***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    I keep tabs (probably as most of you do), on the various mock draft sites. Found this one on Walterfootball...I found it interesting, but also interesting in terms of who the Pats selected at 27.  " No one really knows what Bill Belichick plans on doing with his two first-round picks, but a well-informed source told us the  Patriots will draft with the 27th pick and trade the 31st selection . " Pats 27th Pick - Shea McClellin IF the Pats do keep 31, that pick would be Harrison Smith.  Thoughts?
    Posted by PatsLifer


    My initial thought was, there are no "well-informed source(s)" around the NE program... BB lets the media know what he wants it to know.

    At the same time, both names make plenty of sense. 
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : My initial thought was, there are no "well-informed source(s)" around the NE program... BB lets the media know what he wants it to know. At the same time, both names make plenty of sense. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I agree. I don't those decisions get made until BB sees how the draft plays itself out...or in almost real-time. I don't know how anyone can go into the draft and say, "We'll trade pick 31". You might have that general feeling based on how the talent is stack ranked, but if anyone slips based on how the draft plays out, I bet BB would use pick 31. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!


    Back to the Walterfootball latest mock...What I really loved about that mock is the Jets taking Chandler Jones middle of round 1. I for one am not as high as some on Jones, and think he has Gholston written all over him, less the big school name. Would love if the Jets took him instead of Upshaw, Barron, etc. 
     
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    BTW...I would love if Upshaw slipped all the way to 27 for us. He would be my pick no questions asked. I would play him both inside and out. We could use him inside with Spikes on running downs, kick Mayo outside, or use him outside on passing downs, kick Mayo inside. I like Upshaw used all over the place. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    I keep tabs (probably as most of you do), on the various mock draft sites. Found this one on Walterfootball...I found it interesting, but also interesting in terms of who the Pats selected at 27.  " No one really knows what Bill Belichick plans on doing with his two first-round picks, but a well-informed source told us the  Patriots will draft with the 27th pick and trade the 31st selection . " Pats 27th Pick - Shea McClellin IF the Pats do keep 31, that pick would be Harrison Smith.  Thoughts?
    Posted by PatsLifer

    And by well informed source they mean me. Seriously anyone that has followed the Pats knows if they have 2 1st round picks they tend to use 1 (typically not theirs) and trade the other (typically theirs). So it would not shock anyone if they did

     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    BTW...I would love if Upshaw slipped all the way to 27 for us. He would be my pick no questions asked. I would play him both inside and out. We could use him inside with Spikes on running downs, kick Mayo outside, or use him outside on passing downs, kick Mayo inside. I like Upshaw used all over the place. 
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I see Hightower as having the same versatility... think he has very good upside as an edge rusher.

    What I like about both players is that they've already proven the ability to produce in a BB style 34 defense, etc... would have a much shorter learning curve than most other potential edge players in this class.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Talk about a complete smoke. Oh all the years I've followed the Pats I've never seen them toss up a smoke screen like this:

    "CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft.
    The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise."

