***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Below is my updated and expanded Big 40, new additions highlighted in Red:

     

    Rd 1

    DT- Jesse Williams

    DT- John Hankins

    S- Matt Elam

    OG- Jonathan Cooper

    DT- Sylvester Williams

    WR- DeAndre Hopkins

     

    Rd 1-2

    CB- Logan Ryan

    CB- Desmond Trufant

    OL- Barrett Jones

    CB- Xavier Rhodes

    DT- John Jenkins

     

    Rd 2

    DE/OLB- Tank Carradine

    WR- Quinton Patton

    CB- Jordan Poyer

    C/OG- Travis Frederick

    WR- Robert Woods

     

    Rd 2-3

    S- Jon Cyprien

    CB- Jamar Taylor

    WR/PR- Ace Sanders

    WR- Stedman Bailey

    WR- Markus Wheaton

    LB- Kiko Alonso

     

    Rd 3

    DE/OLB- Lavar Edwards

    S- Bacarri Rambo

    S- Shawn Williams

    DE/OLB- Michael Buchanan

    WR- Ryan Swope

    OG- Brian Winters

    CB- Darius Slay

     

    Rd 4-7

    S- Josh Evans

    WR- Conner Vernon

    S- Zeke Motta

    DL- Quinton Dial

    DL- Kapron Lewis-Moore

    DT- Josh Boyd

    TE- Travis Kelce

    S- Cooper Taylor

    RB- Spencer Ware

    WR- TJ Moe

    DT- Anthony White

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:
    We did lose Mark Anderson but whats his actual worth? If we lose Talib next year they will get a 3rd round pick.

     

    I just read a projection for the 2013 comp picks on "Blogging the Beast" and they have us getting shut out this year.  I have no idea if this is an accurate projection or not, but they seemed pretty credible.  I was hoping for a 6th rounder or so for Green-Ellis, but looks like we may not get it.

     




    well Fenana cancelled out BJGE and I can't really think of anyone else we lost to FA (not released). I wouldn't expect to get any this year. If we loss Wes though and big no big names in I expect at least a 4th next year for Wes

     




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:
    We did lose Mark Anderson but whats his actual worth? If we lose Talib next year they will get a 3rd round pick.

     

    I just read a projection for the 2013 comp picks on "Blogging the Beast" and they have us getting shut out this year.  I have no idea if this is an accurate projection or not, but they seemed pretty credible.  I was hoping for a 6th rounder or so for Green-Ellis, but looks like we may not get it.

     




    well Fenana cancelled out BJGE and I can't really think of anyone else we lost to FA (not released). I wouldn't expect to get any this year. If we loss Wes though and big no big names in I expect at least a 4th next year for Wes

     




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:
    We did lose Mark Anderson but whats his actual worth? If we lose Talib next year they will get a 3rd round pick.

     

    I just read a projection for the 2013 comp picks on "Blogging the Beast" and they have us getting shut out this year.  I have no idea if this is an accurate projection or not, but they seemed pretty credible.  I was hoping for a 6th rounder or so for Green-Ellis, but looks like we may not get it.

     




    well Fenana cancelled out BJGE and I can't really think of anyone else we lost to FA (not released). I wouldn't expect to get any this year. If we loss Wes though and big no big names in I expect at least a 4th next year for Wes

     




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/01/30/what-lies-ahead-for-the-patriots/aqGb4wL0xuU0XqPENmr0BM/story.html?pg=9

     

    According to Boston.com, the Pats need a 3rd down ILB who can cover.  Thoughts on who that could be?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/ILB.php

    Minter, Johnson, and Wort all seem pretty fast according to this chart.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/01/30/what-lies-ahead-for-the-patriots/aqGb4wL0xuU0XqPENmr0BM/story.html?pg=9

     

    According to Boston.com, the Pats need a 3rd down ILB who can cover.  Thoughts on who that could be?



    its one of our many needs, i would not use one of our 3 picks for it (its probably last or 2nd to last on my 6 or so needs for pats)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

     

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/01/30/what-lies-ahead-for-the-patriots/aqGb4wL0xuU0XqPENmr0BM/story.html?pg=9

     

    According to Boston.com, the Pats need a 3rd down ILB who can cover.  Thoughts on who that could be?



    its one of our many needs, i would not use one of our 3 picks for it (its probably last or 2nd to last on my 6 or so needs for pats)

     

     




     

    It's not just about having a quick ILB who can cover on 3rd down. The game is changing. The utility of that cover ILB will soon be, if not yet, beyond 3rd down. Who do you want your ILB to be when...

