***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Take a look at a kid named Marquess Wilson WR. He's got good size, a bit on the slowly side but a good overall WR. He had major issues with his old team which will cause him to drop on most draft boards but might end up being a mid round gem. He's got good hands and great body control making him an ideal red zone threat. The kids also a fighter and doesn't go down easy

     

     

    Wilson is definitally a name to keep in mind.  After a strong Sophomore season, many draft experts had him slotted as a Top 10 pick in this draft.  However, last year was nothing short of a disaster for Wilson.  He never did see eye to eye with new Wazzu coach, Mike Leach, and quickly got in his doghouse.  Wilson eventually got kicked off of the team due to his "me first" poor attitude, and went on to accuse Leach of "abusing the players" (charges that were later proved to be untrue.)  The talent is clearly evident with Marquise Wilson.  He is a tall but some-what lanky WR with plus speed, hands, and route-running ability.  His character issues that arose last year are a huge red flag though, and make him a risky prospect.  He could slide into Day 3 of the draft, and if he does he could be a very good risk/reward pick, similar to Dennard last year.



    This kid has what this team needs at the receiver position, size and speed.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    Hey MB going to start looking at some players. Who's missing from the following list of players I should check out? Also which 20 players should I illiminate as they are never going to be even close to the Patriots 1st rd drafting spot? Thanks

     

    Corner Backs

    1. Dee Milliner
    2. Johnathan Banks
    3. Xavier Rhodes
    4. Jordan Poyer
    5. Desmond Trufant
    6. Jamar Taylor
    7. Robert Alford
    8. Logan Ryan
    9. Leon McFadden
    10. Blidi Wreh-Wilson
    11. B.W. Webb
    12. David Amerson

        Defensive Ends

    1. Bjoern Werner
    2. Dion Jordan
    3. Demontre Moore
    4. Datone Jones
    5. Barkevious Mingo
    6. Ezekial Ansah
    7. Alex Okafor
    8. Sam Montgomery
    9. Tank Carradine
    10. Margus Hunt

        Defensive Tackles

    1. Star Lotulelei
    2. Shariff Floyd
    3. Sheldon Richardson
    4. Jesse Williams
    5. Jonathan Hankins
    6. John Jenkins
    7. Sylvester Williams
    8. Kawaan Short
    9. Akeem Spence
    10. Brandon Williams
    11. Cory Grissom

        Safeties

    1. Kenny Vaccarro
    2. Matt Elam
    3. Jonathan Cyprien
    4. Eric Reid
    5. Shawn Williams
    6. Phillip Thomas
    7. Bacarri Rambo
    8. Tony Jefferson

        Wide Receivers

    1. Keenan Allen (P)
    2. Cordarrelle Patterson (F)
    3. DeAndre Hopkins (F)
    4. Justin Hunter (P)
    5. Tavon Austin (S)
    6. Robert Woods (F)
    7. Aaron Dobson (P)
    8. Quinton Patton (F)
    9. Stedman Bailey (S)
    10. Terrance WIlliams (F)
    11. Markus Wheaton (S)
    12. Da'Rick Rogers (P)
    13. Ryan Swope (F)
    14. Chris Harper (F)

        Offensive Lineman

    1. Luke Joekel OT
    2. Chance Warmack OG
    3. Jonathan Cooper OG
    4. Eric Fisher OT
    5. Lane Johnson OT
    6. Barrett Jones C/OG
    7. Brennan Williams OT
    8. Larry Warford OG
    9. DJ Fluker OT
    10. Travis Frederick C/OG
    11. Brian Schwenke C/OG
    12. David Quessenberry OT
    13. Oday Aboushi OT

        Linebackers

    1. Alec Ogletree
    2. Arthur Brown

     



    Hi Low,

     

    Below are some additional names, I'll try and address the other question later on:

     

    Corner Backs :

    Darius Slay- MSU

    Dwayne Gratz- UConn

    Tharold Simon- LSU

    Terry Hawthorne- Illinois

     

    Defensive Ends :

