***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Hey MB,

    Thanks for the feed back.

    With regards to the OL. I do feel they see Cannon as a longer term T then G but that could change if Vollmers back heals completely. Either way I see Cannon as an eventual starter somewhere on the line (whether at G or T). As for the G position they brought Gallery in as an additional option for this year, they are also apparently high on McDonald and even Wendell got a couple of starts and performed well. With Koppen back I can see them kicking Connolly to G in an emergency so I don't see the need this year. I think they have built up great depth through versatile lineman this year (Cannon, Gallery, Wendell, McDonald, Connolly). Now that said I can see them going after a project G on day 3 but I can't see them going early on one. More then likely I see them going after a UDFA that can be groomed on the PS this year and moved into a rotational sub role next year.

    With regards to RB. Yeah I thought they might grab a vet too, but with the FB pickups it's leading me to believe they might go a heavier set and let the younger legs work behind a blocker. Both Vereen and Ridley have shown good vision (when they were on the field) and both can make quick cuts depending on blockers so I can actually see more I formations and using the FB as that larger vet role that you talked about. The biggest thing I look at is that if you bring in a vet you are either going to get a third rate vet who doesn't mind sharing reps with 3 other players (Vereen, Woodhead, Ridley) or your going to hinder you younger guys by giving larger amounts of reps to an aging vet who will demand a large role to sign. Lets face it, any load carrying RB won't want to come to a team to split carries between 3 other backs and if you are looking at day 3 for a RB then is it really better then what you already have?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Alright my good fellows. With a week and half until the draft I think it might be time to break down the positions and determine what could have room to add players through the draft. Offense: TE - Gronk, Hern, Fells: The Pats run a 2 TE set which means you typically want 3 starting caliber TE's to run the offense. Gronk and Fells certainly fill the prototypical TE role while Hern plays more of a H-Back type of role. They could still add an additional TE and move Hern to a RB/WR role but I don't see that happening given the other acquisitions this off-season. Diagnosis, all set in the TE position WR - Welker, Lloyd, Gonz, Branch, Stallworth, Slater, Edelman, Ocho: They made a lot of moves this off-season. Slater is an obvious #6 WR for ST with Lloyd and Welker making the team. This year they can go 7 WR's if they only carry 4 RB's instead of 5 or they can stick with their typical 6 WR's. I still have a gut feeling giving the age and question marks of the acquisitions this year they will get a WR late day 2 early day 3. It might be a STer who will primarily be a return man but I can see it happenings. One person I've been high on as a return man (Rainey), might be an ideal conversion type from RB to slot WR long term. He's about Welker size with good hands and is deadly with space. He might be a shocker convert WR none of us expected. Diagnosis 1 WR drafted RB - Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Larsen, Fiametta: I might be in the minority here but I see the acquisition of a blocking FB as a sign that they will put their faith in the young guys. That the extra lead blocker is meant to give them a little more support that vets don't typically need. With Hern as a 5th RB I don't see them going after a RB persay in this draft unless it's as a returner or can work out of the slot. Rainey could be that kid providing additional depth as a 6th RB, 5/7th WR, and primary return man while only taking up 1 spot. Diagnosis, all set at RB position OL - Mankins, Light, Waters, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Koppen, Connolly, Wendell, McDanold, Gallery, Thomas: Typically the Pats only travel with 8-9 OL and 1-2 in reserve, that doesn't leave much room to add players given who they currently have, even if Light retires. How I see it breaking down is T's - Solder/Vollmer, T/G's - Cannon/Gallery, G's - Waters/Mankins, G/C - McDonald, C's Connolly/Koppen traveling with Thomas in reserve and Wendell if he can make it to PS. Diagnosis, all set on OL QB - Brady, Mallett, Hoyer: They will carry 3 if need be but I also see them trying to trade Hoyer on draft day (KC, Browns?). Diagnosis, all set at QB So on O I can see 1 possible draft pick spent, mainly for a return man that adds flexibility depth or can be a long term starter on O. I'm really starting to convince myself Rainey is that man. He is a quality return man that can add depth to the RB core without taking an additional spot on the roster and has the potential to develop into a speedy slot WR with good burst and great vision in the open field Defense: DB - McCourty, Arrington, Ras, Brown, Chung, Gregory, Moore, Williams, Allen, Cole: I grouped them all together because depending on how they feel about McCourty will determine how they might approach the draft. If they view McCourty as a CB then the CB core might be alright without drafting an additional player but the S core will need some help, if they view McCourty as a FS then they might not need to draft a S but will need to find a replacement for the CB core. Diagnosis they will draft 1-2 DB's in the draft LB - Mayo, Fletcher, Tarp, Nin, Niko, Cunningham, Spikes, White, Carter, Carpenter, Scott: It's a lot of names but not many starters. The ILB looks solid without the addition of another body but there still is a hole on the edge rushing position. Diagnosis, at least 1 edge rusher DL - Wilfork, Pryor, Deadrick, Love, Brace, Fenena, Silvestro, Harrison: Other then Wilfork all the other players will need to prove they can handle a full time starting job. Deadrick, Love, Brace to me all look like backups and rotational type of players with Fenena being a possibility to be a full time starter. They need to get some consistency in their pass rush and help with the run up the middle. I expect Carter to be back but it's still unsure what he can provide. Diagnosis, at least 1 interior DL So, given the current roster I see us targeting at least 1 return man (WR or RB/WR), 1-2 DB's, 1 edge rushing LB, and 1 interior DL. That's 4-5picks with 6 picks in hand. Of course BB will trade and we'll most likely end up with more then 6 picks total but I also see them dbling up at a couple positions on the D side (namely in the front 7) But given so few major holes on the team right now I can also envision them actually making some moves up to get players they really want 
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Timely and excellent post PatsEng. 

