***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

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    Not gonnay lie, this was stressing me out, ha.  I was already thinking about who they'd target if he were to leave for Philly and outside of their own coordinators (DC Bob Diaco / OC Chuck Martin), Charlie Strong  was the first name that came to mind... he's done an awesome job at Louisville, can recruite the south and coached at ND from 95-98.  I also had Vandy's James Franklin high on my list as he's done very good job there and has plenty of experience recruiting to a school with education restrictions.

    Glad BK is staying, can't wait for 2013!



    did you read my posts here and thread first announcing his interview and my thoughts on it.

    it happend in secret, but when he left without the job, seemed obvious he was working nd for years and money. if he wanted eagles gig, he would have had it.

    i wanted him to leave (as in i respect him and dont want nd to have him :)

    but no, dont want you to have my sec coaches (not the good ones :)

    strong especially.

    no lousville is not sec, but strong just left sec. wish florida hired him instead of muschamp. muschamp can recruit, but strong can coach. 

    by the way mb, never got a congrats from ya on the bama win (woulda been comng your way if youd pulled out the win).

    happy manning, rogers elimination saturday!!



    I subscribe to (2) ND sites, so was following the situation very closely... havne't really commented on it as we don't really know what's going on, or how interested each party really is.  It was mentioned on the ND sites that a bigger contract for himself (as most assumed), more money for his assistants, the installation of field turf (I prefer natural grass), the installation of a "Jumbotron" and a reduction of academic restrictions were all points of contention... we'll prob never know.

    You're a proclaimed Gator fan, not a Bama fan. 

    Impressive win for Baltimore, hopefully we'll see them in Foxboro next weekend!  I see Seattle beating ATL tomorrow.

    thanks for nd website stuff.

    jsut wondered if you saw my post bout it. none of nd lovers or haters or even college fans joined in the discussion i started bout it.

    pulling for seattle to win the next 2.

    re baly, es if we win and take care of biz

    ive been a loud sec fan since ive been on this board (and well before that). i am from florida (from R.I.), but root for any of my bretheren [sec and florida teams] when they are having a good year (even against any other sec team) it's a family thing. sec is family.

    by the way, hope there are no hard feelings us rooting on opposite sides in college football. 

    its just sports and fun. even when a friend is on the opposite side.

    again, happy sat 

    and good on you keeping your nd coach



    Nah, no hard feelings at all, that's part of following the sport... I was always a Big Ten fan (particularly Michigan) as a kid, remember watching them every week, still like the conference, but Florida has always been a team of interest to me and I'd consider them my 2nd favorite college team, though a distant 2nd from ND.

    Happy Sat, hopefully we're celebrating tomorrow night.



    damn thats teh first time id heard that. has that been on the down low?

    what drew you to fl and when.

    excellent day.

    looking forward to tomorrow.

    do you agree with what i said about strong vs muschamp?

    too bad meyers health issue came up.

    oh well.

    hurts to see him is coaching for big 10 (for me as an sec fan and when he was  savior who brought 2 championships).  i cant wish him as well in the big 10.



    Like there mascot "Gators", cool atmosphere at "The Swamp", have had a lot of good players, like the uni's etc.

    IMO, both Muschamp and Strong are good coaches and recruiters (both recruite Florida well), though right now Strong is doing more with less... but is strong (no pun intended) at the right position (i.e. QB Teddy Bridgewater).

    thanks mb,
    yup muschamp was chosen caue florida already has great recritment from southeast and nation, but texas and ca are teh other 2 big regions for the best players and muschamp was very good recruiting at texas. florida thought they coulod clean up getting muschamp. he isnt the coach strong is and yes, he hasnt landed a good enough qb.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    Is Gholston on the Pats radar? (visit Gillette) And PatsEng; I think Goldson gets more money than Byrd, but yer right both will want more money than BB is willing to offer for a safety. If Chung leaves SS becomes a draft/FA priority (DE/OLB, DT, SS, WR).

    Welcome back faucetman?

    Does anyone know the extent of Jesse Williams' injury? Again it looks 'Bama will have plenty of players drafted in first three rounds. I'm old so I still think of round 2 as day one.




    Thanks Hannah,

     

    PatsEng makes a good point regarding DEs.  A lot of people on here seem to have pass rusher as our #1 need.  I agree we need more sacks but we should get more out of Chandler Jones next year.  We are actually pretty loaded at DE if you think about it.

