***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    RE: Devin Taylor.  If I could land this kid in Rd 3, I'd be all over it.  Elite length, excellent athlete, good motor, versatile with plenty of experience operating out of a two point stance, experienced in coverage and has some pass rush ability.  Also has a ton of experience against top competition.  He may return to school to improve his draft stock, but as a Rd 3 kid this year, I'd be all over him, has all the tools and the potential is there. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    had a chance to go over your ideas and have some thoughts on them:

    Brown - To me he's the poor mans version of Von Miller. With Miller performing so well this year this is going to boast Brown's stock considerably and many teams might be willing to overlook his off-field issues for a chance to have their own version of Von Miller. I don't think Brown makes it out of the top 10 imo but if he somehow fell to the Pats he's worth a shot. Though I don't like his size at all and I think he would be limited to purely passing downs with the Pats (similar to how Den is starting to limit Von) he would bring a dynamic rusher teams would have to plan around. However, I wouldn't trade up for him and I doubt he falls to us

    Thompson - I've been up and down about him all year. I don't like his height as a 34 DE but as a 43 DT he has great size. He takes on dbl teams consistently which has affected his numbers behind the line but even still he's not an effective pocket pusher. His main asset is in run defense. Short of Poe at 350lb Thompson might be the best run defender in the draft and for a 43 system he'd be a great find. I just don't think run support is the biggest priority for the DL this year and imo the Pats system is more fluid transferring between 34 and 43 fronts. I'd like to find a younger version of say a Ellis who could move inside as a DT but could also move outside as a DE. I'd like to find someone to replace/upgrade Ellis, Brace, and Deadrick as I think Love is a good run stuffing DT. If he's there Thompson is hard to pass up but I'd rather take a Still and maybe take a chance on a Wolfe over Thompson just because of their ability to generate pressure.

    Jones - I love Jones but I'm also in the belief that you don't spend high on a C. I think with Scar that you can get a mid to late round and he can be coached up around Brady's tendencies. I would not complain at all if they took Jones but it's just my preference not to take a C that early

    Okafor - I like the pick in the late 2nd. Okafor has some great tools and abilities that he hasn't fully utilized yet but he's been steadily improving. If he stays in school I expect him to be a 1st rounder in 13' so getting him in the late 2nd would be a great pick up. The only thing I'd be hesistant about is that he reminds me of Cunningham but it's not a big enough concern that I wouldn't take him with our late 2nd pick if he's there.

    Smith - Smith is one pick I'd have trouble with honestly. He is extremely inconsistent in coverage (ala USC and Michigan) depending on the physical ability of the receivers across from him. He has good instincts and makes smart football plays putting himself in the position to make the play but, he's limited athletically which is where I think he's hurt the most. He doesn't have great speed or recovery speed, and gets stiff in the hips at times which to me says that he's more of a SS at the next level then a FS. I know he has great PBU numbers and he had 7 ints in 10' but because of physical limitations I just don't think he can help overtop. To me he's best utilized in the box where his instincts could pay off in underneath coverage, filling gaps on runs, and sniffing out screens and gimmick plays. Unfortunately that's a role Chung fills very well. So, I guess if you are concerned about Chungs ability to stay on the field that Smith is a great backup plan but I'd rather target a FS first and Chungs backup second.

    Wright - Like MB I like Wright ability but hate his size. He's not tremendously fast for his size but has great YAC ability and really ate up yards against teams like T A&M but against Pro style secondary's like LSU he's had issues. Mainly because they played press and never gave him a clean release. Wright translates to a slot receiver at the next level which concerns me about finding a spot for him on the Pats. Frankly we are full of slot receivers and no outside the numbers guys. Welker is a slot guy, Hernandez is a HB who works out of the slot most times, Branch at this point of his career is better as a slot guy. The other big issue is that teams have learned the best way to defend the Pats receivers is to press them at the line and not let them get a clean release which is Wrights biggest weakness. I just don't see where Wright would fit or how affective he'd be if he gets bumped at the line.

    I like most of the players you mentioned and can envision the Pats taking any of them really but some of them are too similar to players currently on the team and don't address the problems I see on the field. Namely; consistently generating pressure on the QB from the DL, coverage help over top, and an outside the numbers WR to counter press coverage.


    love your analysis and cant find anything i disagree with. still was near the top of my list when i started this year draft posting.

    dont want a small outside #1, on record since predraft last year

    do want one of the top centers, rather get him as low sa possible (3rd?)

    what do you have re hightower as a fit for pats?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Hey BRD,

    Hightower is in an interesting spot imo. I love his instincts, intelligence, and athleticism but unlike MB I just don't see room on the roster for him.

    To me Hightower is a huge MLB/ILB. I can't see him lining up off the edge or as a OLB. He doesn't have the speed to play outside the box and his best blitzes are when he can read the line and react to the opening gap. Having him rush outside 1v1 where his gap choices are limited plays against his best strengths (instincts and intelligence). The other biggest strength he has is QBing a D another skill that would be under utilized because of current personal

    We just extended Mayo long term so in a 34 He's one of your ILB and even in a 43 he's been used as the MLB over Spikes which suits Mayo's abilities better. Moving Mayo to OLB in a 34 has not proven as successful as leaving him as a ILB although he's looking fine playing OLB in a 43 but he's not a good coverage LB (hence the reason he's moved inside on passing downs). He does have enough speed though to track down a player on the edge which allows to to stay in as a MLB. Mayo is also the QB on the D, a skill he's well known for and having 2 QB's on the D at the same position doesn't work.

