***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The mallet discussion is intriguing, but I can't see the browns giving up a 6th for him. The asking price of mallet and swaps of 1st round picks makes more sense. Cleveland retains a first and gets their QB. I don't think that price is too steep considering a week QB draft and the Browns displeasure witht their current QB stable. 

    Lets. Assume for a second the above happens...what do you do with the 6th overall pick? I'd Star is still around, he is my selection. Imagine what that does for the pats. I'd not, I would trade 6 back to the mid early teens, pick Woerner and grab another 2nd or so. 

     



    i get star or werner at 6.  they both could be gone by 5. no way werner lasts till mid teens.

     

    if they are both gone i trade back 4-5 spots take jordan or ansah and pick up a top 10 2nd rd pick

    i still say its a pats fantasy. but if it happens it will be teh biggest steal of the year. bigger than the talbi deal.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    RE: Size of WR's.

    I'm not opposed to size, but I don't think it's a necessity for WR's as some have made it out to to be.  For all the talk about getting the ball down the field, they've been top 5 in YPA (2) out of the last (3) years and were top 10 this year.  They've also been top 4 in passing yards the last (2) seasons, 11th in 2010. 

    What I think they need is players that fit their offensive scheme... players that excel in the short to intermediate game with the ability to create after the catch... if that's a player with size, great, but I don't see it as a necessity at all. 

     




    True.  But it is also about creating mis-matches at every level.  The presence of Welker and his ability to get YAC and sheer production gives us the passing stats you mention.  But we have become a ball control, short passing team since Moss left.  The addition of the 2 stud TEs has given us mismatches in the short and intermediate levels.  Occassionally we go deep to a Gronk, Lloyd or Welker but this is usually because the defense has been cheating to stop the run and short passing game.  I expect BAL to do this a lot since the strength of their defense is their front 7 which matches up well with what we like to do offensively.

     


    Conversely, BAL on offense stretches the field with Torrey Smith and keeps defenses honest vs. loading the box to stop Ray Rice.  Whether we target a tall or not so tall WR, I think we would benefit from a burner who can take the top off a defense.  We may have this on our roster next year if we try Demps at WR more than as a RB/returner. 

    [/QUOTE

    Baltimore can't really hold NE's jock when it comes to offense though, averaging less YPG in both the run and pass.  I do see the value of speed on the perimeter and that wasn't what I was disputing... I was disagreeing with the notion that a big WR is a necessity.

     

     


    I think we are in agreement.  I'm not saying that an outside threat needs to be tall, just fast with hands and route running skills.  Tall would be an added bonus.

     

    As for BAL, they finished 16th overall in offense, 11th in rushing (NE was 7th), 15th in passing (NE was 4th).  But BAL always seems to put up better passing numbers against us then their average perhaps because of their great OL vs. our poor pass rush and weak secondary.  Also, Flacco is very hot right now which worries me.  Brady has his lowest passer rating against Baltimore for his career which also concerns me.  This is likely going to be a very tough and close game.



    Yessir... BTW, I sill owe you a sixer for that Thomas/Tate bet.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    RE: Size of WR's.

    I'm not opposed to size, but I don't think it's a necessity for WR's as some have made it out to to be.  For all the talk about getting the ball down the field, they've been top 5 in YPA (2) out of the last (3) years and were top 10 this year.  They've also been top 4 in passing yards the last (2) seasons, 11th in 2010. 

    What I think they need is players that fit their offensive scheme... players that excel in the short to intermediate game with the ability to create after the catch... if that's a player with size, great, but I don't see it as a necessity at all. 

     




    True.  But it is also about creating mis-matches at every level.  The presence of Welker and his ability to get YAC and sheer production gives us the passing stats you mention.  But we have become a ball control, short passing team since Moss left.  The addition of the 2 stud TEs has given us mismatches in the short and intermediate levels.  Occassionally we go deep to a Gronk, Lloyd or Welker but this is usually because the defense has been cheating to stop the run and short passing game.  I expect BAL to do this a lot since the strength of their defense is their front 7 which matches up well with what we like to do offensively.

     


    Conversely, BAL on offense stretches the field with Torrey Smith and keeps defenses honest vs. loading the box to stop Ray Rice.  Whether we target a tall or not so tall WR, I think we would benefit from a burner who can take the top off a defense.  We may have this on our roster next year if we try Demps at WR more than as a RB/returner. 

