***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : that defensive depth chart does not inspire confidence in me that they will play much better than last year. let me start at DL. i did not like love on 43 dt assignment i do not like fanene on 34 de neither of the DEs on the depth chart is a true 43 DE. sure you can plug in nink or cunningham, i just do not consider either one of them as starter quality 43 DE. bottomline, i'd prefer they draft DL upgrade in the form of someone who can play 43DE/34DT or better yet someone who can play either on 34 - reyes or thompson are my choices.  and faucet, if they pick poe at 27, i will trust that bb saw something in him. let me shift to LB. you have them set up for 43. if that is the direction they go, i'd prefer a quicker mlb than spikes. he's great against the run, but his lack of quickness will be a liability against a good passing attack. then there is the issue of that LB corps not being built to go 34. assuming nink keeps improving, i would not feel confident about depending on cunningham opposite nink. they need one more anderson/carter type player or better. corner? i can't believe i will say this but we'll have to wait and see what dmc and rasi bring next year. safety? any safety crew that gives s brown a chance to step on the field is a big problem to me.  crowded or not, faucet, they need players who will push the bar at the starting spots. my baseball analogy to the situation is a team with many starters but none of the starters is a bona fide #1 or #2. they need to draft starting talent, not depth fillers.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    Yeah, I hear you.  I'm not all gaga about what they brought in defensively.  I do think Andre Carter will be back once he clears medically but the guy turns 84 soon.  

    This is why this draft needs to be all about defense.  We've talked about this before.  Perhaps we should package our pair of firsts and seconds and try to go up and get Brockers and Barron.  I'm not sure we have enough ammo to do it, but depending how things unfold, I would spend those 4 picks to get those 2 players.  Using the old draft value chart:

    31+48+62=10 We'd have to deal with BUF but could get Brockers there then use 27 on Harrison Smith.  We simply must land Barron or Smith.  If we don't we are going to suffer through another year of crappy secondary play and watching teams convert 3rd and 18s all year long.

    A lot of the writers on BDC and even Reiss are talking about trading up to land a couple of impact players.  But BB philosophy has always been about value and not falling in love with a specific player.  Until I see him vary from that formula, I think we need to stay with who could be in range where we are and trading down.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    If Brockers gets past Tennessee at #20, I think it is realistic that NE will move up for him.  I think they would definitally need to get ahead of Denver at 25.  I think Detroit at 23 would be a likely trade partner, as I had in my recently posted mock.  It is beginning to look unlikely that Brockers will even last until 20, however, as Philly, SD, Chi, and Tenn have all been rumored to have serious interest in him.  If Brockers is gone, and none of the consensus Top 20 guys slip to #27, then I would actually be okay with trading back into the early 2nd round with both 27 & 31.  I simply don't love the talent projected to be available late in the first this year.  One thing to remember, however, is that it takes two to tango.  There will have to be a team or teams really wanting to get a player in the late 1st round, and I don't know how many teams will be chomping at the bit to get any of these guys this year.  Maybe Clevland will make a bold move for Weeden...  Harrison Smith wouldn't disappoint me too bad with #27 due to the need at Safety, but I really view him as more of a second round talent. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : No prob! I actually had meant to comment on the Chapman pick as well. He's an under the radar guy that makes a ton of sense in NE... I've had him on my board for a long time and he'll finish as a Rd 3-4 kid projection for me.  Kid isn't tall (shade under 6-1), but plays between 315-320, has enourmous hands (11 1/8) and is very tough to move off the ball... would be an excellent 2-gap space eater for them and is proven as a BB style 34 NT (could also play alongside VW inside in 43) and at the hightest level of college FB... love the pick.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I'm not overly convinced with Chapman truthfully. Given the level of talent around him he greatly under performed imo. He reminds me of Brace playing next to Raji. I don't think he'll be nearly as good without having the talent around him

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Interesting report from Reiss. This tells me a couple of thing

    1) They have a list of players they might be targeting but won't jump up large in order to get one. The reason being that they have targeted 5-6 players that could fall in the 20+ pick range. Though it also tells me that if a player gets within reach they might move up for them

    2) They are primarily focused on D first and foremost

    Now, with Jones I can't see it being anything more then a smoke screen if realized. He's to raw, lack of production, and doesn't have a great burst/fluidity to fit what they typically look for in a OLB/DE

    Though I hear what people are saying about Smith he's just to much like Chung for me to consider as a coverage FS

    Here's the report:

