***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

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    Howdy Boys, haven't been on for a couple of weeks and am playing catch up. I wanted to touch on the TE topic a bit.  The Gronk/Hern combo is all world at this point, but I could see them targeting this position again, assuming they can come away with another dual threat type mismatch nightmare.  Also, with Hernandez serving more of a slot/split wide role, another player with inline potential would be a value add.  Based on what I've seen so far this season, there are (3) kids that have impressed me: Tyler Eifert- 6-6 249- ND (Junior) Coby Fleener- 6-6 244- Stanford (Senior) Levine Toilolo- 6-8 263- Stanford (Junior) Eifert is quickly becoming one of my favorite players in this draft as he's adept at creating seperation in man as well as locating the soft spot in zone coverage, working the middle of the field and has become a real go to player for ND's offense.  He's an athletic kid with great size and length, is versatile with experience inline as well as the slot and possesses good RAC ability.  He has the potential to develop into -IMO- a player that's on par or better than Kyle Rudolph who was taken #43 overall by the Vikings in 2011. As for the Stanford kids, I see some similarities between Standford and our Patriots in that both teams really rely on their TE's to create mismatches, both vertically and in the short to intermediate passing games.  Fleener is a highly ranked TE (probably the highest ranked senior at the position) and has made a ton of big plays this season for the Cardinal (7 TD's) while Toilolo is a sleeper that I liken to Jimmy Graham in that he's a relative unknown.  Keep in mind that this kid is an athletic 6-8 which at the very least makes him an awesome weapon in the redzone. Keep an eye on these three as the season progresses. Also, as most of you know, I'm a huge ND fan and it just so happens that they have quality prospects that will be talked about frequently as we get closer to draft day.  Obviously Manti Te'o and Michael Floyd are known commodities but a lesser known kid is S Harrison Smith .  For those of you that are looking for a S with size, this kid has it (6-2 and a rock solid 215, which I would guess is closer to 220+), he's also an aggressive kid thats excellent in run support, is always around the football and will attack the LOS.  He's also a leader and captain on the team and has a ton of experience (40+ career starts), is a tackling machine (260+ and counting) and appears to have atleast adequate ball skills (18 pass break ups, 7 INTs).  I wouldn't say he's an ultra-athletic kid, but he's blue collar and will bring it on every down and IMO projects as a starting S at the NFL level. He's likely to be available in the middle rounds (3-5). As is CB Robert Blanton , he's another good sized kid (6-0 200) that has really come on this season and made a ton of big plays.  He isn't a burner (likely 4.5 range), but is a physical kid and willing run defender. As for later round kids, OLB Darius Fleming is a kid to keep an eye on, he's a solid 6-2 265, with a ton of experience (Butkus Watch List) that's shown the ability to make plays behind the LOS (30 career TFL and counting to go along with 13.5 sacks). Lastly, 6-4 300 DT Ethan Johnson (Hendricks Watch List) is another experienced kid that may generate some interest in the later rounds, he's a scheme diverse kid that's starting both 43 and 34 schemes.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    does anyone know what round  Levine Toilolo is supposed to be chosen in?
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : does anyone know what round  Levine Toilolo is supposed to be chosen in?
    Posted by natesubs


    nate,
    Tough call as he only has 9 career catches (8-175-3 on the season), but is approaching Jimmy Graham's senior total of 17-213-5.  After looking further into his status, he might be a RS Sophmore and a candidate to return to school... if he declares, I could see a Graham type rise (Rd 3) as scouts and personnel types get a better look at him.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Where do most think Upshaw might fall.

    The one knock on upshaw is that he's to small to be a 43 DE but to slow to be a 34 OLB which could hurt him as a tweener player. But, for the Pats who flex in and out of the 34, 43 he seems like a good fit (similiar to how Cunningham seemed to fit)

    Is it possible that Upshaw ends up in the mid-late 20's and the Pats get a shot at him? I think he could be the disruptive force they though Cunningham or Anderson would have been
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    Hey Gents,

    Been looking at how many Jrs could be 1st round selections if they declare which lead me to do a very early mock based on standings this week.  Went all D for NE, just don't think other than a WR NE will take any O players in the first two rounds with all the front 7 talent there appears to be. 

    Yes I selected another CB early, for some reason probably my oversight Dre Patrick dropped to the Pats.  Instead of moving things around just took best player available which happened to be a CB who has #1 talent.

