Posted by rameakap
***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!
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Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/1/2012 11:16 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : yeah true so what do you think? We get a 3rd from whoever misses on Tannehill?
Posted by rameakapthere are more QBs than teams in need.i believe only two QBs get picked in the first round. a third QB could be picked by mia in the first, but i do not believe they have to. if the big board on espn's draft machine is a true reflection of how teams grade the prospects, the following QBs rated 2nd round are availableOsweilerWeedenFolesCousinsTeams who might need backup QBs:CLEJAXMaybe BUFi guess one could argue that hoyer would make a better backup than those guys. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:53 AM EDT
notes on sanu:NFL.com's Gil Brandt had Rutgers WR Mohamed Sanu at 4.54 and 4.55 in the forty at the Scarlet Knights' Pro Day.
A previous report had Sanu at 4.41, but that time was obviously agent-inflated. Sanu, who ran 4.67 "officially" at the Combine, lacks long speed to be a game breaker in the NFL. He'll have to make his money working inside the numbers(not what we are looking for-at least with our first wr pick) -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 8:20 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Before anyone goes all Mike Mayock yeah yeah, especially on DB's cause he was one yeah yeah... Let's not forget it was only a couple years ago that he had Darius Butler as #3 and Alphonso Smith as #4(neither one has a starting job at the moment)... just as one example. or how about chip vaughn #5 safety a couple years ago. Not even in the league I don't think. Kyle Wilson he had #2 and in defense of that ranking he is behind Revis and Cromartie but the jets were willing to let Cro go when courting Asmmmuuahhh(too lazy to look up spelling) but didn't want to start Wilson. or how about Mayock ranking Taylor Mays as his #2 safety. He's just about out of the league now too isn't he? SF - /> Cin and not on Cin depth chart currently?? IR?? Not dumping on Mayock but don't think anyone should be using a players rank on Mayocks list as any sort of validation. (not sure if those were his "final" rankings but I looked for posts/updates that happened in April of those years)
Posted by Low-FB-IQ
This is true but no one is perfect. Truth of the matter is Mayock is one of the best. He hits more often and is generally right more often then he is wrong. He also ranks guys some people never heard of in his top 5 and hits on them too. You should always take anything any analyst says with a grain of salt but if he's in Mayock's top 5 list then odds that they will at least be a starter verses a bust.
I do agree Mayock's ranking shouldn't be considered the end all be all but just being on his list should be enough for consideration -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 9:00 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Wow, this is tough. How the heck are we going to find space for 6 rookies to make the 53? I don't think we can so I'd actually look to trade pick 31 for 2013 first to a bad team. Maybe St. Louis wouldn't mind since they have a pair of #1s each of the next 2 years? I would then trade our 4th for a 2013 3rd. If we added 4 picks similar to this, we'd be pretty set. Ideally we'd get Cox at 27 but he's probably gone and I'm not sold on Reyes. Most likely Smith will be gone before 62 so we are probably moving McCourty over and taking a CB. Personally I'd dump Hoyer and draft a WR. The depth is too good to pass up and we are too old at the position but my God, how can we fit another WR unless we cut Ocho? I'm already writing off Gonzales and Allen. OFFENSE 25 Players Slot 31 W Welker '12 26 Edelman '12 WR 31 B. Lloyd '14 34 Ochocinco '13 LOT 23 N Solder '15 LG 31 R Gallery '12 31 Mankins '16 PUP C 30 D. Connolly '14 26 Wendell '13 ROG 35 B. Waters '12 #94 S. Kelemete RT 27 Vollmer '12 24 M. Cannon '14 TE 23 Gronkowski '13 22 Hernandez '13 28 D Fells '14 QB 35 Tom Brady '14 26 Hoyer '12 24 Mallett '14 RB 23 S. Veeren '14 26 Woodhead '12 23 S. Ridley '14 S Larson '13 T. Fiammetta WR 33 Branch '12 31 Stallworth '12 DEFENSE 25 Players DE 30 J Fanene '14 26 Pryor '13 Cunningham '13 NT 30 Wilfork '14 25 R. Brace '12 DE 25 Deaderick '13 26 Love '12 OLB/DE #27 A. Branch #48 S. McClellin ILB 26 Mayo '16 25 Fletcher '12 24 J Tarpinian ILB 25 B Spikes '13 31 T White '14 OLB 29 Ninkovich '13 28 T Scott '12 LCB 23 Dowling '14 23 S Moore '12 RCB 26 McCourty '14 26 Arrington '12 SS 25 Chung '12 24 S Brown '13 FS #62 H. Smith 29 S. Gregory '14 27 M Slater '14 SPECIAL TEAMS 3 PK 28 Gostkowski '14 P 25 Z. Mesko '13 LS 24 D Aiken
Posted by Faucetman
Hey Faucet,
just saw your latest depth chart and had some comments on it.- H. Smith - Not sure if he makes it to the back of the second. Most consider him the 2nd best S in the draft. If Barron goes between 15-25 Smith might even sneak into the back end of the 1st. Additionally I don't think he fits well on the Pats. Barron is slightly better in coverage then Chung so you could have them paired next to eachother but Smith and Chung are extremely similar players. Not sure if I'd want them paired up next to eachother.
