFA tender, we use pick 31 for him, 27 for Hightower, sign Mario Williams, Brandon Carr and Brandon Lloyd.  I'm pretty sure we could afford to do all of that if we release Matt Light.  Our new starters for 2012 in a 2WR, 2TE, 1RB set.

    Offense:

    WR Brandon Lloyd
    TE Rob Gronkowski
    RT Sebastian Vollmer
    RG Brian Waters
    C  Dan Connolly
    LG Logan Mankins
    LT Nate Solder
    TE Aaron Hernandez
    WR Wes Welker
    RB Arian Foster
    QB Tom Brady

    Defense, Base 34

    RDE    Mario Williams
    NT     Vince Wilfork
    LDE    Brandon Deaderick
    SOLB  Rob Ninkovich
    MLB   Jerod Mayo
    MLB   Brandon Spikes
    WOLB Dont'a Hightower
    CB      Ras-I Dowling
    SS     Patrick Chung
    FS     Devin McCourty
    CB     Brandon Carr

    And we still have two 2ds, one 3rd and one 4th to play with.  I'd probably go get Joe Adams at 96 and have him return kicks.  Perhaps get Kevin Zeitler at 48 to have him start learning and get ready to take over at RG in 2013 or if Waters gets hurt.  Now we have pick 63 and our 4th left and who cares?

    See Bill, it isn't that hard to put together a SB roster.  You just have to spend money and draft smart.

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Faucet, Paige-Moss has a ton off of the field concerns, he was involved in that whole UNC mess. Plus when he declared he acted like an idiot on twitter with comments he made about the program. He was a top 15 talent projected prior to the year, and now has fallen all the way to an Undrafted type player partially because of the Torn ACL, but moreso because of his off the field concerns.
    Posted by sportslover21

    I know.  That's why you take a late round flyer on him, sit him down a year and see if he can become a good citizen as he rehabs.  If he can't, you're cutting a 7th round pick or an UDFA so who cares?  Maybe have him spend the summer with Tim Tebow building homes in Central America or something, and I say that in a nice way.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know.  That's why you take a late round flyer on him, sit him down a year and see if he can become a good citizen as he rehabs.  If he can't, you're cutting a 7th round pick or an UDFA so who cares?  Maybe have him spend the summer with Tim Tebow building homes in Central America or something, and I say that in a nice way.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Haha alright. You seemed like you weren't sure of his possible other problems besides the Torn ACL and poor performance.

    I don't see a problem with taking a late round or UDFA chance on him, but I doubt it works out. The guy just seems like a cancer, and has questionable work ethic. Not too good components for a UDFA looking to make a name for himself in the NFL. But the talent is there.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Better yet, if HOU is stupid enough to try to sneak Foster through on a 1st round RFA tender, we use pick 31 for him, 27 for Hightower, sign Mario Williams, Brandon Carr and Brandon Lloyd.  I'm pretty sure we could afford to do all of that if we release Matt Light.  Our new starters for 2012 in a 2WR, 2TE, 1RB set. Offense: WR Brandon Lloyd TE Rob Gronkowski RT Sebastian Vollmer RG Brian Waters C  Dan Connolly LG Logan Mankins LT Nate Solder TE Aaron Hernandez WR Wes Welker RB Arian Foster QB Tom Brady Defense, Base 34 RDE    Mario Williams NT     Vince Wilfork LDE    Brandon Deaderick SOLB  Rob Ninkovich MLB   Jerod Mayo MLB   Brandon Spikes WOLB Dont'a Hightower CB      Ras-I Dowling SS     Patrick Chung FS     Devin McCourty CB     Brandon Carr And we still have two 2ds, one 3rd and one 4th to play with.  I'd probably go get Joe Adams at 96 and have him return kicks.  Perhaps get Kevin Zeitler at 48 to have him start learning and get ready to take over at RG in 2013 or if Waters gets hurt.  Now we have pick 63 and our 4th left and who cares? See Bill, it isn't that hard to put together a SB roster.  You just have to spend money and draft smart.
    Posted by Faucetman


    That would be quite the haul, but I don't see how that could be feasible cap wise. Even with Light cut, that'd still be extremely tight, and handicap us for years.