    [/QUOTE

    Baltimore can't really hold NE's jock when it comes to offense though, averaging less YPG in both the run and pass.  I do see the value of speed on the perimeter and that wasn't what I was disputing... I was disagreeing with the notion that a big WR is a necessity.

     

     


    I think we are in agreement.  I'm not saying that an outside threat needs to be tall, just fast with hands and route running skills.  Tall would be an added bonus.

     

    As for BAL, they finished 16th overall in offense, 11th in rushing (NE was 7th), 15th in passing (NE was 4th).  But BAL always seems to put up better passing numbers against us then their average perhaps because of their great OL vs. our poor pass rush and weak secondary.  Also, Flacco is very hot right now which worries me.  Brady has his lowest passer rating against Baltimore for his career which also concerns me.  This is likely going to be a very tough and close game.

     



    Yessir... BTW, I sill owe you a sixer for that Thomas/Tate bet.

     




    I know you do, LOL.  Hey, what's the deal with Devin Taylor?  Mayock is talking him up.  He reminds of Chandler Jones, had 2 strips in the first half of the East/West. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sfpat. Show sfpat's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    Happy Saturday, boys!  Below is my Mock V2:

    Rd 1- DT- Jesse Williams (6-3 320) Alabama- Kid looks like an ideal fit as an interior tackle in BB’s 2-gap scheme.  He’s big, good burst off the snap, moves well laterally can eat the double and is very strong at the POA.  He’d look great next to VW in the middle. Alternatives: S Matt Elam Florida / OG Jon Cooper UNC

    Rd 2- DE/OLB- Tank Carradine (6-5 265) Florida State- Great size, length, athleticism and motor… he can create off the edge and also has excellent potential as a run defender, the prototype of what BB looks for in an edge defender. Alternative: DE/OLB  John Simon Ohio State / OLB Brandon Jenkins Florida State

    Rd 3- WR/PR Ace Sanders- (5-8 175) South Carolina- As quick, sudden, agile of a kid as I’ve seen on tape, this kid has elite movement ability and could be a huge weapon in NE’s offense and in the PR game. Alternative:  WR Ryan Swope Texas A&M / CB Darius Slay Miss State

    Rd 7- DE Quinton Dial (6-6 305) Alabama- Big , long, strong 34 DE with the SEC/Saban pedigree. Alternative:  DL Kapron Lewis-Moore ND / WR TJ Moe Missouri

    Rd 7- S Cooper Taylor (6-4 229) Richmond- Big, physical kid with good instincts, awareness and athleticism that could match up well against today’s bigger, more athletic TE’s.  Alternative: RB Spencer Ware (5-11 225) LSU / OG Jeff Baca UCLA

     


    Like all of the picks except I can't see the Pats taking a third DL in round 7. Not enough roster spaces as they're loaded with back-up DL.  I would expect an OL here. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The mallet discussion is intriguing, but I can't see the browns giving up a 6th for him. The asking price of mallet and swaps of 1st round picks makes more sense. Cleveland retains a first and gets their QB. I don't think that price is too steep considering a week QB draft and the Browns displeasure witht their current QB stable. 

    Lets. Assume for a second the above happens...what do you do with the 6th overall pick? I'd Star is still around, he is my selection. Imagine what that does for the pats. I'd not, I would trade 6 back to the mid early teens, pick Woerner antoughd grab another 2nd or so. 

     tough 



    i get star or werner at 6.  they both could be gone by 5. no way werner lasts till mid teens.

     

    if they are both gone i trade back 4-5 spots take jordan or ansah and pick up a top 10 2nd rd pick

    i still say its a pats fantasy. but if it happens it will be teh biggest steal of the year. bigger than the talbi deal.



    imagine star next to wilfork with chandler and perhaps margus hunt rotating in with nink.  especially with mayo, hightower, and spikes playing LB.  Talk about a tough line to play against. Who would you double cover?  with mccourty at FS and talib, dennard and maybe mathaiu at CB. our only questionable spot woud be SS.   

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Guys, I know the draft is important and fun for us to follow but we can't ignore how important Free Agency is.  I just looked at our current 53 man roster.  Of those players only 26 came to us via the draft vs. 27 via free agency.  So, we should spend half of our efforts looking at the potential free agents that could become Patriots next year. 