    Pick #Team PositionPlayer
    1Miami*QBAndrew Luck
    2Indi*OTMatt Kalil
    3St Louis*WRJustin Blackmon
    4Arizona*OTJonathan Martin
    5Carolina*WRAlshon Jeffery
    6Jacksonville DEQuintion Coples
    7Minnesota WRMichael Floyd
    8Denver*QBMatt Barkley
    9Seattle*QBLandry Jones
    10Cleveland OLBZach Brown
    11Washington*OGDavid DeCastro
    12Dallas OGCordy Glenn
    13Philadelphia DTBrandon Thompson
    14NY Jets*OTRiley Reiff
    15Ten*ILBLuke Kuechley
    16Cleveland (Atl)*OTD.J. Fluker
    17Cinci (Oak)*CBMorris Claiborne
    18TB*CBJanoris Jenkins
    19San Diego OLB/DECourtney Upshaw
    20Baltimore*ILBDont'a Hightower
    21Chicago OTMike Adams
    22Cinci*OLB/ILBManti Te'o
    23Det*RBLamar Miller
    24NE*CBDre Patrick
    25KC NTAlameda Ta'amu
    26Houston CBChase Minnifield
    27NE (NO pick)*DEWhitney Mercilus
    28NYG OGKelechi Osemele
    29Buffalo OLB/ILBVontaze Burfict
    30SF DEJared Crick
    31Pittsburgh DEDevon Still
    32GB OLBCam Johnson
    * Jr
    2nd Rnd
     NE (Oak) OLB/DEBrandon Lindsey
     NE FST.J. McDonald
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

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    Hey Gents, Been looking at how many Jrs could be 1st round selections if they declare which lead me to do a very early mock based on standings this week.  Went all D for NE, just don't think other than a WR NE will take any O players in the first two rounds with all the front 7 talent there appears to be.  Yes I selected another CB early, for some reason probably my oversight Dre Patrick dropped to the Pats.  Instead of moving things around just took best player available which happened to be a CB who has #1 talent. Pick # Team   Position Player 1 Miami * QB Andrew Luck 2 Indi * OT Matt Kalil 3 St Louis * WR Justin Blackmon 4 Arizona * OT Jonathan Martin 5 Carolina * WR Alshon Jeffery 6 Jacksonville   DE Quintion Coples 7 Minnesota   WR Michael Floyd 8 Denver * QB Matt Barkley 9 Seattle * QB Landry Jones 10 Cleveland   OLB Zach Brown 11 Washington * OG David DeCastro 12 Dallas   OG Cordy Glenn 13 Philadelphia   DT Brandon Thompson 14 NY Jets * OT Riley Reiff 15 Ten * ILB Luke Kuechley 16 Cleveland (Atl) * OT D.J. Fluker 17 Cinci (Oak) * CB Morris Claiborne 18 TB * CB Janoris Jenkins 19 San Diego   OLB/DE Courtney Upshaw 20 Baltimore * ILB Dont'a Hightower 21 Chicago   OT Mike Adams 22 Cinci * OLB/ILB Manti Te'o 23 Det * RB Lamar Miller 24 NE * CB Dre Patrick 25 KC   NT Alameda Ta'amu 26 Houston   CB Chase Minnifield 27 NE (NO pick) * DE Whitney Mercilus 28 NYG   OG Kelechi Osemele 29 Buffalo   OLB/ILB Vontaze Burfict 30 SF   DE Jared Crick 31 Pittsburgh   DE Devon Still 32 GB   OLB Cam Johnson * Jr 2nd Rnd   NE (Oak)   OLB/DE Brandon Lindsey   NE   FS T.J. McDonald
    Posted by Pats7393

    The funniest part of this post was you had Buffalo in the AFC Championship game. 

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : The funniest part of this post was you had Buffalo in the AFC Championship game. 
    Posted by murghkhor


    This is only based on current standings, and for AFC championship would had been the steelers not the bills but again this is not based on how I think it will end but records and division standings as of this week.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : This is only based on current standings, and for AFC championship would had been the steelers not the bills but again this is not based on how I think it will end but records and division standings as of this week.
    Posted by Pats7393



    you really think jenkins gets picked before kirkpatrick?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    Where do most think Upshaw might fall. The one knock on upshaw is that he's to small to be a 43 DE but to slow to be a 34 OLB which could hurt him as a tweener player. But, for the Pats who flex in and out of the 34, 43 he seems like a good fit (similiar to how Cunningham seemed to fit) Is it possible that Upshaw ends up in the mid-late 20's and the Pats get a shot at him? I think he could be the disruptive force they though Cunningham or Anderson would have been
    Posted by PatsEng



    again eng, surprise, we're on the same wavelength.
    i posted this weekend

    on the thread i created for more college football communication:

    Colleg Football Thread: Misouri to SEC May be Official Monday


    important to know what bb intends next year to continue 4-3 and 3-4 or?
    so far in the draft im lookin at ingram at de/dl
    upshaw and brandon jenkins at olb/de hybrid, maybe hightower ilb if he makes it down that far and we go back to 3-4 base
    lester and mcdonald at safety
    center i imagine bb waits till mid rounds
    wr? we have sucked it up, but maybe we give another try at an ourtside the #s receiver, especialy if we think price wont make it as a starter, maybe dwight jones, think hes 6 4 and like 224 lbs, runs a 4.4, 62 catches for 946 yds junior year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    Solve the safety issue in free agency with Dashon Golson, Michael Griffin or Charles Godfrey... all who will play very well alongside Chung. Also sign Matt Roth who we should have signed this year and then we MUST revitalize Cunningham, who showed promise last year. The two of them are 3-4 DE/OLB's who should be impact players. If Cunningham is a lost cause already, then scrap the Roth idea and spend bucks on Anthony Spencer. Draft a CB and pass-rusher in rd 1... the draft is INSANELY deep in them... I no longer trust our scouting/coaching staff to know how to pick these positions though. McCourty I believe will still be a solid starter, but we'd have to nail a DT/DE or DE/OLB pass-rusher to help Carter (who should stay) and get CB who can start opposite Devin for years. Drafting Wheatley and Butler KILLED this team, as did Brace and Tate (and Crable. Those are all high picks. We should have had guys like Clay Matthews, Mike Wallace and Jamaal Charles intsead and just kept Asante. Ras-I and Arrington are solid 3rd-4th CB's.... Ras-I just has to stay healthy... being a 50 snap per game starter won't help that, but I'd love if he was a 13-15 game a year, 30-40 snap a game 3rd CB who played like starter when he was out there. 2nd rd they should go with a Center. There are 4 stud centers in this draft who should all go in the 25-50 range. Make it happen somehow and get one of them. Then I'd like to see more pass-rush, whatever position they don't get for the rush in rd 1 go with in rd 2. Maybe Crick falls. A WR with our other 2nd would be nice. I'd hope Taylor Price can emerge we can take broyles, his one-handed TD was amazing this weekend and he can easily replace Branch in this offense in 1-2 years. Use our 3rd rd pick and 4th rd pick to trade back up into the 2nd. We don't have a 5th or 6th so maybe even a 2nd or 3rd in 2013. We need 5-6 IMPACT guys in this draft and 2-3 IMPACT guys in free ageny. Depth is one thing this orginization does have an abudance of. But defensive playmakers and top lvel talent it lacks.
    Posted by rameakap

    great post. agree.

    re:"We need 5-6 IMPACT guys in this draft and 2-3 IMPACT guys in free ageny. Depth is one thing this orginization does have an abudance of. But defensive playmakers and top lvel talent it lacks."

    i said this last year and much of what you say above. (said it so many times you must have seen it here somewhere i imagine. :)

    there is a problem.
    bb has not been willing to draft positions he doesnt trust himself with apparently.
    and ones he does, except for offensive line, he usually doesnt draft them well either.

    we can still throw it out there i guess.
    a leopard can sometimes change it's spots.

    the rest of year:

    play ridley as fulltime back rest of year. play price rest of year.

    find out if price is that legit outside the numbers receiver to prevent good def shutting down the middle of the field. if by the end of the year he doenst work, pick up someone or draft that player (problem in both cases, their evaluation stinks. maybe we need to rip off some good evaluating personnel from other teams).

    if ridley proves to be the all around back, breakaway threat, tough runner inside and outside, out of the backfield, then you're set there and defenses can no longer key on the pass.
    these 2 things will be invaluable once in place against tough defenses. if ridley is not that player, get one.

    kraft hire a gm, off coord, def coord and complete new scout and draft room team (bill gets a say, but gm gets eqaul say).

    coaches in trainng out the door.

    nuf said


     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : you really think jenkins gets picked before kirkpatrick?
    Posted by seattlepat70



    maybe not if its tampa.
    they already are gonna lose their guy who may be going to prison.
    they might go for squeeky - er clean.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Ingram I'm cooling off a bit. This year would have been a great year to showcase his talents and he just hasn't done it (with exeception of 2 games Auburn and Van). He's created some oppotunities for other players to make plays but hasn't been able to make a lot of plays himself. I also don't like his height for a DE. When I think edge rushing DE I typically think 6'4"+ height not 6'2"