    But it is always nice to dream!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : It's good we are discussing these late round/UDFA types because every year we get one who sticks.  BB does tend to favor the conversion types later in the draft or in F/A.  We had Fletcher undrafted and TBC in the 7th round.  What are your thoughts on Donte Page-Moss?  He has all the physical attributes, 6-4, 260, 4.67.  He started out strong at North Carolina his sophomore year with 49 tackles, 13.5 for loss and 7 sacks.  Then heading into 2011 he lost his job to Keenan Martin and didn't start a game although he played in all 13 games and still managed 29 tackles, 4 for loss and 2 sacks.  He then tore his ACL.  I didn't learn why he lost his job, anyone know? Surprising to everyone, he declared for the draft as a junior with a torn ACL.  I guess he was frustrated at his lack of playing time and perhaps his situation at UNC soured.  Prior to the 2011 season this kid was considered a possible first round pick but now I don't think anyone would spend higher than a 6th on him and he could go undrafted.  Since he will start the season on the PUP he will be a tough evaluation.  He also had some legal problems in the past but I don't know the details.  This could be someone you take late and hide on your PUP list for a season.  Huge reward potential with little to no risk especially if you get him as a free agent.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I have a good size bias towards UNC players, I just think they're mostly overrated (same with a lot of USC kids), though I also understand that you can't lump every player into the same category... as a late round flier / URFA, they could prob do worse, but that's all I'd spend on him.
     
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    Have been following all the draft gurus with interest. Probably the maddest Australian Pats supporters and were lucky to see the Dallas and Jets games last October when on holidays. Just saw Rotoworld's 10 most overrated players in the draft. May be interested to see Michael Brockers (no 2), Vontaze Burfict, Whitney Mercilus and Jerel Worthy all players that have had some strong mention on this thread. You may be also interested in their 10 most underrated players............
    Posted by sydpat


    I do think Mercilus is highly overrated (his tape doesn't impress me at all and I've written about it), though I do think that Burfict (emotions) and Worthy (consistency) have solid NFL potential while Brockers looks like a potential impact stud to me.  Their rationale on Brockers has to be college production/experience vs. projected draft position because the skill set is there.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I do think Mercilus is highly overrated (his tape doesn't impress me at all and I've written about it), though I do think that Burfict (emotions) and Worthy (consistency) have solid NFL potential while Brockers looks like a potential impact stud to me.  Their rationale on Brockers has to be college production/experience vs. projected draft position because the skill set is there.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick:

    Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd
    Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd
    Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine
    Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning
    Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast.

    and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.  

    mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : That was the idea, got sick of the snow and women with the dreaded Maine hip disease.  Don't see that as much out here:).
    Posted by Faucetman


    I know this has nothing to do with speculative draft picks .. but what is the dreaded Maine women hip disease.. is this anatomical or social???

    PS on a draft note we cant go wrong with Bama or LSU guys.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Don't know if Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 Tennessee has been talked about but this kid has some impressive numbers considering he played mostly DT this season.  in 2010 as a DE 48 tackels 5 sacks four pass breakups and 11 TFL.  He moved this season to DT, versitile big prospect (here it comes, McGinest comparison lol). He's projected as 4th rnd prospect, if he does well in LB drills this could be a kid BB targets 3rd/4th. 
    Posted by Pats7393


    love the McGinest comparison.. he was the linchpin to the PAts SB  defenses. That size / speed qualities just doesnt fall out of the trees.  Does he have the football IQ Wllly had?
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick: Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast. and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.   mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
    Posted by Pats7393


    Yeah, that's prob an accurate projection of Johnson. Good size kid with a good motor, could be somebody that sticks late in the draft or as an URFA.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : love the McGinest comparison.. he was the linchpin to the PAts SB  defenses. That size / speed qualities just doesnt fall out of the trees.  Does he have the football IQ Wllly had?
    Posted by mgraham


    That's the million dollar question!  Willie was a very special guy, I remember an interview he did when BB was looking at the LB position and Willie explained to BB what he was seing and to give that assingment to him and BB did and it became a staple of their D. 

    Can't remember exactly what it was but was cool to hear Willie breakdown what the OLB role was and how he helped BB evolve it to.