    The notable non Patriot drafted players currently on the 53 man roster include the following:

    Starters

    Connolly

    Greggory

    Lloyd

    Love

    Ninkovich

    Talib

    Welker

    Wendell

    Woodhead

     

    Non-Starters:

    Hooman

    Koutouvides

    McDonald

    Rivera

    Scott

    Thomas

    White

     

    That is some serious manpower that came to us via trade or free agency.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys, I know the draft is important and fun for us to follow but we can't ignore how important Free Agency is.  I just looked at our current 53 man roster.  Of those players only 26 came to us via the draft vs. 27 via free agency.  So, we should spend half of our efforts looking at the potential free agents that could become Patriots next year. 


    The notable non Patriot drafted players currently on the 53 man roster include the following:

    Starters

    Connolly

    Greggory

    Lloyd

    Love

    Ninkovich

    Talib

    Welker

    Wendell

    Woodhead

     

    Non-Starters:

    Hooman

    Koutouvides

    McDonald

    Rivera

    Scott

    Thomas

    White

     

    That is some serious manpower that came to us via trade or free agency.



    I agree, though I think we are pretty set for starters... well almost. Breaking it down as sure starters/back:

    O :

    • QB - Brady, Mallett
    • TE's - Gronk, Hern/Ballard/Fells (depending on if they move Hern to WR)
    • I'd resign Houm
    • RB's - Ridley, Vereen, Demps (if they don't move him to WR)
    • I'd resign Woodhead
    • WR - Lloyd: This is an area that you could really target a FA
    • I'd resign Welker and Edelman
    • C - Wendell - Maybe depth but I like what Wendell did this year
    • G - Mankins, Connolly - Again depth is needed maybe a RG but looks pretty good
    • T - Solder, Cannon
    • I'd resign Vollmer but to me that's a strong group

    D:

    • DT - Deadrick, Pryor, Wilfork, Love - I think we need another starter next to Wilfork chance in FA?
    • DE - Francis, Nink, Jones, Bequette 
    • I'd resign Scott then I think this group is pretty strong over all
    • LB - Fletcher, Mayo, Spikes, Hightower - I'd like to add a coverage LB but that's a solid group
    • S - McCourty, Wilson, Gregory, Ebner - I can't see adding a high priced FA and would actually be pretty happy with this group if they don't do anything
    • CB - Dennard, Ras, Williams

    I'd resign Talib but again this is an area that needs depth or a starter if Talib isn't resigned

    All in all you basically have minor depth and only really at WR, CB, and DT the rest are kind of minor pieces. The back end of the 48 man squad on game day. As we've seen WR and CB have been points of weakness in FA so not sure what to expect there. To me the best options are:

    At WR: Bowe, Amendola, or Heartline. I see all fitting well with the Pats but I don't want to see Jennings (because of injury concerns) or Wallace (might as well resign Welker for the same cash)

    At CB: there really isn't much. I like Grimes but honestly Talib is the best option and getting a CB in the draft at some point

    At DT: I'd love to see Stark or Melton on board but not sure BB will pay that much. Getting one in the first might be the best option given the talent in the back of the 1st for DT's

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The mallet discussion is intriguing, but I can't see the browns giving up a 6th for him. The asking price of mallet and swaps of 1st round picks makes more sense. Cleveland retains a first and gets their QB. I don't think that price is too steep considering a week QB draft and the Browns displeasure witht their current QB stable. 

    Lets. Assume for a second the above happens...what do you do with the 6th overall pick? I'd Star is still around, he is my selection. Imagine what that does for the pats. I'd not, I would trade 6 back to the mid early teens, pick Woerner antoughd grab another 2nd or so. 

     tough 



    i get star or werner at 6.  they both could be gone by 5. no way werner lasts till mid teens.

     

    if they are both gone i trade back 4-5 spots take jordan or ansah and pick up a top 10 2nd rd pick

    i still say its a pats fantasy. but if it happens it will be teh biggest steal of the year. bigger than the talbi deal.

     



    imagine star next to wilfork with chandler and perhaps margus hunt rotating in with nink.  especially with mayo, hightower, and spikes playing LB.  Talk about a tough line to play against. Who would you double cover?  with mccourty at FS and talib, dennard and maybe mathaiu at CB. our only questionable spot woud be SS.   

