***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : That would sure make it better quick but I don't think we need a ILB. I like Spikes as a 1st and 2nd down back and am alright moving Mayo inside for the 3rd down or finding a coverage ILB in later rounds. You could also do a S Carolina/Alabama draft and include Taylor and Ingram. Take Baron out (have Chung don't know if we need Baron), push Chapman and Lester up a spot put Taylor/Ingram in the late 2nd, push Menzie to the 4th and take Ingram/Taylor with the 3rd. Now that would be a heck of a draft too
    Posted by PatsEng

    i like the usc - bama combo more.
    and mb,
    dont we have the box safety in chung.
    but lack the ball hawking safety we could pick up in lester.
    remember when baron got juked out of his shorts when ingram shake and baked him with the rock on a turnover. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I'm not as optimistic on the ILB corps as neither Mayo or Spikes have proven the ability to stay healthy, same goes for assumed up and comer Dane Fletcher.  Now, I like their current talent at the position, but the injuries do leave a question mark. I do like the idea of an SEC combo draft as yes SC does have their own collection of defensive talent, I had posted about them the other day.  Barron is a pretty versatile kid (Lester is as well) that I think could provide value as both a pass and run defender, covering the deep half/third/slot while also providing value as a box safety and you know BB generally likes those interchangable type kids.  I could see them loading in what I feel could be a pretty deep safety class at this point, though I'd prefer to see them draft a kid and also sign a veteran FA. Ingram is a real intriguing kid, he's squatty, but has long arms to go along with an excellent burst and athleticism while Taylor has the ideal height/length that BB covets.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    re"'m not as optimistic on the ILB corps as neither Mayo or Spikes have proven the ability to stay healthy, same goes for assumed up and comer Dane Fletcher.  Now, I like their current talent at the position, "

    i am not high on their abiltiy, but ok with. i think the higher need is olb.

    if you can pick up ilb did you laready pick up in fa or the draft #1 receiver, dl, olb, freew safety, and have a center in mind? and got room left in fa or draft, then ok.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I'm with MB on the LB situation. We need to turn this position back into an area of strength, and bring in some talent to compliment or spell Mayo/Spikes and company. I think there is a possibility that Upshaw could slip to our first pick in round 1. I woudl put a higher probability that Hightower does. If Upshaw doesn't, how much do you like Hightower playing inside or out at LB? Does he make Spikes expendable or vice versa? Same with Upshaw. Do you play Spikes and Upshaw inside and Mayo outside with Fletcher/Guyton/Nink/Cunningham combo? Just trying to figure out how you deploy a kid like Upshaw and Hightower with who we currently have, and Spikes/Cunningham I see as the biggest overlaps when compared to Upshaw and Hightower. ALso, I mentioned on a previous post possibly looking at Worthy with our other 1st rounder, or possibly with a 2nd based on where he falls. Is drafting a DT a high priority or do we have a log jam currently in that area? Wilfork, Love, Brace, Pryor, etc. I think a kid like Worthy is an upgrade over Love, Brace and Pryor, but do we use a pick this high for an upgrade when we have bigger needs at Safety, LB, etc.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    re: " I think a kid like Worthy is an upgrade over Love, Brace and Pryor, but do we use a pick this high for an upgrade when we have bigger needs at Safety, LB, etc."

    been throwing this around in my head re the worthy kid who i posted as a possible patritot earlier in the thread this year and just like you, what is the priority?.

    so it would come down for me what i wanted to do in fa (and or could do) and then what was left on my list could be targeted in the draft.

    in order of importanc(my preference, not what bb will do-no one knows that, leastwise me):

     olb, dl, wr ie upshaw - worthy if via draft; wr any # of guys i like the bigguns who can run and catch outside the numbers.

    free safety mcdonald / lester ; center - midround developmental 

     ilb: in this position of need, hard to see us spending a 1st rounder i would think

    te and cb most likely fa
      

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think Upshaw could be used all over the field, but you'd be drafting him for his edge rush ability as well as said versatility so I think he'd spend a bulk of his snaps as a 34 OLB or with his hand in the dirt as a 43 DE. As for the DL, quality DL will always hold a ton of value with BB, the hard part is finding kids with the high/length he seems to prefer with his 34 DE's... further complicating things is the unknown around what base scheme they'll run moving forward though scheme diverse kids also provide a tone of value.  Worthy (6-3 305), like may others we've discussed (and mocked) to NE doesn't have said height/length but could be a solid fit if they move forward with more 43. Devon Still and Alameda Ta'amu look like the only kids they'd potentially target as 34 DL talent in Rd 1, IMO.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    mb,

     think Upshaw could be used all over the field, but you'd be drafting him for his edge rush ability as well as said versatility so I think he'd spend a bulk of his snaps as a 34 OLB or with his hand in the dirt as a 43 DE.