    Don't know if you can ever find a guy with his IQ but I take 80% of that IQ that still pretty damn good.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Yeah, that's prob an accurate projection of Johnson. Good size kid with a good motor, could be somebody that sticks late in the draft or as an URFA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    So basically another Deadrick but with better speed and moter.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I know this might sound a bit crazy because of the grades of these guys but I agree, right now I preffer to draft these guys based on value of pick: Vinny Curry 6'3" 265 2nd rnd Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 2nd rnd if knee is 100%, if not 5th/6th rnd Jake Bequette 6'5" 265 3rd rnd he might rise all the way into the 2nd rnd after combine Malik Jackson 6'5" 270 4th/5th He needs to prove a few things including conditioning Jacquies Smith 6'2" 255 4th I don't think he'll be in BB's wish list because of height but he plays fast. and what do you all think about Max Holloway, Boston College? 6'2" 242 6th or 7th round?  This could be one of those blue collar guys that will do anything and play hard to earn a spot.   mb you are a Notre Dame fan, what do you think of Ethan Johnson.  I didn't really pay much attention to the Irish this season.  6'4" 300lbs, projected as a mid to late rounds.  Has played both 34 DE and 43 DT.  Adding depth and hope he's a diamond on the rough?
    Posted by Pats7393


    The problem Pats is that once you get out of the 2nd the odds of finding a top end pass rusher that can make an impact diminish greatly. So while nice that the value is better and some of these guys show promise there is a good reason they are considered day 3 picks while others are considered day 1 picks.

    Value or not I'd rather take a chance on fixing a position of need earlier in the draft with a Mercilus then later in the draft with someone like Jackson. You just have a higher chance of success.

    Don't forget with the Willie comparisons on guys, Willie was a #4 overall pick
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : The problem Pats is that once you get out of the 2nd the odds of finding a top end pass rusher that can make an impact diminish greatly. So while nice that the value is better and some of these guys show promise there is a good reason they are considered day 3 picks while others are considered day 1 picks. Value or not I'd rather take a chance on fixing a position of need earlier in the draft with a Mercilus then later in the draft with someone like Jackson. You just have a higher chance of success. Don't forget with the Willie comparisons on guys, Willie was a #4 overall pick
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE

    My thinking, doesn't matter who they draft they probably don't start unless you go up and get Couples.  The other guys in BB D probably don't start and are part of a rotation.  That's what I mean, a guy in the 3rd round who can come in for certain situations while he EARNS the trust to be a starter on D will get probably as much playing time as a guy who's draft late 1st or 2nd.  Neighther guy probably starts so if the 3rd rndr has the tools but needs to be polished I'm ok because he'll play a similar role as a the late 1st/2nd rndr.  Just my opinion on the OLB spots.

    If Malik Jackson does well at the combine (including interviews breaking down tape) this guy is a big dude that has experience dropping back into coverage. 3rd rnd I take him
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** :
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : The problem Pats is that once you get out of the 2nd the odds of finding a top end pass rusher that can make an impact diminish greatly. So while nice that the value is better and some of these guys show promise there is a good reason they are considered day 3 picks while others are considered day 1 picks. Value or not I'd rather take a chance on fixing a position of need earlier in the draft with a Mercilus then later in the draft with someone like Jackson. You just have a higher chance of success. Don't forget with the Willie comparisons on guys, Willie was a #4 overall pick Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE My thinking, doesn't matter who they draft they probably don't start unless you go up and get Couples.  The other guys in BB D probably don't start and are part of a rotation.  That's what I mean, a guy in the 3rd round who can come in for certain situations while he EARNS the trust to be a starter on D will get probably as much playing time as a guy who's draft late 1st or 2nd.  Neighther guy probably starts so if the 3rd rndr has the tools but needs to be polished I'm ok because he'll play a similar role as a the late 1st/2nd rndr.  Just my opinion on the OLB spots. If Malik Jackson does well at the combine (including interviews breaking down tape) this guy is a big dude that has experience dropping back into coverage. 3rd rnd I take him
    Posted by Pats7393


    but the same problem still persists. You are right the first year you might see limited reps for players but the years after? 1st-2nd rounders have a higher long term success rate as starters then 3rd or lower. I forget where I read the %'s but it was something to the tune of 50% chance to find a starting caliber pass rusher (at some point in their career) in the 1st, 33% in the 2nd, 11% in the 3rd , 4% in the 4th, then from there just cut the % in half for every round after.

