***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Cone times coming in. Hill 6.88, not bad at all. Better then Kendall Wright and Randle Looking like Hill's outperforming Randle in the combine On a side note, K Wright is really hurting his stock at this combine
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    "collectively" its hard to argue he's not outperforming almost every WR
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : "collectively" its hard to argue he's not outperforming almost every WR
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    The things I was most concerned about from him was his ability to run routes given his size. His shuttles and cones seem to suggest he can run sharp routes and watching his gauntlet and receiving drills he can run a larger number of routes that his college didn't present.

    My only question would be on his intelligence. However, his interview with the media should a kid that commanded the room and had a lot of poise.

    I'll be doing a lot more homework on him

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : The things I was most concerned about from him was his ability to run routes given his size. His shuttles and cones seem to suggest he can run sharp routes and watching his gauntlet and receiving drills he can run a larger number of routes that his college didn't present. My only question would be on his intelligence. However, his interview with the media should a kid that commanded the room and had a lot of poise. I'll be doing a lot more homework on him
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I didn't see it? It was good?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Some weigh-in notables from the defensive side of the ball (from WalterFootball.com):


    Michael Brockers- is a 6-5 322 monster with 35 inch arms.

    Fletcher Cox- Measured in at a solid 6-4 298, with 34.5 inch arms.

    Shea McClellin- Up from 248 to 260 at 6-3, kid is one of my favorite 34 OLB candidates in this class.

    Kendall Reyes-  Solid size 6-4 299 with 33 1/4 inch arms.

    Derek Wolfe- Up from 286 to 295 (as PE had mentioned), has good 34 height/weight at 6-4 295.

    Billy Win- 6-4 294, but his arms were only 32.5 inches.

    Nick Perry- Weighed in at 271, up (21) pounds from his listed weight of 250, he's also 6-3.

    Jared Crick- 6-4 279, unless they're looking to go more 43, I don't see him as an option, unles they're looking to add some sub-package talent on day 2.

    Dont'a Hightower- Measured in (2) inches shorter than expected at 6-2 265.

    Zach Brown- Up to 244 pounds at 6-1.

    Ronnell Lewis- 6-2 253 is about (9) pounds heavier than expected, maybe an option as a 34 OLB?  Kid can bring it.

    Mark Barron- 6-1 213

    Robert Blanton- 6-1 208, was a CB at ND, but could project to S as well.

    Ron Brooks- My late round ultra-sleeper, 5-10 190, which is about (10) pounds heavier than expected.

    Stephon Gilmore- 6-0 190, which is about (1) inch and (5) pounds lighter than expected.

    George Iloka- 6-4 225, 34.5 inch arms, kid has elite size/length.

    Janoris Jenkins- 5-10 193, heaver than expected, which should be good for him, assuming he runs well.

    Harrison Smith- 6-2 213, excellent size for a S.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    I know I mentioned Danny Coale some time back simply because I remembered him from when BC played VT and him. ...Well that and because he was white and those rare guys at WR always standout as somwewhat unique.

    He's done better than I even expected at the combine.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    My ever fluctating list of players I am watching.

    DL\LB
    Fletcher Cox
    Kendal Reyes
    Derek Wolfe
    Donta Hightower
    Cam Johnson
    Vinny Curry
    Shea McClellin
    Ronnell Lewis
    Malik Jackson
    Tank Carder



    CB/S
    Stephen Gilmore
    Chase Minifield
    Trumaine Johnson
    Brandon Boykin
    Casey Hayward
    Jammel Flemming
    Leonard Johnson
    Dwight Bentley
    Josh Norman
    Mark Barron
    George IIoka
    Harrison Smith



    WR
    Mohamed Sanu
    Rueben Randle
    Marvin Jones
    Marvin McNutt
    Chris Givens
    Joe Adams
    Juron Criner
    Danny Coale
    Stephen Hill
    Brian Quick
    Devon Wylie
    Greg Childs
    Jarius Wright




