***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : No surprise there.  I think he'll be like Seau, if someone gets hurt, we can bring him back for the title push.  What's the deal with Waters?  Is he for sure coming back?
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Good question on Waters and while I think Gallery provides some insurance, losing both he and Light in the same offseason may cause them to spend a day 2 pick on an OT or OG, IMO... as things stand today I think OG is already an option in that range (I like Senio Kelemete a lot in Rd 3).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Below is my updated board, it's been a challenge to keep the Rd 1-4 options at a total of 40 prospects. Rd 1 Rd 1-2 Rd 2 S- Mark   Barron DL- Kendall Reyes CB-Josh Robinson DL- Fletcher Cox S- Harrison Smith CB- Jayron Hosley DL- Michael Brockers DE/OLB- Shea McClellin WR- Alshon Jeffery OLB- Courtney Upshaw DE/OLB- Vinny Curry WR- Mohamed Sanu CB- Dre Kirkpatrick RB- Doug Martin OG- Amini Silatolu LB- Dont'a Hightower DL- Brandon Thompson OT- Bobby Massie CB/S- Stephon Gilmore CB- Brandon Boykin Rd 2-3 Rd 3 Rd 3-4 WR- Marvin Jones DE/OLB- Cam Johnson WR- Greg Childs OLB- Ronnell Lewis OG/OT- Senio Kelemete WR- Joe Adams OLB- Bruce Irvin S- George Iloka DE/OLB- Jake Bequette DL- Derek Wolfe CB/S- Ron Brooks DL- Alameda Ta'amu WR- Ryan Broyles CB- Casey Hayward Rd 4 Rd's 5-URFA Keeping an eye on: WR- Devon Wylie OLB- Miles Burris DL- Jerel Worthy CB- Shaun Prater OLB- Darius Fleming DL- Devon Still DL- Josh Chapman OLB- Vince Browne DL- Mike Martin OG- Joe Looney OLB- Tyler Nielsen DL- Billy Winn LB- Audie Cole DE/OLB- Brett Roy DL- Hebron Fangupo S- Brandon Taylor DE/OLB- Justin Francis DE/OLB- Andre Branch DE/OLB- Julian Miller DE/OLB- Tim Fugger OLB- Bruce Irvin DE/OLB- Louis Nzegwu LB- Nigel Bradham DE/OLB- Scott Solomon CB- Chase Minnifield DE/OLB- Jamie Blatnick CB- Leonard Johnson DL- Travian Roberston CB- Janoris Jenkins DL- JR Sweezy CB- Omar Bolden DL- Markus Kuhn S- Markelle Martin DL- Matt Conrath S- Antonio Allen DL- Taylor Thompson OT/OG- Jeff Allen DL- Dominique Hamilton OT/OG- Tony Bergstrom DL- Ryan Van Bergen OT/OG- Brandon Washington DL- Ethan Johnson OT- Zebrie Sanders DL- Jaye Howard OT- Mitchell Schwartz DL- Kheeston Randall OT- Brandon Mosley DL- Armond Armstead OG Kevin Zeitler LB- Noah Miller OG- Lucas Nix LB- Jerry Franklin C- Phillip Blake LB- Vontaze Burfict C- Ben Jones LB- Tank Carder WR- Rueben Randle LB- DJ Holt WR- Chris Givens LB- Chris Galippo WR- Jarius Wright LB- Nathan Stupar WR- Marvin McNutt S- Brandon Hardin WR- TY Hilton S- Jerron McMillian RB- Chris Polk S- Dequan Menzie RB- Bernard Pierce S- Jordan Bernstine RB- Vick Ballard S- Matt Daniels RB- LaMichael James S- Sean Richardson S- Johnson Bademosi CB/S- Neiko Thorpe CB/S- Robert Blanton CB/S- Coryell Judie CB- Asa Jackson CB- Coty Sensabaugh OG/OT- Markus Zusevics OG/OT- Nate Potter OT/OG- Tom Compton OT- Andrew Datko OT- Bryce Harris OT- Donald Stephenson OG- Adam Gettis OG- Desmond Wynn C/OG- Quentin Saulsberry TE- Brad Herman TE- George Bryan TE- Chase Ford TE- Kevin Koger RB- Jonas Gray RB- Joe Martinek RB-   Robert Turbin RB- Michael Smith RB- Terrance Ganaway RB- Brandon Bolden RB- Jeremy Stewart RB- Davin Meggett WR- Danny Coale WR- Marquis Maze WR- Keyshawn Martin WR- TJ Graham WR- Kashif Moore WR- Chris Owusu WR- Aaron Pflugrad WR- Tyler Shoemaker QB- Ryan Lindley QB- Austin Davis QB- Dan Persa QB- John Brantley  
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Vince Brown  OLB   rd5/ URA,... any possibility he would be as good as Vincent Brown of the 80s . Possible kid.. bio says hes a son, Vincent 111?  I think his nickname was  Dr Death?, the Undertaker?
    Actually he was a bit overrated and I think Chris Slade  was underated
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Vince Brown  OLB   rd5/ URA,... any possibility he would be as good as Vincent Brown of the 80s . Possible kid.. bio says hes a son, Vincent 111?  I think his nickname was  Dr Death?, the Undertaker? Actually he was a bit overrated and I think Chris Slade  was underated
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    mg,
    Don't think he's Vincent's son, different spelling of the last name and he's white.  Good length and motor and you have to be wicked smaht to go to Northwestern, which I think could appeal to BB.  I prob should've listed him as a DE/OLB vs just an OLB.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : mg, Don't think he's Vincent's son, different spelling of the last name and he's white.  Good length and motor and you have to be wicked smaht to go to Northwestern, which I think could appeal to BB.  I prob should've listed him as a DE/OLB vs just an OLB.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    My bad , I overlooked the  'e' .
    but it goes to show that I review and respect all your projections!

