***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

     

     



    thanks for the thoughts ricky.

     

    on white:

    WEAKNESSES

     Will be considered a corner/safety ‘tweener by some NFL teams because of lean build and lack of fluidity in his backpedal and overall movement. Might not have the flexibility and foot quickness to trail quicker receivers off the line and to stick on double-moves. His recovery speed is also lacking once his feet stop in coverage. Needs to show he can also use his hands to effectively press, as well as beat receiver blocks outside and stick in coverage against stronger competition.

    and

    alford is 5 10"

    im lokking 6 2" or taller (at least 6 1")

    patterson would be a steal.

    what about pass rush? f agency? 

    love reading  new draft thoughts and strategies.

    and cover lb (bb better not roll into the season thinking fletcher is going to be good enough/fast enoug to do it)

     

    out to gym,

    peace

     



    i think every team would love to have their corners be 6-1+ but that just isn't realistic. you need a certain skill set to play CB and even then you need an even more specific skill set to fit a team's scheme. Seattle looks for the bigger CB's because of their physical style NE usually looks for quick guys with great hips and COD. IDK about you but i'd take Darrelle Revis over Richard Sherman any day of the week.

     

    pass rush i think should be addressed in free agency. NE needs a proven pass rusher they can depend on rather than waiting for another rookie to develop plus i'm hoping Jake Bequette will contribute. same for a coverage LB unless NE is drafting Brandon Spikes eventual replacement. 

    [/QUOTE]

    i agree with all those thoughts (pass rusher who can do the job now, possibel spikes replacement with more speed, but not holding my breath on bequette bb didn tthink much of him this year) including revis. but what kind of odds bb can pick a  a revis? i want height and speed (i dont want much :)

    i see latter post your source has alford at 6 feet. interesting that much difference from 2 diff sounrces. maybe talle rone is with shoes on :)

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

     

     


    i think every team would love to have their corners be 6-1+ but that just isn't realistic. you need a certain skill set to play CB and even then you need an even more specific skill set to fit a team's scheme. Seattle looks for the bigger CB's because of their physical style NE usually looks for quick guys with great hips and COD. IDK about you but i'd take Darrelle Revis over Richard Sherman any day of the week.

     

    pass rush i think should be addressed in free agency. NE needs a proven pass rusher they can depend on rather than waiting for another rookie to develop plus i'm hoping Jake Bequette will contribute. same for a coverage LB unless NE is drafting Brandon Spikes eventual replacement. 

     



    i agree with all those thoughts (pass rusher who can do the job now, possibel spikes replacement with more speed, but not holding my breath on bequette bb didn tthink much of him this year) including revis. but what kind of odds bb can pick a  a revis? i want height and speed (i dont want much :)

     

    i see latter post your source has alford at 6 feet. interesting that much difference from 2 diff sounrces. maybe talle rone is with shoes on :)

    [/QUOTE]

    we will find out for sure come combine time but i would go with the Senior Bowl measurements over other sources. http://www.seniorbowl.com/rosters.asp

    xavier rhodes is the big CB of this draft but he is vulnerable to speed reveivers and can get beat deep. if you're getting burned down field it doesn't matter how tall you are. 5'11-6'1 is plenty tall for a CB those 6'3 guys just aren't available.

    [/QUOTE]

    how vulknerable to speed receivers compared to your guy (s)?  hes got elite speed and looked decent in coverage in clips ive seen.

    thanks or the good info

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    Cornerback Tiers

    I have not evaluated Jamar TaylorDarius SlayDavid AmersonTharold Simon, or Nickell Robey yet.


    Tier One


    Xavier Rhodes: Long-limbed, well-built, physical corner who oozes press coverage ability. When he plays with his feet under him and keeps his hips square, he’s capable of stoning most wide receivers at the line. However, too often he opens the gate and gives the receiver a clean release while trying to press, and he lacks the recovery speed to catch up once beaten. He doesn’t look to have elite speed, and he gets grabby with receivers when beaten. Great lower body strength, allowing him to plant and drive on the ball without having to gather himself. Very willing tackler, however his form needs works and he has a tendency to lunge. Also has a bad habit of giving up the sideline due to taking angles too far upfield.