    RB (maybe someone late?)
    Isaiah Pead
    Ronnie Hillman




    OT/OG/C
    Cordy Glenn
    Kevin Zietler
    Brandon Washington
    Nate Potter
    Bobbie Massie
    Phillip Blake
    Ben Jones
    Mitchell Schwartz
    Amini Silatolu
    Quinton Saulsberry
    James Brown
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Iowa's McNutt looked very good catching the ball today, and as a former QB you would think that he is a pretty smart player.  I would love to see him still on the board at pick 63 if we miss on Randle.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Michigan WR Junior Hemingway looked pretty good today as well.  He led all WRs in the 3-cone (6.59), 20 yd shuttle (3.98), & had the 2nd best 60 yd shuttle (11.16).  Tremendous quickness for a guy who is 6'1" 225 lbs.  40 time wasn't too shabby either for a bigger WR at 4.53.  Haven't really seen much film on him, but now I'll have to check it out.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Wow, Doug Martin weighs in at 223 pounds... impressive.  IF NE goes RB early (which I don't think will happen), this has to be the kid.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    i agree 100%, ray rice clone
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    While FLA RB Chris Rainey's 40 time of 4.45 was a little disappointing, it was still among the fastest of all the RBs.  In addition, his 3-cone (6.50), 20 yd shuttle (3.93) & 60 yd shuttle (11.06) were all easily the fastest of all RBs.  This guy has the quickness and the speed to be a valuable weapon as a change-of-pace back and a kick returner.  I hope his "slow" 40 time causes him to slide to a point where NE can pick him up late.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Wow Hill was fastest WR at the combine. At this point I don't care if they trade back to the early 2nd our trade back up I want Curry, Hill, and Wolfe. Toss in Iloka and I think those would be huge upgrades
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    that might not be bad at all.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I like Hill and M. Jones but I'm with you on the double down WRs.  Pats needs, they can trade both 1st rnd picks into second and get  Hill WR Curry OLB Reyes DE Iloka FS M. Jones or Randle WR P. Blake OC/OG
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    like includign the o line improvement
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Rainey with the best cone, 20, and 60 shuttle time. This kid is going to be a game changing retun man in the nfl
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    This on Jenkins. Time to remove him from my board

     

    "

    One AFC executive told Yahoo Sports that he expects at least a handful of teams to remove North Alabama CB Janoris Jenkins from their draft boards due to off-field issues.

    Jenkins has been arrested three times, was suspended at North Alabama even after being kicked out of the University of Florida, has four children under the age of four, and had an admitted ongoing drug problem as recently as a year ago. "I know we haven’t decided what to do with him," said the AFC exec. "We might take him off our board. I know there will be three or four teams that will take him off right away, at least for the first round." Said one NFC executive, "I know this movie. It usually doesn’t end well." Added an AFC defensive coordinator, "It's a lot, that's all I can say."
    "
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]The times that are posted on NFL.com are different; most are significantly slower.  They have Hill at 4.36; Floyd at 4.47; etc.  Must be the official times.  Still a lot to like in this group!
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer[/QUOTE]

    One comment today that caught my attention is the fact the the official time is manually started while the finish is electronic.  This to me is almost as unreliable as the unofficial times where someone is manually starting and stopping the watch.  Humans take anywhere from .1 to .5 seconds to react, remember the driver's ed classes (those of you who are old enough) where they made you watch a video of drivers hitting the brake when the red light came on sober, then drunk to show how their reaction time declined.  If you're going 60 MPH, your moving 88 feet per second.  Sober people were hitting the brakes in about .20 reaction time, which is phenomenal, while drunks were taking twice as long or more.  This equates to traveling 17.6 feet distance difference drunk to sober before you even begin to stop the car.  17.6 feet could be difference between life and death.  That was the point they were trying to make.  Point being, when you're measuring athletes to the 1/100th of a second, a .1 or .2 error is HUGE. 

    So, the official time is only potentially twice as accurate as the unofficial times but that assumes the guy starting the watch is as good as the unofficial guy in hitting the button at the precise time the runner starts.  This explains how Joe Hadden was able to improve his combine 40 by .15 at his Pro Day.  When the unofficial timer had Hill at 4.30 and 4.31, that is pretty darn consistent. 

