***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]Wow, LSU DL Michael Brockers (6-6 305) (the next Richard Seymour) is a flat out stud, kid just beat what looked to be a triple team to make a play behind the LOS, force a FG. Believe he's a RS Soph, but haven't heard any word of him declaring, would prob end up as a top 5-10 pick if he did.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    I think it was he who blocked a FG too.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    interesting scenario:

    posing a draft scenario after using a pro site 1/9 update.

    with us at 31, they give us cordy glenn guard ga,
     they give gb merclius at 32, sanu taken at 30 by sf

    if mercilus is there at 31, i think i take him at 31. you?



    at 29, they have burfict going to baltimore,
    they have us at 28 taking barron

    for me, even if we had not picked up a fs free agent which i plan on them doing
    i would take burfict assuming he checks out for us we think he can be a good character. (tell me ray lewis didnt have character concerns [no one knew his exact involvement in that killing], and how long has he been the on field coach and mentor for that defense.

    if we still needed the fs, lester in the second.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    3rd question, same draft,
    do you trade up for any of these instead?

    hightower goes at 25 to the giants
    stil 24 to the broncos
    ingram 23
    minnefield 22
    konz 19
    brown 18
    janoris jenkins 17
    perry 16
    preceded by jeffrey, dennard, floyd, upsahw, reif, keuchly, kirpatrick, rest is predictable

    so the top dbs gone, top lbs gone except burfict, still is gone, taylor gone.

    thouhgts?




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    When these kids have to declare for the draft is it the 13th?
     
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    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Mb maybe, not me, I've been out of it too much this year.  You take the job, lol.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    But, I don't want it to />.<

    I know we'll give it to King, he'll take anything
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]interesting scenario: posing a draft scenario after using a pro site 1/9 update. with us at 31, they give us cordy glenn guard ga,  they give gb merclius at 32, sanu taken at 30 by sf if mercilus is there at 31, i think i take him at 31. you? at 29, they have burfict going to baltimore, they have us at 28 taking barron for me, even if we had not picked up a fs free agent which i plan on them doing i would take burfict assuming he checks out for us we think he can be a good character. (tell me ray lewis didnt have character concerns [no one knew his exact involvement in that killing], and how long has he been the on field coach and mentor for that defense. if we still needed the fs, lester in the second. -------------------------------------------------------------------- 3rd question, same draft, do you trade up for any of these instead? hightower goes at 25 to the giants stil 24 to the broncos ingram 23 minnefield 22 konz 19 brown 18 janoris jenkins 17 perry 16 preceded by jeffrey, dennard, floyd, upsahw, reif, keuchly, kirpatrick, rest is predictable so the top dbs gone, top lbs gone except burfict, still is gone, taylor gone. thouhgts?
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]

    Hey brd some interesting questions

    1) I would take Mercilus over Glenn. Though I think Glenn has a good shot of being a great guard right now we have Mankins long term (so I don't want to spend a 1st on a RG), Waters for another year, and I honestly believe Cannon will take over long term as the other starting G. I do think Cannon has just as much ability as Glenn does.

    2) Barron I'm up in the air about. I do like the thought of moving McCourty to FS, given his abilities, and if they grab a Goldson or Griffin in FA I wouldn't feel comfortable grabbing a S with the first pick. Although Barron is the best S in the draft I'm also wondering if his stock might be overly inflated because of the overall weak draft. Barron is a good player but comparatively to other 1st round S's taken in past drafts I'm not sure if his talent level matches up to those pars. I'm starting to debate on whether grabbing a S in this years draft is even worth it or if grabbing a FA and moving McCourty to FS might be the best overall move.

    3) I don't like moving up in this draft because the value isn't there at all. People are going to reach on the D side of the ball because of the lack of top end talent and I question what it would take to move up to the early 20's late teens. But, if I had to move up it would be for either Ingram or Still's at this point. I'll explain why not Hightower in my assessment of last nights game and he would remain a possibility to move up for but I'll wait until I see some workout numbers first
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : But, I don't want it to />.< I know we'll give it to King, he'll take anything
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    laughing..... :)
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Hey brd some interesting questions 1) I would take Mercilus over Glenn. Though I think Glenn has a good shot of being a great guard right now we have Mankins long term (so I don't want to spend a 1st on a RG), Waters for another year, and I honestly believe Cannon will take over long term as the other starting G. I do think Cannon has just as much ability as Glenn does. 2) Barron I'm up in the air about. I do like the thought of moving McCourty to FS, given his abilities, and if they grab a Goldson or Griffin in FA I wouldn't feel comfortable grabbing a S with the first pick. Although Barron is the best S in the draft I'm also wondering if his stock might be overly inflated because of the overall weak draft. Barron is a good player but comparatively to other 1st round S's taken in past drafts I'm not sure if his talent level matches up to those pars. I'm starting to debate on whether grabbing a S in this years draft is even worth it or if grabbing a FA and moving McCourty to FS might be the best overall move. 3) I don't like moving up in this draft because the value isn't there at all. People are going to reach on the D side of the ball because of the lack of top end talent and I question what it would take to move up to the early 20's late teens. But, if I had to move up it would be for either Ingram or Still's at this point. I'll explain why not Hightower in my assessment of last nights game and he would remain a possibility to move up for but I'll wait until I see some workout numbers first
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    sounds good.
    i'm thining though we may only have to move up past a few teams like pittsburgh to land say hightower or one of teh top tier lbs that come toward us.

    you dont like lester in the second if we dont land a fs in f.a.?

    oh and you never mentioned if the option of burfict there, what would you do?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Hey brd some interesting questions 1) I would take Mercilus over Glenn. Though I think Glenn has a good shot of being a great guard right now we have Mankins long term (so I don't want to spend a 1st on a RG), Waters for another year, and I honestly believe Cannon will take over long term as the other starting G. I do think Cannon has just as much ability as Glenn does. 2) Barron I'm up in the air about. I do like the thought of moving McCourty to FS, given his abilities, and if they grab a Goldson or Griffin in FA I wouldn't feel comfortable grabbing a S with the first pick. Although Barron is the best S in the draft I'm also wondering if his stock might be overly inflated because of the overall weak draft. Barron is a good player but comparatively to other 1st round S's taken in past drafts I'm not sure if his talent level matches up to those pars. I'm starting to debate on whether grabbing a S in this years draft is even worth it or if grabbing a FA and moving McCourty to FS might be the best overall move. 3) I don't like moving up in this draft because the value isn't there at all. People are going to reach on the D side of the ball because of the lack of top end talent and I question what it would take to move up to the early 20's late teens. But, if I had to move up it would be for either Ingram or Still's at this point. I'll explain why not Hightower in my assessment of last nights game and he would remain a possibility to move up for but I'll wait until I see some workout numbers first
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PatsEng,
    I'm with you on not taking a G in round 1. We should be fairly set at that position for at least next year. We have to address defense early and often. Mercilus would be a no brainer over a G when we pick first. I have seen some compare him to JPP of the Giants. If he is in that ilk, no brainer for me if we are running 4-3.