    Jones, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, Bequette

    I actually think Bequette could emerge next year.  So to me we still need a play maker at SS and/or perhaps a big physical CB as Bred has been saying.  I don't see BB shelling out big money for a safety as much as I might like to land a Byrd or Goldson.  It just isn't his style.

    Welker isn't going to get a long term contract.  If it was going to happen, it would of happened last year.  He will get tagged again.  You can count on that!!  So if Edelman is back we would seem set at Slot for another year but I can see the need for a big WR unless Hernandez is going to assume that role. 

     



    I generally agree on the outside DE spot I think we are set. I think people vastly underestimate what Nink brings to the table honestly. He's a plus run defender that will get you 10-20 pressure and a half dozen sacks a year. To me that's a very well balanced all around player that provides a lot. Addditionally even if Bequette never develops Francis looks like a plus edge rusher who can move inside and Scott has provided some rush coming off the edge.

    What I'm looking for is someone next to Wilfork. Love has regressed this year and Deadrick shows flashes of ability is very inconsistent. Even with Francis and Cunningham in the middle on passing plays the interior rush just isn't there. Whether through FA or in the 1st I want to find someone who you can toss next to Wilfork for 3 downs. Imo that should be priority #1 as we've seen what effect having the right interior rush can have on the secondary and D as a whole. But if that guy isn't there then I'm looking at a DB. Maybe a S maybe a CB as I think both might be needs. Not FS as I think that's McCourty's perfect spot but a SS that can cover TE's or a 3rd starting caliber CB to have in with Dennard and hopefully resigning Talib.

    Then after that's taken care of looking at OL and WR



    this week, like every week solidifies my thoughts that a pss rusher is the #1 need on this team.  i post i there beacuse you expres the opposite.

    w have no pressure wihtout a blitz. get no press with 4 men. we would have a great de if we can rush 4 and get pressure often.

    my first move (after reatining our guys) is getting a real pass rusher in free agency.

    #2 free agent safety

    #3 speed lb.

    draft

    rhodes, big outside wr, stud o line.

    redo beraadys contract if need cap room

    use 2014 pick if needed to move up to get the player we need.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

    here is my updated mock. let me know what you guys think.  check out another guy who i think BB might like Markus Wheaton. 

     

     

     

    2013 NFL draft

    1st round - €“Trade 1st  to Cincinnati for 2 second round picks 37, 51

     2nd Round – #37- (from trade of 1st) Margus Hunt, DE, SMU (hopefully he is still here, if not Kenny Vaccaro S, texas)

                        -#51 (from trade of 1st) Travis Frederick, OG/OC, Wisconsin

    Our 2nd - Trade down into an extra 3rd and 6th round picks
    3rd Round -
    Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon State
    3rd round (from trade)- Bennie Logan, DT, LSU

    4th round (probable compensatory pick for anderson) - Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    6th round (from trade) - Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    5th round(probable compensatory pick for BJGE/koppen/ohrnberger/carter/sterling moore) – Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU
    7th Round - Ron Powell*, OLB, Florida  or Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-Zach Boren, FB, Ohio State (also plays ILB)

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico



    gotta love you radditinos here nate.

    very creative.

    love the positons and lot of the players you pick up (some seeming optimistic)

    if we nab a fre agent pass rusher and safety, what woudl you do in this draft.

    wihtout the fa, you could go hunt and get rambo. definelty need the sfety so thats nto an option.

    vaccaro is teh guy i like if we go safety in rd 1.

    hunt or vaccaro, logan, frederickj, mathieu (in 4 would be a steal!), wheaton is a speedster a la d thomas, heard of pocic. dont knwo the ret.

    wahts the thinking with the 2 tes you have at the end of that draft?

     

    good stuff

    fun reads

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    What is up with tables?  Can't use them anymore?  Anyway, I was showing that we ranked in the bottom half in the NFL against the pass 6 of the last 12 years but only twice in points allowed.  The two times where we ranked in the bottom half in points allowed were in '02 and '05 where we ranked 17th both years. 