    With Spikes, when he's on the field he's been a proven success. Though putting in Hightower over Spikes would be an upgrade I don't feel it's enough of an upgrade to warrant a 1st. Spikes is a stout run defender who's recently be able to generate some pressure up the middle on blitz packages. I'd like Spikes to continue that role for the foreseeable future.

    Truthfully I love Hightower and if I thought you could move him, Mayo, or Spikes outside without any detriment to their abilities I would but I just can't see justification to weaken 1 players skills to upgrade an area that's already fairly strong verses spending the same pick on a player built to play outside while maintaining the same presence inside
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    PatsEng..
    I thought the same thing on Hightower..love the kid, but his skill set seems redundant at this point unless they were cutting ties with Spikes or Fletcher which I don't see happening. Sure, Hightower is an upgrade over both, but to me rich if we had to grab him in round 1 given what we have.

    There are 3 LB's on our current roster that I like. Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher. Fletcher and Mayo can play 3-4 ILB, or 4-3 OLB. Both have their issues in coverage, Mayo I think the best of the bunch. Spikes to me is strictly an ILB, no coverage ability, great run defender, a bit of a rush in him, but not much else.

    I know BB likes to change it up on defense, but if you are to burn a 1st round pick, do you go after a kid with scheme versatility (3-4 / 4-3), or a kid that is a stud in one or the other? Kind of brings us back to your post on teh DE's that you liked for different reasons. My personal opinion is if there is a stud 4-3 DE, that can set the edge and get after the QB, this is the kid I'm drafting regardless if he can stand up and play 3-4 OLB.

    And this is where projecting gets difficult for me, and where I think our weakness in drafting has occured. Meaning, sometimes I think we look for too much versatility and not enough specialty. Case in point, Cunningham over Dunlap, or Tate over Wallace. Both Dunlap and Wallace are great specialists (rushing the passer, deep receiving threat), but niether are really versatile...playing ST, different defensive schemes, etc.
    Looking back I'd rather have either of those 2 over Tate or Cunningham. Same said for the list that I think Pats7393 put up on all the good DE talent we passed on. At some point, I think we just need to go get a kid dominant in an area or two, rather than mediocre generalists.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Hello everyone. Appreciated the great thoughts and names that have been tossed around here lately. Sportslover -- that was a great list you put together, there were some names on there that I hadnt considered before and will be checking them out over the next weeks.

    When discussing potential picks for the pats I think we should ask ourselves what Defensive scheme they will likely be running as base in 2012. During Training camp, Coach Belichick was a guest on what is probably the best Football show in the country; Moving the Chains with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan. He was asked what front he would be running in 2011 and he said flat out that the Pats would primarily be a 4 man front due to the shortened prep time attributed to the lockout. He said it would take too much time to teach spacing, run fits, edge responsibilities etc for the base 3-4 and the 4 man front featured in a majority of their sub packages. Thus they would adopt just 1 main alignment so when they switched to a sub package the responsibilities of the DL would stay the same. It was thought that this approach was simpler and likely to be more productive.

    Implied in the above is that the 4-3 we are seeing this year is just temporary, a reaction to last years lockout. That being said, coupled with an assesment of our current roster leads me to believe our biggest need lies with the DL and OLB. Gerrard Warren and Shaun Ellis will be above 34 and are not likely to return. Myron Pryor has been on IR for the last 2 years, Mike Wright's career may be in jeopardy with the concussions he has had, Ron Brace who I like has not been consistent enough. Carter will be 33 and is coming of a significant injury and is also a free agent. Anderson who I hope will be retained, is also a free agent. Cunningham at best provides quality depth. Wilfork, Love and Deaderick remain as your steadiest long term solutions at DL and Ninkovich at OLB.

    With all that being said, I hope the theme for this draft is High Ceiling. Yes, this will involve risk since you will be picking some guys based on potential. When you pick at the end of the first round, you have to take some risk to get a Great Player. Here are 4 guys that address our front 7 need and also have pretty high ceiling.

    Round 1a--- Dontarie Poe DT Memphis (6-5,350) If you havent seen this guy, google him right now. What a specimen!! He is a cut 350. Haloti Ngata body type and playing style. His upside is just incredible. Unblockable when singled. Will drive his man into the backfield every single time. Has a good pass rush and is developing in that regard. Anchors against the run and is a bear to move. Great Lateral agility and intangibles. Has a reputation for spending a lot of time in the weight room. Is a little raw. Starter at LDE/RDE (Athletic and good against both run and pass to play both), NT and 4-3 DT. Could end up as good as Ngata. Has that kind of potential.