- S. Kelemete - don't know if I'd want to go a backup G that early. I like Kelemete but I don't see him as a long term starter in the league. They have a couple of guys currently on the roster that they are high on I'd rather use in the backup role to get them reps (ala McDonald)
- No interior DL? I'm not sure I like putting all the eggs into both Fanene and Deadrick being able to be full time starters. I'd feel much more comfortable if they took a Still, Reyes, Wolfe earlier in the draft and pick the best 2 of the three or even have them in rotational. I just think you are putting to much faith in 2 players who haven't proven, yet, they can be full time starters in this system without having a backup plan. It's kind of an anti-BB move.
- McClellin and Branch - BB loves Nin so you have 1 starting position filled. They also picked up Scott who has high upside and they still have Cunningham, Tarp, and Carter. I see them going after (Branch, McClellin, or Curry) early but I can't see them doubling down on OLB's that early
All in all it's very reasonable they could go in the direction you are leaning towards but given the current roster I just can't see some of the players you listed -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 10:30 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Amini Silatolu is the true definition of a "Man Among Boys" at the DII level... he looks like a grown man playing against Pop Warner kids. Just a nasty, nasty dude... Gronk smashing players into the ground all over the field... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1vMglvFlE Would love to see what Dante could do with his raw strength/ability.
Posted by mbeaulieu07
I am intrigued by him too but given his level of competition, he's likely to have a longer learning curve in the pros. But we could be in a position to give him a year to learn before seeing much action if Waters returns.
I was thinking if we went interior OL maybe we'd do it a little further down the board with a guy like Kelemete who was also a LT, but at Washington which I think we'd agree is a better program. He too projects inside. He has about the same measurables as Silatolu but is projected as a late 3rd vs. mid 2nd.
BB loves versatile guys, the signing of Gallery being the latest example. I know Kelemete was also a tackle but didn't play against elite defenders. Mankins was also an OT as was Cannon. He doesn't really have any OL on the team that can't play multiple positions. Silatolu is the stronger of the two but Kelemete is by far the more athletic especially in the movement drills. So, if we are going to coach someone up and wait a year for them to be ready, I'd rather do it in the 3rd. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 10:42 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Before anyone goes all Mike Mayock yeah yeah, especially on DB's cause he was one yeah yeah... Let's not forget it was only a couple years ago that he had Darius Butler as #3 and Alphonso Smith as #4(neither one has a starting job at the moment)... just as one example. or how about chip vaughn #5 safety a couple years ago. Not even in the league I don't think. Kyle Wilson he had #2 and in defense of that ranking he is behind Revis and Cromartie but the jets were willing to let Cro go when courting Asmmmuuahhh(too lazy to look up spelling) but didn't want to start Wilson. or how about Mayock ranking Taylor Mays as his #2 safety. He's just about out of the league now too isn't he? SF - /> Cin and not on Cin depth chart currently?? IR?? Not dumping on Mayock but don't think anyone should be using a players rank on Mayocks list as any sort of validation. (not sure if those were his "final" rankings but I looked for posts/updates that happened in April of those years)
Posted by Low-FB-IQ
Yeah but he was high on Brandon Flowers and was proven correct there. The draft is a crap shoot. As much time as we all spend on it, we often get them wrong too. I liked Crable, Butler and Taylor Price - all busts. But I also liked a lot of guys we passed on who ended up being great.
