***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]I think Mb makes a great point with Konz.  If you look at our roster (below), we have complete uncertainty at the Center position.  Of course we will have free agency before the draft this year.  I took the liberty to code the players who will be free agents (some will be restricted).  Green is sure to return (franchise tag), yellow is a risk to leave and red is likely to not return, IMO.  Ocho should be cut but there is a chance Koppen comes back, if healthy, but at a reduced cap number.  BB loves the guy. But based strictly on the below (pre free agency), C, S and WR would appear to be top needs.  Assuming the players in yellow all return I don't think it changes much in terms of draft strategy.    OFFENSE 22 Players Slot 30 W Welker '11 25 Edelman '12   WR 32 Branch '11 26 M Slater '11   LOT 33 Light '12 23 N Solder '15   LG 30 Mankins '16     C 29 Connolly '11 25 Wendell '11 Koppen '11 ROG 34 B Waters '12     RT 27 Vollmer '12 23 M. Cannon '14   TE 23 Gronkowski '13 21 Hernandez '13   QB 34 Tom Brady '14 25 Hoyer '11 23 Mallett '14 RB 26 Green-Ellis '11 26 Woodhead '12 35 Faulk '11 23 S. Ridley '14 23 S. Veeren '14         WR 33 Ochocinco '13             DEFENSE 25 Players DE   34 S Ellis '11 25 Love '11   NT 29 Wilfork '14 24 Deaderick '13 M Pryor '12 DE 32 A Carter '11 24 Brace '12 G Warren '11 OLB 23 Cunningham '13 28 M Anderson '11   ILB 25 Mayo '17 25 Fletcher '12 30 White '11 ILB 24 B Spikes '13 25 Guyton '11   OLB 27 Ninkovich '11 24 J Tarpinian   LCB 24 McCourty '14 23 Dowling '14   RCB 25 Arrington '12 26 A Molden   SS 24 Chung '12 27 J Ihedigbo '11   FS 27 J. Barrett '12 23 S. Brown '13     SPECIAL TEAMS 3 PK 27 Gostkowski '14   PS P 24 Z. Mesko '13   Markell Carter LS 23 D Aiken   Dorin Dickerson       Nick McDonald       Garrett Mills       Ross Ventrone       Matt Kopa       Nick McDonald       Thomas Welch
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    hey faucet, been folowing the board?
    discussion early in week on konz, same night had dreams we were taking him. do see value gettign a dominating center.

    ocho and branch should be let go imo.
    shoot gotta go back as the color not coming thru post.

    oh and i would not waste the franchise tag on green ellis. its for welker
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : hey faucet, been folowing the board? discussion early in week on konz, same night had dreams we were taking him. do see value gettign a dominating center. ocho and branch should be let go imo. shoot gotta go back as the color not coming thru post. oh and i would not waste the franchise tag on green ellis. its for welker
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    Hey bredbru,

    I'm way behind.  I try to read this board as much as I can but I just haven't had time this year as in year's past.  Agreed, Welker is the only player worthy of the tag number this year.  We could see BJGE get away this year.  I hope not but BB doesn't pay big bucks for RBs.  I think Ridley has shown that he can be the featured back and Vereen should be healthy next year.  We still have Woodhead so not too worried about RB.

    Agreed also on WR.  Ocho wasn't worth the draft choice or cash.  We should cut our loses. 

    As for Konz, I would have totally been fine with Pouncey last year if Miami didn't take him so Konz should be a no brainer.  With our top picsl we want to draft players who can contribute right away.  If Connolly and Koppen move on, Konz would step in start and probably be an upgrade in short order.  Other than Safety, I don't see another position where a rookie can come in day 1 and start.  Now, this assumes we don't cut Ocho and Branch returns.  If we get rid of both then obviously we'd need 2 new WRs. 

    Defensively, I don't know if a rookie corner or OLB could start right away over the players we have.  If Carter can bounce back I think he's a lock and Deaderick and Love both have shown some things this year.  I don't know that there is a DT type that would be there for us better than our current options.

    Right now I'm kinda hoping we can get 2 of these guys; Konz, Barron and Hightower then add a WR in the 2nd round.