    Round 1b---- Fletcher Cox DE/DT Missisipi St (6-4, 294)  The most athletic DT I have seen in a long time. Great potential as a pass rusher, Disruptive against the run. Starter at RDE and can go inside to DT in a 4-3. In my opinion he would be the long awaited successor to Seymour. SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week award 4 times this year. Blocks kicks. How many 300 pound guys have you seen turn the corner and lay out like a CB to block a FG? Amazing prospect.Seems to play better in space where he can use his athleticism more.
     
    Round 2a---- Vinny Curry DE/OLB Marshall (6-4, 260) Enough has been said about Curry.

    Round 2b---- Shea McClellin DE/OLB Boise St (6-3,258)  Ill keep on beating this kids drum. Most will think this is too high but I will shock you even more by telling you that I would pick him with a late 1st.In my opinion he is the most ready 3-4 OLB I have seen in a long time. Great pass rusher, potential to be a 10 sack a year guy. Great and I mean great coverage. Is solid in man. When he has been asked to play LB in Boise, he has often ran stride for stride with WR, TE or RB down the field. Has a good variety of pass rush moves. Great intangibles. His sack production this year was only 6 but that is only because he played alot more snaps at OLB and ILB than he did the previous year when he had about 10.

    If we can somehow get the above 4 and pick up 2 WR's later on and a Veteran FS like Griffin in free agency, Defense would be all set for a long time. Next Year we can get a Center, TE , CB and young FS in the draft. Apologies for the long post. I really tried to be as concise as I could.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]PatsEng.. I thought the same thing on Hightower..love the kid, but his skill set seems redundant at this point unless they were cutting ties with Spikes or Fletcher which I don't see happening. Sure, Hightower is an upgrade over both, but to me rich if we had to grab him in round 1 given what we have. There are 3 LB's on our current roster that I like. Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher. Fletcher and Mayo can play 3-4 ILB, or 4-3 OLB. Both have their issues in coverage, Mayo I think the best of the bunch. Spikes to me is strictly an ILB, no coverage ability, great run defender, a bit of a rush in him, but not much else. I know BB likes to change it up on defense, but if you are to burn a 1st round pick, do you go after a kid with scheme versatility (3-4 / 4-3), or a kid that is a stud in one or the other? Kind of brings us back to your post on teh DE's that you liked for different reasons. My personal opinion is if there is a stud 4-3 DE, that can set the edge and get after the QB, this is the kid I'm drafting regardless if he can stand up and play 3-4 OLB. And this is where projecting gets difficult for me, and where I think our weakness in drafting has occured. Meaning, sometimes I think we look for too much versatility and not enough specialty. Case in point, Cunningham over Dunlap, or Tate over Wallace. Both Dunlap and Wallace are great specialists (rushing the passer, deep receiving threat), but niether are really versatile...playing ST, different defensive schemes, etc. Looking back I'd rather have either of those 2 over Tate or Cunningham. Same said for the list that I think Pats7393 put up on all the good DE talent we passed on. At some point, I think we just need to go get a kid dominant in an area or two, rather than mediocre generalists.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I would generally agree Lifer except where we pick in the draft and the strengths of the draft would lend to more versitility then speciality.

    In 11' draft it was clear that the main strength was pass rushers in the front 7. Most had no versatility but excelled in that one specialty in one defensive scheme. In this case I'd go for a pure specialist because the talent far outweighed the versatility. In this draft however, the front 7 players are not particularly strong in that specialist role. Mercilus, Curry, Hightower, and Poe might the only strict specialists where we're drafting with players like Brown, Upshaw, and Brown being the best of the bunch going well before we pick. All the other players in that range I would consider versatile players with attributes that lend to be moved around

    DT/DE -

    Crick, Worty, Still, Cox, and Wolfe are more prone to rushing but are solid enough in run D that they wouldn't be out of place in either the DT or DE role.

    Thompson and Chapman are better at run defense inside but could provide some pressure if lined up outside as a DE

    DE/OLB -

    This is where the vast majority fall. You have players that could play 34 OLB or put their hands down as 43 DE which is a rarity and typically hurts the stock of most players. Think of them in the Anderson role with some coverage ability, players like Ingram, Lewis, Jenkins, Perry, and Branch

    The strength in this draft for the front 7, imo, is in the versatility of the players and not so much the speciality of their abilities. All in all the talent level is much weaker and you won't see as many names popping out on stat sheets as the 11' draft but you have a number of very solid starters in the late 1st early 2nd that will get good/great all around numbers but won't blow you away in one particular category
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    RE: Dont'a Hightower

    I think this kid would make an excellent 34 OLB (not to mention his abilty to play inside in both a 34/43).  He's a solid run defender with a lot of experience stacking and shedding at the POA, has a lot of experience operating in space/coverage and reports are, that he looks to have gained back some lateral quickness/agility, another year removed from his knee injury.  He's also been used as a rusher off the edge (hand in the dirt) and looks to have a pretty good first step with active hands... he looks like a natural, IMO.

    The more I research this kid, the more I like him.

    This kid, IMO, is the epitome of a BB player, big, tough, versatile, instinctive and proven at the highest level of CFB.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Hey speedster interesting thoughts and I can see your reasoning just not sure about the direction you're trying to drive the D honestly.

