***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I'm so disheartened I used an emoticon^
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Won't say I don't agree with the offer but right now here's my wish list in order: Mario Williams OLB/DE/DT Adam Carriker DE/DT  (I think Pats might be able to sign both but would not be able to sign any WR) Reggie Nelson FS Robert Meachem WR ($$ is only reason over Wallace), Meachem is a deep threat WR with nice hands and most likely not the price tag of Wallace. Ahmad Brooks OLB Really like Brooks, can take over one side and other OLB combination of Carter/Nink/Anderson/rookie Brandon Lloyd WR with how familiar he is with the O he should have no problems Mike Wallace WR (1st rndr, and $$ that won't be available for players like Williams and Carriker I put him low on wish list) Mario Haggan OLB/DE only if Carter or Anderson go some where else.
    Posted by Pats7393

    I love the free agent list.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : PE, Can you provide detail on Jeffery's character issues? 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    He was ejected from a bowl game against Neb for fighting (a bowl game!)

    He has weight issues. Though this might not seem like a character issue, if he's eating his way out of a top 10 spot imo there is something more then just gaining a couple of pounds

    Against weaker DB's or if the play in't in his direction he's a very lazy route runner and will round off routes if he doesn't feel like going full pace. He's not a very polished route runner because it's been reported he does bare minimum in practice relying mainly on his physical abilities to outperform the coverage.

    I've listen to interviews he has given and he has a diva type of attitude which is reflected in his reluctance to layout for the ball or go across the middle.

    He doesn't always fight through press and doesn't give much effort blocking for a runner.

    He has TO type of talent but it's mainly his attitude and laziness that stick out the most to me. Like I said just listening to interviews he reminds me of Bryants mentality (immature).

    It might not be arrests but these are big on-field concerns for me frankly. I'd rather have a Welker or Brown anyday then a TO or Bryant. Even though Jeffery is clearly the better player I'd rather have Sanu because imo he fits better with this team.

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Thnx for the confirmation IQ. PE, Maybe I should have said can't make the throw consistantly? Anybody here on the draft Crick train? Also just from watching BB in the past drafts which pick will he be trading? 27 or 31? because we all know that he's trading one of them....Watch for the announcement that the Patriots are going to sign Johnny Lee Higgins,he was a late season tryout and if he's healthy they won't draft a wr.They already have resigned two WR's Britt Davis and Fresh Prince Underwood...MB how many more comments on this thread for the record of most on any one topic? Also Alshon is a dog,he doesn't show up for every down! I'd rather they draft T.A. Hilton!
    Posted by sportsbozo1

    Hrm Higgins wouldn't surprise me as competition for Branch as the #4 WR but I doubt that would prevent them for going after Lloyd and looking towards the draft for a WR. Davis and Underwood would be #5/6/PS WR's (break in case of emergency)

    As for Crick much like Worthy, Crick was a hot name going into the season. Inconsistent play started to hurt his stock (much like Worthy). He performed well in 09' next to Suh and had a good end of the season in 10' once he got use to playing without Suh. The problem was he started the season slow again this year and was inconsistent from series to series yet alone game to game. Then he tore his peck and it ended his season which prevented another strong push at the end of the season like in 10'. If he's there in the late 3rd I'd take a long look at his medical records and might grab him right there. If he's there in the late 4th he's more then worth grabbing even if he gets redshirted for a year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    RE: Alshon Jeffery.

    Thanks for the feedback, all.  Seems like a pretty polarizing kid as there is a lot of conflicting data out there.  He didn't seem like much of a diva to me when watching a few interviews... In fact, he kinda sounded Patriot like talking about no "I" in team, and you have to play well in all three phases of the game to win games and how it's all about doing what you have to do to win.

