1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/4/2013 8:29 PM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to sportslover21's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    weigh in, would you go hopkins (A WIDE RECEIVER IN RD 1)  AT 29? i have big outside  wr as one of our top 3 needs, but does it represent value? if we got a pass rusher in fa, i might could rationalize a top wr in rd 1 and big fast cb after rd 1 (and with other pick going o line or cover lb or safety)

     




    Hopkins is a WR that I really like in this draft, but with that said he wouldn't be my number 1 option at 29. I think a lot of it depends on Free Agency obviously, and depending on how things shake out with resignings and players we add, Hopkins could get pushed up higher on players I want at 29. But in a perfect world, there is easier a player of higher value then Hopkins available at 29 or maybe we trade down into the 35-40 pick area where I feel more confident about taking Hopkins.

     

     



    this reflects my thinking too given this addendum (when trading bak could get hopkins or similar)

     




    The WR depth in this class is so good that I'd almost rather we pass up on it in Round 1, and trade down into the 35-45 area if we wanted to take a WR with our first pick. Even then I'd rather wait even longer into the middle rounds unless a player of too great value was available with an early pick. Assuming we potentially acquire some more mid-round picks, some of the following guys I really like in the mid-rounds at WR.

     

    Stedman Bailey

    Tavarres King

    Chris Harper

    Ryan Swope

    Kenny Stills

    Ace Sanders

     

    I think if we are able to acquire another mid-round pick or two nabbing 2 of these guys together would be nice, similar to the approach we took in the past with TE, RB, etc. I'd really like a Chris Harper/Tavarres King combo. Or even Bailey/Harper, Bailey/King. Really any of the combos are good ones with the depth in this mid-round area of the draft.

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 3:26 AM EST

    In response to sportslover21's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to sportslover21's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    weigh in, would you go hopkins (A WIDE RECEIVER IN RD 1)  AT 29? i have big outside  wr as one of our top 3 needs, but does it represent value? if we got a pass rusher in fa, i might could rationalize a top wr in rd 1 and big fast cb after rd 1 (and with other pick going o line or cover lb or safety)

     




    Hopkins is a WR that I really like in this draft, but with that said he wouldn't be my number 1 option at 29. I think a lot of it depends on Free Agency obviously, and depending on how things shake out with resignings and players we add, Hopkins could get pushed up higher on players I want at 29. But in a perfect world, there is easier a player of higher value then Hopkins available at 29 or maybe we trade down into the 35-40 pick area where I feel more confident about taking Hopkins.

     

     



    this reflects my thinking too given this addendum (when trading bak could get hopkins or similar)

     

     




    The WR depth in this class is so good that I'd almost rather we pass up on it in Round 1, and trade down into the 35-45 area if we wanted to take a WR with our first pick. Even then I'd rather wait even longer into the middle rounds unless a player of too great value was available with an early pick. Assuming we potentially acquire some more mid-round picks, some of the following guys I really like in the mid-rounds at WR.

     

     

    Stedman Bailey

    Tavarres King

    Chris Harper

    Ryan Swope

    Kenny Stills

    Ace Sanders

     

    I think if we are able to acquire another mid-round pick or two nabbing 2 of these guys together would be nice, similar to the approach we took in the past with TE, RB, etc. I'd really like a Chris Harper/Tavarres King combo. Or even Bailey/Harper, Bailey/King. Really any of the combos are good ones with the depth in this mid-round area of the draft.



    too many needs and 2 few picks to double dip.

    top pass rusher, top  big wr, top big cb when we pick will work for me.

    (o line, cover lb, safety option if we nab any of above in fa)

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:04 AM EST

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     

     

  4. This post has been removed.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:47 AM EST

    not a bad pats mock (mike dussault):

    floyd dt

    dobson wr

    rambo s

    josh boyce wr tcu

    nik beckton ot virginai tech

    i like rambo in rd 3 but value cb over safety so woudl be temtped to go corner there.

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:48 AM EST

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     

     



    montgomery

     



    hey ricky, give it to me, why montgomery over jorden?

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 7:29 AM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    not a bad pats mock (mike dussault):

    floyd dt

    dobson wr

    rambo s

    josh boyce wr tcu

    nik beckton ot virginai tech

    i like rambo in rd 3 but value cb over safety so woudl be temtped to go corner there.

     



    I could see Floyd in the first. The FL connection and has a high talent lever plus fills a need with interior rush that can push outside in scheme formations but Dodson and Rambo really?

     

    Dodson in the 2nd would be a reach. I understand he had a great senior bowl but a senior bowl doesn't make a career. He wasn't even the best WR on a Marshall teeam last season, Shuler had a much better year. I think he'll end up in the late 3rd- late 4th range unless he completely blows out the combine and private workout. I like Dodson as an option and seems like a BB type of guy, doesn't get the spotlight but just makes plays, but if we could get him in the 3rd and get a CB in the 2nd that would be my first option. Oh Dodson also has a number of lower body issues so, yeah don't want to take another injury red flag in the 2nd again

    Rambo is a S I know most of us thought was an option in the 2nd if he came out last year and might have 1st round ceiling but is he all that different from say Wilson? Rambo to me is a pick Dussault made that we are all making. Finding a troubled player with high talent who falls because of off field issues. For me that's either Da'Rick Rodgers or Tyrann Mathieu appearently for Dussault it's Rambo. 