    "ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss feels that Alabama S Mark Barron is atop the Patriots' list as a first-round possibility.
    Reiss also lists LSU DL Michael Brockers, Syracuse DE Chandler Jones, Alabama DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw, Boise State OLB Shea McClellin, and Notre Dame S Harrison Smith as possibilities. Barron won't make it all the way to the Patriots at pick No. 27, but Reiss suggests they could trade up to the 10-to-13 range. If not, two or three of the other names on Reiss' list should be available. Rotoworld's Evan Silva has New England taking McClellin in his latest mock draft."
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In assessing team needs at 28, 29 and 30 GB needs safety help.  Charlie Peprah was torched on a weekly basis and Nick Collins' career could be over.  We already discussed BAL needing to find Ed Reed's replacement soon but they would probably take Konz as a more immediate need.  Still, the risk is too great to pass on Smith at 27 hoping he slips through to 31 so I still think we take him.

    27.  S Harrison Smith - Notre Dame

    It's taking me awhile to warm up to Kendall Reyes at 31 because his production wasn't especially impressive against so-so competition.  However, as a 5 technique he will be asked to occupy blockers allowing the LBs to make plays.  Reyes is one of the more athletic guys at the Combine for his size and could develop into something special in time.

    31.  DT Kendall Reyes - UCONN

    We need a pass rusher.  With the loss of Mark Anderson's 10 sacks and possibly loss of Andre Carter's 10 sacks I'm not comfortable that Trevor Scott can get us more than 5 assuming he stays healthy.  We will likely switch back and forth between 3 and 4 man fronts and Vinny Curry to me is a perfect situational pass rusher who may even be able to stand up a little.  With SD on the clock with the next pick, they are a threat to take Curry even with their recent signing of Jarrett Johnson, who is not a pass rusher.

    48.  DE/OLB Vinny Curry  - Marshall

    There is no way we keep both fullbacks as they are too similar and would only fill a situational role on the team and not expected to get many carries.  Woodhead's production was way off last year plus he becomes a F/A after this season.  Vereen hasn't shown he can stay healthy.  40% of our carries from last year went out the door with BJGE and Faulk.  Ridley projects as the starter but if he continues to put the ball on the ground he could quickly find his way to the bench.  I expect Doug Martin to be gone at this point but one of Wilson, Miller and probably LaMichael James will be there at 62.  James is by far the most prolific and most versatile runner of the three as he led the nation with 1,805 rushing yards at an impressive 7.31 average.  James can also return punts which gives him value on special teams.  James was 3rd in the nation with all purpose yards with 2,175 with 210 receiving yards.  James reminds of Darren Sproles so SD could be looking at him before this point but if he makes it here, he could be an electric player making our offense even more lethal.  If he's gone, either Wilson or Miller would fill the need.

    62.  LaMichael James - Oregon

    With Barrett, Brown and Chung all set to become free agents after 2012 and knowing that Steven Gregory is a long shot to start, let alone make the team, a second pick at safety keeps the trend of taking multiple high picks at positions of need going.  In 2011 we took a pair of RBs and in 2010 a pair of TEs, so with our need so big, it makes sense to do it at safety this year.  Taylor is a 3 year starter at SS in one of the elite SEC programs.  He's essentially a box safety who tackles and hits.  He reads and reacts well.  He's a former team captain and would be a steady back-up to the oft injured Chung allowing us to leave Smith at FS should Chung go down again.

    93.  SS Brandon Taylor - LSU

    The Patriots ranked 19th in the kick off return yards last year.  Their leading return man, Danny Woodhead ranked 33rd.  The Pats also have major question marks at slot receiver after this season with Welker likely to move to greener pastures and Edelman set to become a free agent.  TY Hilton fills both of these needs.  Hilton ranked 8th in the NCAA in kick off return average at 18/548, a 30.44 average.  As a receiver he collected 72/1,038/7.  He also has 4.37 speed.  The concern with Hilton is durability, otherwise he'd be a solid 2nd round pick.  If we get him in the weight room and use him only in the return game for one season, hopefully he can add enough bulk to assume some slot duties in 2013 and beyond.

    126. WR TY Hilton

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Faucetman - interesting draft. I would say:
    1. Edelman and Woodhead will not command much on the FA market so keeping them would be relatively easy.
    2. We just signed an injury prone slot with good speed so not sure BB will be all that excited about adding another 'durability' issue.
    3. BB relying on a backfield of 2 second year guys and a rookie is not likely, so if we add another back it will likely be one of the cheap veteran FA we just brought in for workouts or a late preseason cut, unless there is a huge value proposition later in the draft.
    I will be really surprised if we draft an offensive skill guy that is not at least one round later than he has been projected. So say Martin at 62 or Alshon/Sanu at 93 sort of thing. I would not be as surprised at an OL guy at relatively standard value.
    I think doubling up at any of the defensive positions is quite possible or going S/CB so what you have at safety makes sense to me - or Reyes/Wolfe, or Curry/Irvin, etc.