    What about Davin Megget  any blood lines there
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Below is my updated board, it's been a challenge to keep the Rd 1-4 options at a total of 40 prospects.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I like your board a lot - just curious why you don't have Trumaine Johnson there in the 2/3 range? I think I like him more than Iloku.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : My bad , I overlooked the  'e' . but it goes to show that I review and respect all your projections! What about Davin Megget  any blood lines there
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    Thanks man, appreciated.

    Yes, Davin is David's son, which I think could have some appeal to BB.  Doesn't really excel at anything, but is a tough kid that plays hard and has some solid football character.  Seems to have some Benny traits.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I like your board a lot - just curious why you don't have Trumaine Johnson there in the 2/3 range? I think I like him more than Iloku.
    Posted by mia76[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, man.

    Wasn't too impressed with Johnson's tackling in the tape I saw and there are questions about his attitude and off-field conduct.  Has very good size and natural ability, I just like the other DB's on my board better.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    are we there yet?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]So the more I think about BB's draft history the more I'm convinced that with the parameter positions (WR, DB) BB relies heavily on the 3-cone numbers. I know not a huge shock, but here are the top 10 players in cone numbers in the parameter positions (*denotes private workout, + denotes workout and visit): DB's: Josh Robinson* - 6.55 Terrence Freddick - 6.59 Coty Sensabaugh - 6.60 Stephon Gilmore* - 6.61 Harrison Smith* - 6.63 Jeron McMillan - 6.69 Robert Blanton - 6.71 Jamell Fleming - 6.71 Corey White - 6.72 Casey Heyward* - 6.76 WR's: Junior Hemingway - 6.59 Danny Coale - 6.69 T.J. Graham - 6.77 Marvin Jones* - 6.81 Jerrell Jackson - 6.82 Kashif Moore - 6.82 Jordan White - 6.84 Keshawn Martin - 6.85 Chris Owusu* - 6.85 Stephen Hill* - 6.88 Now, for all there picks that have run a 3 cone (so excluding Price and Tate, but you'd image they'd have good times) all were sub 6.8 and all were top 15 in their draft class in cone time. So with those givens who falls short of those marks that we've discussed? DB's: Iloka Taylor (worst 3 cone for S's) Jenkins Bentley WR's: Randle Givens J Wright McNutt (sadly worst 3 cone for WR's) Criner Quick Adams If BB holds true to his ways then you can almost instantly cross those names off your list One interesting note is my boy Rainey had the best 3 cone in the draft followed by Robinson. Both players have been linked to the Pats at one point or another
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    i ddint see kirpatrick on either list?