    I look forward to watching some more thorough game tape vs. watching highlights only to get a clearer opinion of him on the field.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Thnx for the confirmation IQ. PE, Maybe I should have said can't make the throw consistantly? Anybody here on the draft Crick train? Also just from watching BB in the past drafts which pick will he be trading? 27 or 31? because we all know that he's trading one of them....Watch for the announcement that the Patriots are going to sign Johnny Lee Higgins,he was a late season tryout and if he's healthy they won't draft a wr.They already have resigned two WR's Britt Davis and Fresh Prince Underwood...MB how many more comments on this thread for the record of most on any one topic? Also Alshon is a dog,he doesn't show up for every down! I'd rather they draft T.A. Hilton!
    Posted by sportsbozo1


    Good question, would prob be, "Who do we take in Rd 1?".
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    mbeaulieu07, Reluctantly I admit to myself, it is once again time to discuss the draft with our resident draft guru/ enthusiast/ nut, but since you started this thread in July of last year I hope you can understand how I must wait just a little longer for the results of the combine to come back so I can see the raw data first. These draft conversations will be bitter sweet considering the circumstances, it seems we have some holes to fill.  Luckily BB has stockpiled draft picks for a rainy day like this, lets hope we cash in big time. Regards
    Posted by wozzy


    Welcome back to the pahty, mang.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Guys, check out the above link posted on another thread.  The Pats do have about $25MM to play with and Welker would eat almost $10MM of it. 


    WOW, thanks for posting that link.  The Steelers are in absolute cap "Super Max High Security Prison" at nearly $150MM!!  They are going to have their hands full keeping their top F/As and getting down to the $128MM range.  I don't see any way possible for them to extend Mike Wallace as they have 3 starters on their OL to deal with plus starting CB William Gay.  They will have to restrict Wallace and probably can't match any decent offer.  I've beaten the Wallace horse absolutely senseless, pummeling him over and over until his brain matter splattered all over these pages (sorry for the graphics) these past 24 hours so I won't bring it up again as long as I get credit for the idea if we actually move on it, lol.

    But William Gay interests me.  He isn't elite but man he has been steady.  The guy has played in every game since being drafted in 2007.  He's only 27 too.  He isn't real flashy, not much of a ball hawk but he was credited with 61 tackles, 2 INTs and 13 PD last year.  He could be a decent insurance policy if Dowling can't stay healthy or we move McCourty to FS and the money shouldn't be bad, plus Addition by Subtraction.  I keep preaching that.  Force the Steelers to burn a draft pick or other resources to replace him.

    Since Free Agency starts March 13, we really should be focusing most of our efforts on studying this since we have to wait until late April for the draft and our needs hopefully will be very much different by then as it well for a lot of teams. 

    Guys who aren't free agents are going to get cut as cap cutting measures.  It is so hard to keep up with our team let alone 31 others.  But I will predict there will be some shocking players on the market that nobody is talking about today.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Here's a link. http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html Posted by tartarus12 Guys, check out the above link posted on another thread.  The Pats do have about $25MM to play with and Welker would eat almost $10MM of it.  WOW, thanks for posting that link.   The Steelers are in absolute cap "Super Max High Security Prison" at nearly $150MM!!  They are going to have their hands full keeping their top F/As and getting down to the $128MM range.  I don't see any way possible for them to extend Mike Wallace as they have 3 starters on their OL to deal with plus starting CB William Gay.  They will have to restrict Wallace and probably can't match any decent offer.  I've beaten the Wallace horse absolutely senseless, pummeling him over and over until his brain matter splattered all over these pages (sorry for the graphics) these past 24 hours so I won't bring it up again as long as I get credit for the idea if we actually move on it, lol. But William Gay interests me.  He isn't elite but man he has been steady.  The guy has played in every game since being drafted in 2007.  He's only 27 too.  He isn't real flashy, not much of a ball hawk but he was credited with 61 tackles, 2 INTs and 13 PD last year.  He could be a decent insurance policy if Dowling can't stay healthy or we move McCourty to FS and the money shouldn't be bad, plus Addition by Subtraction.  I keep preaching that.  Force the Steelers to burn a draft pick or other resources to replace him. Since Free Agency starts March 13, we really should be focusing most of our efforts on studying this since we have to wait until late April for the draft and our needs hopefully will be very much different by then as it well for a lot of teams.  Guys who aren't free agents are going to get cut as cap cutting measures.   It is so hard to keep up with our team let alone 31 others.  But I will predict there will be some shocking players on the market that nobody is talking about today.
    Posted by Faucetman


