***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : It's just really what my eye is telling me. When I watched him he occupied space well but never really took on a ton of dbl teams. For the most part when he was dbl'd he was washed out of the play moving laterally along the line. He didn't have the penetrating power that we see in most NT's and stayed relatively close to the line. To me that usually translates to being pushed backwards in the pro's. Considering the D he was on I would have expected to see him more aggressive in pushing the pocket and even willingness to shoot the gap when allowed. Instead usually what I saw was OL holding their own against him and holding him close to the line. Typically they ran right at him because of the presence on the outside edge. Honestly I don't see him being any better then Love is with a Brace type of downside. 
    Posted by PatsEng


    Kid does what he's supposed to do, he occupies blocks, eats up space... does it well.  He's strong at the point, plays with natural leverage, balance and a solid base, can and does push the pocket... I don't see a lot of him being washed out of the play as you're claiming... kid is solid vs. the double, does his job to free up others to make plays.  He's a 34/43 NT so prob not a kid that's asked to or will be asked to shoot a ton of gaps, but he can push the pocket.  Kid can stack and shed and is excellent vs. the run.

    Not to mention he could be one of the tougher kids in the entire class, having played a lot of the season with a torn ACL & meniscus (happened game 5 vs. Florida). 

    The game he missed was vs. Georgia Southern, who ran up 302 rushing with him out of the lineup (which more than doubled the next highest total against them all season), LSU was only able to rack up 187 total rushing yards in (2) games against 'Bama, both of which Chapman played in.

    Excellent fit for what NE likes to do, IMO.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    RE: Harrison Smith.

    I think he's a top 40-50 prospect in this class with Rd 1 upside, that's my grade on him.  He's a very good, "4 down" football player, with all the intangibles and few if any real weaknesses to his game... he's also flashed some ballhawk ability and will make a good FS at the NFL level.  I think he's a better coverage player than Chung.  I think anytime you have a S on a WR, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but Smith will be good vs. TE's and RB's etc.

    I'm still holding out hope that NE lands one of the 'Bama kids (Barron/Upshaw/Hightower/Kirkpatrick) or Michael Brockers (potentially moving into the low 20's for any of the five) , if they don't, I do expect them to trade back and target a kid like Harrison Smith somewhere between 33 & 48 etc.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Kid does what he's supposed to do, he occupies blocks, eats up space... does it well.  He's strong at the point, plays with natural leverage, balance and a solid base, can and does push the pocket... I don't see a lot of him being washed out of the play as you're claiming... kid is solid vs. the double, does his job to free up others to make plays.  He's a 34/43 NT so prob not a kid that's asked to or will be asked to shoot a ton of gaps, but he can push the pocket.  Kid can stack and shed and is excellent vs. the run. Not to mention he could be one of the tougher kids in the entire class, having played a lot of the season with a torn ACL & meniscus (happened game 5 vs. Florida).  The game he missed was vs. Georgia Southern, who ran up 302 rushing with him out of the lineup (which more than doubled the next highest total against them all season), LSU was only able to rack up 187 total rushing yards in (2) games against 'Bama, both of which Chapman played in. Excellent fit for what NE likes to do, IMO.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    MB, you are building the kid up to levels he can't compare. If he was exactly as you said then why is he considered a round 3-4 kid? The way you make it sound he is a better prospect then Poe or Ta'amu. I like the kid but I honestly don't see more out of him then I do from Love which is a kid who will be a solid backup but not a 3 down NT. Honestly I see more from Jean-Baptiste, as far as upside, then Chapman. I love Chapman's motor, his drive, and he just doesn't give up on plays but I think I'd rather take a chance on a WR, CB, or dbl up on a DE/DT or OLB/DE with a 3rd round pick.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    RE: Harrison Smith. I think he's a top 40-50 prospect in this class with Rd 1 upside, that's my grade on him.  He's a very good, "4 down" football player, with all the intangibles and few if any real weaknesses to his game... he's also flashed some ballhawk ability and will make a good FS at the NFL level.  I think he's a better coverage player than Chung.  I think anytime you have a S on a WR, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but Smith will be good vs. TE's and RB's etc. I'm still holding out hope that NE lands one of the 'Bama kids (Barron/Upshaw/Hightower/Kirkpatrick) or Michael Brockers (potentially moving into the low 20's for any of the five) , if they don't, I do expect them to trade back and target a kid like Harrison Smith somewhere between 33 & 48 etc.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I will say if they can trade back to a 40-50 pick and get Smith then that's about where I think his value is so I wouldn't mind the pick up. At that point I'd trust that BB views him similar to how you view him but #27 or #31 is a bit high for me regarding Smith.