    I want to see how McCourty plays Safety this weekend vs. the Broncos. Although not a prolific passing team (up until last week ha ha), he should get a decent test given Timmy is a dual threat. I have to imagine given an offseason to really learn the position, that he would excel there. I believe the duo of Chung/McCourty is a solid one, and McCourty will be the ballhawking safety we need. Barron skill set in my mind seems a split between the 2 of Chung and McCourty. I still think we need to take one, but if we do go Chung/McCourty, I'll look later in the draft for a safety.

    So, what do you do at CB? Assuming you move McCourty to S full time. Burn a 2nd on a CB and/or look to FA? Personally, at CB I look to bring in a mid-priced FA to compete at starting, and use a 4th-6th on a CB in the draft unless one slips and there is too much value not to pick him.

    My ideal draft scenario is for BB to address the front 7 on Defense and in a big way. I want to add speed to the front 7, and guys that can flat out tackle and get to the QB.

    Anyone, thoughts on the below player comparisons
    1. Mercilus vs. Curry (which do you like for the Pats playing 4-3 RDE?)
    2. Thompson vs. Still vs. Wolfe vs. Cox (Interior 4-3 DT, 4-3 DE?)



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    My analysis of the Ala and LSU game. Unfortunately, we didn't learn much from last night other then the Ala front 7 were just plain dominant. Outside of the trenches Jefferson didn't have enough time to let routes develop so it's very hard to make any judgement calls on the Ala secondary or LSU WR's. As such here's what I saw out of the players MB and I mentioned.
    LSU -

    • Rueben Randle WR-Didn't see much from Randle mainly due to his QB (Jefferson) having rushers on his back after 2 steps. 2-3s is not a lot of time to develop any receiving routes and Randle was hurt tremendously by that lack of time. He did managed to get involved in a couple of screen plays though. When asked to block he seemed disinterested and was a relatively poor blocker which does not bode well for the Pats system. Though on one screen he received Kirkpatrick nailed Randle right as the ball hit his hands and not only held onto it but actually stayed upright. That's a big positive that he can take a hit, stay on his feet, and hold onto the ball. Overall last night didn't help or hurt his stock
    • T-Bob Hebert C- I saw appearances of Hebert as LSU tried almost everything to counter what Ala was throwing at them. unfortunately for Hebert he looked lost at times and was moved at will backwards or laterally. This one game has take him out as a possible Pats pick for me. His stock was hurt by this game
    • Alex Hurst OT/G- Hurst had a rough night but that is bound to happen when you have arguable the most dominant DE/OLB prospect (Upshaw) lined up across from you. What hurt Hurst the most was Upshaw's quick burst and athleticism. To many times Hurst lost his assignment and was caught looking inside rather then out whiffing on key blocks against Upshaw. For me it solidified his position at the next level to be a RG with a flex T option against larger slower D's. If you are looking at him as a G his stock remained neutral, if you are looking at him as a T it was most definitely hurt last night
    • Brandon Taylor S- Taylor had a rather James Sanders'ist (circa 07') type of performance. There were times where his coverage was excellent and he had his guy blanketed with good angles to the ball and then there were times where he was beat badly, he broke on bad angles, or his zone left huge gaps. All in all I think it showed 2 things: 1) the reason why he'll be a late 2nd early 3rd day pick and 2) how weak this S draft class is. His stock should remain neutral

    Alabama -

    • Marquis Maze WR- Was injured early with a hammy. I didn't really consider Maze an option for the Pats to begin with considering he translates to a slot guy in the Pro's but now with the hammy I'd be cautious even more. If it's one thing about hammies it's they either tighten up and can be worked out or the is a bigger issue that will re-appear over their career. Considering it was his final game for a national title and he couldn't get back in I'm wondering if it's the latter. Sad because this kid had great potential as a slot guy. Overall though if he can come back and workout strong his stock should remain nuetral
    • William Vlachos C- Vlachos was just over powered by the speed and strength of the LSU DL. He kept them in check at times but was taken out of his spot and driven backwards to often. It almost looked like he was back on his heels the entire game trying to adjust to what the LSU DL was throwing at him. I've removed him as a potential draft option for the Pats. His stock was hurt by last nights game
    • Dont'a Hightower ILB- Here's the one I'm going to get killed over. Overall Hightower had an excellent game and if you view him as an interior LB then his stock rose last night. He looked quick, let the gaps develop before shooting through them, made great lane decisions, and was very strong at POA. What's the issue I have? well what I wanted to see I didn't see. He looked slow moving laterally losing steps when the LSU ball carriers bounced outside. It was fine since they had Lester and Barron on each edge making up the difference but it raised real concerns for me if he could cover the distance from hash to sideline quick enough against the quicker RB's and TE's in the Pro's (if you place him as a 34 OLB). I also didn't see much in the way of a C or E gap rush. They kept him almost exclusively inside never bouncing out of the B gap. As a potential 34 OLB imo his stock dropped a little but as a ILB/MLB his stock raised. The final determination if he could move outside might come at the combine with his 10yard split and cone numbers though.
    • Mark Barron S- Some good and some bad things shown by Barron last night. Overall I think he had a good game but with the front 7 being so dominant it's hard to look bad if you only need to cover for 2-3s. Some good things last night was that he set himself up well in the zone and put himself into great position to make plays. He was patient and stayed in his assignment until it was clear the play was broken. Once broken he made good decision replacing himself at the right position. He secured the edge well and kept any plays in front of him. The bad, his 1 solo tackle. I know it's not much to go by but he looked like he was more interested to cement his rep as a hard hitter rather then wrap up. Normally I wouldn't think of it but I really wanted to see him wrap up more then try to hit hard. His stock overall remained neutral
    • Robert Lester S- Like Barron, Lester couldn't show much due to the domination of the front 7. He played well on the edge against the run and knowing when to leave the zone during broken plays with the QB scrambling. However, he was pulled to often inside leaving big windows for the LSU WR's down the sideline. If Jefferson had just an extra second or two that window would have been exploited. I might be because he had Kirkpatrick on his side but that brings another question mark. Without that #1 CB and Barron next to him would his impatience leaving the zone to move inside hurt the team or is that because he has Kirkpatrick and Barron he's willing to take more risks. Overall he didn't have a great game in coverage and this might cause him to decide to stay in school truthfully hurting an already weak S draft class.
    • DeQuan Menzie CB- I honestly don't remember seeing him all game. I know he was dealing with some nagging injures to his groin and hammy so it might have limited his played or took him out completely but it was either a case of him not playing at all or having a good game since I don't remember anything about him. Anyone else see or remember anything from Menzie?
    • Josh Chapman DT/NT- Chapman performed just as I thought he would, solidly. He did his job stayed in his lane and clogged the hole. Stat wise he didn't have a great game but footage wise he was just a solid player, nothing spectacular. His stock remains neutral and I just don't see him being more then a backup in the Pro's