    OFFENSE 22 Players
    Slot30 W Welker '1125 Edelman '12 
    WR32 Branch '1126 M Slater '11 
    LOT33 Light '1223 N Solder '15 
    LG30 Mankins '16  
    C29 Connolly '1125 Wendell '11Koppen '11
    ROG34 B Waters '12  
    RT27 Vollmer '1223 M. Cannon '14 
    TE23 Gronkowski '1321 Hernandez '13 
    QB34 Tom Brady '1425 Hoyer '1123 Mallett '14
    RB26 Green-Ellis '1126 Woodhead '1235 Faulk '11
    23 S. Ridley '1423 S. Veeren '14 
       
    WR33 Ochocinco '13  
        
    DEFENSE 25 Players
    DE 34 S Ellis '1125 Love '11 
    NT29 Wilfork '1424 Deaderick '13M Pryor '12
    DE32 A Carter '1124 Brace '12G Warren '11
    OLB23 Cunningham '1328 M Anderson '11 
    ILB25 Mayo '1725 Fletcher '1230 White '11
    ILB24 B Spikes '1325 Guyton '11 
    OLB27 Ninkovich '1124 J Tarpinian 
    LCB24 McCourty '1423 Dowling '14 
    RCB25 Arrington '1226 A Molden 
    SS24 Chung '1227 J Ihedigbo '11 
    FS27 J. Barrett '1223 S. Brown '13 
     
    SPECIAL TEAMS 3
    PK27 Gostkowski '14 PS
    P24 Z. Mesko '13 Markell Carter
    LS23 D Aiken Dorin Dickerson
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : ...Right now I'm kinda hoping we can get 2 of these guys; Konz, Barron and Hightower ...
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Actually, when you do the full mock, the likelihood of seeing all three available at 1A is not bad. so let's say 1A comes and all three were available... who do you pick?

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Hey bredbru, I'm way behind.  I try to read this board as much as I can but I just haven't had time this year as in year's past.  Agreed, Welker is the only player worthy of the tag number this year.  We could see BJGE get away this year.  I hope not but BB doesn't pay big bucks for RBs.  I think Ridley has shown that he can be the featured back and Vereen should be healthy next year.  We still have Woodhead so not too worried about RB. Agreed also on WR.  Ocho wasn't worth the draft choice or cash.  We should cut our loses.  As for Konz, I would have totally been fine with Pouncey last year if Miami didn't take him so Konz should be a no brainer.  With our top picsl we want to draft players who can contribute right away.  If Connolly and Koppen move on, Konz would step in start and probably be an upgrade in short order.  Other than Safety, I don't see another position where a rookie can come in day 1 and start.  Now, this assumes we don't cut Ocho and Branch returns.  If we get rid of both then obviously we'd need 2 new WRs.  Defensively, I don't know if a rookie corner or OLB could start right away over the players we have.  If Carter can bounce back I think he's a lock and Deaderick and Love both have shown some things this year.  I don't know that there is a DT type that would be there for us better than our current options. Right now I'm kinda hoping we can get 2 of these guys; Konz, Barron and Hightower then add a WR in the 2nd round. OFFENSE 22 Players Slot 30 W Welker '11 25 Edelman '12   WR 32 Branch '11 26 M Slater '11   LOT 33 Light '12 23 N Solder '15   LG 30 Mankins '16     C 29 Connolly '11 25 Wendell '11 Koppen '11 ROG 34 B Waters '12     RT 27 Vollmer '12 23 M. Cannon '14   TE 23 Gronkowski '13 21 Hernandez '13   QB 34 Tom Brady '14 25 Hoyer '11 23 Mallett '14 RB 26 Green-Ellis '11 26 Woodhead '12 35 Faulk '11 23 S. Ridley '14 23 S. Veeren '14         WR 33 Ochocinco '13             DEFENSE 25 Players DE   34 S Ellis '11 25 Love '11   NT 29 Wilfork '14 24 Deaderick '13 M Pryor '12 DE 32 A Carter '11 24 Brace '12 G Warren '11 OLB 23 Cunningham '13 28 M Anderson '11   ILB 25 Mayo '17 25 Fletcher '12 30 White '11 ILB 24 B Spikes '13 25 Guyton '11   OLB 27 Ninkovich '11 24 J Tarpinian   LCB 24 McCourty '14 23 Dowling '14   RCB 25 Arrington '12 26 A Molden   SS 24 Chung '12 27 J Ihedigbo '11   FS 27 J. Barrett '12 23 S. Brown '13     SPECIAL TEAMS 3 PK 27 Gostkowski '14   PS P 24 Z. Mesko '13   Markell Carter LS 23 D Aiken   Dorin Dickerson
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    "Right now I'm kinda hoping we can get 2 of these guys; Konz, Barron and Hightower then add a WR in the 2nd round. "

    well i dont know if i can catch you up on a summation of all ive written, but maybe some. re your 3 above, if we go free safety, i like lester the ball hawk. the other 2 are on my short list

    my pref is to fill as much needs as possible in f.a
    especially free safety and if we want cb (backfield fa vs draft preferred).
    but any high needs as well in fa, so in the draft we can use the picks we have to nab the best gamechangers we can get (that fit our team) within our reach including trading up (including being willing to use a pick from next year to do so).

