***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    mbeau, As far as WR goes, there seems to be a debate growing here on letting Welker walk and signing one of the top 3 FA WR's, all with 6'2"+ size. Marques Colston Vincent Jackson Dwayne Bowe Steve Johnson or keeping Wes and adding a less expensive (and less tall) talent in free agency, and (maybe) a WR in the draft/ Is it safe to say that you would sign Wes asap? Then if the Pats are satisfied Floyd's legal troubles are a non-issue and he is there in the 22-27 range you'd want the team to get him? And finally you would target one of these WR's: Mario Manningham- 6-0 185 WR- NYG Brandon Lloyd- 6-0 188 WR- StL Eddie Royal- 5-10 185 WR- Den guys who prob ask for 3-6 million a year instead of 8-11. So our WR corps next year would be: Welker Floyd Manningham/Lloyd/Royal Branch Price Slater That is a pretty solid group. However, Floyd is less of a burner and more of a red zone threat, jump and grab it kinda guy... I'd think with Gronk and Hernandez we'd have that covered and would need more of a guy with height AND speed
    Posted by rameakap


    rame,
    Yes I prefer to keep the known commodity in Welker and continue to build from there.

    I think Floyd is a great fit in that he has the good size/speed combo, has excellent RAC ability (which fits their scheme) and really gets after it as a blocker.  He's not a burner (i.e. Mike Wallace), but I'm also not one of those people that think they absolutely have to have a burner on the outside... they won 3 titles without a burner.  I just feel that they need players that fit well into there scheme.  Now if Price develops into that deep threat, awesome!  I'm hoping he does get some extended time on the field (as hinted by O'b). 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

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    Yes, those 2nd round WRs have been discussed a bit, but not in depth. I'm worried when I think about the Pats drafting a WR. Now with Ocho this year, I'm worried abotu them picking one up in FA. For some reason, they haven't hit on one in FA since Moss/Welker 2006/07, and via the draft probably since Givens and Branch.

    Also, how much time do you think we would give one to develop? 1-2 years? 2-3 years? before we entrust them with catching passes from TB.

    Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston.
     
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    Yes, those 2nd round WRs have been discussed a bit, but not in depth. I'm worried when I think about the Pats drafting a WR. Now with Ocho this year, I'm worried abotu them picking one up in FA. For some reason, they haven't hit on one in FA since Moss/Welker 2006/07, and via the draft probably since Givens and Branch. Also, how much time do you think we would give one to develop? 1-2 years? 2-3 years? before we entrust them with catching passes from TB. Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston.
    Posted by PatsLifer
    re:

    Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston. 


    we certainly don7 seem to be able to draft and develop rookie receivers. where rookies come in and do well immediately on several other teams

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : PL, I prefer to see them keep Welker, then try to fill out the receiving corp via the draft (Floyd, Broyles etc.) or via FA with one of the second or third type WR's available, i.e. Manningham, Royal, Lloyd etc... I just don't see them spending big $ on of the premier "outside" receivers on the market. I'm also interested to see what kinda burn Price has moving forward (based on O'b's comments this week) and what kind of impact he has on the field... if he plays well, it may negate the need all together. I'll have to research Brown more and hopfully get a look at him... from what I've read, he's more of an athlete at this point.  He has great speed and can make plays sideline to sideline, but is lacking in the instinct/awareness department. A FA CB would make sense and call me crazy, but I'd love to see Cortland Finnegan in Foxboro... I think this defense could use some edge/swagger and toughness.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I agree MB. You can't overlook the chemistry that Brady and Welker have. Welker is the best WR this team could pick up this off-season.

    I'm with you on Price. I really want to see what he can do first. He might be the solution to the outside the numbers threat we need. Face it or luck in draft WR's hasn't been the best lately so I'd rather not take that route again if it's critical we need a WR. Past that I'd like a bigger WR with some speed. Doesn't have to be a burner but be able to get some separation. Someone who will out leap a DB and go after the ball type of player. I'd be alright going draft on this type of guy since most of the larger WR's in FA are #1 high price guys.

    But, with Gronk, Hern, Branch (putting up good #2 numbers this year), and assuming Welker is back (I believe he will) all we are looking for is a #3 outside the numbers WR or a larger possession WR.

    Then add in the RB core and you have something going. I wouldn't even be surprised if Vereen is used in the slot or as a possible outside he numbers receiver more then RB.

