Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 3:34 PM EST
In response to seattlepat70's comment:
If Cooper is an opgrade to the starting lline up then the question does not even need to be asked.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 3:46 PM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to seattlepat70's comment:
If Cooper is an opgrade to the starting lline up then the question does not even need to be asked.
I don't have any recordings of UNC, so I really can't comment knowledgeably. That said, at 310 lbs, I do have questions about Cooper's ability to run block against the bigger DLines in he NFL.
I am not saying weight is an absolute indicator of strength (Canon is 350+ but pushes more like a 320 to me), but normally it is a good indicator.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 3:53 PM EST
In response to seattlepat70's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to seattlepat70's comment:
If Cooper is an opgrade to the starting lline up then the question does not even need to be asked.
I don't have any recordings of UNC, so I really can't comment knowledgeably. That said, at 310 lbs, I do have questions about Cooper's ability to run block against the bigger DLines in he NFL.
I am not saying weight is an absolute indicator of strength (Canon is 350+ but pushes more like a 320 to me), but normally it is a good indicator.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 5:06 PM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
ok mb, this is how i have it:
the huuuuge glaring need for this team 1a and 1a is at off line and pass rush.
so we need a strategy that starts there. sure an elite corner would be great to have but with a weak pass rush as ours, it wont matter much.
without some o line help that can win at run blocking and pass blocking this offense will never be at its peak and therefore make successful sb bids (wins) very unlikely.
good o line talent can be chosen later in the draft, but pass rushers will be gone by late rd 1.
so we need to either get babin in the offseason or another proven pass rusher or move up with the help of 2014 picks and get a player like jordan or ansah in rd 1.
we use the rd 3 pick on frederick moving up in rd 3 if need be if we think he will be grabbed (again usign 2014 picks - we wont need a ton more youth after this year. we need more experience and a few key players).
with the rd 2 pick id like to get a dt (outside wr who can separate and catch is a need, but our ability to pick one is poor. ditto for a cb or s)
however through fa and the draft we need a safety that can hit and can cover ala j byrd or goldson who are available; a top corner to go along with talb (so we can make dennard [or dowling if he dont break] our 3rd corner); a linebacker with speed who can cover tes/rbs out of backfield, and the above mentioned big wr who can separate on the outside.
there are numerous variations obviously depending on who we target in fa.
the only scenario i can see where id be ok with taking a rhodes (cb) for instance in rd 1 is if we have the pass rusher already in fa. given my druthers id rather have a modest cb in fa who is proven and get the elite dt in rd 1 in this case (having our pass rusher in fa).
so barring fa pickup,
rd 1 de jordan/ansah
rd 2 dt williams (will he fall here? some mocks say yes, some say no)
rd 3 c/g frederick
if we dont trade up far enough to get a pass rusher in rd 1,
fallback
willimas dt in 1
hunt de in 2
frederickc/g in 3.
if we land de babin
williams dt (or barret jones c/g) in 1
best player availble (safety ie rambo/cb ie poyer/speed lb -not spotted yet/wr whoever falls)or dt willimas in 2 if barrett jones in rd 1
frederick in 3
wr in rd 7 (big separating reciver with hands possibly smalll school, div 3 etc, maybe no route running exp)
With that said, I still believe DT/DE/OL/DB will be targeted in Rd 1. If I'm being honest, UNC OG Jon Cooper could be the best player available when NE selects based on pure talent/ability... put the tape in, this kid is gonna be an All-Pro.
