***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    I did not take you for a masochist SeattlePat. I watched BOTH the Bruins get beat and then the Sox crumble. Then I took in The Three Stooges movie which was like food poisoning it was so painfully lame. I may have to go to church tomorrow to confess my sins. But more likely I will be watching both the Sox and Bruins again and cursing my fate in life. Thank Bob Dee and Houston Antwine it is almost draft day.
    Posted by pumpsiefan


    tomorrow is another day. hang in there, friend. believe.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Yup, I am a Boston sports fan, why wouldn't I believe in tomorrow in the greatest sports town in America. Where else do you get a celebration like we did yesterday or at least one team championship every couple of years this century. Yeah, there are bad days like today, but they only make the good ones tastier.
    I am in for the ride, SPat, probably the same as everyone here.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Couple of thoughts:
    On Smith - if BB grades him as a 1st rounder, then I don't see him worrying about taking him at 27 vs waiting for 31, unless there is someone he is much higher on at 27. If he grades him as a 2nd rounder, then I wouldn't be surprised to see BB take less than he would normally demand to move either 27 or 31 into the 33-37 range cause I don't think Smith makes it much past there.
    Poe and Brockers are similar in that a team drafting them is not drafting for college production but based on expectation/hope that they can develop with coaching. The difference with Brockers is that his value has been fairly constant  whereas Poe came from nowhere based on a single weekend of work and the further from that weekend we get the lower his stock falls. (I think most of us like the idea of Brockers falling and fear Poe - not sure exactly why.)
    On DBs - if we do not get Barron or Smith which I think is quite possible, then I would not be surprised at any CB or Safety we took at any point in the draft. I think with RasI and McC we have two corners who could be moved to safety if the DB(s) we drafted were more suited to CB than S. I think with the NFL being so pass happy a lot of teams are thinking more along the lines of 3 CB one S in terms of skill sets.
    I also think that this change to a pass happy NFL could point to another possible change in BB's strategic thinking and drafting. I would not be surprised if we drafted one of the 'undersized' but FAST LBs specifically for passing down sub packages. Our LB pass coverage skills are not great and BB experimented a few years ago with a sort of hybrid LB/S position. There are a few of those guys from late second round on that might just get picked. (240 lbs 4.5 ish speed.)
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Hey Guys, only 5 days till draft day!  I'm going take a stab at putting together a mock for the Patriots.  If we came away with a draft that looks something like this, I would be really happy.

    #23 (From Det) Michael Brockers  DE/DT LSU   BB sends picks 31 & 62 to Detroit to move up and get their guy ahead of Denver.

    #37 (From Clev) Harrison Smith  S  ND  I know MB & Faucet are very high on Smith.  I like him too, but not as a 1st rounder.  I question his athleticism to some degree, but I agree that he is a smart, sound player with good instincts that can make up for a lack of elite speed.  I would be much happier getting him here than at 27.  I think Clev trades up for Weeden, sending this pick (37) and their 3rd to NE to get him.

    #51 (From Philly)  Brian Quick  WR  App St.  I just love this kid's upside.  I know we're crowded at WR after free agency, but I think there's room for a young talent like Quick.  BB keeps the annual trade streak with Andy Reid alive here, as Philly jumps up to grab Bobby Wagner, giving NE this pick (51), a 6th, & a 2013 7th.

    #67 (From Clev)  Brandon Boykin  CB  Georgia  Boykin is a "boom or bust" guy in my opinion, but I like his upside here and I'm willing to gamble in the 3rd round.  With some solid coaching, he could develop into a great man-to-man corner, and his kick return abiltiy speaks for itself.

    #93 Josh Chapman DT Bama. I think this could be a classic BB "plan for the future" value pick. I think Chapman is an under-rated prospect in this class. He looks like he could fit perfectly as a NT in a 3-4, and I believe NE could draft him with the idea that he could be the replacement for Wilfork when the sad day comes when Big Vince hangs it up.   Love the value here.

    #126  Oliver Vernon  OLB Miami  Very raw player who has some off-the-field issues, but one of the most promising and athletic pass-rushing prospects in the draft. Has also shown the ability to play effectively in coverage.