    i have hemingway as a sleeper, also have  coale and hill on my list

    i think gilmore will be long gone at 27
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : i ddint see kirpatrick on either list? i have hemingway as a sleeper, also have  coale and hill on my list i think gilmore will be long gone at 27
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]

    Well with Kirkpatrick he's not in the top 10 list but he's not at the bottom of the list either. He's kind of in the middle
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Ok lets hear you top 3 wish list in wach position that the Pats most likely will pick. The positions I'm looking at are WR, CB, DE/DT, OLB/DE, everything else, S (for S I include CB conversions). You can list any players, for myself I'm only listing players I think will be available where the Pats actually pick and in the order I'd want them. Lets see if BB takes a single player from anyones list

    WR:

    Marvin McNutt
    Marvin Jones
    T.Y. HIlton

    CB:

    Josh Robinson
    Dwight Bentley
    Brandon Boykin

    S:

    Alfonzo Dennard
    Trumaine Johnson
    DeQuan Menzie

    OLB/DE:


    Vinny Curry
    Shea McClellin
    Courtney Upshaw

    (up next - Nick Perry, Andre Branch)

    DE/DT:

    Derek Wolfe (I honestly think this kid is going to be something special)
    Kendell Reyes
    Devon Still

    (I left Brockers and Cox off the list as I think they will be long gone)

    Everything else:

    Chris Rainey RB/KR/WR (this kid is the do all I want, the next Faulk as it were)
    David Molk C (sized up a bit now he's about Koppens size, tremendous strength)
    Brandon Brooks G/T (watch out for this kid, this is the small school sleeper Scar loves to find)
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    You know, the more I look at the list of pre-draft visits and the more I look into Ron Brooks the more I'm thinking this will be the CB/FS that BB might target for the FS position. Buried under a ton of talent at LSU he apparently improved every year. He isn't the best slot guy but is physical at the line and is steadily improving in zone coverages. He still bits on PA, which isn't good but is something he can learn to avoid with more playing time. This kid is lighting quick which gives him great side line to side capabilities. It is important to note his short shuttle time stunk and he's not the most fluid player which only enhances the view of him converting to FS as a roamer in zone
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    One week until the draft!

    Can one of you start a new draft thread next Thursday, where you guys have a running commentary on picks/trades/etc?

    Thank you all for your knowledgable thoughts and insight on prospective Patriots' draftees!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]You know, the more I look at the list of pre-draft visits and the more I look into Ron Brooks the more I'm thinking this will be the CB/FS that BB might target for the FS position. Buried under a ton of talent at LSU he apparently improved every year. He isn't the best slot guy but is physical at the line and is steadily improving in zone coverages. He still bits on PA, which isn't good but is something he can learn to avoid with more playing time. This kid is lighting quick which gives him great side line to side capabilities. It is important to note his short shuttle time stunk and he's not the most fluid player which only enhances the view of him converting to FS as a roamer in zone
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    This kid's been my super sleeper since before the Combine, though he's worked his way from late rounder to prob Rd 3-4 kid, which is where I think BB could target him.  Kid made a lot of plays at LSU and is very effective as a blitzer.

    I would still like them to pickup one of the top safeties in Rd 1/2, but I love adding this kid later on Day 2/early Day 3 as well.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Ok, Eng.  I'll give it a shot.

    WR:  Late 2nd Rnd & Beyond

    Brian Quick
    Marvin McNutt
    TY Hilton

    CB:  Mid 2nd Rnd & Beyond

    Jayron Hosley
    Brandon Boykin
    Janoris Jenkins  (Yeah, if he falls to 48 I'd take a chance...)

    S:  Late 3rd Rnd & beyond.  Unlike many, I believe there will be quality safetys available in 3rd.  Here are a few examples...