    The player that has taken Ingram's place in my mind is Vinny Curry. It's his second year in a row with double digit sacks and he has good height, size, and speed to be a edge rushing threat. The issue is becoming that he's going to easily work his way into the top 25 and maybe even top 20. If he does though that might work Upshaw into the late 20's
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

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    Ingram I'm cooling off a bit. This year would have been a great year to showcase his talents and he just hasn't done it (with exeception of 2 games Auburn and Van). He's created some oppotunities for other players to make plays but hasn't been able to make a lot of plays himself. I also don't like his height for a DE. When I think edge rushing DE I typically think 6'4"+ height not 6'2" The player that has taken Ingram's place in my mind is Vinny Curry. It's his second year in a row with double digit sacks and he has good height, size, and speed to be a edge rushing threat. The issue is becoming that he's going to easily work his way into the top 25 and maybe even top 20. If he does though that might work Upshaw into the late 20's
    Posted by PatsEng


    agreed. curry has been a "b" word (unutterable since meeting mb:)
     
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    kraft hire a gm, off coord, def coord and complete new scout and draft room team (bill gets a say, but gm gets eqaul say). Agreed, only that is is an 'assistant GM' whi is head of scouting so it doesn't look a demotion
    Posted by rameakap


    i'll go with that.
    will kraft get the cojones or just keep giving it all to bb till he walsk away. if so, we may have seen the last of the super bowls in the brady era (unless bb changes his stripes).
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    kraft hire a gm, off coord, def coord and complete new scout and draft room team (bill gets a say, but gm gets eqaul say). Agreed, only that is is an 'assistant GM' whi is head of scouting so it doesn't look a demotion
    Posted by rameakap


    You know what's scary. If you go by pure numbers the regulars in this forum have hit on as many picks as BB has recently.

    Now please before I get jumped on let me say that I'm going by pure numbers production wise and this does not reflect at all how a certain player will fit into a system or even be productive in that system. Actually the players that this forum picks tend to go to teams that will best utilize their abilities so the numbers are skewed towards our favor. And, by no means do I believe I could be a NFL scout but it is kind of scary that people behind a keyboard with only our eyes and scouting reports can pick about the same % of successful players in the league then BB does for his whole team, in the early rounds, with all the resources BB has.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : You know what's scary. If you go by pure numbers the regulars in this forum have hit on as many picks as BB has recently. Now please before I get jumped on let me say that I'm going by pure numbers production wise and this does not reflect at all how a certain player will fit into a system or even be productive in that system. Actually the players that this forum picks tend to go to teams that will best utilize their abilities so the numbers are skewed towards our favor. And, by no means do I believe I could be a NFL scout but it is kind of scary that people behind a keyboard with only our eyes and scouting reports can pick about the same % of successful players in the league then BB does for his whole team, in the early rounds, with all the resources BB has.
    Posted by PatsEng


    I thought the same thing when I saw an article of all the missed players recently.  But what also frustraste me is looking at players that have been drafted right after the Pats have drafted a player.  Perfect example and most frustrating to me is Mike Wallace Pats select Brandon Tate Steelers very next pick select Wallace.  Coming out of college was not a good route runner but has surely turned into a very good one he's not just a 1 or 2 route guy.  Another one with a WR Pats select Kevin O'Connell the next pick by Giants Mario Manningham he's done well in NFL.

    I think something is going on with player development, players are not getting the teaching IMO for them to progress quickly.  I see rooks making huge impacts for teams but Pats rookies are not used.  We have two rookie RBs, one has been hurt but is healthy now O'Brian give them a few touches see what type of spark they provide.  Same with Price, he's not up to part in a full route three fine put him in specific situations with those routes he's got down.  Just think coaching is hurting some of these guys, outside OL.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I hope this is the year we go defense with all our top picks. I like our current group of Corners, Run Stuffing Defensive Tackles and Inside Line backers. 

    I think we could really improve by adding a penetrating 1 gap defensive Lineman, two edge rushers and a ball hawking safety.

    Given the above, I would hope for something like this,

    1st Round Pick 1 ---------   Courtney Upshaw (OLB) Alabama

    1st Round Pick 2 ---------   Brandon Jenkins (DE) Florida State/ Vinny Curry                                             (DE) Marshall

    2nd Round Pick 1---------   Robert Lester (FS) Alabama

    2nd Round Pick 2---------   Billy Winn (DT/DE) Boise State

    I would then go offense with the the 3rd and 4th round picks and look to pick a WR and TE such as Colby Fleener from Stanford.