    6th round (From Philly)  Tom Compton OT South Dakota  6'6" OT who has pretty good footwork.  Fits the mold for what BB like in OTs as far as size.  Pretty raw coming from a small program, but Scar could coach this guy up really well.


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!":
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Who's the bigger CB conversion kid that you'd take ahead of Smith (that's how I interpreted the last portion of your post)?  Gilmore to me is the obvious name, but I think he's drafted as a CB first. Barron, Smith, Iloka, Martin, Taylor and maybe an Antonio Allen, etc. are kids that I think could come in and start/contribute to the S position year one (there isn't a lot of competition on the roster).     Toss in Gilmore and Johnson if you're looking for CB's who could prob play the position though I think Gilmore should/would be a CB first as mentioned above. Also, considering Brown and Ihedigbo were both undrafted, it's not unrealistic to think that other late round/URFA's in this class (ND CB/S Robert Blanton, Iowa S Jordan Bernstine, Oregon State CB/S Brandon Hardin, Auburn S Neiko Thorpe etc.) could be brought in to upgrade their spots. Lastly, I think DMC's move to S last season was out of necessity and while he can play the position, I think they want him at CB... strictly my opinion. Posted by mbeaulieu07
    Gilmore would be it, but like you said, probably long gone at that point. I have Dennard later, but after his recent antics I can't see the pats looking at him. Given everything you and faucet have written in this topic lately, I believe Harrison smith is our best selection end of round 1. I put safety at a bigger need than olb, DT, de and, I think beyond smith, there really isn't a ton of top quality at that positionninnthis draft, where the former is depth all the way into round 3 and 4. This was my point..i don't see a ton of good safeties outside if Barron and smith. I don't see many cb conversion kids later either. To me tat means either the pats take smith, or they draft another corner that can pay ahead of Arrington, Moore and possibly McCourty. Given where we draft, i don't see a cb surpassing McCourty nor possibly Moore. Therefore smith makes the logical choice
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I'd agree.  Poe looks like a better athlete, with better explosion, but I don't see him finish a ton of plays or play with a consistent motor... I also don't see a ton of awareness.  Kid is definitely more potential than production... best case scenario for NE is some team taking him before 27, etc.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    agreed! athlete. not a football player.
    if it were "in his blood", with hsi elite size and agility, hed be lights out.
    give me a "football player".
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Time to look at some data.  I've compared the top two S in the draft.  After these two there aren't any IMO worthy of a pick in the first three rounds.  Harrison Smith has acquitted himself nicely compared to Barron.  I looked at both of their full college careers and their last 3 years since Barron wasn't a starter as a freshman.  Harrison Smith - Notre Dame       Year TOT SOLO SACK FF INT 2008 57 39 3.5     2009 69 39   1   2010 91 55     7 2011 90 53   1   TOT 307 186 3.5 2 7 Mark Barron - Alabama     Year TOT SOLO SACK FF INT 2008 16 7 1.5     2009 76 43 0.5   7 2010 75 54 2 1 3 2011 68 43 1   2 TOT 235 147 5 1 12 Last 3 Years Comparison Harrison Smith - Notre Dame       Year TOT SOLO SACK FF INT 2009 69 39   1   2010 91 55     7 2011 90 53   1   TOT 250 147 0 2 7 Mark Barron - Alabama     Year TOT SOLO SACK FF INT 2009 76 43 0.5   7 2010 75 54 2 1 3 2011 68 43 1   2 TOT 219 140 3.5 1 12 I agree with Mb, we need size back there.  Barrett and Brown have size but neither can play.  Smith can play.  Mediocre TEs ate us up last year.  So we do not a S with size and skills to cover TEs and help out over the top.  I love Smith's range, length, movement skills, smarts, toughness, leadership and he loves to hit.  There are no character or injury concerns that I'm aware of.  The only knock I have on him is he draws too many flags for late or illegal hits.  But so did Rodney Harrison.  But we need an intimidator back there and we need someone who can tackle the ever bigger and stronger WRs in the league.  I'm sick of watching opposing WRs run through people and pick up 10-20 more yards.  Smith at 27.  I'm calling it, LOL.
    Posted by Faucetman