     Lavar Edwards- LSU

    Michael Buchanan- Illinois

    Devin Taylor- South Carolina

    Quinton Dial- Alabama

    Kapron Lewis-Moore- ND

     

    Defensive Tackles:

    Josh Boyd- MSU

    Anthony Rashad White- Michigan State

    Abry Jones- Georgia

     

    Safeties :

    Josh Evans- Florida

    DJ Swearinger- South Carolina

    Zeke Motta- ND

    Cooper Taylor- Richmond

    Bradley McDougald- Kansas

    John Boyett- Oregon

    Shamarko Thomas- Syracuse

     

    Wide Receivers :

    Ace Sanders- South Carolina

    Conner Vernon- Duke

    Chad Bumphis- MSU

    TJ Moe- Missouri

     

     

    Offensive Lineman :

    OG/OT- Brian Winters- Kent State

    OG- Kyle Long- Oregon

    OG- Hugh Thornton- Illinois

    OG- Jeff Baca- UCLA

    OG- Braden Hansen

     

    Linebackers:

    LB- Kiko Alonso- Oregon

    LB- Sio Moore- UConn

    OLB /DE- John Simon- OSU

    ILB- Zach Boren- OSU

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Hey MB going to start looking at some players. Who's missing from the following list of players I should check out? Also which 20 players should I illiminate as they are never going to be even close to the Patriots 1st rd drafting spot? Thanks

     

    Corner Backs

    1. Dee Milliner
    2. Johnathan Banks
    3. Xavier Rhodes
    4. Jordan Poyer
    5. Desmond Trufant
    6. Jamar Taylor
    7. Robert Alford
    8. Logan Ryan
    9. Leon McFadden
    10. Blidi Wreh-Wilson
    11. B.W. Webb
    12. David Amerson

        Defensive Ends

    1. Bjoern Werner
    2. Dion Jordan
    3. Demontre Moore
    4. Datone Jones
    5. Barkevious Mingo
    6. Ezekial Ansah
    7. Alex Okafor
    8. Sam Montgomery
    9. Tank Carradine
    10. Margus Hunt

        Defensive Tackles

    1. Star Lotulelei
    2. Shariff Floyd
    3. Sheldon Richardson
    4. Jesse Williams
    5. Jonathan Hankins
    6. John Jenkins
    7. Sylvester Williams
    8. Kawaan Short
    9. Akeem Spence
    10. Brandon Williams
    11. Cory Grissom

        Safeties

    1. Kenny Vaccarro
    2. Matt Elam
    3. Jonathan Cyprien
    4. Eric Reid
    5. Shawn Williams
    6. Phillip Thomas
    7. Bacarri Rambo
    8. Tony Jefferson

        Wide Receivers

    1. Keenan Allen (P)
    2. Cordarrelle Patterson (F)
    3. DeAndre Hopkins (F)
    4. Justin Hunter (P)
    5. Tavon Austin (S)
    6. Robert Woods (F)
    7. Aaron Dobson (P)
    8. Quinton Patton (F)
    9. Stedman Bailey (S)
    10. Terrance WIlliams (F)
    11. Markus Wheaton (S)
    12. Da'Rick Rogers (P)
    13. Ryan Swope (F)
    14. Chris Harper (F)

        Offensive Lineman

    1. Luke Joekel OT
    2. Chance Warmack OG
    3. Jonathan Cooper OG
    4. Eric Fisher OT
    5. Lane Johnson OT
    6. Barrett Jones C/OG
    7. Brennan Williams OT
    8. Larry Warford OG
    9. DJ Fluker OT
    10. Travis Frederick C/OG
    11. Brian Schwenke C/OG
    12. David Quessenberry OT
    13. Oday Aboushi OT

        Linebackers

    1. Alec Ogletree
    2. Arthur Brown



    From your player list, below are the kids that I feel are Top 20 locks at this point.