Of all the so called experts, I like Mayock the most but I don't consider him the final word. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 10:50 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : yeah true so what do you think? We get a 3rd from whoever misses on Tannehill?
Posted by rameakap
To be honest, I think a 5th would be as good as it gets for a guy with no NFL starts and only garbage time minutes with a QB rating of 80, especially when he came undrafted. But I don't think anyone will trade for him when they can draft someone with potentially more upside before the 5th. I think Hoyer is insurance for one more year then allowed to walk and probably won't ever get a chance to start.
Any team considering Hoyer would likely be looking at him as a back-up, not a starter. He isn't going to beat out Colt McCoy in Cleveland or Moore in Miami and who else is looking for a starter? Arizona? Not after paying Kolb $7MM. Tennessee? Jacksonville? I don't see it. One of those teams will take Tannehill and the other Weedon. Then you have at least 3-4 other QBs that will go before the 4th that teams will be higher on. I just don't see a market for Hoyer and he may not even stick on our roster if Mallett shows good improvement and grasp of the offense. A 3rd QB with the talent we have on this team might be a luxury that we end up not willing to afford. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 11:05 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I am intrigued by him too but given his level of competition, he's likely to have a longer learning curve in the pros. But we could be in a position to give him a year to learn before seeing much action if Waters returns. I was thinking if we went interior OL maybe we'd do it a little further down the board with a guy like Kelemete who was also a LT, but at Washington which I think we'd agree is a better program. He too projects inside. He has about the same measurables as Silatolu but is projected as a late 3rd vs. mid 2nd. BB loves versatile guys, the signing of Gallery being the latest example. I know Kelemete was also a tackle but didn't play against elite defenders. Mankins was also an OT as was Cannon. He doesn't really have any OL on the team that can't play multiple positions. Silatolu is the stronger of the two but Kelemete is by far the more athletic especially in the movement drills. So, if we are going to coach someone up and wait a year for them to be ready, I'd rather do it in the 3rd.
Posted by Faucetman
I'm with you on Kelemete, have had him firmly in Rd 3 on My Draft Board thread since the end of Feb. Good size for OG, moves very well for his size (good feet/quicks) and has some nastiness to him. Still a bit raw as he's only been on the OL since 2009 (went to UW as a DL I believe), but looks to have a lot of upside. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 11:11 AM EDT
Eng, my comments in red.
Hey Faucet,
just saw your latest depth chart and had some comments on it.H. Smith - Not sure if he makes it to the back of the second. Most consider him the 2nd best S in the draft. If Barron goes between 15-25 Smith might even sneak into the back end of the 1st. Additionally I don't think he fits well on the Pats. Barron is slightly better in coverage then Chung so you could have them paired next to eachother but Smith and Chung are extremely similar players. Not sure if I'd want them paired up next to eachother. I agree Smith might not make it to the back of the 2nd. Someone will reach. Perhaps the smartest play and the one BB will ultimately do is move McCourty to FS and draft a CB. There is no doubt in my mind that we have to do more to improve our secondary than signing 34 year old Allen and back-up Gregory. We can't count on Dowling and Arrington was burned a lot even though he had a lot of picks. I like Chung but he seems to be injury prone, that's why I thought Smith could be a good addition. Maybe we'll get lucky and Kirkpatrick will slip to 27.
- S. Kelemete - don't know if I'd want to go a backup G that early. I like Kelemete but I don't see him as a long term starter in the league. They have a couple of guys currently on the roster that they are high on I'd rather use in the backup role to get them reps (ala McDonald) Pick 94 isn't early IMO. I actually would prefer to see Cannon at RG more this year.