    I agree with 99% of what you have here. 

    At the WR position, given Welker's situation is fluid, and the lack of a proven product on the roster outside of Welker and Branch and to a degree Stallworth, I might look to take a WR earlier if one slips like MB indicated in Alshon Jeffrey. If this kid is still hanging around end of round 2, he would be my pick at 62. This would be an excellent value pick at a position we need to develop, and there is no knowing how the various WR acquisitions will perform this year. 

    Outside of WR, if we have 4-5 spots on the roster to fill, I would like to see them made on the defense. I think doubling up on the DL, possibly LB or CB/S. All the guys you mention on the DL less Wilfork, Fanene (not including Carter) are depth players. 2 DL (One 4-3 DE/DT, and One 3-4 DE/DT) would seem to fit the bill. Wolfe & Martin, Still & Thompson, Wolfe & Winn, etc. I think there are any number of combinations depending upon who is on the board & who the Pats value most at a given spot. 

    I would love to land Gilmore or another top rated CB at the end of round 1 at 27 if possible. If not, and we decide to keep McCourty at CB, I would prefer we wait until round 2 and grab Brandon Taylor (S) from LSU over Harrison Smith. Sorry MB..didn't mean to diss your ND kid, I like him, but I think Taylor, based on where he can be had, presents better value & a similar skill set. I also think Taylor is flying a bit under the radar right now.


    1a. Gilmore / Still 
    2a. Still / Wolfe
    2b. Curry / Jeffrey 
    2c. Jeffrey / Taylor
    3a. Martin / Winn / Crick 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I'm not fond of either Smith or Taylor at this point. Both are good players but both (like Chung) and hybrid SS/FS players. Personally given this league is turning into a pass happy league I'm looking for more of a FS/CB combo. Almost having 3 CB's on the field at all times. Just one that might not be as fluid but is stronger and a little bigger to play the field. Barron might be that type of player but I don't see him making out of the top 20. I'm looking more at conversion types of DB's at this point. Dennard, Iloka, T Johnson, Fletcher, Bethel.

    On an unrelated note couple things I've been hearing.

    Car wants out of the #9 pick. Given if Ingram was available at that point would you trade #27 and #63 and maybe a 4th or 5th next year to move up and grab Ingram?

    Chi apparently loves Brockers at #19, so that's where his train might stop. Would it be worth trading up to the top 18 to grab Brockers before Chi gets a chance at him? or is it not worth the risk and hold back for Reyes at #27/31 or Wolfe/Martin in the 2nd?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!