    With all the technology available today, digital video could be used more precisely to measure these times, or the use of a laser line in front of the athlete.  Anything would be better than someone manually starting the clock.  This would also eliminate all the mis-starts due to rolling starts or not holding their arm long enough, etc.  I'm shocked that nobody has approached the NFL about this.  I would prefer to trust my eyes.  Hill was moving.  In just about every case, the official times were slower than the unofficial times.  I find that telling because it seems to always be that way, year over year.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Hey Faucet.  Good post on the difference between "official" and "un-official" times.  Since human error is a factor in both cases, neither is perfect.  I've heard that many scouts prefer to go by un-official times for the reasons you mentioned; they are typically more consistent.  You're right, though.  There is no reason for the NFL to be screwing around with hand-timed 40s in this day and age.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : One comment today that caught my attention is the fact the the official time is manually started while the finish is electronic.  This to me is almost as unreliable as the unofficial times where someone is manually starting and stopping the watch.  Humans take anywhere from .1 to .5 seconds to react, remember the driver's ed classes (those of you who are old enough) where they made you watch a video of drivers hitting the brake when the red light came on sober, then drunk to show how their reaction time declined.  If you're going 60 MPH, your moving 88 feet per second.  Sober people were hitting the brakes in about .20 reaction time, which is phenomenal, while drunks were taking twice as long or more.  This equates to traveling 17.6 feet distance difference drunk to sober before you even begin to stop the car.  17.6 feet could be difference between life and death.  That was the point they were trying to make.  Point being, when you're measuring athletes to the 1/100th of a second, a .1 or .2 error is HUGE.  So, the official time is only potentially twice as accurate as the unofficial times but that assumes the guy starting the watch is as good as the unofficial guy in hitting the button at the precise time the runner starts.  This explains how Joe Hadden was able to improve his combine 40 by .15 at his Pro Day.  When the unofficial timer had Hill at 4.30 and 4.31, that is pretty darn consistent.  With all the technology available today, digital video could be used more precisely to measure these times, or the use of a laser line in front of the athlete.  Anything would be better than someone manually starting the clock.  This would also eliminate all the mis-starts due to rolling starts or not holding their arm long enough, etc.  I'm shocked that nobody has approached the NFL about this.  I would prefer to trust my eyes.  Hill was moving.  In just about every case, the official times were slower than the unofficial times.  I find that telling because it seems to always be that way, year over year.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    That's because in timing something moving you generally anticipate knowing you can't react in the exact moment of a finish so you anticipate it and are usually early.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    One last note on the 40 times...Remember that Lucas Oil Stadium is generally considered a "slow track" for the player's 40 times.  Some of the guys like Joe Adams and Kendall Wright who ran significantly slower than expected will almost certainly improve their times at their pro-days on faster surfaces.  Stay tuned.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Some weigh-in notables from the defensive side of the ball (from WalterFootball.com): Michael Brockers - is a 6-5 322 monster with 35 inch arms. Fletcher Cox - Measured in at a solid 6-4 298, with 34.5 inch arms. Shea McClellin - Up from 248 to 260 at 6-3, kid is one of my favorite 34 OLB candidates in this class. Kendall Reyes -  Solid size 6-4 299 with 33 1/4 inch arms. Derek Wolfe - Up from 286 to 295 (as PE had mentioned), has good 34 height/weight at 6-4 295. Billy Win - 6-4 294, but his arms were only 32.5 inches. Nick Perry - Weighed in at 271, up (21) pounds from his listed weight of 250, he's also 6-3. Jared Crick - 6-4 279, unless they're looking to go more 43, I don't see him as an option, unles they're looking to add some sub-package talent on day 2. Dont'a Hightower - Measured in (2) inches shorter than expected at 6-2 265. Zach Brown - Up to 244 pounds at 6-1. Ronnell Lewis - 6-2 253 is about (9) pounds heavier than expected, maybe an option as a 34 OLB?  Kid can bring it. Mark Barron - 6-1 213 Robert Blanton - 6-1 208, was a CB at ND, but could project to S as well. Ron Brooks - My late round ultra-sleeper , 5-10 190, which is about (10) pounds heavier than expected. Stephon Gilmore - 6-0 190, which is about (1) inch and (5) pounds lighter than expected. George Iloka - 6-4 225, 34.5 inch arms, kid has elite size/length. Janoris Jenkins - 5-10 193, heaver than expected, which should be good for him, assuming he runs well. Harrison Smith - 6-2 213, excellent size for a S.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Wow, Brockers is a beast.  He'll go top 10.  What did Ta'amu and Poe check in at?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]One last note on the 40 times...Remember that Lucas Oil Stadium is generally considered a "slow track" for the player's 40 times.  Some of the guys like Joe Adams and Kendall Wright who ran significantly slower than expected will almost certainly improve their times at their pro-days on faster surfaces.  Stay tuned.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer[/QUOTE]
    Yeah.  I won't put too much stock in those "official" times.  Everybody works a stop watch a little differently.  That is why so many teams are sitting up in the stands with their own stop watches, presumably because they trust themselves for then the Combine.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Just finished Day 2.  We all have a lot of the same observations.  Hill was fast, slowed excellent hands, loved the diving catch on the deep route.  I know the kid is a hard evaluation but he POTENTIALLY could kill two birds, giving us that deep threat and the big body.  Imagine if he was the real deal and we put him on the field with Gronk, Hern, and Welker?  OMG, we'll be accused of cheating _ AGAIN!!