    With news about McClellins previous concussions I have moved him out and moved Upshaw into my top 3 LB's to take in the 1st and top 5 players to take in the 1st as a whole. Though I'd like a LB with more ability to drop back into coverage taking Upshaw at #27 or #31 would make me pretty excited as well. Right now Brockers is my #1, then Branch, Perry, and Upshaw all kind share #2 and Curry brings up #5 with Reyes as #6 (only because I think Wolfe is just as good of an option in the back of the 2nd)

    I would also say Barron but imo he goes in the top 15 and I think his talent is really in the 20-30 range. Considering it would take both 1st to move up to a top 15 pick I don't think Barron's value is worth that much. I would rather trade one of those picks back to the 40-50 range and try to get Smith or the better option imo would be to trade one of the firsts for a 1st from a fringe playoff team next year targeting a more talented S draft next year and draft Josh Robinson or Hosley this year and move McCourty to FS at least for next year

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Barron doesn't get past BUF at 11 and MIA could take him at 8.  If you are these teams, you try to figure out how to stop the Pats and Gronk.  Gronk absolutely lit up BUF last year.  In his two games he was 15/217/2.  Against the Dolphins he was a more modest 13/164/1.  I'm not sold on MIA taking Tannehill.

    We already know DAL will take Barron if he's there at 14.  So, let's forget about him.  No way we are moving up that high plus I just heard SD wants him bad, probably to deal with Manning coming to the division.  We know SD will fly up boards when it falls in love with a player. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I'm with you on Smith. I like the kid but he's being elevated to a late 1st rounder when I think he's more like a Chung which would be a mid-late 2nd round talent. A kid who will be a solid starter and make few mistakes but I just don't see a pro-bowler in Smith and that's what I'm looking for in the 1st, a potential pro-bowler. I wouldn't reach for him either. I'd rather try to convert a CB to FS and get an extra 1st round pick for next year, where it's a much deeper and talented draft in terms of S. With Wolfe, the guy is up to 295lbs and might still be able to add another 5-10lbs, so I think he is 34 DE size right now with someone like Nin behind him, who can set the edge.
    Posted by PatsEng


    Smith reminds me of Rodney Harrison.  He just makes plays, he tackles, he hits and he leads.  Read the below then disagree, oh and Rodney was a 5th round pick...

    College career

    Harrison played college football at Western Illinois University from 1991 to 1993. He is the school's record-holder for tackles in a career (345) and tackles in a game (28). As a freshman, Harrison was a second-team All-Gateway Football Conference before being named a first-team All-Gateway pick as a sophomore and junior. The Associated Press also named him a second-team All-American as a sophomore and a first-team All-American as a junior.

    Professional career

    San Diego Chargers

    Harrison was drafted in the fifth round of the 1994 draft, (145th overall) by the San Diego Chargers, the same year they made their only Super Bowl (Super Bowl XXIX) to date, which they lost to the San Francisco 49ers. Harrison became a starting member of the Chargers' 1996 defense, going to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers in 1998 and 2001. He set then-career highs with the Chargers in 2000 with 127 tackles and six interceptions; in 2002 he started 13 games and recorded 88 tackles in his final season with the Chargers.

    New England Patriots

    2003

    Following the 2002 season, on February 27, 2003, Harrison was released by the Chargers. Two weeks later, on March 13, Harrison landed with the Patriots, signing a six-year deal. At the time, the Patriots had both Harrison and fellow Pro Bowl safety Lawyer Milloy under contract. However, throughout the offseason the Patriots and Milloy were involved in contract negotiations, with the Patriots requesting Milloy take a pay cut or be released. Milloy did not comply, and on September 2, he was released.Prior to the 2003 season, Harrison was named a defensive captain in his first year with the Patriots by his teammates.On January 10, 2004 in the divisional playoff game against the Tennessee Titans, he intercepted Steve McNair, which set up Antowain Smith's touchdown, as New England would hold on for a 17–14 win. In the AFC Championship Game the next week against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning in the end zone and forced a Marvin Harrison fumble recovered by teammate Tyrone Poole. Harrison then went on to help New England Patriots win their second title in three years, against the Carolina Panthers in Super Bowl XXXVIII, 32–29. He fractured his right arm late in the game, but a Tom Brady-led drive and Adam Vinatieri field goal secured the Patriots' victory. In his tenth year in the league, Harrison earned his first Super Bowl ring.Harrison was also named to the Associated Press' All-Pro team following a 140-tackle (a 2003 NFL best for a defensive back) and three-sack season in which he started all 16 regular season games.