    Dee Milliner

    Bjoern Werner

    Dion Jordan

    Damontre Moore

    Barkevious Mingo

    Ezekial Ansah

    Star Lotulelei

    Sheldon Richardson

    Kenny Vaccaro

    Keenan Allen (P)

    Luke Joeckel OT

    Chance Warmack OG

    Eric Fisher OT

    Lane Johnson OT

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     




    Wouldn't suprise me at all.  Neither would Jonathan Cooper from UNC.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     



    not when we have such high needs at pass rusher, outside wr and cb.

    3rd rd i can see, i think our offesive line has to improve in teh run and pass game.

    baltimore for one made both of those apparent

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     



    I agree BPA, if they can't move out.  The key is QB's.  If we see 1 go in the first 10 picks then the 2nd rd is where at least 3 will go.  However, one team will move up to get their guy.  NE would be a perfect spot to pick up that QB.  The area with value seems to be around picks 40-100.  The influx of underclassmen has made it a strong class for DT, S, WR and CB. RB and DE, OT, OG are avg. TE is limited. It seems what the NEPats need fits well with the quality that is available.  Again, if we are active in FA and fill some needs BPA will fit the bill.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     




    I don't like the BPA logic when it comes to BB and the draft. It seems in the first when he goes that route he tends to fall on his face, but when he drafts for need he hits homeruns.

    Watson, Maroney, Meriweather were all BPA type of players. Wilfork, Mccourty, Jones, Mayo, Mankins were all need type of picks. One thing about BB though is, with the exception of Brace and Cunningham he is dead on when drafting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. I'd still let him target a DL first and foremost over any other position, I wouldn't touch WR in the 1st, after that though I'd be willing to take BPA between CB and OL

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     

     




    I don't like the BPA logic when it comes to BB and the draft. It seems in the first when he goes that route he tends to fall on his face, but when he drafts for need he hits homeruns.

     

    Watson, Maroney, Meriweather were all BPA type of players. Wilfork, Mccourty, Jones, Mayo, Mankins were all need type of picks. One thing about BB though is, with the exception of Brace and Cunningham he is dead on when drafting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. I'd still let him target a DL first and foremost over any other position, I wouldn't touch WR in the 1st, after that though I'd be willing to take BPA between CB and OL



    I don't remember on Watson but Maroney and Meriweather were absolutely NEED picks that year. Unfortunatley for the Patriots, as is often the case, Nelson and Griffin were already gone. Also unfortunately they just chose the wrong RB, they took the platoon guy over the guy who was unstopable in college even though he was the only real weapon his team had on offense.

    Wilfork was just a flat-out gift. I do not recall "anyone" expecting him to slide to the Patriots. I do not recall if he was a need that year but he was absolutely the BPA at that point.

    Mankins was just one of those guys they fell in love with. Prior to a day or two before the draft he was not on anyones 1st round mock that I recall and then it broke that the Patriots loved him.

    Brace was an absolute need pick for security and leverage. They were trying to cover themselves in the event that the WIlfork hold out did not go well.

    ...at least that's my recollection but then again it might not be what it used to be.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     

     




    I don't like the BPA logic when it comes to BB and the draft. It seems in the first when he goes that route he tends to fall on his face, but when he drafts for need he hits homeruns.

     

    Watson, Maroney, Meriweather were all BPA type of players. Wilfork, Mccourty, Jones, Mayo, Mankins were all need type of picks. One thing about BB though is, with the exception of Brace and Cunningham he is dead on when drafting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. I'd still let him target a DL first and foremost over any other position, I wouldn't touch WR in the 1st, after that though I'd be willing to take BPA between CB and OL

     



    I don't remember on Watson but Maroney and Meriweather were absolutely NEED picks that year. Unfortunatley for the Patriots, as is often the case, Nelson and Griffin were already gone. Also unfortunately they just chose the wrong RB, they took the platoon guy over the guy who was unstopable in college even though he was the only real weapon his team had on offense.

     

    Wilfork was just a flat-out gift. I do not recall "anyone" expecting him to slide to the Patriots. I do not recall if he was a need that year but he was absolutely the BPA at that point.

    Mankins was just one of those guys they fell in love with. Prior to a day or two before the draft he was not on anyones 1st round mock that I recall and then it broke that the Patriots loved him.