    My God I'd love to see a Mike Wallace here or someone like that - a young and explosive wide out that would add 3 years to Brady's legacy. Our offense could not be stopped with a guy like that on the outside and out two tight ends inside.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    Here's a link. http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html Posted by tartarus12 Guys, check out the above link posted on another thread.  The Pats do have about $25MM to play with and Welker would eat almost $10MM of it.  WOW, thanks for posting that link.   The Steelers are in absolute cap "Super Max High Security Prison" at nearly $150MM!!  They are going to have their hands full keeping their top F/As and getting down to the $128MM range.  I don't see any way possible for them to extend Mike Wallace as they have 3 starters on their OL to deal with plus starting CB William Gay.  They will have to restrict Wallace and probably can't match any decent offer.  I've beaten the Wallace horse absolutely senseless, pummeling him over and over until his brain matter splattered all over these pages (sorry for the graphics) these past 24 hours so I won't bring it up again as long as I get credit for the idea if we actually move on it, lol. But William Gay interests me.  He isn't elite but man he has been steady.  The guy has played in every game since being drafted in 2007.  He's only 27 too.  He isn't real flashy, not much of a ball hawk but he was credited with 61 tackles, 2 INTs and 13 PD last year.  He could be a decent insurance policy if Dowling can't stay healthy or we move McCourty to FS and the money shouldn't be bad, plus Addition by Subtraction.  I keep preaching that.  Force the Steelers to burn a draft pick or other resources to replace him. Since Free Agency starts March 13, we really should be focusing most of our efforts on studying this since we have to wait until late April for the draft and our needs hopefully will be very much different by then as it well for a lot of teams.  Guys who aren't free agents are going to get cut as cap cutting measures.   It is so hard to keep up with our team let alone 31 others.  But I will predict there will be some shocking players on the market that nobody is talking about today.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Thought of something expanding on that Faucet, there were reports last year that I remember that some teams were miss managing their contracts with the no cap season.

    I'm sure there aren't alot of them but I think teams that didn't do their work to make sure they accounted for this year's cap will need to release some players and set themselves up.  So you could see a flood of released players.
    Most will probably be 30 - 33 yrs old but BB loves getting those guys in for a couple of years and get the most out of them in very specific roles.  

    If he tries to set up the team to go into the draft with not glaring need it will be best player available or trades but lets see what he does with FA

    I want these guys bad, think of what type of team it becomes but do they have the cap $$ for it? Williams, Carriker, Nelson, Meachem, Brooks

    The D becomes one of the best in the league and Meachem gives them the deep threat but can also run all the intermediate routes.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsiefan. Show pumpsiefan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I've said it before but we are so fortunate to have the likes of PatsEng, Faucet and MBeaul and a few others on this board. These guys make Kiper and McShay and other "experts" look like high school kids.
    Even as the pain of Sunday past lingers, there is nothing better than being a Boston sports fan.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

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    I'm not a big fan of signing running backs to big money in free agency, but I wonder what a guy like Marshawn Lynch would command? He's got to be tired of playing for losing teams. He's only 26 and man does he run hard - he had absolutely no help in Seattle this year and still got 1200yards. I know we have two young guys waiting, but one looks like a third down back (size wise Vareen) and the other was a third round pick. I think we could use a guy that has size, power, experience and real NFL production on teams that were concentrating on stopping him.  
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I don't know if any of you guys have noticed but Brady doesn't throw a good deep ball,so finding a receiver who runs deep routes isn't going to help him. Wallace is a good receiver and he can take the cover off the top of a defense,too bad Brady isn't adept at making that throw! If you don't believe me just think back to his throw to Gronk that was picked off he under threw him by 5 yards,also in the Ravens game he did the same thing on a deep route and was picked then also fortunately the Ravens were called for off sides. Now if you are thinking Mallett there is no doubt that he has the gun for the deep ball.Of course he'll be throwing them for another team because Brady isn't retiring anytime soon!
    Posted by sportsbozo1


    if you also recall that pass was after Brady got planted into the ground when he hurt his other shoulder. I know it was not his throwing shoulder but I do think it had an effect on his throws.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : That might have been me because I see Jeffery as another Byrant type of pain in the butt headache. Ton of talent but no sense of reality and will cause trouble. The Pats already passed on Bryant once they will pass on another again
    Posted by PatsEng