    been my thinking too

    As for the DL, quality DL will always hold a ton of value with BB, the hard part is finding kids with the high/length he seems to prefer with his 34 DE's... further complicating things is the unknown around what base scheme they'll run moving forward though scheme diverse kids also provide a tone of value.  Worthy (6-3 305), like may others we've discussed (and mocked) to NE doesn't have said height/length but could be a solid fit if they move forward with more 43.

    i like our 43 better than our 34. the league is more pass. we get more rush with our 43

    Devon Still and Alameda Ta'amu look like the only kids they'd potentially target as 34 DL talent in Rd 1, IMO.


    i dont see either of these guys good enough to improve us dramatically at this point. nor do i want to move back to a 34 base
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : i like the usc - bama combo more. and mb, dont we have the box safety in chung. but lack the ball hawking safety we could pick up in lester. remember when baron got juked out of his shorts when ingram shake and baked him with the rock on a turnover. 
    Posted by bredbru


    I just don't see Barron as a box safety only... don't put a whole lot of stock in one play during the season.

    'Bama, like most elite teams, runs a good variation of coverages and responsibilities with a mix of Cover 1 "Robber" (which starts out with a Cover 2 look) in which you have one high safety the covers the deep middle and one safety that works his way up towards the box and has run/coverage responsibilities (watches the QB's eyes/makes a play on the football), Barron and Lester alternate between the high safety/"Robber" responsibilities.  They also run a good amount of Cover 2 zone with both responsible for the deep half.  

    I say this because it's reflective of Barron's versatility and experience operating withing multiple coverage responsibilities (zone, TE, slot etc.). 

    Put the tape on of this kid, he's all over the field and looks solid in both short/intermediate and deep coverage, reading plays correctly and frequently putting himself in position to make plays, I also like his ball skills.

    With that being said, I'm a fan of both 'Bama safeties.

    He actually might show up as a Rd 1 pick for NE in my 2012 Mock V1, along with everyones favorite choice of... another CB (Chase Minnifield or Stephon Gilmore).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I just don't see Barron as a box safety only... don't put a whole lot of stock in one play during the season. 'Bama, like most elite teams, runs a good variation of coverages and responsibilities with a mix of Cover 1 "Robber" (which starts out with a Cover 2 look) in which you have one high safety the covers the deep middle and one safety that works his way up towards the box and has run/coverage responsibilities (watches the QB's eyes/makes a play on the football), Barron and Lester alternate between the high safety/"Robber" responsibilities.  They also run a good amount of Cover 2 zone with both responsible for the deep half.   I say this because it's reflective of Barron's versatility and experience operating withing multiple coverage responsibilities (zone, TE, slot etc.).  Put the tape on of this kid, he's all over the field and looks solid in both short/intermediate and deep coverage, reading plays correctly and frequently putting himself in position to make plays, I also like his ball skills. With that being said, I'm a fan of both 'Bama safeties. He actually might show up as a Rd 1 pick for NE in my 2012 Mock V1, along with everyones favorite choice of... another CB (Chase Minnifield or Stephon Gilmore).
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



     just don't see Barron as a box safety only... don't put a whole lot of stock in one play during the season.

    no i of course wouldnt decide on a guy form one play. it was more funny to see ingram do that.

    'Bama, like most elite teams, runs a good variation of coverages and responsibilities with a mix of Cover 1 "Robber" (which starts out with a Cover 2 look) in which you have one high safety the covers the deep middle and one safety that works his way up towards the box and has run/coverage responsibilities (watches the QB's eyes/makes a play on the football), Barron and Lester alternate between the high safety/"Robber" responsibilities.  They also run a good amount of Cover 2 zone with both responsible for the deep half.  

    I say this because it's reflective of Barron's versatility and experience operating withing multiple coverage responsibilities (zone, TE, slot etc.).  

    Put the tape on of this kid, he's all over the field and looks solid in both short/intermediate and deep coverage, reading plays correctly and frequently putting himself in position to make plays, I also like his ball skills.

    With that being said, I'm a fan of both 'Bama safeties.