    Appreciate your thoughts.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    I hope this is the year we go defense with all our top picks. I like our current group of Corners, Run Stuffing Defensive Tackles and Inside Line backers.  I think we could really improve by adding a penetrating 1 gap defensive Lineman, two edge rushers and a ball hawking safety. Given the above, I would hope for something like this, 1st Round Pick 1 ---------   Courtney Upshaw (OLB) Alabama 1st Round Pick 2 ---------   Brandon Jenkins (DE) Florida State/ Vinny Curry                                             (DE) Marshall 2nd Round Pick 1---------   Robert Lester (FS) Alabama 2nd Round Pick 2---------   Billy Winn (DT/DE) Boise State I would then go offense with the the 3rd and 4th round picks and look to pick a WR and TE such as Colby Fleener from Stanford. Appreciate your thoughts.
    Posted by speedster81


    Upshaw, Curry, and Lester would be a dream draft for me right now.

    However, I don't think both Upshaw and Curry make it to our 1st pick. I think it would be one of the other and right now I'd rather have Curry. I just prefer players closer to being a DL then closer to a LB. I'm always under the assumption that pass rush starts in the trenches and ripples out.

    I'm not sure Lester makes it to Oak's pick. It looks like Oak might actually a shot to make the post-season so their pick might be later in the 2nd and I don't see Lester making out of the mid 2nd, given the bad S play around the league.

    But I'd dance for joy at this point if we could get them all
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    I agree with Pats7393 and PatsEng. Our hits/misses in the draft are well documented. Because of the misses, we'll need to probably dedicate a couple of more picks to the secondary (S&CB) unless BB thinks Moulden/Adams are either starting caliber or strong contributing CBs. I personally don't see it. I think we need a good #2 CB because I'm not putting any stock at this poinnt in Ras and Arrington to me is actually better at the star position.

    Safety is an interesting position. I don't have much faith in Brown or Barrett. Idehigbo is okay, but he's too much in the mold of Chung and Barrett (not good cover safeties). We need a more natural cover safety to compliment Chung, or draft a stout CB and make him a Safety. Someone that comes in with cover skills because of playing CB but with the size to play safety. Really just a bigger CB, somewhere in the 215/220 range with some speed and instinct.

    Takes me to PatsEng point...I too agree that DL/DE is a key position of need. The question is do we draft a 4-3 DT/DE or a bigger 3-4 DE who can also play in the interior? My feeling is we look at pure 4-3 DT's/DE's. Brace can fill in at 3-4 End if we need him (assuming he is healthy), and I like the Pats a bit better when they are running 4+ man lines. Crick is an interesting name to watch, but I think there are many others depending on how much of a need we think this is. I also like Vin Curry. I mentioned his name about 10 pages ago, a kid I would keep an eye on. Also, let us not forget FA here. Roth was mentioned. Another name is Mathis from Indy. Big money for him, but can you imagine either Roth or Mathis opposite Carter? I think Carter needs to be extended for another year. He's good against the run and also can rush.
    Roth gives you a bit more flexibility as he can play 3-4 OLB, but Mathis is a monster pass rusher. Depends on how much $$$ we want to dedicate to that position.

    LB is another story. Frankly the only 2 LB's that I like, and worthy of "starter" are Mayo and Spikes. It would be nice to draft Manti Te'O with one of our firsts and put him next to Spikes. A trio of Mayo/Spikes/Manti would be just want the doctor ordered. That is a significant upgrade at LB, and we have Fletcher, Guyton and Nink as depth which is where they belong.

    On to offense....I'm curious if the Pats resign Welker. Somethign tells me he walks. OR maybe the Pats are not as interested as we believe? IF he walks, could we see Hernandez/Vereen/Edelman(if he's not cut) play Welker's role in the slot? I kind of like the 2 or 3 of them sharing this position. I think each present match up challenges like Welker with a bit more strength to muscle off jams at the line. I think Wes is more easily interrupted at the line than if you compare him to Hernandez or Vereen for example. Problem is Vereen is not proven in this role, but I'm pretty confident he could do it if molded and coached up. He has the quicks, speed, hands and strength. If Hern is used more in this mold (full time in the slot), I want the kid from Stanford (Fleener) that MB and I mentioned earlier. He paired with Gronk would be nice. THat is 2 very big, good inline blocking and pass catching TE's on the outside. Power run game with options here we come. I think Fleener can be had in the 2nd/3rd round.