    O to me is second priority this off-season. If a deal or draft pick falls into ours laps great otherwise all focus should be on D imo
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    i just developed a man crush 3 alabama players

    upshaw
    kirkpatrick
    richardson

    i would not mind lacy too

     
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    All right MB and PatsEng...I get it..Welker and TB have chemsitry and he perhaps is probably the cog that makes this offense go...can't afford to lose him. I'll vote to resign him then. Under one condition...we go after a guy in FA that is big/fast and can catch passes beyond 15 yards. Someone that will require the Jets for example to put Revis on all game, and maybe even require safety help from time to time. We need this to open those underneath and middle routes...Too many teams now are learning how to beat us and take away our short game.

    I'm with PatsEng on the draft needs. MORE focus put on the defense...again.

    Here are some questions for the group....
    1. Do you draft another CB early, or target an FA that can compliment McCourty on the other side?...someone like RMathis from Jacksonville for example...

    2. Do you draft a DL/DE that will take either Ellis, Haynesworth, or Warren's spot, and might be actually starting next to VW? Again, I see Love/Pryor/Brace/Deaderick as decent depth and rotational players...I want a stud DL that penetrates, or a DE that wreaks havoc.

    3. Do you draft a WR or grab one via FA? Again, since we are keen on resigning Welker, I'll assume we might want to grab a bigger, more physical WR. They can be had in rounds 1, 2 and probably 3. Maybe even 4-7...It depends however if you want this kid starting sooner than later. Meaning, we might have to take one high.

    4. Where do you draft your Center? Do you agree we need one? Personally, I would love to upgrade Connolly, but if we could get one later and use early rounds on skill players, I'd prefer that.

    5. IF you elect us drafting a CB, then do we pick a Safety up in FA? My personal opinion is we wither draft a CB or Safety, and pick the other up in FA. I think both the Safety and CB positions in FA are going to be pretty good. Looking at where we draft and talent, I feel better about drafting a Safety in round 2 to play next to Chung, and grabbing a vet CB in FA next to McCourty.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Now that broyles has had a serious injury belichick will almost certainly select him to become a patriot
     
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    All right MB and PatsEng...I get it..Welker and TB have chemsitry and he perhaps is probably the cog that makes this offense go...can't afford to lose him. I'll vote to resign him then. Under one condition...we go after a guy in FA that is big/fast and can catch passes beyond 15 yards. Someone that will require the Jets for example to put Revis on all game, and maybe even require safety help from time to time. We need this to open those underneath and middle routes...Too many teams now are learning how to beat us and take away our short game. I'm with PatsEng on the draft needs. MORE focus put on the defense...again. Here are some questions for the group.... 1. Do you draft another CB early, or target an FA that can compliment McCourty on the other side?...someone like RMathis from Jacksonville for example... 2. Do you draft a DL/DE that will take either Ellis, Haynesworth, or Warren's spot, and might be actually starting next to VW? Again, I see Love/Pryor/Brace/Deaderick as decent depth and rotational players...I want a stud DL that penetrates, or a DE that wreaks havoc. 3. Do you draft a WR or grab one via FA? Again, since we are keen on resigning Welker, I'll assume we might want to grab a bigger, more physical WR. They can be had in rounds 1, 2 and probably 3. Maybe even 4-7...It depends however if you want this kid starting sooner than later. Meaning, we might have to take one high. 4. Where do you draft your Center? Do you agree we need one? Personally, I would love to upgrade Connolly, but if we could get one later and use early rounds on skill players, I'd prefer that. 5. IF you elect us drafting a CB, then do we pick a Safety up in FA? My personal opinion is we wither draft a CB or Safety, and pick the other up in FA. I think both the Safety and CB positions in FA are going to be pretty good. Looking at where we draft and talent, I feel better about drafting a Safety in round 2 to play next to Chung, and grabbing a vet CB in FA next to McCourty.
    Posted by PatsLifer



    welker has no use against top d's till we have the outside the#s threat. spending big on him would be a waste of money without that #1 receiver.

    wiht the pats lack of ability to pick at several positions it makes tries through the draft very risky for wr's db's, lb's defense period unless its top 10. 

    need a breakaway all purpose back (and becasue we havent played him, we dont klnow if ridleys it, so do we pick up another thru fa?). the #1 receiver (draft or fa), center later in the draft.
          de pass rusher, lb pass rusher. lb tackler who can stay on the field all 3 downs and reasonable in coverage (can we pick up soomeone to do all 3?), 
    free safety. free agent insurance for ras i. 

       we are in the ridiculously same position of having many needs again come draft time (despite having more picks than any other team going to the playoffs yearly). 
         and of course, despite our needs bb probably will trade away picks to coming years (because its an addiction) and not fill positions of need, despite being a few playmakers away from contending for a super bowl.
      jesus. depressing.
     
