***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]It would be cool if Broyles falls all the way to our own 2nd rd pick as I see him, like others here, as a great Brady reciever who can do a lot of what Troy/Deion/Gaffney/Welker did here for so many years. His one handed TD grab last weekend was awesome. I agree with you that we have the personel to replace Welker easier than we do of getting a Colston, Jackson or Dwayne Bowe guy cheap or thru the draft... so we may have to sacrifice Wes to sign an 8-10 million a year WR. Hopefully the Edelman thing blows over so we can go cheap in the slot and short game. With him, Vereen, Woodhead, Broyles, Hernandez and Branch/Faulk factoring in, I'm sure Brady would rather have a star deep threat outside the line WR to replace Ocho with than Wes if he really told you the truth. Those are enough guys to play the short-pass no-huddle dink-and dunk 5-wide that is Brady's bread and butter.... if you have a great in his prime 6'4" all-pro lined up outside as well.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    "... if you have a great in his prime 6'4" all-pro lined up outside as well. "

    you gotta have this guy (as well as the breakaway back threat who is also a threat to catch a pass-find out if ridley is it by playing him rest of the year and price) or good defenses will shut down the te's and short guys
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Finally, could this PLEASE be the draft where Bill sacrifices a future number one to get a current 2nd rd pick?

    re:"if someone like Jenkins or Crick fall and we can offer say our 2013 1st (likely 27-32 overall) and our 4th rd pick... for like pick 36-44 (or 44-56 w/o the 4th tossed in).... and nail an impact guy... shouldn't we do that?

    da, what we've lacked HAS been impact guys, so yes of course WE'RRE WITH YOU (and i said this last year leading up to the draft)

    I want to leave the draft with:

    - TWO elite pass rushers (doesn't matter LB/DT/DE)

    DOES MAtter imo - gotta have an above avg lb foremost,  pass rushing de., anohter dl

    - a cover/ballhawk DB (doesn't matter CB/FS)

    does matter. we need the fs.

    - One of the 4 best Centers

    not sure about that. we need a guy who can become above average vs not getting what we have higher needs for with the top 2 rounds or even 3 rounds of picks. i e i'd prefer a 3rd or 4th rounds center, unless we satisfy more of our top need through f.a. before the draft.

    - Ryan Broyles

    im not stuck on him. outside receiver more important. sure hed be great to have.


    That is FIVE pick in the 25-60 range, so IMO we need to move into that range somehow for 1 more pick.

    totally down with moving up (and sacrificing picks in future- bb never goes this way though).

    This team has depth, it needs TALENT.... add 2-4 REALLY good FA's and keep the guys we like and this team is stacked for the rest of Tom's career"

    yep, been saying that since i started looking at it last yr
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:

    Thanks.
    I think there are some quality FA's next year at positions of need. We need to open up the wallet a bit, but I would love to have a veteran corner opposite McCourty like Mathis from Jacksonville than drafting another young kid to play corner. If we do that, then I want to draft a FS. I like T.J. McDonald personally. He next to Chung, Mathis next to McCourty sounds about right. Add in Ras and Arrington, and that is a nice defensive backfield.


    yeah i suggested lester or mcd.


    I think what we do at WR is probably the most compelling story to follow here. So many want us to resign Welker, and I'm one of them. However, it depends on what he wants money wise. If he takes a team friendly contract, I am inclined to do it. If not, I let him walk.


    totally concur
    excellent outside wr much more important to this team.
    id like both but...


    I now he is Brady's binkie, but so what.
    I know I mentioned Colston in a previous post, and I like him. He is that big, strong WR that we might need on the outside. We have really nothing outside unless PRice shows up...jury out so far. Even still, he's not Colston just yet. So, it depends on what we want to do with that position.

    Half of me wants to make the full transition to 2 big TE's with Hern out there as well.

    hard to disagree.