    Clearly the star of the game and the person who helped his stock out the most was kicker Shelley... just kidding it was obviously Upshaw. He might have just made himself a ton of cash last night moving into a possible top 10 slot.



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : PatsEng, I'm with you on not taking a G in round 1. We should be fairly set at that position for at least next year. We have to address defense early and often. Mercilus would be a no brainer over a G when we pick first. I have seen some compare him to JPP of the Giants. If he is in that ilk, no brainer for me if we are running 4-3. I want to see how McCourty plays Safety this weekend vs. the Broncos. Although not a prolific passing team (up until last week ha ha), he should get a decent test given Timmy is a dual threat. I have to imagine given an offseason to really learn the position, that he would excel there. I believe the duo of Chung/McCourty is a solid one, and McCourty will be the ballhawking safety we need. Barron skill set in my mind seems a split between the 2 of Chung and McCourty. I still think we need to take one, but if we do go Chung/McCourty, I'll look later in the draft for a safety. So, what do you do at CB? Assuming you move McCourty to S full time. Burn a 2nd on a CB and/or look to FA? Personally, at CB I look to bring in a mid-priced FA to compete at starting, and use a 4th-6th on a CB in the draft unless one slips and there is too much value not to pick him. My ideal draft scenario is for BB to address the front 7 on Defense and in a big way. I want to add speed to the front 7, and guys that can flat out tackle and get to the QB. Anyone, thoughts on the below player comparisons 1. Mercilus vs. Curry (which do you like for the Pats playing 4-3 RDE?) 2. Thompson vs. Still vs. Wolfe vs. Cox (Interior 4-3 DT, 4-3 DE?)
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Hey Lifer,

    If we push McCourty to FS I think you need to replace him with a vet. The secondary is extremely young right now and adding another rook to the mix isn't going to help. I do think you need a vet presence on one side of the field that won't need the extra help overtop so you can put the FS over Ras/Arrington.

    As for the difference with Mercilus verses Curry you are really talking the difference between consistency and potential. Mercilus has the higher upside but has only performed over a single year. Curry has been one of the most consistent pass rushers in the draft. I think we see Curry's potential and I think he is what he is at this point, a pass rushing specialist that is a liability against the run. Not sure if he can put his hand down at this point and might be exclusively a 34 OLB edge rusher. Mercilus on the other hand can set and edge and can stand his ground. He has a little trouble shedding blocks on the edge but as a rusher he has a lot of moves and surprising speed and strength off the edge. I think JPP is an appropriate comparison. I think he has the potential to play 43 DE or a rushing 34 OLB, I just wouldn't trust him in coverage. Depending on how they switch from 43 to 34 he could potentially be a 2-3 down player. The biggest question is if he is a one year wonder. If Ingram is gone Mercilus might be the next best option.

    With the DT/DE's all are good choices honestly but each have their issues.

    I really like Still's and think he has the perfect size and speed to play a 3 tech or a 5 tech in both a 43 and 34. He's got a great motor and could be a very effective rusher from the edge on creating pressure from inside. Unfortunately because of the weakness of the DT class I don't think he makes it to us in the late 2nd.

    Thompson is one of the best run defenders in the draft with a playing style similar to Ty Warren but I don't envision him generating much of a pass rush truthfully. He can drive lineman backwards creating opportunity for other players to make plays but it's rare he'll make them himself. More of a disruptive force and less of a play maker imo

    Cox seems to have Still's type of potential playing either 3 tech or 5 tech but has issues following team rules (suspension for multiple violations) and has consistency issues. After the suspension he got off to a very slow start which might have hurt him worse then the suspension. There is concern about his motivation and drive at times. Truthfully he needs to rebuild his image and should stay in school to do so

    Wolfe is quickly becoming my favorite DL in the draft. He has great tools and an excellent motor with high leadership qualities. He can get pancaked by larger OL and disappears against dbl teams but the potential is there. With a little refinement and technique exercises I think he could be a steal in the 2nd. I really do see him as having 1st round talent yet to be utilized
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]interesting scenario: posing a draft scenario after using a pro site 1/9 update. with us at 31, they give us cordy glenn guard ga,  they give gb merclius at 32, sanu taken at 30 by sf if mercilus is there at 31, i think i take him at 31. you? at 29, they have burfict going to baltimore, they have us at 28 taking barron for me, even if we had not picked up a fs free agent which i plan on them doing i would take burfict assuming he checks out for us we think he can be a good character. (tell me ray lewis didnt have character concerns [no one knew his exact involvement in that killing], and how long has he been the on field coach and mentor for that defense. if we still needed the fs, lester in the second. -------------------------------------------------------------------- 3rd question, same draft, do you trade up for any of these instead? hightower goes at 25 to the giants stil 24 to the broncos ingram 23 minnefield 22 konz 19 brown 18 janoris jenkins 17 perry 16 preceded by jeffrey, dennard, floyd, upsahw, reif, keuchly, kirpatrick, rest is predictable so the top dbs gone, top lbs gone except burfict, still is gone, taylor gone. thouhgts?
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    As of now, the highest our picks can be are 27/28, the lowest, of course, 31/32.  I think Barron and Konz will both be gone before 27, probably 21, as anytime you have the top player at a position on the board and a team with need, a reach of 10 spots or so to fill that need isn't unusual.  I could see Barron going as high as the Jets at 16 and Konz to the Bengals at 21.