    1) ...Playing a team who throws 35+ or even 40+ a game? I am pretty sure that even a team that does not throw much will try to challenge NE's passing D, throwing more than they normally do. Last year 4 teams averaged more than 40 passes a game; 15 averaged more than 35. Just below 35 a game are GBP, HOU and STL - teams whose QBs are not bad. 

    2) ...Playing a team who has a good receiving TE? Note that in previous years, you'd seldom have more than 3 TEs in the top 20 receivers (on yards). Last year, there were there were three in the top 10. Gronk was not even there. If that does not concern you, look at the crop of TEs entering the draft this year. They're pretty good. 

    Actually, let me ask you guys this...

    Who would he Pats have on our front 7 if the Pats knew that the other team will be throwing 40+ times?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    mb,

    i see a number of mockers beginning to give one of one of my top receivers (and yours)  hopkins to the pats.

    i still have elite pass rusher as #1 need and if not picked up in fa, its #1 in draft.

    big cb and big wr (the rest of top 3 needs i see [players at these positions ive listed throughout this thread]).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    mb,

    i see a number of mockers beginning to give one of one of my top receivers (and yours)  hopkins to the pats.

    i still have elite pass rusher as #1 need and if not picked up in fa, its #1 in draft.

    big cb and big wr (the rest of top 3 needs i see [players at these positions ive listed throughout this thread]).



    Hopkins certainly makes a ton of sense from a talent/need perspective.

    I have others rated ahead of him, but would be pretty excited to hear his name called for NE on Day 1.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Another big WR and fast:

    The name making the rounds in the scouting community as one of the biggest sleepers at the receiver position is Courtney Gardner of Sierra College.  The 6-foot, 3-inch/220lb pass catcher was expected to play for Oklahoma in 2013 but opted for the NFL draft after academic “difficulties”.  We hear scouts have been raving about the physical skills Gardner brings to the field.  Besides his large frame the big pass catcher also has the speed (10.7 sec in the 100 meters) to match.  Even college coaches in the area are awed by his ability on the field but focusing at the task at hand seems to be an issue.

    http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6730

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    Another big WR and fast:

    The name making the rounds in the scouting community as one of the biggest sleepers at the receiver position is Courtney Gardner of Sierra College.  The 6-foot, 3-inch/220lb pass catcher was expected to play for Oklahoma in 2013 but opted for the NFL draft after academic “difficulties”.  We hear scouts have been raving about the physical skills Gardner brings to the field.  Besides his large frame the big pass catcher also has the speed (10.7 sec in the 100 meters) to match.  Even college coaches in the area are awed by his ability on the field but focusing at the task at hand seems to be an issue.

    http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6730



    Could be a huge issue with NE's complex offense, where NFL veterans can have trouble picking up the nuances.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I think Fresno State's Phillip Thomas could be the most complete FS in the draft, and exactly what BB is looking for at that position.  At 6'1"  215 he has the frame to be a physical defender, but he has also shown tremendous ball skills and coverage skills.  He was also a team captain for Fresno.  Getting him late 2nd round would be very good value.  The only reason he could even fall that far is because he isn't known as a great open-field tackler.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

     

    Another big WR and fast:

    The name making the rounds in the scouting community as one of the biggest sleepers at the receiver position is Courtney Gardner of Sierra College.  The 6-foot, 3-inch/220lb pass catcher was expected to play for Oklahoma in 2013 but opted for the NFL draft after academic “difficulties”.  We hear scouts have been raving about the physical skills Gardner brings to the field.  Besides his large frame the big pass catcher also has the speed (10.7 sec in the 100 meters) to match.  Even college coaches in the area are awed by his ability on the field but focusing at the task at hand seems to be an issue.

    http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6730

     



    Could be a huge issue with NE's complex offense, where NFL veterans can have trouble picking up the nuances.