    Ron Brooks
    Brandon Taylor
    Markell Martin    (I'd like to see them take best-available S in 3rd rnd.)

    OLB/DE:  First Round to mid 2nd

    Courtney Upshaw
    Chandler Jones  (I'm starting to buy the hype.)
    Oliver Vernon

    DE/DT: First Rnd to Late 2nd

    Devon Still
    Kendall Reyes
    Derek Wolfe
    Jaye Howard

    Everything Else:

    Chris Rainey  (Agree on this guy, Eng.  Would be a dangerous weapon.)
    Bobby Massie  (upon news of Light's retirement, would be a high-upside project)
    Bobby Wagner (a talented LB who can play in coverage is also needed)

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I just can't buy into the Jones hype right now. He's an extremely raw prospect that had a relatively weak combine and doesn't have the sustained production in college to really overlook his combine numbers. I understand this past year that he had some great numbers over a 7 game stretch but his numbers were average the year before and again I have to go back to what I saw at the combine which was an average-good prospect at best. The biggest issues he has is that he has two moves to get to the QB. He either tries to speed around the edge or uses great pad leverage in a bull rush but he doesn't have any developed grip, rip, or dip moves if he gets engaged. I might take a pass on this guy and go for a little more developed player like an Upshaw, Perry, Curry, Branch, or McClellin (even with concussion issues). Heck, even though I think Jones might have more upside I'd be willing to take a flyer with Cam Johnson  first because Johnson has more and better developed pass rushing moves
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Never going to happen, but how about a blockbuster trade with Philly
    From Philly: 15, 46, 51
    From Pats: 27, 31, 48, 93
    Points come out about right and if BB saw Cox or Ingram at 15 he might be tempted

    It would leave us with
    15, 46, 51, 62, 126
    If Cox the rest might be:
    46: Upshaw/Jones/Curry/McClellin whichever DE/OLB was available
    51: Jenkins/Smith/T.Johnson/Robinson/Boykin
    62: Double up at DLine or DB or best Oline
    126: Double up with DLine or DB or best OLine or KR.

    If it was Ingram the only change would be at some point taking
    Reyes/Still/Thompson/Wolfe
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Never going to happen, but how about a blockbuster trade with Philly From Philly: 15, 46, 51 From Pats: 27, 31, 48, 93 Points come out about right and if BB saw Cox or Ingram at 15 he might be tempted It would leave us with 15, 46, 51, 62, 126 If Cox the rest might be: 46: Upshaw/Jones/Curry/McClellin whichever DE/OLB was available 51: Jenkins/Smith/T.Johnson/Robinson/Boykin 62: Double up at DLine or DB or best Oline 126: Double up with DLine or DB or best OLine or KR. If it was Ingram the only change would be at some point taking Reyes/Still/Thompson/Wolfe
    Posted by mia76[/QUOTE]

    That would be a blockbuster trade. One I would be very happy with because we could target any number of players with #15. I think we would have to consider Barron at 15 then, as well as Brockers, Ingram, etc. if they are around. 

    IF that trade went down (fun to imagine) I would have to take Barron at 15. 
    My list would go something like this based on your scenario
    #15 > Barron
    #46 > McClellin or Curry
    #51 > Wolfe
    #62 > Hosley or Robinson
    #126 > ?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Guys, sorry I haven't keep up with everyone's post, been crazy busy lately.  Heard that McClellin has had 3 concussions in college.  That's a big red flag!!  I don't know if I would draft him now until perhaps late 2nd and that assumes a good medical report.  Concussions ended Mike Wright, Ted Johnson and many other careers.

    Mb, I love the work you've done on your board.  I think it clear that unless we are planning a big move up (which I doubt), the top 3 guys plus Gilmore will be long gone.  I strongly believe that PIT will take Hightower at 24.  If they don't he becomes a solid option at 27.  But if Kirkpatrick and Upshaw are also both there it becomes a tough call, IMO.  We need secondary help so bad that I think Kirkpatrick would be too tempting not to take at this point.