    He actually might show up as a Rd 1 pick for NE in my 2012 Mock V1, along with everyones favorite choice of... another CB (Chase Minnifield or Stephon Gilmore).


    so you like barron over lester for us?

    i like lester better as i'm wanting a ball hawk fs.
    i actaully think we would have more of a shot at barron cause i tthink he goes much later than lester in the draft

    i have seen him some, but have not evaluated film on him.

    thanks for the post.

    what did you think of my thoughts on priorities and in getting what we can more easily get in free a then getting the rest in the draft.?

    ie wr, fs maybe easier in fa.

    roth?

    we could use a lot of the money we put into players like ellis and ocho this year for the upgrades we need.

    side note:
    ellis seemed like an overpayment at the time and seems clear now it was.
    chad seems like hes playing high school football, and not well.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** :  just don't see Barron as a box safety only... don't put a whole lot of stock in one play during the season. no i of course wouldnt decide on a guy form one play. it was more funny to see ingram do that. 'Bama, like most elite teams, runs a good variation of coverages and responsibilities with a mix of Cover 1 "Robber" (which starts out with a Cover 2 look) in which you have one high safety the covers the deep middle and one safety that works his way up towards the box and has run/coverage responsibilities (watches the QB's eyes/makes a play on the football), Barron and Lester alternate between the high safety/"Robber" responsibilities.  They also run a good amount of Cover 2 zone with both responsible for the deep half.   I say this because it's reflective of Barron's versatility and experience operating withing multiple coverage responsibilities (zone, TE, slot etc.).   Put the tape on of this kid, he's all over the field and looks solid in both short/intermediate and deep coverage, reading plays correctly and frequently putting himself in position to make plays, I also like his ball skills. With that being said, I'm a fan of both 'Bama safeties. He actually might show up as a Rd 1 pick for NE in my 2012 Mock V1, along with everyones favorite choice of... another CB (Chase Minnifield or Stephon Gilmore). so you like barron over lester for us? i like lester better as i'm wanting a ball hawk fs. i actaully think we would have more of a shot at barron cause i tthink he goes much later than lester in the draft i have seen him some, but have not evaluated film on him. thanks for the post. what did you think of my thoughts on priorities and in getting what we can more easily get in free a then getting the rest in the draft.? ie wr, fs maybe easier in fa. roth? we could use a lot of the money we put into players like ellis and ocho this year for the upgrades we need. side note: ellis seemed like an overpayment at the time and seems clear now it was. chad seems like hes playing high school football, and not well.
    Posted by bredbru


    I think come draft day (assuming Lester declares), both playes will be rated similarly, as top 64 picks though right now Barron is carrying a late 1, early 2 grade from most publications that I've seen while Lester (only junior) should be pretty close once the scouting publications catch up to him.

    I too would like a ball hawking safety, but I also think both have solid ball skills and play making ability as Barron has 12 career INT's in four years while Lester has 10 in three.

    Another kid that I'm high on that can likely be had on day 2 is Harrison Smith (6-2 215) from ND.  He's another good size kid that plays aggressive, is a powerful, yet secure tackler, is quick to diagnose and close and is always around the football.

    As for FA's, I think, they should target WR via FA if they're looking for a quicker ROI and would like to see a veteran S as well, but think they need to bring in atleast two S's this off season.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : I think come draft day (assuming Lester declares), both playes will be rated similarly, as top 64 picks though right now Barron is carrying a late 1, early 2 grade from most publications that I've seen while Lester (only junior) should be pretty close once the scouting publications catch up to him. I too would like a ball hawking safety, but I also think both have solid ball skills and play making ability as Barron has 12 career INT's in four years while Lester has 10 in three. Another kid that I'm high on that can likely be had on day 2 is Harrison Smith (6-2 215) from ND.  He's another good size kid that plays aggressive, is a powerful, yet secure tackler, is quick to diagnose and close and is always around the football. As for FA's, I think, they should target WR via FA if they're looking for a quicker ROI and would like to see a veteran S as well, but think they need to bring in atleast two S's this off season.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    thanks for the clarificationmb.
    thanks for the tip onsmith. iknowyou watch n.d.. i willhave to get around to looking at him.
    thanks for the thought re 2 free safeties(why by the way)? personally, id be much more interested in filling the other positions and getting 1 free safety.
    and at that point i might go another cb before another safety with the option.



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I want to sign Charles Godfrey or Dashon Goldson! So then draft a safety as well? I'd love us to pick Page up now (released by Eagles) and have him in the mix with Moore, Barrett, Brown and Ideghibo (however u spell it). Between Chung a VERY good FA starter, and 3 of those 5 guys we'd be stacked.
    Posted by rameakap

    well see if bb makes a play for him. well know what bb thinks of him then.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I'd rather see a 10 sack monster of a DE/OLB, a DE/DT who is always behind the LOS, a 6'4" chuck it up for him WR (who also runs crisp routes and uses the sideline well), and a starting Center for the next decade who has a Mankins mean streak in him. That'd gets us through round 2:-) The guys we expect to be studs Then either a speedy cover ILB or CB (that can return kicks better than awful KR's we have now) in rd 3 and decent backup/rotation guy 'best available' to get lucky with in rd 4 (or an injury guy like Broyles) before we run out of picks. (I won't even give thought to the fairyland dream that BB would trade future picks to get better players NOW).
    Posted by rameakap