    Poe - He is a massive beast that is a pure NT. He is so slow and lacks agility he makes Wilfork look like Welker. Poe has a lot of trouble changing direction and won't ever run a play down. If the play is run in his direction then he'll make it without a doubt but most teams just don't run it straight at him. Most of his TFL plays came close to the line where he stood the RB up straight a yrd or two behind the line. Yes he gets dbl teamed but most NT do to begin with and if he were to play a 43 DT he just doesn't have the speed or agility to even chase down TB if he flushes out of the pocket (that could be an issue given the amount of mobile QB's in the division now). You could be right and he could be the next Ngata but we also have the highest paid NT in the league so would you move Wilfork out to DE and keep Poe inside? Poe is best suited for a team looking for a NT to anchor off of like what we do with Vince. I see him going to KC truthfully (possible trade partner for one of our late 1st's)

    Cox - I like the guy honestly. He has perfect size, speed, strength, and agility to become a very effective rusher off the edge. Because of his size and speed he can also be pushed inside to a DT spot. To me he fits the Ellis role nicely. Someone you can toss anywhere on the line in any formation and he can perform. The only questions I have about him is that suspension for multiple violations and his slow start. I'm not sure I want a diva on the line who doesn't follow team policy and why the slow start? Is it because of conditioning issues or because he was upset over the suspension? If the Pats feel comfortable that either won't be an issue then he'd be a good pick but to me character/inconsistency concerns are huge for a DL player being taken in the 1st.

    Curry - you know how I feel about him, I love the kids ability. It's hard to predict where he'd fall because he is a specialist rusher but if they could get him in the mid 2nd I'd be more then happy

    McClellin - I don't think he's the most OLB ready prospect or the highest upside prospect but he could be the highest upside prospect who is the most nfl OLB ready. He has the drive and motor that I love in prospects and looked great against Glenn. I doubt he'd see regular dbl digit sack seasons but I could easily see him consistently getting between 5-10 sacks a season. His main issue is where he best fits in. He was used as a DE, OLB, and ILB hurting his pass rushing numbers but at the same time is weak in run D. As a 43 DE he had issues setting the edge properly getting drag too often inside and as a 34 OLB he is a bit on the slower side and might have issues chasing down a runner heading to the edge. Still he has a great motor, great footwork and fluid hips, and is a very hard worker. If anybody I'd compare him to Vrable as a very good overall player that can be moved around but doesn't excel in one aspect or another. For a late 2nd he's be worth taking a shot esp if they don't think Cunningham can rebound. Could be a real solid pickup
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PatsEng: Thanks for the response. The first full game I saw featuring Poe was against Marshall. Granted, Marshall is not the greatest competition but I remember being impressed by how well a guy who weighed 350 and was 6-5 could move. I saw him chase plays down the field and change direction pretty well in short distances. When doubled he seemed to struggle some but got better as the game went on. It was probably due to the fact that he is quite tall at 6-5 and was also playing high. He is not a finished product but with some coaching to play with a lower pad level, he could be almost unstoppable. What I saw of him makes me comfortable playing him at LDE with Brace as a back up. I would only play him at nose if Vince couldnt go for whatever reason. I would basically use him much like the Ravens use Ngata, lining him up all over the line as dictated by matchups. Primary position would be 3-4 LDE though.
     
    Regarding Cox, I share your concerns regarding the off field stuff and slow start. If all checks out he would hands down be the best pick at this point. Like Brandon Spikes, he plays with a swagger that I absolutely love.

    McClellin; we will have to see what his speed checks out as in the workouts. Personally, I have no concerns with it. I have seen him  keep up stride for stride with a WR in coverage. Is also a good man defender in coverage. Yes he may struggle at the point as a 4-3 DE, but as a 3-4 OLB that wouldnt be a concern as he wouldnt be lined up directly over the tackle. I have a feeling that him and Cox will build up some more buzz as we approach draft day and may go higher than we expect. 2004- 2007 Vrabel is a fair comparison. I think this kid is already that good.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED



    Sorry, catching up guys.

    I like TY Hilton. He reminds me of Desean Jackson a bit. Similar body type, speed, quickness. I could see him in a Pats uni.

    I would like to see the Pats invest early in this draft in another TE similar skill set to Gronk. Eiffert (if he declares) and Fleener to me are the two to consider here. Using a trio of Eiffert/Fleener, Gronk and Hern would spell crazy match up issues for defenses. Add Welker to that mix and it's downright absurb. 

    However, does drafting a dual threat TE early signal anything on Welker? Personally, I think Hern plays the slot really well. I would love to see him do more of it. Does it make Welker redundant, espeically given his high potential price tag? Hern to me is the X factor on this team. His play may dictate which route the Pats go in FA or via the draft, and who they decide to resign or not.