     This is why I want Fleener. He is in the mold of Gronk. Imagine Gronk and Fleener on the line, Hern in the backfield lead blocking, with Vereen or Ridley running the ball. OR using the same personnel, split Gronk and Fleener out wide, Hern in the slot, Vereen in motion or in the other slot. 2 totally different formations using the exact same personnel. I want to see players we can use llike this. This to me (if O'Brien can unscrew his head), is exactly the type of unpredictability this offense is lacking.


    hello!! we're on the same page

    We could still go get Colston, and have somethign totally differnet with he and Price out there together. Options, options.

    at the same time, no imo. but gotta have 1 go-to outside very good receiver who can also get off the bump, has height, ball skills, speed and hands.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I've never seen BB sacrifice a future 1st for a current 2nd. That would be totally out of character unless, unless, someone amazing slipped to the 2nd round and it was a no brainer. I don't see it happening. If anything, he does what he's been doing for the past 5+ years..trade out, trade back, pick up some for the future. I hate saying that, but history proves it.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    yeah. too our demise, his brain is hardwired one way.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    brd, I hope BB doesnt trade a future 1st for a current 2nd.  The only exception would be a guy that just jumped out at us and was an inexplainable drop, kind of like Big Vince falling to us that year, but he would have needed to fall to rd 2. 

    On C's, get us one that can hold up against NTs.

    CB and/or FS I hope one in a FA pick up.  I like Ras I when he plays, but think he will be an off again on again guy due to injuries for us.

    WR, I would like a deep threat that if 6'5 ish, but those are not common

    DE/OLB, please get us some pass rush, anywhere and everywhere.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    does matter. we need the fs.

    my point was that if we draft a CB, it 'doesn't matter' for the safety position b/c we then would have had to signed Godfrey, Griffin, Goldson or any of the solid FA safeties out there...

    AND that Ras-I has ideal FS size

    Obviously we can't leave free agency and the draft without a quality safety
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : "... if you have a great in his prime 6'4" all-pro lined up outside as well. " you gotta have this guy (as well as the breakaway back threat who is also a threat to catch a pass-find out if ridley is it by playing him rest of the year and price) or good defenses will shut down the te's and short guys
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    Agree, we ahve to see what Ridley/Price have got before free agency and the draft

    Even then Price seems like  aDavid Givens type, 6' and strong but not your vertical all-word type WR
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Ok here's the list of FA's for next year

    http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2011/contract_year_players.cfm

    Now how I see it the stable positions that don't need anything more then depth are:

    QB, OT, OG, P, K,

    ILB - If we go back to 34 then Spikes and Mayo are a good combo. If we stay more on the 43 side Spikes has played well and Fletcher/Tarp provides good depth

    The positions that can either need depth or could be slightly upgraded:

    TE - Really just need a 3rd TE and D Gronk has been pretty good as a blocking TE so far so that position might be filled

    RB - Ridley seems like the future with BJGE and Woodhead. The only question mark imo is Vereen. Well have to wait and see what he can do but having 4 young talented RB's might make this a filled position

    CB - McCourty is starting to rebound and could revert to last year with the right scheme. Ras looked good when he was on the field so there is hope he could become a #2 if he can stay on the field and Arrington is a good nickel/dime CB. It's hard to tell if they could use another starting CB but they need better depth then Molden or Adams

    The positions that need upgrades or starters:

    S - There is no one behind Chung and there is no FS to help over the top. This is forcing BB to play a very soft zone with CB's 5-10yrds off the line

    OLB/Rushing DE - Need I say more?

    DT/NT - Wilfork is fine and Love is a nice player but can't seem to get to the next level. Love would be best as a back up or a situational player but clearly can be upgraded

    WR - Branch is putting up good #2 numbers but disappears at times and Welker's contract is up. Ocho is useless and we still don't know what Price will become. WR is a issue


    So out of the Pats FA's I'd like to resign BJGE, Carter, Waters and Welker the rest can be dumped

    Out of the FA's I'll take:

    WR - Steve Johnson provided he's not asking for the moon
    FS - Tanard Jackson
    OLB - Stephen Tulloch or Matt Roth
    DE - Calais Campbell

    Right now I'm not seeing a ton of FA's that aren't going to cost an arm or a leg to get so the draft is where they might have to look
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