    2004

    The 2004 season produced a similar performance from the ex-Charger. Harrison helped New England's defense finish second in the NFL in scoring for 2004. For the second straight season, Harrison's 138 tackles led all defensive backs in the NFL. Harrison also started all sixteen regular season games for the sixth time in his career, holding together a Patriots secondary that was without Ty Law and Tyrone Poole for the majority of the season.In the Patriots' divisional playoff game against the Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning late in the game to end the Colts' last chance. The next week in the AFC Championship, Harrison jumped a Ben Roethlisberger pass and took it 87 yards for a touchdown, helping the Patriots defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers, 41–27. During the week leading up to the Super Bowl, Harrison got into a verbal feud with Philadelphia Eagles receiver Freddie Mitchell after Mitchell claimed he "had something for Harrison" and did not know the names of the New England secondary.[3] Harrison, in Super Bowl XXXIX, would record seven tackles, a sack, and two interceptions of quarterback Donovan McNabb, despite missing almost an entire quarter due to an injury sustained during the game. The second interception, with ten seconds remaining in the game, preserved a 24–21 Patriot win, ensuring a third championship in four years.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : MB, you are building the kid up to levels he can't compare. If he was exactly as you said then why is he considered a round 3-4 kid? The way you make it sound he is a better prospect then Poe or Ta'amu. I like the kid but I honestly don't see more out of him then I do from Love which is a kid who will be a solid backup but not a 3 down NT. Honestly I see more from Jean-Baptiste, as far as upside, then Chapman. I love Chapman's motor, his drive, and he just doesn't give up on plays but I think I'd rather take a chance on a WR, CB, or dbl up on a DE/DT or OLB/DE with a 3rd round pick.
    Posted by PatsEng



    Not sure what you're talking about PE, kids a Rd 3-4 kid on my board. All I've said to this point is that he's a solid run defender that does well what he's asked to do and projects well to NE's scheme, in response to your post about him under performing.  I haven't referred to him as an elite talent or as a consistent 3 down player or as having big upside or as a kid that should up good sack #'s or as a kid with elite measurables or athleticism, etc.

    Kid's prob closer to a solid Top 100 player if he didn't blow out his ACL/meniscus which eventually resulted in surgery, causing him to miss the Senior Bowl/Combine.  Pure 34 NT's have plenty of value at the NFL level.

    You're putting words in my mouth on the Poe/Ta'amu comment, so not sure what to tell you there.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Smith reminds me of Rodney Harrison.  He just makes plays, he tackles, he hits and he leads.  Read the below then disagree, oh and Rodney was a 5th round pick... Rodney Harrison played college football at Western Illinois University from 1991 to 1993. He is the school's record-holder for tackles in a career (345) and tackles in a game (28). As a freshman, Harrison was a second-team All- Gateway Football Conference before being named a first-team All-Gateway pick as a sophomore and junior. The Associated Press also named him a second-team All-American as a sophomore and a first-team All-American as a junior. Professional career San Diego Chargers Harrison was drafted in the fifth round of the 1994 draft , (145th overall) by the San Diego Chargers , the same year they made their only Super Bowl ( Super Bowl XXIX ) to date, which they lost to the San Francisco 49ers . Harrison became a starting member of the Chargers' 1996 defense, going to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers in 1998 and 2001 . He set then-career highs with the Chargers in 2000 with 127 tackles and six interceptions; in 2002 he started 13 games and recorded 88 tackles in his final season with the Chargers.
    Posted by Faucetman

    Faucet - I love Smith's intelligence and his ability to tackle and hit hard but there are very few I would compare to Harrison. However, it does point out what I thought of Smith, a better S closer to the line and in the box then asking him to cover intermediate to deep parts of the field in the typical FS role BB used Slater, Moore, and McCourty in last year.