- No interior DL? I'm not sure I like putting all the eggs into both Fanene and Deadrick being able to be full time starters. I'd feel much more comfortable if they took a Still, Reyes, Wolfe earlier in the draft and pick the best 2 of the three or even have them in rotational. I just think you are putting to much faith in 2 players who haven't proven, yet, they can be full time starters in this system without having a backup plan. It's kind of an anti-BB move. BB hasn't been using high picks on the DL of late. That's a fact. Even in 2010 when it was deep DT class, and he traded Seymour, he waited until the 7th. He used a 2nd on Brace in '09 but at the time Wilfork was threatening to not sign the tag and hold out. Not counting Brace, you have to go back to '04 and Wilfork to find a DL taken in the first 5 rounds.
- McClellin and Branch - BB loves Nin so you have 1 starting position filled. They also picked up Scott who has high upside and they still have Cunningham, Tarp, and Carter. I see them going after (Branch, McClellin, or Curry) early but I can't see them doubling down on OLB's that early. Depth is needed at OLB. We have Ninko, Scott and Cunningham. Both Scott and Cunningham have a horrible track record of staying healthy. Both are considered more as situational guys too IMO. We may not double down but the case to do so could be made.
All in all it's very reasonable they could go in the direction you are leaning towards but given the current roster I just can't see some of the players you listed -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 11:31 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : This is true but no one is perfect. Truth of the matter is Mayock is one of the best. He hits more often and is generally right more often then he is wrong. He also ranks guys some people never heard of in his top 5 and hits on them too. You should always take anything any analyst says with a grain of salt but if he's in Mayock's top 5 list then odds that they will at least be a starter verses a bust. I do agree Mayock's ranking shouldn't be considered the end all be all but just being on his list should be enough for consideration
Posted by PatsEngPats I am not dumping on him but I am not sure he's any better than anyone else. He's only doing Top 5's for 13 positions. 65 players total. Half of those Top 5 lists could all be off the board by the end of the 1st round. He's just listing the highend and pretty much most people would have very very similar top 4 or 5 players at a given position. If the majority of those players are going in the 1st two rounds then of course the percentages are good that they are going to be given extra time to pan out and or become starters.Just quick examples from two seperate lists...Scouts Inc Top31 Mayock Top5's----------------- --------------QB QBLuck LuckGriffin GriffinTannehill TannehillOsweiler WeedenOT OTKalil KalilReiff ReiffMartin MartinAdams AdamsGlenn GlennWR WRBlackmon BlackmonFloyd FloydWright WrightCB CBClaiborne ClaiborneJenkins GilmoreKirkpatrick KirkpatrickGilmore JenkinsDT DTPoe PoeBrockers CoxCox BrockersWorthy WorthyStill StillIt's almost always a general consensus for the top 4 or 5 players by position, sure the order might differ but difference and or personal preference between the order is often ever so slight. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 11:55 AM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I'm with you on Kelemete, have had him firmly in Rd 3 on My Draft Board thread since the end of Feb. Good size for OG, moves very well for his size (good feet/quicks) and has some nastiness to him. Still a bit raw as he's only been on the OL since 2009 (went to UW as a DL I believe), but looks to have a lot of upside.
Posted by mbeaulieu07
I think our views are similar then. In looking at everything, we have done far more on the offensive side of the ball in F/A than on the defensive side; 6 potential keepers on offense vs. 3 on defense. I wonder what would happen if both Light and Waters retire? We are supposedly at $9.5MM under the cap and those guys retiring would put us $16.75MM under. But I digress...
A case should be made that we go defense with our first 4 picks and 5 of 6 assuming we use them all. I think we can go to war with our offense as currently constituted but we clearly have multiple needs in the secondary, 1-2 needs at OLB and 1 at DT/DE. We may ultimately bring back Carter if he's fully recovered by August. But, I'd still argue for a 43 DT or a 34 DE in the draft. I don't like Brace and Cunningham, never did. Hated both picks at the time and still do.
So, how do we fix our secondary? McCourty to FS? Alright, then who starts at CB, Arrington and Dowling with Moore or Allen as the nickel? Do we draft a CB? If so where and who? Gilmore, Jenkins, Hosley, Robinson?
Do we draft a 34 DE? Worthy, Reyes and Still are the only guys I see potentially being there at 27/31. But there are a bunch of 43 interior types that could be had later on.