     

     



    nate,

     

    that's funny. while at the gym working out today thats exactly the thought i had. if we had # 6 and took star (my hunch is he could be gone unless like 3 qbs go in first 5), then the next pick of de's who might still be on the board when we pick might likely be hunt. okafor long gone. chance hunt gone too. if so, carradine, taylor still there.

    in a preemptive plan (we get this pick befroe free agency), we take a top safety in fa.

    now if star is gone and werner there, then we could go best dt, wr, cb or other in 2, 

    and interior o line still in rd 3.

    if neither there, we trade back 4-5 picks take jordan or ansah, get a high rd 2 pick (top 10), get an elite wr, dt, cb, safety and interior line in rd 3.

    by the way, my thought is if pats want mathiew, we'd be lucky to get him in rd 2.

    with demps and all the other offensive talent, we may have to cut spec teams. can hardly take other spec teams players. mathieu would have to be here because hes better than what we got.

    i know his talent transcends his size, but he is small.

    we dont need the speed so much any more (not in defecit), although there is redundancy to consider ie if demps were to get hurt, we wouldnt have a kcik returner.

    when we add secondary,i woudl prefer tall cbs and tall and big safeties.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys, I know the draft is important and fun for us to follow but we can't ignore how important Free Agency is.  I just looked at our current 53 man roster.  Of those players only 26 came to us via the draft vs. 27 via free agency.  So, we should spend half of our efforts looking at the potential free agents that could become Patriots next year. 


    The notable non Patriot drafted players currently on the 53 man roster include the following:

    Starters

    Connolly

    Greggory

    Lloyd

    Love

    Ninkovich

    Talib

    Welker

    Wendell

    Woodhead

     

    Non-Starters:

    Hooman

    Koutouvides

    McDonald

    Rivera

    Scott

    Thomas

    White

     

    That is some serious manpower that came to us via trade or free agency.



    hi fuacet, ive been discussing fa acquisitons as part of my whole offseason strategy: draft, non pat fa and pat fa's.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys, I know the draft is important and fun for us to follow but we can't ignore how important Free Agency is.  I just looked at our current 53 man roster.  Of those players only 26 came to us via the draft vs. 27 via free agency.  So, we should spend half of our efforts looking at the potential free agents that could become Patriots next year. 


    The notable non Patriot drafted players currently on the 53 man roster include the following:

    Starters

    Connolly

    Greggory

    Lloyd

    Love

    Ninkovich

    Talib

    Welker

    Wendell

    Woodhead

     

    Non-Starters:

    Hooman

    Koutouvides

    McDonald

    Rivera

    Scott

    Thomas

    White

     

    That is some serious manpower that came to us via trade or free agency.



    Isn't that expected? On average, you only draft around six a year. You can add more people through FA. FA is definitely important, but IMHO, you'd want to build your core via the draft.

    TB, VW, CJ, Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Dennard, Wilson, DMC, Solder, Mankins, Vollmer, Gronk, Hern, Ridley, Vereen, Canon.... 

    I'm sure I missed a few others, but that is an impressive list of a core right there. I'd say carry on whatever it is they are doing. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys, I know the draft is important and fun for us to follow but we can't ignore how important Free Agency is.  I just looked at our current 53 man roster.  Of those players only 26 came to us via the draft vs. 27 via free agency.  So, we should spend half of our efforts looking at the potential free agents that could become Patriots next year. 


    The notable non Patriot drafted players currently on the 53 man roster include the following:

    Starters

    Connolly

    Greggory

    Lloyd

    Love

    Ninkovich

    Talib

    Welker

    Wendell

    Woodhead

     

    Non-Starters:

    Hooman

    Koutouvides

    McDonald

    Rivera

    Scott

    Thomas

    White

     

    That is some serious manpower that came to us via trade or free agency.

     



    I agree, though I think we are pretty set for starters... well almost. Breaking it down as sure starters/back:

     

    O :

    • QB - Brady, Mallett
    • TE's - Gronk, Hern/Ballard/Fells (depending on if they move Hern to WR)
    • I'd resign Houm
    • RB's - Ridley, Vereen, Demps (if they don't move him to WR)
    • I'd resign Woodhead
    • WR - Lloyd: This is an area that you could really target a FA
    • I'd resign Welker and Edelman
    • C - Wendell - Maybe depth but I like what Wendell did this year
    • G - Mankins, Connolly - Again depth is needed maybe a RG but looks pretty good
    • T - Solder, Cannon
    • I'd resign Vollmer but to me that's a strong group