    So, the point is, our high powered offense is to blame for our defense giving up high passing yards more so than scheme or talent.  It might be that it could be tough to fix this until we start scoring less, lol.



    i dont think you can taek schem adn alent out of the equation. when talb and dennnard are healthy and we play man this is a different team. if you add a legit pass rusher to go along wiht what we have so far on the line (not to mention if you got a dt threat to go along with it), you are not going to sustain so many drives. a safty too; you ar building a defense near sf's, add a rhodes and you may equal seattle and sf in overall defense

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

    http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/01/markus-wheaton-scouting-report.html

    Prospect: Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon State
    Height: 6’0″
    Weight: 182
    Grade: 6.8  (Grading Scale)

     

    Scouting Report:

    Athleticism
    + Outstanding straight line and vertical speed, one of the fastest WR in the Pac-12
    + Ran a 10.75 100m for the Beavers track team, translates his track speed to football speed
    + Good burst off the snap, eats up cushion and gets onto the DB quickly
    + Is used on reverses, screens and sweeps at least twice a game, fast enough to outrun the angle on reverses
    + A playmaker with the ball in his hands, consistently makes the big play
    + Has a second gear to separate while ball is in the air
    + Good height and length for a receiver
    + Displays good agility when running route and making catch in coverage
    + Runs hard and decisively with the ball in his hands, can make a move without losing momentum
    - Lacks strength, could manage to add 5-10 pounds to better deal with press/physical CB
    - Frame isn’t built to take contact well
    - Doesn’t appear to be a great leaper

    Catching
    + Tracks the ball really well in the air, locates and can make the over the shoulder catch
    + Reliable hands, appears to be a natural catcher who doesn’t fit the ball in
    + Does a good job of catching the ball while falling away from the defender
    + Runs through the ball, uses his hands to catch the ball and get moving in one motion
    + Adjusts really well while the ball is in the air, very good awareness of position
    + Knows where he is on the field and gets his feet down in bounds while tracking the ball
    - At times he waits for the ball to come to him instead of working back to it
    - Will cradle the ball and let it get into his body, especially when open

    Route Running
    + Runs outstanding deep routes, with the ability to separate in the final steps while ball is in the air
    + Creates separation in and out of his breaks, due to short area burst
    + Great burst after the initial catch can turn it back on and get to top speed quickly
    + Big weapon on bubble screens and quick passes, can create yards after the catch
    + Has the ability to be a threat at all levels of the passing game
    + Can out run man coverage on crossing routes
    + Recognizes zone coverage and will tempo his routes to find the soft spot
    - Too much wasted movement at the top of his routes
    - Routes lack precision as he relies mainly on his speed to get open at this level
    - Will fade and round some of this routes, giving the DB position on him
    - Can be taken out of his route by a stronger defender

    Intangibles
    + Development is on the right track, got better and more polished each season and really broke out as Senior
    + Was able to maintain a high level of production, while the Beavers changed QB throughout the year
    + Doesn’t give up on plays, will try to get out in front of ball carrier and block
    + Voted as a team captain, by all accounts one of the hardest workers on the team

    Blocking
    + Extremely willing to blocker, looks for a defender and will give good effort to hold his block
    + Will get out in front of teammate and try to block in open field
    + Not afraid to engage bigger defender and will throw his body around
    - Really poor blocking technique, fails to sustain his blocks and can be overpowered
    - Blocks with his hands to much, tries to dance with the defender

    Overview:
    While Wheaton isn’t one of the big name WR in the 2013 NFL Draft, he is one of the biggest play-makers. He has outstanding speed and uses it to stretch the field vertically. He has shown a very good ability to track the ball and make adjustments while it’s in the air. The Beavers tried to get the ball into Wheaton’s hands as much as possible, using him on sweeps, reverses and screens. I see a similar type usage in the NFL.

    Wheaton does need to get stronger and clean up his route running, especially at the top of his routes. He has natural speed that is tough to find and the ability to separate from the defender. In terms of draft stock I think it’s likely that Wheaton is a day two pick based on his speed and predictability. He has developed nicely while at Oregon State, exhibiting improvement each year, at the very least he will provide a team with a vertical threat with reliable hands at the next level.



    whoops im jsu tseeing this. i know hes 6 1' runs a 4.3 and broke oregons pass record.

    one reason i like bigger guys (6 2' + and 210+)  is what they say about his strength and fending off bigger dbs (he needs to add lbs and strength) big wrs are usually good at this.