What do we do about OLB opposite Ninko? We can't be pinning our hopes on Scott and Cunningham. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:22 PM EDT
Low you are right, but if they are expected to go in the 1st round then wouldn't you expect them to be on his top 5 list? What's the point of a top 5 list if you list a bunch of day 3 guys?
The main thing is to look at guys like Weeden that he tosses in every so often. Actually I think he had Mankins on his list before too. He does list off some off the beat names on occasion and it's those random names not in most peoples top 64 that gives him credibility imo. If he just listed off a bunch of 1st round names you would have a good point but you can't fault the guy for most of his lists containing 1st round picks, otherwise they wouldn't be considered 1st round picks. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:27 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I know you like yourself some O-lineman, Faucet, check out Amini Silatolu if you haven't already... I'm kinda late in the game in terms of checking this kid out, but wow... just annihilates DII competition.
Posted by mbeaulieu07I think something needs to be said about Dante Scarnecchia and the job that he's done with the offensive line. Due to his coaching ablilities, we really haven't had the need to draft linemen in the 1st round. He's done extremely well with late rounders and FA's that no other team really wanted. I'm sure whoever they draft will be pretty dominant.His bio is really impressive. 26 years with the Pats, only coach of the organization to be with the team during all 6 SB runs. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:33 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Low you are right, but if they are expected to go in the 1st round then wouldn't you expect them to be on his top 5 list? What's the point of a top 5 list if you list a bunch of day 3 guys? The main thing is to look at guys like Weeden that he tosses in every so often. Actually I think he had Mankins on his list before too. He does list off some off the beat names on occasion and it's those random names not in most peoples top 64 that gives him credibility imo. If he just listed off a bunch of 1st round names you would have a good point but you can't fault the guy for most of his lists containing 1st round picks, otherwise they wouldn't be considered 1st round picks.
Posted by PatsEng
If Weedon was 22 he'd be rated a lot higher, possibly up there with Tannehill. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:35 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I think something needs to be said about Dante Scarnecchia and the job that he's done with the offensive line. Due to his coaching ablilities, we really haven't had the need to draft linemen in the 1st round. He's done extremely well with late rounders and FA's that no other team really wanted. I'm sure whoever they draft will be pretty dominant. http://archive.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=510 His bio is really impressive. 26 years with the Pats, only coach of the organization to be with the team during all 6 SB runs.
Posted by Army2LT
Yeah, he's pretty darn good at his job. But he has had some high picks to work with too. Mankins, Solder in the 1st, Vollmer, Light in the 2nd. Cannon belonged in the 2nd if it wasn't for his cancer. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:47 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Yeah, he's pretty darn good at his job. But he has had some high picks to work with too. Mankins, Solder in the 1st, Vollmer, Light in the 2nd. Cannon belonged in the 2nd if it wasn't for his cancer.
Posted by Faucetman
You listed off some top end talent but how about some of the lesser guys he's coached to a pro-bowl level?
Koppen
Neal (never even played football at a high level before joining the Pats)
are 2 off the top of my head but if I really thought about it I'm sure I could come up with a bunch -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 1:49 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Low you are right, but if they are expected to go in the 1st round then wouldn't you expect them to be on his top 5 list? What's the point of a top 5 list if you list a bunch of day 3 guys? The main thing is to look at guys like Weeden that he tosses in every so often. Actually I think he had Mankins on his list before too. He does list off some off the beat names on occasion and it's those random names not in most peoples top 64 that gives him credibility imo. If he just listed off a bunch of 1st round names you would have a good point but you can't fault the guy for most of his lists containing 1st round picks, otherwise they wouldn't be considered 1st round picks.