    D:

    • DT - Deadrick, Pryor, Wilfork, Love - I think we need another starter next to Wilfork chance in FA?
    • DE - Francis, Nink, Jones, Bequette 
    • I'd resign Scott then I think this group is pretty strong over all
    • LB - Fletcher, Mayo, Spikes, Hightower - I'd like to add a coverage LB but that's a solid group
    • S - McCourty, Wilson, Gregory, Ebner - I can't see adding a high priced FA and would actually be pretty happy with this group if they don't do anything
    • CB - Dennard, Ras, Williams

    I'd resign Talib but again this is an area that needs depth or a starter if Talib isn't resigned

    All in all you basically have minor depth and only really at WR, CB, and DT the rest are kind of minor pieces. The back end of the 48 man squad on game day. As we've seen WR and CB have been points of weakness in FA so not sure what to expect there. To me the best options are:

    At WR: Bowe, Amendola, or Heartline. I see all fitting well with the Pats but I don't want to see Jennings (because of injury concerns) or Wallace (might as well resign Welker for the same cash)

    At CB: there really isn't much. I like Grimes but honestly Talib is the best option and getting a CB in the draft at some point

    At DT: I'd love to see Stark or Melton on board but not sure BB will pay that much. Getting one in the first might be the best option given the talent in the back of the 1st for DT's

     



    i see the biggest need as getting a pass rusher, in fa or draft. the pressure on qb wth the front 4 is the biggest deficit on the team imo 9esp against better o line/qbs. (we really have have the easiest road to the sb teh last 2 years. i odnt expect that to continue. i also expect the toughest teams to improve. and that doesnt even consider winning the sb. improvements must be made and it starts with being able to pass rush wiht 4.

     

    other needs i see are cb, safety, wr, interior o line (line nees to be beefier. if brady has more than the 2-3 secs he often gets, he will be lethal. ditto for teh rbs), dt. in all of these positions i am referring to starters needed to replace who is on the field. the one non-starter that the club needs is a lb who is fast enough to cover fast lbs and rbs.

    my strategy is to get as much as we can in fa, to allow us to be free to grab what we can only get in the draft.

    something liek this cleveland deal, esp if beore or very early in fa woudl help designing a very effective fa/draft strategy.

    at the moment. non- pat free agent targets for me are pass rusher/dl and free safety. 

    several pass rushing dl available are michael johnson, osi, freeney, babin, avril, melton, jason jones, randy starks, michael bennett.

    pass rushing olb: daryl smith, paul kruger, shaun philips, anthony spencer and connor barwin

    if we're in range for ansah or jordan, i take them even if weve already taken a pass rusher in fa.

    re safeties ive talked about byrd and goldson; also avail is william moore

    if we are able to fill these 2 positions in free agency (speedy linebacker in fa or late rd pick a lower priority need)

    (and ansah is off the board) as i have said, i like xavier rhodes 6 2' 215 in rd 1.

    remaining big, burner wr in 2

    and interior o line in 3.

     

    if we sign no fa's ohter than our own,

    vaccaro or okafor/floyd/syl willimas or big speedy  wr in rd 1 unless ansah/jordan availble, 

    rd 2 safety or hunt/taylor/carradine etc or big wr .

    o line 3

    retain our fa's execpt chung. arrington maybe and tehn only at a 1 year min type contract

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     



    i think as much as 4 of the top 4 teams could need and go for a qb, which still means that if that best case scenario were to follow, detroit may pick from milliner, jarvis jones werner and star.

    its a long shot, but star or werner might be available in this fantasy where we to get pick #6.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Possibly, or, if this fantasy played out, there is always Hankins and Richardson. I like them both and both can be had with a slight trade down to accumulate picks. Still looking at the interitor of the DL and finding a presence next to vw that can also allow Vince to rest, move around or even play end himself..Hankins has big potential inside or out if we ran a 3 man line. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     



    Hey a person can dream :p

    Besides if it happened I wouldn't blaim BB for forgetting about the rest of the draft and just sit in the corner like Gollum strocking a picture of Star saying "my precise, we'z has big plans for you, my precise"

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Here is another potential pass rusher and S. The Safety is MB's Cooper.  Looks like MB found a good one.