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 9:18 AM EST

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Any chance the Patriots can draft Leon Sandcastle? Dude looked good last night.




    Lol

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 9:20 AM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     




    I like Williams but would probably take Hopkins instead

     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 9:23 AM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     




    I can't imagine Jordan falling that far but I'd take him at 29 in a heartbeat

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 9:29 AM EST

    Anyone have an opinion on PJ Lonergan? I've watched him quite a bit this year and was impressed. I think he's projected to go in rd 6 or 7, which suprises me that he would go that late.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 10:48 AM EST

    BB seemed to get shut out last year on trades after his first two. We have a similar situation this year with a big hole in the draft board for the late middle rounds and I wonder if teams will try to squeeze him again if he looks to trade back? (I still wonder about the Hightower pick as it seemed to really screw with the later manoverability in the draft, and was maybe not the highest need.) What do people think on this subject?

    A few other thoughts - besides top 10/12 talent at receiver I am not sure the track record for later 1st round WR picks vs. 2nd/3rd round WR picks holds up. I am leery of pats using 29 on a WR for this reason. Teams seem to overpay for speed/size at WR in the first round/early second.

    I feel the same way about DT/DE pass rushers - the 'can't miss' talent is gone around 20 as very few teams do not want an upgrade at that position and it is seen as 'high value.' We have a lot of bodies on D-line and I am not eager to overpay in the draft for another body which I think is more likely than getting a stud at 29.

    RT/OG/Center - late 1st round usually has pretty good talent (top 1-3 at the positions) but I am not sure how great the team need is - depends a little on Vollmer/Thomas and what they see in Hix/Zusevics/Cannon

    LB/Safety/and '2nd tier' CB - picks 25-50 is probably the wheel house for those players.

    I would love to see BB trade back from 29 5-10 picks and add to later rounds. Maybe a team with a QB need that wants to get back into the late 1st?

     

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 11:08 AM EST

    In response to mia76's comment:

    BB seemed to get shut out last year on trades after his first two. We have a similar situation this year with a big hole in the draft board for the late middle rounds and I wonder if teams will try to squeeze him again if he looks to trade back? (I still wonder about the Hightower pick as it seemed to really screw with the later manoverability in the draft, and was maybe not the highest need.) What do people think on this subject?

    A few other thoughts - besides top 10/12 talent at receiver I am not sure the track record for later 1st round WR picks vs. 2nd/3rd round WR picks holds up. I am leery of pats using 29 on a WR for this reason. Teams seem to overpay for speed/size at WR in the first round/early second.

    I feel the same way about DT/DE pass rushers - the 'can't miss' talent is gone around 20 as very few teams do not want an upgrade at that position and it is seen as 'high value.' We have a lot of bodies on D-line and I am not eager to overpay in the draft for another body which I think is more likely than getting a stud at 29.

    RT/OG/Center - late 1st round usually has pretty good talent (top 1-3 at the positions) but I am not sure how great the team need is - depends a little on Vollmer/Thomas and what they see in Hix/Zusevics/Cannon

    LB/Safety/and '2nd tier' CB - picks 25-50 is probably the wheel house for those players.

    I would love to see BB trade back from 29 5-10 picks and add to later rounds. Maybe a team with a QB need that wants to get back into the late 1st?

     




    Of all the positions the hardest to predict is WR in the 1st. More fail then succeed unfortunately. That said the last couple years it seems like almost every WR taken in the 1st has hit with relatively few misses. Is this an indication that the evaluators are catching up with the WR's or that it's a random spike of high talent? I wouldn't use a 1st on a WR unless they were a sure thing and even then I'd be hesistant. There is a saying, the surest pick is the one closests to the ball. If you think about it, it's kind of true. DT's, C's, and G's tend to be the surest picks in the draft followed by DE's, LB's, TE's, and T's. RB's, WR's, CB's, and S's seem like the least predictable the further you get away from the 1st pick. Is it because it's harder to predict skill positions against top level talent the NFL presents? Not really sure but I do know that if I had a hole to fill along a line and wanted to go a safer pick I would take a line player over any position first and the outside skilled positions last.

     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 11:59 AM EST

    PatsEng - nice saying - the exception probably being QB which tends to be the most wayward, probably because it ends up being the biggest need for teams and they overpay like crazy in draft capital.

    And I would just say that while DT may have a high hit rate, DT with pressure skill outside the top end probably falls off pretty quickly.