    Could this mean they are actually trying to move up, and if so for who? I don't think it's for Barron, makes to much sense. They have a big need at the coverage S position and Barron is the best S in the draft. Also this info getting leaked a week before the draft? So my guess is that they either want a team to take Barron and let another player drop, or they are moving up and are targeting a different player but don't want to reveal who that player is. If it's the player my guess would be either Ingram or Brockers. If it's a team then it has to be either Dal or NYJ. But who would those teams target that the Pats want to drop? Brockers, Upshaw, Perry?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    I have one more mock I will be doing, with trades before Thursday.  This is a no trade 2 round mock.   Pick Team Position Player 1 Indianapolis QB Andrew Luck 2 Washington (StL) QB Robert Griffin III 3 Minnesota OT Matt Kalil 4 Cleveland RB Trent Richardson 5 Tampa Bay CB Morris Claiborne 6 St. Louis (Was) WR Justin Blockmon 7 Jacksonville WR Michael Floyd 8 Miami OLB Melvin Ingram 9 Carolina CB Stephon Gilmore 10 Buffalo OT Riley Reiff 11 Kansas City MLB Luke Kuechly 12 Seattle DE Quinton Couples 13 Arizona OLB Courtney Upshaw 14 Dallas S Mark Barron 15 Philadelphia DE/DT Fletcher Cox 16 New York Jets OG David DeCastro 17 Cincinnati (Oak) CB Dre Kirkpatrick 18 San Diego OG/OT Cordy Glenn 19 Chicago DE Nick Perry 20 Tennessee DT Dontari Poe 21 Cincinnati DE Andre Branch 22 Cleveland (Atl) QB Ryan Tannehill 23 Detroit CB Janoris Jenkins 24 Pittsburgh OT Jonathan Martin 25 Denver DT Michael Brockers 26 Houston WR Kendall Wright 27 New England (NO) DE/DT Kendall Reyes 28 Green Bay OLB Shea McClellin 29 Baltimore ILB Donta Hightower 30 San Francisco OG/OC Peter Konz 31 New England DE/DT Devon Still 32 New York Giants RB Doug Martin 33 St. Louis OT Mike Adams 34 Indianapolis TE Cody Fleener 35 Minnesota WR Stephen Hill 36 Tampa Bay OLB Zack Brown 37 Cleveland WR Rueben Randle 38 Jacksonville DE Whitney Mercilus 39 St. Louis (Was) OG Kevin Zeitler 40 Carolina WR Mohammed Sanu 41 Buffalo TE Dwayne Allen 42 Miami QB Brock Osweiler 43 Seattle DT Jerel Worthy 44 Kansas City OLB  Vinny Curry 45 Dallas S Harrison Smith 46 Philadelphia OLB Lavonte David 47 New York Jets WR Alshon Jeffery 48 New England (Oak) OLB/DE Chandler Jones 49 San Diego DE/DT Billy Winn 50 Chicago OT Bobby Massie 51 Philadelphia (Arz) S George Iloka 52 Tennessee CB Josh Robinson 53 Cincinnati WR Chris Givens 54 Detroit OT Kelechi Osemele 55 Atlanta OG Amini Silatolu 56 Pittsburgh NT Alameda Ta'amu 57 Denver RB Lamar Miller 58 Houston NT Josh Chapman   NO Forfeited     59 Green Bay CB Jayron Hosley 60 Baltimore WR Juron Criner 61 San Francisco DT Brandon Thompson 62 New England CB/S Trumaine Johnson 63 New York Giants TE Orson Charles         93 New England RB Robert Turbin 126 New England WR Marvin Jones
    Posted by Pats7393


    like the turbin and jones picks
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Talk about a complete smoke. Oh all the years I've followed the Pats I've never seen them toss up a smoke screen like this: " CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft. The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise." Could this mean they are actually trying to move up, and if so for who? I don't think it's for Barron, makes to much sense. They have a big need at the coverage S position and Barron is the best S in the draft. Also this info getting leaked a week before the draft? So my guess is that they either want a team to take Barron and let another player drop, or they are moving up and are targeting a different player but don't want to reveal who that player is. If it's the player my guess would be either Ingram or Brockers. If it's a team then it has to be either Dal or NYJ. But who would those teams target that the Pats want to drop? Brockers, Upshaw, Perry?
    Posted by PatsEng

    given this scenario, id guess they are looking to move up for brockers

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Talk about a complete smoke. Oh all the years I've followed the Pats I've never seen them toss up a smoke screen like this: " CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft. The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise." Could this mean they are actually trying to move up, and if so for who? I don't think it's for Barron, makes to much sense. They have a big need at the coverage S position and Barron is the best S in the draft. Also this info getting leaked a week before the draft? So my guess is that they either want a team to take Barron and let another player drop, or they are moving up and are targeting a different player but don't want to reveal who that player is. If it's the player my guess would be either Ingram or Brockers. If it's a team then it has to be either Dal or NYJ. But who would those teams target that the Pats want to drop? Brockers, Upshaw, Perry?
    Posted by PatsEng


    I'm not sure any smoke screen could top 2010 w/Tebow.