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    [QUOTE]I just  don't see anyway Brewster is there till the 3rd or Jones till the 4th
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Reason I do think they might is all the d players who could make impacts, there are fast LBs and DEs that will be available and those guys are a premium and everyteam is looking for pass rush.  There are also aside from Luck and USC's QB can't remember his name another 3 QBs who could go late 1st/early 2nd.  So it's just equation of #s only so many picks in the 1st 2 rounds and I think with QBs, few WRs, possible 6 CBs and anywhere between 15 to 20 (DEs, DTs, LBs) add the OTs and there's a chance those OCs fall a bit.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Ok here's the list of FA's for next year http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2011/contract_year_players.cfm Now how I see it the stable positions that don't need anything more then depth are: QB, OT, OG, P, K, ILB - If we go back to 34 then Spikes and Mayo are a good combo. If we stay more on the 43 side Spikes has played well and Fletcher/Tarp provides good depth The positions that can either need depth or could be slightly upgraded: TE - Really just need a 3rd TE and D Gronk has been pretty good as a blocking TE so far so that position might be filled RB - Ridley seems like the future with BJGE and Woodhead. The only question mark imo is Vereen. Well have to wait and see what he can do but having 4 young talented RB's might make this a filled position CB - McCourty is starting to rebound and could revert to last year with the right scheme. Ras looked good when he was on the field so there is hope he could become a #2 if he can stay on the field and Arrington is a good nickel/dime CB. It's hard to tell if they could use another starting CB but they need better depth then Molden or Adams The positions that need upgrades or starters: S - There is no one behind Chung and there is no FS to help over the top. This is forcing BB to play a very soft zone with CB's 5-10yrds off the line OLB/Rushing DE - Need I say more? DT/NT - Wilfork is fine and Love is a nice player but can't seem to get to the next level. Love would be best as a back up or a situational player but clearly can be upgraded WR - Branch is putting up good #2 numbers but disappears at times and Welker's contract is up. Ocho is useless and we still don't know what Price will become. WR is a issue So out of the Pats FA's I'd like to resign BJGE, Carter, Waters and Welker the rest can be dumped Out of the FA's I'll take: WR - Steve Johnson provided he's not asking for the moon FS - Tanard Jackson OLB - Stephen Tulloch or Matt Roth DE - Calais Campbell Right now I'm not seeing a ton of FA's that aren't going to cost an arm or a leg to get so the draft is where they might have to look
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    That's pretty much the same way I feel. Although, I would like to see us upgrade at LB as well. I think we should play 4-3 more going forward. I like us in that alignment, and we really don't have superior personnel in certain positions to be a dominant 3-4 team.

    My ultimate line up on D would look like this.....

        Roth  Jerel Worthy  VW  Carter
            Manti Te'O   Spikes   Mayo
    RMathis                                  McCourty
             Lester/McDonald   Chung


    On the offensive side, as I said above, at teh WR position, it all comes down to where we want to spend the money..inside the numbers (slot WR in Welker) or go get an outside the numbers vet like Colston/Jackson/etc.

    If i had 1 dollar to spend based on who we currently have, I would put that dollar outside in Colston. I would then draft Broyles to play the slot, or use Hern/Edelmen/Vereen to do it. There is going to be a bit of a drop off initially, but a guy like Colston makes it up on the outside because he and PRice will create more for players playing underneath and the short part of the field.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Happy Friday Boys (and Girls)!

    Wanted to touch on a couple of topics that have been discussed over the past couple days:

    1.  Wes Welker:  I don't see how you let this guy walk, he's a must keep, IMO.  They can't afford to let their best players walk, especially on the offensive side of the ball with the defense they have in place.

    2.  Potential FA's:  Wes Welker is the key free agent, (outside of their own) below is an early look at some others that I think may interest them.

    Defense:

    Jarrett Johnson 6-3 260 LB- Baltimore 
    Anthonly Spencer 6-3 260 LB- Dallas
    Jonathan Goff 6-2 242 LB- NYG
    Bryan Thomas 6-4 265 LB- NYJ
    Charles Godfrey 5-11 205 S- Carolina (former Iowa kid)
    Reggie Nelson 5-11 205 S- Cincy
    Tracy Porter- 5-11 196 CB- N.O.
    Aaron Ross- 6-0 190 CB- NYG
    Reggie Smith- 6-1 200 S- SF
    Jim Leonhard- 5-8 190 S- NYJ
    Michael Griffin- 6-0 205 S- Tenn
    Corltand Finnegan- 5-10 188 CB- Tenn (bring some attitude to this D)
    LaRon Landry- 6-0 220 S- Wash
    Thomas DeCoud- 6-2 195 S- Atlanta
    Robert Mathis - 6-2 245 DE/OLB- Indy (Would signal a shift to more 43)
    Kroy Biermann- 6-3 255 DE/OLB- Atlanta
    Adam Carriker- 6-6 315 DT- Wash
    Ahtyba Rubin- 6-2 330 DT- Cleveland
    Pat Sims- 6-2 330 DT- Cincy


    Offense:

    Mario Manningham- 6-0 185 WR- NYG
    Brandon Lloyd- 6-0 188 WR- StL
    Eddie Royal- 5-10 185 WR- Den
    Jacob Hester- 5-11 235 RB- SD


    3.  The Secondary:  The current group is just pathetic.  They don't cover well, don't tackle well and based on what we've heard, read and seen, they don't execute their assignments consistently.  The lack of a consistent pass rush doesn't help, but this group is bad nonetheless.  I think DMC will develop into a solid player, but the delta between how he played as a rookie and how he's playing this year (Isn't tackling well and looks lost in coverage) leaves a lot of cause for concern and while I love Chung, he struggles in coverage and should be more of a box safety.  As for their approach to identifying personnel, particularly in the draft, they REALLY need to scrap their current approach to evaluating these positions or at the very least re-evaluate their current philosophy for identifyinig and developing talent because something is broken, particularly with the CB position.  Since 2003 when they scored Asante Samuel in Rd 4, they've drafted 10 CB's (Christian Morton, Ellis Hobbs, Willie Andrews, Mike Richardson, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Darius Bulter, DMC, Ras-I Dowling, Malcolm Williams) with DMC (and maybe Hobbs) being the only player to excel, though I wouldn't say Hobbs excelled... I also think Ras-I is a talented kid that could easily become a solid player, but he was an injury risk in college and that hasn't changed at the pro level.  Their hit rate at S during that same span is a bit better (Gus Scott, Dexter Reid, James Sanders, Brandon Meriweather, Patrick Chung) with Sanders, Meriweather and Chung developing into starters, but none of which can be considered impact or big play type safeties that excel in coverage, which has been an issue.  I ALSO THINK AN UPGRADE IN DEFENSIVE COACHING TALENT IS NEEDED!!!

    4.  Drafting an OC:  I've been an advocate of this for the past couple years, namely one of the Pouncey brothers, but after seeing how Connolly has performed in a back up capacity, I think think they're fine with using him or potentially taking another late round kid (as they did with Koppen) to groom an eventual replacement.