    if hes all that great.
    i didnt see rd 1 talent in the kid in my limited viewing.
    i thought his hips were very stiff.
    his agility seemed more like a linebacker.
    wansnt impressed by his speed.
    so i dont knwo that he would give us more cever abilty on agile tes
    sure he can tackle.
    he may or may not be better than chung, but next to chung he doesnt give us much i feel, especially as a rd 1 pick.
    if we go db high, id rather get an elite cb or elite fs (if we had the chance at that) or exceptional cover safety or get a potential elite dl or wr/te

    someone who will make turnovers, score, or the de can be built around.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I know!!!  Glad you agree.  The pick is so obvious even Kiper should be able to figure it out.  Smith at 27, Bruce Irvin at 62.  We can trade 31 and 48 into next year plus drop down and gain some late round picks this year.  I would love to get something around 56 and 75.  You know I love Mike Martin.  I think this kid has Patriot written all over him too.  I think Pryor and Brace can't stay healthy and I doubt Marcus Harrison sticks. If we got Harrison Smith at 27, I think our need at CB diminishes.  We have McCourty and Dowling as starters with Arrington, Moore and Allen behind them.  If numb skull Jenkins drops like a rock as expected we might take the chance on him at 93.  Hernandez fell a lot further than that with less issues.  So, if BB does what he usually does we could go: 27.  Harrison Smith 56.  LaMichael James 62.  Bruce Irvin 75.  Mike Martin 93.  Janoris Jenkins 126. Joe Adams I'm sure we'll have something in rounds 5-7 too plus we will end up with an extra 1st and 2nd next year too.  Imagine what James and Adams could bring to the offense and special teams.  Smith steps in and starts day 1 while Irvin and Martin come in on passing downs.  If Jenkins gets his head screwed on straight, he could beat out Dowling or at a minimum, be a great slot corner with his quicks and movement skills.  PLUS, we go laughing into next year with a pair of 1st and 2nds again!!!
    Posted by Faucetman


    if all those players land on their upsides that could be quite a draft.
    i'm iffy on irvin.
    james i like a lot, but doesnt he make our starting 2 backs redundant.

    also i dont like missing the only opportunity we will likely get to draft a potentially unstoppable huge outside wr (so i gotta have one in this draft when the plethora makes them drop everywhere to our reach).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : you are a kind person. thanks. i needed that. i was on the verge of throwing this computer onto the tv a few minutes ago. i am watching the red sox game.
    Posted by seattlepat70



    sox management will do that to you with their "look we're trying" act but really not trying. not filling needed holes in starting pitching and relief pitching with pitchers who can compete with the best lineups. this years outcome was written on the wall halfway through offseason.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Couple of thoughts: On Smith - if BB grades him as a 1st rounder, then I don't see him worrying about taking him at 27 vs waiting for 31, unless there is someone he is much higher on at 27. If he grades him as a 2nd rounder, then I wouldn't be surprised to see BB take less than he would normally demand to move either 27 or 31 into the 33-37 range cause I don't think Smith makes it much past there. Poe and Brockers are similar in that a team drafting them is not drafting for college production but based on expectation/hope that they can develop with coaching. The difference with Brockers is that his value has been fairly constant  whereas Poe came from nowhere based on a single weekend of work and the further from that weekend we get the lower his stock falls. (I think most of us like the idea of Brockers falling and fear Poe - not sure exactly why.) On DBs - if we do not get Barron or Smith which I think is quite possible, then I would not be surprised at any CB or Safety we took at any point in the draft. I think with RasI and McC we have two corners who could be moved to safety if the DB(s) we drafted were more suited to CB than S. I think with the NFL being so pass happy a lot of teams are thinking more along the lines of 3 CB one S in terms of skill sets. I also think that this change to a pass happy NFL could point to another possible change in BB's strategic thinking and drafting. I would not be surprised if we drafted one of the 'undersized' but FAST LBs specifically for passing down sub packages. Our LB pass coverage skills are not great and BB experimented a few years ago with a sort of hybrid LB/S position. There are a few of those guys from late second round on that might just get picked. (240 lbs 4.5 ish speed.)
    Posted by mia76