    On the Hoyer trade value discussed elsewhere - I could see a team like Denver who could definitely use an upgraded back-up listening to a #31/Hoyer for #25 swap or something similar to convert 62 to an earlier second rounder and adding in some late round picks. Straight up trade I just don't see anyone paying more than a fourth at most more likely a fifth. He is on a one year contract, so a team taking him either has to work out an extension or is just renting him for a year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomkyan. Show tomkyan's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : Yeah, I hear you.  I'm not all gaga about what they brought in defensively.  I do think Andre Carter will be back once he clears medically but the guy turns 84 soon.   This is why this draft needs to be all about defense.  We've talked about this before.  Perhaps we should package our pair of firsts and seconds and try to go up and get Brockers and Barron.  I'm not sure we have enough ammo to do it, but depending how things unfold, I would spend those 4 picks to get those 2 players.  Using the old draft value chart: 31+48+62=10 We'd have to deal with BUF but could get Brockers there then use 27 on Harrison Smith.  We simply must land Barron or Smith.  If we don't we are going to suffer through another year of crappy secondary play and watching teams convert 3rd and 18s all year long. A lot of the writers on BDC and even Reiss are talking about trading up to land a couple of impact players.  But BB philosophy has always been about value and not falling in love with a specific player.  Until I see him vary from that formula, I think we need to stay with who could be in range where we are and trading down.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    We could trade with the Chiefs as Pioli and Crennel are both there, maybe 31+48+Hoyer or 27+48+4th rd pick. Or we could deal with Arizona, trade 31+48
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : MB-  Thanks man!  I don't disagree with you about the 2nd rnd WRs.  I would indeed take Sanu & Jeffery over Quick (probably Randle too, although I've cooled off on him a bit.)  I opperating under the assumption that those 3 were all gone, and that the run on WRs allows a few guys like Boykin & Chapman to slip a bit.  Good call, though.  Jeffery would be my favorite of the 3 that you mentioned, but I kind of feel like he will go pretty early in the second.  Just too much talent and great film for him to slide too far, IMO.  Sanu's stock seems to be on the rise too.  I'd be suprised if he's there at 48.  Quick is a real sleeper for me.  He is not nearly as polished as some of the other guys, but I really feel like he will be a star in the NFL.
    Posted by WazzuWheatfarmer[/QUOTE]\

    totally agree with you on where jeffery and sanu go.
    though i value moving up for a spectacular player over pciking avg players at position of need.

    trade up from 48 and get jeffery!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Interesting report from Reiss. This tells me a couple of thing 1) They have a list of players they might be targeting but won't jump up large in order to get one. The reason being that they have targeted 5-6 players that could fall in the 20+ pick range. Though it also tells me that if a player gets within reach they might move up for them 2) They are primarily focused on D first and foremost Now, with Jones I can't see it being anything more then a smoke screen if realized. He's to raw, lack of production, and doesn't have a great burst/fluidity to fit what they typically look for in a OLB/DE Though I hear what people are saying about Smith he's just to much like Chung for me to consider as a coverage FS Here's the report: " ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss feels that Alabama S Mark Barron is atop the Patriots' list as a first-round possibility. Reiss also lists LSU DL Michael Brockers, Syracuse DE Chandler Jones, Alabama DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw, Boise State OLB Shea McClellin, and Notre Dame S Harrison Smith as possibilities. Barron won't make it all the way to the Patriots at pick No. 27, but Reiss suggests they could trade up to the 10-to-13 range. If not, two or three of the other names on Reiss' list should be available. Rotoworld's Evan Silva has New England taking McClellin in his latest mock draft."
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    re"
    Though I hear what people are saying about Smith he's just to much like Chung for me to consider as a coverage FS
    "