    Separate point - and a little off topic - given Spikes liability in coverage and strength in going forward/attacking the ball, I wonder why the Pats don't try to develop him more as a designated blitzer?

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:14 PM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Floyd... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:16 PM EST

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     

     




    I can't imagine Jordan falling that far but I'd take him at 29 in a heartbeat

     



    ditto

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:17 PM EST

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     




    I like Williams but would probably take Hopkins instead

     



    youd go wr in rd 1?

    if we got a pass rusher in fa, id be ok wr in rd 1.

     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from leatherhelmet. Show leatherhelmet's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:18 PM EST

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     




    Trade down to a 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.. Take Magnus Hunt and Jonathan Cyprien with both 2nd rounders. Grab Zavair Gooden in the 3rd and call me happy!!!!

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:19 PM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     

     

     

    Jordan all day for me... much bigger upside, IMO... and is a much more versatile player.

    Also, Jordan has coverage responsibilities today and has the size/athleticism/length to combat the big/athletic flex TE's that we see in the NFL today.

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:22 PM EST

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     



    good to know

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:22 PM EST

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     

     




     

    Trade down to a 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.. Take Magnus Hunt and Jonathan Cyprien with both 2nd rounders. Grab Zavair Gooden in the 3rd and call me happy!!!!




    I think a trade back is likely.  I've cooled a bit on Hunt... Cyprien I love, as well as Gator S Josh Evans as another option at the back end of Day 2... very physical player, good size.

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:27 PM EST

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     

     




     

    Trade down to a 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.. Take Magnus Hunt and Jonathan Cyprien with both 2nd rounders. Grab Zavair Gooden in the 3rd and call me happy!!!!



    ok happy.

    we'll see on those guys 

    on gooden,

    2013 Senior Bowl, Tuesday: Zaviar Gooden is known for his wheels, not necessarily his physicality. He didn't do much to stand out Tuesday as the second-team weakside linebacker behind Porter. Getting off the snap in edge-rush drills might have been his best work as he struggled to wrap up Gillislee a number of times in 11-on-11. He also seemed to struggle in pass coverage a few times. The good news is that he's got excellent athletic traits that might just need some harnessing. - Dave Richard, CBSSports.com

     

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from leatherhelmet. Show leatherhelmet's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 4:47 PM EST

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     

     




     

    Trade down to a 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.. Take Magnus Hunt and Jonathan Cyprien with both 2nd rounders. Grab Zavair Gooden in the 3rd and call me happy!!!!

     



    ok happy.

     

    we'll see on those guys 

    on gooden,

    2013 Senior Bowl, Tuesday: Zaviar Gooden is known for his wheels, not necessarily his physicality. He didn't do much to stand out Tuesday as the second-team weakside linebacker behind Porter. Getting off the snap in edge-rush drills might have been his best work as he struggled to wrap up Gillislee a number of times in 11-on-11. He also seemed to struggle in pass coverage a few times. The good news is that he's got excellent athletic traits that might just need some harnessing. - Dave Richard, CBSSports.com

     

     



    Then went out to play real well in the game :-)

     We need SPEED !!!!

     

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 5:05 PM EST

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    scenarios:

    no pass rusher in fa.

    vaccaro and elam are gone

    cooper and b jones are gone

    j williams is gone.

    rhodes is gone.

    ansah and jordan are gone.

    as well as all the tier 1 dts/des

    syl williams, sharrif floyd, hopkins and okafor are there. who do you take at 29?

     

     



    Williams, Hopkins, Flody... in that order... I don't have Okafor as a Rd 1 kid.

     

     




     

    Trade down to a 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.. Take Magnus Hunt and Jonathan Cyprien with both 2nd rounders. Grab Zavair Gooden in the 3rd and call me happy!!!!

     



    ok happy.

     

    we'll see on those guys 

    on gooden,

    2013 Senior Bowl, Tuesday: Zaviar Gooden is known for his wheels, not necessarily his physicality. He didn't do much to stand out Tuesday as the second-team weakside linebacker behind Porter. Getting off the snap in edge-rush drills might have been his best work as he struggled to wrap up Gillislee a number of times in 11-on-11. He also seemed to struggle in pass coverage a few times. The good news is that he's got excellent athletic traits that might just need some harnessing. - Dave Richard, CBSSports.com

     

     



    Then went out to play real well in the game :-)

     We need SPEED !!!!

     



    i agree on the need for speed to cover and tackle. didnt see the game. any reviews welcome!(of the game,players).  didnt sound good in that description.

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    posted at 2/5/2013 6:05 PM EST

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    another scenario:

    ffuture new mock has montgomery at 29, jordan at 30.

    what would you do?

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/nflmockdraft.html

     

     

     

    Jordan all day for me... much bigger upside, IMO... and is a much more versatile player.

    Also, Jordan has coverage responsibilities today and has the size/athleticism/length to combat the big/athletic flex TE's that we see in the NFL today.




    I agree. He's a pass rusher who has experience covering slot. He probably can cover a TE.