    "Our LB pass coverage skills are not great"

    that is a huuuuuuge understatement! :)
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Hey Guys, only 5 days till draft day!  I'm going take a stab at putting together a mock for the Patriots.  If we came away with a draft that looks something like this, I would be really happy. #23 (From Det) Michael Brockers  DE/DT LSU   BB sends picks 31 & 62 to Detroit to move up and get their guy ahead of Denver. #37 (From Clev) Harrison Smith  S  ND  I know MB & Faucet are very high on Smith.  I like him too, but not as a 1st rounder.  I question his athleticism to some degree, but I agree that he is a smart, sound player with good instincts that can make up for a lack of elite speed.  I would be much happier getting him here than at 27.  I think Clev trades up for Weeden, sending this pick (37) and their 3rd to NE to get him. #51 (From Philly)  Brian Quick  WR  App St.  I just love this kid's upside.  I know we're crowded at WR after free agency, but I think there's room for a young talent like Quick.  BB keeps the annual trade streak with Andy Reid alive here, as Philly jumps up to grab Bobby Wagner, giving NE this pick (51), a 6th, & a 2013 7th. #67 (From Clev)  Brandon Boykin  CB  Georgia  Boykin is a "boom or bust" guy in my opinion, but I like his upside here and I'm willing to gamble in the 3rd round.  With some solid coaching, he could develop into a great man-to-man corner, and his kick return abiltiy speaks for itself. #93 Josh Chapman DT Bama. I think this could be a classic BB "plan for the future" value pick. I think Chapman is an under-rated prospect in this class. He looks like he could fit perfectly as a NT in a 3-4, and I believe NE could draft him with the idea that he could be the replacement for Wilfork when the sad day comes when Big Vince hangs it up.   Love the value here. #126  Oliver Vernon  OLB Miami  Very raw player who has some off-the-field issues, but one of the most promising and athletic pass-rushing prospects in the draft. Has also shown the ability to play effectively in coverage. 6th round (From Philly)  Tom Compton OT South Dakota  6'6" OT who has pretty good footwork.  Fits the mold for what BB like in OTs as far as size.  Pretty raw coming from a small program, but Scar could coach this guy up really well.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer



    i reallllly like this!

    though i dont know the last 2. i do like the description you give of them, and if they panned out.....
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Your wrong on his athleticism, he turns his hips and fluid when it counts, for a big man. Cant teach this, it is what it is. Cornerbacks to Safeties wont work, different kind of animals. I'm waiting for the Ronnie Lott scenario on this. I have an answer. I dont get it, probably the most important part of the Defefense is a Safety, probably the hardest position to play too. Have to help the CB's, support the run, most of the time calling the Defensive backfiled adjustments. Smith should be a 1st round pick. If Tannehill could go up to 8, whats the problem? Miami would be dumb if they make that move.
    Posted by bobbysu



    i jsut got to the end of the thread and saw you say the opposite about his hips, fluid, cover, athletic.

    i stand by what i saw.
    howevver i did not see him more than twice and not for whole games either time.

    if im wrong, and he can cover well, and hes a stud and we get him i will be delighted

