***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    to MB and others with extensive draft canidate profiles.

    NFL radio had an interview today with Noah Miller  ILB/ OLB from Ohio Univ. He said that he has a workout on Tuesday with the Pats.I have not even seen his name on any of the publications I have ( OK just the USA today sports weekly! I actually rely on you guys.)

    What do you have on him? Although he played in the MAC , he showed well against OSU,Va Tech, and Tennessee.

    It was interesting that Randy Cross said this is what BB does. He will look at canidates that he might not draft but does research for possible FA signings ..but moreover, guys that would be drafted late by other teams  and quite possibly be cut. He then has some assurety and knowledge when he needs to add someone later in the season because of injuries. I was impressed that, if this is true, BB is doing homework for seasonal long term contingencies, not just the short term , ie April draft.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    to MB and others with extensive draft canidate profiles. NFL radio had an interview today with Noah Miller  ILB/ OLB from Ohio Univ. He said that he has a workout on Tuesday with the Pats.I have not even seen his name on any of the publications I have ( OK just the USA today sports weekly! I actually rely on you guys.) What do you have on him? Although he played in the MAC , he showed well against OSU,Va Tech, and Tennessee. It was interesting that Randy Cross said this is what BB does. He will look at canidates that he might not draft but does research for possible FA signings ..but moreover, guys that would be drafted late by other teams  and quite possibly be cut. He then has some assurety and knowledge when he needs to add someone later in the season because of injuries. I was impressed that, if this is true, BB is doing homework for seasonal long term contingencies, not just the short term , ie April draft.
    Posted by mgraham



    mg,
    Not a kid that I'm familiar with, but after looking into him, he has the size BB looks for at ILB (6-1 245) and while  he's a limited athlete, he runs well (4.63), can stack and shed, has excellent instincts and is a solid tackler.

    Def projects as a late round/URFA type, but as was mentioned above, BB is doing his homework... good fit inside where his lack of range will be minimized a bit.

    Thanks for the name, gonna add him to my late round watch list.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!": ...  On Jenkins, I may be in the minority here, but there is no way I take him in this draft. Unquestionable talent or not, he has more than his share of issues, and doesn't compare at all to Hernandez or mallet. PatsEng detailed this pretty thoroughly above so no need to rehash. Personally, I don't get how Jenkins drops a round or two, but vontaze burfict, who is arguably a 1 st round talent as well drops completely out with far less off the field issues? I would be more inclined to take a chance on burfict later in the draft than Jenkins . Jenkins is a timebomb ticking.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    i completely agree with you on jenkins. bottomline i believe bb does not want any player who needs to be constantly baby sat. with hern, etc, bb saw it was not going to be a problem. in jenkins' case, the pattern of behavior indicates he will need to be "mentored" (baby-sat)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Here is my second attempt at a Pats mock.  Let me know what you think.

    #27 TRADED to Indianapolis for #34, #97, and #208
    Indianapolis jumps San Fran and the Giants to take Andrew Luck's college teammate and favorite target in Coby Fleener.  The Pats get some more depth for later in the Draft.

    #31 Harrison Smith-S-Notre Dame
    Smith is the 2nd best safety in the draft, and there is a significant dropoff after him.  He is a smart, dedicated football player, and seems to be the Patriots type of player.  He can line up at both FS and SS, meaning he has the versatility BB likes in his players.  The Patriots need a safety, and Harrison Smith seems to be the best choice they can realistically make to fill the hole. He should contend for playing time from Day One.

    #34 Shea McClellin-DE/OLB/ILB-Boise State
    He's hard working, smart, and versatile, all traits that BB craves in his players. McClellin is a strong pass rusher who should come in and improve the team's pass rush from Day One.  The Pats will undoubtedly play him all over the field, and such versatility will increase his chances of making an impact on day one. This guy's motor never stops running, and we cannot let him slip out of our hands like we did with players such as Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, and Clay Matthews.

    #48 Derek Wolfe-DE/DT-Cincinnati
    A very strong pass rusher, Wolfe is also fairly stout against the run.  He has very good size and a strong motor.  He has played all across the line, meaning he has the versatility that BB likes.  This might be a little high for Wolfe, but BB has been known to grab his guys early in the process, besides, Wolfe is a solid Round 2-3 prospect anyways.  Wolfe should be a contributor on the NE D-Line early on next season.

    #62 TRADED to Washington for #69 and #141
    Washington trades a couple later picks to jump back into the 2nd round after losing the pick in the RGIII Deal.

    #69 Chase Minnefield-CB-Virginia
    Has the NFL bloodlines that the Pats love.  Minnefield was viewed as a 1st round talent in the pre-season, but saw his numbers decline due to teams throwing away from him.  He slipped a little due to a somewhat short combine measurement, and a recent knee surgery.  Still, he represents very good value at this point in the draft.

    #93 TRADED for 2013 2nd
    Some team will do it.

    #97 Chris Rainey-HB/WR/KR/PR-Florida
    Has explosive speed and has tremendous versatility on offense.  While he is too small to be an every down back in the NFL, that is not the role he would play with the Pats.  He can be an explosive returner, and could be a very nice weapon on the offense.  Plus, we all know how much BB loves the Florida kids.

    #126 TRADED to Philly for #153 and #196
    Pats and Eagles have to keep up the streak, and Philly has an abundance of late round picks.  They package them to move up, and BB picks up his coveted late round picks.