     

    "Lacks strength, could manage to add 5-10 pounds to better deal with press/physical CB

    Frame isn’t built to take contact well

    - Doesn’t appear to be a great leaper"

    "Can be taken out of his route by a stronger defender"

    "Really poor blocking technique, fails to sustain his blocks and can be overpowered

    - Blocks with his hands to much, tries to dance with the defender"

     

    this is the kind of wr (or bigger) that i had in mind in 3rd round if we get o line stud in rd 2, rhodes in rd 1 and free agent safety and pass rusher (and speed lb)

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    i do note, rangs new mock does hav the 4 qbs (4-5 im looking/hoping go) in the top 18 picks (and its not even february.....!

    he has JORDAN MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO 30 (ive seen him at 5 recently) while ansah at 21!

    got me thinking mb,

    how far would you be willing to trade up for to get jordan and what ammo would you use?

    we have got to get a legit pass rusher in fa AND OR teh draft.

    assume you still like jordan over ansah?

    lastly if jordan and ansah are there 25, woudl you trade up for jordan or wait for ansah to fall to you?

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    i see jordan have some more polished pas srush moves at this point, but i have ansah a lot stronger. he looks to me like a jj watt type player wiht more athletic upside (maybe a little less power, but eventually i see him gettgin stronger if he does strength training). he has a marvelous frame built for speed and strength.

    while id take either, at this moment im leaning ansah on more upside, alot more strength. 

    very disruptive as well with his hands in the air on the pass.

    havent seen extensive film on jordan.

    but of what ive seen, thats where i'm at now.

    id be surprised if either made 28, never mind 29-32.

    id trade a 2014 pick to move up for ansah.

    but given our brady window id be happy with a fa sure pass rush producer and a safety

    and rhodes in rd 1.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     


    this week, like every week solidifies my thoughts that a pss rusher is the #1 need on this team.  i post i there beacuse you expres the opposite.

    w have no pressure wihtout a blitz. get no press with 4 men. we would have a great de if we can rush 4 and get pressure often.

    my first move (after reatining our guys) is getting a real pass rusher in free agency.

    #2 free agent safety

    #3 speed lb.

    draft

    rhodes, big outside wr, stud o line.

    redo beraadys contract if need cap room

    use 2014 pick if needed to move up to get the player we need.




    Not sure where you think I didn't say we needed to add a pass rusher because I've been saying all along that we do, however it's where the rush is coming from that makes the difference between our arguments. I think the edge rush will be fine and I like our current edge DE's but I think the interior rush is what's really lacking. They are stacking layers on Wilfork and almost ignoring whatever guy they put next to him. This D is built for pressure up the middle but they can't generate it. If you add a Williams or Jenkins next to Wilfork then the opponents are going to be in for a rough day, because you can't double Wilfork, Williams/Jenkins, and Jones. Not to mention pressure up the middle is usually more effective than pressure from the edge

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    i do note, rangs new mock does hav the 4 qbs (4-5 im looking/hoping go) in the top 18 picks (and its not even february.....!

    he has JORDAN MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO 30 (ive seen him at 5 recently) while ansah at 21!

    got me thinking mb,

    how far would you be willing to trade up for to get jordan and what ammo would you use?

    we have got to get a legit pass rusher in fa AND OR teh draft.

    assume you still like jordan over ansah?

    lastly if jordan and ansah are there 25, woudl you trade up for jordan or wait for ansah to fall to you?



    I have Jordan higher on my board, think that BB may consider trading into the lower to mid 20's at most to acquire either. 

    At the end of the day, I don't see Jordan and Ansah there at 25 nor do I anticipate a ton of moving up in Rd 1 as they really don't have a ton of ammo.

    Ideally, I'd love to see them get the big DT in Rd 1 (Williams/Jenkins or maybe Sylvester Willams) and maybe target a Tank Carradine or Margus Hunt or Alex Okafor, etc. towards the end of Rd 2.  IMO, Carradine could potentially provide the best value in this draft as he's a Rd 1 talent (IMO) that will drop due to a late injury.  Love his size, length & motor, has the athleticism to play in space, has some strength at the point, shows awareness and looks assignment sound... just a very good fit for what NE looks for in its edge players.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    We'll know for sure tomorrow, but there's a chance that another long, athletic SEC edge player could be throwing his hat into the NFL Draft.