Of the scenarios metioned in your post I think the Rd 1 Williams/Rd 2 Hunt/Rd 2 Frederick has the best chance of happening, based on player availibility.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 5:10 PM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to speedster81's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
ok mb, this is how i have it:
the huuuuge glaring need for this team 1a and 1a is at off line and pass rush.
so we need a strategy that starts there. sure an elite corner would be great to have but with a weak pass rush as ours, it wont matter much.
without some o line help that can win at run blocking and pass blocking this offense will never be at its peak and therefore make successful sb bids (wins) very unlikely.
good o line talent can be chosen later in the draft, but pass rushers will be gone by late rd 1.
so we need to either get babin in the offseason or another proven pass rusher or move up with the help of 2014 picks and get a player like jordan or ansah in rd 1.
we use the rd 3 pick on frederick moving up in rd 3 if need be if we think he will be grabbed (again usign 2014 picks - we wont need a ton more youth after this year. we need more experience and a few key players).
with the rd 2 pick id like to get a dt (outside wr who can separate and catch is a need, but our ability to pick one is poor. ditto for a cb or s)
however through fa and the draft we need a safety that can hit and can cover ala j byrd or goldson who are available; a top corner to go along with talb (so we can make dennard [or dowling if he dont break] our 3rd corner); a linebacker with speed who can cover tes/rbs out of backfield, and the above mentioned big wr who can separate on the outside.
there are numerous variations obviously depending on who we target in fa.
the only scenario i can see where id be ok with taking a rhodes (cb) for instance in rd 1 is if we have the pass rusher already in fa. given my druthers id rather have a modest cb in fa who is proven and get the elite dt in rd 1 in this case (having our pass rusher in fa).
so barring fa pickup,
rd 1 de jordan/ansah
rd 2 dt williams (will he fall here? some mocks say yes, some say no)
rd 3 c/g frederick
if we dont trade up far enough to get a pass rusher in rd 1,
fallback
willimas dt in 1
hunt de in 2
frederickc/g in 3.
if we land de babin
williams dt (or barret jones c/g) in 1
best player availble (safety ie rambo/cb ie poyer/speed lb -not spotted yet/wr whoever falls)or dt willimas in 2 if barrett jones in rd 1
frederick in 3
wr in rd 7 (big separating reciver with hands possibly smalll school, div 3 etc, maybe no route running exp)
With that said, I still believe DT/DE/OL/DB will be targeted in Rd 1. If I'm being honest, UNC OG Jon Cooper could be the best player available when NE selects based on pure talent/ability... put the tape in, this kid is gonna be an All-Pro.
Of the scenarios metioned in your post I think the Rd 1 Williams/Rd 2 Hunt/Rd 2 Frederick has the best chance of happening, based on player availibility.
" I think they're in a good spot where they don't have to force a pick to address a specific position"
i disagree if its not obvious. i think the pass rsuh has to be better adn teh o line has to be better. brady is a punching bag.
after that safety and cb have to get better.
need a speed guy (wr) outside and a speed linebacker
all in fa and draft.
have to also retain or replace welker, vollmer and talib
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 5:53 PM EST
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to speedster81's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
ok mb, this is how i have it:
the huuuuge glaring need for this team 1a and 1a is at off line and pass rush.
so we need a strategy that starts there. sure an elite corner would be great to have but with a weak pass rush as ours, it wont matter much.
without some o line help that can win at run blocking and pass blocking this offense will never be at its peak and therefore make successful sb bids (wins) very unlikely.
good o line talent can be chosen later in the draft, but pass rushers will be gone by late rd 1.
so we need to either get babin in the offseason or another proven pass rusher or move up with the help of 2014 picks and get a player like jordan or ansah in rd 1.
we use the rd 3 pick on frederick moving up in rd 3 if need be if we think he will be grabbed (again usign 2014 picks - we wont need a ton more youth after this year. we need more experience and a few key players).
with the rd 2 pick id like to get a dt (outside wr who can separate and catch is a need, but our ability to pick one is poor. ditto for a cb or s)
however through fa and the draft we need a safety that can hit and can cover ala j byrd or goldson who are available; a top corner to go along with talb (so we can make dennard [or dowling if he dont break] our 3rd corner); a linebacker with speed who can cover tes/rbs out of backfield, and the above mentioned big wr who can separate on the outside.
there are numerous variations obviously depending on who we target in fa.
the only scenario i can see where id be ok with taking a rhodes (cb) for instance in rd 1 is if we have the pass rusher already in fa. given my druthers id rather have a modest cb in fa who is proven and get the elite dt in rd 1 in this case (having our pass rusher in fa).