    If they DID want to trade up and that player wasn't Barron, I'd still hope it was from the Cox/Brockers/Upshaw/Kirkpatrick/Ingram/Hightower grouping.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I'm not sure any smoke screen could top 2010 w/Tebow. If they DID want to trade up and that player wasn't Barron, I'd still hope it was from the Cox/Brockers/Upshaw/Kirkpatrick/Ingram/Hightower grouping.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    Tebow was a good smoke screen, but I think most people saw through it. At least a large number of people on this board. Tebow just didn't make sense to the Pats. It almost became comical the way experts were trying to figure out positions for him to play with the Pats. That's what makes Barron a so much better one (if true). Because, he does fill a big need on the team and is the best at his position in the draft. It makes a lot of sense for the Pats. To much sense

    With Cox, I still don't see why people are so in love with him. Honestly when I watch game film he gets washed out of the play way to often against dbl teams and I don't always see the largest motor. I actually see a lot of similarities between Reyes and Cox, though Cox has more talent Reyes has the larger motor and I have seen him anchor against dbl teams. Cox to me would fit best on a team that has a line who already has DL that other teams dbl. A DL where he can be left 1v1. If the Pats had a Seymour type of RDE Cox would make a great LDE but since they don't I don't see him being the best fit on the team right now. I'd much rather have Brockers. Heck I see more in Wolfe then Cox truthfully and think Wolfe could develop into an excellent LDE. 

    Right now my ideal draft would be to grab Brockers, Wolfe, Curry/Branch, and Robinson/Brooks/Dennard, and Rainey. I think those 5 would greatly enhance the team.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Tebow was a good smoke screen, but I think most people saw through it. At least a large number of people on this board. Tebow just didn't make sense to the Pats. It almost became comical the way experts were trying to figure out positions for him to play with the Pats. That's what makes Barron a so much better one (if true). Because, he does fill a big need on the team and is the best at his position in the draft. It makes a lot of sense for the Pats. To much sense With Cox, I still don't see why people are so in love with him. Honestly when I watch game film he gets washed out of the play way to often against dbl teams and I don't always see the largest motor. I actually see a lot of similarities between Reyes and Cox, though Cox has more talent Reyes has the larger motor and I have seen him anchor against dbl teams. Cox to me would fit best on a team that has a line who already has DL that other teams dbl. A DL where he can be left 1v1. If the Pats had a Seymour type of RDE Cox would make a great LDE but since they don't I don't see him being the best fit on the team right now. I'd much rather have Brockers. Heck I see more in Wolfe then Cox truthfully and think Wolfe could develop into an excellent LDE.  Right now my ideal draft would be to grab Brockers, Wolfe, Curry/Branch, and Robinson/Brooks/Dennard, and Rainey. I think those 5 would greatly enhance the team.
    Posted by PatsEng

    agreed on the tebow point. everyone saw tjhrough that.
    and the brockers point above.
    interesting strategy going all de with soem good selections.
    we need de, but with the offensive gamechangeers available, i would jump and fill de and o pciks in the draft.

    love the brockers posssibility

    its an unprecedented year at wr with 40 expecte4d to be drafted. take advantage of the plethora while you can.

    id take a dl, lb, big outside wr, slot wr, o line, cb

    i like one of each of these:
    hill/jeffery/fleener
    jenkins/kirpatrick
    reyes/thompson/wolfe/winn
    branch/curry/mclellin
    several possible versatile o lineman -scars pick
    broyles/coale/hemingway