    This takes us to the outside. I thiink the Ocho experiement is over after this season if we wait that long. Price should be getting all of Ocho's reps at this point. I think Price will prove a decent #3/4 WR. Branch is long in the tooth, does he have 1 more year in him?
    At WR, I think BB does 2 things; 1-goes with a veteran. There are plently to be had in FA next year. One of which I really like in Marques Colston from NO. 2. Drafts a WR someplace after the 3rd round. This will most likely be a developmental player, backfilling Edelman after he is cut.

    To boil it all down, here is my plan for better or worse....
    FA
    1. Sign Roth or Mathis (low/high end of pay scale) to play opposite Carter.
    2. Sign Marques Colston from NO. Big physical WR that presents match up challenges for CBs. This is if we don't resign Welker. Each will require big money, it depends on how BB wants to invest in the position given we have 2-3 guys that might be able to play great in the slot, and we don't have much outside. We could also draft Broyles in round 2 to replace Welker or Branch. Question is how do you invest in the WR position going forward?

    Draft (with no trades)
    Round 1a /> Manti Te'O LB (the trio of Mayo, Spikes, Manti) is a beautiful thing. If not Manti, I'm looking at Kuechly or possibly even Zach Brown here as well.
    Bottomline, I want to see an upgrade to our LB corps as well as DL, and don't see a DL worthy here at the moment. Your getting something different with all 3 of these LB prospects. I think each would be nice compliments to Mayo and Spikes. Brown brings the speed plus productino, Manti is a tackling machine and strong, and Kuechly is a bit of everything. Brown is a bit small however if we want to use him in more 3-4 looks. He does however have safety/CB speed...could be that tweener BB likes and play both positions depending on scheme.

    Round 1b /> Jerel Worthy DT (i like him in the rotation and he's an insurance policy incase Haynesworth, Ellils, Warren don't return). I like him starting inside with Vince and using Pryor/Love as depth)

    Round 2a /> T.J. McDonald (FS) Like him opposite Chung.

    Round 2b > Ryan Broyles (WR)??????? This is my toughest choice at the moment......This is a tough one depending on how we invest in the WR position going forward. Meaning, investing more inside the numbers (Welker) or outside the numbers (Colston/Jackson, etc.) and using what we have to play inside (Hern/Vereen/Edleman).