Posted by PatsEngExactly, I am NOT faulting him. I am saying he's the same. You mentioned Weeden but I only had access to scoutsinc free top 31 and pull from looking down that list but if Weeden was next QB in rest of list then he's in thier top 5 as well. Again showing Mayock as NOT finding any out on a limb guys. Again not knocking him, just saying no different, no better, imo.I personally would put just as much stock in your top 5 by position as I would his.Also, on Mankins, in all fairness, Mankins was mocked to the Patriots in the 1st round that year by three or four places. He wasn't an unknown. Somehow word got out cause I personally remember not knowing too much about him but going to look him up after seeing him mocked in the 1st round to the Pats. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 2:30 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I think our views are similar then. In looking at everything, we have done far more on the offensive side of the ball in F/A than on the defensive side; 6 potential keepers on offense vs. 3 on defense. I wonder what would happen if both Light and Waters retire? We are supposedly at $9.5MM under the cap and those guys retiring would put us $16.75MM under. But I digress... A case should be made that we go defense with our first 4 picks and 5 of 6 assuming we use them all. I think we can go to war with our offense as currently constituted but we clearly have multiple needs in the secondary, 1-2 needs at OLB and 1 at DT/DE. We may ultimately bring back Carter if he's fully recovered by August. But, I'd still argue for a 43 DT or a 34 DE in the draft. I don't like Brace and Cunningham, never did. Hated both picks at the time and still do. So, how do we fix our secondary? McCourty to FS? Alright, then who starts at CB, Arrington and Dowling with Moore or Allen as the nickel? Do we draft a CB? If so where and who? Gilmore, Jenkins, Hosley, Robinson? Do we draft a 34 DE? Worthy, Reyes and Still are the only guys I see potentially being there at 27/31. But there are a bunch of 43 interior types that could be had later on. What do we do about OLB opposite Ninko? We can't be pinning our hopes on Scott and Cunningham.
Posted by Faucetman
I think our views are similar then. In looking at everything, we have done far more on the offensive side of the ball in F/A than on the defensive side; 6 potential keepers on offense vs. 3 on defense. I wonder what would happen if both Light and Waters retire? We are supposedly at $9.5MM under the cap and those guys retiring would put us $16.75MM under. But I digress...
A case should be made that we go defense with our first 4 picks and 5 of 6 assuming we use them all. I think we can go to war with our offense as currently constituted but we clearly have multiple needs in the secondary, 1-2 needs at OLB and 1 at DT/DE. We may ultimately bring back Carter if he's fully recovered by August. But, I'd still argue for a 43 DT or a 34 DE in the draft. I don't like Brace and Cunningham, never did. Hated both picks at the time and still do. I too would prefer to see a defense heavy draft, particularly with the first (4) picks. Could still see them coming out of Rd 3 and 4 with some combo of a WR/OL/RB. If they go O-skill high, Doug Martin, Alshon Jeffery and Rueben Randle are still on top of my board in Rd 2.
So, how do we fix our secondary? McCourty to FS? Alright, then who starts at CB, Arrington and Dowling with Moore or Allen as the nickel? Do we draft a CB? If so where and who? Gilmore, Jenkins, Hosley, Robinson?Personally, I think they’d prefer to keep McCourty at CB, start him opposite Dowling with Aarington/Moore getting the first opps in nickel/dime etc., but his experience at FS could give them more flexibility in the draft. Having both McCourty and Gregory getting regular reps back there could leave them a bit short on size at the S position though. I think they take atleast one DB between Day 1 / 2.
Do we draft a 34 DE? Worthy, Reyes and Still are the only guys I see potentially being there at 27/31. But there are a bunch of 43 interior types that could be had later on.Would make sense to, assuming the talent is there. I could also see them having interest in Cox/Brockers assuming one of them is on the board in the early 20’s. Still has more upside/natural ability than Reyes, but Reyes has a more consistent motor etc.
What do we do about OLB opposite Ninko? We can't be pinning our hopes on Scott and Cunningham.Would still like to see a young 34 OLB or two brought in (McClellin/Curry/Johnson etc.). -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 2:50 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I think something needs to be said about Dante Scarnecchia and the job that he's done with the offensive line. Due to his coaching ablilities, we really haven't had the need to draft linemen in the 1st round. He's done extremely well with late rounders and FA's that no other team really wanted. I'm sure whoever they draft will be pretty dominant. http://archive.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=510 His bio is really impressive. 26 years with the Pats, only coach of the organization to be with the team during all 6 SB runs.