    Jordan Poyer: Arguably the most technically sound corner in the class. Stays low in his backpedal, keeps his hips square, opens up to run at the correct time, and has a devastating press that completely stalls wide receivers at the line of scrimmage. Has experience playing a lot of different coverages, capable of playing bail and ball-hawking and likes to try and undercut routes. Can line up inside or outside and has experience covering and blitzing from the slot. Short arms and lack of long speed is somewhat of a concern.


    Leon McFadden: Undersized, physical, technically sound corner who compares well to Brandon Flowers. Keeps his hips square through his jam at the line. Excellent mirror skills and can change directions on wide receivers’ double moves easily due to staying square. Willing, aggressive, sound tackler against wide receivers in space and running backs in the ground game.


    Robert Alford: A guy I am admittedly trying to get more video on, but I’ve been ecstatic with what I’ve seen so far in games and during Senior Bowl practices. Might not be able to start outside due to size (5’9, 186), but is a feisty player who has a lot of experience covering and blitzing from the slot. Excellent change-of-direction ability, mirrors receivers by staying square in front of them and not opening his hips up. Great ball skills and excellent vertical. *Measured in at 6-0 185lbs at Senior Bowl


    Tier Two


    Dee Milliner: Experienced boundary corner with impressive length and recovery speed. Very fluid changing directions and can break on the ball in a flash. Plays a lot of bail coverage where he can freelance and play the ball. Willingness and ability to tackle leave a lot to be desired. Has a quick jam to disrupt, but opens the gate too much and gets beat at the line (although he has the recovery speed to catch back up). Mis-times jump balls in the air and might not get his hands on many footballs. Only 20 years old with the arrow ticking up.


    Johnthan Banks: Long corner with a slight frame. Fluid change-of-direction ability. Former safety who is a willing tackler. Primarily plays the boundary corner spot, but does line up in the slot from time to time. Like Milliner, Banks was to play a lot of bail coverage, where he can peek in the backfield, freelance, and try to make plays on the ball. Doesn’t play much press coverage (likely due to lack of bulk), but does play some press-bail, where he shows a quick, disruptive jam. Will need to be taught to play out of a backpedal and continue to fill his frame out, but his ball skills, safety background, willingness to tackle remind me of a young Rashean Mathis.


    B.W. Webb: Small-school corner like Alford who really shined during Senior Bowl week. Has the size to line up outside (5’10, 185), but could stand to add keep adding bulk. Incredible athlete who exhibits an elite closing burst, recovery speed, and the ability to play the ball in the air vertically. Willing tackler, but he has issues fighting his way through wide receivers’ block on screens. Very raw in press coverage; doesn’t shoot his hands, opens his hips up immediately and gets on his heels. Elite punt returner in college, excellent with the ball in his hands.


    Tier Three


    Logan Ryan: Physical underclassman corner whose technique is still very raw. Lost when not playing bail coverage. Gets his hips turned in his press and in his mirror. Flies around and sacrifices his body against the run.


    Desmond Trufant: Has the requisite physical abilities and had an outstanding Senior Bowl week, but lapses in concentration and technique occurred far too often in college. Tight hips are a concern – gets tall in his backpedal, opens up too early, and is prone to getting turned all the way around on double moves due to over-extending.


    Tyrann Mathieu: Heisman contender in 2011 forced to sit out the 2012 season due to off-field incidents. He’s a man without a position – too small and slow to play on the outside, with too tight/narrow of hips and change-of-direction ability to project to the nickel. Incredibly tenacious player, constantly gets his hands on the ball and causes turnovers, and has an impact in the return game.