    Definitely open and like the idea of drafting a bigger corner to play in the safety spot. This is why I was high on Gillmore. I think Denard could be that guy as well, same with Trumain Johnson. 

    If Carolina was willing to trade us #9, I would have to seriously think about who I would take in that spot, or who is worthy there. I like Ingram, but do we want someone with more length? What about Brockers? is this too high for him? 
    I think Ingram would fill the OLB pass rushing threat we need and have needed badly. Question is, how much better is he than say Perry or Curry or others that can be had at the bottom of the round or in round 2?


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Timely and excellent post PatsEng.  I agree with 99% of what you have here.  At the WR position, given Welker's situation is fluid, and the lack of a proven product on the roster outside of Welker and Branch and to a degree Stallworth, I might look to take a WR earlier if one slips like MB indicated in Alshon Jeffrey. If this kid is still hanging around end of round 2, he would be my pick at 62. This would be an excellent value pick at a position we need to develop, and there is no knowing how the various WR acquisitions will perform this year.  Outside of WR, if we have 4-5 spots on the roster to fill, I would like to see them made on the defense. I think doubling up on the DL, possibly LB or CB/S. All the guys you mention on the DL less Wilfork, Fanene (not including Carter) are depth players. 2 DL (One 4-3 DE/DT, and One 3-4 DE/DT) would seem to fit the bill. Wolfe & Martin, Still & Thompson, Wolfe & Winn, etc. I think there are any number of combinations depending upon who is on the board & who the Pats value most at a given spot.  I would love to land Gilmore or another top rated CB at the end of round 1 at 27 if possible. If not, and we decide to keep McCourty at CB, I would prefer we wait until round 2 and grab Brandon Taylor (S) from LSU over Harrison Smith. Sorry MB..didn't mean to diss your ND kid, I like him, but I think Taylor, based on where he can be had, presents better value & a similar skill set. I also think Taylor is flying a bit under the radar right now. 1a. Gilmore / Still  2a. Still / Wolfe 2b. Curry / Jeffrey  2c. Jeffrey / Taylor 3a. Martin / Winn / Crick 
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    PL,
    I'm not at all opposed to Taylor, have moved him up to Rd 4 on my board, could see him as an option in Rd 3 come draft day but I think Rd 2 is too high for him at this point.  If they miss out on Barron/Smith, I'd love to see Taylor late on Day 2 or early on Day 3.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Any chance that David DeCastro makes it to 27? He is by far my favorite prospect in the draft and even though OL is not the Pats #1 need positionally, it is the most important position organizationally. Keeping Brady upright and the offense functional is key to winning and the offensive line has many question marks despite performing so well last year. Solder-concussions, Vollmer-back, Light-retirement, Waters-retirement, Mankins-injury, Koppen-injury, Cannon-injury/inexperience/position?, etc etc. DeCastro was the most noticeable Stanford Cardinal on the field this year and I would love to see him available at 27.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Some humor for this thread, a backwards mock draft!

    Boy I would do anything for this draft to be real...
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Any chance that David DeCastro makes it to 27? He is by far my favorite prospect in the draft and even though OL is not the Pats #1 need positionally, it is the most important position organizationally. Keeping Brady upright and the offense functional is key to winning and the offensive line has many question marks despite performing so well last year. Solder-concussions, Vollmer-back, Light-retirement, Waters-retirement, Mankins-injury, Koppen-injury, Cannon-injury/inexperience/position?, etc etc. DeCastro was the most noticeable Stanford Cardinal on the field this year and I would love to see him available at 27.
    Posted by TitleTown11[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but DeCastro is a top 15 pick. Given Bengals, Steelers, Browns, Ten all could use top end OL there is no chance DeCastro makes it within 5 picks of us. I also wouldn't say Solder has concussion issues. 1 minor grade concussion doesn't constatute a trend yet. Mankins has also been very durable during his career and even played through injury this year so not sure if you'd call him injury prone. Connolly has been the starting C for almost 2 years now (with Koppens injures)

    So I don't think the OL is as bad as you think, actually with Cannon, Wendell, Thomas, Gallery, and McDonald they have versatile and deep depth along all positions.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Yeah, every mock I've seen has him in the 10-20 range. Just hoping...