    As far as the LB discussion goes, can we agree there are no top 10 LBs this year?  Then you have Ingram, Perry, Kuechly, Upshaw, Brown, Hightower, Montgomery and Mercilus all projected in the 10-32 range.  Team need and math would seem to suggest a couple of these guys should be available late 20s.

    Looking at our roster, I like the idea of adding a big run stuffer who can run in the middle like Hightower.  Play him alongside Spikes and move Mayo outside as we've seen some this year.  You can then have Fletcher or Ninko on the other side.  If we could somehow get Upshaw, then I think we are set with Mayo/Spikes/Fletcher in the middle with Upshaw and Ninko on the edge.  I've actually seen a mock recently that had Upshaw lasting until 32 going to GB.

    In any event, we should be able to get a stud LB with one of those top picks.  Assuming we do and Barron and Konz are gone, would we go WR with the other?

    Have you guys talked about Alshon Jeffery lately?  I know he had a bit of an off year compared to last and got into a little trouble.  I know we got burned before taking a Steve Spurrier WR (Chad Jackson) and I know that Jeffery can be a little sloppy in his routes but there is no denying his physical skill set and having Brady throwing to him, the sky's the limit for this kid.  I bring him up only because I saw one mock having us taking him at 31.

    Can you imagine putting Jeffery on the outside with Welker and Gronk working the middle of the field and Hernandez coming out of the backfield and working the flat?  ...and don't forget Shane Vereen or Ridley (both excellent receivers), what they could bring to the passing game too. 

     
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Hey Faucet -

    I really don't like Jeffery because of the reasons you mentioned, lol. Brady doesn't enjoy teaching WR's how to run routes in the least. He tends to give up and just refuses to throw to them if they aren't understanding the system and are where they are suppose to be. Jeffery has been called a hard working WR that is very lazy in his route running during the game. He uses his size and athleticism to make up for poor routes and lazy cuts but that won't cut it at the next level. Add that to his personality and it's a bad combination that he and Brady will butt heads at some point

    His diva issues could translate to off-field concerns very easily, look at Bryant for example. There were rumors Dallas might cut him a couple of points over this last year. We're talkin about Bryant's talent level being a 1st round pick and almost getting cut after 1 year? Diva WR's are hard to control and with this team I don't see diva WR's meshing with the current set of players very well (might be a reason he falls to us or even completely out of the 1st)

    His other red flags are conditioning and weight. This scares me as his speed is almost a linear correlation to his weight. If he can get down to the low 220's he has wheels to burn but if he travels back up to 240's again he's very sluggish and can't generate separation at all. That comes from being physically more gifted then the opponents around him and just being lazy about it. It's a very hard habit to break (Haynesworth, White) and could easily knock him off the team quickly, as BB is all about conditioning.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

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    [QUOTE]My analysis of the Ala and LSU game. Unfortunately, we didn't learn much from last night other then the Ala front 7 were just plain dominant. Outside of the trenches Jefferson didn't have enough time to let routes develop so it's very hard to make any judgement calls on the Ala secondary or LSU WR's. As such here's what I saw out of the players MB and I mentioned. LSU - Rueben Randle WR -Didn't see much from Randle mainly due to his QB (Jefferson) having rushers on his back after 2 steps. 2-3s is not a lot of time to develop any receiving routes and Randle was hurt tremendously by that lack of time. He did managed to get involved in a couple of screen plays though. When asked to block he seemed disinterested and was a relatively poor blocker which does not bode well for the Pats system. Though on one screen he received Kirkpatrick nailed Randle right as the ball hit his hands and not only held onto it but actually stayed upright. That's a big positive that he can take a hit, stay on his feet, and hold onto the ball. Overall last night didn't help or hurt his stock T-Bob Hebert C - I saw appearances of Hebert as LSU tried almost everything to counter what Ala was throwing at them. unfortunately for Hebert he looked lost at times and was moved at will backwards or laterally. This one game has take him out as a possible Pats pick for me. His stock was hurt by this game Alex Hurst OT/G - Hurst had a rough night but that is bound to happen when you have arguable the most dominant DE/OLB prospect (Upshaw) lined up across from you. What hurt Hurst the most was Upshaw's quick burst and athleticism. To many times Hurst lost his assignment and was caught looking inside rather then out whiffing on key blocks against Upshaw. For me it solidified his position at the next level to be a RG with a flex T option against larger slower D's. If you are looking at him as a G his stock remained neutral, if you are looking at him as a T it was most definitely hurt last night Brandon Taylor S - Taylor had a rather James Sanders'ist (circa 07') type of performance. There were times where his coverage was excellent and he had his guy blanketed with good angles to the ball and then there were times where he was beat badly, he broke on bad angles, or his zone left huge gaps. All in all I think it showed 2 things: 1) the reason why he'll be a late 2nd early 3rd day pick and 2) how weak this S draft class is. His stock should remain neutral Alabama - Marquis Maze WR - Was injured early with a hammy. I didn't really consider Maze an option for the Pats to begin with considering he translates to a slot guy in the Pro's but now with the hammy I'd be cautious even more. If it's one thing about hammies it's they either tighten up and can be worked out or the is a bigger issue that will re-appear over their career. Considering it was his final game for a national title and he couldn't get back in I'm wondering if it's the latter. Sad because this kid had great potential as a slot guy. Overall though if he can come back and workout strong his stock should remain nuetral William Vlachos C - Vlachos was just over powered by the speed and strength of the LSU DL. He kept them in check at times but was taken out of his spot and driven backwards to often. It almost looked like he was back on his heels the entire game trying to adjust to what the LSU DL was throwing at him. I've removed him as a potential draft option for the Pats. His stock was hurt by last nights game Dont'a Hightower ILB - Here's the one I'm going to get killed over. Overall Hightower had an excellent game and if you view him as an interior LB then his stock rose last night. He looked quick, let the gaps develop before shooting through them, made great lane decisions, and was very strong at POA. What's the issue I have? well what I wanted to see I didn't see. He looked slow moving laterally losing steps when the LSU ball carriers bounced outside. It was fine since they had Lester and Barron on each edge making up the difference but it raised real concerns for me if he could cover the distance from hash to sideline quick enough against the quicker RB's and TE's in the Pro's (if you place him as a 34 OLB). I also didn't see much in the way of a C or E gap rush. They kept him almost exclusively inside never bouncing out of the B gap. As a potential 34 OLB imo his stock dropped a little but as a ILB/MLB his stock raised. The final determination if he could move outside might come at the combine with his 10yard split and cone numbers though. Mark Barron S - Some good and some bad things shown by Barron last night. Overall I think he had a good game but with the front 7 being so dominant it's hard to look bad if you only need to cover for 2-3s. Some good things last night was that he set himself up well in the zone and put himself into great position to make plays. He was patient and stayed in his assignment until it was clear the play was broken. Once broken he made good decision replacing himself at the right position. He secured the edge well and kept any plays in front of him. The bad, his 1 solo tackle. I know it's not much to go by but he looked like he was more interested to cement his rep as a hard hitter rather then wrap up. Normally I wouldn't think of it but I really wanted to see him wrap up more then try to hit hard. His stock overall remained neutral Robert Lester S - Like Barron, Lester couldn't show much due to the domination of the front 7. He played well on the edge against the run and knowing when to leave the zone during broken plays with the QB scrambling. However, he was pulled to often inside leaving big windows for the LSU WR's down the sideline. If Jefferson had just an extra second or two that window would have been exploited. I might be because he had Kirkpatrick on his side but that brings another question mark. Without that #1 CB and Barron next to him would his impatience leaving the zone to move inside hurt the team or is that because he has Kirkpatrick and Barron he's willing to take more risks. Overall he didn't have a great game in coverage and this might cause him to decide to stay in school truthfully hurting an already weak S draft class. DeQuan Menzie CB - I honestly don't remember seeing him all game. I know he was dealing with some nagging injures to his groin and hammy so it might have limited his played or took him out completely but it was either a case of him not playing at all or having a good game since I don't remember anything about him. Anyone else see or remember anything from Menzie? Josh Chapman DT/NT- Chapman performed just as I thought he would, solidly. He did his job stayed in his lane and clogged the hole. Stat wise he didn't have a great game but footage wise he was just a solid player, nothing spectacular. His stock remains neutral and I just don't see him being more then a backup in the Pro's Clearly the star of the game and the person who helped his stock out the most was kicker Shelley... just kidding it was obviously Upshaw. He might have just made himself a ton of cash last night moving into a possible top 10 slot.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Good stuff... I need a DVR.  Live TV only allows you to watch one player consistently at a time... hopefully I'll be able to find the game online.