    They might not be polished but it still presents the problems that the odds of finding a starting caliber pass rusher drastically reduces after each round. This has been shown time and time again with the Pats. Here's a list of LB's drafted by the Pats past the 2nd that have had at least 3 years since being drafted (time enough to show if they have talent to be starting caliber):

    Tryone McKenzie
    Shawn Crable
    Bo Ruud
    Justin Rodgers
    Oscar Lua
    Jeremy Mincy
    Ryan Claridge

    and that's just back to 05'

    Point is that a consistent pass rusher has been a need for years and still was a need this past year. Carter was great but the pass rush was inconsistent most of the time. Now my feelings on taking a potential diamond in the rough depending on what they do in FA but right now I want the best odds possible to find a pass rusher. To me that means you grab one between 25-50 (ie Mercilus, Curry, Branch, Perry, maybe Hightower depending on combine)
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I have a good size bias towards UNC players, I just think they're mostly overrated (same with a lot of USC kids), though I also understand that you can't lump every player into the same category... as a late round flier / URFA, they could prob do worse, but that's all I'd spend on him.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    Me too. 7th round max, assuming we get a 7th rounder.  I expect we will address rush OLB by re-signing Mark Anderson and using a higher pick, so anyone we get late, such as the kid you were talking about is going to end up on the PS or PUP list to start.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I do think Mercilus is highly overrated (his tape doesn't impress me at all and I've written about it), though I do think that Burfict (emotions) and Worthy (consistency) have solid NFL potential while Brockers looks like a potential impact stud to me.  Their rationale on Brockers has to be college production/experience vs. projected draft position because the skill set is there.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I agree on Mercilus just based on his level of competition and the teams who he got his most sacks against.

    3- Indiana
    2- Arizona State
    1.5 -Northwestern
    1.5 -Penn State
    1.5 - UCLA
    1- Arkansas State
    1- Western Michigan
    1- Michigan
    1- Wisconsin (this one impresses)
    1- Minnesota
    0- South Dakota State
    0- Purdue

    As for Brockers, I like him and agree he could be a beast.  But do we really think we can get him for anything less than our 27/48 and that is best case?  I don't.  It would cost 27/31 to get him and even then who knows?

    So, I'd rather go get Mario Williams and give him a Wilfork type deal and conserve those picks.  I would then use pick 31 to get Arian Foster if HOU is stupid enough to only restrict him.

    I've thought about this Foster thing for quite sometime.  With Brady turning 35 we need to not expose him as much and the best way to do that, other than having an impeccable OL, is to give him a solid running game.  Outside of A. Peterson and C. Johnson, RBs are fairly inexpensive.  I bet we could get Foster for an average cap charge (first 3 years) of about $6MM.  Cutting Matt Light would clear $5MM of it.

    Having a solid running game allows you to keep your defense off the field longer and that alone helps a suspect defense.  You improve Brady's play-action, you limit his throwing reps you can take over and control a game late.  Foster is ubber elite, his career 4.7 ypc is a full yard better than we got out of BJGE last year.  He had 26 TD rushing the ball the past 2 seasons compared to 24 for BJGE.  At 25 he's a year younger than BJGE.

    Foster is a also complete back.  He's equally deadly as a receiver:
     
    2010:  66 catches for 604, 9.2, 2 TD 
    2011:  53 catches for 617, 11.6, 2 TD 

    Talk about an ingredient that has been missing, a RB coming out of the backfield or catching screen passes.  We haven't had that since Faulk got hurt.  Screens to RBs used to be a huge part of our game.  Screens are typically safe passes.  Brady excels at them, without having a screen to RB game, Brady had 12 INTs.  Look what our RBs did in the passing game last year. PATHETIC!!

    Woodhead 18/31 - 157 - 8.7 - 0 TD
    BJGE - 9/13 - 159 - 17.7 - 0 TD (he had the 1 long 53 yard play)
    Faulk 7/9 - 34 - 4.9 - 0 TD
    Ridley - 3/5 - 13 - 4.3 - 0 TD

    Let's compare Foster to our RBs in RECEIVING 2011.  And this is Foster in 13 games.

    53/617/11.2/2  Foster
    37/363/9.8/0   All Patriot RBs

    Now let's compare Foster in RUSHING past two years compared to the Pats in 2011 since Foster missed 3 games in 2011.