    As for the condition of our offensive line, I hear what you are saying. But better to add depth than realize you don't have it at mid season. If DeCastro was on the board, he'd be the slam dunk pick for me. If not him, than defense time two in the first round of the draft.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Timely and excellent post PatsEng.  I agree with 99% of what you have here.  At the WR position, given Welker's situation is fluid, and the lack of a proven product on the roster outside of Welker and Branch and to a degree Stallworth, I might look to take a WR earlier if one slips like MB indicated in Alshon Jeffrey. If this kid is still hanging around end of round 2, he would be my pick at 62. This would be an excellent value pick at a position we need to develop, and there is no knowing how the various WR acquisitions will perform this year.  Outside of WR, if we have 4-5 spots on the roster to fill, I would like to see them made on the defense. I think doubling up on the DL, possibly LB or CB/S. All the guys you mention on the DL less Wilfork, Fanene (not including Carter) are depth players. 2 DL (One 4-3 DE/DT, and One 3-4 DE/DT) would seem to fit the bill. Wolfe & Martin, Still & Thompson, Wolfe & Winn, etc. I think there are any number of combinations depending upon who is on the board & who the Pats value most at a given spot.  I would love to land Gilmore or another top rated CB at the end of round 1 at 27 if possible. If not, and we decide to keep McCourty at CB, I would prefer we wait until round 2 and grab Brandon Taylor (S) from LSU over Harrison Smith. Sorry MB..didn't mean to diss your ND kid, I like him, but I think Taylor, based on where he can be had, presents better value & a similar skill set. I also think Taylor is flying a bit under the radar right now. 1a. Gilmore / Still  2a. Still / Wolfe 2b. Curry / Jeffrey  2c. Jeffrey / Taylor 3a. Martin / Winn / Crick 
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    i like it.  id take gilmore or jenkins. dont know about crick.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]I'm not fond of either Smith or Taylor at this point. Both are good players but both (like Chung) and hybrid SS/FS players. Personally given this league is turning into a pass happy league I'm looking for more of a FS/CB combo. Almost having 3 CB's on the field at all times. Just one that might not be as fluid but is stronger and a little bigger to play the field. Barron might be that type of player but I don't see him making out of the top 20. I'm looking more at conversion types of DB's at this point. Dennard, Iloka, T Johnson, Fletcher, Bethel. On an unrelated note couple things I've been hearing. Car wants out of the #9 pick. Given if Ingram was available at that point would you trade #27 and #63 and maybe a 4th or 5th next year to move up and grab Ingram? Chi apparently loves Brockers at #19, so that's where his train might stop. Would it be worth trading up to the top 18 to grab Brockers before Chi gets a chance at him? or is it not worth the risk and hold back for Reyes at #27/31 or Wolfe/Martin in the 2nd?
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    " Personally given this league is turning into a pass happy league I'm looking for more of a FS/CB combo. "

    completely agree; or cover safety is language i use.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, every mock I've seen has him in the 10-20 range. Just hoping... As for the condition of our offensive line, I hear what you are saying. But better to add depth than realize you don't have it at mid season. If DeCastro was on the board, he'd be the slam dunk pick for me. If not him, than defense time two in the first round of the draft.
    Posted by TitleTown11[/QUOTE]

    The way I look at it is that you can only really carry 8-9 OL on game day anyways. So when you look at it the givens are: Mankins, Cannon, Solder, Connolly, Vollmer right now, that's 5. The most likely to make the roster or not retire are: Waters, Gallery, Koppen, that's 3 more. Now they also like Wendell, Thomas, and McDonald (McDonald esp) so odds are that one of them is taken and there's you're 9 with maybe either Wendell or Thomas on the 53 but not on gameday roster. If you draft DeCastro then he's going to start and where would you put him? Would you play him over Mankins?, what if Waters doesn't retire, would you play him over Waters? He's not a T or a C so that's your two choices, would you play him over Mankins or Waters?