    (still dont see ard 1 pick, but what the hey).
    i liked both wazzu's and faucet's draft scenarios above
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Hey Guys, only 5 days till draft day!  I'm going take a stab at putting together a mock for the Patriots.  If we came away with a draft that looks something like this, I would be really happy. #23 (From Det) Michael Brockers  DE/DT LSU   BB sends picks 31 & 62 to Detroit to move up and get their guy ahead of Denver. #37 (From Clev) Harrison Smith  S  ND  I know MB & Faucet are very high on Smith.  I like him too, but not as a 1st rounder.  I question his athleticism to some degree, but I agree that he is a smart, sound player with good instincts that can make up for a lack of elite speed.  I would be much happier getting him here than at 27.  I think Clev trades up for Weeden, sending this pick (37) and their 3rd to NE to get him. #51 (From Philly)  Brian Quick  WR  App St.  I just love this kid's upside.  I know we're crowded at WR after free agency, but I think there's room for a young talent like Quick.  BB keeps the annual trade streak with Andy Reid alive here, as Philly jumps up to grab Bobby Wagner, giving NE this pick (51), a 6th, & a 2013 7th. #67 (From Clev)  Brandon Boykin  CB  Georgia  Boykin is a "boom or bust" guy in my opinion, but I like his upside here and I'm willing to gamble in the 3rd round.  With some solid coaching, he could develop into a great man-to-man corner, and his kick return abiltiy speaks for itself. #93 Josh Chapman DT Bama. I think this could be a classic BB "plan for the future" value pick. I think Chapman is an under-rated prospect in this class. He looks like he could fit perfectly as a NT in a 3-4, and I believe NE could draft him with the idea that he could be the replacement for Wilfork when the sad day comes when Big Vince hangs it up.   Love the value here. #126  Oliver Vernon  OLB Miami  Very raw player who has some off-the-field issues, but one of the most promising and athletic pass-rushing prospects in the draft. Has also shown the ability to play effectively in coverage. 6th round (From Philly)  Tom Compton OT South Dakota  6'6" OT who has pretty good footwork.  Fits the mold for what BB like in OTs as far as size.  Pretty raw coming from a small program, but Scar could coach this guy up really well.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    Waz,
    Overall, I think this would be an excellent haul... you get big time help to the DL and S positions, depth at CB/PR and some upside at WR and OLB.

    As for the pick that I'm not that high on:

    I think Quick has some size and upside, I just feel that there should be better, more proven options at #51 (i.e. Jeffery, Sanu, maybe Randle etc.).  I don't hate the pick, just assume that there'll be better options available.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Waz, Overall, I think this would be an excellent haul... you get big time help to the DL and S positions, depth at CB/PR and some upside at WR and OLB. As for the pick that I'm not that high on: I think Quick has some size and upside, I just feel that there should be better, more proven options at #51 (i.e. Jeffery, Sanu, maybe Randle etc.).  I don't hate the pick, just assume that there'll be better options available.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    MB-  Thanks man!  I don't disagree with you about the 2nd rnd WRs.  I would indeed take Sanu & Jeffery over Quick (probably Randle too, although I've cooled off on him a bit.)  I opperating under the assumption that those 3 were all gone, and that the run on WRs allows a few guys like Boykin & Chapman to slip a bit.  Good call, though.  Jeffery would be my favorite of the 3 that you mentioned, but I kind of feel like he will go pretty early in the second.  Just too much talent and great film for him to slide too far, IMO.  Sanu's stock seems to be on the rise too.  I'd be suprised if he's there at 48.  Quick is a real sleeper for me.  He is not nearly as polished as some of the other guys, but I really feel like he will be a star in the NFL.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : MB-  Thanks man!  I don't disagree with you about the 2nd rnd WRs.  I would indeed take Sanu & Jeffery over Quick (probably Randle too, although I've cooled off on him a bit.)  I opperating under the assumption that those 3 were all gone, and that the run on WRs allows a few guys like Boykin & Chapman to slip a bit.  Good call, though.  Jeffery would be my favorite of the 3 that you mentioned, but I kind of feel like he will go pretty early in the second.  Just too much talent and great film for him to slide too far, IMO.  Sanu's stock seems to be on the rise too.  I'd be suprised if he's there at 48.  Quick is a real sleeper for me.  He is not nearly as polished as some of the other guys, but I really feel like he will be a star in the NFL.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    No prob!

    I actually had meant to comment on the Chapman pick as well.