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    i just developed a man crush 3 alabama players upshaw kirkpatrick richardson i would not mind lacy too
    Posted by seattlepat70



    seattle youre not a sec fan?
    sounds like you havent had a chance to watch bama much lately.
    they should go in the top end of the draft for sure.
     
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    Now that broyles has had a serious injury belichick will almost certainly select him to become a patriot
    Posted by patthepatriot666


    You mock but ACL surgery has come a long way and truth is an ACL tear is recoverable in about a year now a days.

    If Broyles falls far in the draft to the late 4th early 5th I would look into trading a pick next year to get him. You can PuP him and let him work into the O next year. Well worth a mid day 3 pick
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : welker has no use against top d's till we have the outside the#s threat. spending big on him would be a waste of money without that #1 receiver. wiht the pats lack of ability to pick at several positions it makes tries through the draft very risky for wr's db's, lb's defense period unless its top 10.  need a breakaway all purpose back (and becasue we havent played him, we dont klnow if ridleys it, so do we pick up another thru fa?). the #1 receiver (draft or fa), center later in the draft.       de pass rusher, lb pass rusher. lb tackler who can stay on the field all 3 downs and reasonable in coverage (can we pick up soomeone to do all 3?),  free safety. free agent insurance for ras i.     we are in the ridiculously same position of having many needs again come draft time (despite having more picks than any other team going to the playoffs yearly).       and of course, despite our needs bb probably will trade away picks to coming years (because its an addiction) and not fill positions of need, despite being a few playmakers away from contending for a super bowl.   jesus. depressing.
    Posted by bredbru


    bre,
    I disagree, they have a Super Bowl caliber offense (w/ Welker as the main target), one of the best in the league... I'm not of the belief that a pure #1, elite "outside" WR is a must have and think that's a thought perpetuated by the fluky 2007 season.  Instead, I think you allocate the money to Welker and try to compliment him with a solid 2nd or 3rd tier type WR through FA and/or maybe spend a late Rd 1 (Michael Floyd) or Rd 2 pick on a potential #1 which I think is more cost effective than bidding on a premier "outside guy" (allowing them to maybe target a premium impact defender (LaRon Landry) assuming he's not franchised.  At the same time, if they decide to buck the trend and trade up for Justin Blackmon, there won't be a happier Patriots fan than me.  

    The first step to determining what you need moving forward -IMO- is to see what you have in Price, he's the wild card.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : You mock but ACL surgery has come a long way and truth is an ACL tear is recoverable in about a year now a days. If Broyles falls far in the draft to the late 4th early 5th I would look into trading a pick next year to get him. You can PuP him and let him work into the O next year. Well worth a mid day 3 pick
    Posted by PatsEng


    Agreed.  While I feel sick to my stomach for the kid, this does represent a buy low situation.
     
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    Thoughts on targeting Cortland Finnegan (assuming he's not franchised) in free agency?  He's a PITA for opposing teams and I think his tough, ultra-competitive attitude would be an asset to this defense.
     