    #141 Audie Cole-ILB-North Carolina State
    The Pats pick up some depth at LB.  Audie Cole has good size for an ILB in New England's system, and at this point, more depth cannot hurt.

    #153 Greg Childs-WR-Arkansas
    He's coming off an injury riddled season, but the athletisism is there.  With so few needs, the Pats can afford to take a chance on a 6-3 receiver who runs a 4.39.

    #196 David Molk-C-Michigan
    They draft a late round depth prospect for some depth at the Center position. They re-signed Koppen so this isn't a burning issue.

    #208 Joe Long-OT-Wayne State
    Jake Long's brother.  At this point, the Pats add to their stable of Offensive Linemen.  There isn't much more they need to do.



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I don't know that much about McClellin but I wonder if players from the Mountain West are a little overated since they play in a weaker conference than, say, the SEC. PFW's draft chart has him as mid 3rd rounder.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Thanks on Smith.  27 is too high.  I think if Konz is still on the board at 27, we can pass on Smith because I think BAL will take him at 29 and BAL is the biggest threat at this point.  We can then allow Smith to get to 31.  Perhaps at that point we can trade back a bit and still land him as the bad teams have other priorities. I'm seeing some mocks having Kirkpatrick making to us at 27.  I would love to get him and Smith with our top 2 picks.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I like Smith at 27, I've heard a number of "experts" say this kid has the football IQ and ability to be a starting safety day 1.  I don't know if that's the case in NE's D but if he can start day one he's would help the biggest need outside OLB.

    Having a productive S along Chung also helps the CBs, they were really hurt from bad S play last season.  I believe this was part of DM sophomore slump (not all but had part to do with it).

    Smith IMO is a 4 down player, can cover, good in run support and can play on STs.  From what I've seen and heard from his interviews he's all about football, will live in the film room and work hard to be the starter.  Maybe not the sexy pick but the one that makes the most sense to me right now.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Hey guys.  Wanted to discuss Shea McClellin for a minute.  I love the guy.  Living in the NW, I've jumped on the BSU bandwagon a bit, and I watch most of their games.  Looks like he could become a very good pro, but I have to wonder whether or not he would really be the smartest pick for NE at 27.  I think he would be a great player to draft mid-second round, but lately it seems like GB is all set to take him at 28 if we don't grab him at 27.  McClellin has gotten a ton of hype the past month or so, and I hate to say it, but his stock might be a bit too high at this point.  I wouldn't be disappointed if we ended up drafting him at 27, as I'm a huge fan of his, but I really believe that there will likely be a better player there when pick 27 rolls around.  We'll see.  Maybe the GB interest is being over-blown too.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Hey guys.  Wanted to discuss Shea McClellin for a minute.  I love the guy.  Living in the NW, I've jumped on the BSU bandwagon a bit, and I watch most of their games.  Looks like he could become a very good pro, but I have to wonder whether or not he would really be the smartest pick for NE at 27.  I think he would be a great player to draft mid-second round, but lately it seems like GB is all set to take him at 28 if we don't grab him at 27.  McClellin has gotten a ton of hype the past month or so, and I hate to say it, but his stock might be a bit too high at this point.  I wouldn't be disappointed if we ended up drafting him at 27, as I'm a huge fan of his, but I really believe that there will likely be a better player there when pick 27 rolls around.  We'll see.  Maybe the GB interest is being over-blown too.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    Waz,

    I see a lot of similarities between McClellin and Brooks Reed in that Reed had a similar meteoric rise from projected Rd 3/4 kid to projected Rd 1 kid as we got closer to draft time.  Reed was being talked about as an option to NE at 28, but wasn't taken until 42.  While I think McClellin is more versatile than Reed, I'm not sold on him as a Rd 1 kid... he was an "alternative" for me at pick 31 in my latest mock, but I have him as a Rd 1-2 kid on my draft board, would prefer him in Rd 2.  Overall, I don't see him getting past NE at 48.

    I'm still holding out hope that they come away with one of Barron/Brockers/Cox/Upshaw/Kirkpatrick/Gilmore in Rd 1, trading up a bit if need be.  Reyes/Smith/Curry/McClellin etc., fall into my next grouping of defenders.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Hey guys.  Wanted to discuss Shea McClellin for a minute.  I love the guy.  Living in the NW, I've jumped on the BSU bandwagon a bit, and I watch most of their games.  Looks like he could become a very good pro, but I have to wonder whether or not he would really be the smartest pick for NE at 27.  I think he would be a great player to draft mid-second round, but lately it seems like GB is all set to take him at 28 if we don't grab him at 27.  McClellin has gotten a ton of hype the past month or so, and I hate to say it, but his stock might be a bit too high at this point.  I wouldn't be disappointed if we ended up drafting him at 27, as I'm a huge fan of his, but I really believe that there will likely be a better player there when pick 27 rolls around.  We'll see.  Maybe the GB interest is being over-blown too.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer

    Probably is Wazzu; there's a lot of misinformation going on out there at this time of year.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    are we running out of gas in the last week?
    i dont see as many ideas being offered and analysis of those ideas, whether ours or those of the pros.

    with our analysis lets keep it friendly and keep any animosities out of it.
    better to acknowledge being in a mood to oneself than to kick the dog or hit the kid.