    5. David Bass, DE, Missouri Western State (6036, 263 and 4.74): Similar to Catapano, Bass was a dominant small school pass rusher who needed to prove himself against the big boys this week. Bass jumped out and grabbed my attention during the first practice with his quick burst off the ball and his ability to dip shoulder and turn the corner. More impressive was his excellent hand use which helped him to keep the pass blocker’s hands off him and beat OT inside and outside. The one area Bass will definitely need to improve is against the run as he tends to get upright and loses leverage against run blockers, which allows them to tie him up and ride him out of the play. While Bass’ struggles against the run and lack of bulk/strength are an issue, his natural pass rush skill and athleticism will likely lead to him being a fourth or fifth round pick as good pass rushers are difficult to find.

    6. Cooper Taylor, SAF, Richmond (6042, 229 and 4.59): NFL teams are always leery of 6’4+ safeties as they usually struggle to change directions quickly and can be liabilities in coverage, which has NFL teams wondering if Taylor would be better making the move to linebacker. However, after a good all-around week of practice where he displayed better hip flexibility, agility and foot quickness to flip hips and change directions, teams now feel he has what it takes to stay at safety. Quick reading and reacting to plays in front of him, Taylor showed the quickness to close on passes in front of him and the range to help with outside coverage. In addition to his good play against the pass, Cooper was active and constantly around the ball on run plays. Taylor’s performance this week has teams convinced he can definitely be a backup safety and elite special teams player with the potential to become a quality starter, which is why he will likely be drafted in the fourth or fifth round.
     

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Reviews-The-East-West-Shrine-Game-Practices.html

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     

     



    Hey a person can dream :p

     

    Besides if it happened I wouldn't blaim BB for forgetting about the rest of the draft and just sit in the corner like Gollum strocking a picture of Star saying "my precise, we'z has big plans for you, my precise"



    Nice...

    do you think there is any meat to this mallet story?

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to sfpat's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Happy Saturday, boys!  Below is my Mock V2:

    Rd 1- DT- Jesse Williams (6-3 320) Alabama- Kid looks like an ideal fit as an interior tackle in BB’s 2-gap scheme.  He’s big, good burst off the snap, moves well laterally can eat the double and is very strong at the POA.  He’d look great next to VW in the middle. Alternatives: S Matt Elam Florida / OG Jon Cooper UNC

    Rd 2- DE/OLB- Tank Carradine (6-5 265) Florida State- Great size, length, athleticism and motor… he can create off the edge and also has excellent potential as a run defender, the prototype of what BB looks for in an edge defender. Alternative: DE/OLB  John Simon Ohio State / OLB Brandon Jenkins Florida State

    Rd 3- WR/PR Ace Sanders- (5-8 175) South Carolina- As quick, sudden, agile of a kid as I’ve seen on tape, this kid has elite movement ability and could be a huge weapon in NE’s offense and in the PR game. Alternative:  WR Ryan Swope Texas A&M / CB Darius Slay Miss State

    Rd 7- DE Quinton Dial (6-6 305) Alabama- Big , long, strong 34 DE with the SEC/Saban pedigree. Alternative:  DL Kapron Lewis-Moore ND / WR TJ Moe Missouri

    Rd 7- S Cooper Taylor (6-4 229) Richmond- Big, physical kid with good instincts, awareness and athleticism that could match up well against today’s bigger, more athletic TE’s.  Alternative: RB Spencer Ware (5-11 225) LSU / OG Jeff Baca UCLA

     

     


    Like all of the picks except I can't see the Pats taking a third DL in round 7. Not enough roster spaces as they're loaded with back-up DL.  I would expect an OL here. 

     



    Wouldn't disagree that a non-DL could be the pick... I too am thinking OL in this range.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    Here is another potential pass rusher and S. The Safety is MB's Cooper.  Looks like MB found a good one.

    5. David Bass, DE, Missouri Western State (6036, 263 and 4.74): Similar to Catapano, Bass was a dominant small school pass rusher who needed to prove himself against the big boys this week. Bass jumped out and grabbed my attention during the first practice with his quick burst off the ball and his ability to dip shoulder and turn the corner. More impressive was his excellent hand use which helped him to keep the pass blocker’s hands off him and beat OT inside and outside. The one area Bass will definitely need to improve is against the run as he tends to get upright and loses leverage against run blockers, which allows them to tie him up and ride him out of the play. While Bass’ struggles against the run and lack of bulk/strength are an issue, his natural pass rush skill and athleticism will likely lead to him being a fourth or fifth round pick as good pass rushers are difficult to find.