     

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/42440/325/cornerback-tiers



    Interesting to see Dee Milliner in Tier 2 and Trufant in Tier 3 (I think they are Tier 1 and 2 respectively). Maybe not to the level of Mathieu, but these two are very tenacious CBs. The assessments above don't take that into much consideration. To me that's the most important quality of you;re looking for play-making CBs.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    After seeing BAL win the SB, I want the option to play big DT next to VW, or have a big kid play NT with VW playing DE. I would not mind if they go back to 3-4. 

    I want one of Jenkins, J Williams (the smallest I'd care for) or B Williams.

     

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

     

     


    i think every team would love to have their corners be 6-1+ but that just isn't realistic. you need a certain skill set to play CB and even then you need an even more specific skill set to fit a team's scheme. Seattle looks for the bigger CB's because of their physical style NE usually looks for quick guys with great hips and COD. IDK about you but i'd take Darrelle Revis over Richard Sherman any day of the week.

     

    pass rush i think should be addressed in free agency. NE needs a proven pass rusher they can depend on rather than waiting for another rookie to develop plus i'm hoping Jake Bequette will contribute. same for a coverage LB unless NE is drafting Brandon Spikes eventual replacement. 

     



    i agree with all those thoughts (pass rusher who can do the job now, possibel spikes replacement with more speed, but not holding my breath on bequette bb didn tthink much of him this year) including revis. but what kind of odds bb can pick a  a revis? i want height and speed (i dont want much :)

     

    i see latter post your source has alford at 6 feet. interesting that much difference from 2 diff sounrces. maybe talle rone is with shoes on :)



    we will find out for sure come combine time but i would go with the Senior Bowl measurements over other sources. http://www.seniorbowl.com/rosters.asp

    xavier rhodes is the big CB of this draft but he is vulnerable to speed reveivers and can get beat deep. if you're getting burned down field it doesn't matter how tall you are. 5'11-6'1 is plenty tall for a CB those 6'3 guys just aren't available.

    [/QUOTE]

    how vulknerable to speed receivers compared to your guy (s)?  hes got elite speed and looked decent in coverage in clips ive seen.

    thanks or the good info

    [/QUOTE]


    Alford measured in at 5097-186 at the Senior Bowl, the measurables in the link above appears to be listed heights/weights as they don't seem to match for any player.  Check out the below link which has the actuals for both rosters.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2013-Senior-Bowl-Measureables.html

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Any chance the Patriots can draft Leon Sandcastle? Dude looked good last night.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    Cornerback Tiers

    I have not evaluated Jamar TaylorDarius SlayDavid AmersonTharold Simon, or Nickell Robey yet.


    Tier One


    Xavier Rhodes: Long-limbed, well-built, physical corner who oozes press coverage ability. When he plays with his feet under him and keeps his hips square, he’s capable of stoning most wide receivers at the line. However, too often he opens the gate and gives the receiver a clean release while trying to press, and he lacks the recovery speed to catch up once beaten. He doesn’t look to have elite speed, and he gets grabby with receivers when beaten. Great lower body strength, allowing him to plant and drive on the ball without having to gather himself. Very willing tackler, however his form needs works and he has a tendency to lunge. Also has a bad habit of giving up the sideline due to taking angles too far upfield.


    Jordan Poyer: Arguably the most technically sound corner in the class. Stays low in his backpedal, keeps his hips square, opens up to run at the correct time, and has a devastating press that completely stalls wide receivers at the line of scrimmage. Has experience playing a lot of different coverages, capable of playing bail and ball-hawking and likes to try and undercut routes. Can line up inside or outside and has experience covering and blitzing from the slot. Short arms and lack of long speed is somewhat of a concern.


    Leon McFadden: Undersized, physical, technically sound corner who compares well to Brandon Flowers. Keeps his hips square through his jam at the line. Excellent mirror skills and can change directions on wide receivers’ double moves easily due to staying square. Willing, aggressive, sound tackler against wide receivers in space and running backs in the ground game.