    Alabama's RS Soph OLB Adrian Hubbard (6-6, 250) has reportedly "received a favorable grade from the NFL's draft advisory committee."... he also led Alabama in TFL (11) and sacks (7) this season.  I haven't been able to find any recent tape on this kid, but the length, athleticism and pedigree alone would be enough for me to add him to my board, likley in the Rd 1/2 range.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     


    this week, like every week solidifies my thoughts that a pss rusher is the #1 need on this team.  i post i there beacuse you expres the opposite.

    w have no pressure wihtout a blitz. get no press with 4 men. we would have a great de if we can rush 4 and get pressure often.

    my first move (after reatining our guys) is getting a real pass rusher in free agency.

    #2 free agent safety

    #3 speed lb.

    draft

    rhodes, big outside wr, stud o line.

    redo beraadys contract if need cap room

    use 2014 pick if needed to move up to get the player we need.




    Not sure where you think I didn't say we needed to add a pass rusher because I've been saying all along that we do, however it's where the rush is coming from that makes the difference between our arguments. I think the edge rush will be fine and I like our current edge DE's but I think the interior rush is what's really lacking. They are stacking layers on Wilfork and almost ignoring whatever guy they put next to him. This D is built for pressure up the middle but they can't generate it. If you add a Williams or Jenkins next to Wilfork then the opponents are going to be in for a rough day, because you can't double Wilfork, Williams/Jenkins, and Jones. Not to mention pressure up the middle is usually more effective than pressure from the edge



    thanks for clarifying.

    i do like pressure up the middle. i dotn think j williams is a penetrator, pass rusher. jenkins maybe. syl williams moreso. if we could get syl williams in rd 2 that could be helpful or floyd possibly. they both may likely go in top half of rd 2 i think.

    if i did this id have to add an outside wr in fa with safety, along with de. a tall order

    so i could still get top cb in rd 1 and o line in rd 3.

    if traded for another pick that would help.

    maybe w emake a go with what we got at safety if we can get a penetrating dt and  pass rushing de.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    i do note, rangs new mock does hav the 4 qbs (4-5 im looking/hoping go) in the top 18 picks (and its not even february.....!

    he has JORDAN MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO 30 (ive seen him at 5 recently) while ansah at 21!

    got me thinking mb,

    how far would you be willing to trade up for to get jordan and what ammo would you use?

    we have got to get a legit pass rusher in fa AND OR teh draft.

    assume you still like jordan over ansah?

    lastly if jordan and ansah are there 25, woudl you trade up for jordan or wait for ansah to fall to you?



    I have Jordan higher on my board, think that BB may consider trading into the lower to mid 20's at most to acquire either. 

    At the end of the day, I don't see Jordan and Ansah there at 25 nor do I anticipate a ton of moving up in Rd 1 as they really don't have a ton of ammo.

    Ideally, I'd love to see them get the big DT in Rd 1 (Williams/Jenkins or maybe Sylvester Willams) and maybe target a Tank Carradine or Margus Hunt or Alex Okafor, etc. towards the end of Rd 2.  IMO, Carradine could potentially provide the best value in this draft as he's a Rd 1 talent (IMO) that will drop due to a late injury.  Love his size, length & motor, has the athleticism to play in space, has some strength at the point, shows awareness and looks assignment sound... just a very good fit for what NE looks for in its edge players.



    i didnt se fsu play this year. not on tv locally. 

    see him lsited at 6 4 and 6 5.

    how much of his 11 sacks due to being paired with werner?

    in teh end, i ve speculated that ansaha and jordan would rise maybe too high as well.

    agree on ammo, though i persobnally wouldnt rule out 2014 picks as ive stated (how much youth can a team have? and id raher have 3 or 4 studs over 8 new jags.)

    syl williams could be a move.

    carradien might make end of rd 2 with injury. okafor i doubt

    hunt small chance (probably not).

    odds say get the pass rushing de in fa.

    hwat do you think about getting a penetrator over a run stuffer like jesse williams or even jenkins?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    i do note, rangs new mock does hav the 4 qbs (4-5 im looking/hoping go) in the top 18 picks (and its not even february.....!

    he has JORDAN MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO 30 (ive seen him at 5 recently) while ansah at 21!

    got me thinking mb,

    how far would you be willing to trade up for to get jordan and what ammo would you use?

    we have got to get a legit pass rusher in fa AND OR teh draft.

    assume you still like jordan over ansah?

    lastly if jordan and ansah are there 25, woudl you trade up for jordan or wait for ansah to fall to you?