    2010:  327/1,616/4.9/16 Foster (16 games)
    2011:  278/1,224/4.4/10 Foster (13 games)
    2011:  377/1,573/4.2/14  All Patriot backs (BJGE, Faulk, Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen)

    Who wouldn't give up pick 31 to land Foster after looking at this?  Let's get Mario Williams and Brandon Carr in free agency.  We move DC to FS.  We use pick 27 on Hightower, resign Anderson.  Love is exclusive rights so he's coming back.  Our D is set and we've added a power run game that can also catch and we just got out of the first round.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : but the same problem still persists. You are right the first year you might see limited reps for players but the years after? 1st-2nd rounders have a higher long term success rate as starters then 3rd or lower. I forget where I read the %'s but it was something to the tune of 50% chance to find a starting caliber pass rusher (at some point in their career) in the 1st, 33% in the 2nd, 11% in the 3rd , 4% in the 4th, then from there just cut the % in half for every round after. They might not be polished but it still presents the problems that the odds of finding a starting caliber pass rusher drastically reduces after each round. This has been shown time and time again with the Pats. Here's a list of LB's drafted by the Pats past the 2nd that have had at least 3 years since being drafted (time enough to show if they have talent to be starting caliber): Tryone McKenzie Shawn Crable Bo Ruud Justin Rodgers Oscar Lua Jeremy Mincy Ryan Claridge and that's just back to 05' Point is that a consistent pass rusher has been a need for years and still was a need this past year. Carter was great but the pass rush was inconsistent most of the time. Now my feelings on taking a potential diamond in the rough depending on what they do in FA but right now I want the best odds possible to find a pass rusher. To me that means you grab one between 25-50 (ie Mercilus, Curry, Branch, Perry, maybe Hightower depending on combine)
    Posted by PatsEng


    Guess that's just it, I'm not sold yet that the 2nd rnd guys are so much better projection than 3rd and 4th round guys.  I'm not seeing yet how they are so much better.

    Haven't found yet the barwin, reed or sheard.

    I'm actually liking two guys and I'm kicking my own a$$ because they are projected as 4th rndrs.

    Jake Bequette and Malik Jackson. 

    Could Curry or Jones become the Sheard of this year?  If I had to choose from those two I take Jones if his knee is a 100% if not I take Bequette then Jackson.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    WTH!!! I just actually noticed the date and noticed we're still a week away from the combine.  My list of players to try to watch is too long.

    So lucky to work from home that I don't miss any of it, during those days I decline any conf call during combine times.  What are they thinking trying to get me on a call, I got scouting to do damn it! lol
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : but the same problem still persists. You are right the first year you might see limited reps for players but the years after? 1st-2nd rounders have a higher long term success rate as starters then 3rd or lower. I forget where I read the %'s but it was something to the tune of 50% chance to find a starting caliber pass rusher (at some point in their career) in the 1st, 33% in the 2nd, 11% in the 3rd , 4% in the 4th, then from there just cut the % in half for every round after. They might not be polished but it still presents the problems that the odds of finding a starting caliber pass rusher drastically reduces after each round. This has been shown time and time again with the Pats. Here's a list of LB's drafted by the Pats past the 2nd that have had at least 3 years since being drafted (time enough to show if they have talent to be starting caliber): Tryone McKenzie Shawn Crable Bo Ruud Justin Rodgers Oscar Lua Jeremy Mincy Ryan Claridge and that's just back to 05' Point is that a consistent pass rusher has been a need for years and still was a need this past year. Carter was great but the pass rush was inconsistent most of the time. Now my feelings on taking a potential diamond in the rough depending on what they do in FA but right now I want the best odds possible to find a pass rusher. To me that means you grab one between 25-50 (ie Mercilus, Curry, Branch, Perry, maybe Hightower depending on combine)
    Posted by PatsEng


    Bet the Pats would have liked to have had him back last season...
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Eating lunch, and for some reason not enjoying my tuna sandwish so I thought what if the Pats had the ugliest draft for us fans and thought I try to put a mock draft that would make us all scratch our heads and just say "In Bill we trust, I think"

    27 - Cordy Gleen OG 6'6" 346 lbs I'm not sure this one is ugly enough, this guy is a stud and would be a starting OG day one also adds depth at RT

    31 - Traded

    48 - Lamar Miller RB 5'11" 212 lbs a RB when other bigger needs are not drafted yet

    63 - Brandon Boykin CB 5'09 183 undersized, talented but undersized CB

    85 - Ladarius Green TE 6'6" 237 still no OLB or DE?