    we have youth. 13 picks every year we dont need.
    3 or so gamechangers will do the trick.

    draft strategy without knowing what we do in f.a but assuming we pickup fs and,  if needed, cb:

    c (if we go konz first), lb(would like to move our lb pick up to get the best one who falls within reach- i like hightower, (i like upshaw if we had 2 higher picks to get both), wr, de/dt, te

    alternatively

    lb, de/dt, wr, te (last 2 interchangeable order), c


    i wish we had filled more positions last year at the top of the draft instead of going quantity and striking out a lot at the bottom half. (ie package and move up). missing so much leaves us more holes than we can fill this year.

    -i would love a penetrating dt (should be obvious why)
    -sackmaster de (enuf said)
    -speedy lb who can get to the rb and can cover in space (our lb are too slow
           and are not even adequate at covering in space)
    -lb who can set the edge (nuf said)
    -tall, big, smart, reliable, receiver (outside #`1 who is big-several to choose)
    -blocking and receiving te (need to nave another te who can block and at least
             marginal threat in pass game).
    -ballhawking fs (obvious)

    i have joked after watching the brady 6, that bb made the worst defense in history in order to seal brady's legend in the lore of the nfl (ie when he wins a championship with the worst record setting defense in history  :)

    nice to see you around these parts faucet!

    will look for your and other's comments

    peace

    brd/bred


     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Actually, when you do the full mock, the likelihood of seeing all three available at 1A is not bad. so let's say 1A comes and all three were available... who do you pick?
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    hey seattle,


    konz just before he is expected to go. move up for hightower before he is expected to go (next years # 2 ie as chip; no chips(picks) offered from this year only next).

    if donte sees something he likes in a center after konz, biggest impact player instead of konz ie de/dt or wr
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    I don't think Konz will be available when the Pats pick with their first 1st rnd pick.  I do think an OC is a real option in this draft, Connolly and Wendel have done a decent job but getting an OC with power and movement ability should be high on the wish list.  I keep mentioning Ben Jones, I've seen a ton of UGA games and I can't say I've always been looking at C but specially this year I've paid more attention to him and he's the real thing.  His stock will be solidified when he does movement type drills at the combine and pro day.  The style of O he plays in at Georgia is a pro style and has plenty of experience in both QB under center and shotgun.  He didn't allow a sack this year, that IMO is impressive in the SEC.  Has started every game the last two seasons and all but a hand full since freshman year.  Very durable and can't find a more experienced OL in the country.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    I'm with Pats on this one. I just don't see Konz making it out of the top 20 truthfully and I wouldn't trade up for him either.

    Konz is very comparable to Pouncey last year and might actually be the more developed of the two (respective to when they came out). There are a number of teams that could really use a C in this up and coming draft picking well before the Pats and I just don't see Konz sneaking past all of them. Actually I can envision the Colts spending large this year and trading back into the late teens early 20's if Konz gets that far to draft him. Saturday is getting old and they will need a new C to protect their new face of the franchise in Luck. It makes all the sense in the world that the Colts will trade up and grab Konz before the Pats even get a chance at him
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    I've seen a couple of mocks that have the Jets taking Barron at 16.  Is there a clear cut #2 S?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : "Right now I'm kinda hoping we can get 2 of these guys; Konz, Barron and Hightower then add a WR in the 2nd round. " well i dont know if i can catch you up on a summation of all ive written, but maybe some. re your 3 above, if we go free safety, i like lester the ball hawk. the other 2 are on my short list my pref is to fill as much needs as possible in f.a especially free safety and if we want cb (backfield fa vs draft preferred). but any high needs as well in fa, so in the draft we can use the picks we have to nab the best gamechangers we can get (that fit our team) within our reach including trading up (including being willing to use a pick from next year to do so). we have youth. 13 picks every year we dont need. 3 or so gamechangers will do the trick. draft strategy without knowing what we do in f.a but assuming we pickup fs and,  if needed, cb: c (if we go konz first), lb(would like to move our lb pick up to get the best one who falls within reach- i like hightower, (i like upshaw if we had 2 higher picks to get both), wr, de/dt, te alternatively lb, de/dt, wr, te (last 2 interchangeable order), c i wish we had filled more positions last year at the top of the draft instead of going quantity and striking out a lot at the bottom half. (ie package and move up). missing so much leaves us more holes than we can fill this year. -i would love a penetrating dt (should be obvious why) -sackmaster de (enuf said) -speedy lb who can get to the rb and can cover in space (our lb are too slow        and are not even adequate at covering in space) -lb who can set the edge (nuf said) -tall, big, smart, reliable, receiver (outside #`1 who is big-several to choose) -blocking and receiving te (need to nave another te who can block and at least          marginal threat in pass game). -ballhawking fs (obvious) i have joked after watching the brady 6, that bb made the worst defense in history in order to seal brady's legend in the lore of the nfl (ie when he wins a championship with the worst record setting defense in history  :) nice to see you around these parts faucet! will look for your and other's comments peace brd/bred
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    Thanks bred,