    rame,
      i am totally with you all the way thru the last sentence. altho id say it, even  if he wouldnt do it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    ok guys.
    colts confirmed for #1 pick
    chances they dont use the pick?
    don't need the colts having 2 full 12' draft picks and maybe even a 2nd 2013

    rather have them take anyone including luck than make out like this.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    Thoughts on targeting Cortland Finnegan (assuming he's not franchised) in free agency?  He's a PITA for opposing teams and I think his tough, ultra-competitive attitude would be an asset to this defense.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I love Finnegan....it would be nice to have someone play CB with an "edge" rather than smurfs playing like they don't want to get hurt. Very tough ballplayer.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Hey port, good to see you back on the draft thread. I just have some commentary on those points: 1) Agree. OL was a place of weakness and so was pass rush. i think we all expected them to grab an OL and a pass rush with 2 of those top 33 picks. OL was the choice and it looked like a good choice with Solder 2) We traded back a #1 to get Vereen, NO's #1 next year and gave us room to trade back our pick to Hou for Ridley and Cannon. Now They might have traded their pick back anyways so, that second part might be moot. Lets look at only the trade for a second. So far no one knows what Vereen is but since he's been an active no show for a number of games that's very concerning. As of right now it looks like we trade our #1 in 11' for a #1 in 12' in about the same position. Until Vereen can actually get on the field let alone be productive I don't count him as depth at all. As of right now that was a terrible trade but it's all dependent on Vereen 3) Ras is on IR and this was the knock on him coming out of college was that he was injury prone. A number of posters including myself pointed out time and time again that he was injury prone and it would be a gamble to take him early. If this was a late 2nd or early 3rd pick then you can say you took a chance on a 1st round talent guy with some injury issues but with the 33rd pick? It's basically a 1st round right there. If Ras can't stay healthy I don't see him long for the NFL and would yet again be another wasted high round pick. 4) I agree but Vereen being healthy inactive and cannot seem to get on the field really at all is very concerning. I don't know what to make of it. Ridley started out with a bang but has since sputtered to a halt. It might be due to lack of touches or lack of confidence but as of right now both RB selections aren't looking great. The one thing about RB selections is normally they can start week 1 as a rook and be productive. It's unusual they take a long time to adapt to a system so with Ridley and Vereen not getting a lot of touches it's disconcerting to say the least 5) Mallett was a gamble and still is. Can he keep his head straight and be happy on the bench until Brady retires? If so he can be a bigger steal then Rodgers if not then he's another O'Connell. There's a reason he went from a top 15 talent to the 3rd round. We'll have to wait and see I use to think that the 09', 10', 11' drafts were amazing given the shear amount of high round picks but when you break it down it paints a scary picture on how many picks were thrown away. I don't just mean in terms of players no longer on the team but also players who were expected to be average starters at worst and ended up being rotational backups. It seems that trading back and acquiring a ton of picks will get you decent depth and at least 1 solid starter every year but you don't get the impact players. I've seen that it's almost impossible to find an impact player in the 2nd and 3rd round yet the closer you are to #1 the more likely you have to find one. I know this doesn't come as much of a shock but when you realize that the depth and getting a ton of picks haven't worked at all for this team over the last 3 years and what's missing, on D at least, is a player who other teams need to account for then it's maddening not to move up and take a chance on getting an impact player. (BTW look at the depth on D right now. Brown, Barrett, Adams, Molden, White I mean really, that's the best depth they could get in an area of weakness to begin with?) The way I look at it is that the Pats in the first 3 rounds get a solid starter with 25% of their picks or at least a backup role player on 40% of those picks. So, what are the odds that if you moved up to a top 20 pick that you'd find at minimum a solid starter or better? I'd put it closer to 50%. So, you slightly decrease the odds of getting a solid player every year but, you are drastically increasing your odds of getting an impact player if every so often you move up to get one. I don't mean take the Jets approach but when you have the extra ammo and have a critical need that requires an impact player spend a couple of chips to go after the jackpot. As a wise man once said, "you can't win if you never play" and another said "if you go for broke and lose then what do you have to show but that you are a fool" but there has to be a happy median. I have to believe when an area of need has a lot of depth in the draft that you move chips to take a risk on show of that talent and when the draft is weak or your needs are minimized is when you hold back for more. It seems the philosophy regardless of strength of certain positions or need on the team is to trade back and get value instead of move forward for talent. It's just like gameday. If you only run 1 game plan constantly you will lose, you need to adjust and plan around your weaknesses and the strengths of what's in front of you.
    Posted by PatsEng