    I have Jordan higher on my board, think that BB may consider trading into the lower to mid 20's at most to acquire either. 

    At the end of the day, I don't see Jordan and Ansah there at 25 nor do I anticipate a ton of moving up in Rd 1 as they really don't have a ton of ammo.

    Ideally, I'd love to see them get the big DT in Rd 1 (Williams/Jenkins or maybe Sylvester Willams) and maybe target a Tank Carradine or Margus Hunt or Alex Okafor, etc. towards the end of Rd 2.  IMO, Carradine could potentially provide the best value in this draft as he's a Rd 1 talent (IMO) that will drop due to a late injury.  Love his size, length & motor, has the athleticism to play in space, has some strength at the point, shows awareness and looks assignment sound... just a very good fit for what NE looks for in its edge players.



    i didnt se fsu play this year. not on tv locally. 

    see him lsited at 6 4 and 6 5.

    how much of his 11 sacks due to being paired with werner?

    in teh end, i ve speculated that ansaha and jordan would rise maybe too high as well.

    agree on ammo, though i persobnally wouldnt rule out 2014 picks as ive stated (how much youth can a team have? and id raher have 3 or 4 studs over 8 new jags.)

    syl williams could be a move.

    carradien might make end of rd 2 with injury. okafor i doubt

    hunt small chance (probably not).

    odds say get the pass rushing de in fa.

    hwat do you think about getting a penetrator over a run stuffer like jesse williams or even jenkins?



    Carradine has the ability to create on his own... certainly playing across from Werner helps, but Werner also benefits from playing across from Carradine. 

    I don't see BB leveraging 2014 unless there is a must have kid or two, personally I don't see a must have player or need at this point.

    BB generally runs a gap control defense, especially with his interior DT's.  With that said, he seems to prefer the big wide body types to man the middle, players that can eat up blocks, control the double/gaps etc. (thus freeing up the edge players to make more plays)... a skill set that both Williams and Jenkins can provide at a high level.  This doesn't mean they can't push the pocket and pressure from the interior, they're just not expected to throw up huge sack totals... for example VW's career high in sacks for a season is 3.5 (he only has 16 in 138 regular season games over 9 seasons). 

    I don't think either player is incapable of penetrating (both have pretty good quicks/movement ability for their size), they're just not the types of players that use quickness to shoot gaps like some smaller, quicker 43 DT's.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    i do note, rangs new mock does hav the 4 qbs (4-5 im looking/hoping go) in the top 18 picks (and its not even february.....!

    he has JORDAN MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO 30 (ive seen him at 5 recently) while ansah at 21!

    got me thinking mb,

    how far would you be willing to trade up for to get jordan and what ammo would you use?

    we have got to get a legit pass rusher in fa AND OR teh draft.

    assume you still like jordan over ansah?

    lastly if jordan and ansah are there 25, woudl you trade up for jordan or wait for ansah to fall to you?



    I have Jordan higher on my board, think that BB may consider trading into the lower to mid 20's at most to acquire either. 

    At the end of the day, I don't see Jordan and Ansah there at 25 nor do I anticipate a ton of moving up in Rd 1 as they really don't have a ton of ammo.

    Ideally, I'd love to see them get the big DT in Rd 1 (Williams/Jenkins or maybe Sylvester Willams) and maybe target a Tank Carradine or Margus Hunt or Alex Okafor, etc. towards the end of Rd 2.  IMO, Carradine could potentially provide the best value in this draft as he's a Rd 1 talent (IMO) that will drop due to a late injury.  Love his size, length & motor, has the athleticism to play in space, has some strength at the point, shows awareness and looks assignment sound... just a very good fit for what NE looks for in its edge players.



    i didnt se fsu play this year. not on tv locally. 

    see him lsited at 6 4 and 6 5.

    how much of his 11 sacks due to being paired with werner?

    in teh end, i ve speculated that ansaha and jordan would rise maybe too high as well.

    agree on ammo, though i persobnally wouldnt rule out 2014 picks as ive stated (how much youth can a team have? and id raher have 3 or 4 studs over 8 new jags.)

    syl williams could be a move.

    carradien might make end of rd 2 with injury. okafor i doubt

    hunt small chance (probably not).

    odds say get the pass rushing de in fa.

    hwat do you think about getting a penetrator over a run stuffer like jesse williams or even jenkins?