     



    Good point!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

     

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/01/30/what-lies-ahead-for-the-patriots/aqGb4wL0xuU0XqPENmr0BM/story.html?pg=9

     

    According to Boston.com, the Pats need a 3rd down ILB who can cover.  Thoughts on who that could be?



    its one of our many needs, i would not use one of our 3 picks for it (its probably last or 2nd to last on my 6 or so needs for pats)

     

     




     

    It's not just about having a quick ILB who can cover on 3rd down. The game is changing. The utility of that cover ILB will soon be, if not yet, beyond 3rd down. Who do you want your ILB to be when...

    1) ...Playing a team who throws 35+ or even 40+ a game? I am pretty sure that even a team that does not throw much will try to challenge NE's passing D, throwing more than they normally do. Last year 4 teams averaged more than 40 passes a game; 15 averaged more than 35. Just below 35 a game are GBP, HOU and STL - teams whose QBs are not bad. 

    2) ...Playing a team who has a good receiving TE? Note that in previous years, you'd seldom have more than 3 TEs in the top 20 receivers (on yards). Last year, there were there were three in the top 10. Gronk was not even there. If that does not concern you, look at the crop of TEs entering the draft this year. They're pretty good. 

    Actually, let me ask you guys this...

    Who would he Pats have on our front 7 if the Pats knew that the other team will be throwing 40+ times?



    It does accentuate the need for hybrid defenders which is why I think BB puts so much value in a players versatility and situational football. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    I think Fresno State's Phillip Thomas could be the most complete FS in the draft, and exactly what BB is looking for at that position.  At 6'1"  215 he has the frame to be a physical defender, but he has also shown tremendous ball skills and coverage skills.  He was also a team captain for Fresno.  Getting him late 2nd round would be very good value.  The only reason he could even fall that far is because he isn't known as a great open-field tackler.




    I think he's in the discussion for Day 2 safeties, yes.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Interesting numbers from PFF via Boston Globe:

    QB rating against coverage by:

    Spikes: 116.1 Mayo: 98.9 (82.7% completions)

    Not sure where Hightower came in or if he had enough plays to be rated in pass coverage, but these numbers point to a big area of concern. Whether in man to man or zone the Pats underneath coverage was not good enough. So my question for the gurus here:

    Anybody seeing prospects in the Pats range of picks for good coverage LBs. Or any FAs?

    We seem to be at the start of an explosion in receiving TEs, and the continued use of RBs as receiving threats and the Pats need to counter that.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Interesting numbers from PFF via Boston Globe:

    QB rating against coverage by:

    Spikes: 116.1 Mayo: 98.9 (82.7% completions)

    Not sure where Hightower came in or if he had enough plays to be rated in pass coverage, but these numbers point to a big area of concern. Whether in man to man or zone the Pats underneath coverage was not good enough. So my question for the gurus here:

    Anybody seeing prospects in the Pats range of picks for good coverage LBs. Or any FAs?

    We seem to be at the start of an explosion in receiving TEs, and the continued use of RBs as receiving threats and the Pats need to counter that.



    Did the article provide a league average for both QB rating against and completion % against for LB's?  Did they also provide yards per completion against?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

     

    there should be a mock draft thread prior to the draft to see who is the most accurate. let's see if we have any true draft guru's here lol.

     




    I'm sure everyone will be posting theirs here. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    Watching some old Patriots games (SB2005) and looking at this year.  What stands out is the push from the DL and the edge rushing back then.  The other is outstanding safety play.  That was the year Troy Brown played CB and it seem Wilson and Harrison were everywhere always helping the CBs.  The DL always had a push and would always try to move the QB out of his comfort zone.  The Safeties didn't let anything get behind them.  Another was the chipping and hitting within 5 yards of the LOS.  Every play some one was doing that.  

    With that, I think a Safety and DT/DE will have to be #1 and#2 priority either in FA or Draft. I know some people want a WR, but I think the impact will be greater if these two are filled with quality players. This defense is very young, but not far off.