     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Sorry, catching up guys. I like TY Hilton. He reminds me of Desean Jackson a bit. Similar body type, speed, quickness. I could see him in a Pats uni. I would like to see the Pats invest early in this draft in another TE similar skill set to Gronk. Eiffert (if he declares) and Fleener to me are the two to consider here. Using a trio of Eiffert/Fleener, Gronk and Hern would spell crazy match up issues for defenses. Add Welker to that mix and it's downright absurb.  However, does drafting a dual threat TE early signal anything on Welker? Personally, I think Hern plays the slot really well. I would love to see him do more of it. Does it make Welker redundant, espeically given his high potential price tag? Hern to me is the X factor on this team. His play may dictate which route the Pats go in FA or via the draft, and who they decide to resign or not.  
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Hey Lifer,

    I don't think moving Hernandez to slot hurts Welker at all. For the most part Welker lines up outside anyways and usually only moves inside if Gronk or Hernandez gets pushed outside for that formation. So, in the end regardless if you have Welker or Hernandez in or out they both can fill either role. Now I do think you do need an outside the numbers WR to offset all the inside receivers we currently have but that's a different topic I hope can be taken care of if McDaniels decides to rejoin the Pats (*caugh* Lloyd *caugh*)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]PatsEng.. I thought the same thing on Hightower..love the kid, but his skill set seems redundant at this point unless they were cutting ties with Spikes or Fletcher which I don't see happening. Sure, Hightower is an upgrade over both, but to me rich if we had to grab him in round 1 given what we have. There are 3 LB's on our current roster that I like. Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher. Fletcher and Mayo can play 3-4 ILB, or 4-3 OLB. Both have their issues in coverage, Mayo I think the best of the bunch. Spikes to me is strictly an ILB, no coverage ability, great run defender, a bit of a rush in him, but not much else. I know BB likes to change it up on defense, but if you are to burn a 1st round pick, do you go after a kid with scheme versatility (3-4 / 4-3), or a kid that is a stud in one or the other? Kind of brings us back to your post on teh DE's that you liked for different reasons. My personal opinion is if there is a stud 4-3 DE, that can set the edge and get after the QB, this is the kid I'm drafting regardless if he can stand up and play 3-4 OLB. And this is where projecting gets difficult for me, and where I think our weakness in drafting has occured. Meaning, sometimes I think we look for too much versatility and not enough specialty. Case in point, Cunningham over Dunlap, or Tate over Wallace. Both Dunlap and Wallace are great specialists (rushing the passer, deep receiving threat), but niether are really versatile...playing ST, different defensive schemes, etc. Looking back I'd rather have either of those 2 over Tate or Cunningham. Same said for the list that I think Pats7393 put up on all the good DE talent we passed on. At some point, I think we just need to go get a kid dominant in an area or two, rather than mediocre generalists.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    re" Spikes or Fletcher which I don't see happening. Sure, Hightower is an upgrade over both, but to me rich if we had to grab him in round 1 given what we have."

    agreed. however i think we definitely need to upgrade. im not happy really with any of our lbs.

    lifer and eng, what is yoru strategy?

    how bout a curry and brown startegy (assuming we could target where brown is going and get there).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    Posted by speedster81[/QUOTE]

    Round 1a--- Dontarie Poe DT Memphis (6-5,350) If you havent seen this guy, google him right now. What a specimen!! He is a cut 350. Haloti Ngata body type and playing style. His upside is just incredible. Unblockable when singled. Will drive his man into the backfield every single time. Has a good pass rush and is developing in that regard. Anchors against the run and is a bear to move. Great Lateral agility and intangibles. Has a reputation for spending a lot of time in the weight room. Is a little raw. Starter at LDE/RDE (Athletic and good against both run and pass to play both), NT and 4-3 DT. Could end up as good as Ngata. Has that kind of potential.

    Round 1b---- Fletcher Cox DE/DT Missisipi St (6-4, 294)  The most athletic DT I have seen in a long time. Great potential as a pass rusher, Disruptive against the run. Starter at RDE and can go inside to DT in a 4-3. In my opinion he would be the long awaited successor to Seymour. SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week award 4 times this year. Blocks kicks. How many 300 pound guys have you seen turn the corner and lay out like a CB to block a FG? Amazing prospect.Seems to play better in space where he can use his athleticism more.
     
    Round 2a---- Vinny Curry DE/OLB Marshall (6-4, 260) Enough has been said about Curry.

    Round 2b---- Shea McClellin DE/OLB Boise St (6-3,258)  Ill keep on beating this kids drum. Most will think this is too high but I will shock you even more by telling you that I would pick him with a late 1st.In my opinion he is the most ready 3-4 OLB I have seen in a long time. Great pass rusher, potential to be a 10 sack a year guy. Great and I mean great coverage. Is solid in man. When he has been asked to play LB in Boise, he has often ran stride for stride with WR, TE or RB down the field. Has a good variety of pass rush moves. Great intangibles. His sack production this year was only 6 but that is only because he played alot more snaps at OLB and ILB than he did the previous year when he had about 10.