    He's an under the radar guy that makes a ton of sense in NE... I've had him on my board for a long time and he'll finish as a Rd 3-4 kid projection for me.  Kid isn't tall (shade under 6-1), but plays between 315-320, has enourmous hands (11 1/8) and is very tough to move off the ball... would be an excellent 2-gap space eater for them and is proven as a BB style 34 NT (could also play alongside VW inside in 43) and at the hightest level of college FB... love the pick.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : No prob! I actually had meant to comment on the Chapman pick as well. He's an under the radar guy that makes a ton of sense in NE... I've had him on my board for a long time and he'll finish as a Rd 3-4 kid projection for me.  Kid isn't tall (shade under 6-1), but plays between 315-320, has enourmous hands (11 1/8) and is very tough to move off the ball... would be an excellent 2-gap space eater for them and is proven as a BB style 34 NT and at the hightest level of college FB... love the pick.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Yeah, Chapman would be an awesome pick in the 3rd.  He's sort of lost in the wake of the other great Alabama defenders in this draft. His height doesn't concern me for a nose tackle.  He is brutally strong and a pretty athletic "Big Man" to boot.  The only reason I think he will be available in the third is because he has had an ACL tear. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : that defensive depth chart does not inspire confidence in me that they will play much better than last year. let me start at DL. i did not like love on 43 dt assignment i do not like fanene on 34 de neither of the DEs on the depth chart is a true 43 DE. sure you can plug in nink or cunningham, i just do not consider either one of them as starter quality 43 DE. bottomline, i'd prefer they draft DL upgrade in the form of someone who can play 43DE/34DT or better yet someone who can play either on 34 - reyes or thompson are my choices.  and faucet, if they pick poe at 27, i will trust that bb saw something in him. let me shift to LB. you have them set up for 43. if that is the direction they go, i'd prefer a quicker mlb than spikes. he's great against the run, but his lack of quickness will be a liability against a good passing attack. then there is the issue of that LB corps not being built to go 34. assuming nink keeps improving, i would not feel confident about depending on cunningham opposite nink. they need one more anderson/carter type player or better. corner? i can't believe i will say this but we'll have to wait and see what dmc and rasi bring next year. safety? any safety crew that gives s brown a chance to step on the field is a big problem to me.  crowded or not, faucet, they need players who will push the bar at the starting spots. my baseball analogy to the situation is a team with many starters but none of the starters is a bona fide #1 or #2. they need to draft starting talent, not depth fillers.
    Posted by seattlepat70

    Yeah, I hear you.  I'm not all gaga about what they brought in defensively.  I do think Andre Carter will be back once he clears medically but the guy turns 84 soon.  

    This is why this draft needs to be all about defense.  We've talked about this before.  Perhaps we should package our pair of firsts and seconds and try to go up and get Brockers and Barron.  I'm not sure we have enough ammo to do it, but depending how things unfold, I would spend those 4 picks to get those 2 players.  Using the old draft value chart:

    31+48+62=10 We'd have to deal with BUF but could get Brockers there then use 27 on Harrison Smith.  We simply must land Barron or Smith.  If we don't we are going to suffer through another year of crappy secondary play and watching teams convert 3rd and 18s all year long.

    A lot of the writers on BDC and even Reiss are talking about trading up to land a couple of impact players.  But BB philosophy has always been about value and not falling in love with a specific player.  Until I see him vary from that formula, I think we need to stay with who could be in range where we are and trading down.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    If Brockers gets past Tennessee at #20, I think it is realistic that NE will move up for him.  I think they would definitally need to get ahead of Denver at 25.  I think Detroit at 23 would be a likely trade partner, as I had in my recently posted mock.  It is beginning to look unlikely that Brockers will even last until 20, however, as Philly, SD, Chi, and Tenn have all been rumored to have serious interest in him.  If Brockers is gone, and none of the consensus Top 20 guys slip to #27, then I would actually be okay with trading back into the early 2nd round with both 27 & 31.  I simply don't love the talent projected to be available late in the first this year.  One thing to remember, however, is that it takes two to tango.  There will have to be a team or teams really wanting to get a player in the late 1st round, and I don't know how many teams will be chomping at the bit to get any of these guys this year.  Maybe Clevland will make a bold move for Weeden...  Harrison Smith wouldn't disappoint me too bad with #27 due to the need at Safety, but I really view him as more of a second round talent. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : No prob! I actually had meant to comment on the Chapman pick as well. He's an under the radar guy that makes a ton of sense in NE... I've had him on my board for a long time and he'll finish as a Rd 3-4 kid projection for me.  Kid isn't tall (shade under 6-1), but plays between 315-320, has enourmous hands (11 1/8) and is very tough to move off the ball... would be an excellent 2-gap space eater for them and is proven as a BB style 34 NT (could also play alongside VW inside in 43) and at the hightest level of college FB... love the pick.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I'm not overly convinced with Chapman truthfully. Given the level of talent around him he greatly under performed imo. He reminds me of Brace playing next to Raji. I don't think he'll be nearly as good without having the talent around him