    Carradine has the ability to create on his own... certainly playing across from Werner helps, but Werner also benefits from playing across from Carradine. 

    I don't see BB leveraging 2014 unless there is a must have kid or two, personally I don't see a must have player or need at this point.

    BB generally runs a gap control defense, especially with his interior DT's.  With that said, he seems to prefer the big wide body types to man the middle, players that can eat up blocks, control the double/gaps etc. (thus freeing up the edge players to make more plays)... a skill set that both Williams and Jenkins can provide at a high level.  This doesn't mean they can't push the pocket and pressure from the interior, they're just not expected to throw up huge sack totals... for example VW's career high in sacks for a season is 3.5 (he only has 16 in 138 regular season games over 9 seasons). 

    I don't think either player is incapable of penetrating (both have pretty good quicks/movement ability for their size), they're just not the types of players that use quickness to shoot gaps like some smaller, quicker 43 DT's.



    "BB generally runs a gap control defense, especially with his interior DT's. "

    yes i too see this.

    "unless there is a must have kid or two"

    not sure i agree with this.

    id must have several but cant do all with 1 rd 1 pick :)

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Below is my updated Big 32 Board:

    Rd 1

    DT- Jesse Williams

    *S- Matt Elam

    *DE/OLB- Sam Montgomery

    OG- Jonathan Cooper

    DT- John Jenkins

    S- Kenny Vaccaro

    OL- Barrett Jones

     

    Rd 1-2

    *CB- Logan Ryan

    DT- Sylvester Williams

    CB- Jordan Poyer

    *WR- DeAndre Hopkins

    CB- Xavier Rhodes

     

    Rd 2

    DE/OLB- Tank Carradine

    DE/OLB- Alex Okafor

    DE/OLB- Margus Hunt

    WR- Robert Woods

    C/OG- Travis Frederick

     

    Rd 2-3

    OLB/DE- Brandon Jenkins

    CB- Melvin White

    CB- Micah Hyde

    S- Shawn Williams

     

    Rd 3

    WR- Ryan Swope

    WR- Markus Wheaton

    S- Zeke Motta

     

    Rd 4-7

    WR- Conner Vernon

    LB- Kiko Alonso

    DL- Kapron Lewis-Moore

    TE- Travis Kelce

    DT- Cory Grissom

    DL- Quinton Dial

    S- John Boyett

    WR TJ Moe

     

    *Denotes Underclassmen

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Do you think there's any chance the Pats take a TE?  Seeing how the Pats have brought in many FA over the years and also how Gronk and Hernandez have missed playing time over the past 2 years leads me to believe there's a chance they spend a pick in this area.

    Thoughts?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from looneyman. Show looneyman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

    Do you think there's any chance the Pats take a TE?  Seeing how the Pats have brought in many FA over the years and also how Gronk and Hernandez have missed playing time over the past 2 years leads me to believe there's a chance they spend a pick in this area.

    Thoughts?



    They still have Ballard next year. I do like thevTE from ND. Him , Gronk, Aaron and Ballard woud be sick.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

    Do you think there's any chance the Pats take a TE?  Seeing how the Pats have brought in many FA over the years and also how Gronk and Hernandez have missed playing time over the past 2 years leads me to believe there's a chance they spend a pick in this area.

    Thoughts?



    i dont see it.

    next year we carry 4 of 5 (INCLUDING ballard) we have should be enough except for practicve squad maybe

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsNut5480. Show PatsNut5480's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I don't know about you guys but it seems like every mock draft has the Patriots taking WR Tavon Austin from WV.  As a player I really like Austin but I really don't think the Pats draft him seeing that they have guys like Demps coming back and Vareen/Woodhead.  Austin is extremely dynamic and can do a lot of things however I feel like he'll break down quickly in the NFL.  One guy I would go after in 2nd/3rd round is Austin's teammate Stedman Bailey.  Seems like a more traditional WR but can play on the outside and in the slot.  He's been tremendously productive and looks like a good route runner.  I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. 