    With Harrison being drafted in the 5th, every so often a pro-bowler is taken later then the 3rd round. Usually 1 player every 1-2 years. There have been a number of S's since Harrison has left the game that people have tried to compare to him and disappeared. Not saying Smith will disappear but I think it's more likely Smith is going to be a solid better then average S over his career (trust me that by itself is more then worth a 2nd round pick) with maybe a couple of pro-bowls but he has a way to go before reaching the level Harrison reached

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Not sure what you're talking about PE, kids a Rd 3-4 kid on my board. All I've said to this point is that he's a solid run defender that does well what he's asked to do and projects well to NE's scheme, in response to your post about him under performing.  I haven't referred to him as an elite talent or as a consistent 3 down player or as having big upside or as a kid that should up good sack #'s or as a kid with elite measurables or athleticism, etc. Kid's prob closer to a solid Top 100 player if he didn't blow out his ACL/meniscus which eventually resulted in surgery, causing him to miss the Senior Bowl/Combine.  Pure 34 NT's have plenty of value at the NFL level. You're putting words in my mouth on the Poe/Ta'amu comment, so not sure what to tell you there.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    Well this is closer to how I view him and what I stated but look at what you wrote for a moment. It's typically what you hear coming out of a description of a 1st round pick scouting report or a 3 down player scouting report. Top 100 sounds about right, though until they know how is knee is going to react after surgery I might drop him to a top 125 player. Thankfully his a smaller NT which should help him in his recovery. Typically the larger the body the harder it is for knees to recover

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I will say if they can trade back to a 40-50 pick and get Smith then that's about where I think his value is so I wouldn't mind the pick up. At that point I'd trust that BB views him similar to how you view him but #27 or #31 is a bit high for me regarding Smith. With news about McClellins previous concussions I have moved him out and moved Upshaw into my top 3 LB's to take in the 1st and top 5 players to take in the 1st as a whole. Though I'd like a LB with more ability to drop back into coverage taking Upshaw at #27 or #31 would make me pretty excited as well. Right now Brockers is my #1, then Branch, Perry, and Upshaw all kind share #2 and Curry brings up #5 with Reyes as #6 (only because I think Wolfe is just as good of an option in the back of the 2nd) I would also say Barron but imo he goes in the top 15 and I think his talent is really in the 20-30 range. Considering it would take both 1st to move up to a top 15 pick I don't think Barron's value is worth that much. I would rather trade one of those picks back to the 40-50 range and try to get Smith or the better option imo would be to trade one of the firsts for a 1st from a fringe playoff team next year targeting a more talented S draft next year and draft Josh Robinson or Hosley this year and move McCourty to FS at least for next year
    Posted by PatsEng


    I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue.

    I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis, McClellin then Irvin. Without concussion issues, I'd prob reverse Lewis and McClellin.

    As far as DE/OLB conversions, it's prob Perry, Curry, Jones then Branch for me, in that order.

    I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Faucet - I love Smith's intelligence and his ability to tackle and hit hard but there are very few I would compare to Harrison. However, it does point out what I thought of Smith, a better S closer to the line and in the box then asking him to cover intermediate to deep parts of the field in the typical FS role BB used Slater, Moore, and McCourty in last year. With Harrison being drafted in the 5th, every so often a pro-bowler is taken later then the 3rd round. Usually 1 player every 1-2 years. There have been a number of S's since Harrison has left the game that people have tried to compare to him and disappeared. Not saying Smith will disappear but I think it's more likely Smith is going to be a solid better then average S over his career (trust me that by itself is more then worth a 2nd round pick) with maybe a couple of pro-bowls but he has a way to go before reaching the level Harrison reached
    Posted by PatsEng

    I think Smith will be a better cover S than Barron.  That's a bold statement but when I watched him at the Combine coming out of his back pedal opening his hips and turning, he was smoother than a lot of the corners I saw.  I'm not saying he'll make a great FS and I agree he's probably a better SS but we need help back there bad and Smith to me is better than any of the other options we have and more ready to step and contribute. 

    I think Smith has the intangibles that will allow him to succeed.  The man skipped Spring Break to stay home and study film for God's sake.  Who does that in college?  Harrison Smith has the work ethic and heart of a young Tom Brady.  I firmly believe in him and will not be surprised to see him do better than Barron over the course of his career.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue. I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis.  I see don't see BB touching a DE/OLB conversion in Rd 1, but if Perry, Curry or Branch were sliding a bit in Rd 2, I'd interested, in that order. Of that that overall grouping, I'd have them Upshaw, Hightower, Perry, Lewis, Curry then Branch. I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    Haha.  Dude, Kraft needs to let us shop for some groceries, LOL.