    thanks for acknowledging.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In assessing team needs at 28, 29 and 30 GB needs safety help.  Charlie Peprah was torched on a weekly basis and Nick Collins' career could be over.  We already discussed BAL needing to find Ed Reed's replacement soon but they would probably take Konz as a more immediate need.  Still, the risk is too great to pass on Smith at 27 hoping he slips through to 31 so I still think we take him. 27.  S Harrison Smith - Notre Dame It's taking me awhile to warm up to Kendall Reyes at 31 because his production wasn't especially impressive against so-so competition.  However, as a 5 technique he will be asked to occupy blockers allowing the LBs to make plays.  Reyes is one of the more athletic guys at the Combine for his size and could develop into something special in time. 31.  DT Kendall Reyes - UCONN We need a pass rusher.  With the loss of Mark Anderson's 10 sacks and possibly loss of Andre Carter's 10 sacks I'm not comfortable that Trevor Scott can get us more than 5 assuming he stays healthy.  We will likely switch back and forth between 3 and 4 man fronts and Vinny Curry to me is a perfect situational pass rusher who may even be able to stand up a little.  With SD on the clock with the next pick, they are a threat to take Curry even with their recent signing of Jarrett Johnson, who is not a pass rusher. 48.  DE/OLB Vinny Curry  - Marshall There is no way we keep both fullbacks as they are too similar and would only fill a situational role on the team and not expected to get many carries.  Woodhead's production was way off last year plus he becomes a F/A after this season.  Vereen hasn't shown he can stay healthy.  40% of our carries from last year went out the door with BJGE and Faulk.  Ridley projects as the starter but if he continues to put the ball on the ground he could quickly find his way to the bench.  I expect Doug Martin to be gone at this point but one of Wilson, Miller and probably LaMichael James will be there at 62.  James is by far the most prolific and most versatile runner of the three as he led the nation with 1,805 rushing yards at an impressive 7.31 average.  James can also return punts which gives him value on special teams.  James was 3rd in the nation with all purpose yards with 2,175 with 210 receiving yards.  James reminds of Darren Sproles so SD could be looking at him before this point but if he makes it here, he could be an electric player making our offense even more lethal.  If he's gone, either Wilson or Miller would fill the need. 62.  LaMichael James - Oregon With Barrett, Brown and Chung all set to become free agents after 2012 and knowing that Steven Gregory is a long shot to start, let alone make the team, a second pick at safety keeps the trend of taking multiple high picks at positions of need going.  In 2011 we took a pair of RBs and in 2010 a pair of TEs, so with our need so big, it makes sense to do it at safety this year.  Taylor is a 3 year starter at SS in one of the elite SEC programs.  He's essentially a box safety who tackles and hits.  He reads and reacts well.  He's a former team captain and would be a steady back-up to the oft injured Chung allowing us to leave Smith at FS should Chung go down again. 93.  SS Brandon Taylor - LSU The Patriots ranked 19th in the kick off return yards last year.  Their leading return man, Danny Woodhead ranked 33rd.  The Pats also have major question marks at slot receiver after this season with Welker likely to move to greener pastures and Edelman set to become a free agent.  TY Hilton fills both of these needs.  Hilton ranked 8th in the NCAA in kick off return average at 18/548, a 30.44 average.  As a receiver he collected 72/1,038/7.  He also has 4.37 speed.  The concern with Hilton is durability, otherwise he'd be a solid 2nd round pick.  If we get him in the weight room and use him only in the return game for one season, hopefully he can add enough bulk to assume some slot duties in 2013 and beyond. 126. WR TY Hilton
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    not bad.
    but i like a bigger receiver.
    do you see james as a 3 down back? talented but... who is our 3 down back?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    current preferred:

    i'll go d. still (top dl available) or mclellin (versatility)

           jenkins or smith (i think jenkins goes to st louis or indy at top of rd 2)
    i think shutdown corner has greater value than safety so if jenkins checks out for bb, i go jenkins. otherwise smith

           3rd pick trade up from 48 to about 40 for alshon jeffery with a mid/late pick from next year and 48 (excited about the idea of this guy on our team. drew double teams constantly, catches the ball anywhere, huge and uncoverable.

    jeffery, gronk, hern, lloyd
    FA-GET-ABOUD-DIT! no stopping them.

           best olb/de left 4th pick (curry?)

           rd 3 d line (martin?)

     4 maybe o line or opposite jenkins smith pick whoever we get ie safety or corner.
       if broyles is there, take him as welker's future replacement

            udfa rb and slot wr ( if we dont get broyles. one sleeper slot wr junior hemingway)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    my worst case fear:

     bb does his usual, trades down 3 or 4 times and gets a bunch of jags in mid and late rounds and he hopes a couple of them are better than just jags.

    hope he cures his addiction to acculmulating picks as a "need" (they are a means, not the ends).

    and instead allows himself to use the strategy he has created to actually exploit the gain he's made, ie cash in the chips instead of thinking the chips are what its about. you cant eat chips :) onvet tehm to cach and you can eat.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I'm not overly convinced with Chapman truthfully. Given the level of talent around him he greatly under performed imo. He reminds me of Brace playing next to Raji. I don't think he'll be nearly as good without having the talent around him
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I don't know what your criteria is for under performing (assuming sack/TFL #'s etc.), but he's a 34 NT, his job is to eat up blocks, occupy space, be strong at the POA... that's what he does well and what he'd be asked to do here.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    That's exactly my thinking. Blue chip defensive playmakers don't last past the top 15, usually.