    6. Cooper Taylor, SAF, Richmond (6042, 229 and 4.59): NFL teams are always leery of 6’4+ safeties as they usually struggle to change directions quickly and can be liabilities in coverage, which has NFL teams wondering if Taylor would be better making the move to linebacker. However, after a good all-around week of practice where he displayed better hip flexibility, agility and foot quickness to flip hips and change directions, teams now feel he has what it takes to stay at safety. Quick reading and reacting to plays in front of him, Taylor showed the quickness to close on passes in front of him and the range to help with outside coverage. In addition to his good play against the pass, Cooper was active and constantly around the ball on run plays. Taylor’s performance this week has teams convinced he can definitely be a backup safety and elite special teams player with the potential to become a quality starter, which is why he will likely be drafted in the fourth or fifth round.
     

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Reviews-The-East-West-Shrine-Game-Practices.html



    Looks like I may have to adjust my projection a bit as I had him mocked in the 7th, ha... though it make sense that a kid with his size and ability to matchup against today's hybrid TE's would be off the board earlier on Day 3.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Curious to see if BB will have any interest in Army QB Trent Steelman (6-0 207)... who has a great football name and also sounds like an 80's teen movie villian.

    Kid was a four year starter at QB for Army, a definite team leader, showed some definite versatility this week during the Shrine practices (working at Wildcat QB/WR/DB... he even long snapped in the game) and while they wouldn't target him as a QB, he does get the inevitable Edelman comparison, which Mayock mentioned during last nights game... and you know BB loves versatility and has a fondness for academy kids.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     

     



    Hey a person can dream :p

     

    Besides if it happened I wouldn't blaim BB for forgetting about the rest of the draft and just sit in the corner like Gollum strocking a picture of Star saying "my precise, we'z has big plans for you, my precise"

     



    Nice...

     

    do you think there is any meat to this mallet story?



    The story does have legs imo. Mallett was considered a top 20 pick and possible a top 10 pick going into the draft if not for his off field concerns. Since being with the Pats those off field concerns have been addressed so some (like the Browns new VP) who were previously enamered with Mallett might see his value as such. Additionally we are dealing with a perfect storm of a large number of teams looking for QB's, a extremely weak FA/trade market, and a very weak draft class. Of course this trade would heavily favor the Pats so I think other things need to be included. Given the desperation of the Browns and the VP's love of Mallett I think a trade of Mallett our 1st and our 3rd for #6 and a 5th would be possible, maybe not likely but possible. If that does happen it has to be before the draft though because really there is only 1 player I see the Pats targetting that early (Star) so chances are he's a top 5 pick and gone before #6. If that happens then the Pats will want to move back into the teens and they won't be able to do that if the trade happens minutes before the pick.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Mb,

    do the pats let Edelman walk? This army kid makes sense as a developmental type but for once would like us to grab a pure WR that has played the position for some time. 

    There is also Ebert on the ps. Do you think this kid could fill edelmans shoes next year if we let Edelman walk? There are 2 things I like about Edelman I don't or haven't seen in Elbert's game..explosion and lack of fear. He is the perfect compliment but not someone I would make a cornerstone of the offense. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    .... Mallett and our 1st for #6, done and done no trade backs then give me Lotulelei and run out of the draft laughing

     

     



    I think Star would have to really butcher his combine for him to not be picked in the top 3.

     

     



    Hey a person can dream :p

     

    Besides if it happened I wouldn't blaim BB for forgetting about the rest of the draft and just sit in the corner like Gollum strocking a picture of Star saying "my precise, we'z has big plans for you, my precise"

     



    Nice...

     

    do you think there is any meat to this mallet story?

     



    The story does have legs imo. Mallett was considered a top 20 pick and possible a top 10 pick going into the draft if not for his off field concerns. Since being with the Pats those off field concerns have been addressed so some (like the Browns new VP) who were previously enamered with Mallett might see his value as such. Additionally we are dealing with a perfect storm of a large number of teams looking for QB's, a extremely weak FA/trade market, and a very weak draft class. Of course this trade would heavily favor the Pats so I think other things need to be included. Given the desperation of the Browns and the VP's love of Mallett I think a trade of Mallett our 1st and our 3rd for #6 and a 5th would be possible, maybe not likely but possible. If that does happen it has to be before the draft though because really there is only 1 player I see the Pats targetting that early (Star) so chances are he's a top 5 pick and gone before #6. If that happens then the Pats will want to move back into the teens and they won't be able to do that if the trade happens minutes before the pick.