    I think BB has tried to do exactly what you suggested during the last off season (as short as it was) by using late round picks to bring in productive veterans to plug needs, Haynesworth/Ocho/Carter/Ellis etc.  The problem with that approach, as we learned, high profile free agents are not always going to work out.  (Ask Andy Reid too.)  Carter was the only pleasant surprise.

    However, I totally agree with your view that we don't need 12-13 rookies each year.  We need 3-4 impact players.  I have taken our roster and deleted players that might be gone.  I kept Branch on a one-year deal but cut Ocho.  Connolly got more money to go somewhere else,  Koppen, Faulk, G Warren and Ellis retired. 

    What happens with Koppen, Connolly and Wendell will really dictate our needs.  If we lose Koppen and Connolly, the need at Center becomes #1.  Even if we keep Connolly, he hasn't been exactly durable but he and Wendell are versatile.  Losing either of these guys really means we need help on the interior OL since it seem Cannon is pretty much been used as RT and I'm not sure there are plans to kick him inside.  Even assuming Cannon is projected to take over at RG after 2012, we have only Wendell behind him and Mankins if we lose Connolly.

    If we get rid of Ocho, we really need 2 WR and I would argue one or both should be capable of stretching the field.  With Welker, Gronk and Hernandez, we have plenty of people capable of working the middle of the field. 

    I put an open position at TE but really we might not go there because Doren Dickerson is on the PS and he can back up Hernandez.  In power sets, BB used Solder as the second blocking TE.

    Defensively, I'm not sure we don't have fast LBs.  Mayo and Guyton are among the fastest in the league.  Spikes is slow.  But I think what you mean is we need LBs that can cover, and we certainly need an OLB that can get after the QB better than Ninko.  Cunningham is sure to be on a short leash this year.  His injury history reminds of Shawn Crable.

    Projected 2012 Roster
    OFFENSE 19 Players
    Slot30 W Welker '1125 Edelman '12 
    WR33 Branch '1126 M Slater '11 
    LOT33 Light '1223 N Solder '15 
    LG30 Mankins '16  
    C 25 Wendell '11 
    ROG34 B Waters '12  
    RT27 Vollmer '1223 M. Cannon '14 
    TE23 Gronkowski '1321 Hernandez '13 
    QB34 Tom Brady '1423 Mallett '14 
    RB26 Green-Ellis '1126 Woodhead '12 
     23 S. Ridley '1423 S. Veeren '14 
    WR   
        
    DEFENSE 21 Players  
    DE 24 Deaderick '1325 Love '11 
    NT29 Wilfork '1424 Brace '12 
    DE32 A Carter '1126 M Pryor '12 
    OLB23 Cunningham '1328 M Anderson '11 
    ILB25 Mayo '1725 Fletcher '1230 White '11
    ILB24 B Spikes '1325 Guyton '11 
    OLB27 Ninkovich '11  
    LCB24 McCourty '1423 Dowling '14 
    RCB25 Arrington '12  
    SS24 Chung '1227 J Ihedigbo '11 
    FS27 J. Barrett '1223 S. Brown '13 
        
    SPECIAL TEAMS 3  
    PK27 Gostkowski '14 PS
    P24 Z. Mesko '13 Markell Carter
    LS23 D Aiken Dorin Dickerson
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]Tonight we get to see the Alabama's Safties. Barron and Lester, in a Big Game. I still like Lester, projected in 2nd round, playing to move up.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    This a game I know a number of us have been waiting for. There are players on both teams that I think could be attractive to the Pats for a number of reasons. Here's who I'm keeping an eye on tonight.