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    All right MB and PatsEng...I get it..Welker and TB have chemsitry and he perhaps is probably the cog that makes this offense go...can't afford to lose him. I'll vote to resign him then. Under one condition...we go after a guy in FA that is big/fast and can catch passes beyond 15 yards. Someone that will require the Jets for example to put Revis on all game, and maybe even require safety help from time to time. We need this to open those underneath and middle routes...Too many teams now are learning how to beat us and take away our short game. I'm with PatsEng on the draft needs. MORE focus put on the defense...again. Here are some questions for the group.... 1. Do you draft another CB early, or target an FA that can compliment McCourty on the other side?...someone like RMathis from Jacksonville for example... 2. Do you draft a DL/DE that will take either Ellis, Haynesworth, or Warren's spot, and might be actually starting next to VW? Again, I see Love/Pryor/Brace/Deaderick as decent depth and rotational players...I want a stud DL that penetrates, or a DE that wreaks havoc. 3. Do you draft a WR or grab one via FA? Again, since we are keen on resigning Welker, I'll assume we might want to grab a bigger, more physical WR. They can be had in rounds 1, 2 and probably 3. Maybe even 4-7...It depends however if you want this kid starting sooner than later. Meaning, we might have to take one high. 4. Where do you draft your Center? Do you agree we need one? Personally, I would love to upgrade Connolly, but if we could get one later and use early rounds on skill players, I'd prefer that. 5. IF you elect us drafting a CB, then do we pick a Safety up in FA? My personal opinion is we wither draft a CB or Safety, and pick the other up in FA. I think both the Safety and CB positions in FA are going to be pretty good. Looking at where we draft and talent, I feel better about drafting a Safety in round 2 to play next to Chung, and grabbing a vet CB in FA next to McCourty.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    1) I hope they don't go early on another CB pick. I've said it time and time again the D is won in the trenches and ripples out. No more patch job vets in the trenches I wany studs that will carry the team for the next 7 years. However, if a kid like Jenkins is available late 2nd early 3rd then this kid has top 15 talent. You almost have to take him at that point.

    2) I agree I want a stud DE. What I'd like is to bring back Carter for the experience and as a mentor then get a stud pass rusher. I'd also like to find someone to put next to Wilfork for the future. I don't see Brace as a solution and I'm not sure how long Deadrick will be with the teams given the grumbles of his attitude in the locker room. Pyror is a nice player but I don't see him as anything more then a Green. The problem is that outside the early 2nd I just don't see many good rushing DL. I see some good talent in the 15-40 range but not much outside

    3) Again I agree I want a big physical WR in the mold of Malcom Floyd or Burress (in prime). Whether that's through FA or draft I don't know. This draft has some big WR's with talent and in FA most of the larger possession WR's are going to be looking for #1 WR money. The one wild card is Broyles. With his ACL torn he could fall to mid to day 3 territory. If we trade back and acquire another 4th or trade a 3rd next year for a 4th this year I would gladly take the risk on his knee and grab Broyles. One name I've been happy to run into recently is Marvin McNutt. This kid isn't the fastest player but at 6'4" 215 he outfits for the ball and I've seen him drag cb's with him. Did I mention he runs crisp routes? I also believe Kansas mentioned Tommy Steeter. Another tall hard noised WR that's made some big plays this year

    4) I don't draft one early lol. We have possible the greatest OL coach in Scar. I'd look rounds 4-6. I agree Connolly needs an upgrade by he's serviceable for another year if a new C needs training. The one thing about C's is that the best go early but then those C's we all think fall in the 2-3 round range tend to drop to the 4-7 range. There's no need to grab one early if you have other holes to fill. Also given the size we'll put around him (Vollmer, Solder, Cannon, Mankins) we don't need a large powerful C but can learn back on smarter pass protect C's that can help point out blitzers (ie Koppen type). Think Ben Habern, who broke his arm. He'll be found in the later rounds but it's clear that OU's OL has not functioned the same without him. They have trouble picking up blitzes and at times look lost without their anchor on the line

    5) I don't think we go early again on CB. It would just be to much to take for BB's pride after Wheatly then Butler then drafting another would show that he has no confidence in either McCourty or Ras. If they do draft a CB early though you might see them move Ras to FS to fill Meri's hole. As for S's we don't need a SS. Chung fills that role and Barrett or Ihendigbo are decent enough to be backup SS. The issue is coverage FS. Their are a couple of really good coverage FS's in the draft this year that will fall in the 2-3 round range one of which is Lester. If you go S I would go with a young draft pick if you feel McCourty, Ras, and Arrington can pick up the pace in coverage. But, if you don't have much confidence in those 3 in coverage then you almost have to go with an experienced vet who can make up for their deficiencies. This is where Sanders really could have helped this year
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Thoughts on targeting Cortland Finnegan (assuming he's not franchised) in free agency?  He's a PITA for opposing teams and I think his tough, ultra-competitive attitude would be an asset to this defense.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I really like Finnegan but I'd have to wait to see asking price. If it's a Bodden type of contract, then welcome to the team.