    If we can somehow get the above 4 and pick up 2 WR's later on and a Veteran FS like Griffin in free agency, Defense would be all set for a long time. Next Year we can get a Center, TE , CB and young FS in the draft. Apologies for the long post. I really tried to be as concise as I could.





    i love your thinking speed, (re need above and your last paragraph summary re need and aquisitions)

    if the above evaluations turned out to be true, i would be almost 100% on board (te vs 2nd receiver)

    i am in complete agreement with the needs (except i dont see a center in your draft-maybe trade a 2013 2 and add a 3rd for a center).

    i have not watched poe.
    if he may be a ngata, hell yeah i would venture the pick for him!

    my wish list goiing in:
    penetrating dt, pass rush sepcialist de, all around lb upgrade, #1 big outside wr and maybe slot recevier(higher preference however may be te), fa safety and maybe cb.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]RE: Dont'a Hightower I think this kid would make an excellent 34 OLB (not to mention his abilty to play inside in both a 34/43).  He's a solid run defender with a lot of experience stacking and shedding at the POA, has a lot of experience operating in space/coverage and reports are, that he looks to have gained back some lateral quickness/agility, another year removed from his knee injury.  He's also been used as a rusher off the edge (hand in the dirt) and looks to have a pretty good first step with active hands... he looks like a natural, IMO. The more I research this kid, the more I like him. This kid, IMO, is the epitome of a BB player, big, tough, versatile, instinctive and proven at the highest level of CFB.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    thanks mb, thats where i was at wiht him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED


    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Hey speedster interesting thoughts and I can see your reasoning just not sure about the direction you're trying to drive the D honestly.

    Poe - He is a massive beast that is a pure NT. He is so slow and lacks agility he makes Wilfork look like Welker. Poe has a lot of trouble changing direction and won't ever run a play down. If the play is run in his direction then he'll make it without a doubt but most teams just don't run it straight at him. Most of his TFL plays came close to the line where he stood the RB up straight a yrd or two behind the line. Yes he gets dbl teamed but most NT do to begin with and if he were to play a 43 DT he just doesn't have the speed or agility to even chase down TB if he flushes out of the pocket (that could be an issue given the amount of mobile QB's in the division now). You could be right and he could be the next Ngata but we also have the highest paid NT in the league so would you move Wilfork out to DE and keep Poe inside? Poe is best suited for a team looking for a NT to anchor off of like what we do with Vince. I see him going to KC truthfully (possible trade partner for one of our late 1st's)

    hot dammit that was my assesment, was hopinig speedsters was more accurate.


    Cox - I like the guy honestly. He has perfect size, speed, strength, and agility to become a very effective rusher off the edge. Because of his size and speed he can also be pushed inside to a DT spot. To me he fits the Ellis role nicely. Someone you can toss anywhere on the line in any formation and he can perform. The only questions I have about him is that suspension for multiple violations and his slow start. I'm not sure I want a diva on the line who doesn't follow team policy and why the slow start? Is it because of conditioning issues or because he was upset over the suspension? If the Pats feel comfortable that either won't be an issue then he'd be a good pick but to me character/inconsistency concerns are huge for a DL player being taken in the 1st.

    thought a possible pat as well, just wast highest on him


    Curry - you know how I feel about him, I love the kids ability. It's hard to predict where he'd fall because he is a specialist rusher but if they could get him in the mid 2nd I'd be more then happy

    get him anywhere and he performs as expected id be happy (ie 1b)


    McClellin - I don't think he's the most OLB ready prospect or the highest upside prospect but he could be the highest upside prospect who is the most nfl OLB ready. He has the drive and motor that I love in prospects and looked great against Glenn. I doubt he'd see regular dbl digit sack seasons but I could easily see him consistently getting between 5-10 sacks a season. His main issue is where he best fits in. He was used as a DE, OLB, and ILB hurting his pass rushing numbers but at the same time is weak in run D. As a 43 DE he had issues setting the edge properly getting drag too often inside and as a 34 OLB he is a bit on the slower side and might have issues chasing down a runner heading to the edge. Still he has a great motor, great footwork and fluid hips, and is a very hard worker. If anybody I'd compare him to Vrable as a very good overall player that can be moved around but doesn't excel in one aspect or another. For a late 2nd he's be worth taking a shot esp if they don't think Cunningham can rebound. Could be a real solid pickup

    slower is not what we need at lb.
    we need speed (against run and pass), cover ability, and ability to set the edge. i dont see how he improves us going from your assesment.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    FSU DE Brandon Jenkins will return to Tallahassee for his senior season.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    That was another one I thought the Pats would target. This is getting worse and worse for the Pats

    On a positive note, now that McDaniels is back I think it's an extremely real possibility that Lloyd comes to town, lessening the need to grab a WR early
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    BRD - I do think McClellin would be an upgrade the same way Vrable was an upgrade when he was on the team. Just a solid overall player you can play anywhere on the field on all 3 downs.

    Against the run you play him back in the OLB position and give him an assist (Chung) like we did with Vrable and Harrison and he'll be fine. On passing plays he either stays in the box for underneath coverage or he gets pushed to the edge as a rusher with his hand in the dirt or off set edge.

    McClellin might be the most solid prospect you can find in the late second but like Vrable he won't be an impact player. If we get that impact rusher with one of the earlier picks then McClellin is a very strong pickup upgrading from Nin and White. 