    Brace was an absolute need pick for security and leverage. They were trying to cover themselves in the event that the WIlfork hold out did not go well.

    ...at least that's my recollection but then again it might not be what it used to be.




    They went from Smith to Dillion and have never really relied heavily on RB's in the past so I wouldn't call a RB in the 1st a need pick by anymeans. BB's has always been willing to find RB's in the market to fill roles, esp in the year Maroney was taken so I don't consider him a need pick. I even remember that draft the commentators say the Pats get richer with a luxury RB pick.


    Meriweather you might have a case for, but they had Sanders, Wilson, and Harrison going into the draft. Sanders and Wilson were both playing at acceptable levels and Harrison was a SS not a FS so again I wouldn't say Meriweather was a need. Might have been a nice upgrade but they had starters going into camp at his position.

    We got lucky Wilfork dropped but it doesn't mean we didn't need a NT at that time. We had Washington I believe the year before who was ready to retire and no one behind him.

    Mankins regardless whether they fell in love with him or not they needed a starting G as they had maybe 1 starting RG (Neal)

    Brace was an absolute need pick that blew up but I fully admitted that so not sure what your question was towards him?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     

     




    I don't like the BPA logic when it comes to BB and the draft. It seems in the first when he goes that route he tends to fall on his face, but when he drafts for need he hits homeruns.

     

    Watson, Maroney, Meriweather were all BPA type of players. Wilfork, Mccourty, Jones, Mayo, Mankins were all need type of picks. One thing about BB though is, with the exception of Brace and Cunningham he is dead on when drafting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. I'd still let him target a DL first and foremost over any other position, I wouldn't touch WR in the 1st, after that though I'd be willing to take BPA between CB and OL

     



     

    Fair enough.  I'm beginning to agree with you about not touching a WR in the 1st.  I really like Hopkins, but I think there will be better value available at #29 than him.  Someone will fall, always happens.  If we were to be able to trade back into the 40's or so, I'd be a lot more comfortable drafting a WR there.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    By way of oversimplification, a drafting philosophy that espouses drafting the BPA irrespective of team needs has its merits. As in all philosophical "what if" discussions there should be qualifiers before committing to that strategy.

    For example, the Patriots drafted  Tavon Wilson in the second round in the 2012 draft because of NEED as well as the opinion that TW was the best S/CB prospect available. Within easy reach was a blue chip OL prospect (Peter Konz) who fell to the 55th pick because of concerns over a history of ankle concerns. The BPA concept pitted an almost unknow S/CB prospect against a future hall of fame OL selection. It wasn't a purely BPA concept but one based on BPA at a position of need. The Patriots could have moved up to select Konz (who has already distinguished himsel with Atlanta) instead of the "reaches" in later rounds.

    More germane, in the 2013 draft most would agree that our greatest need is for a penetrating DL. Do we select the BPA among DL or do we look to draft the highest graded player on the board? Some have already opinioned that we're so strong at QB, TE and RB that with those exceptions we should look at BPA. When comparing two or more prospects with similar draft grades we would be inclined to take the one that fits our system best or best reflects team needs.

    Once again reflecting on our 2012 third round selection who has yet to prove his worth, we were again stressing a position of need. The rest of the 2012 draft seems equally puzzling in that higher drafting grades (Patriots system) were assigned to players who had good (not great college performances) with the exception of Dennard.

    While we struggle deciding who the Patriots should draft, what exactly IS the Patriots system? While many love the concept of drafting the BPA it's clear that the Pats have more often looked at BPA at positions of need at least in recent drafts.

    To those that like the concept of drafting the BPA, when should this drafting approach be utilized? Do we first fill positions of need in FA and then draft into the postional strength of the 2013 draft irrespective of positions of need? Or do we trade down to multiply our selections when apparently similar values exists between the 29th pick and the next 40 selections?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to moskk's comment:

    By way of oversimplification, a drafting philosophy that espouses drafting the BPA irrespective of team needs has its merits. As in all philosophical "what if" discussions there should be qualifiers before committing to that strategy.