    If you draft a DE/OLB at the bottom of the 1st round, your just as likely to get a bust as you are a playmaker.

    I guess you can hedge your bets by drafting a DE/OLB with each of the 3 picks, but I doubt BB will do that.


    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : not a lot of playmakers available at 27 and 31. especially on de. only one may be janoris jenkins. on offense there will surely be playmakers at wr of the de players available, they may be decent, good, busts or a playmaker
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    my head spinner draft. it may not necessarily mirror what bb eventually does, or you may not necessarily like, but i guarantee the quantity of moving parts will be as confusing as bb's

    #27: traded to colts. colts see fleener available after denver surprisingly takes a pass. nwe gets the colts' 2012 #34 and #112

    #31: mb's draft disciples start pulling their hair as bb pulls another trade. big surprise, neither mia nor cle picked up tannehill. jax suddenly finds value in tannehill as backup to gabbert. they need to swoop in given risk of cle finally picking up tannehill at 37. jax gives up thier 2013 first and 2012 #101

    #34: perry and mercillus are still on the board. nwe chooses perry.

    #40: another surprise move by bb. gives up #48 and #126 to draft b thompson at car's #40. reyes was available but bb chooses the DT who can occasionally play inside on 3-front, just like love did in the payoffs.

    #48: already traded to car

    #62: bb trades down to kcc's #74 + kcc's 2013 fourth rounder

    #74: bb picks up an under the radar kid, small school kid - brandon brooks, og. wendell is their only backup G until mankins comes back. insurance comes in a kid who a lot of "pundits" were surprised to not get an invite to the combine. 346 lbs and pretty athletic and proved he can push people around.

    #93: bb picks up another under the radar, small school kid - josh norman, cb. 6ft kid who can cover and has good ball skills. rated around the same as hosley, but has a little bit more cockiness and nastiness. my be flexible enough to play S every now and then. i'm making this up.

    #97: bb picks up mcnutt, WR

    #101: bb picks up miles burris, LB, and calls it a day.

    In summary, pats pickup 6 kids instead of five.

    Nick Perry, DE/OLB
    Brandon Thompson, DT
    Brandon Brooks, OG
    Josh Norman, CB
    Marvin McNutt, WR
    Miles Burris, LB

    In addition they get..
    JAX's 2013 first rounder
    KCC's 2013 fourth rounder

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    It is a consensus not just here on this board but throughout New England that the Pats DO NOT need more JAG's but need some serious impact playmakers on defense. If Belichick does his "I'm a genious and can win with anyone" act and trades away or down I swear there will be a rebellion. And Kraft must be sick of it too, paying all these signing bonuses to the likes of Brace and Price and such.
    IT'S IMPACT TIME BB.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    i just realized they do have six picks.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]Faucetman - interesting draft. I would say: 1. Edelman and Woodhead will not command much on the FA market so keeping them would be relatively easy. 2. We just signed an injury prone slot with good speed so not sure BB will be all that excited about adding another 'durability' issue. 3. BB relying on a backfield of 2 second year guys and a rookie is not likely, so if we add another back it will likely be one of the cheap veteran FA we just brought in for workouts or a late preseason cut, unless there is a huge value proposition later in the draft. I will be really surprised if we draft an offensive skill guy that is not at least one round later than he has been projected. So say Martin at 62 or Alshon/Sanu at 93 sort of thing. I would not be as surprised at an OL guy at relatively standard value. I think doubling up at any of the defensive positions is quite possible or going S/CB so what you have at safety makes sense to me - or Reyes/Wolfe, or Curry/Irvin, etc. On the Hoyer trade value discussed elsewhere - I could see a team like Denver who could definitely use an upgraded back-up listening to a #31/Hoyer for #25 swap or something similar to convert 62 to an earlier second rounder and adding in some late round picks. Straight up trade I just don't see anyone paying more than a fourth at most more likely a fifth. He is on a one year contract, so a team taking him either has to work out an extension or is just renting him for a year.
    Posted by mia76[/QUOTE]
    James was my fun pick.  I don't think BB would do it either.  But I do think James will be a very good pro and I see SD all over him at 49 because they miss Sproles.  I do like the idea of taking 2 safeties, we need them. 