    LSU -

    • Rueben Randle WR- McNutt is still my #1 favorite WR the Pats could get but Randle is starting to move up and quickly is becoming my #2 even over Jones and Wright. Randle has great speed/quickness for his height and can work the middle of the field as well as the outside. The biggest question being against a Pro style secondary (namely Ala) has was shut down. This will be a great measuring stick to see if he can handle Pro style secondaries given a second attempt
    • T-Bob Hebert C- If he gets into the game Hebert has shown potential and you can see he takes very well to coaching. Might be an extremely late round or UDFA option at C with Scar coaching him up
    • Alex Hurst OT/G- IMO Hurst moves inside to G at the next level but that isn't a bad thing being 6'6" 340lb. He is a bruiser in the run game, decent pass protection, and his flexibility to move from T to G is only an asset as a later round pick. Having him and Cannon would create enormous depth at both T and G without having to having to take out a lot of spots at either position. He might be a hidden gem that BB can't resist if he picks up and extra 4th or 5th
    • Brandon Taylor S- This is a guy I think the Pats could and would target in the 3rd. He had a great season this year with LSU . He's fast and a dependable tackler and a pretty good coverage S to boot. He's a bit on the smaller end but handles himself well. It will be interesting to see how he handles over the top coverage against Ala's quicker WR's such as Maze

    Alabama -

    • William Vlachos C- A 3 year starter that lead one of the best running games in the nation. Against LSU previously he was beat early and often by the quicker and athletic DT's of LSU. Will be interesting to see if he can overcome this short coming
    • Dont'a Hightower ILB- I'm not as confident he could make a shift to a 34 OLB as MB is, I'm going to have to wait for combine numbers and workout tapes, he's still a fascinating player to watch. The talent and ability are outstanding and I'll esp be most interesting if they send him towards the edge or back in coverage. I'd love to see a couple cases where he has to chase players down or if he can rush from an outside lane tonight.
    • Mark Barron S- It's hard to imagine that he's used as the FS and Lester as the SS but that's how Ala uses them. I think Barron translates more to a SS at the next level so I'll be watching carefully how he handles himself in coverage tonight. How he sets himself up in zone, the angles he takes, and his tackling form (drives through the player or wraps them up). He's a heavy hitter but so are most of the Pats S's. I want a sure tackler more then a heavy hitter so I am very curious about his tackling form tonight.
    • Robert Lester S- As with Barron I want to see the same things, except I think Lester translates more to a FS at the next level. I'll be watching the same things as his counterpart tonight
    • DeQuan Menzie CB- Menzie hasn't gotten the praise that Kirkpatrick has seen but he is a solid man CB. His stock might be hurt because of Kirkpatrick, Lester, and Barron being on the same team but I only see it as a perk. Having 3 great DB's around him it seemed like an obvious conclusion that QB's would pick on Menzie yet he held his own. It will be interesting to see if he gets put against Randle at any point and to see how he handles the larger WR
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]I've seen a couple of mocks that have the Jets taking Barron at 16.  Is there a clear cut #2 S?
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    No real clear cut #2

    Right now there are 3 players that you can toss into that number:

    Robert Lester
    Bacarii Rambo (great name)
    Markelle Martin
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]I'm with Pats on this one. I just don't see Konz making it out of the top 20 truthfully and I wouldn't trade up for him either. Konz is very comparable to Pouncey last year and might actually be the more developed of the two (respective to when they came out). There are a number of teams that could really use a C in this up and coming draft picking well before the Pats and I just don't see Konz sneaking past all of them. Actually I can envision the Colts spending large this year and trading back into the late teens early 20's if Konz gets that far to draft him. Saturday is getting old and they will need a new C to protect their new face of the franchise in Luck. It makes all the sense in the world that the Colts will trade up and grab Konz before the Pats even get a chance at him
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    With Bill Polian gone, I'd say anything is possible with the Colts.  Prior, they never trade in the draft.  But I agree, I doubt Konz slips to the late 20s.  Cinci could use a Center too.  If Konz and Barron are both gone, which I think is likely the more I start looking at other team needs ahead of us, we might be looking at Hightower and a WR in Round 1.  But then again, knowing BB, he'll probably trade one of those #1s into next year although I noticed last year there seem to be fewer bad teams willing to deal future premium picks with us.