    Upshaw is dropping like a rock and I think he could fall right into our laps.  Teams are worried about his short arms and lack of size and where he'll play.  Heck, he's a football player.  He could be the next Marvin Harrison.  Will be interesting to see if PIT takes him and passes on Hightower since he totally fits their style.  

    How would we all feel about Hightower/Smith for our first two picks? 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer


    Haven't seen it yet but knew it was released.  He was talking up Chandler Jones big time on Path to the Draft tonight.  I can see MIA taking Barron and doubt he gets past BUF.  Teams in the AFC East have one thing on their mind, how to beat TB and the Pats.  Slowing down Gronk/Hern and the boys are job #1.  That's why BUF signed Mario Williams.  I'm telling ya, we are in the Jets, Dolphins and Bill's minds so bad messin' with their heads that their entire draft and thought process is based on how to beat us. 

    I think MIA takes Floyd or Barron and would be shocked if they don't take one of them.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Haha.  Dude, Kraft needs to let us shop for some groceries, LOL. Upshaw is dropping like a rock and I think he could fall right into our laps.  Teams are worried about his short arms and lack of size and where he'll play.  Heck, he's a football player.  He could be the next Marvin Harrison.  Will be interesting to see if PIT takes him and passes on Hightower since he totally fits their style.   How would we all feel about Hightower/Smith for our first two picks? 
    Posted by Faucetman


    Looks like you were able to comment on my post as I was editing it ha, slight revisions above.

    I've seen a lot of Upshaw tape and I'm of the thought that the "falling" rumors are being started by a team that would love him to fall to them (i.e. NE)... this kid is, as you put it a (heckuva) football player.  He's up to 3rd on my board (I took Cox off, don't see anychance of him being around or within range.

    I'd be stoked to land Hightower and Smith in Rd 1 assuming thats how the draft unfolds.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue. I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis.  I see don't see BB touching a DE/OLB conversion in Rd 1, but if Perry, Curry or Branch were sliding a bit in Rd 2, I'd interested, in that order. Of that that overall grouping, I'd have them Upshaw, Hightower, Perry, Lewis, Curry then Branch. I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I have no doubt about Upshaws pass rushing ability. Lining him up as a 43 DE or a 34 rushing OLB I think he'll excel. I just wonder with Nin on one side and Upshaw on the other and Spikes in the middle is Mayo going to cover the entire box by himself? LB's in coverage was a large issue last year so unless they dbl up on OLB's and get a coverage OLB in the 3rd or 4th (Kendricks, Bradham, Wagner, Acho) I'm not sure if Upshaw can fill that role.

    Hightower to me is very similar to Mayo. Someone who's more then solid up the middle, can cover provide it's not longer for then 4-5s, and can get to the QB at a variaty of position. I'm just not sure if he can be an every down OLB in a 34 and I don't think he can be a 43 DE. To me he's more of a 34 ILB/43 OLB where he can use his high intelligence to break plays down, read, and react(something I think is one of his strengths). If we didn't have Spikes or Mayo, Hightower would be my hands down pick but since we do have Spikes and Mayo I'd rather have a Perry, Curry, Branch, Upshaw type who are more natural OLB/DE edge rushing types

    Lewis is interesting to me. He has interesting size where he wouldn't be out of place as a OLB in either a 34 or 43 system. He can drop back and might be the best coverage LB you mentioned but he's also the smallest. He might be more of a OLB/ILB like Hightower

    If I had to group them I would say the best pure edge rushers would be Upshaw and Curry. Good edge rushers with ability to cover would be Perry and Branch (based on film and fluidity of drills I've seen), and the pure LB's would be Hightower and Lewis.

    So I guess it's what you are looking for. If you don't think BB wants a convert LB then Hightower or Lewis would be the choice. If you are looking for the best pass rusher possible then Upshaw or Curry becomes the choice. If you want good pass rushing ability with average to better then average coverage ability then you are looking at Perry or Branch 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Chandler Jones @9the best player in the draft is shocking to me. I didn't think Jones would go in the 1st round.

    Back to youtube.