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Here's a link. http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html Posted by tartarus12 Guys, check out the above link posted on another thread.  The Pats do have about $25MM to play with and Welker would eat almost $10MM of it.  WOW, thanks for posting that link.   The Steelers are in absolute cap "Super Max High Security Prison" at nearly $150MM!!  They are going to have their hands full keeping their top F/As and getting down to the $128MM range.  I don't see any way possible for them to extend Mike Wallace as they have 3 starters on their OL to deal with plus starting CB William Gay.  They will have to restrict Wallace and probably can't match any decent offer.  I've beaten the Wallace horse absolutely senseless, pummeling him over and over until his brain matter splattered all over these pages (sorry for the graphics) these past 24 hours so I won't bring it up again as long as I get credit for the idea if we actually move on it, lol. But William Gay interests me.  He isn't elite but man he has been steady.  The guy has played in every game since being drafted in 2007.  He's only 27 too.  He isn't real flashy, not much of a ball hawk but he was credited with 61 tackles, 2 INTs and 13 PD last year.  He could be a decent insurance policy if Dowling can't stay healthy or we move McCourty to FS and the money shouldn't be bad, plus Addition by Subtraction.  I keep preaching that.  Force the Steelers to burn a draft pick or other resources to replace him. Since Free Agency starts March 13, we really should be focusing most of our efforts on studying this since we have to wait until late April for the draft and our needs hopefully will be very much different by then as it well for a lot of teams.  Guys who aren't free agents are going to get cut as cap cutting measures.   It is so hard to keep up with our team let alone 31 others.  But I will predict there will be some shocking players on the market that nobody is talking about today.
    Posted by Faucetman


    The Pats have $25M...Does this account for Mayo's contract?

    If Welker costs us $8M-$10M of that $25M, and our draft picks cost us around $5M, that would give us $10-$12M to use in FA, plus there are other guys on our roster currently we need to resign or at least think about resigning.

    Is it possible the Pats do not resign Welker, and instead use the money on an FA WR like Wallace/Meachem/Colston? A higher priced target that provides something different to the offense than what we have today. Again, love Welker, but BB could easily slip Hernandez/Edelman in Welker's spot, draft another TE, sign one of Wallce/Meachem/Colston and also grab Lloyd or a WR via the draft.

    I'm trying to take the emotional part of Welker out of the conversation for a second and see what makes us a stronger team.

    What makes us a better offense?
    TE - Gronk
    TE - Fleener/Allen
    Slot - Hernandez/Edelman
    WR - Wallace
    WR - Lloyd

    OR

    TE - Gronk
    TE - Hernandez
    Slot - Welker
    WR - Lloyd
    WR - Branch / to be drafted

    Personally, I don't see us spending as much as it would take to sign Wallace to a long term contract + resign Welker. We woudl be in the same spot the Jets are by committing close to $20M of the cap towards 2 WRs. Is that smart business? I think they will have to choose...1 high priced WR (Welker or Wallace) + a guy like Lloyd.
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'd take Sanu at 31. He seems like a Patriot type of player. But with Jeffery, BB just cleaned up the clubhouse and even Kraft commented about how much the clubhouse improved this year and how it felt like a family. I don't want to bring in trouble cases in either the first 2 round because dumping them after or during their first year because of locker room issues is a huge waste of a pick. Though at #48 I would really have to think long and hard about Jeffery. The Jets sitting at #47 seem like a perfect spot for him. They love head cases and trouble makers
    Posted by PatsEng


    Let the headcases go to the Jets. I'm with you.

    Sanu has been tossed around alot. I keep thinking any WR we take in the draft is going to be a #4/5 option at best when Gronk, Hern and Wes, (maybe Lloyd added) are on the field. Is a #4/5 option in our offense worth the 31st pick?

    OR, do we wait until maybe round 2-3 and grab Dwight Jones out of UNC? He's the big WR we all crave, plus as a #4/5 option in our offense that might make better sense? Doesn't have to be Jones, but someone we can get late round 2, or round 3. I think this is a deep WR class, and for teh #4/5 option in our offense, it seems logical to spend in that area....
    thoughts?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    So, it could look like this....
    TE - Gronk
    TE - Hernandez
    TE (Option 1) - Possible FA Targets (Shiancoe, Fred Davis, John Carlson) 
    TE (Option 2) - Draft..As much as I want BB to land Fleener or Allen, I don't think he'll spend the pick. Maaybe look to a kid like George Bryan out of NC State (6'5", 260, excellent blocker, capable receiver)
    Slot - Welker
    WR - Lloyd (FA)
    WR - Dwight Jones (Draft)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    lol thanks for confirming my post on page 126 on the cap Faucet. I broke down where I think the money is going and what it's going to spent on in the post. I just don't see a way Wallace fits if we want to fill other holes on the team. Then again I'm a D first type of guy so I have most of the cap space allicated towards D FA's and replacing the 20 FA's we have.