    I also agree with Pats on Ben Jones.  I think he will rise and could be a smart play at 49 with the Raider's pick.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Thanks bred, I think BB has tried to do exactly what you suggested during the last off season (as short as it was) by using late round picks to bring in productive veterans to plug needs, Haynesworth/Ocho/Carter/Ellis etc.  The problem with that approach, as we learned, high profile free agents are not always going to work out.  (Ask Andy Reid too.)  Carter was the only pleasant surprise. However, I totally agree with your view that we don't need 12-13 rookies each year.  We need 3-4 impact players.  I have taken our roster and deleted players that might be gone.  I kept Branch on a one-year deal but cut Ocho.  Connolly got more money to go somewhere else,  Koppen, Faulk, G Warren and Ellis retired.  What happens with Koppen, Connolly and Wendell will really dictate our needs.  If we lose Koppen and Connolly, the need at Center becomes #1.  Even if we keep Connolly, he hasn't been exactly durable but he and Wendell are versatile.  Losing either of these guys really means we need help on the interior OL since it seem Cannon is pretty much been used as RT and I'm not sure there are plans to kick him inside.  Even assuming Cannon is projected to take over at RG after 2012, we have only Wendell behind him and Mankins if we lose Connolly. If we get rid of Ocho, we really need 2 WR and I would argue one or both should be capable of stretching the field.  With Welker, Gronk and Hernandez, we have plenty of people capable of working the middle of the field.  I put an open position at TE but really we might not go there because Doren Dickerson is on the PS and he can back up Hernandez.  In power sets, BB used Solder as the second blocking TE. Defensively, I'm not sure we don't have fast LBs.  Mayo and Guyton are among the fastest in the league.  Spikes is slow.  But I think what you mean is we need LBs that can cover, and we certainly need an OLB that can get after the QB better than Ninko.  Cunningham is sure to be on a short leash this year.  His injury history reminds of Shawn Crable. Projected 2012 Roster OFFENSE 19 Players Slot 30 W Welker '11 25 Edelman '12   WR 33 Branch '11 26 M Slater '11   LOT 33 Light '12 23 N Solder '15   LG 30 Mankins '16     C   25 Wendell '11   ROG 34 B Waters '12     RT 27 Vollmer '12 23 M. Cannon '14   TE 23 Gronkowski '13 21 Hernandez '13   QB 34 Tom Brady '14 23 Mallett '14   RB 26 Green-Ellis '11 26 Woodhead '12     23 S. Ridley '14 23 S. Veeren '14   WR               DEFENSE 21 Players     DE   24 Deaderick '13 25 Love '11   NT 29 Wilfork '14 24 Brace '12   DE 32 A Carter '11 26 M Pryor '12   OLB 23 Cunningham '13 28 M Anderson '11   ILB 25 Mayo '17 25 Fletcher '12 30 White '11 ILB 24 B Spikes '13 25 Guyton '11   OLB 27 Ninkovich '11     LCB 24 McCourty '14 23 Dowling '14   RCB 25 Arrington '12     SS 24 Chung '12 27 J Ihedigbo '11   FS 27 J. Barrett '12 23 S. Brown '13           SPECIAL TEAMS 3     PK 27 Gostkowski '14   PS P 24 Z. Mesko '13   Markell Carter LS 23 D Aiken   Dorin Dickerson
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Hi Faucet,

    I agree with your points on the OLBs, reason I like Zach Brown.  I know he's an undersized player if you are looking at a 34 but in a 43 he's pure OLB that can rush and cover TEs/RBs actually he might be fast enough to cover some WRs.   Don't know if BB completely changes his views on size/weight of LBs but in a 43 with a heavy 4 down DL you can have this type player.  Denver has done a great job at this with Von miller, not that I'm saying Brown is in Miller's category but that type of role.

    On Cunningham, I would not be shocked actually will be relieved if he's done before camp is over.  I don't think he is more than a backup, he doesn't have the speed to be an everdown player.  Mention speed because he does have the size to play the run but he just doesn't get to the QB.

    I would like for them to replace him with a kid like Jake Bequette, 6'5" 271 reporterly runs under 4.7.  He has been a leader of Arkansas D has been a beast.  I want to see him in some LB drills see how fluid he is but as a pure DE he has the first step and strenght to create a pass rush.  None stop motor, brings it every play.  If BB doesn't go after one of the big name DEs early I keep my eye out for Bequette in the 3rd.