    Have you guys seen Mayock's Top 100 list on nfl.com?  Pretty interesting.  He has Chandler Jones as the ninth ranked player overall, and McClellin at 14.  Harrison Smith is at 28 vs. Barron at 7.  I have quite a bit of respect for Mayock's opinions and analysis, so I found this interesting.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    Chandler Jones @9the best player in the draft is shocking to me. I didn't think Jones would go in the 1st round. Back to youtube.
    Posted by pats-fan-2007



    well that's the problem right. to us, youtube = game tape, actually, game tapes. i am with you. i just was not impressed based on what i saw on youtube. but of course we are amateurs with less video to go by.

    to be honest, i have a few that i hope bb would not take, but if he does, i would trust he saw something i did not. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    would you guys be willing to pay for end zone view videos? i wish nfl would offer to stream that for a fee. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Seattle, I'd pony up some minor bucks for some better video.

    A player that has stood out in the youtube is Lavonte David, LB Nebraska.

    Very quick, fast and instinctive. But may not be big enough to play LB.

    Can he become that hybrid LB/Safety?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    One guy that we haven't discussed much, who I think has a very good chance of being drafted by NE in the 3rd or 4th round, is Jaye Howard, DT Florida.  He excells as a run-stuffer, but has the skills to get into the backfield.  Also, BB likes his Florida guys...
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    1 st round (27) Whitney Mercilus*, DE/OLB, Illinois Height: 6-4. Weight: 261. 40 Time: 4.63. 10-Yd Split: 1.56. Bench: 27. Vertical: 32. Broad: 9-10. Arm: 33 7/8. Projected Round (2012): 1. 1 st round (31) Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford Height: 6-6. Weight: 247. Projected 40 Time: 4.71. Bench: 27. Arm: 27. Hand: 10. Projected Round (2012): 1-2. 2 nd round (48 from Oakland) Kendall Reyes, DE/DT, Connecticut Height: 6-4. Weight: 299. 40 Time: 4.79. Bench: 36. Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 9-5. Arm: 33 1/4. Hand: 9 1/2. Projected Round (2012): 1-2. 2 nd round (62) Trade for 3 rd , 4 th , 5 th , 6 th , round pick 276 points= 3 rd ~150, 4 th ~80, 5 th ~35, 6 th ~21   for a total of ~286 3 rd from trade George Iloka, S, Boise State Height: 6-4. Weight: 225. 40 Time: 4.59. Bench: 20. Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 10-4. Arm: 34 1/2. Hand: 9 5/8. Projected Round (2012): 3-4. 3 rd pick 93 Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati Height: 5-10. Weight: 197. 40 Time: 4.41. 10-Yd Split: 1.50 Vertical: 33. Broad: 9-8. Arm: 31. Hand: 8 5/8. Projected Round (2012): 3-4. 4 th round pick (126) Jake Bequette, DE/OLB, Arkansas Height: 6-5. Weight: 275. 40 Time: 4.78. 10-Yd Split: 1.72. Vertical: 34. Broad: 9-5. Arm: 32. Hand: 9 1/4. Projected Round (2012): 4. 4 th round (from trade) Kashif Moore, WR, U Conneticut Height: 5-9. Weight: 194. 40 Time: 4.41. Vertical: 43.5. Projected Round (2012): 4-5. 5 th round from trade Coryell Judie, CB, Texas A&M Height: 6-0. Weight: 194. 40 Time: 4.44. 10-Yd Split: 1.51. Vertical: 37. Broad: 10-6. Arm: 30 1/4. Projected Round (2012): 4-5. 6 th round (from trade) Ryan Miller, G, Colorado Height: 6-7. Weight: 321. 40 Time: 5.27. Bench: 32. Arm: 33 1/8. Projected Round (2012): 6 7 th round (trade for with philly) Louis Nzegwu, DE/OLB, Wisconsin Height: 6-4. Weight: 253. 40 Time: 4.54. Bench: 22. Arm: 33 3/4. 41.5” vertical jump! Projected Round (2012): 7-FA
    Posted by natesubs