    lets have a great week and a half before the draft.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Waz, I see a lot of similarities between McClellin and Brooks Reed in that Reed had a similar meteoric rise from projected Rd 3/4 kid to projected Rd 1 kid as we got closer to draft time.  Reed was being talked about as an option to NE at 28, but wasn't taken until 42.  While I think McClellin is more versatile than Reed, I'm not sold on him as a Rd 1 kid... he was an "alternative" for me at pick 31 in my latest mock, but I have him as a Rd 1-2 kid on my draft board, would prefer him in Rd 2.  Overall, I don't see him getting past NE at 48. I'm still holding out hope that they come away with one of Barron/Brockers/Cox/Upshaw/Kirkpatrick/Gilmore in Rd 1, trading up a bit if need be.  Reyes/Smith/Curry/McClellin etc., fall into my next grouping of defenders.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Agree, MB. Brooks Reed is an excellent comparison to McClellin.  I really like both prospects, but both are probably realistically 2nd rounders. If NE got McClellin at 48, that would be ideal, IMO.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Title, I'm no draft expert but just enjoy reading here to be prepared for the draft each year.  I like your mock and players but it seems to me we don't have too many sure openings--we were in the SB and BB has filled in with Free Agents before the draft.  My point is I think many here expect him to trade into next year's draft but I don't know about trading down for more players this year.  That's the only part of your take I question. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    It seems like every year, NE drafts a guy or two in the 2nd/3rd round who have gotten "lost in the shuffle" of the draft process a little bit.  Spikes is a perfect example.  His college production @ UF was mid 1st round worthy, but slow 40 times combined with "character/work ethic questions" caused teams to pass on him and for him to slide to late 2nd.  Sometimes these guys work out great (like Spikes) and sometimes they don't.  Two under-the-radar guys to watch this year, who were at one time considered 1st rounders but who's stock have dropped significantly, are a pair of Cornhuskers.  Alfonzo Dennard & Jared Crick.  Dennard was once thought to be a top 20 lock, but after having a disappointing Senior Bowl week and a mediocre combine it seems that he his stock has slipped to mid 2nd round range.  He could slide as far as #62, and if he is still on the board there, don't be suprised if BB nabs him.  Crick has lost all kinds of momentum after tearing a pectoral this past season, but if his health checks out, he could be another dropping prospect that BB might take a chance on in the mid-rounds of the draft.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Here is my second attempt at a Pats mock.  Let me know what you think. #27 TRADED to Indianapolis for #34, #97, and #208 Indianapolis jumps San Fran and the Giants to take Andrew Luck's college teammate and favorite target in Coby Fleener.  The Pats get some more depth for later in the Draft. #31 Harrison Smith-S-Notre Dame Smith is the 2nd best safety in the draft, and there is a significant dropoff after him.  He is a smart, dedicated football player, and seems to be the Patriots type of player.  He can line up at both FS and SS, meaning he has the versatility BB likes in his players.  The Patriots need a safety, and Harrison Smith seems to be the best choice they can realistically make to fill the hole. He should contend for playing time from Day One. #34 Shea McClellin-DE/OLB/ILB-Boise State He's hard working, smart, and versatile, all traits that BB craves in his players. McClellin is a strong pass rusher who should come in and improve the team's pass rush from Day One.  The Pats will undoubtedly play him all over the field, and such versatility will increase his chances of making an impact on day one. This guy's motor never stops running, and we cannot let him slip out of our hands like we did with players such as Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, and Clay Matthews. #48 Derek Wolfe-DE/DT-Cincinnati A very strong pass rusher, Wolfe is also fairly stout against the run.  He has very good size and a strong motor.  He has played all across the line, meaning he has the versatility that BB likes.  This might be a little high for Wolfe, but BB has been known to grab his guys early in the process, besides, Wolfe is a solid Round 2-3 prospect anyways.  Wolfe should be a contributor on the NE D-Line early on next season. #62 TRADED to Washington for #69 and #141 Washington trades a couple later picks to jump back into the 2nd round after losing the pick in the RGIII Deal. #69 Chase Minnefield-CB-Virginia Has the NFL bloodlines that the Pats love.  Minnefield was viewed as a 1st round talent in the pre-season, but saw his numbers decline due to teams throwing away from him.  He slipped a little due to a somewhat short combine measurement, and a recent knee surgery.  Still, he represents very good value at this point in the draft. #93 TRADED for 2013 2nd Some team will do it. #97 Chris Rainey-HB/WR/KR/PR-Florida Has explosive speed and has tremendous versatility on offense.  While he is too small to be an every down back in the NFL, that is not the role he would play with the Pats.  He can be an explosive returner, and could be a very nice weapon on the offense.  Plus, we all know how much BB loves the Florida kids. #126 TRADED to Philly for #153 and #196 Pats and Eagles have to keep up the streak, and Philly has an abundance of late round picks.  They package them to move up, and BB picks up his coveted late round picks. #141 Audie Cole-ILB-North Carolina State The Pats pick up some depth at LB.  Audie Cole has good size for an ILB in New England's system, and at this point, more depth cannot hurt. #153 Greg Childs-WR-Arkansas He's coming off an injury riddled season, but the athletisism is there.  With so few needs, the Pats can afford to take a chance on a 6-3 receiver who runs a 4.39. #196 David Molk-C-Michigan They draft a late round depth prospect for some depth at the Center position. They re-signed Koppen so this isn't a burning issue. #208 Joe Long-OT-Wayne State Jake Long's brother.  At this point, the Pats add to their stable of Offensive Linemen.  There isn't much more they need to do.
    Posted by titletownfan

    That would be some kind of draft, you've manipulated the board as artfully as BB.