so barring fa pickup,
rd 1 de jordan/ansah
rd 2 dt williams (will he fall here? some mocks say yes, some say no)
rd 3 c/g frederick
if we dont trade up far enough to get a pass rusher in rd 1,
fallback
willimas dt in 1
hunt de in 2
frederickc/g in 3.
if we land de babin
williams dt (or barret jones c/g) in 1
best player availble (safety ie rambo/cb ie poyer/speed lb -not spotted yet/wr whoever falls)or dt willimas in 2 if barrett jones in rd 1
frederick in 3
wr in rd 7 (big separating reciver with hands possibly smalll school, div 3 etc, maybe no route running exp)
With that said, I still believe DT/DE/OL/DB will be targeted in Rd 1. If I'm being honest, UNC OG Jon Cooper could be the best player available when NE selects based on pure talent/ability... put the tape in, this kid is gonna be an All-Pro.
Of the scenarios metioned in your post I think the Rd 1 Williams/Rd 2 Hunt/Rd 2 Frederick has the best chance of happening, based on player availibility.
" I think they're in a good spot where they don't have to force a pick to address a specific position"
i disagree if its not obvious. i think the pass rsuh has to be better adn teh o line has to be better. brady is a punching bag.
after that safety and cb have to get better.
need a speed guy (wr) outside and a speed linebacker
all in fa and draft.
have to also retain or replace welker, vollmer and talib
Below are the Top 5 in sack rate:
QB Attempts /Sacks /Against Sacks per attempt
Eli Manning, QB- 515 /18 /28.6
Peyton Manning, QB- 554 /21 /26.4
Drew Brees, QB- 627 /24 /26.1
Matthew Stafford, QB- 685 /28 /24.5
Tom Brady, QB- 601 /26 23.1
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 6:02 PM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to speedster81's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
ok mb, this is how i have it:
the huuuuge glaring need for this team 1a and 1a is at off line and pass rush.
so we need a strategy that starts there. sure an elite corner would be great to have but with a weak pass rush as ours, it wont matter much.
without some o line help that can win at run blocking and pass blocking this offense will never be at its peak and therefore make successful sb bids (wins) very unlikely.
good o line talent can be chosen later in the draft, but pass rushers will be gone by late rd 1.
so we need to either get babin in the offseason or another proven pass rusher or move up with the help of 2014 picks and get a player like jordan or ansah in rd 1.
we use the rd 3 pick on frederick moving up in rd 3 if need be if we think he will be grabbed (again usign 2014 picks - we wont need a ton more youth after this year. we need more experience and a few key players).
with the rd 2 pick id like to get a dt (outside wr who can separate and catch is a need, but our ability to pick one is poor. ditto for a cb or s)
however through fa and the draft we need a safety that can hit and can cover ala j byrd or goldson who are available; a top corner to go along with talb (so we can make dennard [or dowling if he dont break] our 3rd corner); a linebacker with speed who can cover tes/rbs out of backfield, and the above mentioned big wr who can separate on the outside.
there are numerous variations obviously depending on who we target in fa.
the only scenario i can see where id be ok with taking a rhodes (cb) for instance in rd 1 is if we have the pass rusher already in fa. given my druthers id rather have a modest cb in fa who is proven and get the elite dt in rd 1 in this case (having our pass rusher in fa).
so barring fa pickup,
rd 1 de jordan/ansah
rd 2 dt williams (will he fall here? some mocks say yes, some say no)
rd 3 c/g frederick
if we dont trade up far enough to get a pass rusher in rd 1,
fallback
willimas dt in 1
hunt de in 2
frederickc/g in 3.
if we land de babin
williams dt (or barret jones c/g) in 1
best player availble (safety ie rambo/cb ie poyer/speed lb -not spotted yet/wr whoever falls)or dt willimas in 2 if barrett jones in rd 1
frederick in 3
wr in rd 7 (big separating reciver with hands possibly smalll school, div 3 etc, maybe no route running exp)
With that said, I still believe DT/DE/OL/DB will be targeted in Rd 1. If I'm being honest, UNC OG Jon Cooper could be the best player available when NE selects based on pure talent/ability... put the tape in, this kid is gonna be an All-Pro.