    For example, the Patriots drafted  Tavon Wilson in the second round in the 2012 draft because of NEED as well as the opinion that TW was the best S/CB prospect available. Within easy reach was a blue chip OL prospect (Peter Konz) who fell to the 55th pick because of concerns over a history of ankle concerns. The BPA concept pitted an almost unknow S/CB prospect against a future hall of fame OL selection. It wasn't a purely BPA concept but one based on BPA at a position of need. The Patriots could have moved up to select Konz (who has already distinguished himsel with Atlanta) instead of the "reaches" in later rounds.

    More germane, in the 2013 draft most would agree that our greatest need is for a penetrating DL. Do we select the BPA among DL or do we look to draft the highest graded player on the board? Some have already opinioned that we're so strong at QB, TE and RB that with those exceptions we should look at BPA. When comparing two or more prospects with similar draft grades we would be inclined to take the one that fits our system best or best reflects team needs.

    Once again reflecting on our 2012 third round selection who has yet to prove his worth, we were again stressing a position of need. The rest of the 2012 draft seems equally puzzling in that higher drafting grades (Patriots system) were assigned to players who had good (not great college performances) with the exception of Dennard.

    While we struggle deciding who the Patriots should draft, what exactly IS the Patriots system? While many love the concept of drafting the BPA it's clear that the Pats have more often looked at BPA at positions of need at least in recent drafts.

    To those that like the concept of drafting the BPA, when should this drafting approach be utilized? Do we first fill positions of need in FA and then draft into the postional strength of the 2013 draft irrespective of positions of need? Or do we trade down to multiply our selections when apparently similar values exists between the 29th pick and the next 40 selections?




    Well said.  The consensus "BPA" among the experts, scouts, etc. seems to nearly always differ from BB's thinking.  I think that the main reason for this is because Belichick looks for who can fill a specific role on the team, rather than who is the better overall player.  Is this the best method of drafting?  Maybe, maybe not.  Belichick has had his fair amount of misses on draft day, but in my opinion he has done very well with through the years all things considered.  It is hard to argue with the team's sustained success over the past decase plus, so BB is certainly doing something right.  I think that this is why Patriots fans can enjoy following the draft so much.  You can be guaranteed to be suprised by the results every year. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to moskk's comment:

    By way of oversimplification, a drafting philosophy that espouses drafting the BPA irrespective of team needs has its merits. As in all philosophical "what if" discussions there should be qualifiers before committing to that strategy.

    For example, the Patriots drafted  Tavon Wilson in the second round in the 2012 draft because of NEED as well as the opinion that TW was the best S/CB prospect available. Within easy reach was a blue chip OL prospect (Peter Konz) who fell to the 55th pick because of concerns over a history of ankle concerns. The BPA concept pitted an almost unknow S/CB prospect against a future hall of fame OL selection. It wasn't a purely BPA concept but one based on BPA at a position of need. The Patriots could have moved up to select Konz (who has already distinguished himsel with Atlanta) instead of the "reaches" in later rounds.

    More germane, in the 2013 draft most would agree that our greatest need is for a penetrating DL. Do we select the BPA among DL or do we look to draft the highest graded player on the board? Some have already opinioned that we're so strong at QB, TE and RB that with those exceptions we should look at BPA. When comparing two or more prospects with similar draft grades we would be inclined to take the one that fits our system best or best reflects team needs.

    Once again reflecting on our 2012 third round selection who has yet to prove his worth, we were again stressing a position of need. The rest of the 2012 draft seems equally puzzling in that higher drafting grades (Patriots system) were assigned to players who had good (not great college performances) with the exception of Dennard.

    While we struggle deciding who the Patriots should draft, what exactly IS the Patriots system? While many love the concept of drafting the BPA it's clear that the Pats have more often looked at BPA at positions of need at least in recent drafts.

    To those that like the concept of drafting the BPA, when should this drafting approach be utilized? Do we first fill positions of need in FA and then draft into the postional strength of the 2013 draft irrespective of positions of need? Or do we trade down to multiply our selections when apparently similar values exists between the 29th pick and the next 40 selections?