    But, If you can get Jenkins in the early 3rd and they feel Ras can stay on the field then I'm comfortable with a CB core of Jenkins, McCourty, Ras, Arrington. I'd rather spend money or picks on a cover FS though
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : seattle youre not a sec fan? sounds like you havent had a chance to watch bama much lately. they should go in the top end of the draft for sure.
    Posted by bredbru


    it's a foolish bias of mine - a relic of days living in my local bubble. 

    i always start the year liking teams from where i live/lived. it used to be the northeast, so i liked the big east mainly the new england teams (ucon and bc before they moved to the acc) and acc (because of bc). for some unexplainable reason, i also always like the the  big 10. now its mostly pac 10/12. i think this is also because, growing up, i was more a basketball guy. 

    by mid-season, after watching the sec games, i turn around - better late than never i guess. 

    by end of season i have a pretty balanced view of the world. in fact by end of season, i realize ho much the boston fans overrate players from bc ucon.


     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Agree on Price... but again he is only 6'... likely only to be a David Givens #3 type reciever... which would of course be awesome. But Branch in 2012 needs to be a #4 and if Welker is ur #1.... you'd want your #2 to have some size. What is your opinion on the 4 WR's at least 1 of who could be there for us at the end of rd 2, that are all 6'4" Toon, Fuller, Criner, McNutt?
    Posted by rameakap


    I'm just not of the belief that you need a big WR, don't see any evidence that it's an indicator of offensive success.  For example, players like Greg Jennings, Steve Smith, Mike Wallace, Reggie Wayne, Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson etc., are all at or below 6 feet tall and all are or have #1 WR potential.

    Of the players listed, I'd have to say Fuller probably has the biggest upside of that group... he's had a tough year with injuries, but he has legit #1 WR potential.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : it's a foolish bias of mine - a relic of days living in my local bubble.  i always start the year liking teams from where i live/lived. it used to be the northeast, so i liked the big east mainly the new england teams (ucon and bc before they moved to the acc) and acc (because of bc). for some unexplainable reason, i also always like the the  big 10. now its mostly pac 10/12. i think this is also because, growing up, i was more a basketball guy.  by mid-season, after watching the sec games, i turn around - better late than never i guess.  by end of season i have a pretty balanced view of the world. in fact by end of season, i realize ho much the boston fans overrate players from bc ucon.
    Posted by seattlepat70

    "by mid-season, after watching the sec games, i turn around - better late than never i guess".

    :)


    thanks  for the fun get-to-know seattle post!


    living in the "pacific"
    grew up in the northeast
    lived in the southeast

    brd/bred
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    This years draft would be made so much easier if we spent some serious $ on the defense in free agency. Say you sign: CB Cortland Finnegan - 5/30 DE Robert Mathis - 4/26 FS Goldson/Godfrey - 5/20 DE/OLB Matt Roth - 4/14 I think we can afford to drop an average of 5 million per year per guy on 4 players to help at different positions over the D. We can keep Carter at like 2 years 5-7 million. Choose between either Ellis's option (2.5) or Warren (1 year/1.5). Hayensworth is younger than both those guys and should get 1 more shot on the cheap with an entire offseason to improve conditioning. We'd play more 4-3 than 3-4 next year with Mathis/Carter/Haynsworth vets on board. In that vein I think we'd just have to get a faster LB to complement Spikes/Mayo on the inside, Guyton remains depth. A guy who can play ILB in a 3-4 and OLB in a 4-3. Zach Brown or Manti Te'o would be ideal. Hopefully one of these two is available w/ the better of our 2 firsts. Then Cunningham really needs to be developed, as an OLB in a 3-4 and play there with Roth when we switch to that scheme. Nink is depth. We could even use one of our 2nd rd picks on a DE/OLB type like Brandon Jenkins, Bruce Irvin, Whitney Mercilus, Brandon Lindsey. A guy who eventually replaces Carter in 1-2 years. We should use our other 1st rd pick on a DE/DT who can add youth to the front and be simply better than Brace/Deaderick/Love. Like Worthy as many here mentioned, Crick if he is looking healthy at pro-day, Billy Winn and Devon Still are options on a lot of moack drafts. We should use our other 2nd on one of the tall 6'4" WR's.... hopefully one is still there. Criner, Toon, McNutt, Fuller. This guy would be getting the reps Ocho got this year. Branch would see his role reduced and Price would hopefully take over more of the 2-3 WR role. In the 3rd-4th rd's many here are predicting a Center like Ben Jones is still on the board, or if he is not maybe TE Cory Fleener, who is a favorite. Depending on where you see Ras-I's future you could go CB here or FS. Broyles may now be there with our 4th rd pick. I'd trade a 2nd or 3rd in 2013 for a3rd or 4th this year if it meant getting a future starting C many felt would go round 2 in rd 3, or Broyles, who would replace Branch when he is back to being 100%.
    Posted by rameakap

    your thinkins good (cept for developing cunningham-probably keep him a year [unfortunately] tehn release him).