    RE: Barron-  Believe his 1 solo tackle may have been on the 1st offensive play of the game where he quickly read run, flew in to blow up the RB near the LOS.

    RE: Menzie- Once positive play that stuck out to me, believe is an option left, Menzie stayed home, read the play accurately, beat his blocker and made the play on the ball carrier, limiting the play to minimal gain (maybe 1-2 yards if I remember correctly).

    RE: Hightower- I just didn't seem much that would give me concern of him consistently holding up off the edge in a 34. Afterall, they limited LSU to 1.4 YPC (27-39) and while he only registered 4 tackles, he did have 1 sack, 1.5 TFL and 1 FF.

    Overall, just a smothering performance the 'Bama D which as you pointed out, made it tough to evaluate, particularly  in the secondary as Jefferson either had little to no time to throw, couldn't find an open man (positive for the secondary) or it was a run play that was quickly swallowed up by the front 7.  I did keep an eye on Barron on almost every play though and he always seemed to show up in the picture/near the football, ready to make a tackle, though in most cases it wasn't needed... good to see him consistenly flow to the football though.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Call me crazy but I feel the Patriots will be more aggressive this draft targeting defensive players.  I see them moving up to get Courtney Upshaw and maybe Dont'a Hightower.  They'll probably have to trade one of their 2nd round picks to get Upshaw but he fits this defense perfectly.  Good pass rusher and stout against the run.  He'll need to work on pass coverage but he's been working in a complex defense at Alabama. 

    I see Hightower playing all linebacker positions in a 4-3 or 3-4.  He has some decent pass rush skills and can cover more ground than Spikes.  Both guys can play with their hands in the dirt in a 4-3. 

    As far as safety I see McCourty making a big impact as a cover safety paired with Chung.  In the second round I see them picking up a Leonard Johnson from Iowa State.  A physical corner who played well against Blackmon and McNutt.  I still think you draft a safety later on like a Winston Guy from Kentucky or Matt Daniels from Duke. 

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    Wisconsin C Peter Konz has declared for the 2012 draft.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Good stuff... I need a DVR.  Live TV only allows you to watch one player consistently at a time... hopefully I'll be able to find the game online. RE: Barron -  Believe his 1 solo tackle may have been on the 1st offensive play of the game where he quickly read run, flew in to blow up the RB near the LOS. RE: Menzie - Once positive play that stuck out to me, believe is an option left, Menzie stayed home, read the play accurately, beat his blocker and made the play on the ball carrier, limiting the play to minimal gain (maybe 1-2 yards if I remember correctly). RE: Hightower - I just didn't seem much that would give me concern of him consistently holding up off the edge in a 34. Afterall, they limited LSU to 1.4 YPC (27-39) and while he only registered 4 tackles, he did have 1 sack, 1.5 TFL and 1 FF. Overall, just a smothering performance the 'Bama D which as you pointed out, made it tough to evaluate, particularly  in the secondary as Jefferson either had little to no time to throw, couldn't find an open man (positive for the secondary) or it was a run play that was quickly swallowed up by the front 7.  I did keep an eye on Barron on almost every play though and he always seemed to show up in the picture/near the football, ready to make a tackle, though in most cases it wasn't needed... good to see him consistenly flow to the football though.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Hey MB,

    yeah this game was really hard to draw any conclusions from (except from the lines) so most of my thoughts are exactly where I had them going into the game.

    On Barron, he was always in the right position and you could tell because as you said he was always in the screen at the end of the play. He positions himself much better then I originally thought which was a plus. That one negative I had isn't really even a negative since it was 1 tackle. Honestly, like I said I want my S's to be solid tackler's, whether that's through Chung type hits or b by wrapping up. All I know is wrapping up will always succeed at the next level while big hits don't always translate. Of course that one big hit did come while standing a RB up so it begs the question of did he go for the big hit because it's a RB (which if he did then that dangerous in the Pro's) or was it because he just wanted to stall him to get more players behind him (something Harrison use to do often against bigger backs). I wish LSU had a passing game last night because I really wanted to see Barron's tackling form. I guess I'll have to wait for the senior bowl I guess

    Yeah for some odd reason I don't remember anything about Menzie and I was excited about him as a possible mid round pick, so if you noticed him playing then he did his job. I truly believe if a CB does there job you shouldn't hear anything about them. That's because they have their guy so thoroughly covered QB's won't ever throw in their direction.