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Given that they already have 73/74 players on the 80 man roster with all the FA signings this is one year that I could see them spending draft picks to move up: the logical spots could be 11-13, 15, 17-22.
    11-13 would cost both 1st rounders with maybe improving 48 by 3 or 4 picks or some late rounders and would probably be for Cox or Ingram.
    15 might be for Barron and would cost some combination of 1st and 2nd rounder plus.
    17-22 might be for Brockers, Gilmore, Kirkpatrick (or shocker DeCastro?) and would cost a first and a second or third.
    I think the first two options would only happen if they grade out the other DE, OLB, DT, and S options as second rounders as they would have a wide selection at significantly lower cost from 17 on. (I see first round grades as sure things, second rounders as more 50/50 propositions.)
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : agreed on the tebow point. everyone saw tjhrough that. and the brockers point above. interesting strategy going all de with soem good selections. we need de, but with the offensive gamechangeers available, i would jump and fill de and o pciks in the draft. love the brockers posssibility its an unprecedented year at wr with 40 expecte4d to be drafted. take advantage of the plethora while you can. id take a dl, lb, big outside wr, slot wr, o line, cb i like one of each of these: hill/jeffery/fleener jenkins/kirpatrick reyes/thompson/wolfe/winn branch/curry/mclellin several possible versatile o lineman -scars pick broyles/coale/hemingway
    Posted by bredbru

    The problem with taking to many WR's is that we already have a ton of WR's. You must figure Lloyd, Welker, and Slater make the team. Even if they carry 7 WR's this next yea if they draft a WR (which I think they do) that leaves 3 spots open for Ocho, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman, Gonz, and maybe Gaffney (once he gets released). I can't see them taking on 2 WR's in the draft honestly. I could see them taking Rainey as a KR and a 5/6th RB option that could transform into a Faulk type of player who can line up as a WR or as a RB and another WR prospect.

    But given some solid players in the front 7 this year my preference would be to finish the D rebuild by loading up on at least 3 front 7 players and an extra DB before worrying about one of the best O's in the league that has half a young OL, a young TE, and a bunch of young RB's

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : The problem with taking to many WR's is that we already have a ton of WR's. You must figure Lloyd, Welker, and Slater make the team. Even if they carry 7 WR's this next yea if they draft a WR (which I think they do) that leaves 3 spots open for Ocho, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman, Gonz, and maybe Gaffney (once he gets released). I can't see them taking on 2 WR's in the draft honestly. I could see them taking Rainey as a KR and a 5/6th RB option that could transform into a Faulk type of player who can line up as a WR or as a RB and another WR prospect. But given some solid players in the front 7 this year my preference would be to finish the D rebuild by loading up on at least 3 front 7 players and an extra DB before worrying about one of the best O's in the league that has half a young OL, a young TE, and a bunch of young RB's
    Posted by PatsEng

    i hear the thinking. im not deterred from taking a wr to upgrade the team no matter how many wr's we cut in preseason. bb may be thinking otherwise.
    the opportunity for a potentially uncoverable wr to be drafted by a super bowl team is a rare opportunity. re the slot im looking to replace welker which we may even be able to do in fa even.


    by the way the new nepatriots.com mock is pretty decent though im not in love with chandler jones (at 27).

    what do you guy think of jones?

    their picks:
    jones,mclellin,trumaine johnson,quick,martin,taylor
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Tebow was a good smoke screen, but I think most people saw through it. At least a large number of people on this board. Tebow just didn't make sense to the Pats. It almost became comical the way experts were trying to figure out positions for him to play with the Pats. That's what makes Barron a so much better one (if true). Because, he does fill a big need on the team and is the best at his position in the draft. It makes a lot of sense for the Pats. To much sense With Cox, I still don't see why people are so in love with him. Honestly when I watch game film he gets washed out of the play way to often against dbl teams and I don't always see the largest motor. I actually see a lot of similarities between Reyes and Cox, though Cox has more talent Reyes has the larger motor and I have seen him anchor against dbl teams. Cox to me would fit best on a team that has a line who already has DL that other teams dbl. A DL where he can be left 1v1. If the Pats had a Seymour type of RDE Cox would make a great LDE but since they don't I don't see him being the best fit on the team right now. I'd much rather have Brockers. Heck I see more in Wolfe then Cox truthfully and think Wolfe could develop into an excellent LDE.  Right now my ideal draft would be to grab Brockers, Wolfe, Curry/Branch, and Robinson/Brooks/Dennard, and Rainey. I think those 5 would greatly enhance the team.
    Posted by PatsEng


    RE: Cox, I see a kid with very good size, athleticism/movement skills (bordering on elite for the position) and strength that plays with an excellent motor (don't know where you see it lacking?) with the versatility to play (and be disruptive) any position along an even front and DE in an odd front.  He could play with more consistent leverage (like most college DL) but when he does, he's tough to handle.  I also like his instincts, I think he reads plays quickly and has the quick COD to adjust and make a play on the ball carrier... tackles well.