    the big problem is you have to get any of that past bb.

    and EVEN BIGGER, WE STILL HAVE CRAPPY COACHES.

    thanks for the post rame

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Thoughts on targeting Cortland Finnegan (assuming he's not franchised) in free agency?  He's a PITA for opposing teams and I think his tough, ultra-competitive attitude would be an asset to this defense.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I don't like Finnegan at all BUT, this D is missing a sparkplug and this guy will make guys raly around him for some reason and he's a decent CB.  He might be to expensive but I would.  As long as he stays out of trouble off the field his antics on the field are fine.  This D needs to get some thugging in it and I hate that I just said that but they need the fear factor brought back. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'm just not of the belief that you need a big WR, don't see any evidence that it's an indicator of offensive success.  For example, players like Greg Jennings, Steve Smith, Mike Wallace, Reggie Wayne, Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson etc., are all at or below 6 feet tall and all are or have #1 WR potential. Of the players listed, I'd have to say Fuller probably has the biggest upside of that group... he's had a tough year with injuries, but he has legit #1 WR potential.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I agree. They don't need to be Ramses Barden like at 6'6", but they do need to be athletic. The guys you mention MB are athletic. We really don't have much of that on the team period. At teh WR spot, Branch and Ocho were once guys like the above, but their time has just about come and gone. That leaves Wes. Not a ton of speed, but quick..perfect slot receiver.

    Just give me a fast twitch WR like the above mentioned. In fact give me 2. If you look at GB, they are loaded at WR. Guys of varying sizes, but all athletes. Same with Pitt. Shoulda coulda, but we coulda had Sanders or Wallace. We all talked about them both a while back. 

    If we get 2 speedy, athletic WRs oppostie Welker, I like this offense a bit more, in terms of opening things up for Gronk and Hern as well. It will be much more dynamic and we would have weapons to play long or short ball depending upon opponent. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I agree. They don't need to be Ramses Barden like at 6'6", but they do need to be athletic. The guys you mention MB are athletic. We really don't have much of that on the team period. At teh WR spot, Branch and Ocho were once guys like the above, but their time has just about come and gone. That leaves Wes. Not a ton of speed, but quick..perfect slot receiver. Just give me a fast twitch WR like the above mentioned. In fact give me 2. If you look at GB, they are loaded at WR. Guys of varying sizes, but all athletes. Same with Pitt. Shoulda coulda, but we coulda had Sanders or Wallace. We all talked about them both a while back.  If we get 2 speedy, athletic WRs oppostie Welker, I like this offense a bit more, in terms of opening things up for Gronk and Hern as well. It will be much more dynamic and we would have weapons to play long or short ball depending upon opponent. 
    Posted by PatsLifer



    f we get 2 speedy, athletic WRs oppostie Welker, I like this offense a bit more, in terms of opening things up for Gronk and Hern as well'

    thats what ive been saying for a while along with the need for an all purpose back threat. (ridley or elsewhere).
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I don't like Finnegan at all BUT, this D is missing a sparkplug and this guy will make guys raly around him for some reason and he's a decent CB.  .... 
    Posted by Pats7393