    5.  What/Who I'd like to see them draft:  I'm spitting into the wind, but I want to see some impact talent on either side of the ball, preferably on the defensive side.  I don't see Justin Blackmon falling to NE, nor do I see them trading up for him (or anyone) in Rd 1, but Michael Floyd (assuming they are OK with his DUI's) is about a complete a receiver as you'll find, big play threat (good RAC ability), plays the game with passion, excellent blocker etc.  On the defensive side of the ball, in a dream scenario, Manti Te'o would land in Foxboro and give this team an instant jolt of toughness, attitude and explosive ability, the kid is a 3 down backer with All-Pro potential... he also will likely be off the board in the Top 10-15, so they'd again need to move up (as would Luke Kuechly he'd also need to add 5-10 pounds, but is as instinctive a player as I've seen).  I'm also onboard with Courtney Upshaw, who doesn't have the height that they prefer, but has size comparable to, gulp, AD, and has the 'Bama/SEC/Saban pedigree and can really get after it (makes a ton of plays: 26 TFL, 11 Sacks, 6 FF, 1 INT returned for a TD, 8 QB hurries over the past two seasons).  Then there's the seamingly perpetual need for CB help where a kid like Morris Claiborne (another Top 10 kid) will likely be appealing as will Chase Minnifield, Brandon Boykin, Dre Kirkpatrick, Janoris Jenkins, Alfonzo Dennard and Stephon Gilmore who may all be available outside the top 15.  I don't see any real impact S's at this point, but there could be some day 2 value with Mark Barron, Ray Ray Armstrong, TJ McDonald, Robert Lester and Harrison Smith.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Finally, could this PLEASE be the draft where Bill sacrifices a future number one to get a current 2nd rd pick? If someone like Jenkins or Crick fall and we can offer say our 2013 1st (likely 27-32 overall) and our 4th rd pick... for like pick 36-44 (or 44-56 w/o the 4th tossed in).... and nail an impact guy... shouldn't we do that? I want to leave the draft with: - TWO elite pass rushers (doesn't matter LB/DT/DE) - a cover/ballhawk DB (doesn't matter CB/FS) - One of the 4 best Centers - Ryan Broyles That is FIVE pick in the 25-60 range, so IMO we need to move into that range somehow for 1 more pick. This team has depth, it needs TALENT.... add 2-4 REALLY good FA's and keep the guys we like and this team is stacked for the rest of Tom's career
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    That's a pretty tall order, how many elite pass rushers do you see in the NFL and you want 2 in one draft plus the other guys.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Happy Friday Boys (and Girls)! Wanted to touch on a couple of topics that have been discussed over the past couple days: 1.  Wes Welker:  I don't see how you let this guy walk, he's a must keep, IMO.  They can't afford to let their best players walk, especially on the offensive side of the ball with the defense they have in place. 2.  Potential FA's:  Wes Welker is the key free agent, (outside of their own) below is an early look at some others that I think may interest them. Defense: Jarrett Johnson 6-3 260 LB- Baltimore  Anthonly Spencer 6-3 260 LB- Dallas Jonathan Goff 6-2 242 LB- NYG Bryan Thomas 6-4 265 LB- NYJ Charles Godfrey 5-11 205 S- Carolina (former Iowa kid) Reggie Nelson 5-11 205 S- Cincy Tracy Porter- 5-11 196 CB- N.O. Aaron Ross- 6-0 190 CB- NYG Reggie Smith- 6-1 200 S- SF Jim Leonhard- 5-8 190 S- NYJ Michael Griffin- 6-0 205 S- Tenn Corltand Finnegan- 5-10 188 CB- Tenn (bring some attitude to this D) LaRon Landry- 6-0 220 S- Wash Thomas DeCoud- 6-2 195 S- Atlanta Robert Mathis - 6-2 245 DE/OLB- Indy (Would signal a shift to more 43) Kroy Biermann- 6-3 255 DE/OLB- Atlanta Adam Carriker- 6-6 315 DT- Wash Ahtyba Rubin- 6-2 330 DT- Cleveland Pat Sims- 6-2 330 DT- Cincy Offense: Mario Manningham- 6-0 185 WR- NYG Brandon Lloyd- 6-0 188 WR- StL Eddie Royal- 5-10 185 WR- Den Jacob Hester- 5-11 235 RB- SD 3.  The Secondary:  The current group is just pathetic.  They don't cover well, don't tackle well and based on what we've heard, read and seen, they don't execute their assignments consistently.  The lack of a consistent pass rush doesn't help, but this group is bad nonetheless.  I think DMC will develop into a solid player, but the delta between how he played as a rookie and how he's playing this year (Isn't tackling well and looks lost in coverage) leaves a lot of cause for concern and while I love Chung, he struggles in coverage and should be more of a box safety.  As for the their approach to identifying personnel, particularly in the draft, they  REALLY need to scrap their current approach to evaluating these positions or at the very least re-evaluate their current process for identifyinig and developing talentbecause something is broken, particularly with CB.  Since 2003 when they scored Asante Samuel in Rd 4, they've drafted  10 CB's (Christian Morton, Ellis Hobbs, Willie Andrews, Mike Richardson, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Darius Bulter, DMC, Ras-I Dowling, Malcolm Williams) with DMC (and maybe Hobbs) being the only player to excel, though I wouldn't say Hobbs excelled... I also think Ras-I is a talented kid that could easily become a solid player, but he was an injury risk in college and that hasn't changed at the pro level.  Their hit rate at S during that same span is a bit better, but (Gus Scott, Dexter Reid, James Sanders, Brandon Meriweather, Patrick Chung) with Sanders, Meriweather and Chung developing into starters, but none of which can be considered impact or big play type safeties that excel in coverage, which has been an issue.  I ALSO THINK AN UPGRADE IN DEFENSIVE COACHING TALENT IS NEEDED!!! 4.  Drafting an OC:  I've been an advocate of this for the past couple years, namely one of the Pouncey brothers, but after seeing how Connolly has performed in a back up capacity, I think think they're fine with using him or potentially taking another late round kid (as they did with Koppen) to groom an eventual replacement. 5.  What/Who I'd like to see them draft:  I'm spitting into the wind, but I want to see some impact talent on either side of the ball, preferably on the defensive side.  I don't see Justin Blackmon falling to NE, nor do I see them trading up for him (or anyone) in Rd 1, but Michael Floyd (assuming they are OK with his DUI's) is about a complete a receiver as you'll find, big play threat (good RAC ability), plays the game with passion, excellent blocker etc.  On the defensive side of the ball, in a dream scenario, Manti Te'o would land in Foxboro and give this team an instant jolt of toughness, attitude and explosive ability, the kid is a 3 down backer with All-Pro potential... he also will likely be off the board in the Top 10-15, so they'd again need to move up (as would Luke Kuechly he'd also need to add 5-10 pounds, but is as instinctive a player as I've seen).  I'm also onboard with Courtney Upshaw, who doesn't have the height that they prefer, but has size comparable to, gulp, AD, but has the 'Bama/SEC/Saban pedigree and can really get after it (makes a ton of plays: 26 TFL, 11 Sacks, 6 FF the past, 1 INT returned for a TD, 8 QB hurries over the past two seasons).  Then there's the seamingly perpetual need for CB help where a kid like Morris Claiborne (another Top 10 kid) will likely be appealing as will Chase Minnifield, Brandon Boykin, Dre Kirkpatrick, Janoris Jenkins, Alfonzo Dennard and Stephon Gilmore who may all be available outside the top 15.  I don't see any real impact S's at this point, but there could be some day 2 value with Mark Barron, Ray Ray Armstrong, TJ McDonald, Robert Lester and Harrison Smith .
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    MB,
    Always, always respect your opinion and agree with you on everything in this post, less to a degree, the part on Welker. He is a critical piece to the offense TODAY, but...if we had more threats at WR like Michael Floyd or Blackmon or lets say 2 top tier WRs outside of Welker, is he as important?
    What is the drop off from Welker to others that could play the slot?...Hernandez, Broyles, Edelman, Vereen?
    Would the roster look stronger say with Colston/Floyd/Blackmon on the outside, Broyles/Hernandez/Edelman in the slot, another big TE like Gronk (Fleener), and Price with another year under his belt.