    I actually don't think we'll draft more than 5-6 players this year.  We're pretty loaded already.  Its tough for me to see where we can fit more than 5 guys.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Alright my good fellows. With a week and half until the draft I think it might be time to break down the positions and determine what could have room to add players through the draft.

    Offense:

    TE - Gronk, Hern, Fells: The Pats run a 2 TE set which means you typically want 3 starting caliber TE's to run the offense. Gronk and Fells certainly fill the prototypical TE role while Hern plays more of a H-Back type of role. They could still add an additional TE and move Hern to a RB/WR role but I don't see that happening given the other acquisitions this off-season. Diagnosis, all set in the TE position

    WR - Welker, Lloyd, Gonz, Branch, Stallworth, Slater, Edelman, Ocho: They made a lot of moves this off-season. Slater is an obvious #6 WR for ST with Lloyd and Welker making the team. This year they can go 7 WR's if they only carry 4 RB's instead of 5 or they can stick with their typical 6 WR's. I still have a gut feeling giving the age and question marks of the acquisitions this year they will get a WR late day 2 early day 3. It might be a STer who will primarily be a return man but I can see it happenings. One person I've been high on as a return man (Rainey), might be an ideal conversion type from RB to slot WR long term. He's about Welker size with good hands and is deadly with space. He might be a shocker convert WR none of us expected. Diagnosis 1 WR drafted

    RB - Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Larsen, Fiametta: I might be in the minority here but I see the acquisition of a blocking FB as a sign that they will put their faith in the young guys. That the extra lead blocker is meant to give them a little more support that vets don't typically need. With Hern as a 5th RB I don't see them going after a RB persay in this draft unless it's as a returner or can work out of the slot. Rainey could be that kid providing additional depth as a 6th RB, 5/7th WR, and primary return man while only taking up 1 spot. Diagnosis, all set at RB position

    OL - Mankins, Light, Waters, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Koppen, Connolly, Wendell, McDanold, Gallery, Thomas: Typically the Pats only travel with 8-9 OL and 1-2 in reserve, that doesn't leave much room to add players given who they currently have, even if Light retires. How I see it breaking down is T's - Solder/Vollmer, T/G's - Cannon/Gallery, G's - Waters/Mankins, G/C - McDonald, C's Connolly/Koppen traveling with Thomas in reserve and Wendell if he can make it to PS. Diagnosis, all set on OL

    QB - Brady, Mallett, Hoyer: They will carry 3 if need be but I also see them trying to trade Hoyer on draft day (KC, Browns?). Diagnosis, all set at QB

    So on O I can see 1 possible draft pick spent, mainly for a return man that adds flexibility depth or can be a long term starter on O. I'm really starting to convince myself Rainey is that man. He is a quality return man that can add depth to the RB core without taking an additional spot on the roster and has the potential to develop into a speedy slot WR with good burst and great vision in the open field

    Defense:

    DB - McCourty, Arrington, Ras, Brown, Chung, Gregory, Moore, Williams, Allen, Cole: I grouped them all together because depending on how they feel about McCourty will determine how they might approach the draft. If they view McCourty as a CB then the CB core might be alright without drafting an additional player but the S core will need some help, if they view McCourty as a FS then they might not need to draft a S but will need to find a replacement for the CB core. Diagnosis they will draft 1-2 DB's in the draft

    LB - Mayo, Fletcher, Tarp, Nin, Niko, Cunningham, Spikes, White, Carter, Carpenter, Scott: It's a lot of names but not many starters. The ILB looks solid without the addition of another body but there still is a hole on the edge rushing position. Diagnosis, at least 1 edge rusher

    DL - Wilfork, Pryor, Deadrick, Love, Brace, Fenena, Silvestro, Harrison: Other then Wilfork all the other players will need to prove they can handle a full time starting job. Deadrick, Love, Brace to me all look like backups and rotational type of players with Fenena being a possibility to be a full time starter. They need to get some consistency in their pass rush and help with the run up the middle. I expect Carter to be back but it's still unsure what he can provide. Diagnosis, at least 1 interior DL

    So, given the current roster I see us targeting at least 1 return man (WR or RB/WR), 1-2 DB's, 1 edge rushing LB, and 1 interior DL. That's 4-5picks with 6 picks in hand. Of course BB will trade and we'll most likely end up with more then 6 picks total but I also see them dbling up at a couple positions on the D side (namely in the front 7) But given so few major holes on the team right now I can also envision them actually making some moves up to get players they really want 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    It seems like every year, NE drafts a guy or two in the 2nd/3rd round who have gotten "lost in the shuffle" of the draft process a little bit.  Spikes is a perfect example.  His college production @ UF was mid 1st round worthy, but slow 40 times combined with "character/work ethic questions" caused teams to pass on him and for him to slide to late 2nd.  Sometimes these guys work out great (like Spikes) and sometimes they don't.  Two under-the-radar guys to watch this year, who were at one time considered 1st rounders but who's stock have dropped significantly, are a pair of Cornhuskers.  Alfonzo Dennard & Jared Crick.  Dennard was once thought to be a top 20 lock, but after having a disappointing Senior Bowl week and a mediocre combine it seems that he his stock has slipped to mid 2nd round range.  He could slide as far as #62, and if he is still on the board there, don't be suprised if BB nabs him.  Crick has lost all kinds of momentum after tearing a pectoral this past season, but if his health checks out, he could be another dropping prospect that BB might take a chance on in the mid-rounds of the draft.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    Waz,
    I like the topic, they "lost in the shuffle" guy that may be dropping for one reason or another, that interests me the most is South Carolina WR Alshon Jeffery.  This kid has the size and skill set to create a ton of matchup issues at the NFL level and was highly productive at the SEC level despite average to below average QB play.