    I forgot which of you were talking up Devon Wylie, too many posts plus my memory sucks.  Anyway, I was impressed big time with this kid today.  He could be the next Welker but with speed to go along with the quicks.  They have the same 5-9, 185 frame.  What is the deal with this kid, not much production?  From Fresno State, so he's got that connection with Mankins.  I bet this kid has BB's attention.  He could be a solid late round addition.  I hate to say this and sound cold, but anytime a player is over 30 and is over that $5MM cap number, it seems BB starts looking for their replacement.

    Mike, your boy Floyd obviously tore it up and could be the 2nd WR taken, perhaps to SD.  So, he'll likely be long gone but it seems when the draft is deep at a certain position, BB likes to wait to get value later on.  But with our need at WR so big and the number of high picks we have, I could see us taking a Randle or Hill in that mid 2nd range then come back for a Wylie later on.  We could tag Welker for a year to see how Wylie performs.  If he looks good, we do a tag and trade the following year.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    I just fell in love with Robert Turbin after watching that tape.  I thought guys were going to catch him from behind--but I didn't see that either...Also, one day ago I never heard of Hill.  Now, he's all the talk.  Isn't this a fun time of year?  Even if BB isn't interested, someone in front of us might be, and that would kick another player down.  What some of you are making clear is we might be able to fill our needs more than adequately in the 2nd round.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]bred/brd, I think we are pretty much on the same page with everything, our need for a couple of quality WRs to go with Welker, and a stronger, more complete running game. The only major difference I think we have is I don't think we should spend a draft pick on TE this year.  If we have other weapons besides Gronk, Welker and Hern, one of them going down isn't as big a deal.  This is a pathetic class of TEs this year.  There is no Gronk-lite out there who could have come in and "replaced him."  Gronk at 50% was still a better option than 90% of those guys I saw at the Combine yesterday. I think the best way to go is pick up an inexpensive veteran to be that 3rd TE.  I would get someone who is an accomplished blocker like we had with Crumpler but not someone you expect to get much from in the passing game. As for the running game, I expect big things from Vereen.  He could be our next Kevin Faulk.  He's fast, has good hands and can do damage in the open field.  I look for him and Ridley to be our 1-2 punch.  There are some backs that interest me in this draft in every round but I think other needs are more important to address first unless we see a really good talent at a value spot we weren't expecting. For all those watching Stephen Hill, I just saw his two 40s and heard the comments and comparisons to Demarius Thomas and that Josh McDaniels who drafted him for the Broncos, now with the Patriots, might be thinking the same thing.  I'm not ready to say first round yet Mike, so no double or nothing bet.  But I think all of us are going to be doing our homework on Hill now.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    good post faucet,
    agreed.
    re te,
    if we got a fa blocking te who is a moderate threat in the pass game (but not just a blocking te) if one of the other 2 go down, i'd be cool with that.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Just finished Day 2.  We all have a lot of the same observations.  Hill was fast, slowed excellent hands, loved the diving catch on the deep route.  I know the kid is a hard evaluation but he POTENTIALLY could kill two birds, giving us that deep threat and the big body.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I agree: Hill looks great on tapes! 6'4", 4.36s (tied for fastest as WR) and 39 vertical! Whaoo!!!
    Looks like what the doctor ordered! Unfortunately as we all know, BB will never draft a WR on day one. Cry
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I agree: Hill looks great on tapes! 6'4", 4.36s (tied for fastest as WR) as and 39 vertical! Whaoo!!! Looks like what the doctor ordered! Unfortunately as we all know, BB will never draft a WR on day one.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    It's a good thing he's considered an early day 2 guy, and that we just hired a OC that loved his teammate (Thomas) 2 years ago and Hill is considered the better of the two prospects 

    I'm hoping the stars align and BB grabs him. But, as always there is a proviso. If and only if Hill can interview well and has enough intelligence to understand routes.

    Boy would I like to be a fly on the wall. But, I'd ask Brady to come in for a week when you are bringing players in for private workouts and have him work with the WR's. Let him chose since, if he picks a WR then he can't complain if they don't get it right away
     
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