    I guess my point is if you have to invest in the WR position, where do you stick your money? On the outside or inside? That is what it might come down to. Now, I guess we could go get a kid like Floyd and also resign Welker. Floyd/Price on teh outside, Welker in the slot sounds good as well. It depends on any number of things, and getting the most bang for the buck.

    I'm with you on upgrading the LB corps. I would love to see Manti or Kuelhy here.
    What are your thoughts on Zach Brown out of UNC? If we are running more 4 man lines, Brown is a fantastic 4-3 WOLB. Likely can be had later in round 1 where we pick.
    Any thoughts on Jerel Worthy?

    Personally, I want to see some more speed and playmakers added to the D. I don't think you can go wrong with Manti, Kuehly or Brown at LB.

    I am not for drafting another CB. We need a veteran presence there to compliment McCourty. Without a stellar D coordinator, too much at risk trying to coach young kids up to perform. I'd rather bring in a proven vet on a 2-3 year contract and go from there.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    On another note...

    I understand why we would want to play 3-4, 4-3, and shift within a game. Does that limit the players we need to consider as they need to be more scheme diverse?..meaning, play 4-3 DE + 3-4 OLB?...or 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT?...

    Personally, I would rather us pick 1 primary scheme and draft talent based on that. It would seem easier than trying to find palyers that will fit both equally well.

    The reason I bring this up is because we passed on a LOT of defensive end and tackle talent last draft when supposdely it was very target rich. Probably the richest in recent memory. If BB knew he wanted to play more 4-3, then why not draft a DE or DT rather then ponying up $4.5M for Ellis, signing Haynesworth, etc. We could have easily grabbed a stud DE/DT, resigned Warren for veteran presnece and maybe 1 of the 2 of Ellis/Haynesworth. I don't get it honeslty.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    where the heck is z on the day before the most important day of the year in college football this year. nowhere to be seen. the winner tomorrow (bama/lsu) likely plays for the championship.

    thanks for the posts today guys. will get back and read when i have some time.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    mbeau,

    As far as WR goes, there seems to be a debate growing here on letting Welker walk and signing one of the top 3 FA WR's, all with 6'2"+ size.

    Marques Colston
    Vincent Jackson
    Dwayne Bowe
    Steve Johnson

    or keeping Wes and adding a less expensive (and less tall) talent in free agency, and (maybe) a WR in the draft/

    Is it safe to say that you would sign Wes asap?

    Then if the Pats are satisfied Floyd's legal troubles are a non-issue and he is there in the 22-27 range you'd want the team to get him?

    And finally you would target one of these WR's:

    Mario Manningham- 6-0 185 WR- NYG
    Brandon Lloyd- 6-0 188 WR- StL
    Eddie Royal- 5-10 185 WR- Den


    guys who prob ask for 3-6 million a year instead of 8-11.