    If we get Lloyd then he's your #2 in a system he's already familiar with, with Welker as your #1 WR. That means if you get a fast outside the numbers guys he's your #3 WR which seems about right. In that sense you can grab some guys with speed to fill that role. Some guys of interest with fast feet in the 3rd-5th round range are T.Y. Hilton, Broyles, and Eric Page. That last one I think you should check out. Comes from a smaller school and not a polished route runner but great YAC ability and can't be caught straight line

    Here's some vid I found. Doesn't highlight his speed but shows his great yac ability

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmDWJW0wmVI

    This one shows his speed a little better. Note watch the burst after the catch and after the defender thinks he matches speed. N Ill was actually so scared of the guy they were punting to him short and squib kicking it all game to him

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvQXzpGPng


    He doesn't have Wallace speed but as a #3 WR he has more then enough
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    lol thanks for confirming my post on page 126 on the cap Faucet. I broke down where I think the money is going and what it's going to spent on in the post. I just don't see a way Wallace fits if we want to fill other holes on the team. Then again I'm a D first type of guy so I have most of the cap space allicated towards D FA's and replacing the 20 FA's we have. If we get Lloyd then he's your #2 in a system he's already familiar with, with Welker as your #1 WR. That means if you get a fast outside the numbers guys he's your #3 WR which seems about right. In that sense you can grab some guys with speed to fill that role. Some guys of interest with fast feet in the 3rd-5th round range are T.Y. Hilton, Broyles, and Eric Page. That last one I think you should check out. Comes from a smaller school and not a polished route runner but great YAC ability and can't be caught straight line Here's some vid I found. Doesn't highlight his speed but shows his great yac ability http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmDWJW0wmVI This one shows his speed a little better. Note watch the burst after the catch and after the defender thinks he matches speed. N Ill was actually so scared of the guy they were punting to him short and squib kicking it all game to him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvQXzpGPng He doesn't have Wallace speed but as a #3 WR he has more then enough
    Posted by PatsEng


    What type of WR are you thinking best compliments our current stable? Broyles is more of a slot WR. Hilton can line up outside the numbers and stretch it, but he's not going to win any jump balls, and he's not physical off the line. Page I know nothing about.
    Seems like we would want a kid that has good speed, COD, good hands and can beat press man off the line. Someone physical, good blocker in the run game and can win balls downfield if that's where we are throwing.
    This is why I brought up Jones from UNC. he seems to have jsut about everything we are possibly looking for, complimenting our current stable.
    Broyles/Hilton seem somewhat redundant. Maybe just me, but an observation.
    I think where Hilton could add value immediately is his KR/PR ability. We need to upgrade that position big time.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : What type of WR are you thinking best compliments our current stable? Broyles is more of a slot WR. Hilton can line up outside the numbers and stretch it, but he's not going to win any jump balls, and he's not physical off the line. Page I know nothing about. Seems like we would want a kid that has good speed, COD, good hands and can beat press man off the line. Someone physical, good blocker in the run game and can win balls downfield if that's where we are throwing. This is why I brought up Jones from UNC. he seems to have jsut about everything we are possibly looking for, complimenting our current stable. Broyles/Hilton seem somewhat redundant. Maybe just me, but an observation. I think where Hilton could add value immediately is his KR/PR ability. We need to upgrade that position big time.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    Personally I want a big possession type of WR that has great body control and can work the sidelines. Brady's strength is accuracy in the short to intermediate range so I want a WR who plays to those strengths (on reason I think Gronk fits so well with Brady). Someone with a large catch radius that can make adjustments to the ball. I think Lloyd has enough speed to force S's back but a lot of people want speed so I was giving options with speed in the mid rounds.

    Eddie Royal is another FA that you should keep an eye on. Again, another player familiar with McDaniels system and runs a 4.40. I think this would be a more realistic option as a second FA to match with Lloyd and Welker then Wallace if you are looking for speed.