     



    Agree, and this supports everythimg I gave read. My guess is given bb and Lombardis relationship, this thing if executed would be well in advance of the draft. Also agree that Star would be the selection, but even if he is gone, bb now has more ammo via picks to trade down and accululated while possibly grabbing another stud in the 10-15 range like a Hankins or Richardson who I like both, or Jordan or even possibly Woerner. Tons of options to both draft and accumulate at the same time. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Mb,

    do the pats let Edelman walk? This army kid makes sense as a developmental type but for once would like us to grab a pure WR that has played the position for some time. 

    There is also Ebert on the ps. Do you think this kid could fill edelmans shoes next year if we let Edelman walk? There are 2 things I like about Edelman I don't or haven't seen in Elbert's game..explosion and lack of fear. He is the perfect compliment but not someone I would make a cornerstone of the offense. 



    Hey PL,

    Personally, I think they want Edelman back and will make an effort to keep him in Foxboro, don't think the cost would be too high to do so. 

    I too would love to see them bring in a more developed WR on Day 1 or 2, though developmental/upside kids are what you usually target in Rd 7... or even as a URFA.

    Ebert didn't do much last year, so I'd have to say no to him being the default replacement, though we don't see what he's doing in practice every day.  What we do know is that he passed over for the active roster multiple times as they looked to bring in WR depth... or atleast I don't remember him being on the active roster.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    RE: Size of WR's.

    I'm not opposed to size, but I don't think it's a necessity for WR's as some have made it out to to be.  For all the talk about getting the ball down the field, they've been top 5 in YPA (2) out of the last (3) years and were top 10 this year.  They've also been top 4 in passing yards the last (2) seasons, 11th in 2010. 

    What I think they need is players that fit their offensive scheme... players that excel in the short to intermediate game with the ability to create after the catch... if that's a player with size, great, but I don't see it as a necessity at all. 

     




    True.  But it is also about creating mis-matches at every level.  The presence of Welker and his ability to get YAC and sheer production gives us the passing stats you mention.  But we have become a ball control, short passing team since Moss left.  The addition of the 2 stud TEs has given us mismatches in the short and intermediate levels.  Occassionally we go deep to a Gronk, Lloyd or Welker but this is usually because the defense has been cheating to stop the run and short passing game.  I expect BAL to do this a lot since the strength of their defense is their front 7 which matches up well with what we like to do offensively.

     


    Conversely, BAL on offense stretches the field with Torrey Smith and keeps defenses honest vs. loading the box to stop Ray Rice.  Whether we target a tall or not so tall WR, I think we would benefit from a burner who can take the top off a defense.  We may have this on our roster next year if we try Demps at WR more than as a RB/returner. 

    [/QUOTE

    Baltimore can't really hold NE's jock when it comes to offense though, averaging less YPG in both the run and pass.  I do see the value of speed on the perimeter and that wasn't what I was disputing... I was disagreeing with the notion that a big WR is a necessity.

     

     


    I think we are in agreement.  I'm not saying that an outside threat needs to be tall, just fast with hands and route running skills.  Tall would be an added bonus.

     

    As for BAL, they finished 16th overall in offense, 11th in rushing (NE was 7th), 15th in passing (NE was 4th).  But BAL always seems to put up better passing numbers against us then their average perhaps because of their great OL vs. our poor pass rush and weak secondary.  Also, Flacco is very hot right now which worries me.  Brady has his lowest passer rating against Baltimore for his career which also concerns me.  This is likely going to be a very tough and close game.

     



    Yessir... BTW, I sill owe you a sixer for that Thomas/Tate bet.

     

     




    I know you do, LOL.  Hey, what's the deal with Devin Taylor?  Mayock is talking him up.  He reminds of Chandler Jones, had 2 strips in the first half of the East/West. 

     



    We'll have to sync up so I can get that to you, haha.

    Taylor is a kid that we talked about a bunch last year and I think he's an intriguing Day 3 option due to his size, length and athleticism.  His performance today will likely warrant addition review of his 2012 tape from coaches as the consensus seems to be that he underpeformed, especially considering that he had the luxury of playing across from the best edge player in the country (J. Clowney).

     
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