    The wild card is gauging BPA according to mainstream publications/perception (which can vary greatly) vs. BPA according to BB/NC. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I have seen various posters list positions of need as S, DT, WR, CB. Some also mentioned DE. 

    No particular order above. In terms of FA, I think if you agree with the above positions of need, need to ask, what positions have the best FA's depth wise and which (ranked) typically get paid the highest? I would do the same exercise with the draft in terms of depth through round 3 specifically. 

    seems like good depth at DT, WR and cb in this draft. There are a few good safeties, but I think the quality drops off considerably after round 2. Honestly, if we are looking for a starting safety, Matt Elam is the only kid I am looking at. If for depth, there are others. It will depend a ton on tavon Wilson...can he be a starter or more like a situational player? 

    There are some good safeties available in FA, but will be costly. Same with DT like Melton and Starks. Cb as well. WR there are a few, but some we can pickup t reasonable cost like amendola or hartLine. Are they fits? Yes, but not elite if this is what we are looking for. 

    Personally, if we let welker walk, I think we have to replace him with a vet. I am not confident in bb drafting here, nor the offensive learning curve For our systeM. On the DT position, I think we can draft here given the depth and draft someone who can compliment vw at a cheap price. At CB, Talib is going to cost . given his injuries, and question marks, I may not decide to pay him. However, given we have a young secondaey, are we forced to sign him for continuity purposes? If we don't sign him, I would,look to grab a cb high in this draft. If we go this route, I am paying for a certain safety and getting the best one out there.

    so, in summary, how it pertains to FA and the draft...

    1. Round 1...drafting Hankins, Richardson, jemkins at DT if available, if not, grabbing Rhodes at cb

    2. Round 2... If Rhodes drafted round 1,  I grab kawaan short, floyd or Bennie logan...If not drafted, imam grabbing poyer, Trufant at cb.

    3. Signing gholdson or Byrd to play safety. Delmas or Moore alternative.

    4. Signing another WR If welker walks. Don't know who yet...maybe hartline, Bowe, jennings

    5. Drafting WR in round 3...Swope, da'rick Rogers, others...depth and development, contributes some in year 1, but we are signing another WR in FA...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm smelling a BB special : At 29 if they remain there Barrett Jones.

     

     



    would you spend a 1 round in a offensive lineman? we are good at OL not great but good

     

     



    In our situation, I'd draft the Best Player Available that isn't a QB or TE in the 1st round, if we can't trade back.  If we do in fact pick at #29 and the best player on the board in BB's eyes is an O-Lineman, then that's fine by me.

     

     




    I don't like the BPA logic when it comes to BB and the draft. It seems in the first when he goes that route he tends to fall on his face, but when he drafts for need he hits homeruns.

     

    Watson, Maroney, Meriweather were all BPA type of players. Wilfork, Mccourty, Jones, Mayo, Mankins were all need type of picks. One thing about BB though is, with the exception of Brace and Cunningham he is dead on when drafting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. I'd still let him target a DL first and foremost over any other position, I wouldn't touch WR in the 1st, after that though I'd be willing to take BPA between CB and OL

     



    I don't remember on Watson but Maroney and Meriweather were absolutely NEED picks that year. Unfortunatley for the Patriots, as is often the case, Nelson and Griffin were already gone. Also unfortunately they just chose the wrong RB, they took the platoon guy over the guy who was unstopable in college even though he was the only real weapon his team had on offense.

     

    Wilfork was just a flat-out gift. I do not recall "anyone" expecting him to slide to the Patriots. I do not recall if he was a need that year but he was absolutely the BPA at that point.

    Mankins was just one of those guys they fell in love with. Prior to a day or two before the draft he was not on anyones 1st round mock that I recall and then it broke that the Patriots loved him.

    Brace was an absolute need pick for security and leverage. They were trying to cover themselves in the event that the WIlfork hold out did not go well.

    ...at least that's my recollection but then again it might not be what it used to be.