    But, I'd rather grab Wolfe if we didn't grab a DE/DT earlier
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    It would be nice to get Lloyd for like 4-5 million a year
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]FSU DE Brandon Jenkins will return to Tallahassee for his senior season.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Too bad.  He was one kid I had on the radar.  Probably a good move for him though, could become a mid 1st rounder with a strong senior season next year.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]BRD - I do think McClellin would be an upgrade the same way Vrable was an upgrade when he was on the team. Just a solid overall player you can play anywhere on the field on all 3 downs. Against the run you play him back in the OLB position and give him an assist (Chung) like we did with Vrable and Harrison and he'll be fine. On passing plays he either stays in the box for underneath coverage or he gets pushed to the edge as a rusher with his hand in the dirt or off set edge. McClellin might be the most solid prospect you can find in the late second but like Vrable he won't be an impact player. If we get that impact rusher with one of the earlier picks then McClellin is a very strong pickup upgrading from Nin and White.  But, I'd rather grab Wolfe if we didn't grab a DE/DT earlier
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    BRD - I do think McClellin would be an upgrade the same way Vrable was an upgrade when he was on the team. Just a solid overall player you can play anywhere on the field on all 3 downs.

    Against the run you play him back in the OLB position and give him an assist (Chung) like we did with Vrable and Harrison and he'll be fine. On passing plays he either stays in the box for underneath coverage or he gets pushed to the edge as a rusher with his hand in the dirt or off set edge.

    McClellin might be the most solid prospect you can find in the late second but like Vrable he won't be an impact player. If we get that impact rusher with one of the earlier picks then McClellin is a very strong pickup upgrading from Nin and White. 

    But, I'd rather grab Wolfe if we didn't grab a DE/DT earlier

    thanks eng for the review and analyis, 
       how great an upgrade given sacrificing a 2nd rd draft pick, if we get a lb and we need one?we gotta get a faster lb that can stop the run and cover AND one that can stand up on the edge.
    getting another so so lb doenst do it for me. rather go fa and use our picks to get playmakers at key positions where players in the draft are available.

    i have not seen film on mcclelin. saw their game earlier in the year while at the gym.

    do you have a review of wolfe


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : re" Spikes or Fletcher which I don't see happening. Sure, Hightower is an upgrade over both, but to me rich if we had to grab him in round 1 given what we have." agreed. however i think we definitely need to upgrade. im not happy really with any of our lbs. lifer and eng, what is yoru strategy? how bout a curry and brown startegy (assuming we could target where brown is going and get there).
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]

    Strategy on our LB corps? This is a good question. I proposed very early in this thread to take a look at Zach Brown from UNC. Pats7393 brought him up recently and PatsEng commented on him being a poor man's version of Von Miller which may be true.

    MB most recently brought up potentially using Hightower as a 3-4 OLB. So, lots of discussion on the topic and depends in part what style defense BB runs, and how he values certain kids against said positions based on where he's drafting.

    My opinion is we are set inside. Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher are all good ILBs in either scheme. Mayo, Fletcher provide versatility to play outside in the 4-3, but not to date in our 3-4. Based on current personnel, 3-4 OLB's is where our weakness is at the moment.

    Hightower and Zach Brown should roughly come off the board around the same time based on what I've seen to date. If this holds true, it would again depend on what scheme BB wants to run. Hightower would prove the more versatile, Brown a small 4-3 OLB with speed and underrated power.

    So ask yourself, if we use Spikes in the middle, Mayo and Fletcher outside in a 4-3, is that enough? I don't see much in the way of depth here either.
    Meanwhile, you have Mayo/Spikes inside in the 3-4 with Fletcher providing depth, not much of anything on the outside unless you think highly of Anderson, Nink or Cunningham here.

    Personally, if I was rebuilding the LB corps, I would take Hightower over Brown (IF we go back to more 3-4), and then look later in the draft to pick up a speedy 4-3 OLB. I want to think Cunningham may turn into somehting. He and Hightower outside could get it done. That's puttinga lot of trust in Cunningham. IF we run more 4-3, then a guy like Brown would be valuable albeit a bit undersized for BB as he won't be able to really use him anywhere else other than possibly that safety that plays in the box. He might actually be pretty good in that role as he is decent in coverage too.

    Then comes the DL..., we have issues in the front 3. We don't really have any dominating 3-4 DL other than Vince. The rest in my mind are all depth. Deaderick, Brace mediocre. Love is a 4-3 DT, and I think he gets pushed around too much in the NT role even if you swing Vince outside.

    To me, we have a larger gap in player talent in the 3-4. Even if you take Hightower, the other OLB spot is vacant good talent. Then you have to also possibly add 1-2, 3-4 DEs. Seems tricky given this year is not deep in 3-4 DL talent. If we drafted Watt or someone like that last year, different discussion.

    So, long story short...I would look at some speedy 4-3 OLB's. Brown top of my list. He has done nothing but produce. Tackles, sacks, INTs, FFs, etc.
    Short list would look like this by round;
    1. Zach Brown (1st/early 2nd)
    2. Ronnell Lewis (2nd)
    3. Chase Thomas (3rd)
    4. Danny Trevathan (3rd/4th)
    5. Nico Johnson (3rd/4th)

    IF we wanted to use some early picks on defense, and draft a 3-4 OLB (Hightower) and a 3-4 DE, I would be good with that. But, we would need to do both or pick up a 3-4 DE in FA. I like Hightower as well, so I would pair him up with;
    1. Devon Still (1st)
    2. Wolfe (2nd)
    This is about as far down the board I would take a 3-4 DE if we go that route. I don't care for much anyone else. Winn is MB's guy and I like him okay, but Still and Wolfe I like better.