    Robert Alford: A guy I am admittedly trying to get more video on, but I’ve been ecstatic with what I’ve seen so far in games and during Senior Bowl practices. Might not be able to start outside due to size (5’9, 186), but is a feisty player who has a lot of experience covering and blitzing from the slot. Excellent change-of-direction ability, mirrors receivers by staying square in front of them and not opening his hips up. Great ball skills and excellent vertical. *Measured in at 6-0 185lbs at Senior Bowl


    Tier Two


    Dee Milliner: Experienced boundary corner with impressive length and recovery speed. Very fluid changing directions and can break on the ball in a flash. Plays a lot of bail coverage where he can freelance and play the ball. Willingness and ability to tackle leave a lot to be desired. Has a quick jam to disrupt, but opens the gate too much and gets beat at the line (although he has the recovery speed to catch back up). Mis-times jump balls in the air and might not get his hands on many footballs. Only 20 years old with the arrow ticking up.


    Johnthan Banks: Long corner with a slight frame. Fluid change-of-direction ability. Former safety who is a willing tackler. Primarily plays the boundary corner spot, but does line up in the slot from time to time. Like Milliner, Banks was to play a lot of bail coverage, where he can peek in the backfield, freelance, and try to make plays on the ball. Doesn’t play much press coverage (likely due to lack of bulk), but does play some press-bail, where he shows a quick, disruptive jam. Will need to be taught to play out of a backpedal and continue to fill his frame out, but his ball skills, safety background, willingness to tackle remind me of a young Rashean Mathis.


    B.W. Webb: Small-school corner like Alford who really shined during Senior Bowl week. Has the size to line up outside (5’10, 185), but could stand to add keep adding bulk. Incredible athlete who exhibits an elite closing burst, recovery speed, and the ability to play the ball in the air vertically. Willing tackler, but he has issues fighting his way through wide receivers’ block on screens. Very raw in press coverage; doesn’t shoot his hands, opens his hips up immediately and gets on his heels. Elite punt returner in college, excellent with the ball in his hands.


    Tier Three


    Logan Ryan: Physical underclassman corner whose technique is still very raw. Lost when not playing bail coverage. Gets his hips turned in his press and in his mirror. Flies around and sacrifices his body against the run.


    Desmond Trufant: Has the requisite physical abilities and had an outstanding Senior Bowl week, but lapses in concentration and technique occurred far too often in college. Tight hips are a concern – gets tall in his backpedal, opens up too early, and is prone to getting turned all the way around on double moves due to over-extending.


    Tyrann Mathieu: Heisman contender in 2011 forced to sit out the 2012 season due to off-field incidents. He’s a man without a position – too small and slow to play on the outside, with too tight/narrow of hips and change-of-direction ability to project to the nickel. Incredibly tenacious player, constantly gets his hands on the ball and causes turnovers, and has an impact in the return game.

     

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/42440/325/cornerback-tiers




    I'd like to question Alford being in teir 1 but then again McFadden is my kid and he's in teir 1 too so I'm just going to chalk it up to writters personal preference. I'd actually stick both into teir 2 simply because both translate to slot CB's with high upside and I just don't think slot CB's are teir 1 type of CB's unless they are exceptionally gifted.

    On the same note as slot CB's I would toss Mathieu into teir 1 because he is such a rare talent even for someone his size. It does look like talent alone wasn't a main factor for the teiring system so if off-field concerns or projection of draft spot is part of the teiring system Mathieu would be teir 3.

    I guess what I'm saying is it would be nice to know what the qualifications for each teir are before being able to agree or disagree with any of his statements. Not to mention he's not finished evaluating CB's so does that mean players will shift to other teirs (ie Alford and McFadden being pushed back to teir 2) once better players like Milliner, Banks, Trufant are evaluated?

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Any chance the Patriots can draft Leon Sandcastle? Dude looked good last night.




    He looks like an ugly Deion Sanders.