    I think Dennard is a good name, based on where he's no projected vs. how he was viewed earlier in the process.

    Crick is a kid I like, blue collar, big motor etc., I just think he's a 43 kid only as I don't see where he fits into NE's 34 front based on his weight (279 combine, 276 Pro Day).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Alright my good fellows. With a week and half until the draft I think it might be time to break down the positions and determine what could have room to add players through the draft. Offense: TE - Gronk, Hern, Fells: The Pats run a 2 TE set which means you typically want 3 starting caliber TE's to run the offense. Gronk and Fells certainly fill the prototypical TE role while Hern plays more of a H-Back type of role. They could still add an additional TE and move Hern to a RB/WR role but I don't see that happening given the other acquisitions this off-season. Diagnosis, all set in the TE position WR - Welker, Lloyd, Gonz, Branch, Stallworth, Slater, Edelman, Ocho: They made a lot of moves this off-season. Slater is an obvious #6 WR for ST with Lloyd and Welker making the team. This year they can go 7 WR's if they only carry 4 RB's instead of 5 or they can stick with their typical 6 WR's. I still have a gut feeling giving the age and question marks of the acquisitions this year they will get a WR late day 2 early day 3. It might be a STer who will primarily be a return man but I can see it happenings. One person I've been high on as a return man (Rainey), might be an ideal conversion type from RB to slot WR long term. He's about Welker size with good hands and is deadly with space. He might be a shocker convert WR none of us expected. Diagnosis 1 WR drafted RB - Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Larsen, Fiametta: I might be in the minority here but I see the acquisition of a blocking FB as a sign that they will put their faith in the young guys. That the extra lead blocker is meant to give them a little more support that vets don't typically need. With Hern as a 5th RB I don't see them going after a RB persay in this draft unless it's as a returner or can work out of the slot. Rainey could be that kid providing additional depth as a 6th RB, 5/7th WR, and primary return man while only taking up 1 spot. Diagnosis, all set at RB position OL - Mankins, Light, Waters, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Koppen, Connolly, Wendell, McDanold, Gallery, Thomas: Typically the Pats only travel with 8-9 OL and 1-2 in reserve, that doesn't leave much room to add players given who they currently have, even if Light retires. How I see it breaking down is T's - Solder/Vollmer, T/G's - Cannon/Gallery, G's - Waters/Mankins, G/C - McDonald, C's Connolly/Koppen traveling with Thomas in reserve and Wendell if he can make it to PS. Diagnosis, all set on OL QB - Brady, Mallett, Hoyer: They will carry 3 if need be but I also see them trying to trade Hoyer on draft day (KC, Browns?). Diagnosis, all set at QB So on O I can see 1 possible draft pick spent, mainly for a return man that adds flexibility depth or can be a long term starter on O. I'm really starting to convince myself Rainey is that man. He is a quality return man that can add depth to the RB core without taking an additional spot on the roster and has the potential to develop into a speedy slot WR with good burst and great vision in the open field Defense: DB - McCourty, Arrington, Ras, Brown, Chung, Gregory, Moore, Williams, Allen, Cole: I grouped them all together because depending on how they feel about McCourty will determine how they might approach the draft. If they view McCourty as a CB then the CB core might be alright without drafting an additional player but the S core will need some help, if they view McCourty as a FS then they might not need to draft a S but will need to find a replacement for the CB core. Diagnosis they will draft 1-2 DB's in the draft LB - Mayo, Fletcher, Tarp, Nin, Niko, Cunningham, Spikes, White, Carter, Carpenter, Scott: It's a lot of names but not many starters. The ILB looks solid without the addition of another body but there still is a hole on the edge rushing position. Diagnosis, at least 1 edge rusher DL - Wilfork, Pryor, Deadrick, Love, Brace, Fenena, Silvestro, Harrison: Other then Wilfork all the other players will need to prove they can handle a full time starting job. Deadrick, Love, Brace to me all look like backups and rotational type of players with Fenena being a possibility to be a full time starter. They need to get some consistency in their pass rush and help with the run up the middle. I expect Carter to be back but it's still unsure what he can provide. Diagnosis, at least 1 interior DL So, given the current roster I see us targeting at least 1 return man (WR or RB/WR), 1-2 DB's, 1 edge rushing LB, and 1 interior DL. That's 4-5picks with 6 picks in hand. Of course BB will trade and we'll most likely end up with more then 6 picks total but I also see them dbling up at a couple positions on the D side (namely in the front 7) But given so few major holes on the team right now I can also envision them actually making some moves up to get players they really want 
    Posted by PatsEng


    Alright my good fellows. With a week and half until the draft I think it might be time to break down the positions and determine what could have room to add players through the draft.

    Good topic, PE.

    Offense:

    TE - Gronk, Hern, Fells: The Pats run a 2 TE set which means you typically want 3 starting caliber TE's to run the offense. Gronk and Fells certainly fill the prototypical TE role while Hern plays more of a H-Back type of role. They could still add an additional TE and move Hern to a RB/WR role but I don't see that happening given the other acquisitions this off-season. Diagnosis, all set in the TE position

    Agree.