    However, my sleeper pick remains Harrison Smith and you have him there in the 1-2 round.  I strongly feel that our hole at FS is so big and obvious that to have a chance to fill it and pass would be a mistake unless BB feels he can get him at 31 or a little later on with a trade back.  I don't know that I'd chance it.  I don't want to convert McCourty to FS, and I don't want to use slot receivers as nickel backs.  I prefer to draft a S to play FS and I think Smith can do that and start from Day 1.

    As for your other 1-2 round guys, I like them all but feel that BB is all about value.  We know this.  Therefore I don't see a lot of separation between Reyes and some of the guys that could be had later like Wolfe and Randall.  I also don't see a lot of separation between Thompson, Ta'amu and Martin.  We blew a high 2nd on that bum Ron Brace and unless he emerges healthy and in beast mode, he could be cut.  So, if we can't get one of the elites, Cox or Brockers, I think we should hold off on DL until at least 62 and possibly later if we move back from 62.  I love Martin and Wolfe as much as all the guys rated higher except Cox and Brockers.

    Curry is an interesting cat but he's probably just a 43 DE.  I don't see him standing up.  With Trevor Scott in the fold and Andre Carter probably coming back after he clears medically, I don't see a lot of need at rush DE if that player is only a rush DE which I think Curry is.  I would love to see us draft a guy who can play both 34 OLB and 43 DE.  Ninko is not the answer.  Upshaw could be as could Branch along with a guy you don't have on your list in Chandler Jones.

    I love Doug Martin, late 1st, early 2nd if we trade back.  I don't think both FBs we brought in will stick.  They do the same things so I think we see who is best in camp and the other gets cut.  This leaves us with 4 RBs and Vereen hasn't been healthy.  I think Doug Martin is a work horse who is excellent as a receiver.  So if we are looking at the draft as a way to improve immediately, I think Martin can come in and contribute right away and may even beat out Ridley as our #1 back.  So for me, that's great value late 1st, early 2nd.

    I don't see us touching a WR early if at all.  We'd have to cut 2 to make room for 1 and that's assuming we count Slater as a DB.  Like others, I do think if we can get a slot guy who is excellent in the return game, we might just do that.  I love Ryan Broyles because he is a stud who represents value who we could tuck away on the PUP to start the year as insurance.  I also like Adams, Hilton and Wright later on and I think LaMicheal James could also be an X-factor player who can run, play a little slot and be a beast in the return game.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!


    PatsEng...in response to your wish list request....

    WR:
    Alshon Jeffrey (if he slips into mid-round 2)
    Marvin Jones
    T.Y. HIlton 

    CB:
    Josh Robinson
    Hosley
    Brandon Boykin

    S:
    Alfonzo Dennard
    Markelle Martin
    Brandon Taylor


    OLB/DE:

    Shea McClellin
    Vinny Curry
    Ronnell Lewis



    DE/DT:
    Derek Wolfe 
    Devon Still
    Billy Winn
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    As most know my early comments were based mostly on reading consensus and I had not seen much video of most players.

    I have now had an opportunity to watch a bit more now on some players and here are some thoughts for what ever it's worth.

    * I was very disappointed watching Trumaine Johnson. I did not see anything I read about him in the film clips I watched other than he is big. His coverage is eh and I don't think he can tackle that great.

    * Harrison smith, I think he covers better than he tackles so not sure why people think of him as a strong safety over a free safety.

    * Barron looks light years better than Smith to me and if the Pats have no plans to move McCourtey and draft CB's then I would seriously considered trading up for Barron if he gets close.

    * Andre Branch and Bruce Irvin are the two most explosive pass rushers I've watched so far. Are they the best all around probably not but they seem the most over all athletic to me that I have watched. I have not watched Ronnell or McClellin yet. If the Pats want a specialist those two seem best suited for it. I would take either of them as a pass rusher over Upshaw, Curry, Mercilus, or Jones. Those guys all seem better against the run though especially as DE's so depends on what NE is looking for.

    * I like Mohammed Sanu a lot.