    Hightower had a great game but because he never moved outside the box the question in my mind still remains as to if he can move outside the box. I was looking specifically for if Hightower ever moved outside his comfort zone and traveled outside of the box but because the OLB's and S's had the edges so well sealed off he never had to move full pace to track down a runner and they never rushed him off the edge. His cone numbers and 10 split though should give some idea if he has the speed to move outside. I my mind I have not doubt he has the instincts, intelligence, and agility to move outside but without the hash to sideline quickness those are moot points if a slot WR or RB can outrun him to the edge for a 1st.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Hey MB, yeah this game was really hard to draw any conclusions from (except from the lines) so most of my thoughts are exactly where I had them going into the game. On Barron, he was always in the right position and you could tell because as you said he was always in the screen at the end of the play. He positions himself much better then I originally thought which was a plus. That one negative I had isn't really even a negative since it was 1 tackle. Honestly, like I said I want my S's to be solid tackler's, whether that's through Chung type hits or b by wrapping up. All I know is wrapping up will always succeed at the next level while big hits don't always translate. Of course that one big hit did come while standing a RB up so it begs the question of did he go for the big hit because it's a RB (which if he did then that dangerous in the Pro's) or was it because he just wanted to stall him to get more players behind him (something Harrison use to do often against bigger backs). I wish LSU had a passing game last night because I really wanted to see Barron's tackling form. I guess I'll have to wait for the senior bowl I guess Yeah for some odd reason I don't remember anything about Menzie and I was excited about him as a possible mid round pick, so if you noticed him playing then he did his job. I truly believe if a CB does there job you shouldn't hear anything about them. That's because they have their guy so thoroughly covered QB's won't ever throw in their direction. Hightower had a great game but because he never moved outside the box the question in my mind still remains as to if he can move outside the box. I was looking specifically for if Hightower ever moved outside his comfort zone and traveled outside of the box but because the OLB's and S's had the edges so well sealed off he never had to move full pace to track down a runner and they never rushed him off the edge. His cone numbers and 10 split though should give some idea if he has the speed to move outside. I my mind I have not doubt he has the instincts, intelligence, and agility to move outside but without the hash to sideline quickness those are moot points if a slot WR or RB can outrun him to the edge for a 1st.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Prior to this playoff game against Alabama, LSU appeared to have a very dominant front 7.  That LSU was completely out-classed in the playoff game could be due to better preparation/ better coaching/ better communication  on the Alabama front 7. When each member of the front 7 is doing their job it should not be surprising that we have difficulty seeing dominance by any one player. 

    Several posters have indirectly supported this point by grading  Alabama defensive players as "neutral" as regards their performance relative to draft status. It seems odd that Alabama players can demonstrate complete defensive dominance yet be individually graded as "neutral"??? Are we forgetting that football is a TEAM concept?

    Which addresses yet another reminder, one game should not determine a player's worth...good or bad... until the body of his work is evaluated.  While a particularly strong or good performance does lend validity to an otherwise great body of work, I assume that the grade "neutral" was meant to say that a given player performed as expected and in the case of LSU, perhaps a given player (and TEAM) had one of their poorest performances.

    One last thought, when a TEAM becomes completely demoralized (especially a quarterback under relentless pressure) such that they cannot remain competitive, the offense looks sluggish and the defense stays too long on the field until exhaustion cripples their competitive edge.  I wonder if that partly explains what happened to LSU?

    We saw a great game, the class of college football, yet one team broke apart under pressure while momentum shifted ......
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : PatsEng, I'm with you on not taking a G in round 1. We should be fairly set at that position for at least next year. We have to address defense early and often. Mercilus would be a no brainer over a G when we pick first. I have seen some compare him to JPP of the Giants. If he is in that ilk, no brainer for me if we are running 4-3. I want to see how McCourty plays Safety this weekend vs. the Broncos. Although not a prolific passing team (up until last week ha ha), he should get a decent test given Timmy is a dual threat. I have to imagine given an offseason to really learn the position, that he would excel there. I believe the duo of Chung/McCourty is a solid one, and McCourty will be the ballhawking safety we need. Barron skill set in my mind seems a split between the 2 of Chung and McCourty. I still think we need to take one, but if we do go Chung/McCourty, I'll look later in the draft for a safety. So, what do you do at CB? Assuming you move McCourty to S full time. Burn a 2nd on a CB and/or look to FA? Personally, at CB I look to bring in a mid-priced FA to compete at starting, and use a 4th-6th on a CB in the draft unless one slips and there is too much value not to pick him. My ideal draft scenario is for BB to address the front 7 on Defense and in a big way. I want to add speed to the front 7, and guys that can flat out tackle and get to the QB. Anyone, thoughts on the below player comparisons 1. Mercilus vs. Curry (which do you like for the Pats playing 4-3 RDE?) 2. Thompson vs. Still vs. Wolfe vs. Cox (Interior 4-3 DT, 4-3 DE?)
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    re:
    "My ideal draft scenario is for BB to address the front 7 on Defense and in a big way. I want to add speed to the front 7, and guys that can flat out tackle and get to the QB. "