    WR - Welker, Lloyd, Gonz, Branch, Stallworth, Slater, Edelman, Ocho: They made a lot of moves this off-season. Slater is an obvious #6 WR for ST with Lloyd and Welker making the team. This year they can go 7 WR's if they only carry 4 RB's instead of 5 or they can stick with their typical 6 WR's. I still have a gut feeling giving the age and question marks of the acquisitions this year they will get a WR late day 2 early day 3. It might be a STer who will primarily be a return man but I can see it happenings. One person I've been high on as a return man (Rainey), might be an ideal conversion type from RB to slot WR long term. He's about Welker size with good hands and is deadly with space. He might be a shocker convert WR none of us expected. Diagnosis 1 WR drafted

    Agree.

    RB - Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Larsen, Fiametta: I might be in the minority here but I see the acquisition of a blocking FB as a sign that they will put their faith in the young guys. That the extra lead blocker is meant to give them a little more support that vets don't typically need. With Hern as a 5th RB I don't see them going after a RB persay in this draft unless it's as a returner or can work out of the slot. Rainey could be that kid providing additional depth as a 6th RB, 5/7th WR, and primary return man while only taking up 1 spot. Diagnosis, all set at RB position

    I’m not as optimistic; think they have room for another veteran RB, preferably one with some size to compliment Ridley.  As far as a RB in the draft goes, I love Doug Martin, but think they could pass on the position on Day 1-2.


    OL - Mankins, Light, Waters, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Koppen, Connolly, Wendell, McDanold, Gallery, Thomas: Typically the Pats only travel with 8-9 OL and 1-2 in reserve, that doesn't leave much room to add players given who they currently have, even if Light retires. How I see it breaking down is T's - Solder/Vollmer, T/G's - Cannon/Gallery, G's - Waters/Mankins, G/C - McDonald, C's Connolly/Koppen traveling with Thomas in reserve and Wendell if he can make it to PS. Diagnosis, all set on OL

    The (2) keys here IMO are; What happens with Light and do they view Cannon as more of a OT or OG?  Assuming Light retires and they choose to keep Cannon at OT, I think there’s room to upgrade the OG position behind Waters etc.

    QB - Brady, Mallett, Hoyer: They will carry 3 if need be but I also see them trying to trade Hoyer on draft day (KC, Browns?). Diagnosis, all set at QB

    Agree.



    Defense:

    DB - McCourty, Arrington, Ras, Brown, Chung, Gregory, Moore, Williams, Allen, Cole: I grouped them all together because depending on how they feel about McCourty will determine how they might approach the draft. If they view McCourty as a CB then the CB core might be alright without drafting an additional player but the S core will need some help, if they view McCourty as a FS then they might not need to draft a S but will need to find a replacement for the CB core. Diagnosis they will draft 1-2 DB's in the draft
    Agree.

    LB - Mayo, Fletcher, Tarp, Nin, Niko, Cunningham, Spikes, White, Carter, Carpenter, Scott: It's a lot of names but not many starters. The ILB looks solid without the addition of another body but there still is a hole on the edge rushing position. Diagnosis, at least 1 edge rusher

    Agree.  I think they have 3 solid ILB’s (Mayo/Spikes/Fletcher) and while I think they could add some more depth, it’s not a necessity.

    DL - Wilfork, Pryor, Deadrick, Love, Brace, Fenena, Silvestro, Harrison: Other then Wilfork all the other players will need to prove they can handle a full time starting job. Deadrick, Love, Brace to me all look like backups and rotational type of players with Fenena being a possibility to be a full time starter. They need to get some consistency in their pass rush and help with the run up the middle. I expect Carter to be back but it's still unsure what he can provide. Diagnosis, at least 1 interior DL


    Agree.


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Hey MB,

    Thanks for the feed back.

    With regards to the OL. I do feel they see Cannon as a longer term T then G but that could change if Vollmers back heals completely. Either way I see Cannon as an eventual starter somewhere on the line (whether at G or T). As for the G position they brought Gallery in as an additional option for this year, they are also apparently high on McDonald and even Wendell got a couple of starts and performed well. With Koppen back I can see them kicking Connolly to G in an emergency so I don't see the need this year. I think they have built up great depth through versatile lineman this year (Cannon, Gallery, Wendell, McDonald, Connolly). Now that said I can see them going after a project G on day 3 but I can't see them going early on one. More then likely I see them going after a UDFA that can be groomed on the PS this year and moved into a rotational sub role next year.