    Round 3 /> Coby Fleener (TE)....Perhaps a bit early for this position given we have Hern and Gronk, but it depends on what we do with Welker and how we use Hern going forward. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I dread every draft from BB.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I agree with Pats7393 and PatsEng. Our hits/misses in the draft are well documented. Because of the misses, we'll need to probably dedicate a couple of more picks to the secondary (S&CB) unless BB thinks Moulden/Adams are either starting caliber or strong contributing CBs. I personally don't see it. I think we need a good #2 CB because I'm not putting any stock at this poinnt in Ras and Arrington to me is actually better at the star position. Safety is an interesting position. I don't have much faith in Brown or Barrett. Idehigbo is okay, but he's too much in the mold of Chung and Barrett (not good cover safeties). We need a more natural cover safety to compliment Chung, or draft a stout CB and make him a Safety. Someone that comes in with cover skills because of playing CB but with the size to play safety. Really just a bigger CB, somewhere in the 215/220 range with some speed and instinct. Takes me to PatsEng point...I too agree that DL/DE is a key position of need. The question is do we draft a 4-3 DT/DE or a bigger 3-4 DE who can also play in the interior? My feeling is we look at pure 4-3 DT's/DE's. Brace can fill in at 3-4 End if we need him (assuming he is healthy), and I like the Pats a bit better when they are running 4+ man lines. Crick is an interesting name to watch, but I think there are many others depending on how much of a need we think this is. I also like Vin Curry. I mentioned his name about 10 pages ago, a kid I would keep an eye on. Also, let us not forget FA here. Roth was mentioned. Another name is Mathis from Indy. Big money for him, but can you imagine either Roth or Mathis opposite Carter? I think Carter needs to be extended for another year. He's good against the run and also can rush. Roth gives you a bit more flexibility as he can play 3-4 OLB, but Mathis is a monster pass rusher. Depends on how much $$$ we want to dedicate to that position. LB is another story. Frankly the only 2 LB's that I like, and worthy of "starter" are Mayo and Spikes. It would be nice to draft Manti Te'O with one of our firsts and put him next to Spikes. A trio of Mayo/Spikes/Manti would be just want the doctor ordered. That is a significant upgrade at LB, and we have Fletcher, Guyton and Nink as depth which is where they belong. On to offense....I'm curious if the Pats resign Welker. Somethign tells me he walks. OR maybe the Pats are not as interested as we believe? IF he walks, could we see Hernandez/Vereen/Edelman(if he's not cut) play Welker's role in the slot? I kind of like the 2 or 3 of them sharing this position. I think each present match up challenges like Welker with a bit more strength to muscle off jams at the line. I think Wes is more easily interrupted at the line than if you compare him to Hernandez or Vereen for example. Problem is Vereen is not proven in this role, but I'm pretty confident he could do it if molded and coached up. He has the quicks, speed, hands and strength. If Hern is used more in this mold (full time in the slot), I want the kid from Stanford (Fleener) that MB and I mentioned earlier. He paired with Gronk would be nice. THat is 2 very big, good inline blocking and pass catching TE's on the outside. Power run game with options here we come. I think Fleener can be had in the 2nd/3rd round. This takes us to the outside. I thiink the Ocho experiement is over after this season if we wait that long. Price should be getting all of Ocho's reps at this point. I think Price will prove a decent #3/4 WR. Branch is long in the tooth, does he have 1 more year in him? At WR, I think BB does 2 things; 1-goes with a veteran. There are plently to be had in FA next year. One of which I really like in Marques Colston from NO. 2. Drafts a WR someplace after the 3rd round. This will most likely be a developmental player, backfilling Edelman after he is cut. To boil it all down, here is my plan for better or worse.... FA 1. Sign Roth or Mathis (low/high end of pay scale) to play opposite Carter. 2. Sign Marques Colston from NO. Big physical WR that presents match up challenges for CBs. This is if we don't resign Welker. Each will require big money, it depends on how BB wants to invest in the position given we have 2-3 guys that might be able to play great in the slot, and we don't have much outside. We could also draft Broyles in round 2 to replace Welker or Branch. Question is how do you invest in the WR position going forward? Draft (with no trades) Round 1a /> Manti Te'O LB (the trio of Mayo, Spikes, Manti) is a beautiful thing. If not Manti, I'm looking at Kuechly or possibly even Zach Brown here as well. Bottomline, I want to see an upgrade to our LB corps as well as DL, and don't see a DL worthy here at the moment. Your getting something different with all 3 of these LB prospects. I think each would be nice compliments to Mayo and Spikes. Brown brings the speed plus productino, Manti is a tackling machine and strong, and Kuechly is a bit of everything. Brown is a bit small however if we want to use him in more 3-4 looks. He does however have safety/CB speed...could be that tweener BB likes and play both positions depending on scheme. Round 1b /> Jerel Worthy DT (i like him in the rotation and he's an insurance policy incase Haynesworth, Ellils, Warren don't return). I like him starting inside with Vince and using Pryor/Love as depth) Round 2a /> T.J. McDonald (FS) Like him opposite Chung. Round 2b /> Ryan Broyles (WR)??????? This is my toughest choice at the moment......This is a tough one depending on how we invest in the WR position going forward. Meaning, investing more inside the numbers (Welker) or outside the numbers (Colston/Jackson, etc.) and using what we have to play inside (Hern/Vereen/Edleman). Round 3 /> Coby Fleener (TE)....Perhaps a bit early for this position given we have Hern and Gronk, but it depends on what we do with Welker and how we use Hern going forward. 
    Posted by PatsLifer



    not one of the stud Center's in this draft? no big CB?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    I think we can grab a Center, but I'm looking a bit later for this position.

    Also, it makes me sick to grab yet another corner in this draft given we have burned a high 2nd last year, a 1st the year before, then a 2nd, 2nd, 4th, etc and only have really 1 to show who is playing and 1 on the shelf.

    I am hopeful Ras gets healthy and is the full time starter opposite McCourty next year. Arrington to play the star, Moulden/Adams as dime backs and depth. It all rests on Ras however. If we don't want to take the risk, perhaps we bring in another vet to compliment McCourty on the other side while we wait and see what Ras is made of. Mathis from Jacksonville would fit the bill.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : not one of the stud Center's in this draft? no big CB?
    Posted by natesubs


    I think because of how well Connolly has done it lessens the need for one early.  I also have concerns which are well documented of Konz injuries.  OC can be found into the 3rd round or 4th IMO. Looks like a good front 7 draft so a ton of those guys will go pushing down some OL.

    In the 3rd or 4th, either Brewster, Jones or Molk should be available but the guy I'm looking hard at is Phillip Blake in the 5th or 6th (they'll get picks for those rounds I know they don't have them going in).

    Phillip Blake 6'2" 320lbs, will be 26 years of age in November so a bit older than most.  Goes to Baylor, he's not asked to pull a lot but has.  Really strong dude, will not have problems with NTs has also played OT so could play RT in a bind as well as guard.  I'm really hopping this kid is scouted by the Pats.