    liek it.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]My analysis of the Ala and LSU game. Unfortunately, we didn't learn much from last night other then the Ala front 7 were just plain dominant. Outside of the trenches Jefferson didn't have enough time to let routes develop so it's very hard to make any judgement calls on the Ala secondary or LSU WR's. As such here's what I saw out of the players MB and I mentioned. LSU - Rueben Randle WR -Didn't see much from Randle mainly due to his QB (Jefferson) having rushers on his back after 2 steps. 2-3s is not a lot of time to develop any receiving routes and Randle was hurt tremendously by that lack of time. He did managed to get involved in a couple of screen plays though. When asked to block he seemed disinterested and was a relatively poor blocker which does not bode well for the Pats system. Though on one screen he received Kirkpatrick nailed Randle right as the ball hit his hands and not only held onto it but actually stayed upright. That's a big positive that he can take a hit, stay on his feet, and hold onto the ball. Overall last night didn't help or hurt his stock T-Bob Hebert C - I saw appearances of Hebert as LSU tried almost everything to counter what Ala was throwing at them. unfortunately for Hebert he looked lost at times and was moved at will backwards or laterally. This one game has take him out as a possible Pats pick for me. His stock was hurt by this game Alex Hurst OT/G - Hurst had a rough night but that is bound to happen when you have arguable the most dominant DE/OLB prospect (Upshaw) lined up across from you. What hurt Hurst the most was Upshaw's quick burst and athleticism. To many times Hurst lost his assignment and was caught looking inside rather then out whiffing on key blocks against Upshaw. For me it solidified his position at the next level to be a RG with a flex T option against larger slower D's. If you are looking at him as a G his stock remained neutral, if you are looking at him as a T it was most definitely hurt last night Brandon Taylor S - Taylor had a rather James Sanders'ist (circa 07') type of performance. There were times where his coverage was excellent and he had his guy blanketed with good angles to the ball and then there were times where he was beat badly, he broke on bad angles, or his zone left huge gaps. All in all I think it showed 2 things: 1) the reason why he'll be a late 2nd early 3rd day pick and 2) how weak this S draft class is. His stock should remain neutral Alabama - Marquis Maze WR - Was injured early with a hammy. I didn't really consider Maze an option for the Pats to begin with considering he translates to a slot guy in the Pro's but now with the hammy I'd be cautious even more. If it's one thing about hammies it's they either tighten up and can be worked out or the is a bigger issue that will re-appear over their career. Considering it was his final game for a national title and he couldn't get back in I'm wondering if it's the latter. Sad because this kid had great potential as a slot guy. Overall though if he can come back and workout strong his stock should remain nuetral William Vlachos C - Vlachos was just over powered by the speed and strength of the LSU DL. He kept them in check at times but was taken out of his spot and driven backwards to often. It almost looked like he was back on his heels the entire game trying to adjust to what the LSU DL was throwing at him. I've removed him as a potential draft option for the Pats. His stock was hurt by last nights game Dont'a Hightower ILB - Here's the one I'm going to get killed over. Overall Hightower had an excellent game and if you view him as an interior LB then his stock rose last night. He looked quick, let the gaps develop before shooting through them, made great lane decisions, and was very strong at POA. What's the issue I have? well what I wanted to see I didn't see. He looked slow moving laterally losing steps when the LSU ball carriers bounced outside. It was fine since they had Lester and Barron on each edge making up the difference but it raised real concerns for me if he could cover the distance from hash to sideline quick enough against the quicker RB's and TE's in the Pro's (if you place him as a 34 OLB). I also didn't see much in the way of a C or E gap rush. They kept him almost exclusively inside never bouncing out of the B gap. As a potential 34 OLB imo his stock dropped a little but as a ILB/MLB his stock raised. The final determination if he could move outside might come at the combine with his 10yard split and cone numbers though. Mark Barron S - Some good and some bad things shown by Barron last night. Overall I think he had a good game but with the front 7 being so dominant it's hard to look bad if you only need to cover for 2-3s. Some good things last night was that he set himself up well in the zone and put himself into great position to make plays. He was patient and stayed in his assignment until it was clear the play was broken. Once broken he made good decision replacing himself at the right position. He secured the edge well and kept any plays in front of him. The bad, his 1 solo tackle. I know it's not much to go by but he looked like he was more interested to cement his rep as a hard hitter rather then wrap up. Normally I wouldn't think of it but I really wanted to see him wrap up more then try to hit hard. His stock overall remained neutral Robert Lester S - Like Barron, Lester couldn't show much due to the domination of the front 7. He played well on the edge against the run and knowing when to leave the zone during broken plays with the QB scrambling. However, he was pulled to often inside leaving big windows for the LSU WR's down the sideline. If Jefferson had just an extra second or two that window would have been exploited. I might be because he had Kirkpatrick on his side but that brings another question mark. Without that #1 CB and Barron next to him would his impatience leaving the zone to move inside hurt the team or is that because he has Kirkpatrick and Barron he's willing to take more risks. Overall he didn't have a great game in coverage and this might cause him to decide to stay in school truthfully hurting an already weak S draft class. DeQuan Menzie CB - I honestly don't remember seeing him all game. I know he was dealing with some nagging injures to his groin and hammy so it might have limited his played or took him out completely but it was either a case of him not playing at all or having a good game since I don't remember anything about him. Anyone else see or remember anything from Menzie? Josh Chapman DT/NT- Chapman performed just as I thought he would, solidly. He did his job stayed in his lane and clogged the hole. Stat wise he didn't have a great game but footage wise he was just a solid player, nothing spectacular. His stock remains neutral and I just don't see him being more then a backup in the Pro's Clearly the star of the game and the person who helped his stock out the most was kicker Shelley... just kidding it was obviously Upshaw. He might have just made himself a ton of cash last night moving into a possible top 10 slot.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    thanks eng, missed most of the game,
      i did see hightower as a mlb/ilb but yes i was looking for versatility too.
    i always wanted upshaw, but he has been on the rise all year. interesting what you saw in lester. been pushing for fs and if cb needed to do so in fa.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : As of now, the highest our picks can be are 27/28, the lowest, of course, 31/32.  I think Barron and Konz will both be gone before 27, probably 21 as anytime you have the top player at a position on the board and a team with need.  A reach of 10 spots or so to fill that need isn't unusual.  I could see Barron going as high as the Jets at 16 and Konz to the Bengals at 21. As far as the LB discussion goes, can we agree there are no top 10 LBs this year?  Then you have Ingram, Perry, Kuechly, Upshaw, Brown, Hightower, Montgomery and Mercilus all projected in the 10-32 range.  Team need and math would seem to suggest a couple of these guys should be available late 20s. Looking at our roster, I like the idea of adding a big run stuffer who can run in the middle like Hightower.  Play him alongside Spikes and move Mayo outside as we've seen some this year.  You can then have Fletcher or Ninko on the other side.  If we could somehow get Upshaw, then I think we are set with Mayo/Spikes/Fletcher in the middle with Upshaw and Ninko on the edge.  I've actually seen a mock recently that had Upshaw lasting until 32 going to GB. In any event, we should be able to get a stud LB with one of those top picks.  Assuming we do and Barron and Konz are gone, would we go WR with the other? Have you guys talked about Alshon Jeffery lately?  I know he had a bit of an off year compared to last and got into a little trouble.  I know we got burned before taking a Steve Spurrier WR (Chad Jackson) and I know that Jeffery can be a little sloppy in his routes but there is no denying his physical skill set and having Brady throwing to him, the sky's the limit for this kid.  I bring him up only because I saw one mock having us taking him at 31. Can you imagine putting Jeffery on the outside with Welker and Gronk working the middle of the field and Hernandez coming out of the backfield and working the flat?  ...and don't forget Shane Vereen or Ridley (both excellent receivers), what they could bring to the passing game too.   
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    definitely been my thinking from the start, one of the top lbs, outside receiver in first 2 rounds.