Of the scenarios metioned in your post I think the Rd 1 Williams/Rd 2 Hunt/Rd 2 Frederick has the best chance of happening, based on player availibility.
" I think they're in a good spot where they don't have to force a pick to address a specific position"
i disagree if its not obvious. i think the pass rsuh has to be better adn teh o line has to be better. brady is a punching bag.
after that safety and cb have to get better.
need a speed guy (wr) outside and a speed linebacker
all in fa and draft.
have to also retain or replace welker, vollmer and talib
QB Attempts Sacks Against Sacks per attempt Eli Manning, QB 515 18 28.6 Peyton Manning, QB 554 21 26.4 Drew Brees, QB 627 24 26.1 Matthew Stafford, QB 685 28 24.5 Tom Brady, QB 601 26 23.1 QB
im going to disagree with you mb. i dont care how many sacks brady gives up. in fact brady like manning will dump the ball to avoid a sack as good or better than anyone.
when brady is getting hit on nearly every pass play (way too much, not every play) he is a punching bag and if you have seen the games of late, you know what i mean i think.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 8:55 PM EST
Hey bred with all due respect I too will disagree with you. The O Line has performed admirably for most of the year. Lately however they have struggled a bit especially since the Houston game. It's no coincidence that those teams play a lot of man and if the receivers do not win early then Brady has to hold the ball longer to wait for someone to come open. Without Gronk and to a lesser extent Edelman, they have been doubling Welker and Hernandez on a huge amount of snaps daring Lloyd, whichever other TE is on the field and Branch to beat the one on one match up. Lloyd more than held his own against Houston and San Fran but against the Jags he and Brady were off. The line will got better as the receivers get better executing againsma press man coverage. Gronks return also bodes well for the pass protection as Defenses can realistically only double 2 guys thus leaving 2 of either Gronk, Hernandez, welker or Lloyd with a one on one. I Like the odds of one of those guys winning their matchup and giving Brady a quick outlet.
Not to be overlooked is also the running backs problems in picking up the blitz. Vereen and woodhead struggled a bit against the Jags for instance.
This post has been removed.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 10:13 PM EST
In response to ricky12684's comment:
Margus Hunt!!!! draft this guy, sign osi and NE will have one hell of a DE rotation with them and chandler. plenty of fire power to get after the QB
This post has been removed.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:01 PM EST
In response to ricky12684's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to ricky12684's comment:
Margus Hunt!!!! draft this guy, sign osi and NE will have one hell of a DE rotation with them and chandler. plenty of fire power to get after the QB
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:15 PM EST
hunts 3 tackles for a loss, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and a safety will definiately show teams what he is capable of.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:24 PM EST
In response to speedster81's comment:
Hey bred with all due respect I too will disagree with you. The O Line has performed admirably for most of the year. Lately however they have struggled a bit especially since the Houston game. It's no coincidence that those teams play a lot of man and if the receivers do not win early then Brady has to hold the ball longer to wait for someone to come open. Without Gronk and to a lesser extent Edelman, they have been doubling Welker and Hernandez on a huge amount of snaps daring Lloyd, whichever other TE is on the field and Branch to beat the one on one match up. Lloyd more than held his own against Houston and San Fran but against the Jags he and Brady were off. The line will got better as the receivers get better executing againsma press man coverage. Gronks return also bodes well for the pass protection as Defenses can realistically only double 2 guys thus leaving 2 of either Gronk, Hernandez, welker or Lloyd with a one on one. I Like the odds of one of those guys winning their matchup and giving Brady a quick outlet.