    I don't think you'll see us take an OL type.  At most we will carry 9 OL.  We are already at 9 solid OL types

    Solder
    Gallery
    Connolly
    Waters
    Vollmer
    Cannon
    Wendell
    Mankins
    Koppen

    If we start Mankins and/or Koppen on the PUP list, then okay we have room initially, but once they come off the PUP list, someone will have to get cut.

    As for Hoyer, I think he has almost no trade value, 6th or 7th rounder at most.  As you say, he'll be unrestricted next year so why give up a pick for a back-up QB when he hasn't proven anything at this point?  I think if we keep him, it is for a 1 year insurance policy to give Mallett more time to develop.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]my head spinner draft. it may not necessarily mirror what bb eventually does, or you may not necessarily like, but i guarantee the quantity of moving parts will be as confusing as bb's #27: traded to colts. colts see fleener available after denver surprisingly takes a pass. nwe gets the colts' 2012 #34 and #112 #31: mb's draft disciples start pulling their hair as bb pulls another trade. big surprise, neither mia nor cle picked up tannehill. jax suddenly finds value in tannehill as backup to gabbert. they need to swoop in given risk of cle finally picking up tannehill at 37. jax gives up thier 2013 first and 2012 #101 #34: perry and mercillus are still on the board. nwe chooses perry. #40: another surprise move by bb. gives up #48 and #126 to draft b thompson at car's #40. reyes was available but bb chooses the DT who can occasionally play inside on 3-front, just like love did in the payoffs. #48: already traded to car #62: bb trades down to kcc's #74 + kcc's 2013 fourth rounder #74: bb picks up an under the radar kid, small school kid - brandon brooks, og. wendell is their only backup G until mankins comes back. insurance comes in a kid who a lot of "pundits" were surprised to not get an invite to the combine. 346 lbs and pretty athletic and proved he can push people around. #93: bb picks up another under the radar, small school kid - josh norman, cb. 6ft kid who can cover and has good ball skills. rated around the same as hosley, but has a little bit more cockiness and nastiness. my be flexible enough to play S every now and then. i'm making this up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOaybBJezrg #97: bb picks up mcnutt, WR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzDog7j9ziE #101: bb picks up miles burris, LB, and calls it a day. In summary, pats pickup 6 kids instead of five. Nick Perry, DE/OLB Brandon Thompson, DT Brandon Brooks, OG Josh Norman, CB Marvin McNutt, WR Miles Burris, LB In addition they get.. JAX's 2013 first rounder KCC's 2013 fourth rounder
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    i dont hate it.
    glad you got mcnutt to go with the de and o line.
    like my draft better but, yeah i could live with it, esp if norman pans out
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12! : I don't know what your criteria is for under performing (assuming sack/TFL #'s etc.), but he's a 34 NT, his job is to eat up blocks, occupy space, be strong at the POA... that's what he does well and what he'd be asked to do here.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    It's just really what my eye is telling me. When I watched him he occupied space well but never really took on a ton of dbl teams. For the most part when he was dbl'd he was washed out of the play moving laterally along the line. He didn't have the penetrating power that we see in most NT's and stayed relatively close to the line. To me that usually translates to being pushed backwards in the pro's. Considering the D he was on I would have expected to see him more aggressive in pushing the pocket and even willingness to shoot the gap when allowed. Instead usually what I saw was OL holding their own against him and holding him close to the line. Typically they ran right at him because of the presence on the outside edge.

    Honestly I don't see him being any better then Love is with a Brace type of downside. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    At some point the Pats are going to make a trade so I was wondering who you guys thought were possible trade partners. Now I have my list lets see if it lines up with you:

    #1 Phi - Reid and BB always trade every year. If any trade personified this it would be when they swapped picks moving 1 spot respectfully for no reason but to trade. I fully expect them to trade again this year. Whether that's a couple late round picks or if, imo, Arrington might be a player trade to replace Samuel for some mid-round picks is unknown but I do see a trade coming

    #2 KC - Now with KC this does make sense in the back of the 1st or in the mid rounds. In the back of 1st their target the target could be Weeden at QB or Adams/Sitaolu at RT. The reasoning it that both won't make it back to KC in the 2nd round as Clev will target Weeden with #37 and nether Adams or Sitaolu will make it to the mid 2nd. There also the possibility of KC trading for either Mallett or Hoyer. Either would command a day 2 pick the matter is which round

    #3 TB - Now this might not seem like a likely choice but if Clev takes Richardson then TB might be looking at Martin to fill their RB need. They could also be looking for another WR (Sanu, Jeffery, Wright) if one should fall. But with the Giants, Stl, and Viks all ahead of them they might be looking to jump a couple of spots to get a player they want

    #4 Clev - It doesn't look like anyone will jump ahead of Clev to get Weeden in the 2nd but they still might want to move up from #37 to get the guy they want. They could also be looking for a CB and if Jenkins falls I could see them trying to move back into the 1st and grabbing Jenkins will keeping their #37 pick for Weeden. Actually if Clev trades up it's far more likely they are looking to grab Jenkins then Weeden.