    * I love David Wilson. Best I've seen since LeSean McCoy. Incredible balance and can make something out of nothing all on his own. The remaining three that are also impressive are Doug Martin, Chris Polk, and Chris Rainey. Polk has that same funny running style as Roy Helu who I liked alot last year but doesn't have that elite quickness Helu had. Polk does a very good job setting up his blocks and has excellent vision though.

    * I think Cricks pectoral injury has caused him to be underrated. He's relentless and always in the back field and chasing guys down from all over the field. Plus he doesn't fall into the Patriot 300lb range but he's a player.

    * In watching film on Andre Branch I think the whole clemson line stood out and Brandon Thompson caught my eye as well.

    * There are a lot of receivers that look good like every year and I think it's very difficult to evaluate them in the college game.

    * Its also very difficult to evaluate the CB's using the youtube video clips cause you can not often see them with enough regularity for the entirety of the plays.

    * The only video of linemen I have really watch was the one of silatolu where he was rag-dolling defenders left and right and obviously we all thought or found that impressive.

    * Not sure I ever saw Brockers get washed away in any play no matter a double or triple team. Cox however needs to be taught how to anchor. More pass rush push but can be completely blown away on a double team. Still seems a lil bit of a combination of the two.

    * OK just watched some McClellin. Well rounded. The best thing is that he is used to being lined up and playing all over the place. He does try to be a bit too clever at times on the outside taking an inside rush even though there is no stunt on and giving up outside containment but over all he's always around the ball and working hard.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I know my BB Blockbuster is a crazy idea, but ... in thinking about the moves we have made in FA - we now have a signed roster of 73 or 74 (we just signed that kicker for camp work.) If we bring back Carter, we only have 5 or 6 spots on the 80 man roster!!! Looking at that, I could actually believe BB is only looking to draft 3 or 4 players and sign some FAs after the draft. With six current picks and if he is only drafting 3 to 4 players - he either has to convert picks to next year or expend picks to trade up. We already have 20 players signed that will get cut before the season and every pick adds another player to that list. At this point I could actually believe BB is looking seriously at Barron, Cox, Ingram, Brockers, Kirkpatrick, Gilmore as targets for a trade up anywhere after #10 using any combination of current picks depending on how low he goes. I could then see him tageting one player somewhere in the second round and one or two in the third/fourth and coming away with 1 or 2 picks for 2013.
    If this idea has some validity - I think the needs are a 3/4 OLB, a 3/4 DE and some sort of DB help - if he goes with 4 picks double up on one of the first three or add an Oline or KR player.
    27, 31, 48, and 62 could yield a pick in the teens, a pick between 31-48, and probably a projected late #1 or early #2 in 2013. Picks 93 and 126 might stick or he could move forward a little in the third round or get a 2013 projected late #2 or early #3 and one of the current picks in 2012.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    BB's approach to the draft is all about value.  I know this is a phase we all hear repeatedly, but do we truly understand what that means?  I may not fully understand it either but I think it means that BB will take the players at the optimal spot in the draft based on the "value" they represent where chosen. 

    Each draft is different.  Values are also determined by our team needs and on needs of other teams.  Values are also greatly determined by the depth of talent at each position.  For instance, this is a weak class for QBs, TEs, ILBs and S.  Therefore this drives the value up for these players.  The class is deep at WR, OT, DT, DE, OLB and CB.  This drives the values of these players down.  More on this in a moment.  

    Here is a true and important statistic, and I love statistics.  As a background, data is everything to me!!!!  An important quote I once heard is, "A man without data is just another a** hole with an opinion."  (A professor shared that quote once and I use it often.  It is not meant as an insult to anyone on here with an opinion because we all have them).  The important statistic is that a player drafted next at the same position has a 50/50 chance to be better than the player drafted ahead of him.  This is based on the last 40 years of draft history.  If we know and accept this, and we study other team needs and understand the depth of each position, we can better navigate through the draft and select based on "value."