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Interesting report from Reiss. This tells me a couple of thing

    1) They have a list of players they might be targeting but won't jump up large in order to get one. The reason being that they have targeted 5-6 players that could fall in the 20+ pick range. Though it also tells me that if a player gets within reach they might move up for them

    2) They are primarily focused on D first and foremost

    Now, with Jones I can't see it being anything more then a smoke screen if realized. He's to raw, lack of production, and doesn't have a great burst/fluidity to fit what they typically look for in a OLB/DE

    Though I hear what people are saying about Smith he's just to much like Chung for me to consider as a coverage FS

    Here's the report:

    "ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss feels that Alabama S Mark Barron is atop the Patriots' list as a first-round possibility.
    Reiss also lists LSU DL Michael Brockers, Syracuse DE Chandler Jones, Alabama DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw, Boise State OLB Shea McClellin, and Notre Dame S Harrison Smith as possibilities. Barron won't make it all the way to the Patriots at pick No. 27, but Reiss suggests they could trade up to the 10-to-13 range. If not, two or three of the other names on Reiss' list should be available. Rotoworld's Evan Silva has New England taking McClellin in his latest mock draft."
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In assessing team needs at 28, 29 and 30 GB needs safety help.  Charlie Peprah was torched on a weekly basis and Nick Collins' career could be over.  We already discussed BAL needing to find Ed Reed's replacement soon but they would probably take Konz as a more immediate need.  Still, the risk is too great to pass on Smith at 27 hoping he slips through to 31 so I still think we take him.

    27.  S Harrison Smith - Notre Dame

    It's taking me awhile to warm up to Kendall Reyes at 31 because his production wasn't especially impressive against so-so competition.  However, as a 5 technique he will be asked to occupy blockers allowing the LBs to make plays.  Reyes is one of the more athletic guys at the Combine for his size and could develop into something special in time.

    31.  DT Kendall Reyes - UCONN

    We need a pass rusher.  With the loss of Mark Anderson's 10 sacks and possibly loss of Andre Carter's 10 sacks I'm not comfortable that Trevor Scott can get us more than 5 assuming he stays healthy.  We will likely switch back and forth between 3 and 4 man fronts and Vinny Curry to me is a perfect situational pass rusher who may even be able to stand up a little.  With SD on the clock with the next pick, they are a threat to take Curry even with their recent signing of Jarrett Johnson, who is not a pass rusher.

    48.  DE/OLB Vinny Curry  - Marshall

    There is no way we keep both fullbacks as they are too similar and would only fill a situational role on the team and not expected to get many carries.  Woodhead's production was way off last year plus he becomes a F/A after this season.  Vereen hasn't shown he can stay healthy.  40% of our carries from last year went out the door with BJGE and Faulk.  Ridley projects as the starter but if he continues to put the ball on the ground he could quickly find his way to the bench.  I expect Doug Martin to be gone at this point but one of Wilson, Miller and probably LaMichael James will be there at 62.  James is by far the most prolific and most versatile runner of the three as he led the nation with 1,805 rushing yards at an impressive 7.31 average.  James can also return punts which gives him value on special teams.  James was 3rd in the nation with all purpose yards with 2,175 with 210 receiving yards.  James reminds of Darren Sproles so SD could be looking at him before this point but if he makes it here, he could be an electric player making our offense even more lethal.  If he's gone, either Wilson or Miller would fill the need.

    62.  LaMichael James - Oregon

    With Barrett, Brown and Chung all set to become free agents after 2012 and knowing that Steven Gregory is a long shot to start, let alone make the team, a second pick at safety keeps the trend of taking multiple high picks at positions of need going.  In 2011 we took a pair of RBs and in 2010 a pair of TEs, so with our need so big, it makes sense to do it at safety this year.  Taylor is a 3 year starter at SS in one of the elite SEC programs.  He's essentially a box safety who tackles and hits.  He reads and reacts well.  He's a former team captain and would be a steady back-up to the oft injured Chung allowing us to leave Smith at FS should Chung go down again.