Posted by Army2LT
Amen to that. I mean there's been some day 1/2 talent sprinkled in during the BB years (Klemm/Light/Mankins/Vollmer/Solder etc.), but yes, he's done an excellent job of developing/incorporating late round/URFA type players. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 3:06 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I think our views are similar then. In looking at everything, we have done far more on the offensive side of the ball in F/A than on the defensive side; 6 potential keepers on offense vs. 3 on defense. I wonder what would happen if both Light and Waters retire? We are supposedly at $9.5MM under the cap and those guys retiring would put us $16.75MM under. But I digress... A case should be made that we go defense with our first 4 picks and 5 of 6 assuming we use them all. I think we can go to war with our offense as currently constituted but we clearly have multiple needs in the secondary, 1-2 needs at OLB and 1 at DT/DE. We may ultimately bring back Carter if he's fully recovered by August. But, I'd still argue for a 43 DT or a 34 DE in the draft. I don't like Brace and Cunningham, never did. Hated both picks at the time and still do. I too would prefer to see a defense heavy draft, particularly with the first (4) picks. Could still see them coming out of Rd 3 and 4 with some combo of a WR/OL/RB. If they go O-skill high, Doug Martin, Alshon Jeffery and Rueben Randle are still on top of my board in Rd 2. So, how do we fix our secondary? McCourty to FS? Alright, then who starts at CB, Arrington and Dowling with Moore or Allen as the nickel? Do we draft a CB? If so where and who? Gilmore, Jenkins, Hosley, Robinson? Personally, I think they’d prefer to keep McCourty at CB, start him opposite Dowling with Aarington/Moore getting the first opps in nickel/dime etc., but his experience at FS could give them more flexibility in the draft. Having both McCourty and Gregory getting regular reps back there could leave them a bit short on size at the S position though. I think they take atleast one DB between Day 1 / 2. Do we draft a 34 DE? Worthy, Reyes and Still are the only guys I see potentially being there at 27/31. But there are a bunch of 43 interior types that could be had later on. Would make sense to, assuming the talent is there. I could also see them having interest in Cox/Brockers assuming one of them is on the board in the early 20’s. Still has more upside/natural ability than Reyes, but Reyes has a more consistent motor etc. What do we do about OLB opposite Ninko? We can't be pinning our hopes on Scott and Cunningham. Would still like to see a young 34 OLB or two brought in (McClellin/Curry/Johnson etc.).
Posted by mbeaulieu07
No arguments here. But I don't think we can address FS in the draft with anyone who could actually step in the first year and improve us unless we got our hands on Barron. I do think Harrison Smith could potentially see the field.
I tend to agree with you that McCourty should stay at CB if possible. I'm hoping last year was a sophomore jinx and he will rebound this year.
As for DL, I actually had the same idea. Why not move up to get Cox if he comes into range? A potential trading partner could be the Eagles. They are sitting at 15 and need an OT. If the top 3 are gone, they could perhaps get Adams at 27 and we could move up to 15 for Cox. The trading chart can be pretty much thrown out now so not sure what it would take to get up there, hopefully just our 2nd and maybe throw Hoyer in for good measure. -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 3:13 PM EDT
I still hold out hope that we add some talent, other than Carter, like Bell, who I have been screaming for for 2 weeks now.
If the draft were to happen today, with ZERO changes to the roster, and NO trading around (yeah right) here are 3 directions I would go in first 3 rounds from best case to least:
BEST
27 - Barron
31 - Still or Reyes
48 - Jenkins
63 - McClellin
95 - Crick, Winn or Wolfe
GOOD
27 - Upshaw or Cox
31 - Gilmore or Jenkins
48 - Curry/McClellin/Branch (if Cox) or Worthy (if Upshaw)
63 - Iloka or Johnson
95 - Crick, Winn or Wolfe
WORST
27 - Reyes or Worthy
31 - McClellin
48 - Robinson, Boykin or Hosley
63 - Iloka or Johnson
95 - Kheeston Randall
I really want to see all defense all the time, and obviously I like McClellin, maybe the next Bruschi/Vrabel as well as multiple CB's and DE/DT types
I'm pretty sure rd 4 can be a C (if Waters and Light are back) like Jones, Molk or Blake or if we need help at G/T b/c or retirement a guy like Nate Potter
RB remains an issue but I'd rather try to solve it in May/June when more cuts are on the board or and we can trade a future 1st (Forte) or 2nd (Stewart) instead of having to use picks from this year -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 4:40 PM EDT
Actually, I wouldn't have a major problem if we did this.