    According to CBS Sports, and you can use any draft site and come to a very similar result, the top 64 players (first 2 rounds) by positional depth are as follows:

    Offense (31):

    QB: 4
    WR: 8
    RB: 6
    OT: 7
    C/G: 4
    TE: 2

    Defense (33):

    DT:  7
    DE:  8
    OLB: 7
    ILB: 2
    CB:  8
    S:   2

    This tells us clearly that if you want a good S or TE you better move fast.  I'm not saying there will be any TEs taken in the first round or that both S will go in round 1.  I'm just saying teams with those needs better act fast because the "value" of these 4 players is high.  Whereas if you need a WR, DE or CB you can wait and address those needs later because there are 8 players in these positions rated in the first two rounds. 

    This is why I think although Harrison Smith is probably a mid 2nd round talent, his value pushes him up to late 1st, early 2nd.  So if we need a S (and we do), we shouldn't feel bad about taking him at 27 or 31 because that is where his value is, this year, in this class.  With BAL at 29 needed a S, it's a gamble to pass on him at 27 hoping Konz or Hightower slip to 29 and have BAL take one of them instead. 

    This is also why I'm not getting caught up in all this talk about taking a rush DE/OLB or DT early.  There is "value" later on.  We don't need to spend a 1-2 round pick at WR, or DE either.  There is "value" later on.  So, when arguably our top need is S, we should draft Harrison Smith at 27, not mess around and turn in the card.  We can then trade 31 back as we all know BB will do, and find value in the 2nd or 3rd rounds at DT, WR, DE, OLB etc.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In response to "Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!": [QUOTE]BB's approach to the draft is all about value.  I know this is a phase we all hear repeatedly, but do we truly understand what that means?  I may not fully understand it either but I think it means that BB will take the players at the optimal spot in the draft based on the "value" they represent where chosen.  Each draft is different.  Values are also determined by our team needs and on needs of other teams.  Values are also greatly determined by the depth of talent at each position.  For instance, this is a weak class for QBs, TEs, ILBs and S.  Therefore this drives the value up for these players.  The class is deep at WR, OT, DT, DE, OLB and CB.  This drives the values of these players down.  More on this in a moment.   Here is a true and important statistic, and I love statistics.  As a background, data is everything to me!!!!  An important quote I once heard is, "A man without data is just another a** hole with an opinion."  (A professor shared that quote once and I use it often.  It is not meant as an insult to anyone on here with an opinion because we all have them).  The important statistic is that a player drafted next at the same position has a 50/50 chance to be better than the player drafted ahead of him.   This is based on the last 40 years of draft history.  If we know and accept this, and we study other team needs and understand the depth of each position, we can better navigate through the draft and select based on "value." According to CBS Sports, and you can use any draft site and come to a very similar result, the top 64 players (first 2 rounds) by positional depth are as follows: Offense (31): QB: 4 WR: 8 RB: 6 OT: 7 C/G: 4 TE: 2 Defense (33): DT:  7 DE:  8 OLB: 7 ILB: 2 CB:  8 S:   2 This tells us clearly that if you want a good S or TE you better move fast.  I'm not saying there will be any TEs taken in the first round or that both S will go in round 1.  I'm just saying teams with those needs better act fast because the "value" of these 4 players is high.  Whereas if you need a WR, DE or CB you can wait and address those needs later because there are 8 players in these positions rated in the first two rounds.  This is why I think although Harrison Smith is probably a mid 2nd round talent, his value pushes him up to late 1st, early 2nd.  So if we need a S (and we do), we shouldn't feel bad about taking him at 27 or 31 because that is where his value is, this year, in this class.  With BAL at 29 needed a S, it's a gamble to pass on him at 27 hoping Konz or Hightower slip to 29 and have BAL take one of them instead.  This is also why I'm not getting caught up in all this talk about taking a rush DE/OLB or DT early.  There is "value" later on.  We don't need to spend a 1-2 round pick at WR, or DE either.  There is "value" later on.  So, when arguably our top need is S, we should draft Harrison Smith at 27, not mess around and turn in the card.  We can then trade 31 back as we all know BB will do, and find value in the 2nd or 3rd rounds at DT, WR, DE, OLB etc. Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    That is one of the best posts I have ever read! Superb !!
     

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