    93.  SS Brandon Taylor - LSU

    The Patriots ranked 19th in the kick off return yards last year.  Their leading return man, Danny Woodhead ranked 33rd.  The Pats also have major question marks at slot receiver after this season with Welker likely to move to greener pastures and Edelman set to become a free agent.  TY Hilton fills both of these needs.  Hilton ranked 8th in the NCAA in kick off return average at 18/548, a 30.44 average.  As a receiver he collected 72/1,038/7.  He also has 4.37 speed.  The concern with Hilton is durability, otherwise he'd be a solid 2nd round pick.  If we get him in the weight room and use him only in the return game for one season, hopefully he can add enough bulk to assume some slot duties in 2013 and beyond.

    126. WR TY Hilton

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Faucetman - interesting draft. I would say:
    1. Edelman and Woodhead will not command much on the FA market so keeping them would be relatively easy.
    2. We just signed an injury prone slot with good speed so not sure BB will be all that excited about adding another 'durability' issue.
    3. BB relying on a backfield of 2 second year guys and a rookie is not likely, so if we add another back it will likely be one of the cheap veteran FA we just brought in for workouts or a late preseason cut, unless there is a huge value proposition later in the draft.
    I will be really surprised if we draft an offensive skill guy that is not at least one round later than he has been projected. So say Martin at 62 or Alshon/Sanu at 93 sort of thing. I would not be as surprised at an OL guy at relatively standard value.
    I think doubling up at any of the defensive positions is quite possible or going S/CB so what you have at safety makes sense to me - or Reyes/Wolfe, or Curry/Irvin, etc.

    On the Hoyer trade value discussed elsewhere - I could see a team like Denver who could definitely use an upgraded back-up listening to a #31/Hoyer for #25 swap or something similar to convert 62 to an earlier second rounder and adding in some late round picks. Straight up trade I just don't see anyone paying more than a fourth at most more likely a fifth. He is on a one year contract, so a team taking him either has to work out an extension or is just renting him for a year.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomkyan. Show tomkyan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Yeah, I hear you.  I'm not all gaga about what they brought in defensively.  I do think Andre Carter will be back once he clears medically but the guy turns 84 soon.   This is why this draft needs to be all about defense.  We've talked about this before.  Perhaps we should package our pair of firsts and seconds and try to go up and get Brockers and Barron.  I'm not sure we have enough ammo to do it, but depending how things unfold, I would spend those 4 picks to get those 2 players.  Using the old draft value chart: 31+48+62=10 We'd have to deal with BUF but could get Brockers there then use 27 on Harrison Smith.  We simply must land Barron or Smith.  If we don't we are going to suffer through another year of crappy secondary play and watching teams convert 3rd and 18s all year long. A lot of the writers on BDC and even Reiss are talking about trading up to land a couple of impact players.  But BB philosophy has always been about value and not falling in love with a specific player.  Until I see him vary from that formula, I think we need to stay with who could be in range where we are and trading down.
    Posted by Faucetman



    We could trade with the Chiefs as Pioli and Crennel are both there, maybe 31+48+Hoyer or 27+48+4th rd pick. Or we could deal with Arizona, trade 31+48
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : MB-  Thanks man!  I don't disagree with you about the 2nd rnd WRs.  I would indeed take Sanu & Jeffery over Quick (probably Randle too, although I've cooled off on him a bit.)  I opperating under the assumption that those 3 were all gone, and that the run on WRs allows a few guys like Boykin & Chapman to slip a bit.  Good call, though.  Jeffery would be my favorite of the 3 that you mentioned, but I kind of feel like he will go pretty early in the second.  Just too much talent and great film for him to slide too far, IMO.  Sanu's stock seems to be on the rise too.  I'd be suprised if he's there at 48.  Quick is a real sleeper for me.  He is not nearly as polished as some of the other guys, but I really feel like he will be a star in the NFL.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer
    \

    totally agree with you on where jeffery and sanu go.
    though i value moving up for a spectacular player over pciking avg players at position of need.

    trade up from 48 and get jeffery!
     
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