    Except that his proven experience finding even a "depth player" in rounds 2 and 3 over the last ten years is actually running about 1 in 3. This is the primary
    reason they're facing issues on the defensive side of the ball; he's continuously traded out of the 1st round for additional 2's and 3's and then whiffed on those extra picks.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : Except that his proven experience finding even a "depth player" in rounds 2 and 3 over the last ten years is actually running about 1 in 3. This is the primary reason they're facing issues on the defensive side of the ball; he's continuously traded out of the 1st round for additional 2's and 3's and then whiffed on those extra picks.
    Posted by sml1210


    If you noticed I said that he averages a starter on about 25% of the picks and a backup on 40% of the picks. So that is close to your 1 in 3 ratio so you are kind of agreeing with my rather long length post
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I want to sign Charles Godfrey or Dashon Goldson! So then draft a safety as well? I'd love us to pick Page up now (released by Eagles) and have him in the mix with Moore, Barrett, Brown and Ideghibo (however u spell it). Between Chung a VERY good FA starter, and 3 of those 5 guys we'd be stacked.
    Posted by rameakap


    I do think we need both a vet and to draft a S.

    For the vet we need some leadership back in the secondary. Sanders use to fill that role and it worked well. I think Goldson could fill that role and also be a starter. I don't think Chung can fill that role, however. Chung is a solid starter but I don't think he can be a leader in the DB core.

    The reason for the rook is Barrett, Brown, Inhedigbo, and Page are what they are. IMO they aren't going to improve much more then what they are playing now, which are STer's and JAGs. I'm always under the philosophy that you need 3 good starting caliber S's in today's NFL. Given how many sub packages we run it's always a safe measure. I'd like to get a Young draftee who can develop and work with the vet and Chung to make the S's a position of strength instead of 2 starters and some JAGs
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***


    I don't think we can go wrong with either Barron or Lester. In fact, lets take them both! joking of course. But on a serious note, why not grab them both? Why not play 3 safeties Barron, Lester, Chung in a dime package vs. 1-2 safeties and the rest CB's? Perhaps a crazy idea.

    The only kid I want from ND is Manti...actually there are a few others I would take as well, but with our first 4 picks that is it.

    I woudl agree with BREDBRU on our 4 man line vs. 3 man line. We seem to get more pressure and it seems to help our secondary a ton. In fact, if we are intent on resigning ACarter (as we should) and/or MAnderson, these guys play much better as 4-3 ends than 3-4 LBs. It seems to me if we add a playmaking LB with some speed, plus a FS to compliment Chung, resign ACarter and possibly either draft another 4-3 DE or grab Roth/resign MAnderson, we'll look pretty good on defense.

    I'm not sold we need to grab another CB in the draft. In fact, I am opposed to it for several reasons. First, we don't have a great history in this area. Second, I kind of like Molden, Moore and Arrington. I think Moore could work himself into being a pretty good corner, safety not being his natural position. So, at CB we have McCourty, Ras, Arrington, Moore, Molden. I'm good with that unless BB wants to add a veteran FA to this group. I don't think it has room for any more young, unproven talent. We have enough of that already.

    If BB wanted to grab more 3-4 players, as in DEs...There were plenty for the picking in last draft and some of those guys we are talked about here are having good years. Given finding 3-4 DE talent is harder than 4-3 DE talent, why wouldn't he have spent a high pick last year on Watt or any number of kids? Is it because he wants to play more 4+ man lines? Or, just didn't believe in what he saw as talent fit for the Pats? This question befuddles me. One of the deepest drafts in DT talent, and we select none. 
    Perhaps this was due to the lockout.

    I'll take a shot at an early mock based on needs and who I want the Pats to draft. I won't put a BB spin on it until closer to draft time, as we all know, he won't take who we all want him to. I don't think the Pats draft a WR. I think they go get one in FA. Several to choose from. Also, with the jury out on Ocho and Price, this seems like a position of need, but also might be fulfilled via our current roster, and possibly a small FA tweak that is not going to break the bank.

    1a /> I think they trade this selection to early round 2. I want a LB early, but I think Upshaw, Hightower, Manti, Kuehly, Brown will be off the board or BB won't be interested this high.
     
    1b /> Jerel Worthy (DT/DE Michigan State)..This was my original selection, and I like this kid. Only has 2 years under his belt, but has great upside. Very strong, good penetration, commands doubles, nicely paired next to VW with Pryor, Love, Brace, providing depth.

    2a /> (traded 1st round pick) Mark Barron (S Alabama)

    2b /> Vinny Curry (DE Marshall) I don't know how far his stock will rise, but I think he will make a nice bookend with ACarter. 

    2c /> Travis Lewis (OLB Oklahoma). Good coverage LB, great athleticism, good insticts and aggressive, playmaker and disruptive. I think he provides a nice compliment to Mayo and Spikes, and is a sure fire upgrade over Guyton and Fletcher when we are in the 4-3.
     