    i agree, but i for some reason i feel bb does not like those. he's let go of quite a few.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Last year many were disappointed that no pass rush upgarde came with all those early draft picks. While that is a glaring problem now (no surprise) and shows up as part of the poor pass D last years draft did bring some very important - CRITICAL - talent:
    (1) There was a critically dangerous situation on the O line. Mankins was not signed and it looked like he might go. Light's contact was also coming due. Starting RG Neil was retiring. Light and center Koppen were getting old. You cant run or pass with a bad O line. So something had to be done. BB used his first pick to get perhaps the best pass blocking OT this team has seen. OK - too early to say THAT but he is obviously a very good player and at one of the most critical positions. THey also used a later round pick on Cannon.
    (2) They did trade down giving NO a chance to take Ingram and giving up a chance to take someone who could deliver a pass rush. On the surface this seems a bad choice. But they got a 2nd and a first next year. THere really are FEW players that are worth as much as 2 good players. Espcially in the current league with all the injuries you see. DEPTH of the roster is CRITICAL. It is hard to argue with that move.
    (3) THey got a CB (now on IR) who looks like he has a shot at being good. No question CB remains a critical need. Especially when teams regularly put 3 (or even 4) on the field at the same time. It was a reasonable pick for a real need.
    (4) There was no true feature RB. BJGE is a very good dependable player but he does not make the D honor the run to the extent that it helps open up some of the passing zones. THis because he just does not have a second let alone a third gear. He is not able to break big plays. After BJGE Woodhead was the only RB without gray hair. And Faulk was coming off a serious injury. SO RB was a real, critical need. They got Vereen ( who I think could turn out to be something big) and Ridley (who looks very good when he is on the field). It covered the critical need that could have left the team in a very dangerous situation.
    (5) They took Mallet in round 3. Too good a QB to let slide. To much value. Perhaps as a future trade for more value. Perhaps as an eventual heir to TB. Hard to be too critical of that pick.

    SO last years draft did a lot. THis next draft will hopefully do thae same for other areas. Hopefully first and foremost in the front seven of the D. THey need 2 DEs. THey need 1-2 outside LBs. Depending on Pryor and Haynesworth (I have a wait and see on Brace and not yet too thrille with Love) they might not need a DT.

    If the 2012 draft (and free agency) can rebuild the (rest) of the front seven the D will quickly be a strength. They also need one or more safeties and still could use a good cover corner (and hope the draft and FA help there) but if you rebuild the front seven it will make a huge difference in both run and pass D and allow the O to be smart and efficient and allow TB not to feel like he has to do more than he can. I think he (TB) is playing poorly (for TB) because he believes he needs to do more.

    So - 2012 should be first and foremost about the front 7 with emphasis on DEs and outside LBs (whether 3-4 or 4-3, I do not care).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Last year many were disappointed that no pass rush upgarde came with all those early draft picks. While that is a glaring problem now (no surprise) and shows up as part of the poor pass D last years draft did bring some very important - CRITICAL - talent: (1) There was a critically dangerous situation on the O line. Mankins was not signed and it looked like he might go. Light's contact was also coming due. Starting RG Neil was retiring. Light and center Koppen were getting old. You cant run or pass with a bad O line. So something had to be done. BB used his first pick to get perhaps the best pass blocking OT this team has seen. OK - too early to say THAT but he is obviously a very good player and at one of the most critical positions. THey also used a later round pick on Cannon. (2) They did trade down giving NO a chance to take Ingram and giving up a chance to take someone who could deliver a pass rush. On the surface this seems a bad choice. But they got a 2nd and a first next year. THere really are FEW players that are worth as much as 2 good players. Espcially in the current league with all the injuries you see. DEPTH of the roster is CRITICAL. It is hard to argue with that move. (3) THey got a CB (now on IR) who looks like he has a shot at being good. No question CB remains a critical need. Especially when teams regularly put 3 (or even 4) on the field at the same time. It was a reasonable pick for a real need. (4) There was no true feature RB. BJGE is a very good dependable player but he does not make the D honor the run to the extent that it helps open up some of the passing zones. THis because he just does not have a second let alone a third gear. He is not able to break big plays. After BJGE Woodhead was the only RB without gray hair. And Faulk was coming off a serious injury. SO RB was a real, critical need. They got Vereen ( who I think could turn out to be something big) and Ridley (who looks very good when he is on the field). It covered the critical need that could have left the team in a very dangerous situation. (5) They took Mallet in round 3. Too good a QB to let slide. To much value. Perhaps as a future trade for more value. Perhaps as an eventual heir to TB. Hard to be too critical of that pick. SO last years draft did a lot. THis next draft will hopefully do thae same for other areas. Hopefully first and foremost in the front seven of the D. THey need 2 DEs. THey need 1-2 outside LBs. Depending on Pryor and Haynesworth (I have a wait and see on Brace and not yet too thrille with Love) they might not need a DT. If the 2012 draft (and free agency) can rebuild the (rest) of the front seven the D will quickly be a strength. They also need one or more safeties and still could use a good cover corner (and hope the draft and FA help there) but if you rebuild the front seven it will make a huge difference in both run and pass D and allow the O to be smart and efficient and allow TB not to feel like he has to do more than he can. I think he (TB) is playing poorly (for TB) because he believes he needs to do more. So - 2012 should be first and foremost about the front 7 with emphasis on DEs and outside LBs (whether 3-4 or 4-3, I do not care).
    Posted by portfolio1