    So our WR corps next year would be:

    Welker
    Floyd
    Manningham/Lloyd/Royal
    Branch
    Price
    Slater

    That is a pretty solid group.

    However, Floyd is less of a burner and more of a red zone threat, jump and grab it kinda guy... I'd think with Gronk and Hernandez we'd have that covered and would need more of a guy with height AND speed
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Manningham is 6' and ran an insane 4.42 40 at the combine a few years back, he is faster than Floyd and has good size... if you had him and Floyd outside and Welker in the slot that is pretty hard to defend

    Then Branch and Price are cheap depth guys.

    Price of course ran the 2nd fastest WR 40 in the draft last year at 4.41... so you'd have to think he is currently a better option than Ocho as far as seperation downfield and has the chance to be the same type of talent as Manningham.

    Eddie Royal is a burner too


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    There are a lot of 6'4" recievers who could go in the 2nd rd... did you guys talk about them earlier in this thread?

    Juron Criner, Marvin McNutt, Nick Toon, Jeff Fuller, Mohamad Sanu (6'2")
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : MB, Always, always respect your opinion and agree with you on everything in this post, less to a degree, the part on Welker. He is a critical piece to the offense TODAY, but...if we had more threats at WR like Michael Floyd or Blackmon or lets say 2 top tier WRs outside of Welker, is he as important? What is the drop off from Welker to others that could play the slot?...Hernandez, Broyles, Edelman, Vereen? Would the roster look stronger say with Colston/Floyd/Blackmon on the outside, Broyles/Hernandez/Edelman in the slot, another big TE like Gronk (Fleener), and Price with another year under his belt. I guess my point is if you have to invest in the WR position, where do you stick your money? On the outside or inside? That is what it might come down to. Now, I guess we could go get a kid like Floyd and also resign Welker. Floyd/Price on teh outside, Welker in the slot sounds good as well. It depends on any number of things, and getting the most bang for the buck. I'm with you on upgrading the LB corps. I would love to see Manti or Kuelhy here. What are your thoughts on Zach Brown out of UNC? If we are running more 4 man lines, Brown is a fantastic 4-3 WOLB. Likely can be had later in round 1 where we pick. Any thoughts on Jerel Worthy? Personally, I want to see some more speed and playmakers added to the D. I don't think you can go wrong with Manti, Kuehly or Brown at LB. I am not for drafting another CB. We need a veteran presence there to compliment McCourty. Without a stellar D coordinator, too much at risk trying to coach young kids up to perform. I'd rather bring in a proven vet on a 2-3 year contract and go from there.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    PL,
    I prefer to see them keep Welker, then try to fill out the receiving corp via the draft (Floyd, Broyles etc.) or via FA with one of the second or third type WR's available, i.e. Manningham, Royal, Lloyd etc... I just don't see them spending big $ on of the premier "outside" receivers on the market.

    I'm also interested to see what kinda burn Price has moving forward (based on O'b's comments this week) and what kind of impact he has on the field... if he plays well, it may negate the need all together.

    I'll have to research Brown more and hopfully get a look at him... from what I've read, he's more of an athlete at this point.  He has great speed and can make plays sideline to sideline, but is lacking in the instinct/awareness department.

    A FA CB would make sense and call me crazy, but I'd love to see Cortland Finnegan in Foxboro... I think this defense could use some edge/swagger and toughness.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]mbeau, As far as WR goes, there seems to be a debate growing here on letting Welker walk and signing one of the top 3 FA WR's, all with 6'2"+ size. Marques Colston Vincent Jackson Dwayne Bowe Steve Johnson or keeping Wes and adding a less expensive (and less tall) talent in free agency, and (maybe) a WR in the draft/ Is it safe to say that you would sign Wes asap? Then if the Pats are satisfied Floyd's legal troubles are a non-issue and he is there in the 22-27 range you'd want the team to get him? And finally you would target one of these WR's: Mario Manningham- 6-0 185 WR- NYG Brandon Lloyd- 6-0 188 WR- StL Eddie Royal- 5-10 185 WR- Den guys who prob ask for 3-6 million a year instead of 8-11. So our WR corps next year would be: Welker Floyd Manningham/Lloyd/Royal Branch Price Slater That is a pretty solid group. However, Floyd is less of a burner and more of a red zone threat, jump and grab it kinda guy... I'd think with Gronk and Hernandez we'd have that covered and would need more of a guy with height AND speed
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    rame,
    Yes I prefer to keep the known commodity in Welker and continue to build from there.