     




    They went from Smith to Dillion and have never really relied heavily on RB's in the past so I wouldn't call a RB in the 1st a need pick by anymeans. BB's has always been willing to find RB's in the market to fill roles, esp in the year Maroney was taken so I don't consider him a need pick. I even remember that draft the commentators say the Pats get richer with a luxury RB pick.

     


    Meriweather you might have a case for, but they had Sanders, Wilson, and Harrison going into the draft. Sanders and Wilson were both playing at acceptable levels and Harrison was a SS not a FS so again I wouldn't say Meriweather was a need. Might have been a nice upgrade but they had starters going into camp at his position.

    We got lucky Wilfork dropped but it doesn't mean we didn't need a NT at that time. We had Washington I believe the year before who was ready to retire and no one behind him.

    Mankins regardless whether they fell in love with him or not they needed a starting G as they had maybe 1 starting RG (Neal)

    Brace was an absolute need pick that blew up but I fully admitted that so not sure what your question was towards him?

     




     

    Smith and Dillon, Dillon especially played played a huge part of their success. Dillon was on his last legs and effectively gone since they knew they were not keeping him and they did not have a feature back to follow. I believe it is why they drafted one in the first round and it was widely speculated that they should take one but might not because of the reasons of possible philosophy/opinion on value of the position, as you mentioned. In his 2nd year, after Dillon left, he ended up starting half the games and was a big part of the team winning in the post season prior to the superbowl. Back to back 122 yard rushing games. A Huge one against the chargers, saving Brady's bacon. Also the draft leading into the 2007 year was not a deep one for RB's. I still maintain it was a need pick. Just the wrong one. Just my opinion.

    As far as Meri, they did have some safties but there were many other factors to that. Rodney was aging. They were not going to keep Wilson, that proved out. They always want to deal from a position of strength and do not wait till the year they HAVE to have the player. They will often try to get a player for during the FA year of the position in question. Meri played in all 16 games, playing both at CB and S. More Nickel CB. It was Samuels, Wilson, and Gays FA seasons and Harrison was on his last legs. Rodney and Hobbs both only lasted 1 more season. They tried to trade up for Revis bu the Rat knew their plans after being the DC for the Pats and offered more to get him for the Jets. They took Meri because he covered both impending needs at CB(previous experience) & S.

    The only thing about Wilfork was that he ALSO fit BPA. I was not disputing he was a need, I did not remember. I just don't think its a good example of saying see when they draft strictly for need they do better. Wilfork was both need and BPA was all I was saying.

    My only point on Mankins was that if he was a need only and not also BPA for them then why the 1st round? It's the same argument you made "against" Maroney being a need. Not sure they tpyically draft 1st rd guards. I think Mankins probably fit both just like Wilfork. They had a need and just happend to love a guy and was a BPA as well as need for them.

    As for Brace I wasn't sure from the way it was written how you interpreted him. I know you said the pick did not work but was unsure in the context that you wrote it if it was a need or BPA fail. I guess I was just giving my opinion on why I felt they drafted him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    Hey MB going to start looking at some players. Who's missing from the following list of players I should check out? Also which 20 players should I illiminate as they are never going to be even close to the Patriots 1st rd drafting spot? Thanks

     

    Corner Backs

    1. Dee Milliner
    2. Johnathan Banks
    3. Xavier Rhodes
    4. Jordan Poyer
    5. Desmond Trufant
    6. Jamar Taylor
    7. Robert Alford
    8. Logan Ryan
    9. Leon McFadden
    10. Blidi Wreh-Wilson
    11. B.W. Webb
    12. David Amerson

        Defensive Ends

    1. Bjoern Werner
    2. Dion Jordan
    3. Demontre Moore
    4. Datone Jones
    5. Barkevious Mingo
    6. Ezekial Ansah
    7. Alex Okafor
    8. Sam Montgomery
    9. Tank Carradine
    10. Margus Hunt

        Defensive Tackles

    1. Star Lotulelei
    2. Shariff Floyd
    3. Sheldon Richardson
    4. Jesse Williams
    5. Jonathan Hankins
    6. John Jenkins
    7. Sylvester Williams
    8. Kawaan Short
    9. Akeem Spence
    10. Brandon Williams
    11. Cory Grissom