    Hey port,

    good to see you back on the draft thread. I just have some commentary on those points:

    1) Agree. OL was a place of weakness and so was pass rush. i think we all expected them to grab an OL and a pass rush with 2 of those top 33 picks. OL was the choice and it looked like a good choice with Solder

    2) We traded back a #1 to get Vereen, NO's #1 next year and gave us room to trade back our pick to Hou for Ridley and Cannon. Now They might have traded their pick back anyways so, that second part might be moot. Lets look at only the trade for a second. So far no one knows what Vereen is but since he's been an active no show for a number of games that's very concerning. As of right now it looks like we trade our #1 in 11' for a #1 in 12' in about the same position. Until Vereen can actually get on the field let alone be productive I don't count him as depth at all. As of right now that was a terrible trade but it's all dependent on Vereen

    3) Ras is on IR and this was the knock on him coming out of college was that he was injury prone. A number of posters including myself pointed out time and time again that he was injury prone and it would be a gamble to take him early. If this was a late 2nd or early 3rd pick then you can say you took a chance on a 1st round talent guy with some injury issues but with the 33rd pick? It's basically a 1st round right there. If Ras can't stay healthy I don't see him long for the NFL and would yet again be another wasted high round pick.

    4) I agree but Vereen being healthy inactive and cannot seem to get on the field really at all is very concerning. I don't know what to make of it. Ridley started out with a bang but has since sputtered to a halt. It might be due to lack of touches or lack of confidence but as of right now both RB selections aren't looking great. The one thing about RB selections is normally they can start week 1 as a rook and be productive. It's unusual they take a long time to adapt to a system so with Ridley and Vereen not getting a lot of touches it's disconcerting to say the least

    5) Mallett was a gamble and still is. Can he keep his head straight and be happy on the bench until Brady retires? If so he can be a bigger steal then Rodgers if not then he's another O'Connell. There's a reason he went from a top 15 talent to the 3rd round. We'll have to wait and see

    I use to think that the 09', 10', 11' drafts were amazing given the shear amount of high round picks but when you break it down it paints a scary picture on how many picks were thrown away. I don't just mean in terms of players no longer on the team but also players who were expected to be average starters at worst and ended up being rotational backups. It seems that trading back and acquiring a ton of picks will get you decent depth and at least 1 solid starter every year but you don't get the impact players. I've seen that it's almost impossible to find an impact player in the 2nd and 3rd round yet the closer you are to #1 the more likely you have to find one. I know this doesn't come as much of a shock but when you realize that the depth and getting a ton of picks haven't worked at all for this team over the last 3 years and what's missing, on D at least, is a player who other teams need to account for then it's maddening not to move up and take a chance on getting an impact player. (BTW look at the depth on D right now. Brown, Barrett, Adams, Molden, White I mean really, that's the best depth they could get in an area of weakness to begin with?)

    The way I look at it is that the Pats in the first 3 rounds get a solid starter with 25% of their picks or at least a backup role player on 40% of those picks. So, what are the odds that if you moved up to a top 20 pick that you'd find at minimum a solid starter or better? I'd put it closer to 50%. So, you slightly decrease the odds of getting a solid player every year but, you are drastically increasing your odds of getting an impact player if every so often you move up to get one. I don't mean take the Jets approach but when you have the extra ammo and have a critical need that requires an impact player spend a couple of chips to go after the jackpot. As a wise man once said, "you can't win if you never play" and another said "if you go for broke and lose then what do you have to show but that you are a fool" but there has to be a happy median. I have to believe when an area of need has a lot of depth in the draft that you move chips to take a risk on show of that talent and when the draft is weak or your needs are minimized is when you hold back for more. It seems the philosophy regardless of strength of certain positions or need on the team is to trade back and get value instead of move forward for talent. It's just like gameday. If you only run 1 game plan constantly you will lose, you need to adjust and plan around your weaknesses and the strengths of what's in front of you.
     
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