    I think Floyd is a great fit in that he has the good size/speed combo, has excellent RAC ability (which fits their scheme) and really gets after it as a blocker.  He's not a burner (i.e. Mike Wallace), but I'm also not one of those people that think they absolutely have to have a burner on the outside... they won 3 titles without a burner.  I just feel that they need players that fit well into there scheme.  Now if Price develops into that deep threat, awesome!  I'm hoping he does get some extended time on the field (as hinted by O'b). 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    Yes, those 2nd round WRs have been discussed a bit, but not in depth. I'm worried when I think about the Pats drafting a WR. Now with Ocho this year, I'm worried abotu them picking one up in FA. For some reason, they haven't hit on one in FA since Moss/Welker 2006/07, and via the draft probably since Givens and Branch.

    Also, how much time do you think we would give one to develop? 1-2 years? 2-3 years? before we entrust them with catching passes from TB.

    Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]Yes, those 2nd round WRs have been discussed a bit, but not in depth. I'm worried when I think about the Pats drafting a WR. Now with Ocho this year, I'm worried abotu them picking one up in FA. For some reason, they haven't hit on one in FA since Moss/Welker 2006/07, and via the draft probably since Givens and Branch. Also, how much time do you think we would give one to develop? 1-2 years? 2-3 years? before we entrust them with catching passes from TB. Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    re:

    Now, I think its all about timing. We need a top notch WR that can step in day 1 and produce. We don't have years to wait. So, you either do that on a "can't miss" draft pick, and the only one I think that is can't miss is Blackmon and maybe, maybe Floyd...or you go get one in FA who plays in a similar style passing offense like Colston. 


    we certainly don7 seem to be able to draft and develop rookie receivers. where rookies come in and do well immediately on several other teams

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : PL, I prefer to see them keep Welker, then try to fill out the receiving corp via the draft (Floyd, Broyles etc.) or via FA with one of the second or third type WR's available, i.e. Manningham, Royal, Lloyd etc... I just don't see them spending big $ on of the premier "outside" receivers on the market. I'm also interested to see what kinda burn Price has moving forward (based on O'b's comments this week) and what kind of impact he has on the field... if he plays well, it may negate the need all together. I'll have to research Brown more and hopfully get a look at him... from what I've read, he's more of an athlete at this point.  He has great speed and can make plays sideline to sideline, but is lacking in the instinct/awareness department. A FA CB would make sense and call me crazy, but I'd love to see Cortland Finnegan in Foxboro... I think this defense could use some edge/swagger and toughness.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I agree MB. You can't overlook the chemistry that Brady and Welker have. Welker is the best WR this team could pick up this off-season.

    I'm with you on Price. I really want to see what he can do first. He might be the solution to the outside the numbers threat we need. Face it or luck in draft WR's hasn't been the best lately so I'd rather not take that route again if it's critical we need a WR. Past that I'd like a bigger WR with some speed. Doesn't have to be a burner but be able to get some separation. Someone who will out leap a DB and go after the ball type of player. I'd be alright going draft on this type of guy since most of the larger WR's in FA are #1 high price guys.

    But, with Gronk, Hern, Branch (putting up good #2 numbers this year), and assuming Welker is back (I believe he will) all we are looking for is a #3 outside the numbers WR or a larger possession WR.

    Then add in the RB core and you have something going. I wouldn't even be surprised if Vereen is used in the slot or as a possible outside he numbers receiver more then RB.

    O to me is second priority this off-season. If a deal or draft pick falls into ours laps great otherwise all focus should be on D imo
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : rame, Yes I prefer to keep the known commodity in Welker and continue to build from there. I think Floyd is a great fit in that he has the good size/speed combo, has excellent RAC ability (which fits their scheme) and really gets after it as a blocker.  He's not a burner (i.e. Mike Wallace), but I'm also not one of those people that think they absolutely have to have a burner on the outside... they won 3 titles without a burner.  I just feel that they need players that fit well into there scheme.  Now if Price develops into that deep threat, awesome!  I'm hoping he does get some extended time on the field (as hinted by O'b). 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Price is a lot faster than I thought he'd be at 200 lbs and I really hope he shows us something over the 2nd half of the season to make an outside WR less of an issue

    Manningham is crazy fast for being 6' as well but he is 15 lbs lighter than Price.
     

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