    I know you love Wolfe, I like him too, but I haven't seen anything from him that would put him in Cox's class (arguably the best DT prospect in this class) at this point.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!":
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : RE: Cox, I see a kid with very good size, athleticism/movement skills (bordering on elite for the position) and strength that plays with an excellent motor (don't know where you see it lacking?) with the versatility to play (and be disruptive) any position along an even front and DE on an odd front.  He could play with more consistent leverage (like most college DL) but when he does, he's tough to handle.  I also like his instincts, I think he reads plays quickly and has the quick COD to adjust and make a play on the ball carrier... tackles well. I know you love Wolfe, I like him too, but I haven't seen anything from him that would put him in Cox's class (arguably the best DT prospect in this class) at this point. Posted by mbeaulieu07
    I like cox as well. I think he will be the first DT taken in this draft. Brockers and poe behind him,, then still, Reyes, Wolfe, thompson. Then Martin, Winn, Randall, etc. not in that specific order, but in terms of groupings I think that is about right.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!":
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : i hear the thinking. im not deterred from taking a wr to upgrade the team no matter how many wr's we cut in preseason. bb may be thinking otherwise. the opportunity for a potentially uncoverable wr to be drafted by a super bowl team is a rare opportunity. re the slot im looking to replace welker which we may even be able to do in fa even. by the way the new nepatriots.com mock is pretty decent though im not in love with chandler jones (at 27). http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/patriots-mock-draft-version-4-0-and-roster-projection.html/2 what do you guy think of jones? their picks: jones,mclellin,trumaine johnson,quick,martin,taylor Posted by bredbru
    I definitely don't like jones in round 1. I can't see him playing olb. He is a 4-3 de and if I was the pats, I would pass on him entirely. I think he looks the part, but played against inferior competition.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!":
    Talk about a complete smoke. Oh all the years I've followed the Pats I've never seen them toss up a smoke screen like this: " CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft. The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise." Could this mean they are actually trying to move up, and if so for who? I don't think it's for Barron, makes to much sense. They have a big need at the coverage S position and Barron is the best S in the draft. Also this info getting leaked a week before the draft? So my guess is that they either want a team to take Barron and let another player drop, or they are moving up and are targeting a different player but don't want to reveal who that player is. If it's the player my guess would be either Ingram or Brockers. If it's a team then it has to be either Dal or NYJ. But who would those teams target that the Pats want to drop? Brockers, Upshaw, Perry? Posted by PatsEng
    If its not Barron, my guess it's either brockers or Ingram. Those are the 2 kids I would make a move for, but wouldn't spend both firsts to do it . I have seen Barron mocked to both Dallas and NYJ. Both could use him. I think we would have to get ahead of Dallas to grab Barron. If we did, my guess Dallas goes with brockers, and the jests grab Ingram, upshaw or chandler jones.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!": I definitely don't like jones in round 1. I can't see him playing olb. He is a 4-3 de and if I was the pats, I would pass on him entirely. I think he looks the part, but played against inferior competition.
    Posted by PatsLifer



    im leaning the same direction as you
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    chandler is a jones i would not want for the pats. i don't like dwight either. i am okay with marvin in the later rounds.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    chandler is a jones i would not want for the pats. i don't like dwight either. i am okay with marvin in the later rounds.
    Posted by seattlepat70


    with you, but with the other bigger outside wrs, i shoot at them first (5 or 6 of them).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    The news about Shea McClellin already suffering 3 concussions while at BSU is really too bad.  This is a really big deal, and this information alone is enough to knock him back into the third round, in my eyes.  With player safety becoming such a critical issue in today's NFL, a guy like him who suffers multiple concussions could be looking at a brief career. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    That is one of the best posts I have ever read! Superb !!
    Posted by jaflentje