    If you get Brown in the 1st, Bradon Thompson DT in the 2nd and Bequette in the 3rd the 43/but D is improved IMO.  These picks are if BB commits to keeping that 43 D as the base. 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Man, Why isn't PatsEng writing for the Globe??? His stuff is so superior to the drivel we get from Bedard and Gasper and such that it astounds me. You would think the Globe editor would see this and make some moves. Or maybe he is just as arrogant as BB.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Man, Why isn't PatsEng writing for the Globe??? His stuff is so superior to the drivel we get from Bedard and Gasper and such that it astounds me. You would think the Globe editor would see this and make some moves. Or maybe he is just as arrogant as BB.
    Posted by pumpsiefan[/QUOTE]

    Sorry pump I'm too smart to write for the Globe. Besides I think MB and Faucet are better then me
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Actually, when you do the full mock, the likelihood of seeing all three available at 1A is not bad. so let's say 1A comes and all three were available... who do you pick?
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    It's a good question as I like all 3 kids a lot, have them rated in the same range, and all 3 fill a need/upgrade the roster, but given the choice of Barron, Hightower & Konz at 1A, my pre-FA choice would be Barron as IMO, he presents the most value.  1.)  I think he's one of the best defensive players available in this class and projects as a day 1 starter, 2.)  He fills a huge area of need at a relatively low cost, 3.)  It's basically Barron then a huge drop off in S talent at this point (could change if some of the underclassmen Lester, Rambo, McDonald etc., declare) so I'm targeting the sure thing.

    FA activity could certainly change my opinion, so we'll see what happens.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Thanks bred, I think BB has tried to do exactly what you suggested during the last off season (as short as it was) by using late round picks to bring in productive veterans to plug needs, Haynesworth/Ocho/Carter/Ellis etc.  The problem with that approach, as we learned, high profile free agents are not always going to work out.  (Ask Andy Reid too.)  Carter was the only pleasant surprise. However, I totally agree with your view that we don't need 12-13 rookies each year.  We need 3-4 impact players.  I have taken our roster and deleted players that might be gone.  I kept Branch on a one-year deal but cut Ocho.  Connolly got more money to go somewhere else,  Koppen, Faulk, G Warren and Ellis retired.  What happens with Koppen, Connolly and Wendell will really dictate our needs.  If we lose Koppen and Connolly, the need at Center becomes #1.  Even if we keep Connolly, he hasn't been exactly durable but he and Wendell are versatile.  Losing either of these guys really means we need help on the interior OL since it seem Cannon is pretty much been used as RT and I'm not sure there are plans to kick him inside.  Even assuming Cannon is projected to take over at RG after 2012, we have only Wendell behind him and Mankins if we lose Connolly. If we get rid of Ocho, we really need 2 WR and I would argue one or both should be capable of stretching the field.  With Welker, Gronk and Hernandez, we have plenty of people capable of working the middle of the field.  I put an open position at TE but really we might not go there because Doren Dickerson is on the PS and he can back up Hernandez.  In power sets, BB used Solder as the second blocking TE. Defensively, I'm not sure we don't have fast LBs.  Mayo and Guyton are among the fastest in the league.  Spikes is slow.  But I think what you mean is we need LBs that can cover, and we certainly need an OLB that can get after the QB better than Ninko.  Cunningham is sure to be on a short leash this year.  His injury history reminds of Shawn Crable. Projected 2012 Roster OFFENSE 19 Players Slot 30 W Welker '11 25 Edelman '12   WR 33 Branch '11 26 M Slater '11   LOT 33 Light '12 23 N Solder '15   LG 30 Mankins '16     C   25 Wendell '11   ROG 34 B Waters '12     RT 27 Vollmer '12 23 M. Cannon '14   TE 23 Gronkowski '13 21 Hernandez '13   QB 34 Tom Brady '14 23 Mallett '14   RB 26 Green-Ellis '11 26 Woodhead '12     23 S. Ridley '14 23 S. Veeren '14   WR               DEFENSE 21 Players     DE   24 Deaderick '13 25 Love '11   NT 29 Wilfork '14 24 Brace '12   DE 32 A Carter '11 26 M Pryor '12   OLB 23 Cunningham '13 28 M Anderson '11   ILB 25 Mayo '17 25 Fletcher '12 30 White '11 ILB 24 B Spikes '13 25 Guyton '11   OLB 27 Ninkovich '11     LCB 24 McCourty '14 23 Dowling '14   RCB 25 Arrington '12     SS 24 Chung '12 27 J Ihedigbo '11   FS 27 J. Barrett '12 23 S. Brown '13           SPECIAL TEAMS 3     PK 27 Gostkowski '14   PS P 24 Z. Mesko '13   Markell Carter LS 23 D Aiken   Dorin Dickerson
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet,
    Love the roster excel charts!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Sorry pump I'm too smart to write for the Globe. Besides I think MB and Faucet are better then me
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Don't sell yourself short, mang!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Gents, any chance Brandon Lloyd is an option as an UFA?  He'll be 31 next season but this year in a bad Rams team he finished with 700+ yards 14 yr average.