    I understand the want for depth but there just isn't room this year. If you are thinking about the future I'm not even sure there will be room there. I mean DeCastro was a starting LG moving him to the RG position almost seems like a waste and I feel it's dependent on Vollmers back. If Vollmers back is fine this year and he makes it through the season I see them moving Cannon to RG. Cannon to me looked like a starter and I think they feel he is a starter. They won't move him, though, until there is a spot and until they are sure Vollmer won't break down. So the question becomes what do you do with Mankins, Vollmer, Solder, and Cannon if you get DeCastro?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    So the more I think about BB's draft history the more I'm convinced that with the parameter positions (WR, DB) BB relies heavily on the 3-cone numbers. I know not a huge shock, but here are the top 10 players in cone numbers in the parameter positions (*denotes private workout, + denotes workout and visit):

    DB's:

    Josh Robinson* - 6.55
    Terrence Freddick - 6.59
    Coty Sensabaugh - 6.60
    Stephon Gilmore* - 6.61
    Harrison Smith* - 6.63
    Jeron McMillan - 6.69
    Robert Blanton - 6.71
    Jamell Fleming - 6.71
    Corey White - 6.72
    Casey Heyward* - 6.76

    WR's:

    Junior Hemingway - 6.59
    Danny Coale - 6.69
    T.J. Graham - 6.77
    Marvin Jones* - 6.81
    Jerrell Jackson - 6.82
    Kashif Moore - 6.82
    Jordan White - 6.84
    Keshawn Martin - 6.85
    Chris Owusu* - 6.85
    Stephen Hill* - 6.88

    Now, for all there picks that have run a 3 cone (so excluding Price and Tate, but you'd image they'd have good times) all were sub 6.8 and all were top 15 in their draft class in cone time. So with those givens who falls short of those marks that we've discussed?

    DB's:

    Iloka
    Taylor (worst 3 cone for S's)
    Jenkins
    Bentley

    WR's:

    Randle
    Givens
    J Wright
    McNutt (sadly worst 3 cone for WR's)
    Criner
    Quick
    Adams

    If BB holds true to his ways then you can almost instantly cross those names off your list