    Thanks man:)))!!!  Appreciate that.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    BB's approach to the draft is all about value.  I know this is a phase we all hear repeatedly, but do we truly understand what that means?  I may not fully understand it either but I think it means that BB will take the players at the optimal spot in the draft based on the "value" they represent where chosen.  Each draft is different.  Values are also determined by our team needs and on needs of other teams.  Values are also greatly determined by the depth of talent at each position.  For instance, this is a weak class for QBs, TEs, ILBs and S.  Therefore this drives the value up for these players.  The class is deep at WR, OT, DT, DE, OLB and CB.  This drives the values of these players down.  More on this in a moment.   Here is a true and important statistic, and I love statistics.  As a background, data is everything to me!!!!  An important quote I once heard is, "A man without data is just another a** hole with an opinion."  (A professor shared that quote once and I use it often.  It is not meant as an insult to anyone on here with an opinion because we all have them).  The important statistic is that a player drafted next at the same position has a 50/50 chance to be better than the player drafted ahead of him.   This is based on the last 40 years of draft history.  If we know and accept this, and we study other team needs and understand the depth of each position, we can better navigate through the draft and select based on "value." According to CBS Sports, and you can use any draft site and come to a very similar result, the top 64 players (first 2 rounds) by positional depth are as follows: Offense (31): QB: 4 WR: 8 RB: 6 OT: 7 C/G: 4 TE: 2 Defense (33): DT:  7 DE:  8 OLB: 7 ILB: 2 CB:  8 S:   2 This tells us clearly that if you want a good S or TE you better move fast.  I'm not saying there will be any TEs taken in the first round or that both S will go in round 1.  I'm just saying teams with those needs better act fast because the "value" of these 4 players is high.  Whereas if you need a WR, DE or CB you can wait and address those needs later because there are 8 players in these positions rated in the first two rounds.  This is why I think although Harrison Smith is probably a mid 2nd round talent, his value pushes him up to late 1st, early 2nd.  So if we need a S (and we do), we shouldn't feel bad about taking him at 27 or 31 because that is where his value is, this year, in this class.  With BAL at 29 needed a S, it's a gamble to pass on him at 27 hoping Konz or Hightower slip to 29 and have BAL take one of them instead.  This is also why I'm not getting caught up in all this talk about taking a rush DE/OLB or DT early.  There is "value" later on.  We don't need to spend a 1-2 round pick at WR, or DE either.  There is "value" later on.  So, when arguably our top need is S, we should draft Harrison Smith at 27, not mess around and turn in the card.  We can then trade 31 back as we all know BB will do, and find value in the 2nd or 3rd rounds at DT, WR, DE, OLB etc.
    Posted by Faucetman


    i think that is one of two schools of thought on value.

    what you are describing is value as determined by supply and demand (more like supply) on a particular draft. the more players available in a position the lower the price (pick) you have to pay. 

    the position counts you describe above are simply determined by ranking the players, picking the top 64 and counting the number of players that represent each position. this would imply that each class is as good as any other.

    the other school of thought (more difficult) is grading players on an absolute scale. value is determined according to what you think they can actually deliver on the nfl stage. this is a reasonable approach if you believe that some classes are better than others and that the difference can be significant. 

    i believe the latter is what bb does. that is the reason why he sometimes would trade completely out of the first round. i believe he does that if he believes that there's nobody worth a first round pick. he trades up when he thinks there is someone whose ability deserves a higher rate across all drafts. this is also the reason why he makes very surprising picks. he selects players where he thinks the player is worth on an absolute level, which can often be different from the consensus rating for the particular draft. 

    you'd have to believe that you can rate players better than anyone else. i believe bb believes that. if you don't trust yourself as much, you go by the ratings that are determined by the wisdom of the crowd.



     
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