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsNut5480's comment:

    I don't know about you guys but it seems like every mock draft has the Patriots taking WR Tavon Austin from WV.  As a player I really like Austin but I really don't think the Pats draft him seeing that they have guys like Demps coming back and Vareen/Woodhead.  Austin is extremely dynamic and can do a lot of things however I feel like he'll break down quickly in the NFL.  One guy I would go after in 2nd/3rd round is Austin's teammate Stedman Bailey.  Seems like a more traditional WR but can play on the outside and in the slot.  He's been tremendously productive and looks like a good route runner.  I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. 



    I agree, I just don't see Austin as a good fit for the Pats. He's dynamic with the ball in his hands but in the end I don't think he'd make as big of an impact on the Pats as going D early and taking a WR a little later in the draft. Esp, since I'm convinced they are looking to convert Demps into a WR and he's got wheels like no one else in the league

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Quick question.


    Who, likely to be on the board at 32 and/or 64, could project to beat out any of our current starters by Week 1-8?

    I don't see it.  This draft is for depth and future so I would not be shocked to see BB trade back and out as much as possible.

     

     

     

     

     




    If Jessie Williams or Jenkins is available, I could see them lining up next to Vince in week 1. At #64 I'm going by position instead of player and I would say SS? This is based on if they keep all their current starters




    So Kyle Love is considered the weakest link?  Not sure I agree.  He's pretty stout against the run.  But Williams and Jenkins are bigger and could develop into better pros.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     


    this week, like every week solidifies my thoughts that a pss rusher is the #1 need on this team.  i post i there beacuse you expres the opposite.

    w have no pressure wihtout a blitz. get no press with 4 men. we would have a great de if we can rush 4 and get pressure often.

    my first move (after reatining our guys) is getting a real pass rusher in free agency.

    #2 free agent safety

    #3 speed lb.

    draft

    rhodes, big outside wr, stud o line.

    redo beraadys contract if need cap room

    use 2014 pick if needed to move up to get the player we need.




    Not sure where you think I didn't say we needed to add a pass rusher because I've been saying all along that we do, however it's where the rush is coming from that makes the difference between our arguments. I think the edge rush will be fine and I like our current edge DE's but I think the interior rush is what's really lacking. They are stacking layers on Wilfork and almost ignoring whatever guy they put next to him. This D is built for pressure up the middle but they can't generate it. If you add a Williams or Jenkins next to Wilfork then the opponents are going to be in for a rough day, because you can't double Wilfork, Williams/Jenkins, and Jones. Not to mention pressure up the middle is usually more effective than pressure from the edge




    I like this argument a lot.  Look at JJ Watt and his 20.5 sacks.  Most came from rushing up the middle against a less athletic guard.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    Hey all I was wondering what 5 schools did you watch the most of this year? I wasn't keeping track but my 5 are most likely

    1. Notre Dame

    2.Oregon

    3. Alabama

    4.Geogia

    5.FSU or LSU (not sure who I watched more)



    Watched every ND game and basically whatever 3:30 SEC game was on CBS (I love uncle Verne!)... also watched most primetime night games, when ND was playing at that time.



    Agree Uncle Verne is a good dude! Its difficult to ignore all those SEC matchups, seemed like there was a good one every week. I was really hoping ND would have another 9:30 am in Dublin next year

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Quick question.


    Who, likely to be on the board at 32 and/or 64, could project to beat out any of our current starters by Week 1-8?

    I don't see it.  This draft is for depth and future so I would not be shocked to see BB trade back and out as much as possible.

     

     

     

     

     




    If Jessie Williams or Jenkins is available, I could see them lining up next to Vince in week 1. At #64 I'm going by position instead of player and I would say SS? This is based on if they keep all their current starters




    So Kyle Love is considered the weakest link?  Not sure I agree.  He's pretty stout against the run.  But Williams and Jenkins are bigger and could develop into better pros.



    Originally I thought Ninkovich but he's done a great job this year. I like Love alot and he should be in the rotation but yes I would say him or Gregory ( and maybe I'd even lean towards Gregory as the weaker link at this point) but I think we need more big bodies up front. Someone who can play the run and collapse the pocket would be great and free up Vince as well

     
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