    3 /> Coby Fleener (TE Stanford). He might be off the board sooner, but if he's here, he's my pick. In the mold of Gronk, great pass catching TE, runs good routes, adequate blocker off the line, needs to improve inline blocking.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    I don't think we can go wrong with either Barron or Lester. In fact, lets take them both! joking of course. But on a serious note, why not grab them both? Why not play 3 safeties Barron, Lester, Chung in a dime package vs. 1-2 safeties and the rest CB's? Perhaps a crazy idea. The only kid I want from ND is Manti...actually there are a few others I would take as well, but with our first 4 picks that is it. I woudl agree with BREDBRU on our 4 man line vs. 3 man line. We seem to get more pressure and it seems to help our secondary a ton. In fact, if we are intent on resigning ACarter (as we should) and/or MAnderson, these guys play much better as 4-3 ends than 3-4 LBs. It seems to me if we add a playmaking LB with some speed, plus a FS to compliment Chung, resign ACarter and possibly either draft another 4-3 DE or grab Roth/resign MAnderson, we'll look pretty good on defense. I'm not sold we need to grab another CB in the draft. In fact, I am opposed to it for several reasons. First, we don't have a great history in this area. Second, I kind of like Molden, Moore and Arrington. I think Moore could work himself into being a pretty good corner, safety not being his natural position. So, at CB we have McCourty, Ras, Arrington, Moore, Molden. I'm good with that unless BB wants to add a veteran FA to this group. I don't think it has room for any more young, unproven talent. We have enough of that already. If BB wanted to grab more 3-4 players, as in DEs...There were plenty for the picking in last draft and some of those guys we are talked about here are having good years. Given finding 3-4 DE talent is harder than 4-3 DE talent, why wouldn't he have spent a high pick last year on Watt or any number of kids? Is it because he wants to play more 4+ man lines? Or, just didn't believe in what he saw as talent fit for the Pats? This question befuddles me. One of the deepest drafts in DT talent, and we select none.  Perhaps this was due to the lockout. I'll take a shot at an early mock based on needs and who I want the Pats to draft. I won't put a BB spin on it until closer to draft time, as we all know, he won't take who we all want him to. I don't think the Pats draft a WR. I think they go get one in FA. Several to choose from. Also, with the jury out on Ocho and Price, this seems like a position of need, but also might be fulfilled via our current roster, and possibly a small FA tweak that is not going to break the bank. 1a /> I think they trade this selection to early round 2. I want a LB early, but I think Upshaw, Hightower, Manti, Kuehly, Brown will be off the board or BB won't be interested this high.   1b /> Jerel Worthy (DT/DE Michigan State)..This was my original selection, and I like this kid. Only has 2 years under his belt, but has great upside. Very strong, good penetration, commands doubles, nicely paired next to VW with Pryor, Love, Brace, providing depth. 2a /> (traded 1st round pick) Mark Barron (S Alabama) 2b /> Vinny Curry (DE Marshall) I don't know how far his stock will rise, but I think he will make a nice bookend with ACarter.  2c /> Travis Lewis (OLB Oklahoma). Good coverage LB, great athleticism, good insticts and aggressive, playmaker and disruptive. I think he provides a nice compliment to Mayo and Spikes, and is a sure fire upgrade over Guyton and Fletcher when we are in the 4-3.   3 /> Coby Fleener (TE Stanford). He might be off the board sooner, but if he's here, he's my pick. In the mold of Gronk, great pass catching TE, runs good routes, adequate blocker off the line, needs to improve inline blocking.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    PL,
    I'm not at all opposed to grabbing (2) S high, assuming they feel more comfortable going this route vs. signing a veteran FA and drafting (1) S high. As for the nickel/dime packages, I think you're generally better off with more CB's as they are generally more skilled in coverage, though I don't think it's beyond BB to mix things up.

    A couple of points on ND.  I can tell you first hand that A.)  ND may have the best TE in the country in Tyler Eifert, he's not the big name the Fleener is... yet, but if he declares, he may be the 1st TE off the board, kid is a complete player. B.) As mentioned, Harrison Smith is a very good football player and could instantly be better than the scrub safeties (minus Chung) that they're currently rolling out there.  C.) I'll assume you don't want Floyd because you metioned not wanting a WR in Rd 1, but this kid is 1A IMO in regards to WR's in this class.  D.) They currently play a 34 so there may be some available late round/UDFA talent (i.e. CB Robert Blanton/OLB Darius Fleming/DT Ethan Johnson 6-4 300, Kapron Lewis-Moore 6-4 300 etc.) that may interest them, assuming they want to move back to more 34.

    I too would like to see more 43 as there seems to be more available talent out there to fit this scheme.