    For me though in the draft I'm looking at players like (in no particular order):

    Brian Quick 6'4" 220lbs          4.5's
    Stephen Hill 6'4" 205lbs         4.5's
    Marvin McNutt 6'3" 215lbs      4.6's
    Dwight Jones 6'3" 225lbs       4.55's
    Rueben Randle 6'4" 205lbs    4.5's
    Mohamad Sanu 6'2" 215lbs    4.5's
    Damarlo Belcher 6'5" 215lbs   4.45's
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Three receivers I really like and another one that intrigues me in the draft;

    Jarius Wright 5'10" 176 I hope they draft J. Wright, he can lineup anywhere a WR would lineup.  Has very good speed to create a deep threat.  Tracks the ball well on those deep routes, only concern I have is his release off the line against bigger CBs.  His quickness might make up for lack of strength.

    Ty Hilton 5'10" 184 Hilton is a great character kid that has just as good ability.  Great speed off the line and quickness getting in and out of cuts.  He reminds me a lot of Branch the early years. 

    Chris Givens 6'0" 195 I really like Givens, he needs little work but overall he's a very good route runner.  Very quick getting into cuts, gets of press and start his route quickly.

    Intrigued by:
    Stephen Hill 6'4" 206 He doesn't have elite speed but has good speed to get down field.  a couple of samples of the dudes vertical abilities and hands

    Comes out of Georgia Tech and we all know what type O they run.  He's good at run blocking on the edge but when you play in an offense that evolves around running he has too.  He might have the highest upside of the WRs but about as raw as they come.  Not good at route running, would take a season or two for him to be a caliber WR with a lot of coaching.  Might not be the right answer for NE but this kid has the tools to be very good.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Personally I want a big possession type of WR that has great body control and can work the sidelines. Brady's strength is accuracy in the short to intermediate range so I want a WR who plays to those strengths (on reason I think Gronk fits so well with Brady). Someone with a large catch radius that can make adjustments to the ball. I think Lloyd has enough speed to force S's back but a lot of people want speed so I was giving options with speed in the mid rounds. Eddie Royal is another FA that you should keep an eye on. Again, another player familiar with McDaniels system and runs a 4.40. I think this would be a more realistic option as a second FA to match with Lloyd and Welker then Wallace if you are looking for speed. For me though in the draft I'm looking at players like (in no particular order): Brian Quick 6'4" 220lbs          4.5's Stephen Hill 6'4" 205lbs         4.5's Marvin McNutt 6'3" 215lbs      4.6's Dwight Jones 6'3" 225lbs       4.55's Rueben Randle 6'4" 205lbs    4.5's Mohamad Sanu 6'2" 215lbs    4.5's Damarlo Belcher 6'5" 215lbs   4.45's
    Posted by PatsEng



    Is is just your preference? Certainly all things being equal you always want a bigger player at any position.

    1) Can he understand the offense and read defenses
    2) Can he get open (that's probably part speed and quickness and part craftiness)
    3) Can he catch consistently

    Giants just won the superbowl with a 6'1 and two 6'0 guys.
    Pats won theirs with 5'9, 6'0, and 2 5'10 guys

    Of guys that fit those measureables you are talking about, the VERY large majority of them that are really good are blue chip receivers up where the Pats are not typically drafting.

    There are exceptions obviously but you have to be a bit lucky.

    Jordy Nelson #5 in 2nd Rd
    Vincent Jackson #29 in 2nd Rd
    Brandon Marshall #22 in 4th Rd
    Marques Colston #44 in 7th Rd

    Brandon Llyod is a 4.6 40 guy. Not sure he's forcing anyone back based on speed respect. He's basically Jabar Gaffney, just tad slower.

    Bottom line for me still remains that one quality. Until the Pats can identify who can read and adjust to a defense in the "same" way as Brady is seeing it, I am gun-shy on drafting ANY WR.

    The Pats have simply not demonstrated this ability consistently in either drafting or FA acquisition and I would rather them make the mistake on a FA WR. Just don't do like with Ocho and give  big signing bonus PRIOR to proof that he gets it and be forced to keep him so you don't feel like you gave away millions for nothing.

    If a WR is not willing to make that type of deal then see ya. As Brady says, if you as a player don't have confidence in yourself how am I suppose to have confidence in you. If a WR the Pats might chase doesn't have the nads to say yeah pay me the bonus AFTER I show you I got this down then they shouldn't want him anyway.