Not to be overlooked is also the running backs problems in picking up the blitz. Vereen and woodhead struggled a bit against the Jags for instance.
differetn thoughts are what this is about. must say we have 180 degrees different opinion here.
we have not had a good enoug o line to win a super bowl as i see it. even with solder and cannon.
agaisnt top de's brady cannot do eh damage he may otherwise do. brady has been a pinata.
this year, even against jax, one of the worst in the league, brady was battered continually.
anyone of those hits could end his career. better o lines you can see when you watch a game and the qb is getting several seconds and has a clean pocket all game.
the fact that gronk needs to help our line block should be enohter indication.
along with the 0-2 seconds brady ha to throw.
re our pas game, when defenses can focus only on the pass because josh interest in the run game is perfuntory.
better scheming, selection, and use of the run would free up our receviers more.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:26 PM EST
In response to ricky12684's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to ricky12684's comment:
Margus Hunt!!!! draft this guy, sign osi and NE will have one hell of a DE rotation with them and chandler. plenty of fire power to get after the QB
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:26 PM EST
Hunt definitely showed he is definitely a nasty force on pass pressure. I ask the board... how does he look against the run?
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/24/2012 11:28 PM EST
In response to natesubs' comment:
In response to ricky12684's comment:
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to ricky12684's comment:
Margus Hunt!!!! draft this guy, sign osi and NE will have one hell of a DE rotation with them and chandler. plenty of fire power to get after the QB
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 12:49 AM EST
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 12:52 AM EST
In response to seattlepat70's comment:
Hunt definitely showed he is definitely a nasty force on pass pressure. I ask the board... how does he look against the run?
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 12:52 AM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 12:55 AM EST
In response to 42AND46's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 1:02 AM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to 42AND46's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 2:52 AM EST
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to 42AND46's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
just like in the opposite way, if the pats are in a weak division and got breaks on the way to a sb by playing weaker teams (only much worse often ....see florida's schedule). there is a more unfair element in that no nfl team and most college teams dont get to choose every opponent in their schedule. ie "oh, were not in any conference, we're the pats, look at our legacy, we'll take all the money and decide who we will beat to go to the natl chamnpionship. college football at ncaa level is not exactly a "fair" sport in decidign a champion.
now i would not say they were the only or the most deserving team to be in the game.
if youve read my thoughts i think 8 or 9 teams deserve to be in a playoff for the title.
thee most deserving on the field to me is florida by far only tema to face 4 top 12 teams.
the best 2 teams by eye test ive shared earlier
but i think the only fair thing is an eight (or 12 ive seen) team playoff. thats my thought.
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 3:15 AM EST
In response to bredbru's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
In response to 42AND46's comment:
In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
Hunt didn't have huge stats this season (6 sacks, 8.5 TFL), though he did have 2 sacks, 3 FL total vs. Tex A&M and TCU.
just like in the opposite way, if the pats are in a weak division and got breaks on the way to a sb by playing weaker teams (only much worse often ....see florida's schedule). there is a more unfair element in that no nfl team and most college teams dont get to choose every opponent in their schedule. ie "oh, were not in any conference, we're the pats, look at our legacy, we'll take all the money and decide who we will beat to go to the natl chamnpionship. college football at ncaa level is not exactly a "fair" sport in decidign a champion.
now i would not say they were the only or the most deserving team to be in the game.
if youve read my thoughts i think 8 or 9 teams deserve to be in a playoff for the title.
thee most deserving on the field to me is florida by far only tema to face 4 top 12 teams.
the best 2 teams by eye test ive shared earlier
but i think the only fair thing is an eight (or 12 ive seen) team playoff. thats my thought.
and that the SEC can field 30 more players as a conference per team than any other conference (130-100)
and that there always seems to be this idea that ND gets special treatment/favoritism due to network $$$ but no one seems to mention a slight southern anti-catholic bias in the coaches poll that has reared it's ugly head more than once throughout the years
all in all though yes a playoff is the only true measure like basketball and march madness
Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***
posted at 12/25/2012 4:01 AM EST
saw some video of hunt against pitt and a and m, didnt see a top tier pass rusher, and very green in football years but looked strong.