    Aarington I can understand, but I'm curious of what you've seen from Moulden and Moore that would lead you to believe that they could develop into solid CB's?  Sure it's OK to be optimistic, but Molden is JAG and Moore is a UDFA coming off of his first game so I think we should temper the expecations a bit.  Luckily for them, they'll have 8 more games to prove their worth, so it's a story worth tracking.  As for Ras-I (who I like), he can't be counted on at this point as he hasn't proven the ability to stay healthy at the college or pro level.  I'd like to see this position address in the off season, whether it's via the draft or FA.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    MB,
    Let me reply backwards.

    I don't think Molden nor Moore are starting NFL corners, but, in nickle/dime packages I'm good with the line up we have. Assuming of course Ras can get on the field. If he can't, as I said in previous post, I'm good with bringing in a FA CB. My only protest on adding a CB is via the draft. I just think we have too many young guys in that group, and they could benefit from some veteran leadership and presence.

    I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of ND football, and do trust your opinion. If Eifert declares and he as good as you say he is, it sounds like we'd have to depart with a high round pick for him. There is also the kid out of Clemson that I like Dwayne Allen. He is a junior, so not sure if he will go, but he also presents a nice TE option should we decide to go early.
    For now, I'm going to track the following TE's, assuming the juniors declare;
    1. Coby Fleener
    2. Tyler Eifert
    3. Dwayne Allen
    4. Michael Egnew (he's a bit light for an inline blocking TE, but he is sure one heck of a receiving threat). If he added 15-20lbs I'd feel more comfortable with him, but he was the leading receiver Missouri last year amongst a decently talented WR corps. In fact, he might be kind of like a Hern hybrid...TE/WR vs. TE/WR/HB.

    I do agree with you on CB being a better fit vs. Safety in nickle/dime because of coverage skills. I guess I come back to the question...is who we might possibly draft better than Molden/Moore/Arrington in nickle/dime? Here is where I have my problem unless we take a CB high, which I dont' want to do. Again, rather bring in an FA corner, pair him up wiht McCourty, Ras kicks in if healthy, Arrington plays the slot or Ras, and Molden/Moore are your dime CB's or needed as depth. I think this approach sures up that group better than taking a CB high who again, is unproven, and you know how we have been doing lately on college corners.

    On Floyd..It's not that I don't want him...if he made it to one of our 1sts, I would be all over him. I guess I think BB won't go that route for whatever reason. If Floyd makes it to somewhere in the late 20's, yes, I draft him. If that is the case, I would then use both of my 1sts, and with the other, grab either a LB or DT like I mentioned above in Worthy.

    Sorry, but I'm not into any more late round / UDFA talent on the line. We have enough of that already in Pryor, Love, Deaderick. Brace performs like one, so kick him in. I want us to draft a starting caliber, attacking DE. I'm going to assume we run more and more 4 man lines. I think a strong indication of that would be what they do with ACarter. He's performing really well, so there is no excuse not to sign him unless they decide to revert to more 4-3. If they do resign him, sign me up for Vinny Curry on the other side, and Worthy next to Vince. I think that makes a pretty formidable DL, with size and speed.

    LB is the part I can't figure out right now. It looks lilke most of the kids I lilke are going top 20. Who's left at the bottom of round 1, into round 2?
    Any thoughts on Travis Lewis out of Oklahoma? In a similar ilk to Nico Johnson in terms of size, but I like his aggressions, speed and how he plays the game.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    I'm tired of seeing Belichick draft DBs in the late 1st-mid 2nd rounds each year.  Call me crazy, but I actually think we're pretty much set with McCourty, Chung and Ras-I.  I think the big piece that's missing is a veteran presence at safety, much like Harrison provided leadership to a young group of guys (Samuel, E. Wilson, Gay) when he was brought onboard in '03.  Among the free agents available this year, I would target: Laron Landry, Michael Griffin and Dashon Goldson. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : haha true It is the kind of draft where a guy like Crick, Worthy or Winn might be a reach at 27-28.... but never make it to 57-58. I'd trade a 1st in '13 to get one of those guys in the 35-40 range. Or a guy like Hightower, Zach Brown or Janoris Jenkins if they fall from rd 1. Can't miss out on rd 1 talent b/c we'd have pick 27-32 in 2013 to use. I'd trade a 2nd in '13 to get a player like TE Coby Fleener, KR/CB Cliff Harris, C Ben Jones, or any of the 6'4" WR's and DE/OLB's that are projected to go late rd 2 and will not make it to our late 3rd rd pick.
    Posted by rameakap


    im with you and have been considering in my sleep the first round pick. not sure id go up with the 2nd in 13, but i agree with the concept and i wrote about this last year before the draft. it no longer makes sense to gather picks into the future. we had come to the point last year when we need the playmakers on our team now for what we can do now and as they gain experience they will need for us to win championships. we dopnt need the youngest, or one of, team every year. sooner or later we have to let it mature and capitalize .