    One interesting note is my boy Rainey had the best 3 cone in the draft followed by Robinson. Both players have been linked to the Pats at one point or another
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    PatsEng - I liked your roster evaluation, but would add: BB really likes to 'churn' his roster - replacing back-ups who they feel have reached their ceiling with new players that may have higher upside. So ...
    O-line - we have a lot of new young talent at tackle, but OG/C starters and some back-ups are on the downside of their careers, and Wendell, Thomas, and McD haven't broken through. Not sure how the team evaluates them, but if they see a high upside/high value interior lineman available/dropping from pick 62 on I think they would pounce.
    On the RB/WR/KR - I think they could also look at a DB/KR like Boykin if the price was right - DB being a higher need position than WR/RB.
    On TE - not going to happen, but I bet BB is tempted by Fleener - think of him as a huge WR in the mold of Hern. He is as fast as a number of the large WR and probably faster than Welker. (Just a wild hare, but that would be an interesting offense!)
    On Defense:
    LB - I think we may see them take a cover linebacker - haven't really done it before, but I think they are looking at someone who can cover TE/RB and the option is big CB, cover S, or smaller faster LB. And I sure hope they find a three down OLB.
    DB - I see this as totally in flux and depending on who falls where BB may draft 2 or 3 s/cbs especially if he takes his KR from the CB/S universe. I only see Chung, Arrington, Ras, and McC as locks even with the players they brought in. Going to be an interesting camp!
    DL - also totally in flux. I expect Carter back and he, Wilfork, Love, Fanene, and probably Scott are locks. Hoping for at least one each of DT and DE and could see a doubling up if players fall right.
    So ... my thoughts:
    2-3 Dline
    1-2 LB
    2-3 Dbacks
    1 KR (CB/RB/WR)
    1 OG/C
    My board:
    LB McClellin/Brown/David/Hightower/Irvin(?)
    DL Cox/Brockers/Worthy/Branch/Curry/Wolfe/Jones
    DB Barron/Kirkpatrick/Jenkins/Smith/Taylor/Johnson/Boykin/Dennard
    OG/C Zeitler/Brooks/Brown/Molk
    Based on this, and not expecting the top end to be available at 27 or 31, If they can get value in trades, I could see them trying to stock up on 2nd/3rd rounders. I think that is where the real value of the draft resides as I think the 20-32 players mostly have the same 'grade' as the 33-62 players.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    It really would not surprise me if McCourty ended up as a passing down free safety with Sergio Brown or Steven Gregory playing the position in early downs.  With the lack of talent at the safety position in this draft these players will be over-drafted.  Barron and Smith will go higher than they ordinarily should.  It is not BB's usual method to reach for players.  There is plenty of depth at CB so it may mean drafting another one in the second round and maybe another one later.
    With McCourty and Chung at safety in the nickel or dime, the CB's would still be Dowling, Arrington, Allen, Moore, and whoever they draft.  That is pretty good depth.  
    It's just my feeling that BB will not trade up to the mid first to draft Barron (that kind of seems where he will be going now).  If he fell into the twenties I could see trading up to snag him.  Harrison Smith at 48 would be OK in my book, but I can't see reaching for him in the first.  I think he goes before 48 in the second round.  
    This all comes out to draft philosophy.  Would it be better to draft player A who you have a 10 spots higher on your draft board or draft player B who is lower on your board but fills a serious void on your roster.  The thought obviously is that A would be a better player for the course of his career than B (that's why you have him rated higher).  So long term it's better to draft A, while in the short term B may seem more attractive.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]It really would not surprise me if McCourty ended up as a passing down free safety with Sergio Brown or Steven Gregory playing the position in early downs.  With the lack of talent at the safety position in this draft these players will be over-drafted.  Barron and Smith will go higher than they ordinarily should.  It is not BB's usual method to reach for players.  There is plenty of depth at CB so it may mean drafting another one in the second round and maybe another one later. With McCourty and Chung at safety in the nickel or dime, the CB's would still be Dowling, Arrington, Allen, Moore, and whoever they draft.  That is pretty good depth.   It's just my feeling that BB will not trade up to the mid first to draft Barron (that kind of seems where he will be going now).  If he fell into the twenties I could see trading up to snag him.  Harrison Smith at 48 would be OK in my book, but I can't see reaching for him in the first.  I think he goes before 48 in the second round.   This all comes out to draft philosophy.  Would it be better to draft player A who you have a 10 spots higher on your draft board or draft player B who is lower on your board but fills a serious void on your roster.  The thought obviously is that A would be a better player for the course of his career than B (that's why you have him rated higher).  So long term it's better to draft A, while in the short term B may seem more attractive.
    Posted by paularnold[/QUOTE]

    Agree with your view of Safety - I doubt BB grades Barron as more than a mid 20s and Smith as more than a mid second round pick. At 48 smith may be a value pick. I could see them looking at the bigger corners in the second and third round as CB/FS players, or some of the lower ranked Safties in round 3 or later. Ras I was also seen as a possible S during the last draft if I remember correctly.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Poor Upshaw, caught between a rock and a hard place.

    43 teams are worried if he has the ability to rush off the edge and 34 teams are worried if he can cover. I like the kid a lot but I'd have more faith in Perry, Curry, and maybe even McClellin coming off the edge or dropping back then I do Upshaw. That's a real shame because he's a good player. If we didn't already have Mayo I would most definitely take him in the back end of the 1st, but since we do I want more of a prototypical OLB/DE

    According to Sporting News' Russ Lande, Alabama OLB/DE Courtney Upshaw will likely fall to the "20 to 40" range in the draft.