    With regards to RB. Yeah I thought they might grab a vet too, but with the FB pickups it's leading me to believe they might go a heavier set and let the younger legs work behind a blocker. Both Vereen and Ridley have shown good vision (when they were on the field) and both can make quick cuts depending on blockers so I can actually see more I formations and using the FB as that larger vet role that you talked about. The biggest thing I look at is that if you bring in a vet you are either going to get a third rate vet who doesn't mind sharing reps with 3 other players (Vereen, Woodhead, Ridley) or your going to hinder you younger guys by giving larger amounts of reps to an aging vet who will demand a large role to sign. Lets face it, any load carrying RB won't want to come to a team to split carries between 3 other backs and if you are looking at day 3 for a RB then is it really better then what you already have?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Alright my good fellows. With a week and half until the draft I think it might be time to break down the positions and determine what could have room to add players through the draft. Offense: TE - Gronk, Hern, Fells: The Pats run a 2 TE set which means you typically want 3 starting caliber TE's to run the offense. Gronk and Fells certainly fill the prototypical TE role while Hern plays more of a H-Back type of role. They could still add an additional TE and move Hern to a RB/WR role but I don't see that happening given the other acquisitions this off-season. Diagnosis, all set in the TE position WR - Welker, Lloyd, Gonz, Branch, Stallworth, Slater, Edelman, Ocho: They made a lot of moves this off-season. Slater is an obvious #6 WR for ST with Lloyd and Welker making the team. This year they can go 7 WR's if they only carry 4 RB's instead of 5 or they can stick with their typical 6 WR's. I still have a gut feeling giving the age and question marks of the acquisitions this year they will get a WR late day 2 early day 3. It might be a STer who will primarily be a return man but I can see it happenings. One person I've been high on as a return man (Rainey), might be an ideal conversion type from RB to slot WR long term. He's about Welker size with good hands and is deadly with space. He might be a shocker convert WR none of us expected. Diagnosis 1 WR drafted RB - Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Larsen, Fiametta: I might be in the minority here but I see the acquisition of a blocking FB as a sign that they will put their faith in the young guys. That the extra lead blocker is meant to give them a little more support that vets don't typically need. With Hern as a 5th RB I don't see them going after a RB persay in this draft unless it's as a returner or can work out of the slot. Rainey could be that kid providing additional depth as a 6th RB, 5/7th WR, and primary return man while only taking up 1 spot. Diagnosis, all set at RB position OL - Mankins, Light, Waters, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Koppen, Connolly, Wendell, McDanold, Gallery, Thomas: Typically the Pats only travel with 8-9 OL and 1-2 in reserve, that doesn't leave much room to add players given who they currently have, even if Light retires. How I see it breaking down is T's - Solder/Vollmer, T/G's - Cannon/Gallery, G's - Waters/Mankins, G/C - McDonald, C's Connolly/Koppen traveling with Thomas in reserve and Wendell if he can make it to PS. Diagnosis, all set on OL QB - Brady, Mallett, Hoyer: They will carry 3 if need be but I also see them trying to trade Hoyer on draft day (KC, Browns?). Diagnosis, all set at QB So on O I can see 1 possible draft pick spent, mainly for a return man that adds flexibility depth or can be a long term starter on O. I'm really starting to convince myself Rainey is that man. He is a quality return man that can add depth to the RB core without taking an additional spot on the roster and has the potential to develop into a speedy slot WR with good burst and great vision in the open field Defense: DB - McCourty, Arrington, Ras, Brown, Chung, Gregory, Moore, Williams, Allen, Cole: I grouped them all together because depending on how they feel about McCourty will determine how they might approach the draft. If they view McCourty as a CB then the CB core might be alright without drafting an additional player but the S core will need some help, if they view McCourty as a FS then they might not need to draft a S but will need to find a replacement for the CB core. Diagnosis they will draft 1-2 DB's in the draft LB - Mayo, Fletcher, Tarp, Nin, Niko, Cunningham, Spikes, White, Carter, Carpenter, Scott: It's a lot of names but not many starters. The ILB looks solid without the addition of another body but there still is a hole on the edge rushing position. Diagnosis, at least 1 edge rusher DL - Wilfork, Pryor, Deadrick, Love, Brace, Fenena, Silvestro, Harrison: Other then Wilfork all the other players will need to prove they can handle a full time starting job. Deadrick, Love, Brace to me all look like backups and rotational type of players with Fenena being a possibility to be a full time starter. They need to get some consistency in their pass rush and help with the run up the middle. I expect Carter to be back but it's still unsure what he can provide. Diagnosis, at least 1 interior DL So, given the current roster I see us targeting at least 1 return man (WR or RB/WR), 1-2 DB's, 1 edge rushing LB, and 1 interior DL. That's 4-5picks with 6 picks in hand. Of course BB will trade and we'll most likely end up with more then 6 picks total but I also see them dbling up at a couple positions on the D side (namely in the front 7) But given so few major holes on the team right now I can also envision them actually making some moves up to get players they really want 
    Posted by PatsEng


    Timely and excellent post PatsEng. 

    I agree with 99% of what you have here. 

    At the WR position, given Welker's situation is fluid, and the lack of a proven product on the roster outside of Welker and Branch and to a degree Stallworth, I might look to take a WR earlier if one slips like MB indicated in Alshon Jeffrey. If this kid is still hanging around end of round 2, he would be my pick at 62. This would be an excellent value pick at a position we need to develop, and there is no knowing how the various WR acquisitions will perform this year. 

    Outside of WR, if we have 4-5 spots on the roster to fill, I would like to see them made on the defense. I think doubling up on the DL, possibly LB or CB/S. All the guys you mention on the DL less Wilfork, Fanene (not including Carter) are depth players. 2 DL (One 4-3 DE/DT, and One 3-4 DE/DT) would seem to fit the bill. Wolfe & Martin, Still & Thompson, Wolfe & Winn, etc. I think there are any number of combinations depending upon who is on the board & who the Pats value most at a given spot. 

    I would love to land Gilmore or another top rated CB at the end of round 1 at 27 if possible. If not, and we decide to keep McCourty at CB, I would prefer we wait until round 2 and grab Brandon Taylor (S) from LSU over Harrison Smith. Sorry MB..didn't mean to diss your ND kid, I like him, but I think Taylor, based on where he can be had, presents better value & a similar skill set. I also think Taylor is flying a bit under the radar right now.