    He's a stronger run blocker than pass protection but does both well.  
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Patslifer, that was a great draft and discussion. As far as C and CB are concerned I'm thinking we have to go with a Center myself. The Raiders pick would be a good one to nab the last 1 of the 4 elite guys who drops to us. Ben Jones seems to be ideal, not too tall to get in Brady's way (maybe like Brewster) and a mean streak in him. I think we HAVE TO add a DB in free agency. I have said so many times here there are safeties like Michael Griffin, Dashon Goldson, Charles Godfrey and Tyvon Branch who will be available. There are CB's like Tracy Porter, Rashean Mathis, Brandon Carr who will be FA's and Asante is going to be cut. Add a CB, draft a S if we add a S, draft a CB. I think we have the option of turning Ras-I, who is 6'1" 200lbs into a FS like the one you were looking to draft, a cover CB with size. But with his inuury history just depend on him as a backup until he has an entire season if health, esp if you may switch his position. If we get an elite/expensive veteran DB (6-7m per) then we should sign Roth (3-4m per) and draft aD-line guy rd 1, like Worthy. If we get a less expensive DB (3-4m per) then we should sign Mathis (6-7m per) and draft a linebacker.
    Posted by rameakap


    Thanks.
    I think there are some quality FA's next year at positions of need. We need to open up the wallet a bit, but I would love to have a veteran corner opposite McCourty like Mathis from Jacksonville than drafting another young kid to play corner. If we do that, then I want to draft a FS. I like T.J. McDonald personally. He next to Chung, Mathis next to McCourty sounds about right. Add in Ras and Arrington, and that is a nice defensive backfield.

    I think what we do at WR is probably the most compelling story to follow here. So many want us to resign Welker, and I'm one of them. However, it depends on what he wants money wise. If he takes a team friendly contract, I am inclined to do it. If not, I let him walk. I now he is Brady's binkie, but so what.
    I know I mentioned Colston in a previous post, and I like him. He is that big, strong WR that we might need on the outside. We have really nothing outside unless PRice shows up...jury out so far. Even still, he's not Colston just yet. So, it depends on what we want to do with that position.

    Half of me wants to make the full transition to 2 big TE's with Hern out there as well. This is why I want Fleener. He is in the mold of Gronk. Imagine Gronk and Fleener on the line, Hern in the backfield lead blocking, with Vereen or Ridley running the ball. OR using the same personnel, split Gronk and Fleener out wide, Hern in the slot, Vereen in motion or in the other slot. 2 totally different formations using the exact same personnel. I want to see players we can use llike this. This to me (if O'Brien can unscrew his head), is exactly the type of unpredictability this offense is lacking.

    We could still go get Colston, and have somethign totally differnet with he and Price out there together. Options, options.

    Back to defense. I like Worthy with the 2nd of our 1st rounders. He and Vince woudl be a nice duo, with Roth and Carter flanking them. Round it out with Manti, Kuechly or Zach Brown mixed with Mayo/Spikes and the backfield we talked about above and I think that defense has a very different feel to it.

    Now, that pretty much sums up what I would do in FA and via the draft next year. I'm still debating who I can grab beyond round 3 at Center that can provide depth or eventually takeover for Conolly. Any ideas of who is available say round 4-7 at Center that is worth looking at?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Finally, could this PLEASE be the draft where Bill sacrifices a future number one to get a current 2nd rd pick? If someone like Jenkins or Crick fall and we can offer say our 2013 1st (likely 27-32 overall) and our 4th rd pick... for like pick 36-44 (or 44-56 w/o the 4th tossed in).... and nail an impact guy... shouldn't we do that? I want to leave the draft with: - TWO elite pass rushers (doesn't matter LB/DT/DE) - a cover/ballhawk DB (doesn't matter CB/FS) - One of the 4 best Centers - Ryan Broyles That is FIVE pick in the 25-60 range, so IMO we need to move into that range somehow for 1 more pick. This team has depth, it needs TALENT.... add 2-4 REALLY good FA's and keep the guys we like and this team is stacked for the rest of Tom's career
    Posted by rameakap


    I've never seen BB sacrifice a future 1st for a current 2nd. That would be totally out of character unless, unless, someone amazing slipped to the 2nd round and it was a no brainer. I don't see it happening. If anything, he does what he's been doing for the past 5+ years..trade out, trade back, pick up some for the future. I hate saying that, but history proves it.

     
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