    ESPN's Todd McShay said similar things on SportsCenter Tuesday, suggesting Upshaw could fall into round two if the Patriots don't take him. Per Lande, Upshaw's stock has fallen "over concerns about his edge pass-rush ability" -- the same trait McShay cited. 3-4 teams also worry that Upshaw can't cover. Lande reports that 3-4 clubs are higher on USC's Nick Perry, Illinois' Whitney Mercilus, and South Carolina's Melvin Ingram than Upshaw.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Poor Upshaw, caught between a rock and a hard place. 43 teams are worried if he has the ability to rush off the edge and 34 teams are worried if he can cover. I like the kid a lot but I'd have more faith in Perry, Curry, and maybe even McClellin coming off the edge or dropping back then I do Upshaw. That's a real shame because he's a good player. If we didn't already have Mayo I would most definitely take him in the back end of the 1st, but since we do I want more of a prototypical OLB/DE According to Sporting News' Russ Lande, Alabama OLB/DE Courtney Upshaw will likely fall to the "20 to 40" range in the draft. ESPN's Todd McShay said similar things on SportsCenter Tuesday, suggesting Upshaw could fall into round two if the Patriots don't take him. Per Lande, Upshaw's stock has fallen "over concerns about his edge pass-rush ability" -- the same trait McShay cited. 3-4 teams also worry that Upshaw can't cover. Lande reports that 3-4 clubs are higher on USC's Nick Perry, Illinois' Whitney Mercilus, and South Carolina's Melvin Ingram than Upshaw.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Good, let him fall all the way to NE at the back end of Rd 1.

    RE: Lande's comments- (Call me skeptical due to the proximity to the draft.) Ingram has been rated higher for a while now, but I'd love to see who Whitney Mercilus is covering or where he's proved that he can play 34 OLB full-time?  Upshaw is also a much better run defender than Perry.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Matt Light to retire:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/18/source-matt-light-will-retire/

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Good, let him fall all the way to NE at the back end of Rd 1. RE: Lande's comments- (Call me skeptical due to the proximity to the draft.) Ingram has been rated higher for a while now, but I'd love to see who Whitney Mercilus is covering or where he's proved that he can play 34 OLB full-time?  Upshaw is also a much better run defender than Perry.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Totally agree.  This is a classic case of a player getting over-analyzed.  Based strictly on his game film, Upshaw is a fringe top 10 pick.  The draft process has a way of penalizing guys like Upshaw who don't have prototypical measurables for a certain position.  3 months ago it looked like Upshaw was way out of our reach, not we're talking about him in the second round?  What has he done to hurt his stock since then?  If he slides to 27, draft him.  Dude is a player.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    If Upshaw drops to the Pats he doesn't get past #27 with me.  I can't see him dropping at all and wonder where these guys get there info.  20 to 40 range, especailly the number 40 is crazy.  And just before the draft this guy doesn't have it any more? 

    Is it just me or are the Alabama players getting huge knocks?  Barron is slow, Upshaw can't cover and Hightower we don't know what he is. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]If Upshaw drops to the Pats he doesn't get past #27 with me.  I can't see him dropping at all and wonder where these guys get there info.  20 to 40 range, especailly the number 40 is crazy.  And just before the draft this guy doesn't have it any more?  Is it just me or are the Alabama players getting huge knocks?  Barron is slow, Upshaw can't cover and Hightower we don't know what he is. 
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]

    When you have a loaded D sometimes it hurts their stock instead of helping. If they all cover up each others faults and almost niche each other then it becomes inscreasing hard to judge their true talent. It's almost better to be a completely dominant player on a horrible team then a good player on a great team

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : When you have a loaded D sometimes it hurts their stock instead of helping. If they all cover up each others faults and almost niche each other then it becomes inscreasing hard to judge their true talent. It's almost better to be a completely dominant player on a horrible team then a good player on a great team
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I don't buy it.  It shows up on tape.  Players have individual responsibilities.  How do they react or read?  These Alabama players are off like a shot.  They read very well. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Below is my updated board, it's been a challenge to keep the Rd 1-4 options at a total of 40 prospects.