    i like the top half
    dontr knwo many of the rest well.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    I'm going to tweak my previous mock with just a few days left till the draft.  #11 (From KC) Mark Barron  Safety  Bama   BB sends picks 31, 62, and Backup QB Brian Hoyer to KC in order to grab the best Safety in this draft, and probably the best Safety prospect since Eric Berry.  Having Barron paired with Chung gives NE arguably the best young Safety tamdem in the NFL.  This is a bold move by BB, but the new rookie salary cap makes it much more practical. NE also gets KC's 6th rounder back in this deal. #37 (From Clev)  Alshon Jeffery WR South Carolina  This pick could be the "steal of the draft."  Last September, going into the 2011 CFB season, Jeffery was a consensus Top 10 pick, with many experts predicting him to come off the board ahead of Blackmon. Through the season, S. Car suffered from terrible QB play, consequently limiting Jeffery's opportuinites. Then his off-season was marred by rumored weight fluxuation, although he was in good shape at the combine.  Bottom line is that Jeffery is an elite pass catcher. No one in this draft goes up and gets it better than Jeffery, and while he isn't a blazer, he has good speed and has shown the ability to get open on the perimeter against SEC defenses. Cleveland sends NE pick #37 & a 2013 2nd in exchange for #27, where they select QB Brandon Weeden. #51 (From Philly)  Derek Wolfe  DE/DT Cinncy.  PatsEng has been right about this guy all along.  He will be an effective 3-4 DE in NE's defense.  Terriffic motor, great awareness, and above average pass-rush potential for his size.  He has also bulked up close to 300 lbs.  He's been mentioned as a late first rounder, but I think that he ultimately comes off the board mid-second round.  BB keeps the annual trade streak with Andy Reid alive here, as Philly jumps up to grab Bobby Wagner, giving NE this pick (51), and a 2013 5th. #93 Josh Chapman DT Bama. I think this could be a classic BB "plan for the future" value pick. I think Chapman is an under-rated prospect in this class. He looks like he could fit perfectly as a NT in a 3-4, and I believe NE could draft him with the idea that he could be the replacement for Wilfork when the sad day comes when Big Vince hangs it up. Love the value here. #126  Oliver Vernon OLB/DE Miami    From a pure talent stand-point, Vernon is among the best 3-4 OLB in this draft.  He has explosive pass rush ability and has shown the willingness and ability to play in coverage. Just a tremendous all-around athlete. So why is he still on the board in the 4th round? He is pretty raw, and was involved in the player payment scandal at The U. Questionable charater, but worth the gamble here. 6th round (From KC) Tom Compton OT South Dakota 6'6" OT who has pretty good footwork. Fits the mold for what BB like in OTs as far as size. Pretty raw coming from a small program, but Scar could coach this guy up really well.  Likely a Practice Squad kid to begin with, but likely would develop into a valuable reserve OT with Light gone and Vollmer's back a constant worry.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer



    helluva draft.
    jeffery puts it over the top.
    i dont know that barron is worth 2 #s
    but you seem to make it work with the whole draft you got.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I too have dropped McClellin to the Rd 2-3 range... concussions are a serious issue. I have Upshaw as my #1 LB, followed by Hightower and then prob Ronnell Lewis, McClellin then Irvin. Without concussion issues, I'd prob reverse Lewis and McClellin. As far as DE/OLB conversions, it's prob Perry, Curry, Jones then Branch for me, in that order. I'm with you on Brockers, have him 2nd on my board behind Barron, but would be fVcken jacked to hear his name call on draft day.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    the severity of the concussion is the issue. i had more than a handful and had no effect short or longterm.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!":
    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Haven't seen it yet but knew it was released.  He was talking up Chandler Jones big time on Path to the Draft tonight.  I can see MIA taking Barron and doubt he gets past BUF.  Teams in the AFC East have one thing on their mind, how to beat TB and the Pats.  Slowing down Gronk/Hern and the boys are job #1.  That's why BUF signed Mario Williams.  I'm telling ya, we are in the Jets, Dolphins and Bill's minds so bad messin' with their heads that their entire draft and thought process is based on how to beat us.  I think MIA takes Floyd or Barron and would be shocked if they don't take one of them. Posted by Faucetman
    I'm not sure what Mayock sees in chandler jones, especially rating him so high. He might have potential like a JPP, but he is far from finished. If he could develop into a JPPntype player and Mayock sees this, thus rating him so high, then I can agree..I just dont see him like this today. Teams in the AFC east should take a page from the giants play book on stopping brady and our o. Based on what buffalo has done via the draft and FA, they could be a very good defense next year, and put pressure on brady limiting his time to dissect.
     
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