        Safeties

    1. Kenny Vaccarro
    2. Matt Elam
    3. Jonathan Cyprien
    4. Eric Reid
    5. Shawn Williams
    6. Phillip Thomas
    7. Bacarri Rambo
    8. Tony Jefferson

        Wide Receivers

    1. Keenan Allen (P)
    2. Cordarrelle Patterson (F)
    3. DeAndre Hopkins (F)
    4. Justin Hunter (P)
    5. Tavon Austin (S)
    6. Robert Woods (F)
    7. Aaron Dobson (P)
    8. Quinton Patton (F)
    9. Stedman Bailey (S)
    10. Terrance WIlliams (F)
    11. Markus Wheaton (S)
    12. Da'Rick Rogers (P)
    13. Ryan Swope (F)
    14. Chris Harper (F)

        Offensive Lineman

    1. Luke Joekel OT
    2. Chance Warmack OG
    3. Jonathan Cooper OG
    4. Eric Fisher OT
    5. Lane Johnson OT
    6. Barrett Jones C/OG
    7. Brennan Williams OT
    8. Larry Warford OG
    9. DJ Fluker OT
    10. Travis Frederick C/OG
    11. Brian Schwenke C/OG
    12. David Quessenberry OT
    13. Oday Aboushi OT

        Linebackers

    1. Alec Ogletree
    2. Arthur Brown

     



    From your player list, below are the kids that I feel are Top 20 locks at this point.

     

    Dee Milliner

    Bjoern Werner

    Dion Jordan

    Damontre Moore

    Barkevious Mingo

    Ezekial Ansah

    Star Lotulelei

    Sheldon Richardson

    Kenny Vaccaro

    Keenan Allen (P)

    Luke Joeckel OT

    Chance Warmack OG

    Eric Fisher OT

    Lane Johnson OT

     



    Thanks for the feedback MB

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsiefan. Show pumpsiefan's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Here's a BB special that would put me in the grave...

    they trade Mallet for a 2nd round pick and with their first take QB Matt Barkley.

    I still haven't gotten over the Wilson pick last year. I know BB is just plotting another way to show what a genius he is and what morons we all are.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    Here's a BB special that would put me in the grave...

    they trade Mallet for a 2nd round pick and with their first take QB Matt Barkley.

    I still haven't gotten over the Wilson pick last year. I know BB is just plotting another way to show what a genius he is and what morons we all are.




    What exactly would be the point of trading your current backup for a 2nd? And taking an overrated, mediocre QB in Matt Barkley in the 1st?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    ......


    The wild card is gauging BPA according to mainstream publications/perception (which can vary greatly) vs. BPA according to BB/NC. 

     




    Yup... Ranking the players is not a science and more art. information is imperfect. Different people can interpret the same information differenrly. a reach in one's eyes may be perfect valuation to another. 

    As to BPA... IMO, it's easy to use a pure BPA approach to the draft if you have many holes to fill and are still in the process of building a core for your team. Some teams are in a different situation. They may be one or two holes away from being in position to make a deep run in the playoffs. In that case, you're probably going to draft the best available who fits those holes. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    On the BPA question - I think some people think there is a clear BPA at any point in the draft as if the evaluation of college talent was an exact science. Add in that each team runs different offensive and defensive systems and the idea goes from funny to absurd.

    At a team level, certainly they create a heirarchy of talent on their board and if a player rated top ten is available when they are drafting in the second round it would be clear cut. But when drafting at 29 and presuming the top 20 talent has already gone, they probably have five or six players they consider as 'worthy of a late 1st round grade'. BB has talked about fielding trade offers and evaluating if moving back 5 places will allow them to still choose a player they would have taken at the original pick. If the answer is yes, then the trade is a no-brainer. If no, then the compensation becomes the kicker as to whether to make the trade.

    Later in the draft sometimes picks are clearly BPA. Mallet in the third round for example, Cannon and Dennard at the back end of drafts.

     
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