    4th - Audie Cole ILB 6'4" 239 

    I depressed already and this is not real lol
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Better yet, if HOU is stupid enough to try to sneak Foster through on a 1st round RFA tender, we use pick 31 for him, 27 for Hightower, sign Mario Williams, Brandon Carr and Brandon Lloyd.  I'm pretty sure we could afford to do all of that if we release Matt Light.  Our new starters for 2012 in a 2WR, 2TE, 1RB set. Offense: WR Brandon Lloyd TE Rob Gronkowski RT Sebastian Vollmer RG Brian Waters C  Dan Connolly LG Logan Mankins LT Nate Solder TE Aaron Hernandez WR Wes Welker RB Arian Foster QB Tom Brady Defense, Base 34 RDE    Mario Williams NT     Vince Wilfork LDE    Brandon Deaderick SOLB  Rob Ninkovich MLB   Jerod Mayo MLB   Brandon Spikes WOLB Dont'a Hightower CB      Ras-I Dowling SS     Patrick Chung FS     Devin McCourty CB     Brandon Carr And we still have two 2ds, one 3rd and one 4th to play with.  I'd probably go get Joe Adams at 96 and have him return kicks.  Perhaps get Kevin Zeitler at 48 to have him start learning and get ready to take over at RG in 2013 or if Waters gets hurt.  Now we have pick 63 and our 4th left and who cares? See Bill, it isn't that hard to put together a SB roster.  You just have to spend money and draft smart.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Why would you release Matt Light when he and Waters were your best linemen last year? As well as Solder did as a rookie last year he was lifted in the SB for getting his rear-end whooped. Don't want to hear but he was playing on the right business , he played there all year. He's still a pup. Then you also downgrade your backup tackle spot by instead of having Solder who can swing you drop to Cannon who Scar has been on record as saying has done well but has a long way to go.

    So the way you have the line in your scenario it is weaker than 2011 at both LT ,C, and backup swing tackle.

    Then you go big for Foster when we don't even run the ball consistently and no I do not think that is a product of the quality of the running backs. Foster has only played 16 games once so far in 3 seasons. Foster in 2011 did no better than Benny in 2010, only more opportunities. Can Foster get this hurry up offense? This past season we barely ran and barely screened. Is McD suddenly going back to that? McD was more spread pass happy than BO. The Pats just spent two decent picks on backs who did not get a shot at a normal offseason and you already want to ignore them and go get someone new? They are still babies and we don't know what the Pats have their yet really.

    Now you switch the Pats back to 3-4 and go after Mario. But instead of playing him at OLB you move him to DE? He just started a season last year averaging a sack a game until he got injured playing OLB in a 3-4. The Patriots were always speculated to transition Julius Peppers to OLB if they had gone after him and he has the same measurables as Mario basically. Mario doesn't fit the preferred 3-4 DE measuarble the Pats look for.

    You move McCourtey to FS on the permanent when that move was simply desperation because the Pats couldn't solidify the safety spot and the backend was a mess. I think that's the wrong catalyst for making such a move permanent. McCourtey will be fine again with a solidified saftey position and backend and has already proven to play at a high level when those two things are in place.

    Faucet I would rather you find a way to get something like the following to work out financially.

    Offense:

    WR Take 2 options (Brandon Lloyd, Jackson, Colston, drafted WR)
    TE Rob Gronkowski/3rd TE
    RT Sebastian Vollmer/Solder
    RG Brian Waters/Cannon
    C  Koppen/Dan Connolly
    LG Logan Mankins/Cannon
    LT Matt Light/Solder
    TE Aaron Hernandez/3rd TE
    WR Wes Welker/Edelman
    RB Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead
    QB Tom Brady

    Defense, Base 34

    RDE    Fletcher Cox or some other drafted DE of choice
    NT     Vince Wilfork
    LDE    Kendall Langford or other FA
    SOLB  Rob Ninkovich (drafted option hightower, Curry, etc)
    MLB   Jerod Mayo
    MLB   Brandon Spikes
    WOLB Mario Williams
    CB      Ras-I Dowling
    SS     Patrick Chung
    FS     Take 2 options (Tyvon Branch, Huff, Nelson, Barron, IIoka, H. Smith)
    CB     Devin McCourty

    Just my opinion. Feel free to hack away at it. :) ...and I am pretty sure it all couldn't be done financially anyway but fun to dream.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Bet the Pats would have liked to have had him back last season...
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I bet they would too. But goes to show you between all the 3+ round LB sized players they have taken and UDFA's they have signed over the years (not including FA's from other teams UDFA's) basically only Mincey have shown any kind of starting caliber ability. I wouldn't say Guyton has starting caliber ability and though I love Nin he was playing for other teams before he came here (actually much like what Mincey did). It's just not good practice to rely on 3+ round picks to provide any type of presence off the edge. You have to get them early and the closer you are to the #1 pick generally the more likely you are to hit on an impact edge rusher
     
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