    In the first 3 rounds in the Patriots range:(no order on players)

    SAFETY                             DT                             DE or OLB34

    Reid                              Jenkins                       Montgomery

    Elam                             Williams, S                  Hunt

    Thomas                         Williams, B                  Goodman

    Rambo                          Short                          Carradine, Tank

    Jefferson                                                         Jenkins, B

    Cyprien                                                           Simon, J

     

    There is probably more, I'll keep looking.  There will also be risers and fallers, for sure.




    I agree pretty much with your assessment.  However, I would not rule out us restricting Chung at the 2nd Round level and hoping someone takes him.  The cost wouldn't be that much ($1.8MM+/-) so if we keep him we have McCourty, Wilson, Chung, Greggory and Ebner at S and that would be a crowded field.  If that happens, I would put a higher emphasis on CB.  The draft is pretty deep at CB so a good player can be had at 61 and perhaps even at 93.  If we assume Talib is back, he and Dennard would appear to be the favorites to start but with Dowling always hurt and the rest could be let go, using a 3rd on CB makes the most sense to me.


    As for DT, if a good one is there at 29, fine but I doubt there will be a good one at 61 so 61 would seem to be the place to go WR.  We do seem to be looking for a taller WR given we played roster tag with Gregg Salas for much of the year before finally settling on Kamar Aiken, another 6-2 WR. 

    With Edelman likely back and Ebert in the wings, we might not go slot if we tag Welker again.  So, I would look for a tall WR to be taken somewhere in the draft and the 2nd round seems like the best value spot.  I guess WR/CB could be interchanged, one in the 2nd, the other in the 3rd.

    What we do with our first pick is the interesting thing to me.  DL is a good guess if one of those studs you mention are there.  But, I would not rule out LB.  We are thin there with only Mayo, Hightower and Spikes as legitimate starters.  Fletcher should be back to back up Spikes.  Jeff Tarpinian was recently signed to a future's contract but that's about it unless you count Ninko and Cunningham as elephant type LBs.  I can see the need for depth at all LB positions.  It would be interesting if an Ogletree or Te'o are there as I think either would be hard to pass on at 29.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Interesting numbers from PFF via Boston Globe:

    QB rating against coverage by:

    Spikes: 116.1 Mayo: 98.9 (82.7% completions)

    Not sure where Hightower came in or if he had enough plays to be rated in pass coverage, but these numbers point to a big area of concern. Whether in man to man or zone the Pats underneath coverage was not good enough. So my question for the gurus here:

    Anybody seeing prospects in the Pats range of picks for good coverage LBs. Or any FAs?

    We seem to be at the start of an explosion in receiving TEs, and the continued use of RBs as receiving threats and the Pats need to counter that.




    Ogletree from Georgia would be my 1st choice of a coverage LB at 29 if he lasts that long.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Interesting numbers from PFF via Boston Globe:

    QB rating against coverage by:

    Spikes: 116.1 Mayo: 98.9 (82.7% completions)

    Not sure where Hightower came in or if he had enough plays to be rated in pass coverage, but these numbers point to a big area of concern. Whether in man to man or zone the Pats underneath coverage was not good enough. So my question for the gurus here:

    Anybody seeing prospects in the Pats range of picks for good coverage LBs. Or any FAs?

    We seem to be at the start of an explosion in receiving TEs, and the continued use of RBs as receiving threats and the Pats need to counter that.

     



    Did the article provide a league average for both QB rating against and completion % against for LB's?  Did they also provide yards per completion against?

     



    Unfortunately, no. But for yardage/first downs/tds the QB rating would be taking that into account. I looked on the PFF site but couldn't find an article so it is probably premium content. And from a fan/no scientifc perspective I remember a lot of watching TE and RBs and underneath crossers running away from LBs after catching the fall or being takled just beyond the sticks.

    On the - not wasting a high draft pick on a coverage LB - when 50+% you are playing in sub defenses, not sure how you define 'starter'. And with more west coast/passing offenses out there first down is just as likely to be a passing down. I think some teams played the pats almost exclusively in sub. And presumably a high draft pick would be a coverage LB with some 3 down ability, not too big a liability against the run.

     

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