    #5 NO - With no picks in the first 2 rounds NO must be desperate to get anything. We could see them offering their 1st next year and their 3rd and 5th this year to move into the 1st. Now, it's not the brightest move on their part since they'd be in the same position next year but I can see them making this move considering the players they need to replace this year

    Players I think teams could target if they were looking to trade up to the back of the 1st:

    Jenkins CB
    Adams T
    Martin RB
    Hill/Jeffery/Wright/Sanu WR
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    1st round (27)

    Whitney Mercilus*, DE/OLB, Illinois
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 261.
    40 Time: 4.63. 10-Yd Split: 1.56.
    Bench: 27.
    Vertical: 32. Broad: 9-10.
    Arm: 33 7/8.
    Projected Round (2012): 1.


    1st round (31)

    Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 247.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
    Bench: 27.
    Arm: 27. Hand: 10.
    Projected Round (2012): 1-2.


    2nd round (48 from Oakland)

    Kendall Reyes, DE/DT, Connecticut
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 299.
    40 Time: 4.79.
    Bench: 36.
    Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 9-5.
    Arm: 33 1/4. Hand: 9 1/2.
    Projected Round (2012): 1-2.


    2nd round (62)

    Trade for 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, round pick

    276 points= 3rd ~150, 4th ~80, 5th ~35, 6th ~21  for a total of ~286

    3rd from trade

    George Iloka, S, Boise State
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 225.
    40 Time: 4.59.
    Bench: 20.
    Vertical: 34.5. Broad: 10-4.
    Arm: 34 1/2. Hand: 9 5/8.
    Projected Round (2012): 3-4.


    3rd pick 93

    Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati
    Height: 5-10. Weight: 197.
    40 Time: 4.41. 10-Yd Split: 1.50
    Vertical: 33. Broad: 9-8.
    Arm: 31. Hand: 8 5/8.
    Projected Round (2012): 3-4.


    4th round pick (126)

    Jake Bequette, DE/OLB, Arkansas
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 275.
    40 Time: 4.78. 10-Yd Split: 1.72.
    Vertical: 34. Broad: 9-5.
    Arm: 32. Hand: 9 1/4.
    Projected Round (2012): 4.


    4th round (from trade)

    Kashif Moore, WR, U Conneticut
    Height: 5-9. Weight: 194.
    40 Time: 4.41.
    Vertical: 43.5.
    Projected Round (2012): 4-5.

    5th round from trade

    Coryell Judie, CB, Texas A&M
    Height: 6-0. Weight: 194.
    40 Time: 4.44. 10-Yd Split: 1.51.
    Vertical: 37. Broad: 10-6.
    Arm: 30 1/4.
    Projected Round (2012): 4-5.


    6th round (from trade)

    Ryan Miller, G, Colorado
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 321.
    40 Time: 5.27.
    Bench: 32.
    Arm: 33 1/8.
    Projected Round (2012): 6

    7th round (trade for with philly)

    Louis Nzegwu, DE/OLB, Wisconsin
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 253.
    40 Time: 4.54.
    Bench: 22.
    Arm: 33 3/4.

    41.5” vertical jump!
    Projected Round (2012): 7-FA

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    Lets call Seattle.....if BB has a favorite player ie Barron....Cox....Brockers, and give Seattle both #1's ..in return get their 1st round and a second.... would luv Barron ...This team needs playmakers... and change philosophy from passive  to aggressive

    1  Barron
    2a Thompson (from seattle)
    2b zeitler
    2c another safety or T Johnson
    3   Adams
    4   Mcnutt or childs
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    I'm going to tweak my previous mock with just a few days left till the draft. 

    #11 (From KC) Mark Barron  Safety  Bama   BB sends picks 31, 62, and Backup QB Brian Hoyer to KC in order to grab the best Safety in this draft, and probably the best Safety prospect since Eric Berry.  Having Barron paired with Chung gives NE arguably the best young Safety tamdem in the NFL.  This is a bold move by BB, but the new rookie salary cap makes it much more practical. NE also gets KC's 6th rounder back in this deal.