    Rd 1Rd 1-2Rd 2
    S- Mark  BarronDL- Kendall ReyesCB-Josh Robinson
    DL- Fletcher CoxS- Harrison SmithCB- Jayron Hosley
    DL- Michael BrockersDE/OLB- Shea McClellinWR- Alshon Jeffery
    OLB- Courtney UpshawDE/OLB- Vinny CurryWR- Mohamed Sanu
    CB- Dre KirkpatrickRB- Doug MartinOG- Amini Silatolu
    LB- Dont'a HightowerDL- Brandon ThompsonOT- Bobby Massie
    CB/S- Stephon GilmoreCB- Brandon Boykin
    Rd 2-3Rd 3Rd 3-4
    WR- Marvin JonesDE/OLB- Cam JohnsonWR- Greg Childs
    OLB- Ronnell LewisOG/OT- Senio KelemeteWR- Joe Adams
    OLB- Bruce IrvinS- George IlokaDE/OLB- Jake Bequette
    DL- Derek WolfeCB/S- Ron Brooks
    DL- Alameda Ta'amuWR- Ryan Broyles
    CB- Casey Hayward
    Rd 4Rd's 5-URFAKeeping an eye on:
    WR- Devon WylieOLB- Miles BurrisDL- Jerel Worthy
    CB- Shaun PraterOLB- Darius FlemingDL- Devon Still
    DL- Josh ChapmanOLB- Vince BrowneDL- Mike Martin
    OG- Joe LooneyOLB- Tyler NielsenDL- Billy Winn
    LB- Audie ColeDE/OLB- Brett RoyDL- Hebron Fangupo
    S- Brandon TaylorDE/OLB- Justin FrancisDE/OLB- Andre Branch
    DE/OLB- Julian Miller
    DE/OLB- Tim FuggerOLB- Bruce Irvin
    DE/OLB- Louis NzegwuLB- Nigel Bradham
    DE/OLB- Scott SolomonCB- Chase Minnifield
    DE/OLB- Jamie BlatnickCB- Leonard Johnson
    DL- Travian RoberstonCB- Janoris Jenkins
    DL- JR SweezyCB- Omar Bolden
    DL- Markus KuhnS- Markelle Martin
    DL- Matt ConrathS- Antonio Allen
    DL- Taylor ThompsonOT/OG- Jeff Allen
    DL- Dominique HamiltonOT/OG- Tony Bergstrom
    DL- Ryan Van BergenOT/OG- Brandon Washington
    DL- Ethan JohnsonOT- Zebrie Sanders
    DL- Jaye HowardOT- Mitchell Schwartz
    DL- Kheeston RandallOT- Brandon Mosley
    DL- Armond ArmsteadOG Kevin Zeitler
    LB- Noah MillerOG- Lucas Nix
    LB- Jerry FranklinC- Phillip Blake
    LB- Vontaze BurfictC- Ben Jones
    LB- Tank CarderWR- Rueben Randle
    LB- DJ HoltWR- Chris Givens
    LB- Chris GalippoWR- Jarius Wright
    LB- Nathan StuparWR- Marvin McNutt
    S- Brandon HardinWR- TY Hilton
    S- Jerron McMillianRB- Chris Polk
    S- Dequan MenzieRB- Bernard Pierce
    S- Jordan BernstineRB- Vick Ballard
    S- Matt DanielsRB- LaMichael James
    S- Sean Richardson
    S- Johnson Bademosi
    CB/S- Neiko Thorpe
    CB/S- Robert Blanton
    CB/S- Coryell Judie
    CB- Asa Jackson
    CB- Coty Sensabaugh
    OG/OT- Markus Zusevics
    OG/OT- Nate Potter
    OT/OG- Tom Compton
    OT- Andrew Datko
    OT- Bryce Harris
    OT- Donald Stephenson
    OG- Adam Gettis
    OG- Desmond Wynn
    C/OG- Quentin Saulsberry
    TE- Brad Herman
    TE- George Bryan
    TE- Chase Ford
    TE- Kevin Koger
    RB- Jonas Gray
    RB- Joe Martinek
    RB-  Robert Turbin
    RB- Michael Smith
    RB- Terrance Ganaway
    RB- Brandon Bolden
    RB- Jeremy Stewart
    RB- Davin Meggett
    WR- Danny Coale
    WR- Marquis Maze
    WR- Keyshawn Martin
    WR- TJ Graham
    WR- Kashif Moore
    WR- Chris Owusu
    WR- Aaron Pflugrad
    WR- Tyler Shoemaker
    QB- Ryan Lindley
    QB- Austin Davis
    QB- Dan Persa
    QB- John Brantley 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Matt Light to retire: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/18/source-matt-light-will-retire/
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    No surprise there.  I think he'll be like Seau, if someone gets hurt, we can bring him back for the title push.  What's the deal with Waters?  Is he for sure coming back?
     

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