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : im with you and have been considering in my sleep the first round pick. not sure id go up with the 2nd in 13, but i agree with the concept and i wrote about this last year before the draft. it no longer makes sense to gather picks into the future. we had come to the point last year when we need the playmakers on our team now for what we can do now and as they gain experience they will need for us to win championships. we dopnt need the youngest, or one of, team every year. sooner or later we have to let it mature and capitalize .
    Posted by bredbru


    i believe this team will finish no worse than 12-4. with that, i don't think bb will share your sentiment about saving picks for the future. 

    also, what if he thinks tb will play for only three more years after this year...don't you think he will want to have many picks for the post-tb era?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** : i believe this team will finish no worse than 12-4. with that, i don't think bb will share your sentiment about saving picks for the future.  also, what if he thinks tb will play for only three more years after this year...don't you think he will want to have many picks for the post-tb era?
    Posted by seattlepat70

    he may. thats his tendency. but id rather win a superbowl or 2 than save picks so we can have more mediocre players on the team in the future.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    be back when i have some time lifer to comment on your last post
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    would love to come out of the top of the draft with upshaw and worthy, thompson, taylor, jenkins or still, and an outside threat (though lamicheal james is causing me to take a look) as well as picking up a vet fs.. and wr in f.a..
       another concept im considering picking up the 2 best lb's first along with a dl/de, then onto whatever we didnt get in fa.

    2 areas that we need help in are rich in the draft (lb at the top  of the draft upshaw, hightower, one of the lewis of ou, etc) and wr through first 3 rounds, numerous
    (seen sanu and toon duo suggested as a good idea for the pats. had me smilin')

    dbs in top 2-3 look good, but rather use those picks as ive suggested above and get dbs through fa.

    would love to consider trading up in the 1st rd (to get our man) if bb were not our gm, and still getting 3 picks in the top 40. 

    dash and stash. forget about 11-13 picks a year

    at this moment, get the top talent where we need it and the developmental center.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***

    Below is my first mock (Rd’s 1-4) of the season (assuming they stand pat –bad pun intended- which likely won’t happen), based on the assumed team needs (OLB, S, CB, WR, C etc.), I also think they'll be drafting toward the bottom of Rd 1 with both of their picks.  Like past years, I feel it’s packed with tough, smart, versatile productive players that I think project well to NE’s schemes. 

    Additionally here are some of my assumptions:

    ü  They’ll continue with more of a base 43.

    ü
     
    They’ll target a WR via FA or trade (though it looks to be a solid WR class, I may change my mind).

    ü
     
    They’ll target a CB via FA or trade(though it looks to be a solid CB class, I may change my mind).

    ü
     
    They’ll likely acquire picks for the later rounds where they may target a C.

    1A-Mark Barron 6-1 220 S Alabama-  He’s an experience and versatile kid with experience lining up all over the field and within multiple coverages.  He’s a good sized kid that runs well, quickly reads the action and closes, is a solid yet physical tackler, is solid in coverage with excelling instincts and ball skills, he also brings some big play ability.  He also comes with the Saban/SEC pedigree.  He could be a day 1 starter at S for BB.

    1B- Melvin Ingram- 6-2 270 DE/DL South Carolina-  One of the better pass rushers in the country and is very disruptive behind the LOS.  Good quicks and gets off the snap well, very athletic, good motor, extremely versatile with the ability to play some 43 DT/DE also has some 34 OLB potential.

    2A- Billy Winn- 6-3 293 DL Boise State-  Good size and quickness, disruptive with the ability to penetrate and gets of the snap well, good use of hands, solid awareness and is extremely versatile with the ability to play DT/DE in a 43 as well as DE in a 34.  I think he’s a potential Rd 1 kid as well.

    2B-Tyler Eifert- 6-5 250 TE ND- A bit of a luxury pick here, but I think adding another dual threat TE to this offense would open things up even more (I consider Hernandez more of a WR).  This kid is the complete package at TE with excellent size and athleticism, good speed, quicks and route running and he really knows how to locate the soft spot in zone to get open, also has excellent RAC ability.  He also has good ability inline as a blocker. 


    3- Harrison Smith- 6-2 215 S ND-
    I see this kid play ever week and love what he brings to the table and think fans in NE would love his style of play.  He’s versatile with good size and athleticism, good range and ball skills with the ability to make plays, very aggressive and physical, good instincts and is always around the football (can quickly diagnose, close and blow up the ball carrier), solid angles, excellent tackler.   He was also a team captain and could eventually work his way into Rd 2.

    4- Audie Cole- 6-4-243 LB NC State- Very good size and length, versatile with the ability to play inside out, scheme diverse, good work ethic, very good motor, solid instincts and has some ability in coverage.

     
Sections
Shortcuts