    1a. Gilmore / Still 
    2a. Still / Wolfe
    2b. Curry / Jeffrey 
    2c. Jeffrey / Taylor
    3a. Martin / Winn / Crick 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I'm not fond of either Smith or Taylor at this point. Both are good players but both (like Chung) and hybrid SS/FS players. Personally given this league is turning into a pass happy league I'm looking for more of a FS/CB combo. Almost having 3 CB's on the field at all times. Just one that might not be as fluid but is stronger and a little bigger to play the field. Barron might be that type of player but I don't see him making out of the top 20. I'm looking more at conversion types of DB's at this point. Dennard, Iloka, T Johnson, Fletcher, Bethel.

    On an unrelated note couple things I've been hearing.

    Car wants out of the #9 pick. Given if Ingram was available at that point would you trade #27 and #63 and maybe a 4th or 5th next year to move up and grab Ingram?

    Chi apparently loves Brockers at #19, so that's where his train might stop. Would it be worth trading up to the top 18 to grab Brockers before Chi gets a chance at him? or is it not worth the risk and hold back for Reyes at #27/31 or Wolfe/Martin in the 2nd?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!


    Definitely open and like the idea of drafting a bigger corner to play in the safety spot. This is why I was high on Gillmore. I think Denard could be that guy as well, same with Trumain Johnson. 

    If Carolina was willing to trade us #9, I would have to seriously think about who I would take in that spot, or who is worthy there. I like Ingram, but do we want someone with more length? What about Brockers? is this too high for him? 
    I think Ingram would fill the OLB pass rushing threat we need and have needed badly. Question is, how much better is he than say Perry or Curry or others that can be had at the bottom of the round or in round 2?


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Timely and excellent post PatsEng.  I agree with 99% of what you have here.  At the WR position, given Welker's situation is fluid, and the lack of a proven product on the roster outside of Welker and Branch and to a degree Stallworth, I might look to take a WR earlier if one slips like MB indicated in Alshon Jeffrey. If this kid is still hanging around end of round 2, he would be my pick at 62. This would be an excellent value pick at a position we need to develop, and there is no knowing how the various WR acquisitions will perform this year.  Outside of WR, if we have 4-5 spots on the roster to fill, I would like to see them made on the defense. I think doubling up on the DL, possibly LB or CB/S. All the guys you mention on the DL less Wilfork, Fanene (not including Carter) are depth players. 2 DL (One 4-3 DE/DT, and One 3-4 DE/DT) would seem to fit the bill. Wolfe & Martin, Still & Thompson, Wolfe & Winn, etc. I think there are any number of combinations depending upon who is on the board & who the Pats value most at a given spot.  I would love to land Gilmore or another top rated CB at the end of round 1 at 27 if possible. If not, and we decide to keep McCourty at CB, I would prefer we wait until round 2 and grab Brandon Taylor (S) from LSU over Harrison Smith. Sorry MB..didn't mean to diss your ND kid, I like him, but I think Taylor, based on where he can be had, presents better value & a similar skill set. I also think Taylor is flying a bit under the radar right now. 1a. Gilmore / Still  2a. Still / Wolfe 2b. Curry / Jeffrey  2c. Jeffrey / Taylor 3a. Martin / Winn / Crick 
    Posted by PatsLifer


    PL,
    I'm not at all opposed to Taylor, have moved him up to Rd 4 on my board, could see him as an option in Rd 3 come draft day but I think Rd 2 is too high for him at this point.  If they miss out on Barron/Smith, I'd love to see Taylor late on Day 2 or early on Day 3.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Any chance that David DeCastro makes it to 27? He is by far my favorite prospect in the draft and even though OL is not the Pats #1 need positionally, it is the most important position organizationally. Keeping Brady upright and the offense functional is key to winning and the offensive line has many question marks despite performing so well last year. Solder-concussions, Vollmer-back, Light-retirement, Waters-retirement, Mankins-injury, Koppen-injury, Cannon-injury/inexperience/position?, etc etc. DeCastro was the most noticeable Stanford Cardinal on the field this year and I would love to see him available at 27.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Some humor for this thread, a backwards mock draft!

    Boy I would do anything for this draft to be real...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Any chance that David DeCastro makes it to 27? He is by far my favorite prospect in the draft and even though OL is not the Pats #1 need positionally, it is the most important position organizationally. Keeping Brady upright and the offense functional is key to winning and the offensive line has many question marks despite performing so well last year. Solder-concussions, Vollmer-back, Light-retirement, Waters-retirement, Mankins-injury, Koppen-injury, Cannon-injury/inexperience/position?, etc etc. DeCastro was the most noticeable Stanford Cardinal on the field this year and I would love to see him available at 27.
    Posted by TitleTown11

    Sorry, but DeCastro is a top 15 pick. Given Bengals, Steelers, Browns, Ten all could use top end OL there is no chance DeCastro makes it within 5 picks of us. I also wouldn't say Solder has concussion issues. 1 minor grade concussion doesn't constatute a trend yet. Mankins has also been very durable during his career and even played through injury this year so not sure if you'd call him injury prone. Connolly has been the starting C for almost 2 years now (with Koppens injures)

    So I don't think the OL is as bad as you think, actually with Cannon, Wendell, Thomas, Gallery, and McDonald they have versatile and deep depth along all positions.

     
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