    Just my opinion...
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Three receivers I really like and another one that intrigues me in the draft; Jarius Wright 5'10" 176 I hope they draft J. Wright, he can lineup anywhere a WR would lineup.  Has very good speed to create a deep threat.  Tracks the ball well on those deep routes, only concern I have is his release off the line against bigger CBs.  His quickness might make up for lack of strength. Ty Hilton 5'10" 184 Hilton is a great character kid that has just as good ability.  Great speed off the line and quickness getting in and out of cuts.  He reminds me a lot of Branch the early years.  Chris Givens 6'0" 195 I really like Givens, he needs little work but overall he's a very good route runner.  Very quick getting into cuts, gets of press and start his route quickly. Intrigued by: Stephen Hill 6'4" 206 He doesn't have elite speed but has good speed to get down field.  a couple of samples of the dudes vertical abilities and hands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcs-iqymQrk&noredirect=1    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfALNRblfXk Comes out of Georgia Tech and we all know what type O they run.  He's good at run blocking on the edge but when you play in an offense that evolves around running he has too.  He might have the highest upside of the WRs but about as raw as they come.  Not good at route running, would take a season or two for him to be a caliber WR with a lot of coaching.  Might not be the right answer for NE but this kid has the tools to be very good.
    Posted by Pats7393



    Both great highlight clips. I was cracking up listening to the announcer on the 1 handed grab with the what a great throw what a great catch bit. lol great throw?

    Again though my problem with watching any of these things on WR's is does anyone not think Ocho can do those catches on any given good day?

    If the kid can't read and adjust to the D the way Brady sees it he ain't seeing the field.

    Is that fact as ridiculously frustrating for you all as it is for me?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Is is just your preference? Certainly all things being equal you always want a bigger player at any position. 1) Can he understand the offense and read defenses 2) Can he get open (that's probably part speed and quickness and part craftiness) 3) Can he catch consistently Giants just won the superbowl with a 6'1 and two 6'0 guys. Pats won theirs with 5'9, 6'0, and 2 5'10 guys Of guys that fit those measureables you are talking about, the VERY large majority of them that are really good are blue chip receivers up where the Pats are not typically drafting. There are exceptions obviously but you have to be a bit lucky. Jordy Nelson #5 in 2nd Rd Vincent Jackson #29 in 2nd Rd Brandon Marshall #22 in 4th Rd Marques Colston #44 in 7th Rd Brandon Llyod is a 4.6 40 guy. Not sure he's forcing anyone back based on speed respect. He's basically Jabar Gaffney, just tad slower. Bottom line for me still remains that one quality. Until the Pats can identify who can read and adjust to a defense in the "same" way as Brady is seeing it, I am gun-shy on drafting ANY WR. The Pats have simply not demonstrated this ability consistently in either drafting or FA acquisition and I would rather them make the mistake on a FA WR. Just don't do like with Ocho and give  big signing bonus PRIOR to proof that he gets it and be forced to keep him so you don't feel like you gave away millions for nothing. If a WR is not willing to make that type of deal then see ya. As Brady says, if you as a player don't have confidence in yourself how am I suppose to have confidence in you. If a WR the Pats might chase doesn't have the nads to say yeah pay me the bonus AFTER I show you I got this down then they shouldn't want him anyway. Just my opinion...
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    This concerns me as well. I do have a question however. How do rookies / 2nd year players like Gronk and Hernandez get it, while other rooks/2nd-4th year players and FAs don't? Is it position related...TE vs. WR?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Both great highlight clips. I was cracking up listening to the announcer on the 1 handed grab with the what a great throw what a great catch bit. lol great throw? Again though my problem with watching any of these things on WR's is does anyone not think Ocho can do those catches on any given good day? If the kid can't read and adjust to the D the way Brady sees it he ain't seeing the field. Is that fact as ridiculously frustrating for you all as it is for me?
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    This kid is so damn intriguing to me, maybe because GA Tech is 20 min down highway 75 from me but think it's more of how much raw talent this kid has but you are right this is a major project.

    He needs to learn the game, GA Tech is not by any means a WR college although Megatron came from there but he's just a beast.  I don't know if the Pats would make the commitment on this kid, highly doubt it.  Learning the O is one thing when you know how to read and react, not knowing how to read to then react is where this kid is.

    So I'm not in any means saying draft him, just intrigued to what type of player he could become with two years in a system and learn to play the position.  Would take at least 2 years I think.
     
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