ESPN's eight reporters who cover the NFL's eight divisions team up for their "blog network" mock draft. James Walker, who has the AFC East blanketed, plays the role of Bill Belichick and makes the Patriots' selections.
Clemson defensive end/outside linebacker Andre Branch is the pick at No. 27."The Patriots need athleticism on defense and the ability to rush the passer from the outside," Walker writes. "Branch can help replace the combined 20 sacks New England lost this offseason with the departures of DEs Mark Anderson and Andre Carter."
Then, at No. 31, Walker rolls the dice with cornerback Janoris Jenkins."Jenkins comes with some character concerns. But New England's strong locker-room leadership will make sure it gets the best out of Jenkins, who has the physical ability to develop into a legit No. 1 corner," Walker writes.
-
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 4:47 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:I still hold out hope that we add some talent, other than Carter, like Bell, who I have been screaming for for 2 weeks now. If the draft were to happen today, with ZERO changes to the roster, and NO trading around (yeah right) here are 3 directions I would go in first 3 rounds from best case to least: BEST 27 - Barron 31 - Still or Reyes 48 - Jenkins 63 - McClellin 95 - Crick, Winn or Wolfe GOOD 27 - Upshaw or Cox 31 - Gilmore or Jenkins 48 - Curry/McClellin/Branch (if Cox) or Worthy (if Upshaw) 63 - Iloka or Johnson 95 - Crick, Winn or Wolfe WORST 27 - Reyes or Worthy 31 - McClellin 48 - Robinson, Boykin or Hosley 63 - Iloka or Johnson 95 - Kheeston Randall I really want to see all defense all the time, and obviously I like McClellin, maybe the next Bruschi/Vrabel as well as multiple CB's and DE/DT types I'm pretty sure rd 4 can be a C (if Waters and Light are back) like Jones, Molk or Blake or if we need help at G/T b/c or retirement a guy like Nate Potter RB remains an issue but I'd rather try to solve it in May/June when more cuts are on the board or and we can trade a future 1st (Forte) or 2nd (Stewart) instead of having to use picks from this year
Posted by rameakap
These are certainly some fine options. Let me take a crack at it.
27. Cox
31. Branch
48. Randle
62. H. Smith
94. M. Martin
4th Rainey -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 4:49 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:Actually, I wouldn't have a major problem if we did this. ESPN's eight reporters who cover the NFL's eight divisions team up for their "blog network" mock draft. James Walker, who has the AFC East blanketed, plays the role of Bill Belichick and makes the Patriots' selections. Clemson defensive end/outside linebacker Andre Branch is the pick at No. 27. "The Patriots need athleticism on defense and the ability to rush the passer from the outside," Walker writes. "Branch can help replace the combined 20 sacks New England lost this offseason with the departures of DEs Mark Anderson and Andre Carter." Then, at No. 31, Walker rolls the dice with cornerback Janoris Jenkins. "Jenkins comes with some character concerns. But New England's strong locker-room leadership will make sure it gets the best out of Jenkins, who has the physical ability to develop into a legit No. 1 corner," Walker writes.
Posted by Faucetman
Any idea as to who else was on the board at 27 & 31 for their mock? -
Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!
posted at 4/2/2012 5:01 PM EDT
In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Amen to that. I mean there's been some day 1/2 talent sprinkled in during the BB years (Klemm/Light/Mankins/Vollmer/Solder etc.), but yes, he's done an excellent job of developing/incorporating late round/URFA type players.
Posted by mbeaulieu07There are 1/2 talent sprinkled in there, but he seems to do well with just about anyone we bring in. Neal comes to mind when I think of what he's done. Did he only wrestle in college?Our DB Coach has been pretty good too. Who is it Corwin Brown? Seeing how little he's had to work with (no namers and WRs), he's pretty impressive too, no?So, I'm not thinking that BB will be spending any of the tops picks at this position (especially since Ras-I Dowling will be coming back). I don't see WR either. Or QB, or TE, or RB either.I'm thinking that BB trades out or up and we end up with a front 7 guy or two.