    He'll be familiar with the O somewhat and probably wants to compete for a ring.  If the Pats can resign WW, get Lloyd I still keep Ocho through camp see how that goes.  I don't see BB carrying as many RBs next season as he's doing this year.  With Ridley in his second season, learning more of the blocking scheme hope lawfirm is back then an extra WR could be an option.  

    BTW I still want Jarius Wright, that dude is just insane!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]I don't think Konz will be available when the Pats pick with their first 1st rnd pick.  I do think an OC is a real option in this draft, Connolly and Wendel have done a decent job but getting an OC with power and movement ability should be high on the wish list.  I keep mentioning Ben Jones, I've seen a ton of UGA games and I can't say I've always been looking at C but specially this year I've paid more attention to him and he's the real thing.  His stock will be solidified when he does movement type drills at the combine and pro day.  The style of O he plays in at Georgia is a pro style and has plenty of experience in both QB under center and shotgun.  He didn't allow a sack this year, that IMO is impressive in the SEC.  Has started every game the last two seasons and all but a hand full since freshman year.  Very durable and can't find a more experienced OL in the country.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    I like the Jones option as well, at somepoint on day 2.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Gents, any chance Brandon Lloyd is an option as an UFA?  He'll be 31 next season but this year in a bad Rams team he finished with 700+ yards 14 yr average. He'll be familiar with the O somewhat and probably wants to compete for a ring.  If the Pats can resign WW, get Lloyd I still keep Ocho through camp see how that goes.  I don't see BB carrying as many RBs next season as he's doing this year.  With Ridley in his second season, learning more of the blocking scheme hope lawfirm is back then an extra WR could be an option.   BTW I still want Jarius Wright, that dude is just insane!
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    I'd be a buyer on both Lloyd (assuming he's an UFA) and Wright in Rd 3-4.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Gents, any chance Brandon Lloyd is an option as an UFA?  He'll be 31 next season but this year in a bad Rams team he finished with 700+ yards 14 yr average. He'll be familiar with the O somewhat and probably wants to compete for a ring.  If the Pats can resign WW, get Lloyd I still keep Ocho through camp see how that goes.  I don't see BB carrying as many RBs next season as he's doing this year.  With Ridley in his second season, learning more of the blocking scheme hope lawfirm is back then an extra WR could be an option.   BTW I still want Jarius Wright, that dude is just insane!
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    I think it's more then a realistic possibility. Lloyd already came out and said that he wants to go where McDaniels goes, and this was well before McDaniels even had a hint of leaving StL. On top of that but Lloyd's most productive years came when he played in McDaniels system. So if Lloyd wants a SB and he was serious about McDaniels, which I have zero reason to believe otherwise, he'd want to come to NE. Now does NE want him is the question. Since they did try to acquire him once this year I'm going with yes. He is a fast WR who can work the sideline and has excellent hands. He has proven to get open and more importantly catch the ball in both single and dbl coverage situations. The only thing I can see preventing Lloyd from coming to NE is want he demands for a contract truthfully. If he's willing to take high #2 WR money I don't see a chance NE doesn't sign him
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : I'd be a buyer on both Lloyd (assuming he's an UFA) and Wright in Rd 3-4.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure if T.J. Graham will be invited to the combine, if he is keep an eye out for that kid.  He's a WR/PR/KR, unlike Tate this kid has WR skills, 6'0" 185lbs and just brings speed.  Track and field sprinter, takes the top off Ds and tracks the ball well over the shoulder, he has good hands.  Plays for NC State.  If Wright is gone I take Graham in the 6th or 7th, if he goes to the combine the Raiders draft him in the 3rd.
     
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