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    Alford measured in at 5097-186 at the Senior Bowl, the measurables in the link above appears to be listed heights/weights as they don't seem to match for any player.  Check out the below link which has the actuals for both rosters.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2013-Senior-Bowl-Measureables.html



    Wow, Malliciah Goodman 35 7/8" arm length 87 3/4" wingspan. Not that is one heck of a wingspan

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Alford measured in at 5097-186 at the Senior Bowl, the measurables in the link above appears to be listed heights/weights as they don't seem to match for any player.  Check out the below link which has the actuals for both rosters.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2013-Senior-Bowl-Measureables.html

     



    Wow, Malliciah Goodman 35 7/8" arm length 87 3/4" wingspan. Not that is one heck of a wingspan

     




    With 10 7/8 inch hands.

    Check out Fluker's 36 3/8 inch arms, ha.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Any chance the Patriots can draft Leon Sandcastle? Dude looked good last night.



    I thought the same thing.

    Can we also draft Bobby Bouchie?

    Yes I cannot spell

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    Any chance the Patriots can draft Leon Sandcastle? Dude looked good last night.

     




    He looks like an ugly Deion Sanders.

     

     




    yeah but did you see that 4.2 40?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    rangs new mock has vaccaro making it to 29. while hes a safety i like, safety is not in our top 3 needs imo. have to look at taking jordan in that scenario.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    weigh in, would you go hopkins (A WIDE RECEIVER IN RD 1)  AT 29? i have big outside  wr as one of our top 3 needs, but does it represent value? if we got a pass rusher in fa, i might could rationalize a top wr in rd 1 and big fast cb after rd 1 (and with other pick going o line or cover lb or safety)

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    its draft talk season; where is everyone on a monday after the sb?

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     




    In this scenario, give me Shariff Floyd pretty easily. Top 15-20 talent at a position of need. He'd look great next to Wilfork. His best fit is as a 3-tech penetrator type which is where he'd play here. He also fits as a 5-tech, when we go with 3 man fronts. I am a big fan Floyd fan, so naturally of that group, it would be easy for me to say Floyd.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    weigh in, would you go hopkins (A WIDE RECEIVER IN RD 1)  AT 29? i have big outside  wr as one of our top 3 needs, but does it represent value? if we got a pass rusher in fa, i might could rationalize a top wr in rd 1 and big fast cb after rd 1 (and with other pick going o line or cover lb or safety)




    Hopkins is a WR that I really like in this draft, but with that said he wouldn't be my number 1 option at 29. I think a lot of it depends on Free Agency obviously, and depending on how things shake out with resignings and players we add, Hopkins could get pushed up higher on players I want at 29. But in a perfect world, there is easier a player of higher value then Hopkins available at 29 or maybe we trade down into the 35-40 pick area where I feel more confident about taking Hopkins.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to sportslover21's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     




     

    In this scenario, give me Shariff Floyd pretty easily. Top 15-20 talent at a position of need. He'd look great next to Wilfork. His best fit is as a 3-tech penetrator type which is where he'd play here. He also fits as a 5-tech, when we go with 3 man fronts. I am a big fan Floyd fan, so naturally of that group, it would be easy for me to say Floyd.



    i am a floyd fan too, but id consider okafor there too.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to sportslover21's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    weigh in, would you go hopkins (A WIDE RECEIVER IN RD 1)  AT 29? i have big outside  wr as one of our top 3 needs, but does it represent value? if we got a pass rusher in fa, i might could rationalize a top wr in rd 1 and big fast cb after rd 1 (and with other pick going o line or cover lb or safety)

     




    Hopkins is a WR that I really like in this draft, but with that said he wouldn't be my number 1 option at 29. I think a lot of it depends on Free Agency obviously, and depending on how things shake out with resignings and players we add, Hopkins could get pushed up higher on players I want at 29. But in a perfect world, there is easier a player of higher value then Hopkins available at 29 or maybe we trade down into the 35-40 pick area where I feel more confident about taking Hopkins.

     



    this reflects my thinking too given this addendum (when trading bak could get hopkins or similar)

     

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