    I know this wont' be received well, but I would use my 1st 4 picks on defense to rebuild the front 7 and Safety position.

    My 1st 5 picks would look like this....I believe the 1st 4 would also provide some scheme versatility....
    1. Hightower (3-4 OLB/ILB)
    2. Mercilus (3-4 OLB/4-3 DE)
    3. Wolfe (3-4 DE/4-3 DT)
    4. Mark Barron (SS)
    5. TY Hilton (WR)
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Hey Lifer,

    I'd be very happy with those first 5 picks, however, Barron won't be there with the late 2nd pick.

    Late in the 2nd you are looking more at a Martin, Lester, or Guy Jr

    Hilton I really like as a WR and think he could be a steal in the 3rd. The only question I would have is if we get Lloyd do we need another undersized WR vs getting a 6'3"+ possession WR. If Lloyd is coming in I might rather go with Randle just for his size
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Hey Lifer, I'd be very happy with those first 5 picks, however, Barron won't be there with the late 2nd pick. Late in the 2nd you are looking more at a Martin, Lester, or Guy Jr Hilton I really like as a WR and think he could be a steal in the 3rd. The only question I would have is if we get Lloyd do we need another undersized WR vs getting a 6'3"+ possession WR. If Lloyd is coming in I might rather go with Randle just for his size
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    def. gotta have the size.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Strategy on our LB corps? This is a good question. I proposed very early in this thread to take a look at Zach Brown from UNC. Pats7393 brought him up recently and PatsEng commented on him being a poor man's version of Von Miller which may be true. MB most recently brought up potentially using Hightower as a 3-4 OLB. So, lots of discussion on the topic and depends in part what style defense BB runs, and how he values certain kids against said positions based on where he's drafting. My opinion is we are set inside. Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher are all good ILBs in either scheme. Mayo, Fletcher provide versatility to play outside in the 4-3, but not to date in our 3-4. Based on current personnel, 3-4 OLB's is where our weakness is at the moment. Hightower and Zach Brown should roughly come off the board around the same time based on what I've seen to date. If this holds true, it would again depend on what scheme BB wants to run. Hightower would prove the more versatile, Brown a small 4-3 OLB with speed and underrated power. So ask yourself, if we use Spikes in the middle, Mayo and Fletcher outside in a 4-3, is that enough? I don't see much in the way of depth here either. Meanwhile, you have Mayo/Spikes inside in the 3-4 with Fletcher providing depth, not much of anything on the outside unless you think highly of Anderson, Nink or Cunningham here. Personally, if I was rebuilding the LB corps, I would take Hightower over Brown (IF we go back to more 3-4), and then look later in the draft to pick up a speedy 4-3 OLB. I want to think Cunningham may turn into somehting. He and Hightower outside could get it done. That's puttinga lot of trust in Cunningham. IF we run more 4-3, then a guy like Brown would be valuable albeit a bit undersized for BB as he won't be able to really use him anywhere else other than possibly that safety that plays in the box. He might actually be pretty good in that role as he is decent in coverage too. Then comes the DL..., we have issues in the front 3. We don't really have any dominating 3-4 DL other than Vince. The rest in my mind are all depth. Deaderick, Brace mediocre. Love is a 4-3 DT, and I think he gets pushed around too much in the NT role even if you swing Vince outside. To me, we have a larger gap in player talent in the 3-4. Even if you take Hightower, the other OLB spot is vacant good talent. Then you have to also possibly add 1-2, 3-4 DEs. Seems tricky given this year is not deep in 3-4 DL talent. If we drafted Watt or someone like that last year, different discussion. So, long story short...I would look at some speedy 4-3 OLB's. Brown top of my list. He has done nothing but produce. Tackles, sacks, INTs, FFs, etc. Short list would look like this by round; 1. Zach Brown (1st/early 2nd) 2. Ronnell Lewis (2nd) 3. Chase Thomas (3rd) 4. Danny Trevathan (3rd/4th) 5. Nico Johnson (3rd/4th) IF we wanted to use some early picks on defense, and draft a 3-4 OLB (Hightower) and a 3-4 DE, I would be good with that. But, we would need to do both or pick up a 3-4 DE in FA. I like Hightower as well, so I would pair him up with; 1. Devon Still (1st) 2. Wolfe (2nd) This is about as far down the board I would take a 3-4 DE if we go that route. I don't care for much anyone else. Winn is MB's guy and I like him okay, but Still and Wolfe I like better. I know this wont' be received well, but I would use my 1st 4 picks on defense to rebuild the front 7 and Safety position. My 1st 5 picks would look like this....I believe the 1st 4 would also provide some scheme versatility.... 1. Hightower (3-4 OLB/ILB) 2. Mercilus (3-4 OLB/4-3 DE) 3. Wolfe (3-4 DE/4-3 DT) 4. Mark Barron (SS) 5. TY Hilton (WR)
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    might have to trade up to get hightower. are you willing to do so? id trade a pick form next yr.
    barron will be gone in the first.

    need the big receiver
     

Share