    #37 (From Clev)  Alshon Jeffery WR South Carolina  This pick could be the "steal of the draft."  Last September, going into the 2011 CFB season, Jeffery was a consensus Top 10 pick, with many experts predicting him to come off the board ahead of Blackmon. Through the season, S. Car suffered from terrible QB play, consequently limiting Jeffery's opportuinites. Then his off-season was marred by rumored weight fluxuation, although he was in good shape at the combine.  Bottom line is that Jeffery is an elite pass catcher. No one in this draft goes up and gets it better than Jeffery, and while he isn't a blazer, he has good speed and has shown the ability to get open on the perimeter against SEC defenses. Cleveland sends NE pick #37 & a 2013 2nd in exchange for #27, where they select QB Brandon Weeden.

    #51 (From Philly)  Derek Wolfe  DE/DT Cinncy.  PatsEng has been right about this guy all along.  He will be an effective 3-4 DE in NE's defense.  Terriffic motor, great awareness, and above average pass-rush potential for his size.  He has also bulked up close to 300 lbs.  He's been mentioned as a late first rounder, but I think that he ultimately comes off the board mid-second round.  BB keeps the annual trade streak with Andy Reid alive here, as Philly jumps up to grab Bobby Wagner, giving NE this pick (51), and a 2013 5th.


    #93 Josh Chapman DT Bama. I think this could be a classic BB "plan for the future" value pick. I think Chapman is an under-rated prospect in this class. He looks like he could fit perfectly as a NT in a 3-4, and I believe NE could draft him with the idea that he could be the replacement for Wilfork when the sad day comes when Big Vince hangs it up. Love the value here.

    #126  Oliver Vernon OLB/DE Miami    From a pure talent stand-point, Vernon is among the best 3-4 OLB in this draft.  He has explosive pass rush ability and has shown the willingness and ability to play in coverage. Just a tremendous all-around athlete. So why is he still on the board in the 4th round? He is pretty raw, and was involved in the player payment scandal at The U. Questionable charater, but worth the gamble here.

    6th round (From KC) Tom Compton OT South Dakota 6'6" OT who has pretty good footwork. Fits the mold for what BB like in OTs as far as size. Pretty raw coming from a small program, but Scar could coach this guy up really well.  Likely a Practice Squad kid to begin with, but likely would develop into a valuable reserve OT with Light gone and Vollmer's back a constant worry.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! UPDATED W/ MOCK V3 4/12!:
    [QUOTE]current preferred: i'll go d. still (top dl available) or mclellin (versatility)        jenkins or smith (i think jenkins goes to st louis or indy at top of rd 2) i think shutdown corner has greater value than safety so if jenkins checks out for bb, i go jenkins. otherwise smith        3rd pick trade up from 48 to about 40 for alshon jeffery with a mid/late pick from next year and 48 (excited about the idea of this guy on our team. drew double teams constantly, catches the ball anywhere, huge and uncoverable. jeffery, gronk, hern, lloyd FA-GET-ABOUD-DIT! no stopping them.        best olb/de left 4th pick (curry?)        rd 3 d line (martin?)  4 maybe o line or opposite jenkins smith pick whoever we get ie safety or corner.    if broyles is there, take him as welker's future replacement         udfa rb and slot wr ( if we dont get broyles. one sleeper slot wr junior hemingway)
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    Neither Jeffrey or Sanu can separate in college, how are they supposed to do it in the pros?  If you watch the tape, they win by using their size and bodies to gain position.  Both have great hands which is a plus making them nice red zone targets but both lack explosiveness and ability to separate which will be a huge problem for them against NFL corners.  In the case of Jeffrey, I don't think he's intelligent enough to get our system plus he has questionable work ethic as evidence by his weight fluctuations.

    They both remind me of a kid a lot of us liked a couple years ago, Brandon LaFell out of LSU.  Highly productive in college but very pedestrian as a pro so far.  He looks to be a #3 receiver which is what I think these guys will be.   

    I don't see us going with a receiver with all our F/A signings unless it is a return guy in the later rounds, 3rd-4th or beyond. 

    Lloyd
    Welker
    Edelman
    Branch
    Stallworth
    Ochocinco
    Gonzales
    Slater

    We already have to cut two from the above.  I think it could be Gonzales if he gets hurt but if he's healthy, he's pretty darn good.  Ocho needs to show he's learned the playbook even with the reworked contract.  Stallworth has proven he can play in our system.  We might be able to count Slater as a DB but the most WRs we'll carry is 6, unless we only carry 4 RBs or 2 QBs.  So, if we draft a receiver we will either have to cut another WR or go thin at RB/QB.
     
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