    hightower and upshaw really like. wish we could get both.
    i think we need inside adn out, speed adn edge and wish we could do both.
    we leave too many positions unfilled every year, resulting our need at too many positions to fill.

    def want a top tier lb
    and top 2 round outside revceiver
    de/dt as well.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Call me crazy but I feel the Patriots will be more aggressive this draft targeting defensive players.  I see them moving up to get Courtney Upshaw and maybe Dont'a Hightower.  They'll probably have to trade one of their 2nd round picks to get Upshaw but he fits this defense perfectly.  Good pass rusher and stout against the run.  He'll need to work on pass coverage but he's been working in a complex defense at Alabama.  I see Hightower playing all linebacker positions in a 4-3 or 3-4.  He has some decent pass rush skills and can cover more ground than Spikes.  Both guys can play with their hands in the dirt in a 4-3.  As far as safety I see McCourty making a big impact as a cover safety paired with Chung.  In the second round I see them picking up a Leonard Johnson from Iowa State.  A physical corner who played well against Blackmon and McNutt.  I still think you draft a safety later on like a Winston Guy from Kentucky or Matt Daniels from Duke. 
    Posted by PatsNut5480[/QUOTE]

    blackmon was really held in check in that iowa state game. was impressed.

    no one gonna chime in on the burfict question?
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : Prior to this playoff game against Alabama, LSU appeared to have a very dominant front 7.  That LSU was completely out-classed in the playoff game could be due to better preparation/ better coaching/ better communication  on the Alabama front 7. When each member of the front 7 is doing their job it should not be surprising that we have difficulty seeing dominance by any one player.  Several posters have indirectly supported this point by grading  Alabama defensive players as "neutral" as regards their performance relative to draft status. It seems odd that Alabama players can demonstrate complete defensive dominance yet be individually graded as "neutral"??? Are we forgetting that football is a TEAM concept? Which addresses yet another reminder, one game should not determine a player's worth...good or bad... until the body of his work is evaluated.  While a particularly strong or good performance does lend validity to an otherwise great body of work, I assume that the grade "neutral" was meant to say that a given player performed as expected and in the case of LSU, perhaps a given player (and TEAM) had one of their poorest performances. One last thought, when a TEAM becomes completely demoralized (especially a quarterback under relentless pressure) such that they cannot remain competitive, the offense looks sluggish and the defense stays too long on the field until exhaustion cripples their competitive edge.  I wonder if that partly explains what happened to LSU? We saw a great game, the class of college football, yet one team broke apart under pressure while momentum shifted ......
    Posted by moskk[/QUOTE]

    Neutral can mean a number of things. Basically you can't judge an individual based on a single game but since this is the last game before they become a Pro it's the most reflective of potential ability at the Pro level. Add on top of that that both teams are loaded with Pro players and play Pro style O's and D's that this is the best game to judge the players on, and one that will most reflect their draft grade.

    If a player performs as expected compared to previously known information such as LSU's safety B. Taylor then his stock remains neutral

    When a front 7 becomes so dominant other players abilities are hidden such as Barron's their stock remains neutral because they couldn't show their ability yet they weren't hurt by being beat themselves

    It basically boils down to either if one aspect of the game is so dominant it drowns out the performance of other positions for both teams or a player performs as they are suppose to then they remain where they were before the game



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]Hey Faucet - I really don't like Jeffery because of the reasons you mentioned, lol. Brady doesn't enjoy teaching WR's how to run routes in the least. He tends to give up and just refuses to throw to them if they aren't understanding the system and are where they are suppose to be. Jeffery has been called a hard working WR that is very lazy in his route running during the game. He uses his size and athleticism to make up for poor routes and lazy cuts but that won't cut it at the next level. Add that to his personality and it's a bad combination that he and Brady will butt heads at some point His diva issues could translate to off-field concerns very easily, look at Bryant for example. There were rumors Dallas might cut him a couple of points over this last year. We're talkin about Bryant's talent level being a 1st round pick and almost getting cut after 1 year? Diva WR's are hard to control and with this team I don't see diva WR's meshing with the current set of players very well (might be a reason he falls to us or even completely out of the 1st) His other red flags are conditioning and weight. This scares me as his speed is almost a linear correlation to his weight. If he can get down to the low 220's he has wheels to burn but if he travels back up to 240's again he's very sluggish and can't generate separation at all. That comes from being physically more gifted then the opponents around him and just being lazy about it. It's a very hard habit to break (Haynesworth, White) and could easily knock him off the team quickly, as BB is all about conditioning.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    All good points.  We have a diva WR now (albeit a somewhat recently forced subdued one) and he hasn't done squat with Brady throwing him the ball.  I guess I should jump on the Kendall Wright bandwagon with some of you guys.  He isn't a physical freak, but he can burn.  There is no way Blackmon or Floyd will be around. 

    Have you guys been talking about Jarius Wright from Arkansas?  Did anyone see him in the Texas A&M game?  He went insane in that game, something like 280 yards.  He is smallish but could probably be had in the 3-4th round.  Sorry if you've discussed all this already.   



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : blackmon was really held in check in that iowa state game. was impressed. no one gonna chime in on the burfict question?
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]


    I'm not sure what to think of Burfict.  He's a heck of an athlete at linebacker but the guy might be a little nuts in a bad way.  I think he's suited for either middle or outside in a 4-3.  I think he could be a great blitzer because he's fast and explosive.  Just not sure if he is all there mentally.  If anyone can calm him down it would be Belichick.  I would feel more comfortable drafting him with a veteran defense. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V1 ADDED : definitely been my thinking from the start, one of the top lbs, outside receiver in first 2 rounds. hightower and upshaw really like. wish we could get both. i think we need inside adn out, speed adn edge and wish we could do both. we leave too many positions unfilled every year, resulting our need at too many positions to fill. def want a top tier lb and top 2 round outside revceiver de/dt as well.
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    Me too.  I think if you have 4 solid LBs it covers up deficiencies elsewhere.  This could be the year where BB just goes for it and drafts two LBs early and covers that need, sort of like what he did getting Gronk and Hernandez in the same draft.  Granted, Hernandez went in the 4th but he was a 1-2 round talent.  If we could somehow get Upshaw and Hightower late first, we could let Guyton and Ninko walk and really upgrade there.  Mayo would be the custy old veteran at the ripe age of 26 heading into 2012.

     

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